₦airaland Forum

Nigerian airforce deploys a single C-130 to drop off ~40 men and a LAV to a local air-strip, and the response is:

Covert1:
The NAF & Nigeria's Armed Forces
For the Nigerian Armed Forces as a whole I dare say it is currently the African Military relatively akin to NATO standards in leadership, kit, preparedness and proficiency.

Henry240:
The Nigerian Air Force under Sadique Baba Abubakar has shown immense professionalism hitherto un-heard off south of the Sahara.

All you can do is laugh and show compassion.

Odunayaw:
Even in Op Savannah,there was still subclassification into battles. Of which the Battle of Ebo contradicts your claim

Battle or ambush or skirmish? The authors use of verbiage is open to interpretation. Hence why I focused my statement around operations as a whole.

Also, after raising concerns about citations, you then raise the least cited piece from the entire page.

Covert1:
Actually only the Southies tell us that.

The rebels were seen flaunting captured SA equipment and even had PhotoOps with Journalists in Bangui. It's all over the news.

They were also seen stacking their dead in warehouses.

What is your point? That equipment gets captured in battle? Shock!

Odunayaw:
My point, your narrative is not all encompassing and its one sided, don't tell me nothing about self righteousness.
You're also confusing a whole operation with battles/skirmishes

How many articles & comments did you read on Beegeagles blog that makes you think Nigerians are "generally speaking, non critical and obsequious by nature"? really?

Well, I count operations as battles because as we know there are no singular battles in COIN... as for skirmishes and firefights, I have no idea, I suppose we must have lost one somewhere.

My criticism is more of the hubris that a large segment of Nigerian defence enthusiasts display, compared to the South African community which is generally more critical in its approach.

Covert1:
I'd have obliged you but it's all over the internet. I'll suggest Reuters and RFI but won't go further in honor of the SA 'Paras' KIA.

Why dance around?

Where is your source?

Post it! Dont be scared!

Covert1:
According to the French commander at Bangui Airport "the South Africans said they have had enough and don't want anything more to do with it and just want to get out and quickly".
.

Source?

The voices in your head maybe?

Covert1:
Fake News.

Fake military researcher
then fake soldier
now fake Trump

Just be yourself!

Covert1:
The rebels actually paraded captured SA spoils of war after SA 'Paras' fled Bangui Airport for French protection. That's the historical fact.

The people of Bangui built a statue to our men and begged for our return. This is also a historical fact.

Talking of captured equipment... shall we discuss Vickers tanks, T-55's, MT-LB's, Streit MRAP's, D-30 howitzers and Mowag Prianahs?

Covert1:
It's relevant as he wouldn't have invaded Russia which was his main goal if he didn't think he would win.

Tut tut

Seems your understanding of psychology is as poor as your understanding of military history.

PS: the Tiger only hit the feild at the end of '42 and the Panther in '43

Covert1:
[s]Condescending coward.

Meanwhile you are being slaughtered on the other thread with historical facts not the lies and fake story you peddle that makes even your own country men ashamed to call you one of their own.

Only a coward capitulates for a ban.[/s]

Lol, you sound angry. Calm down.

Odunayaw:
From the references used to summarize the things on Wikipedia one can easily deduce the one sidedness of it.

You you say that there is vast conspiracy at play? The age-old alliance between the military and liberal academics strikes again!

Dude, I hate to break it to you - but we dont feel the need to construct narratives. Infact, we tend to be hyper-critical... because thats how you learn how to do things better. Just go to Defenceweb and read the tone of the articles and comments, and then compare it to a place like beegeagles blog. South Africans are, generally speaking, critical and skeptical by nature.

The operations, and their successes were widely documented - hundreds of photos of row after row of captured equipment.

Covert1:
Again self delusion.

Go and read about Tompolo and Camp 5.

These are guys that were already invading nations and blackmailing presidents.

It took a successful military invasion and capture of Camp 5 by Air, Land & Sea to bring them to the table for a wider peace under a federal government plan not the military.

Ah, yes, the mighty battle for "Camp 5"... so huge that a wopping 5 militants died!

Odunayaw:
Except you had coffins while the Irish didn't.

If I am to give exactly the dose of your poison I would say the French saved you in DRC - but that won't be a complete reality will it?

Nawa o

No, it wouldent.

The French stayed in their airport through-out the battle. the rebels themselves offered a cease-fire.

Odunayaw:
You forgot the part "one sided"
Don't sweet talk me man, all these history are one sided

"It doesnt count, you were too well prepared"

lol, ok then. I guess the German blitz of France and the low-countries doesnt count either

Henry240:
[s]Absolute Rubbish.

You need to look at the map to see why South-Africa is unlikely to be a hot-bed for terrorism. It is not rocket science that a country far isolated and in a Christan dominated region wouldn't be a hot bed for terrorism.

It has nothing to do with the effectiveness of SA security. You don't have an effective security architecture anyway.

Henry Okah was a gun runner buying arms from RSA and shipping them through Angola and Equatorial guinea. He was arrested because the Nigerian government demanded the SA government do so after the 2010 bombing.

You need to stop telling lies.

I always find it laughable when you South-Africans, especially you and Patches peddle false truths.[/s]

"You dont have effective security architecture"

Says the guy who lost about 1/5 of his country to terrorists.

This has literally nothing to do with you - and no, no one wants to hear your opinion. If you want to trade insults, go to the other forum.

Odunayaw:
Look here! You're becoming exactly like the other guy peddling false realities.

And stop the one sided nonsense "We never lost a battle" already

In the entirety of the war in Angola we did not lose a single battle. This is a simple fact.

See for yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operations_of_the_South_African_Border_War

Covert1:
[s]Dude be specific in your language. Don't couch it and try to make it what it's not. Training is a general word. Training could be for making SA pap or whatnot but in this case it was for technical use and application of SA made equipment. That's a verified fact.[/s]

Training you how to fight.

You want me to post the video of the 72 strike-whatever.

Who operate in the South African style?

Dude. Come on.

Odunayaw:
This is bullshit!
You've seen the geography of the Niger Delta? Come back when you understand it. Even the SAS had to be utilized in similar conflict elsewhere

Really? They had tanks, artillery and AA guns?

Dude. Come on. They were nothing more than roving gangs of bandits.

And you didnt even defeat them - you paid them to stop.

Come now. Self-criticism and self-reflection are the only way one acheives self-improvement!

Covert1:
[s]How come Chad stabilized the region yet ended up under the command HQ in the heart of their own capital N'djamena of a Nigerian Combat General Leo Irabor in the MNJTF stabilizing the same region. An irony thanks to the fantasy of a kid called Patch on Nairaland.

The history of all the junk you put up there are well chronicled and a million spins will change it.

The Nigerian Military and it's ECOWAS partners through direct military interventions and military diplomacy brought peace and democracy to Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Guinea Bissau, The Gambia, São Tomé and Principe, Burkina Faso, Guinea, Mali. And where would I stop is it The Congo, Biafra, Somalia, Chad, Togo, The Bakassi Peninsula, The Niger-delta, North-East Nigeria & The Lake Chad Islands and the list goes on and on and in all we have never lost a war. Never!

Meanwhile the South African military while making noise at home has fled a war in the Central African Republic, abandoned a peacekeeping mission in the Sudan because it's soldiers were awed and shocked at the prospect of combat with terrorist militias, his under UN protection in the DRC under the guise of peacekeeping (still not out of that one cos the killings goes on unabated), managed to import the Chinese Communist model of power transfer in Zimbabwe in a brazen day light coup because it lacked the military capability and wherewithal to install democracy next door, has left all SADC countries drifting with different forms of totalitarianism and the list goes on.

Just shut your trap Patch elders are talking.[/s]

"Shut your trap, the adults are talking"

Oh, Augustine... the fact that you use my line tells me it left an impression on you when I used it.

You spew paragraph after paragraph of nonsense.

Fact is that South Africa fought the biggest and most complex war in Africa - and its veterans now form the leadership of the SANDF. Meanwhile Nigeria doesnt even have an air-to-air kill... The SANDF fought one of the hardest battles Africa has seen in Bangui - real Siege of Jadotville stuff - a battle that left the people of C.A.R so impressed they built a statute honoring the SANDF in their capital - and asked us to send their our training mission back!

What is Nigeria's accomplishments? Getting saved by the British Army in Sierra Leone and the USMC in Liberia! Getting saved by South African mercenaries and Chadian foot-soliders in your own country!

Augustine, this is all you have - this is all you want. Just empty, meaningless drivel and insults. No actual analysis or honesty - you actually said Nigeria has the capacity to strike RSA! What a god-awful waste of time.

PS: We arent under the protection of MONUSCO - we are leading it

Covert1:
You can't re-write history. Here is what happened: South Africa was defeated in Angola, got beaten blue-black in Bangui and fled to the airport under French protection and whilst their were some units operating with UN forces in offensive operations in the DRC the South African peacekeepers were generally under the protection of a Tanzanian force.

Since we are talking military history lets talk about Nigeria's glorious history:

Sierra Leone/Liberia:
- completely unable to defeat rag tag militia armed with light weapons
- got pushed back on multiple occasions
- had to rely on local militia to do their fighting for them
- spent more time looting and pillaging than actually acomplishing anything.

After 10 years of Nigerian involvement, the USMC had to come in and stabilized the country in 3 months.

Boko Haram:
- unable to defeat rag tag militia armed with light weapons
- run away so frequently and so constantly that you lose all your weapons to Boko Haram
- boko haram is now a rat tag militia armed with heavy weapons, including Vickers MBT, T55 MBT, MT-LB's, Spartan MRAP's, D-30 feild guns, Shilka's and the like

After 4 years of Nigerian involvement in the N.E, Chad had to come in and stabilize the region in 3 weeks.

Wow - I see a trend!

Covert1:
The SANDF today has nothing on the present capacity and capabilities of Nigeria's Armed Forces. As we speak we have all of your territory covered and already know the windows of every one of your leadership and strategic assets to hit with precision strikes if the need arises to deploy.

Lol this guy.

Ok, tell us how nigeria would "strike" RSA.

Covert1:
Like I said you like to dream. Nothing stops you from deluding yourself on the pages of nairaland with hyperbolic concoctions.

You can't re-write history. Here is what happened: South Africa was defeated in Angola, got beaten blue-black in Bangui and fled to the airport under French protection and whilst their were some units operating with UN forces in offensive operations in the DRC the South African peacekeepers were generally under the protection of a Tanzanian force.

This fvcking guy

1. Angola: South Africa never lost a battle, and acheived its strategic objectives: the prevention of large-scale terrorist incursions into Namibia, a buffer between Luanda and Namibia as well the the complete withdrawal of Cuban troops.

2. Bnagui: The enemy offered a cease fire and all mission objectives were met. How is that defeat?

3. The SANDF is the single largest contriubtor to the UN FIB, your "protection" allegations are your usual nonsense, kicked up to muddy the waters.

Covert1:
Comparing Saddam's Iraqi Army to NATO is insanity in broad day light. Check yourself pls.

Yes, it is insantiy comparing experience to equipment and training. Much like comparing your military to ours.

Covert1:
About M23 and boko haram, it is laughable but insulting your characterization. The MEND the Nigerian Army dealt with in the Niger-Delta was even more deadly than M23. MEND and M23 combined comes nothing close to boko haram that operates based on an ideology to die for God. When rebels in the DRC start strapping 6 year old girls with bombs and attacking UN positions on a suicidal mission something non-existent in your DRC peacekeeping mission then you can come and talk to me.

MEND had no heavy weapons, was not a co-ordinated military force and, in any normal country, would have been dealt with by police. The only reason they got so big in the first place is sheer incompetance - exactly like Boko Haram

Covert1:
Nonsense! Obviously because you can't live down the truth. What an act of cowardice.

Coward you are welcome.

I am more than happy to educate you in the correct thread. Interestingly, you avoid me there.

Post in the appropriate forum, or you will catch a ban (again)

Covert1:
I've repeatedly told you the SADF is not the SANDF. What obtains today in SA is on paper.

There is COIN and there is CT/COIN. You have nothing capable of dealing with terrorists who come to die.

1. How is the SADF not the SANDF? Do you have evidence to support this claim? No you dont.

2. Can you cite any evidence, from reputable military sources, that Counter Insergency is somehow different from Counter Terrorist Counter Insurgency?

Finally: 15,000 dead Cubans, hundreds of thousands of dead Angolans and 2,000 dead South Africans tell us that all soldiers are prepared to die for their cause.

Now augustine, maybe you dont have people to talk to in real life, but please stop this nonsense of starting discussion in a pictures thread. If you want to talk go to the appropriate place.

---> https://www.nairaland.com/1962290/african-militaries-strictly-discussions-thread/19#67486022

Moderators will be informed if you keep this up.

Covert1:
Quite an exaggeration. You haven't yet seen terrorism. When you see one you don't boast about it. What you had were pretenders.

"its only if you fail and allow terrorists to take control of portions of your country that you have seen terrorism and can prove that you can deal with terrorism"

How is it possible that basic logic can be so difficult for some to grasp?

Here, allow me to put it as simply as the English language allows: WE DONT HAVE A TERRORISM PROBLEM BECAUSE WE CATCH THEM BEFORE THEY CAN BECOME A PROBLEM.

Covert1:
Wrong except on paper and TV. The SA military has not been put to the test in modern times except for one significant peacekeeping mission in the Congo with mixed results and where they have had actual combat engagement they failed abysmally i.e Bangui in CAR—not the fault of the soldiers I must add (there are some competent elements within SA' military) but it's military leadership back home for poor planning and support a leadership dearth symptomatic of SA's military in the last decade.

The ranking does not reflect actual realities.

But I like that you dare to dream.

1. It has been put to the test - Angola. Men who fought in that war are still serving in the SANDF. The conflict in Angola remains Africas biggest and most advanced ever fought in Africa - one of the few with regular combined arms operations, the employment of advanced air-defense networks, multi-squadron air-raids, air-to-air combat, SF deployments via submarine and brigade sized combat etc etc etc
2. The deployment in DRC congo has seen the extensive combat, with excellent results: M23 was comprehensively defeated. M23 was better equipped and led than Boko and yet, they are gone and boko is not.
3. Combat in Bangui was a tactical success with the mission meeting its objectives - and a victory on the battlefield. A testament to how good the SANDF is. Can you show me an instance of 200 of your men holding off 4000 enemy for 30+ hours, inflicting heavy casualties and still meeting mission objectives? Nope.

The simple fact of the matter is that the SANDF is better equipped, better trained and has a cohesive and effective military doctrine. The same things cannot be said about your home nation - for goodness sakes, your men in the N.E are moved around the battlefield in dump-trucks!

"b..but muh combat experience"
Saddams military had extensive combat experience, and got wiped by the comparatively "green" NATO alliance. Why? NATO was better equipped and trained and had the superior doctrine.

The fact that you even care about this topic says all that needs to be said.

Covert1:
Well been watching them here shying away from the issue. God forbid islamafascists jihadists decide to make SA their next port of call for terror the size we've seen in north-east Nigeria and the Lake Chad region cos they will quickly overrun the place. SA does not have and have not built the kind of CT/COIN capacity needed to deal with threats of that nature and magnitude. CT/COIN capability and capacity takes months and years to develop.

However SA Muslims though insignificant in numbers have not shown the strain of Jihadi Wahhabism that is the source of all terrorism.

1. The SANDF, its equipment, training SA military doctrine is entirely tailord to deal with COIN threats. This was built over 40 years of continuous combat experience and amounts to vast institutional knowledge - esp since senior leadership of all security services is composed of men who either once hunted insurgents or were insurgents themselves. We have hundreds of Eben Barlows in uniforms and suits.
2. South Africa inherited one of the most sophisticated intelligence structures in the continent from the Apartheid regime.

We had issues with islamic terrorism in the late 90's and early 2000's - we wrecked them then, we will do it again.

jteku:
Whatz ur favourite weapon

the one between her legs

.

South African Police Service, various

Henry240:
There is no way South Africa should be above Nigeria. We have to take into account first the types of threats both Nations face and how they are structured to deal with the threats.

It is not enough to count Frigates and Fighter jets and immediately come to a conclusion that one is better than the other.

In the case of Algeria and Egypt, yes, they are significantly ahead. For Nigeria and South-Africa, that's not true.

Nope.

South Africa is better equipped for ALL spectrums of warfare. Simple.

Furthermore, if it is threat dependant, then your entire ranking system if fvcked because Malawi has no threats, hence, their military is the best prepared!

jln115:
Germany fought the entire world not just one country and if they didn't invade the Soviet Union they would most likely have conquered Europe.....They literally took on the entire world and almost won thanks to thier superior Defence industry and their much more advanced weapons.

Also, doctrine.

Germans had extremely advanced combined-arms doctrine.

The Brits never caught up, and the Americans only caught up towards the end of the war.

Soviet doctrine was terrible, but it worked for them - deep operations against an enemy who is not allowed to maneuver is absolutely lethal.