₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
I have a beef yet i have not insulted anyone till now. Hmmmmmmm are you really sincere?

WOW!

😲😲😲

MaxInDHouse why do you love LYING?

How can you LIE that you have never insulted anyone?

Have you forgotten that the internet never forgets?

Here is some proof of MaxInDHouse insulting other people on Nairaland:

MaxInDHouse:
Stupid churchgoer please shut up.
If you don't acknowledge Kumuyi, Oyedepo, Bakare and others that means you know nothing about CHRISTENDOM!

MaxInDHouse:
Guy your stupidity is undescribable!

If you don't know about Kumuyi the one whose teachings OP subscribe to then what exactly are you calling CHRISTENDOM?

MaxInDHouse:
You can only learn from a source or someone you trust (believe)
That's what makes you a FOOL!

MaxInDHouse:
FOOL!

Sonmvayina doesn't believe in damnation or judgement because to him all the prophets in the Bible are fictional characters so think before you judge!

MaxInDHouse:
[b]Sparrow just deliberately choose to be an old fool[/b]so even with all the evidences that's not hidden from anyone he still worship Papa like the deity his ancestors never had.

He is doing all these just to spite his JW brother he knew quite well that he's heading towards destruction but with billions who are hailing his Papa he preferred it that way than to repent and face facts!

MaxInDHouse:
[b]If you're not a fool[/b]can any court of law convict a person who uttered what Jesus said without using weapons against anyone?

There is plenty more from where that came from.

Evidence choke.

😅😅

Cc: tctrills, achorladey

Dtruthspeaker:
Do you real eyes that reports come from events generally so anyone can report their own version of event, so it is needful to have the ability to discern a truth from a lie?

Following this your logic, this is exactly why everything needs to be investigated - including the many stories in the Bible so that we can "discern a truth from a lie".

And do you real eyes that before Sumeria was formed people were already living there and events always occured but not all are recorded?

I know ignorance is bliss, but like I advised earlier, it is important to do some research and understand the facts before making specific statements.

I have never said EVERYTHING was recorded.

So far, archeologiats have found tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets with records that date back thousands of years before the Bible was ever written.

Many of the things we know today and practice, were first found in ancient Sumeria.

The base 10 number system we use today was gotten from there.

The 24 hour time system we use today was gotten from there.

See it now, whilst you still could not prove that the exodus did not happen, you have now shifted to Noah's flood.

I was only responding to this your statement:

Dtruthspeaker:
Do you not real eyes that all your presentations are based completely on hearsay? And even your presentation admits the fact that they are not absolutely certain as to the timing, so it is natural and conclusive that your results would be wrong.

You mad and crazed desperation makes you blind and ignorant of basic rules for determining Truth.

There is no need for any insult bro.

We are all on the same path in the search for truth.

If you insist that the Exodus really happened in the 13th century BCE, then prove it.

It is that simple.

If there is archaeological evidence to prove it really happened, then who am I to refute it?

It's just like saying that Jerusalem was not destroyed in 587 BCE when archeology has proved this on countless occasions - I can't refute that because the evidence is there.

Is this clear for you?

tctrills:
I am fully aware how MaxinDHouse operates.
But I am comfortable with him. I know I can't change his beliefs but I do this for the sake of others who are on the thread.
I would continue to spell out dishonesty and manmade teachings and doctrines.

You're doing a great job so far.

Bravo.

💪🏾💪🏾

Courz:
Hmm This video is even small compared to what she has revealed in her other videos in her channel. When Smurf girl revealed this same story about their fellow freemasons a.k.a Anointed JWs meeting in underground tunnels in Bethel Headquarters , people were calling her crazy not knowing that there are two other women apart from her who said the same thing. One of them also revealed what this Ugandan lady revealed although she didn't mention certain Satanic rituals like this lady mentioned. This Ugandan lady with no fear mentioned everything that was happening there. At least,we can now see that Smurf girl wasn't lying after all.

But Oteneaaron,you know that what this Ugandan lady revealed is not new. I have been watching testimonies from many people who have revealed the same thing. But people will call them crazy. They forget that Satan rules this world and these occultic activities do happen all the time. It is such a shame that Jehovah's witnesses are involved in this secretly but deceiving the public that they are Christians. Very sad. This kind of thing is happening in Uganda. What do you think would be happening at Igeduma? I have been told by someone that has worked there that they also have underground tunnels, built in such a way that nobody knows they exist.

You are right.

Makes you wonder - which god are these guys really worshipping?

🤔🤔

Dear tctrills,

Don't allow MaxInDHouse to gaslight you.

We know his modus operandi - evidence choke.

He only accuses others of exactly what he does.

Funny enough, this is exactly how the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses operates.

MaxInDHouse:
I love the highlighted!

So JWs are OK to continue worshiping the way we best understand shey?

Hope you won't start complaining when we preach in our neighbourhood just as Jesus commanded us after all you only need to say you're not interested and we will walk away but you don't have to start trailing us up and down simply because we don't share the same line of thought with you!

You can continue preaching your flip flop doctrines and we will continue to expose the many LIES your Governing Body and your religious organization.

Courz:
advocatejare, have you watched this video below? Jehovah's witnesses were mentioned here. In case you haven't, this video is from a Ugandan lady who is now a born again Christian but used to be a Sorceress . She exposes Satan's Kingdom and how vast his influence is in Entertainment, Politics, Religion especially Christianity, Big Business, e.t.c in her YouTube channel and the kind of operations she used to do for Satan. She mentioned in this video a particular JW Kingdom hall she attended in Uganda where they were having an underground Masonic lodge with Masonic Coven meeting filled with occultic activities of which she was invited to participate as a Sorceress. Start the video from timestamp 18:51.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRAWYeOobTM?si=dcE2FMCgzWRmk-vA

This video was scary.

She made a very heavy allegation against Jehovah's Witnesses.

Her story is similar to that of this lady on YouTube - Smurfgirl.

This is deep man.

Dtruthspeaker:
Or it was created to pervert the story of Abraham so that people like you can have a ground to lay your delusions

Don't speak out of ignorance bro.

The Sumerian Legend of Atrahasis was etched on clay tablets thousands of years before the story of Noah was ever written.

Sometimes, a little research helps you know.

Even the Abraham you speak about came from the city of Ur from Sumerian civilization in ancient Mesopotamia.

The story of Noah's flood is not original and this is a fact.

OK great.

Nothing as good as a peaceful death.

We will all die someday, so make sure you do to others what you would have them do to you.

achorladey:
loooool! He will say that is how intelligence he brags about works.

😁😁

KnownUnknown:
My favorite is the Noah story where they got the name Shem. They call themselves “Semitic” based on a bullshit story that the ancient Hebrews copied. Even crazier, the idea of semitism was originated in Germany. Lmao I just have to laugh at the amount of bullshit in this world of ours.

😁😁

Wait until they hear of the story of the Legend of Atrahasis aka Upnapishtim who is the original Noah from the ancient Sumeria.

The story of Noah is just a cheap copy of the Legend of Atrahasis.

KnownUnknown:
There is a concept called a Noble lie. Look it up.
Also, during the time these stories were written, it was fairly common for whole cities or certain leaders to be sent on exile by people who conquer them. The history of Mesopotamia and the levant has examples of these. So, it’s not farfetched to write such a story of being enslaved.

Also, the only thing vivid about those stories are the extraordinary bullshit they claim.
Hell, they couldn’t even name the Pharoah that allegedly drowned because the stuttering terrorist Moses pointed a magic stick at the Red Sea.

Very true.

Moreso, many of these stories are a copy, of a copy, of yet another copy that were based on stories recited from memory.

Makes you think about the game called telephone.

FxMasterz:
The area has not been completely excavated.

The Bible clearly stated that out of the 40 years spent in the wilderness, 38 of those years were spent in Kadesh-barnea.

Over 200 years of intense excavations have been done around this area of Kadesh-barnea, and yet no single archeological evidence has been found.

So what gives?

Diggings and more diggings are still ongoing. Findings could still be made in coming years.

By this your statement, are you admitting that since there have been no archeological findings made so far, then the Exodus story didn't happen?

So until a finding can be found, Exodus didn't really happen.

The Israelites painted vivid images of locations and events and even mentioned powerful nations and kings. The narratives are so detailed and full of activities that you could see clearly that they were not concocted.

It is quite obvious that you didn't read any of the information I shared above.

The main crux of the matter is the period the Exodus is supposed to happen.

The Exodus was supposed to have occurred in the late 13th century BCE (The Bronze Age), but many of the Kings and kingdoms mentioned, didn't even exist with that specific time period.

For example, the Bible states that the wandering Israelites were forced to do battle at the city of Heshbon, capital of Sihon, king of the Amorites, who tried to block the Israelites from passing in his territory on their way to Canaan (Numbers 21 : 21 – 25 ; Deuteronomy 2 : 24 – 35 ; Judges 11 : 19 – 21 ).

But excavations at Tel Hesban south of Amman, the location of ancient Heshbon, showed that there was no Late Bronze city, not even a small village there.

Another example - according to the Bible, when the children of Israel moved along the Transjordanian plateau they met and confronted resistance not only in Moab but also from the full-fledged states of Edom and Ammon.

But we now know that the plateau of Transjordan was very sparsely inhabited in the Late Bronze Age. In fact, most parts of this region, including Edom, which is mentioned as a state ruled by a king in the biblical narrative, were not even inhabited by a sedentary population at that time.

So basically, archaeology has shown us that there were no kings of Edom there for the Israelites to meet.

Of what value would it be for a people to concoct stories that they were once slaves somewhere? Of what value would it be for them to state that they were roaming a wilderness for 40yrs? What do you think they intended to achieve by telling such lies?

You tell me.

The main point of the issue is this - the Exodus is supposed to have happen the Bronze Age i.e late 13th century BCE, but archeological finds have showed that these events didn't happen at this particular time period.

Or have you forgotten that the old testament as found in the Bible is based on the Septuagaint, which are supposed to be written down sayings of stories of 70 Israelites who only recited these stories from memory?

Besides, they didn't write for the world. They wrote for themselves. To keep records of their own events. What would they gain by writing such lies for themselves? Archeology is still digging the place. These story is more than 4000 years old. How old is archeology itself?

These double standards will not work in this case.

Way older sites have been discovered by archaeologists.

Have you heard of Goblekli Tepe the 11,000 year old temple that was found in Turkey?

But like you said, new findings "could" still be found.

Until then, there is no archeological evidence that proves the Exodus occurred within time period of the 13th century BCE.

FxMasterz:
To do indepth research you need to go back in time and see what really happened for yourself.

All the so called archeological finds are the things the Egyptians wrote for themselves. The Israelites also have written for themselves. I have given you clues that may guide you in making comparative analysis of the conflicting stories. Now, the ball is in your court.

You seem to be the missing the point.

I understand your admission about the "Egyptians distorting history" although you provided no evidence to support this claim.

But there are still other issues at hand.

The Bible clearly states that the children of Isreal were stuck in the Sinai desert for 40 years.

Mind you, rain has not fallen in this desert for over 11,000 years, so archaeological evidences like clothes, dead bodies, pots etc should be well preserved.

So if millions of Israelites walked through this desert, why have archaeologists not found a single strand of evidence of these Isrealites even after digging around the desert for more than 200 years?

Can you please explain why?

LordReed:
Really? So why is there no archeological evidence for this 'honest' exodus?

That is very important question.

I honestly don't know why people feel threatened when these topics are explored.

Why can't we investigate into biblical history and chronology?

Or are they scared of what they might find out?

Even the Bible at 1 Thessalonians 5 VS 21 encourages everyone to - "Test all things..."

How can we "test all things.." when we don't take our time to do indepth research?

Makes you wonder.

🤔🤔

MaxInDHouse:
You never trust living evidence so there's no need giving you evidence!

Meanwhile your friend is already saying God's word is full of LIES while you are here saying God's organization is full of LIES.


https://www.nairaland.com/7935203/did-exodus-really-happen#127383695

If both of you don't believe in living evidence because you're interested in loopholes where exactly do you think the errors is, God's word, God's organization or you guys?

Hahahahahahaha

Kindly quote where I explicitly stated that the Bible is all LIES.

The question is simple, did the Exodus Really Happen?

If yes, can we use evidence from archeology to prove it?

This is a simple investigation into bibilical history and chronology.

It's just like saying, did the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses really prophesy that the world would be destroyed in 1914, 1925 and 1975?

If yes, can we use evidence from the history of the organization to prove it?

Obviously, in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, the answer is a bold YES.

The evidence is there for everyone to see.

Concerning the journey of the children of Isreal through the Sinai desert, here are some the points raised by the Authors:

1. Since according to the biblical account, the children of Israel wandered in the desert and mountains of the Sinai peninsula, moving around and camping in different places, for a full forty years.

Some archaeological traces of their generation-long wandering in the Sinai should be apparent.

2. However, except for the Egyptian forts along the northern coast, not a single campsite or sign of occupation from the time of Ramesses II and his immediate predecessors and successors has ever been identified in Sinai.

3. Repeated archaeological surveys in all regions of the peninsula, including the mountainous area around the traditional site of Mount Sinai, near Saint Catherine’s Monastery, have yielded only negative evidence: not even a single sherd, no structure, not a single house, no trace of an ancient encampment.

4. Even though modern archaeological techniques are quite capable of tracing even the very meager remains of hunter-gatherers and pastoral nomads all over the world.

There is simply no such evidence at the supposed time of the Exodus in the thirteenth century BCE.

5. The conclusion—that the Exodus did not happen at the time and in the manner described in the Bible—seems irrefutable when we examine the evidence at specific sites where the children of Israel were said to have camped for extended periods during their wandering in the desert ( Numbers 33 ) and where some archaeological indication—if present—would almost certainly be found.

Before I outline the new points covered so far, I would like to explain a few terms that have been repeated by the authors.

The Bronze Age and the Iron Age.

According to Wikipedia,

1. The Bronze Age is a historic period, lasting approximately from 3300 BC to 1200 BC, characterized by the use of bronze, the presence of writing in some areas, and other early features of urban civilization.

The Bronze Age is the second principal period of the three-age system proposed in 1836 by Christian Jürgensen Thomsen for classifying and studying ancient societies and history. It is also considered the second phase, of three, in the Metal Ages.

The Bronze Age is said to have ended with the Late Bronze Age collapse, a time of widespread societal collapse during the 12th century BC, between circa 1200 and 1150.

The collapse affected a large area of the Eastern Mediterranean (North Africa and Southeast Europe) and the Near East, in particular Egypt, eastern Libya, the Balkans, the Aegean, Anatolia, and the Caucasus.

It was sudden, violent, and culturally disruptive for many Bronze Age civilizations, and it brought a sharp economic decline to regional powers, notably ushering in the Greek Dark Ages.

2. The Iron Age is the final epoch of the three historical Metal Ages, after the Copper and Bronze Ages.

It has also been considered as the final Age of the three-age division starting with prehistory (before recorded history) and progressing to protohistory (before written history).

In this usage, it is preceded by the Stone Age (subdivided into the Paleolithic, Mesolithic and Neolithic) and Bronze Age.

These concepts originated in describing Iron Age Europe and the Ancient Near East, but they now include other parts of the Old World.

Although meteoritic iron has been used for millennia in many regions, the beginning of the Iron Age is locally defined around the world by archaeological convention when the production of smelted iron (especially steel tools and weapons) replaces their bronze equivalents in common use.

So what does this mean for the arguments laid out by the Authors?

Well, since most scholars have argued that the Exodus happened in the late part of the 13th century BCE, this means that it falls into the Bronze Age.

So if we are looking for archeological evidence to prove that Exodus really happened, we must look for this evidence around the same Bronze Age period.

I hope this is clear.

Now, we can move on to outlining the new points raised so far concerning the 40 year journey of the children of Isreal through the desert.

The same situation is evident eastward across the Jordan, where the wandering Israelites were forced to do battle at the city of Heshbon, capital of Sihon, king of the Amorites, who tried to block the Israelites from passing in his territory on their way to Canaan (Numbers 21 : 21 – 25 ; Deuteronomy 2 : 24 – 35 ; Judges 11 : 19 – 21 ).

Numbers 21:21 - 25

Israel sent messengers to say to Sihon king of the Amorites:

"Let us pass through your country. We will not turn aside into any field or vineyard, or drink water from any well. We will travel along the King’s Highway until we have passed through your territory."

But Sihon would not let Israel pass through his territory. He mustered his entire army and marched out into the wilderness against Israel. When he reached Jahaz, he fought with Israel.

Israel, however, put him to the sword and took over his land from the Arnon to the Jabbok, but only as far as the Ammonites, because their border was fortified.

Israel captured all the cities of the Amorites and occupied them, including Heshbon and all its surrounding settlements.

Excavations at Tel Hesban south of Amman, the location of ancient Heshbon, showed that there was no Late Bronze city, not even a small village there.

And there is more here.

According to the Bible, when the children of Israel moved along the Transjordanian plateau they met and confronted resistance not only in Moab but also from the full-fledged states of Edom and Ammon.

Yet we now know that the plateau of Transjordan was very sparsely inhabited in the Late Bronze Age.

In fact, most parts of this region, including Edom, which is mentioned as a state ruled by a king in the biblical narrative, were not even inhabited by a sedentary population at that time.

To put it simply, archaeology has shown us that there were no kings of Edom there for the Israelites to meet.

The pattern should have become clear by now.

Sites mentioned in the Exodus narrative are real.

A few were well known and apparently occupied in much earlier periods and much later periods—after the kingdom of Judah was established, when the text of the biblical narrative was set down in writing for the first time.

Unfortunately for those seeking a historical Exodus, they were unoccupied precisely at the time they reportedly played a role in the events of the wandering of the children of Israel in the wilderness.

And what of other settlements and peoples mentioned in the account of the Israelites’ wanderings?

The biblical narrative recounts how the Canaanite king of Arad, “who dwelt in the Negeb,” attacked the Israelites and took some of them captive—enraging them to the point that they appealed for divine assistance to destroy all the Canaanite cities (Numbers 21 : 1 – 3 ).

Numbers 21:1 - 3

When the Canaanite king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel was coming along the road to Atharim, he attacked the Israelites and captured some of them.

Then Israel made this vow to the LORD: "If you will deliver these people into our hands, we will totally destroy their cities."

The LORD listened to Israel’s plea and gave the Canaanites over to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns; so the place was named Hormah.

Almost twenty years of intensive excavations at the site of Tel Arad east of Beersheba have revealed remains of a great Early Bronze Age city, about twenty-five acres in size, and an Iron Age fort, but no remains whatsoever from the Late Bronze Age, when the place was apparently deserted.

The same holds true for the entire Beersheba valley. Arad simply did not exist in the Late Bronze Age.

The conclusion—that the Exodus did not happen at the time and in the manner described in the Bible—seems irrefutable when we examine the evidence at specific sites where the children of Israel were said to have camped for extended periods during their wandering in the desert ( Numbers 33 ) and where some archaeological indication—if present—would almost certainly be found. According to the biblical narrative, the children of Israel camped at Kadesh-barnea for thirty eight of the forty years of the wanderings.

The general location of this place is clear from the description of the southern border of the land of Israel in Numbers 34 .

It has been identified by archaeologists with the large and well-watered oasis of Ein el-Qudeirat in eastern Sinai, on the border between modern Israel and Egypt.

The name Kadesh was probably preserved over the centuries in the name of a nearby smaller spring called Ein Qadis.

A small mound with the remains of a Late Iron Age fort stands at the center of this oasis.

Yet repeated excavations and surveys throughout the entire area have not provided even the slightest evidence for activity in the Late Bronze Age, not even a single sherd left by a tiny fleeing band of frightened refugees.

Ezion-geber is another place reported to be a camping place of the children of Israel.

Its mention in other places in the Bible as a later port town on the northern tip of the Gulf of Aqaba has led to its identification by archaeologists at a mound located on the modern border between Israel and Jordan, halfway between the towns of Eilat and Aqaba.

Excavations here in the years 1938 – 1940 revealed impressive Late Iron Age remains, but no trace whatsoever of Late Bronze occupation.

From the long list of encampments in the wilderness, Kadesh-barnea and Ezion-geber are the only ones that can safely be identified, yet they revealed no trace of the wandering Israelites.

Phantom Wanderers?

According to the biblical account, the children of Israel wandered in the desert and mountains of the Sinai peninsula, moving around and camping in different places, for a full forty years.

Even if the number of fleeing Israelites (given in the text as six hundred thousand) is wildly exaggerated or can be interpreted as representing smaller units of people, the text describes the survival of a great number of people under the most challenging conditions.

Some archaeological traces of their generation-long wandering in the Sinai should be apparent.

However, except for the Egyptian forts along the northern coast, not a single campsite or sign of occupation from the time of Ramesses II and his immediate predecessors and successors has ever been identified in Sinai.

And it has not been for lack of trying.

Repeated archaeological surveys in all regions of the peninsula, including the mountainous area around the traditional site of Mount Sinai, near Saint Catherine’s Monastery, have yielded only negative evidence: not even a single sherd, no structure, not a single house, no trace of an ancient encampment.

One may argue that a relatively small band of wandering Israelites cannot be expected to leave material remains behind.

But modern archaeological techniques are quite capable of tracing even the very meager remains of hunter-gatherers and pastoral nomads all over the world.

Indeed, the archaeological record from the Sinai peninsula discloses evidence for pastoral activity in such eras as the third millennium BCE and the Hellenistic and Byzantine periods.

There is simply no such evidence at the supposed time of the Exodus in the thirteenth century BCE.

See the map below showing the Sinai Peninsula, showing main places mentioned in the Exodus story.

At this point, the authors have argued that it is impossible for a large group of Israelites to flee Egypt through the border forts at Pithom, Succoth and Midgol because the Egyptians had these forts fortified with soldiers.

Plus they also mentioned that there were no single records mentioning the Israelites living in Goshen which is in direct contradiction to what we see mentioned in the books of Exodus.

The only remaining option is exploring how the Israelites were able to travel through the desert for 40 solid years.

Let's us continue!

Still on the points raised so far:

1. Most scholars have argued that the Exodus must have occurred in the thirteenth century BCE.

2. The earliest mention of Israel in an extrabiblical text was found in Egypt in the stele describing the campaign of Pharaoh Merneptah—the son of Ramesses II—in Canaan at the very end of the thirteenth century BCE.

3. There is no recognizable archaeological evidence of Israelite presence in Egypt immediately before the the 13th century BCE.

4. The expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt in 1570 BCE ushered in a period when the Egyptians became extremely wary of incursions into their lands by outsiders.

5. Because of this, the Egyptians tightened their control over the flow of immigrants from Canaan into the delta.

They established a system of forts along the delta’s eastern border and manned them with garrison troops and administrators.

6. A late thirteenth century papyrus records how closely the commanders of the forts monitored the movements of foreigners: “We have completed the entry of the tribes of the Edomite Shasu [i.e., bedouin] through the fortress of Merneptah-Content-with-Truth, which is in Tjkw, to the pools of Pr-Itm which [are] in Tjkw for the sustenance of their flocks.”

7. In Hebrew, Tjkw corresponds to Succoth and Pr-Itm corresponds to Pithom.

8. So that means the border between Canaan and Egypt was thus closely controlled.

9. So if a great mass of fleeing Israelites had passed through the border fortifications of the pharaonic regime, a record should exist.

10. Yet in the abundant Egyptian sources describing the time of the New Kingdom in general and the thirteenth century in particular, there is no reference to the Israelites, not even a single clue.

11. We know of nomadic groups from Edom who entered Egypt from the desert.

12. The Merneptah stele refers to Israel as a group of people already living in Canaan.

13. But yet we have no clue, not even a single word, about early Israelites in Egypt: neither in monumental inscriptions on walls of temples, nor in tomb inscriptions, nor in papyri.

14. Israel is absent—as a possible foe of Egypt, as a friend, or as an enslaved nation.

15. There are simply no finds in Egypt that can be directly associated with the notion of a distinct foreign ethnic group (as opposed to a concentration of migrant workers from many places) living in a distinct area of the eastern delta, as implied by the biblical account of the children of Israel living together in the Land of Goshen (Genesis 47:27).

16. the escape of more than a tiny group from Egyptian control at the time of Ramesses II seems highly unlikely, as is the crossing of the desert and entry into Canaan.

17. In the thirteenth century, Egypt was at the peak of its authority—the dominant power in the world.

18. The annals of the great Egyptian conqueror Thutmose III tell us that he marched with his troops from the eastern delta to Gaza, a distance of about 250 kilometers, in ten days.

19. A relief from the days of Ramesses II’s father, Pharaoh Seti I (from around 1300 BCE ), shows the forts and water reservoirs in the form of an early map that traces the route from the eastern delta to the southwestern border of Canaan.

20. The remains of these forts were uncovered in the course of archaeological
investigations in northern Sinai by Eliezer Oren of Ben-Gurion University, in the 1970s.

Oren discovered that each of these road stations, closely corresponding to the sites designated on the ancient Egyptian relief, comprised three elements: a strong fort made of bricks in the typical Egyptian military architecture, storage installations for food provisions, and a water reservoir.

21. Putting aside the possibility of divinely inspired miracles, one can hardly accept the idea of a flight of a large group of slaves from Egypt through the heavily guarded border fortifications into the desert and then into Canaan in the time of such a formidable Egyptian presence.

22. Any group escaping Egypt against the will of the pharaoh would have easily been tracked down not only by an Egyptian army chasing it from the delta but also by the Egyptian soldiers in the forts in northern Sinai and in Canaan.

FxMasterz:
One thing is clear about the historical records of most nations in antiquity. They write only good things about themselves. You'll never see them write about their defeats in battle or their enslavement to another nation, the despicable manners of their kings or the failures of their gods. They're always conquering and never being defeated, living as lords over other nations and recording only good and favourable events in the making of their nationhood. We all know that this can only be far from the truth. Egypt's Pharaoh pursued the Israelites into the red sea and perished there but they'll narrate the events to rather show might and conquests. They actually distort their own histories to brush their national ego. All the nations are like that. No one ever gets defeated in battle except their enemies. Should anyone believe such reports? They're always one sided and narcissistic in tone.

Can the same be said of Israel? Israel has its recorded history as the Old Testaments in the Bible. They didn't write it for religious purposes initially, they were just honestly penning down their records for the coming generations of their children. They record their own failings, their own defeats, the misbehaviours of their kings, the fall of their own nation, even their enslavement and exiles by foreign powers. You'll read balanced records that do not prioritize self praise or national egoism.

So, when contrasting records made by a nation with whom Israel has some ancient involvements, whose records would you believe? I leave it to the reader to judge.

Interesting.

You have raised some solid points here, but I am not done yet.

There are still some other points to this argument that I would still like to here your thoughts on.

Thanks.

Before I continue, it would be important for us outline the key points raised so far in this argument.

Recall that we are trying to find out if the Exodus as recorded in the Bible really happened.

Here are some of the points raised so far:

1. There is good reason to believe that in times of famine in Canaan—just as the biblical narrative describes—pastoralists and farmers alike would go to Egypt to settle in the eastern delta and enjoy its dependable fertility.

2. In the 3rd century BCE, Egyptian historian Manetho described a massive, brutal invasion of Egypt by foreigners from the east, whom he called Hyksos, an enigmatic Greek form of an Egyptian word that he translated as “shepherd kings” but that actually means “rulers of foreign lands.”

Manetho reported that the Hyksos established themselves in the delta at a city named Avaris.

3. Far more trustworthy is an Egyptian source of the sixteenth century BCE that recounts the exploits of Pharaoh Ahmose, of the Eighteenth Dynasty, who sacked Avaris and chased the remnants of the Hyksos to their main citadel in southern Canaan—Sharuhen, near Gaza—which he stormed after a long siege.

4. When trying to date of the age of the patriarchs, 1 Kings 6:1 tells us that the start of the construction of the Temple in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign took place 480 years after the Exodus.

5. According to a correlation of the regnal dates of Israelite kings with outside Egyptian and Assyrian sources, this would roughly place the Exodus in 1440 BCE.

That is more than a hundred years after the date of the Egyptian expulsion of the Hyksos, around 1570 BCE.

6. The Bible speaks explicitly about the forced labor projects of the children of Israel and mentions, in particular, the construction of the city of Raamses (Exodus 1:11).

7. But the first pharaoh named Ramesses came to the throne only in 1320 BCE — more than a century after the traditional biblical date.

Putting aside the possibility of divinely inspired miracles, one can hardly accept the idea of a flight of a large group of slaves from Egypt through the heavily guarded border fortifications into the desert and then into Canaan in the time of such a formidable Egyptian presence.

Any group escaping Egypt against the will of the pharaoh would have easily been tracked down not only by an Egyptian army chasing it from the delta but also by the Egyptian soldiers in the forts in northern Sinai and in Canaan.

Indeed, the biblical narrative hints at the danger of attempting to flee by the coastal route.

Thus the only alternative would be to turn into the desolate wastes of the Sinai peninsula.

But the possibility of a large group of people wandering in the Sinai peninsula is also contradicted by archaeology.

See the image below showing a relief from the time of Pharaoh Seti I (ca.1300 BCE). Engraved on a wall in the temple of Amun at Karnak, the relief depicts the international road from Egypt to Canaan along the northern coast of the Sinai Peninsula. Egyptian forts with water reservoirs are designated in the lower register.

A sophisticated system of Egyptian forts, granaries, and wells was established at a day’s march distance along the entire length of the road, which was called the Ways of Horus.

These road stations enabled the imperial army to cross the Sinai peninsula conveniently and efficiently when necessary.

The annals of the great Egyptian conqueror Thutmose III tell us that he marched with his troops from the eastern delta to Gaza, a distance of about 250 kilometers, in ten days.

A relief from the days of Ramesses II’s father, Pharaoh Seti I (from around 1300 BCE ), shows the forts and water reservoirs in the form of an early map that traces the route from the eastern delta to the southwestern border of Canaan.

The remains of these forts were uncovered in the course of archaeological
investigations in northern Sinai by Eliezer Oren of Ben-Gurion University, in the 1970s.

Oren discovered that each of these road stations, closely corresponding to the sites designated on the ancient Egyptian relief, comprised three elements: a strong fort made of bricks in the typical Egyptian military architecture, storage installations for food provisions, and a water reservoir.

There is something more: the escape of more than a tiny group from Egyptian control at the time of Ramesses II seems highly unlikely, as is the crossing of the desert and entry into Canaan.

In the thirteenth century, Egypt was at the peak of its authority—the dominant power in the world.

The Egyptian grip over Canaan was firm; Egyptian strongholds were built in various places in the country, and Egyptian officials administered the affairs of the region.

In the el-Amarna letters, which are dated a century before, we are told that a unit of fifty Egyptian soldiers was big enough to pacify unrest in Canaan.

And throughout the period of the New Kingdom, large Egyptian armies marched through Canaan to the north, as far as the Euphrates in Syria.

Therefore, the main overland road that went from the delta along the coast of northern Sinai to Gaza and then into the heart of Canaan was of utmost importance to the pharaonic regime

The most potentially vulnerable stretch of the road—which crossed the arid and dangerous desert of northern Sinai between the delta and Gaza— was the most protected.

The border between Canaan and Egypt was thus closely controlled.

If a great mass of fleeing Israelites had passed through the border fortifications of the pharaonic regime, a record should exist.

Yet in the abundant Egyptian sources describing the time of the New Kingdom in general and the thirteenth century in particular, there is no reference to the Israelites, not even a single clue.

We know of nomadic groups from Edom who entered Egypt from the desert.

The Merneptah stele refers to Israel as a group of people already living in Canaan.

But we have no clue, not even a single word, about early Israelites in Egypt: neither in monumental inscriptions on walls of temples, nor in tomb inscriptions, nor in papyri.

Israel is absent—as a possible foe of Egypt, as a friend, or as an enslaved nation.

And there are simply no finds in Egypt that can be directly associated with the notion of a distinct foreign ethnic group (as opposed to a concentration of migrant workers from many places) living in a distinct area of the eastern delta, as implied by the biblical account of the children of Israel living together in the Land of Goshen (Genesis 47:27).

Genesis 47:27 - Now the Israelites settled in Egypt in the region of Goshen. They acquired property there and were fruitful and increased greatly in number.

A late thirteenth century papyrus records how closely the commanders of the forts monitored the movements of foreigners: “We have completed the entry of the tribes of the Edomite Shasu [i.e., bedouin] through the fortress of Merneptah-Content-with-Truth, which is in Tjkw, to the pools of Pr-Itm which [are] in Tjkw for the sustenance of their flocks.”

This report is interesting in another connection: it names two of the most important sites mentioned in the Bible in connection with the Exodus.

Succoth is probably the Hebrew form of the Egyptian Tjkw, a name referring to a place or an area in the eastern delta that appears in the Egyptian texts from the days of the Nineteenth Dynasty, the dynasty of Ramesses II.

Exodus 12:37 - The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Sukkoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children.

Numbers 33:5 - The Israelites left Rameses and camped at Sukkoth.

Pithom is the Hebrew form of Pr-Itm —“House [i.e., Temple] of the God Atum.” This name appears for the first time in the days of the New Kingdom in Egypt.

Exodus 1:11 - So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.

Indeed, two more place-names that appear in the Exodus narrative seem to fit the reality of the eastern delta in the time of the New Kingdom.

The first, which we have already mentioned above, is the city called Raamses—Pi-Ramesses, or “The House of Ramesses,” in Egyptian.

This city was built in the thirteenth century as the capital of Ramesses II in the eastern delta, very close to the ruins of Avaris.

Hard work in brick making, as described in the biblical account, was a common phenomenon in Egypt, and an Egyptian tomb painting from the fifteenth century BCE portrays this specialized building trade in detail.

Finally, the name Migdol, which appears in the Exodus account (Exodus 14 : 2 ), is a common name in the New Kingdom for Egyptian forts on the eastern border of the delta and along the international road from Egypt to Canaan in northern Sinai.

Exodus 14:2 - "Tell the Israelites to turn back and encamp near Pi Hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea. They are to encamp by the sea, directly opposite Baal Zephon.

See the map below showing the locations of Succoth, Pithom and Migdol.