₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus:
it is not just convenient for me it is the Truth.


there were no Protestants until the 16 th century but we all have writing from the disciples of the apostles all saying that the Church is the Catholic Church.

it wasn't just the Roman church that became the Catholic Church, it was every authentic Christian Church all over the world, from Antioch to Alexandria, to France, from east to West.

even before Constantine those city Church were part of the Catholic Church.

I don't expect any less from a follower of the Pope. There everyone was a Catholic before reformation, how come the Roman Church killed so many souls just for owing a copy of the Bible?
I was expecting you to quote the verse where any apostle recognised and mentioned Catholic Church in the scripture. You might want to check the book of revelation on 7 churches mentioned for you to know that the 7 churches are not Catholic Churches. Churches in the early times are different with different doctrines from Catholic. You have to provide an evidence if you think otherwise, not just make wild statements.

btoks:
On your last point , I'll like you to read part of the letter written in AD 180 by Church father (Bishop of Lyon) Irenaeus . See link
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm

Please see excerpt:
Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally knownChurch founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.


He goes on to list the 12 Bishops of Rome(pope) to his time after Peter.

He also talked about Clement (pope ca 100AD) intervening in the Corinthian church .
So church of Rome didn't just gain preeminence after Constantine in the 4th Century. There are other examples as well.

Regarding your first point even Christianity wasn't named so at the very beginning, names change. We do know that Ignatius of Antioch refers to the genuine church as catholic ca 110AD to distinguish it from the heretical groups of the day.And one visible way to know this church was to look at the succession of bishops from the Apostles.

Try reading up on witnesses during the time , not all christian history is recorded in the bible.

There is little point in claiming that a certain church or doctrine came down from the days of the Apostles. Sin came down from the days of the Apostles, and the devil also was active at that time and before. It's not so much what came down from the days of the Apostles, as what came down from the Apostles. Even in his days, apostle Paul wrote : 'The iniquity doth already work.'
The present can never be properly understood without correct information concerning the past. Those who have been taught falsified history or who have had their minds filled with twisted interpretations of events gone by, stagger like the blind with a darkened mind.
No, the evidence is very clear that, during the first century and the first half of the second, the two main Christian centers were Antioch, in Syria (between the Syrian population centers around Damascus and the Cilician province), and Alexandria. Later claims that Rome or Jerusalem ( founding-place of Christianity) were important early centers of Christianity, are later interpolations.
The Roman Church grew out of the orthodox Christian movement. A rigid hierarchy was built, with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, at the top, controlling doctrine. It grew into a vast juggernaut, however, and as is the nature of large bloated bureaucracies that outlast their usefulness, the Church grew cotruly ( this was due to the romance of the church with the Roman state power. We all know that Pope inherited the powers of Roman emperors together with their titles)
In the 11th century, the entire eastern Church broke away from Rome.
The Armenia church have been alone all along. So whenever someone is telling you that the Catholic Church is the first and the only church before the reformation, you know what to tell them.

petra1:
We are not tithing based on mosaic law . We tithe because it's it's a spiritual principle . Just like offering

You're quoting Mosaic laws here Brother, check again. If you're talking about the tithe of Abraham, well, that's a voluntary giving, not an obligation. I'm not against Christian giving ( which may even be higher your 10%), what I'm against is Pastors making it seem as if paying is the passport to heaven

There is no point here. Nowadays Pastors aren't Levites by any standard. These are the same Pastors that would be quick to say the old covenant is not binding on Christians today when it comes to Saturday being the real Sabbath day and in some other instances, yet they quote scriptures from this same covenant to prove to people that we should give them tithes. Sorry to burst your lies, this old covenant you're quoting from is the same handwriting of ordinance that Apostle Paul said was nailed to the cross.

Ubenedictus:
did you live from the 2nd century to about the 10th century? sorry you are not an early Christian, you are a Protestant, you group began in the 16th century by a ex Catholic priest.


correction

tertullian in case you don't know is a Catholic theologian... he was naming how far the Church had spread in the world...he wasn't talking about a different denomination.

if you want me to show you that he was Catholic just ask.

It's convenient for you to call Churches in the first century, Catholic (just same way Mohammed called all biblical prophets, Moslems) even when we both know there was no Catholic Church at that time. What we had was Roman Church which metamorphosise into the Catholic Church. Sorry to burst your bubble, all those churches ain't Roman or Catholic by any standard. They are as different as their name implies. It was during the reign of Constantine, through the marriage of the Catholic church and Roman state, that all other churches were being coerced to be a subject of the Roman church.

Akin1212:
Either way, isn't it ironic? But it would have been reasonable if God had cut off the finger that sinned instead of allowing Man to suffer for it. Don't you think so? Any ruler who punishes rebels is not a tyrant. Or not so?

Man is suffering because of his disobedience to God. He already knew the consequency of his action (Gen. 2:17b). Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven. They know they have a short time before their imminent destruction (Rev. 20:10).

Are you saying other animals don't have free will? Think about that again, please.

We both know the fact that humans are brimming with unique traits that do not fit the animal mold: love, conscience, creativity, awareness of time, mercy, concern for the future, the ability to accumulate knowledge over generations and so on. The Bible says that we are created in the image of God. You wonder why we have far more complex brains than any animal? We are intelligent. We are built for a higher purpose. Individuals don't think or act alike under the same circumstance. That's free will at work. Animals don't have all these. They have been programed to do same things, same ways for all ages and it will remain so.

Destroy means to eliminate, but that's not the case, is it?

The fate of satan and his works was sealed the day Jesus completed the work of human salvation.

Satan was created perfect, yeah we've all heard that before. But see this - Can what God creates go bad?

The perfect nature of the universe and everything there in is a testimony to the perfect nature of God. Man and the Angels are the only examples of the creatures of God gone bad and they have one thing in common.

Did God know this before it happened? If it's a flaw, that means God is not perfect. Yeah?

We know what is right, but make our choices independent of God. But whatever choice we decide to make will not change how He wants things to be. God knows the thoughts of our minds, so He knows what we happen just before we act. Except events that has been predetermined by God Himself, He doesn't know what choice we'll make until we start conceiving the idea. No flaw here. He created us and give us the gift of free will. It doesn't matter what we do with, He'll achieve the purpose. A time is coming, when satan, his angels, sin and death will be no more. A time when everything destroying our relationship with God will be no more. Then, everyone on God's side will live forever in complete obedience and loyalty to Him. He will make all things new. This is His ultimate goal.

Akin1212:
Thank you, you just described a God who is a Tyrant, a gambler, a God who can't see tomorrow, a God who will allow evil to happen for whatever reason, a God who wasn't sure of his hand works.

Isn't it ironic calling God a Tyrant seeing what you wish He had done to satan for his rebellion? I bet you know what a typical Tyrant would do to rebels. For the rest of your points up there, yea, it's ok for you to blame God for the gift of free will choice...he never had issues with other animals/living creatures.

Why then did he send Jesus?

It was recorded in the Bible that God sent Jesus to destroy the work of satan(ie, sin). The true intent of satan, no doubt, had been made manifest even before the coming of Jesus.

God created heavenly creatures to love him, why did Satan not love him? Would you say there was a flaw?

Satan was created perfect (Ezekiel 28:13-15). He once loved God,but then, he has free will. Call that a flaw if you want

Ubenedictus:
give examples of these true believers, is that so hard?

I'm one of them. Gospel truth has always survived through the ages, and it will, till the end. You asked if there are others churches aside catholic church (if there was anything like it in the first century) after the days of the Apostles, the man I quoted gave you more than a dozen other churches in different places, having nothing to do with the roman church.

If God was to destroy Satan the moment he sinned, what would go through the minds of all the other angels? Fear would enter into their hearts right? And then they would end up serving God out of fear rather than love, which would destroy the very reason that God created heavenly beings and humans in the first place. And not only that, the universe could also be in a permanent cycle of sin and destruction. Someone sins, God destroys them, someone else sins and God destroys them. Then there wouldn't be an understanding of what sin is and why God is destroying those who sin. And the universe would never be a place of harmony and peace again. Also, Satan sucessfully caused a third of all God's angels to rebel and join him. Which means Satan was able to cast doubts in the minds of the angels. So if God just destroyed Satan and the angels who followed him, then the angels who didn't join with Satan could forever be left with doubts in their minds. And even if God just destroyed all of His creation and started again, there would be no guarantee that it wouldn't happen again. So God Had to have a plan to rid the universe of sin FOREVER.
First, God HAD to let Satan's rebellion take it's full course, so that the universe could see the wicked nature of Satan's plans. Until fully developed, Satan's rebellion would not appear the evil thing that it was. Second, God HAS to let sin and destruction (suffering) continue in this world in order for the RESULT of sin to be seen by all. And by seeing the result and utter suffering because of sin, it will stop sin and rebellion from rising up a second time.

Ubenedictus:
this is the question I asked you... stop dodging

you believe the Church continued after the apostles
died and this church isn't the Catholic Church.
please give me a few names of those none Catholic
Christians from the 2nd century to the 10th century

...so, as you can see, there are many Churches besides the church of Rome. And even when the Roman Church went on killing spree and persecution of believers who would not agree with their church traditions, the true believers who keep the commandments of God, and the have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev. 12:17) scattered all over the face of the earth exist.

Ubenedictus:
this is the question I asked you... stop dodging

you believe the Church continued after the apostles
died and this church isn't the Catholic Church.
please give me a few names of those none Catholic
Christians from the 2nd century to the 10th century

This quote written by Tertullian about 75years after the death of Apostle John should tell you the spread of the church of Christ after the Apostles: "For upon whom else have the universal nations believed, but upon the Christ who has already come? For whom have the nations believed- Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and they that inhabit Mesopotamia, Armamia, Phrygia, Cappadocia, and they who dwell in Pontus, and Asia, Pamphylia,...all the limits of of the Spains, the diverse nations of the Gauls, and the haunts of the Britains (inaccessible to the Romans, but subjugated to Christ)... In all which places the name of the Christ who is already come reigns." There're only 2 Churches: Rev. 12:6,14 and Rev.17

bloodofthelamb:
It is fruitless arguing with you, because you have chosen to believe a lie.. John1:- In the beginning was the Word and Word was with God and the Word was God. 2peter1vs1 says: from simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ --- To those who through the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ have been been given a faith as precious as ours.

That verse you quoted in John 1. It's something like this: In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (The Father) and the Word was God (Jesus Christ). I am a Human, and I have a Son. My Son is not me, because there is only one of me. But he is human, just like me. The same is true of Jesus Christ. He is not the Father, The One True God. But because Jesus' Father is God, then Jesus is also God, just like my Son is also human like me. It is natural for Fathers to exist before their Sons.

Akin1212:
Lol, deal with it bro, I'm done typing to you and quoting you. But you made another error here, English is a proper noun, always endure to type its first letter in Capitals. Yeah, I measure longer bro, farther than close. Just deal with it in any way you can. You can cry over it, that's one way.

You're still not saying anything new here. And yes, I decided not to follow the rule because I was busy. At the end of the day, English is still english right? But you, Mr. Know All, it's a shame you enjoy calling people "sheeps". Let's not forget why you're here. To attack people and call them all sort of names because of their belief (this is exactly what terrorists do with bombs). First, you don't know the correct number of years that makes a generation (so much for being intelligent). Secondly, on Matthew 24:34, it turns out that you're the ignorant and uninformed one. You still don't know jack about what you're up against. Cure your ignorance first.

Akin1212:
As a talk and do person, I will show you your errors. I will start from this post I just quoted.

I guess in your village, you people spell arrogance as arogance, your stupidity is really legendary.

Wake up is spelled with spacing between wake and up, but again what do you know?

In the screenshot below, you will see more of your errors, let me now address your legendary stupidity a bit.
The first picture shows how unintelligent you are. the statement should have been "Don't we all have beliefs? Looks like we are all sheeps to someone" But then, your foolery extends to your understanding of concord.

So in your backward mind, there is anything like 'sheeps' in english? And I don't think that's a 'typo', is it? Like I said earlier, making childish and unconfirmed claims here won't change your fortune. I won't engage in a d*ck-measuring contest, but trust me, you don't measure up to anything close.

OtemSapien:
He's not actually obsessed with it, rather, he is hammering on the flaws of it so that minds could be freed. Do you think our ancestors got converted the first day they got preached to?

Looking for flaws where there is none. The guy is not even intelligent enough to know his right from left. If he's as intelligent as he claims to be, he should have known that in Matthew 24:34, for instance, the greek word 'genea' translated as 'generation' in english primarily means 'race of people' and not necessarily 30-33years span. A free mind should know such glaring detail. Not everybody follows a religion blindly or because we are born into it. For me, I don't believe the God I serve will burn sinners in hellfire for eternity just for a short life of sin. Even the most popular Bible verse, John 3:16, made it clear that sinners will perish (die). This is consistent with the Bible verse that says 'the wages of sin is death' and that that says 'the soul that sins shall die.

Akin1212:
What is your basis for the claim of the facts that I don't live a fulfilled life already? Lol, I am not intelligent enough to write a two-page article? Says someone whose 100 words post on Nairaland is full of errors. Take a stroll to my blog and see what your whole generations cannot pen down written by an intelligent mind. Be careful where you stand bro, it may on the catalyst of your demise.

Show me the errors or remain silent forever. You have a blog? Seeing the level of ignorance you display here, I pity your readers. I wonder where the arogance of the so-called "free-thinkers" emanates from. You're Struggling to make it, but friend, attacking anything called God will not make it any easier for you...and saying you've done what my whole generation can not do (to make yourself feel better, of course) won't change your fortune. You're still grossly ignorant and unintelligent. Wakeup from you delusion.

Akin1212:
The most relevant piece among the sheeps, why am I not surprised?

I can't write one because my aim is not to control humans and deceive them by making them sheeps like your God, his son, and his prophets.

My aim is to liberate the human minds and make them gods and not messengers or zombies. Do you understand at all? And I am not having sleepless nights over that nonsense, I am just nullifying the grip on your sheepy life.

It's still a fact that you have not found a way to live a fulfilled life, not to mention making others become "gods". I still stand on the point that you're not even intelligent enough to write a two-page article.

OtemSapien:
How do you know that he's having sleepless night over it? BTW, my ancestors and your ancestors have revealed the true history which will cast shadow of that book of lies you are talking about. Read it here:
https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/doctrine-ufos

How come he is so obsessed with It? And no, I don't need your "true history" link. I'm a living library myself. I was born into it...an initiate...an insider. You don't probably think you know better, do you?

OtemSapien:
I don't have a belief, rather, I am a knower. I cannot be a sheep to anyone. I use my brain.

A knower, yet still ignorant. Whoever is deceiving you that you don't have a belief is doing a great job.

Akin1212:
Says someone who cannot see beyond a book sold for 500 Naira and written thousands of years ago. Void of today's contemporary advancements. What an irony.

An advice: You should go back to wearing robes instead of living in now.

Yes, I can not see beyond it, because you still haven't written a better alternative. And yes, the Book is still the most relevant piece ever. Wonder why you're having sleepless nights over it?

OtemSapien:
That's what I'm saying. Boko Haram can be referred to as the 'sheep of Allah' too, being the obedient followers of the commandment of Allah. Hmm Sheeple cannot be helped.

...don't we all have a belief? Looks like we are all sheep to someone/a belief.

Akin1212:
Just as they did not come across reality, we know.

I see you have...as you can not see beyond your nose

OtemSapien:
Maybe you didn't know that before the dictionary came, the word 'sheep' has been used to mean 'stupidity'.

...and you sure ignorant of the fact that the writer used "sheep" to symbolise "obedient followers".

XXLDICK:
Hmmm, they have started again.

The second coming of Jesus Christ

For over 2000 years they keep saying he is coming soon

Over 2000 years ago Jesus said that generation shall not pass away before he comes.
Matthew 24: 34

Is there anybody over 2000 years old?

There's no rapture, deal with it.

Christianity is a lie and it's purpose has been defeated

And you are obviously ignorant of the fact that the greek word "genea" translated as generation in english primarily means a race of people. You have to be smarter if you want to be a critic.

OtemSapien:
Have you checked for the figurative meaning of a sheep in the dictionary. It means a stupid person.
In other word, the person who wrote that passage of the bible meant to say 'A stupid person hears my voice and obey.'
Hmm.

Well, may be you didn't know that the person that wrote that passage of the Bible never came accross your "dictionary"

First of all, there is nothing like rapture in the Bible. What we have is the second coming and from my little understanding of the Scripture regarding this, it's a one time thing. Now, the danger in this your version of the second coming Jesus is that, it gives hope to sinners (afterall, those left behind will still have a second chance). I bet you, there is no such thing like left behind. You're either redeemed or lost.

nabiz:
in the scripture, but it is a pity many have eyes will even sleep with the scriptures but can not see it. so from my write where are u confuse let me refer u a verse to diggest

Don't just say in the scripture, quote the verses. Give me at least a verse for every point you made. I'm not confused, just trying to correct a confusion. I'm waiting

It's surprising someone here is trying differentiate worship and veneration. You bow before an image and you still claiming you are not worshipping it? Most of this don't even know their church is the antichrist system the Bible was talking about.

nabiz:
If die today you are going to face a patial judgement. In this judgement u have only two options, which means you either go to spirit paradise or spirit prison. Spririt paradise are where the righteousness people will be to await for the final judgement. In the spirit paradise you will be in a state of happiness resting and hapily waiting for the second coming of Christ . Spirit prison on the other hand or exact opposite of spirit paradise. It a place of suffering for unrighteousness people. It is a place where the wicked will be to await the final judgment.

Where did you learn this fable?

Death is a state of unconsciousness. If you die, you died. Nothing to it.

pamshuga1:
I'm sad it isn't possible to chat or talk to you privately....... or how about through WhatsApp?

Concerning sleep paralysis, this is something I struggled for a very long time... from the age of say 8/9 to early 20s. Even relieving those moments still make me scared..,different Pastors never had a solution to it , they said witches, evil forces were responsible for it. At a point it progress to me being in that condition often and often. And for a fact, I just feel an evil force was responsible for it, I can't even kill a mosquito that is biting me due to the force pressing me down. The struggle to come back or to wake up begins.... this moments you can be shouting for help loudly but no one in the room can hear, you even see stuff and I read its one hallucinating. All those period, I never knew it even had a medical term. Till date, I don't sleep with my back against the bed, its either I sleep with my sides or facing the bed.... cos sleep paralysis would surely occur.

Billy, are you saying there is no evil force causing this? or an entity present while this is going on? On one of those period, my dad asked me to make his bed ;he was busy with something in the living room. After making his bed, I laid down just to rest before he comes, before you know it....the sleep paralysis happened, I fought to regain my self from whatever was 'pressing' me down, no way....meanwhile I could hear my dad asking from the other room if I was done....but I couldn't reply. He asked repeatedly yet he got no response , so he decided coming to see what was keeping me quiet there..... but immediately he reached the door , the 'power' holding me down released me. There were other cases I could remember but this one stocked in my head, does it mean someone was in that room watching and decided to release its hold when my dad reached the door.
Those days I could tell when one is about to happen even when I'm still awake, my body starts pricking me all over then it stop;I know its coming . Once it happens to me,and I wake up...no matter how I try going back to sleep....I would still experience it.

I read on one of your topics , I can't remember which one but you gave an assignment...;to sit on a chair preferably by 4am or so when the body still yearns for sleep and try to numb , as in making our body sleep while we are still conscious then see if we can leave our body. I don't know if I got that right but I understood what you wrote.....it makes me wonder if have different type of sleep paralysis. What u wrote about it gave me a little relief.... for the fact that I wasn't crazy or that one can use this tool for a positive thing entirely.

Can evil forces or entity use sleep paralysis on a human being to achieve an aim or something? is the handwork of sucubus/incubus..(i think I've read something like that somewhere) Why did I have this condition for years? Does it have any significance to me or just nothing?

And again, I do love your work.... I love what you do.
if you can give me the permission to drop my WhatsApp number, I would be grateful; I won't bug you.

From your naration, your case of sleep paralysis has spiritual undertone. It was normal, otherwise you won't be released only just because your Dad entered the room, unless he touched you. And...a word of advice before you try that "leave your body" bullsh*t; don't try it, it will destroy you.

vannessa7:
Your cognitive ability has atrophied, you are spewing trash because you cannot comprehend, I will say this to you all Christians trying to trash my write up and experience, we are all going to stand at the judgement throne of God one day to account for everything we have ever done or said, and the ways of God is far different from that of man, so you all are entitled to your opinions, I will not be responding to mentions here much again if at all because I know it's futile, I have said everything that needed to be said but I will still add my revelations and conviction when I have time. Salam

The fact still remains that you converted after you lost your first husband and got married to a moslem. I wonder if you'd be a moslem now if the situation is reversed. Begin to tell yourself the truth.
I'm not interested in your experience in islam as opposed to christianity, it's your personal cup of tea. I just want to tell you what you're not willing to tell yourself.