₦airaland Forum

Theconglomerate:
He earns around 24k a year.
Minus his rent,food,tax,money for olosho and tell me what will be left to finance a new toyota.
Any cleaner that drives a new toyota in the US either have supportive parents or sells drugs.
People weh dey drive 25 year old Ford bronco steady

If he lives economically it is very doable in 2 or 3 years. How long do u think it will take 100k naira earner to buy a new Toyota. Mind you, the 100k earner is probably a masters holder o.

Theconglomerate:
Devaluation would have been a shortcut in Nigeria's own case.
But since you all seem to be comfortable in it then let's keep waiting na

If we already had enough exports, low corruption, yeah, maybe.

Theconglomerate:
A cleaner will buy brand new toyota in the US in his dreams I guess.
You sure say you don go US so?
People that I know don't buy 15 years tokunbo.
I don't drive one so I wouldn't know about that statistic.

Come on, I said after saving for 15 years an average office worker can not buy a new toyota.

An average cleaner earns 24k USD a year. Howmuch is a new Toyota?

Theconglomerate:

Squandered indeed.
Who says Nigeria don't lack funds?
Go and look at what Nigeria needs to be sound infrastructure wise,get its value in hard currency and compare it to what Nigeria have made from oil so far and see for yourself.
Yes there has been looting,but it isn't the major reason Nigeria is still backwards.
We don't make enough money to keep 200m people afloat and take care of infrastructure too.

Even in the USA all their glorious development was not achieved in a year, it was compounded over several years. I bet you that no country can afford to move from a close to zero position to developed status.

Like I have pointed before with an example, you can start a business with a meager 20k and build it up to a multimillion naira business, obviously you won't be able to do that in one year.

Theconglomerate:
Money is not defined by nominal value but purchasing power.
That is why someone in Nigeria making 10m naira a year will live an equivalent lifestyle with some other guy making $60k a year in the U.S
A toyota sedan that cost $40k in the US might cost $100k in Singapore.
These are the reasons you shouldn't compare money by nominal value.
Classic mistake a lot of you keep making.

A Toyota sedan will be valued about the same anywhere in the world. A cleaner in the USA will comfortably buy a new toyota sedan after one or two years, while ur office worker will not be able to even after 15 years of savings. Why is tokunbo prevalent, like 95 percent of the market?

Theconglomerate:
Yes import is cheaper because they have infrastructure that we lack.
But what do you want us to do since it is taking eternity for us to have infrastructure?
Is it not better we devalue more and suffer the masses for 10 years than to wait till eternity and probably never have this infrastructure the west has?
Because if we keep subsidising fx to please the masses,we will never build that much funds needed to fix infrastructure.
Power alone would gulp $50B.
Now you see.

Yet again u miss the point. Our lack of infrastructure is not because we lack funds, rather, the monies that were supposed to be used to setup these infrastructure have been systematically squandered. Subjecting people to even more hardships will not make corruption and looting disappear.

Theconglomerate:
Would you compare corporate society of the 70s and that of today?
Asides 1004 and festac that were built by government,show me another estate built by private sector na.
But today you have real estate developers everywhere building and selling estates all over because there is the demand for it,not some beautification project.
All this people that are buying 18m naira flats,don't that yell you these are the Nigeria lower middle class buying these houses?
Where did they make the money from if not private corporate employment.

So you devalue ur currency to raise your middle class according to you, yet all other countries have middle class and upper class without devaluing their currency. Funny thing is in those countries their lower class, I mean an entry level worker, earns far more that your so called middle class. Oya continue na.

Theconglomerate:
A perfect case study of the damages an artificial naira can cause is the dissaperance of textile industry in Nigeria.
It is clear to everyone the damages smuggling can cause and the ineffectiveness of bans and high tariffs.

Does it occur to u that maybe you are not seeing the real issues?

Theconglomerate:
A perfect case study of the damages an artificial naira can cause is the dissaperance of textile industry in Nigeria.
It is clear to everyone the damages smuggling can cause and the ineffectiveness of bans and high tariffs.

My question to u is why is the imported version cheaper? Could it be that their is no sufficient power to run machinery and so the need to spend extra on fuel? Could it be that the necessary infrastructure to ease businesses are not available? I am pretty sure labour is cheaper in Nigeria.

Theconglomerate:
Why do you say it never worked?
There is now the existence of "corporate society" now in Nigeria because of what?
In the past,all the people having white collar jobs were civil servants(government employees).
Now a lot of these people are making a good living from private enterprise and you say it has not been working?
All those houses in Lekki where people are paying 3m rent and those mini duplex and giant estates they keep building,isn't it for the bubbling middle class,most of who are bankers,private firm employees,etc...
Is everyone close to you jobless that you say it has not been working?

There was no corporate society in the 70s and 80s, really? People were not building in the 50s and 60s abi?

Theconglomerate:
We have chips,minimie and all sorts of variety
Devaluation wouldn't make pringles disappear,no.
You will still see it in shopping marts,just more expensive.
So if one can't afford pringles,buy minimie na.
Person weh no chop pringles dey die?

Do u just argue for the sake of it? Since the 1980s, Naira has been devalued several times, are we better now? You argue that it is because it was done very slowly, so according to ur rants it all should have been done at a go, like 41900% in one go abi?

If we have done it several times in the past and it did not work out, why should it work today? Why? Are we now less corrupt than yesteryear? Are we smarter now? If you keep doing the same old stuff that never worked is that not dumb?

Theconglomerate:
Why do you say Nigeria has an unproductive workforce?
Also,why does a lot of you say Nigeria don't produce?
Can you tell me that thing we import that we don't have at home?
Asides fuel,complex electicals,machinery,some special medicine and automobiles.

Pringles for sure.

Theconglomerate:
I never said imports are bad or that I don't use them.
But we should stop subsidising imports at the expense of our future.
It's like eating your one week pocket allowance in a 2 days just because you want to eat and satisfy every craving you have,forgetting the future.
If you want to buy imported products,pay the real price for it.That's all.

You have got to open ur eyes and mind too, think a little deeper.

Even if Naira is devalued a hundred times over it will make no substantial difference.
Why is this so?

a.) Government mismanagement in the form of looting and corruption.

b.) Unproductive work force.

c.) Nepotism and Ethnicism.

d.) Weak analysis and vision in the form of misplaced priorities.

These are like dead weights, you will never be able to stand straight while strapped.

pluto09:
Some of what you highlighted here are reasons the country is where it is today.
Why I don't believe that devaluation will solve all our problems, I think it is wrong to ascribe devaluation to IMF and white people.
What options do we have when we don't produce anything that can be sold for us to earn dollars. Devaluation is an economic issue and not a sentimental one. It is not the west that made us to rely solely on oil for our fx earnings..
OBJ privatised refineries before he left but it was cancelled by his successor.
How much have we wasted on those refineries since then? And why are they still not working? Is it IMF that is not making it to work?

The same issues that plague our refineries also affects other government parastatals and the civil service in general. In the private sector most times "job security" depends on an individuals productivity - if you can't deliver you will get fired very fast.

Government needs to start firing people at will, right from the top down. If your section is not putting out results and you get warned a couple of times then you get fired irrespective of how long you have been at the job. This is the only way to incentivize a work force.

Theconglomerate:
Taxes?How do you tax a people that aren't employed and don't own taxable businesses?

State sponsored agriculture?
The government has been trying to make the 4 Nigeria refineries work since kingdom come and you want to add another very complicated parastatal to it?
Isn't that creating and breeding another corruption engine?

Education?
Are Nigerians not educated?
The government have subsidised education enough for anyone that wants to learn na.

Policies that are small business friendly?
Everyone knows Nigeria is a small business haven where they completely don't pay taxes and aren't disturbed by social industries such as price control and other rubbish organisations,so what's your point?
Make government dey dash them money I suppose

Credit?
Is government suppose to provide credit for it's citizens?
I thought that was done by banks already
You want banks to be giving credit to unworthy people because they want to grow the economy?
I got stanbic bank ezcash 4m naira credit while seated on my couch eating pringles.
Does credit worthy Nigerians lack credit?
Even in America,their government don't have any hand in giving credit to its citizens.

So this is how you want to take Nigeria out of misery and boost it's economy I suppose.

This is someone advocating for buy made in Nigeria, why don't you sit on that your couch and eat a bowl of garden eggs and oseoji, lol

Focusingmore:
Ok , you're clearly a child.keep amusing yourself.

Opinion is the lowest form of intelligence.

In relation to your uneducated under researched rant, I'll leave this here for you to ponder, since your brain is empty.

Is this post against or in favour of your original argument.

RabbiDoracle:
Post on 14th April 2020. How many bearish daily candles has bitcoin made?



Post on 26th April 2020. How many bearish butterflies have you seen?

Today is 7th June 2020.

And we are still waiting.

Lol, butterflies or dragonfly.

Godlylifeoneart:
Bra, this analysis cannot see the day.
Buhari would need to do one of the following in 2020 for zenith to retest N11. 00 and FCMB 0.97.
He will need to move all d Headquarters of banks to Katsina.
Move the two Lagos ports to the North
Hard locked down on Rivers and Delta state.
Then, the price of Zenith will touch sub N11. 00.
Failure to do dz, Zenith will trade at circa 14 to 20 for the rest of the year.

At 14 zenith dividend would be 17.8% on investment, I don't see selloff at that price expecially with the current low interest rates in the money markets and treasury bills. At 14 I will be buying it heavily, I will even terminate my sukuk bond.

meshpips:
Y'all need to understand that I take A+ setup ONLY.

All the other little moves inbetween do not really interest me.

When price comes to the supreme support or the penultimate support, I can buy.

Anything outside of those two levels I will never trade.

I understand what you are saying here, but how can you differentiate between a supreme support and penultimate support without considering time frame.

It is possible that both you an RabbiDoracle are correct, the current bull may take the market higher and maybe in the next 9 months start declining to your penultimate support.

Olaide1295:
China with over a trillion dollars reserves devalues from a position of strength to encourage local production and exportation.
Import duty is not the solution in a country with corrupt border personnel. Go to Seme and Idiroko, rice has started entering Nigeria again.
This will not happen if there is devaluation.
If Camry becomes 6M(even 20M), [b]people will forced to start buying Innosson. [/b]Innosson will expand production, create more jobs and start exporting to neighboring countries because he will earn forex.

If we don't devalue now, we will later devalue forcefully at a position of weakness like Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

Lol, do you know that if a brand new Innosson car was affordable most people will rather buy it than tokunbo. By the way, 90% of the parts of the Innosson vehicle are imported, meaning ...

ahiboilandgas:
u think people of this generation live that long ...if we reach 65 years let thank God ...must member of my family die within 63-78 ...

With improving medical services and good self care 90 is not unattainable.

ahiboilandgas:
...i mean i will be dead gone by 2060

You will be in ur 90s na

bbduty:
You are right. But let me remind you that China was not always an exporting nation. What they did was to copy some technology and adapt it to their needs, initially producing what the world saw as inferior quality products but it served their local demands, they were not importing and because the products were cheap, countries started importing from China. Over time many industries sprang up, their people became very much financial empowered, they improved their skills, technologies and infrastructure. Today they are a global force.
Lots of lesson to copy from them. We need to reduce our imports as much as possible to capital imports mainly, produce what we need domestically and empower our people.

You are missing the point again, what we need right now is development that is compounding over time no matter how small. This can be achieved by the government putting funds where they are most needed.

ojesymsym:
Our population should be a strength not a problem. Business that would flop in other states succeed in Lagos because of the high population of people there.

U too much.

ojesymsym:
That condition is for an export driven economy like China. We are still a consumer nation and will not achieve industrialization in one night.

Where the West is encouraging us to devalue our Naira, they keep accusing China of doing the same, you know why, because China will benefit more as an exporting nation. Our balance of trade still remains in the negative so taking that step head-on will be disastrous to a country that is already poor and not particularly known to be productive.

I couldn't have explained it better, you understand what is up very well.

In 1960 Chinas population was over 500 million, in 1981 poverty rate was 88%, by 2015 850 million Chinese were lifted out of poverty. How did they do it?

emmanuelewumi:
We are sitting on a keg of gun powder. Reason why population explosion should be tackled as soon as possible

Can the budget grow and accommodate the teeming population that is increasing at an alarming rate?

Our high population is actually an advantage, remember that China was once poor and overpopulated not long ago, but we can all see how they have turned it around.

emmanuelewumi:
The budget is meagre for our population that is $150 per capita and it will still be looted.

Our problem is fund and the huge poor population

I look at it as a continuum, if we have not been wasteful the budget would have been much higher by now.

For example, if a business has a capital of 20k today and it is properly managed in the next five years it is very likely capital will double. Budget should be growing over time. Even with this little $30b, going forward if managed and allocated properly we should be seeing serious changes in our society a few years from now.

Tobex4realTobex234:
Nigeria is a fucking broke nation dude.
Ghana with a population of 30m is budgeting $15bn,
Kenya with a population of 50 million is budgeting $30bn.
South Africa with a population of 60m is budgeting $100bn+

Nigeria with a population of 200m is budgeting $30bn +.

And this is me using countries in the same continent we pride ourselves as the giant.
I'm intentionally using these African countries because this is where we even get small mouth sef.
We ain't even the giant of West Africa. Nigeria is a broke shit hole, full of a large unproductive populace.

Let me say it again, Nigeria's problem is not funds. The government has been wasteful over the years. That $30bn you are seeing as small as it is will be mostly looted at various levels of governance.

Theconglomerate:
Can you name those many things that is imported that aren't or can't be produced in Nigeria?
In 2016,some people I know wanted to bring a tile adhesive company to Nigeria,my city sef.
Chinese imports were selling for N900 a 20kg bag and their calculations were already at 1400 a bag to be produced in Eleme,Rivers.
The only way they could beat this down to N1050 a bag was to increase capacity of the factory to be able to spit out up to 24,000 bags a day.
Now where will the average Nigerian industrialist get the capital or financing to build that kind of factory with such economies of scale from the get go?
Even if a person can borrow,he won't be too confident to do so as he is not sure of market share thereby abandoning the project.

If the CBN start saving all or most of the dollars it use to defend the naira,turning around the power situation of this country will only take 4years max.
I hope you know Nigeria only needs $50b to fix most of its power problems.
As for roads,devaluation will give the government enough naira to take care of it's local needs and still save a good chunk of dollars.

Economies of scale wouldn't matter so much as people with limited capital can still start production and be profitable.
Since import of raw material will be so expensive,this will breed local demand for raw material thereby boosting that segment too.

Devaluation will move Nigeria from consumerism to productivity.

The government can't build power stations because na dollar them dey use do am as most of its machinery will be imported,that is why they keep borrowing to fix power.
If it was a naira base expenditure,them for don do am since.
Now if you end that scheme that keeps finishing Nigeria dollars in the name of intervention,this should tell you that Nigeria will have enough dollar savings to fix power without borrowing at ridiculous interest rate.

Honestly artificially defending naira is simply a short term myopic investment to satisfy the needs of Nigeria elites and consumers.
If you want drive benz,pay the price for it and not have the CBN subsidise it for you at the expense of our youth's future.

I no say u no go give up, but I am ready for you today.

Almost every commodity is imported either as finished product or as inventory for further processing. The only things that are 100% Nigerian are food items.

If you think the reason Nigeria is underdeveloped is because of lack of funds then your are naive. I don't need to mention that there has been gross mismanagement of public funds which is still ongoing. If you don't know these things then you probably belong to that group they call indomie generation.

Theconglomerate:
You ignore the cry of the masses.
That cry and desperation is what is going to make them buy what Nigeria businesses is offering at lower prices.
Capitalism is not meant to favour everybody,Nigeria is not a socialist state.
People will figure it is better to export than import.
Lots of jobs will be created by this,giving more and more working people disposable income.
Medicine to most people is a one-off purchase,not an everyday consumer commodity so making reference to it is really shallow.
If coartem price rises today,people won't complain as much as if it were food because they only get to buy it once in a while.
So yes,people can very well live with inflation of prices of drugs caused by devaluation.Abi drugs na food
I don't remember calling myself an economist,the things I share are mostly from experience being an active tradesman.

My brother, you are wrong. Their is not a one to one matchup between imported goods and locally made goods. Their are many many things that are not made locally. You know na.

How will the poor masses figure out how to build power stations, roads and basic infrastructure which as it is now is not available?

Any government that devalues our currency any how will not last, we are not Venezuela or Zimbabwe. People will tear the government up. Already a lot of people are managing o.

Theconglomerate:
Now that subsidy and regulations have been removed,traffickers are now free to operate in Nigeria.
Even if fuel is sold for 200-250 naira a litre,they will still buy because of the current weak Naira.
You now see why I am advising this shithole to devalue their currency and own both west Africa and Central africa sub region.
Nigeria will prosper with weak naira but the elites that are benefiting from artificial strong naira don't want it.
They know all these but refuse to apply them for personal gains and emotional reasons.

You keep talking about devaluation, you are not seeing the bigger picture here.

Devaluation means my salary will be worth much less. What will you do when Labour wakes up and begins to demand for further increase in minimum wage?

What of the millions of retirees who depend on their small pension which now will not be able to buy their drugs and other things? I know a lot of them that have BP, diabetes, kidney condition? They should just die abi?

You forget that some many essential products are imported and cant be made in Nigeria, atleast not now, with poor power generation and all.

The government is supporting our currency and that is what it should be doing until we put our shit together.

Would you rather have severe hardship and backwardness so that you can build up huge USD deposits? What is the excess dollar account for if not to benefit its citizens?

Everybody claims to be an economist this days.