₦airaland Forum

Dudes, arguing about the rankings is beyond childish.

Anyone whom has even done the most basic bit of statistics would tell you that developing an effective model to rank something as infinity complex as a military is something that, if done, would win you a Nobel prize.

Apart from minutae, like training and moral - which are impossible to quantify. You also have comparisons of doctrine, again impossible to quantify. Or the effects of different individual pieces of equipment - i.e squad radio X v squad radio Y. There are millions of pieces of equipment that would need to be quantified and modeled. Then there are human dynamics - average IQ, literacy rates, education levels, calorific intakes etc etc etc etc etc. Then there are scenarios - most powerful how? where? when?

I also notice, that its only two individuals (no doubt with very high self-esteems*) that are obsessed with their nations rankings in relation to anothers. Grow up.

*sarcasm

Covert1:
You would say, besides even if Nigeria divulges it's full compliment of military defense system and opaque defense procurement process GFP will not accord her it's rightful place on the list. The publication is the same tool of western bias. Military professionals know better.

You arent a military professional

Henry240:
..

Good to see those Saxons coming back online.

I thought they would have been sent to the police though - they did really badly in Ukraine.

Could still be very usefull as CP's or ambulances.

Henry240:
"Super Tucano for SEAD missions?". Are we all talking about the same Super Tucano i know or is this a new variant?

For once we are thinking the same thing.

Talk to your mate Covert1 about it

abiodunalasa:
So after disrupting enemy system thru electronic warfare, the Super Tucano cant still be used ?

"Designed to operate in high temperature and humidity conditions in extremely rugged terrain, the Super Tucano is highly maneuverable, has a low heat signature, and incorporates fourth-generation avionics and weapons systems to deliver precision-guided munitions"...

Boss you are making the beautiful bird look bad

Only high end ECM will work on systems even as dated as the rudimentary as the SA-6

SA-13 is electro-optical.

.

Covert1:
[s]You lie. You care about Nigeria. If you don't you'd have let it slide but you can't as that would mean Nigeria stealing your country's thunder in broad day light. A reality whichever.

You don't care about other African countries. We know your ilk. Oh sry and to hurt you Eber more their tucanos is nothing compared to our tucanos configuration.

Air Marshals who have flown the A-29 Super Tucano has called it the F-16 short of supersonic speed. That's a fact.

That the A-29 has stall speed capability doesn't mean it is slow as you think. Those SAMs you mention have nothing on the NAF.

Nigeria shudders you enough. I promise you pain since you won't be humbled. I'll smear Nigerian pride in your face that you think, eat, sleep and breathe Nigeria that you will never dare again.

Just a moment....[/s]

Tucano A-29 is a Tucano A-29. Want to say otherwise? Prove it.

You are saying that propellor aircraft without SEAD capabilities stands a chance against the same platform that hit a B-52 and shot two of the three F-16's that have ever been shot down

Augustine, this discussion is over. Please stop quoting me.

SternProphet:
We are not buying Super Tucano for SEAD. There is no contested airspace in Africa talk less West Africa. There are puny AA capabilities in West Africa and we are not going to send Super Tucanoes against them.
We want to find, hunt down and kill insurgents and criminals cheaply and accurately.

I know dude, I know.

I know that 99.9% of the Nigerians on this forum are sensible people who know exactly why the Tucano was purchased and exactly what it will be used for. For its intended role - obliterating insurgents - the Tucano is an excellent platform, probably the most effective in the world (when you compare cost to performance - using a Gripen or JF-17 to blow up a technical, is like using a Rolex to hammer in a nail).

But what I cannot handle is this nonsense from Augustine. "Mi-35M is the best of the Mi series" "Tucano can operate in contested airspace"... god help me! Its like watching a toddler fiddle with dog excrement... you just have to step in and correct the behavior!

O well, I have said my bit. Nothing more to say I guess.

Covert1:
1. The configuration of the A-29 Super Tucano that is being built for Nigeria is 'the F-16' on subsonic speeds. It is a multi-role offensive platform capable of a wide range of air combat roles including conventional and COIN tasks.

2. Buying expensive does not mean buying smart. Nigerian military planners know how to source cost-effective platforms mixed with the right sub-systems for the kill in combat.

3. Yea we get it when Nigeria buys all hell breaks lose. You should have cried like you do now when a few other African nations bought the Tucano. I promise you sleepless nights cos Nigeria will continue to soar and fly to your daily chagrin.

4. The current air defence systems of our Neigbours has nothing on the Nigerian armed forces as we can destroy them without sweat even with our currents Capabilities and assets. They know it we know it.

5. Yes Nigerian pride is why we fight and win!

1. I honestly dont care about Nigeria, what I care about is people coming onto military forums, pretending to be soldiers and then talking nonsense.

2. No one said expensive is smart, review the posts if you cant keep up with the argument.

3. I am happy that African nations have bought the Tucano, what I am unhappy about is people comparing it to an F-16 Its just a standard A-29 light attack aircraft.

4. No, the Super Tucano does not stand a chance against the SA-6 and SA-13 and a well operated Oerlikon GDF is more than enough to deny airspace - they took out 4+ harriers in the Falklands.

Again with this "pride" nonsense. If "pride" is your thing then:

--------> https://www.nairaland.com/415620/strongest-military-africa/2

Suprised to see this bad-boy hasnt seen more use in the African battle space.

Would be great to outfit a light Cav unit wit - highly mobile formations who's job is to either screen your main force in conventional operations (on the front during an advance, or the flanks during an attack) or form a QRF in the event that any large insurgent groupings are identified.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inVEUV_T8aM

@Frumentus

Sizzorkay:
Anyone here ever notice that each time Nigerian Military disclose a purchase, this thread goes nuts and people start hurling insults at one another.
If you little girls can just grow up, that would be nice.

I think its more closely related to the presence of Augustine

Covert1:
Last I checked this is a platform for African Militaries. Maybe you learn to comprehend my posts in that context and my choice of words.

We are not planning for war with Russia or China that have those kind of advanced and dense air defenses or military installations—such hardly exists in this region and where it does Nigeria has no geo-political ambitions.

Still in this region whilst the anticipated NAF A-29 Super Tucano' may be limited by speed compared to fast jets it's full compliment of weapons system gives it comparative advantage over what currently obtains and can be employed in SEAD from a stand-off position.

For different environments and threats are different solutions. There's always a combination of forces for effect.

Today hardly anyone risks flying over enemy airspace to be shot down but if NAF pilots could do that with Alpha Jets in foreign lands targeting key enemy installations and air defenses under fire then it can do much more with the incoming A-29 Super Tucanos.


Besides NAF' New Mi-35M are not cheap ok! And don't take too much of all you read online. A lot of it is the work of lobbyists. The reality is much much different. You can't dampen Nigeria's pride however you try whatever innuendos you use.

Get over it and get some sleep.

1. Tucanos arent designed for a contested airspace - one got shot down by Narco-terrorists in South America
2. A contested airspace is a contested a contested airspace - africa or elsewhere.
3. Your major neigbors posses significant AA capabilities: Cameroon - Oerlikon GDF. Chad - SA-6/13/7, Stinger, ZU-23.
4. Tucano is incapable of SEAD, you would only be able to use the AGM-65 which has the range, but you need something to target with.
5. Lobbyists have nothing to do with anything - the Mi-28 and Mi-35 are made by the same company

Again, you are so obsessed with this nonsensical idea of "Nigerian pride" (wtf does that even mean?) that instead of saying "Tucano is an excellent COIN platform" you say "WE GON FIGHT DE CONVENTIONAL WAR WIT DIT, WE GUN DO SEAD WIT DIT!TUCANO IS 18G GROWLER!"

Grow. UP.

Iblawi1:
If 4 billion/24= 166 million dollars each.

You are a hopeless liar.

Algeria have over 42+ MI28.

Iraq have 17 in service and 19 still on order.

MI 28 might be better than MI35M but price is not the determining factor.

My mistake, i can post the source i used if you want.

It works out to $16-18 million per aircraft, the Mi-35M $12,5

Covert1:
...a multi-role offensive asset that gives the Nigerian Air Force great capability to hit the enemy before they know what hit them...enemy air defences and strategic installations are some of the kill options.

Pic: Rear Cockpit of The A-29 Super Tucano

OMG

Do you say these things with the intention of de-railing the thread?

tucanos are for use in uncontested airspace
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/02/20/a-light-attack-aircraft-fleet-could-it-change-the-fight-or-put-lives-at-risk/

This is my problem with you. You have to constantly pretend things are as they are not. Why cant you accept things are as they are?
Tucano is an awesome LICW platform - leave it at that
The Mi-35M is an excellent medium-cost force multiplayer - leave it at that.

Henry240:
Nigeria actively pursued the purchase of the T-129 ATAK Helicopter, however we found the MI-35M suits our needs more.

Cost had nothing to do with it, as the 12 MI-35m we purchased cost more than 400 million dollars.

How much does 12 MI-28N cost?

There are alot of considerations which are taken into account when buying a weapon system. For Nigeria the MI-35M provides us an insane amount of capabilities, capabilities not found in the MI-28N or T-129.

The price for the 12 Mi-28N delivered to Iraq was $1,2 billion, the 24 to Algeria over $4 billion - more than what you spent on your Mi-35 and Tucano combined.

So, yes, cost is exactly why. There is nothing wrong with that.

Odunayaw:
I think they can tweak our doctrines of weapon implementation

Just a section of 60mm mortar men and it could have saved the day
Cc: Frumentius come and yarn the mortar gospel

This.

60mm coming in at the company level with 81mm coming it at the battalion level, you could lay down some serious supression.

newafricaken254:
looking at the boko haram quadcopter drone video,one can see the yellow lorry"truck" and eventually we do see the destroyed ZSU-23-4 Shilka.so this photo was taken prior to boko haram attacked them

Just saw this now.

You are right (it seems)

They are watching you

Pic 1&2: BH propaganda footage of drone footage
Pic 3,4: the yellow dump truck

Its seems that the current war in the N.E is being fought by just one Nigerian task force* as these two yellow trucks just keep popping up over and over.

Further... if indeed it is just this one NA task force that is "on the money" then things dont bode well for that Shilka, of the M2 variant, (last pic), as I am pretty sure the latest BH propaganda footage includes images of a knocked out Shilka M2 (most Nigerian Shilka still have radar dishes, thus the M2 is somewhat of an oddity in Nigerian service - likely having its radar-dish removed for the war in the N.E).

*or just one task force is actually close to a major BH element

They are watching you

Pic 1&2: BH propaganda footage of drone footage
Pic 3,4: the yellow dump truck

Very interesting stuff - and 50% related (Egypt is in Africa, Isreal isnt)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwebtMK_pbU

@Frumentus seems sock-puppets are now getting into your profession - before you know it, military planners around the world will have their jobs outsourced to Russian sock-puppets. Perhaps its time to build a wall? MAGA*?

*Make (Military) Analysts Great Again?

Very interesting scenario - comprehensive and balanced


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwebtMK_pbU

What do you guys think?

As a military enthusiast (and for fellow enthusiasts) I also highly recommend this guys channel on youtube - extremely informative
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPdk3JuQGxOCMlZLLt4drhw

despite being a sock-puppet, he gives extremely comprehensive reveiws and scenarios. The video they made on the Kirov Battle Cruiser v Burke Destroy was so technical it gave me a headache

tdayof:
Question: why should we get the Rooivalk? When the Mi-35M fits our requirements perfectly. The Rooivalk adds no special capabilities to our airforce.

Lets have this dance again

kenpaul0:
Hi Frum, you have Jewish ancestry in anayway?

(((frumentius)))

SupremeCourt:
A South African who knew the low mentality of Nigerians recommended 1977 tech T-72 maintenance factory for Nigeria and the Nigerians said amen to his prayer.

1. T-72B3 is not 1970's tech.
- the hull is from either 1985 or 2000 (depending on the base model)
- the optics and FCS are as modern, or more modern than, those found in the T90
- the reactive armor (built into the hull) is exactly the same.

2. Egyptian needs =/= Nigerian needs.
- Egypt faces Merkava's
- Nigeria faces insurgents
- This is why Egypt is focusing on Abrams and T90s, it has to prepare for Tank v Tank combat against peer adversaries. Which peer adversaries
does Nigeria have in the region? NONE. Which surrounding nations have modern tanks or are planning on getting them? NONE.

3. Egyptian equipment =/= Nigerian equipment
- Priorities.Nigeria (as are all other 3rd world militaries) are lacking in multiple departments in terms of equipment that is far more cost
effective and that will provide far greater fire-power: IFV's (tracked and wheeled), MRAP standardization, transport trucks, helicopters, body
armor, upgraded fire-arms and standardized fire-arms, communications equipment, tactical vehicles, training facilities, feild hospitals, feild
kitchens, HESCO (lots of it) etc etc etc etc

This has nothing to do with bravery, this has everything to do with your ego - you simply cannot admit to being wrong.

ssaengine:
No they are not arguments. It's simply supplying information, with no exaggeration. Unlike you that says:

"DENEL Mokopa has 93% chance of missing very easy target in broad day light"

That is a direct quote from you. Made up rubb1sh with no proof, to satisfy your lifelong lack of attention. Anyways, I've entertained you enough & let me stop derailment. Cheers

Stop.

There is no point, he isnt a normal person - as soon as you win an argument he will shift and pivot to create a new one.

Guys. STOP.

Stop replying to his posts. Stop fuelling this madness.

Augustine wants to say that Russia has never test fired the S-300, then fine, we all know its re.tarded - so ignore it. He only comes here to fight with people, so dont entertain him. The guy clearly has issues, he isnt a normal person and arguing only makes it worse.

For the sake of the thread. STOP.

SupremeCourt:
You keep replying a matter you said is over? Makes sense? Since you restart it again, you force me to reply. @tdayof you see its not my fault.

Patches, you must prove to us that the Mokopa target miss at export demo was at 10km to justify deviation. If you cant prove it, you lost, I win.

Also tell us the kill ration of mokopa if its up to 93% like APKWS that you call common technology.

1. APKWS is common, this is beyond dispute - there are half a dozen products which are exactly the same.

2. The listed deviation for the Mokopa is the listed deviation. I dont need to prove anything.

3. One miss means nothing. Statistically irrelevant.

This argument is over. There is nothing to discuss. Stop.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqE1Ni8yB_0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmizeCK4xnY

SupremeCourt:
Am SupremeCourt, look elsewhere for your Augustine giving you nightmares. Your comment is 300 words long, too much for this photo thread, take it away to discussion thread, stop making unwanted arguments here.

Denel RSA Mokopa missile explodes only on impact, so missing target = exploding inside sand = zero effect on enemy = 100% mission failure totally missing the easiest ready made target the world can offer in demo. Tucano APKWS has kill ratio 93%.
End of discussion.

---

Makopa has a deviance of 0.3m at 10km - that means at 10km, it will hit within a 30cm circle of the target
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/HH06%20-%20Mokopa.html

This discussion has been over for a very long time, augustine.

frumentius:
Soon to appear with an incompetent Gulf military near you, as a result of those Foreign Military Sale funding mechanisms the Yanks are always throwing about .

Seriously though, I think the Parabats made a mistake passing on the Valkiri 5, just because the Recces did, in favour of the type-63.
Parabats could do with a towed Valkiri 5 and and improved/guided 120mm mortar.

Even the origional Valkiri should be enough for the paras, they could bring it in via TALO.

Fun fact: The Valkiri was made 127mm so that it could fire captured Soviet ammo, but at the same time, if the Angolans captured South African ammo - they would be unable to use it on their BM-21 Grad, because the Grade fires 122mm.

SupremeCourt:
Yes, but many guided weapon manufacturers have official hit rate so user knows what to expect in war, some missiles as low as 60%.

Mokopa was not laser jammed when it missed easiest target in the world, gripen plus rooivalk combined computer guidance on a target set neatly like dining table food and mokopa launch pilots were told what and where target is so demo can impress Nigeria buyers at the show, yet mokopa still missed target under such super easy conditions, DENEL dare not come out boast of any hit rate like APKWS that is world beater at 93% kill probability.

If it was South Africa that achieves 93% score they wont tell you hit rate does not make any guided missile or rocket a leader in its class. These RSA guys just twist tales to have good sleep at night when their inflated ego balloon meets sharp needle.

If NAF Tucanos APKWS hi-tech is common knowledge as South Africans claim, why cant DENEL make mokopa technology score 93% hit rate? Hehehehe, Okokobioko nite of tausand laffs

(He thinks firing a missile from one platform and feeding it targeting data from another platform, at max range, is easy)

The Makopa test firing in question was LOAL - High:

Prior to launch, target information must be supplied via the on-board sighting system or from an external source. After launch, the missile flies towards the target area, using the selected trajectory and fly-out method. During the terminal phase, the target must be illuminated by the on-board sighting system or a remote designator.

Makopa has a deviance of 0.3m at 10km - that means at 10km, it will hit within a 30cm circle of the target
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/HH06%20-%20Mokopa.html

Mokopa technolodgy is advanced enough, Mossad embarked on a 3 year long campaign to steal it
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/mokopa.htm

Now, Augustine, your questions have been answered. Please stop trying to cause conflict and unnecessary discussion on this thread. You may want to argue, but this thread is not the place. If you wish to have arguments go to:
----> https://www.nairaland.com/415620/strongest-military-africa
---->https://www.nairaland.com/2239266/battle-field-discussion-picture-video