₦airaland Forum

plainbibletruth:
Please! Please!! Can you just let us have ONE of those scriptures again; one that CLEARLY states your position.

There was never a place God spoke against tithing .
Jesus is our highpriest forever unto who we give our tithes.

Psalms 110:4(KJV)
4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent Thou art a priest for everafter the order of Melchizedek.


Jesus endorsed tithing .

Matthew 23:23(NLT)
. . . You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

Tithes and offerings as principles existed before the law. Also mentioned in the law. The fact that it was mentioned in the law doesn't nullify it.

The law contained certain kingdom principles . Which doesn't have end . Such as tithes ,offerings, thanksgiving,prayer ,fasting, alms , and other moral values. Why do antitithers focus only on tithes . When the rest are mentioned in the law also.

Secondly , the law is the oracle of God. The scriptures read in the apostolic days was the law. It was the law Paul told Timothy to study .
Paul quoted the law many times to the church . Not because they were seeking the righteousness of the law but because the law contains Gods minds on right and wrong.

Without the law we will have no knowledge of what sin is. If you throw out the law. Then the church looses every moral value.

On what ground can you condemn incest without the law?

Nobody wants to rubbish anything. I believe we are only out to make each other understand things better.

Let’s stick with the issue- no mandate REQUIRES tithing for the Christian. He is to choose how to give to God.

That's free will offering . There are different kinds of givings in Gids kingdom.

Even if you restrain yourself from opening up to me, why not do it for the sake of hundreds of others who are viewing this thread?

.
I due course

You have agreed yourself that there are some things in past dispensations that no longer apply to the church e.g. animal sacrifices which was one of the MAJOR rules in relating with God in those dispensations. How did we come to know that a change has occurred regarding animal sacrifices to God – by going back to the shadow of the old covenant or by using the reality of the New Covenant to understand it?

They were sin offering . It was a shadow of The blood of Christ .

Hebrews 9:13-14 (KJV)
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The 21st Century Christian is not the first generation of the church. So, the issue is how did our forebears see these things as revealed to them in the New Testament epistles? Did they see it like you see it or do you TODAY have a better “revelation” than they did?

“Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or UNDER COMPULSION …”
2 Corinthians 9:7

It's not a New Testament revelation . Every worship of God has been by choice . Both in gift and sacrifice it must be from willing heart not compulsion

Exodus 25:2 (KJV)
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.

Peacefullove:
what exactly is the purpose of tithe in the first place , was it not to care for the Levites ? Please is the Levitical priesthood arrangement still in existence to warrant the continuation of tithes ?

Partly . The full time ministers in the church stands as levite now.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (KJV)
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

openmine:
This Scriptures are for sin offering and burnt offerings....where is the scripture that states that burning of incense was taken away...

Incense was for sin. Jesus was sin bearer . Don't go in a circle . Where is the scripture that says tithe was taken away

I know better according to Hebrews 7:18

There's difference between content and application . Brother . The law was a system . It man could not attain righteousness by the system or perfection. But that's not a condemnation of good value contained in the law.

Do you steal ? Do you worship idol ? Do you commit incest . Do you dishonor parent . I want to believe your answer is NO. it's a contradiction for you .

Note that i have presented scriptures to buttress my point...Since U said NOT all the laws were abolished,can U provide scriptures to prove which law was abolished and which one REMAINED? Remember Bro petra1, scriptures not man made theology...thanks

The law is the law of God . It's the revelation of Gods mind . I asked you a question which you were not bold enough or honest to answer . What scripture was the early church using? Let me answer it for you. It's the law which you demonize that was the scripture for the church!

Without the law you have no written document of the oracle of God. The law contains some aspects which were shadows of christ which were fulfilled in christ. Such were the weak element you're holding on to. It didn't take away the moral value in the law , There was judicial law, moral law and law which has to do with sacrifices for sin ,atonement etc. You need to get out of the petty petty things you're picking on and dwell on big picture .

Paul believed in the law. Christianity is not in adverse position with the moral value of the law . Because they are based on principles.

Acts 24:14 (NLT)
14 “But I admit that I follow the Way, which they call a cult. I worship the God of our ancestors, and I firmly believe the Jewish law and everything written in the prophets.

Nigeria had had several constitutions. But the moral values are constant. Even though this may not be perfect example but Murder will always be murder.

The foundation for the new testament was based on the old . It was man's imperfection in his flesh that became the challenge . The law was good but man lacked the ability to do the works because of the sin nature . God brought a new law which is a programming in man's spirit . By this man now has ability to do the law as a result of the nature of righteousness.

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 (KJV)
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Caught U..
If Abraham was not under the law,Why wud U validate tithe payment and process using the law of moses?
U see why Ur insistence that tithe predated makes no sense?

Principles transcend dispensations . Principles predate the law. And the fact that they were document in the law doesn't invalidate them.

Am not evasive....when i discus,i stick to the subject matter....which is TITHE......There will be enough time to talk about incest

Our discussions would have come to a quick end if you could attend to the questions asked . But I know why and you know why you're avoiding them. So let's see how long it will take you.

It matters what Abraham does since he is the father of faith...Isn't that right?

What has a man's error got to do with spiritual act .

Like i said,stick to the subject of discuss...It will only complicate the whole discus which i know will delight U

Then let's stick to the topic of the thread .

Don't know wat U mean...I cant find TITHE practice from those scriptures....the early Christians practiced benevolence in ACTS,Paul admonished the church in Corinthians to grow in the gift of benevolence...So i cant find where the early Christians tithed bro Petra1....

. I can't find where the early church taught against incest . Can you explain that?

Thats not true Petra1....Thats a huge lie....stop such blasphemy because of tithe...haba
How did U know there was no book?
U just guessed that it was handed down to them by mouth...
Where did U concoct such a preposterous lie...well,its expected...So am not surprised..

So What book did they document ?

..Once again,You have failed to offer proof about Ur tithe beliefs...

Jesus endorsement was good enough and 1cor 9 was clear enough

So in ur own thoughts,since their lives were not documented,U inserted Ur own "documentation" to suit Ur own analogy?
Bro petra1 stop making a mockery of ur beliefs.....Just because of tithes...
Ur lies are like Peak Milk....

This is better...
Jacob Vowed which is based on his own volition....
He placed a condition before God which is rather odd...
U cannot use such as proof to justify tithes payment....
Remember It was a Vow...Dont get it twisted bro...U already have!

Remember he had been with his dad all the while . This was his first time of setting out as an adult . How did Jacob know about tithes? Why not 5%.

Once again U are leaving the subject matter and making random claims using prayers....

Deal with it

U must remember that prayers existed before,during and after the law....Unlike tithes Prayers were mentioned countless times before the law was given....
How many times was tithe mentioned before the law? None! Thats because

Beautiful . But it's not by the number of times recorded but rather as a principle . Abraham only prayed once . So it's not about the number .

Abraham never gave any thing associated with tithe...Simple

Lie upon lie .What do you say to these .

Hebrews 7:6 (KJV)
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:9 (KJV)
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Once again i ask...Wud ur earthly father ask anything from U wen he is already wealthy?

Is that a today rebelationWhen did he start being wealthy? Just in your own generation? He has been who he has been . It's about worship .

Psalms 50:12-14 (KJV)
12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee:
for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
13 Will I eat the flesh of bulls,
or drink the blood of goats?
14 Offer unto God thanksgiving;
and pay thy vows unto the most High:

So it's about worship. We still do thanksgiving. Both with our mouth and offering .

Those principles are not and will never be tithes but benevolence!!

What you need to understand,there are different kinds of giving . They all have their blessings. Giving to God ,(tithes offerings ) giving to mog ,giving to the poor (alms),giving to parents , giving to fellow brethren etc .

I had quoted where U said so initially and U still want me to quote it again?
U sud do so....Its for ur upliftment!

I didn't see it . I don't mind if you can kindly do that.

Grammar oga grammar...
Generous----Cheerful,open-handed,

The passage you quoted, did it not contradicts your kalo kalo God claim? What do you say to verse 6

2 Corinthians 9:6(KJV)
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

But thats wat tithe is all about?
Paying of tithe in exchange to having "floods of blessings"...abi nah lie?

It's security plan

Windows of heaven was quoted in Malachi 3:10
Was there "grace in tithing" in the "law of moses"?

If you obey the law blessing . Disobey curse. Malachi only gave deeper insight. Devourer is rebuked etc. The issue is blessing is grace . The absence of blessing is curse .

And yet U claim U only obey the predated tithes?

You inserted "ONLY" I believe in tithes as a kingdom principle , just like prayer ,worship ,offering ,fasting , alms giving etc

Scriptures,scriptures,scriptures.....stick to the grace of tithe which is none existent in the bible...If there is let scriptures be ur proof!

Joshua 1:8 (KJV)
8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night . . .and then thou shalt have good success

1 Timothy 4:15 (KJV)
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.


James 4:6 (KJV)
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Proverbs 29:23 (KJV)
23 A man's pride shall bring him low:
but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

2 Peter 1:2 (KJV)
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

Proverbs 13:15 (KJV)
15 Good understanding giveth favour . .

Obedience based on the new covenant which has a new law controlled by a new priesthood Jesus christ Is our guide...His priesthood has nullified all existing laws....by bringing the to an end....
Hence If U want to obey the laws of moses,U must ensure U keep all the laws of moses not just tithe...and secondly,Also know that U are making a mockery of the priesthood of christ thereby disobeying God!!
If U claim U are neither for the law or post law,Know that U are no where

The new law is not a pronouncement by Jesus . It's a programming in the newly recreated sprint . It's a nature of love and righteousness. Which not only gives us right standing but gives us ability to do right . But to do right . Knowledge of scripture is require . You can't do what you don't know . And that's where the law comes in.

A family may may do incest or homosexual following the carnal impulses without knowing that it's wrong . It's only in those precious scriptures you condemn they can see the wrong .

Romans 7:7 (KJV)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.




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realmindz:
I can bet you are a very ugly girl. Nothing personal, just saying.

She's very pretty

openmine:
good...is there a scripture that burning of incense has been abolished?
If dere is please provide one for it....

Romans 5:11
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Hebrews 10:3-4
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And if I may remind U petra1,ALL the laws of moses were part of the atonement for sin....
scriptures wasn't specific dat some laws were abolished while some remained!

Not true . You should know better than that. What has tithes got to do with atonement. Honoring your father and mother . Alms for the poor . Mercy etc. Just to mention few

The reason behind the insistence is because Ur argument lacks substance...d scriptures u presented talked about a law not a pre existing principle which U claim has no relationship with d law

Abraham wasn't under the law

being rhetorical doesn't suit U...it only makes u look evasive...

You're rather the evasive one .You should answer the question . Was the church told incest was wrong?

In oda words it was a lifestyle for Abraham to sleep with a maid right?
It was also a lifestyle for Abraham to lie?

He made his mistakes so What about it .

The issues Paul addressed are well documented in the scriptures and dere is no portion where he included tithes...

Did Paul talk about Incest ?

If dere was a better place where Paul wud have inserted tithes,it wud have been in 2 Corinthians 8 or 9....
but none mentioned tithes but free will giving....Even the early Christians in acts practised free will giving in Act 4....wouldn't dat have been a beautiful moment to introduce tithes to the gentiles?

I you're bold and honest to answer the question above and not been as evasive as you have been ,you will find your answer there

Hahahahahahahahaha.... So the principle of tithe was revealed to him with no reference from the scripture except him giving war spoils to melkezedek...
how is it possible that no scripture captured this superb revelation by Abraham on the principle of tithe?
Even when Paul was describing Abraham as the father of faith,he didn't even utter that revelation about tithe...chai

There wasn't a book. They handed revelation down to next generation by mouth. God acknowledged that Abraham would teach his ways to his family .

Genesis 18:19
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him . . .

Recognize that Every details of their lives were not documented. But from Jacob we God to know that the principle was passed down to the next generation. He must have gotten it from his father Isaac who was raised by Abraham

Genesis 28:22
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Do u see how empty and illogical such analogy from U sounds?
bro pls stop lying...Dis is based on Ur own analogy..Very faulty!

That's an important point rather . Prayer is A principle of communication. Which started befor the law . It was mentioned in the law. Why don't you abandon prayer because it was mentioned in the law. Why tithe?

Secondly meditation is a principle . Which started before the law. And mentioned in the law . Why don't you condemn it because it' was in the law?

and yet of all the laws of moses,only tithe passed the test of fire according to bro petra1

My repose above answers this

If Dats a path u want to take,let's start....
Wud u need the law of moses to stop you from killing?
Do u need the law to make U avoid looking at Jr neighbour's wife seductively?
Do u need d law to stop U from stealing?
Do u need a law to make U love?
finally,do U need a law to make U avoid making love or hitting on ur siblings?

Kindly try answer the question . Well I know why you can't answer the question and that's not nice . It shows you're getting the point any way. But here is it . If you're clinging on the fact that no specific instruction was giving directly about tithe and for that reason you don't give God his tithe. There are several issues that don't have records of dos and don'ts in the epistles . Just like the case of incest. . You agree with me that incest is a sin. But the question is . It was mentioned in the law . And that doesn't not go away despite the fact that it's not taught in the church or we don't have such record . Why is it tithe you refuse to give because of the funny excuse that it wasn't taught according to you. Hope youre you're seein the picture . And I believe that's why you are avoiding to answer the questions because it make a mess of the excuse you give for not giving tithes. Secondly if you don't need the law concerning incest why do you need law for tithes?

God is Ur father and he is willing to make all grace abound to U so that in all things and at all times,having all daT u need will abound in every Good Thing...2 Corinthians 9
He is our father not a master or draconian ruler or a kalokalo master....

Wud ur earthly father ask anything from U wen he is already wealthy?

Brother there is difference between having eternal life and laying hold on eternal life. There is difference between being blessed and b
Laying hold on the blessing. It's God part to give which he has done in christ . He also gives us principle on how to lay hold of the graces . It's Gods part to give ,its mans part and responsibility to receive.

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...Go tru Ur previous posts....it obvious u forget wat U have written..

I never said such . It's your responsibility to prove otherwise

Giving is based on a generous heart,expecting nothing in return from the receiver,
besides,God has made u a wealth reservoir..

Where did scripture say such . kindly back it up. Because my bible says otherwise

U a wealth reservoir because of the promise given in Genesis 12 by God to Abraham...

That's no news

why wud a wealth reservoir who always gives run out of supply or want to receive...?

..why wud a wealth reservoir want to get wat he or she already has in abundance.... does that make sense?

Several reasons

God doesn't need ur money or wealth....ur money or wealth is a physical proof that he is an over wealthy God..
Saying that God needs Ur money is insulting to him...
God is not a man..doesn't think like a man...If God were to be a man,he wud never have offered his son Jesus for the world..keep dat in mind

Like I said,God demands our praises and thanks not our money....

Just loving God by mouth . But no giving awesome revelation you don't even need to pray Sef . After all you own everything. .

Very Good...am surprised Dis is coming from U who believes u must offer God sum tin b4 he blesses U

I never said so.

...and dere was no scripture that accompanied the supposed "grace in tithing"?

Windows of heaven , rebuking devoured.

the usage is important to remind U and oda tithers that U don't GIVE tithes but its PAID....
Tithe is a compulsory payment made during the law....
there is nothing like FREE-WILL TITHING ....
its either U r tithing according to THE LAWS OF MOSES or free-will giving according to scriptures....
mixing both is like combining oil and water...it will never mix...

It's a necessity. You do the word of God , you enjoy the blessing or grace each one carry. Just as there is a grace which comes through knowledge. There's is a grace which comes through meditation . There is grace for humility you will be exalted etc .

God never force any man into anything. You have the right to obey and disobey . You obey enjoy the benefit you disobey you miss the benefit the obedience carry.

President1 I sent you a mail . Kindly reply

openmine:
Dats my issue with U petra1....
was it only burnt offering or sin offering that he "filled"?
wat about burning of incense?

It's still all part of atonement for sin.

the question U still have not answered is where was tithe an eternal principle before,during and after the law in the scriptures?
God is not an author of confusion..

As I said above . There's no point asking me question over and over when your mind is set to rubbish every fact presented .

..if he knew the importance of tithe,he wud have instructed Paul or peter to inform the converted gentile to also tithe in acts?

Did he tell the church incest was wrong? Why would he be giving them such when it was a life style. Paul only addressed the church in the areas they had issues .

which tithe are U referring to?
If I can recall,U mean the "law tithe" ?
But U said the tithe U observe predated the law...in other words,it existed before the law which U labelled an 'eternal principle'....Unfortunately, U and other faithful tithers have been unable to show scriptures to prove that Abraham was actually obeying an eternal principle wen he offered the 10th of war spoils to king Melchizedek!

My brother . Abraham tithed because it was a principle of faith revealed to him . The law was only a confirmation. Every thing starts from somewhere . Men were not praying to God before until a period in the Generation of Enos .

Genesis 4:26
. . . and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.


Why have you not outdated prayer despite the fact that it was in the law. Why is it only in the area of giving . We come up with double standard revelation. Offerings and tithes ,prayers worship are Gods kingdom principle

Which mean it was a man made insertion....which has been causing disharmony in the body of Christ...

There had never been a disharmony until few of you in this generation started bringing up new ideas . I've been tithing and giving offering from childhood. And the more I study the more I see the reason for it

why didn't the early Christians tithe in acts?
Why will U say wat God has not said...?

Why didn't the early church condemn or preach against incest ?

who told U God needs ur money?

Because whatever God gives you is to serve him . Those who don't give him his due are worshiping mammon with nice excuse .

who told U money was d very reason why God blesses us..?

When did I say that ?

So according to petra1,God is now a ponzi scheme or a baba ijebu that offers wealth in exchange 4 ur money?

U can deceive some gullible fellows with that fraudulent concept,but U can't deceive everyone...

Quote what I say pls. Besides are you saying there's no receiving in giving?

Saying man can't worship God with emptiness is disrespectful and a mockery of the sovereignty of God almighty...

God demands our praise and worship with a sincere and loving heart willing to know him and serve him with love and zeal!

God is our beloved father...

You love him with mouth only ? You see what we are talking about .

wud a loving and faithful father demand ur money or possession before helping his children?
U and many tithers are the reasons why atheists mock and insult God on the religious section with these fraudulent and manipulative theologies...

God doesn't need our giving to bless us . He has blessed us from the foundation of the world in christ. One thing is God giving another thing Is you recieving . Every act of obedience carry a grace . There's a grace that accompany tithes and offerings . It opens widows to receive. There is a grace for honouring your parents . It cause prosperity and long life . There a grace for prayers ,there is a grace that accompany submission. etc. So it's left to individuals . Stop using such language as compulsory tithing . Everything is by choice .even salvation

plainbibletruth:
It is clear that you have been UNABLE to give clear biblical support for your ‘eternal principles’ jargon. You were asked OVER AND OVER AGAIN to provide simple explanations and point to ANY SCRIPTURE to justify your position but you have not been able to do so.
When and where in the Bible were these ‘eternal principles’ set up? How according to the Bible are they to be observed?

How can we ‘KNOW’ what you are talking about when you have refused to make it plain?

There is no point presenting more scriptures to you . If you can't see it from the points I've raised you can't see in . Until God unveils . Because your mind is set on rubishing whatever point raised .

No one is talking about not giving to God. The Scripture is clear for the Christian to know enough about giving. So, MAKE NO MISTAKE about this; no one is saying ‘don’t give to God’.
The issue again is this: THERE IS NO MANDATE IN SCRIPTURE FOR THE NEW COVENANT BELIEVER TO TITHE COMPULSORILY!

Is there a mandate to honor parents , is there a mandate not to commit incest. In the church .

We have not used any ‘theological jargon’, rather it is you TITHERS that have done so with your ‘eternal principle’, ‘tithing by faith’ ‘revelation’, etc. jargon. What we have done is use scripture upon scripture to show you God’s position on giving for today.

You guys are the ones who want to SOOTHE your consciences – because you’re afraid you may be ‘robbing’ God – by insisting on and yoking yourselves to MANDATORY TITHING

The TRUTH is there for the Christian to see – how did your fellow Christians (New Covenant believers) in the Bible give to God? Sincerely seeking the answer to that question will make you move ahead.
“… Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” 2 Corinthians 3:17

Brother there are somethings I'm restraining myself from saying it will be waste of time because I'm not dealing with an objective seeker of truth but rather someone who is out to mock the faith of another . But I will say this. The church age is only a dispensation. It will end . The principles of God continues. The church age is only a part of the kingdom of God . The principles of the kingdom will always be . Men will always worship God with substance

thorpido:
Persecution is often not physical attack,isn't it?

In their time it was death mostly . And imprisonment

randomperson:
So if why the need for heavily armed body guards

It's unnecessary if it's not needed . It's only if a man runs the risk of being attacked that such may be required . Some people have enemies ,some don't

thorpido:
The issue here is not that Jesus didn't know His disciples were armed,it's that His words in Luke 22:36 were not instructing them to take up swords.
In Matt.10:34,Jesus said,'Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace upon the earth,but a sword'.
Was the sword He spoke of here a physical one?

Good question ,. It's obvious it's physical sword . Taking about persecution

Chiedu4Trump:
Oh boy the sword here is not a physical sword but spiritual one.
Notice that 12 of them produced 2 swords and Jesus said they are enough.

Think about it, how can 12 people use 2 swords.

Luke 22 (KJV)
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Did you read my post above. Why would Jesus tell them 2 swords were enough if he wasn't talking about physical swords. He wouldn't have hesitated to correct them as he usually did when they mis understand him.

A Christian sword is the WORD OF GOD!
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
So Jesus said to do all to get the sword

You're right except that he wasn't talking to Christians . Christianity came after christ died

openmine:
...If U say Abraham tithed before the law because it was a "eternal principle",we can as well claim that burnt offering or burning of incense or circumcision was also a spiritual or eternal principle since it was done before the law....

Christ has filled that. Burnt offering is a sin offering. Jesus is atonement for sin. There's is no replacement for tithes ,nor free will giving nor alms to the poor . Nor honor for your father and mother . GIVE GOD HIS TITHE AND OFFERING. you can't worship God with emptiness and spend all on your self by pretending you're not aware .

plainbibletruth:
It is clear from this your answer that it’s likely you are UNABLE to explain what ‘eternal principles’ are or what that phrase means. You guys must have picked it up from somewhere and are now using it to sidetrack or deflect others from seeing your true motives for tithing

Eternal principles simply means . There's no end to them . No time limit. No end to tithes. Offerings ,prayers ,good works etc. They are principles in the kingdom of God. . I know you guys know what I'm talking about. You just don't want to admit it. If you don't give to God it's your business. But the truth remains . You're robbing God . Coming up with theological jargon to excuse your conscience doesn't change the fact.

OlaoChi:
Why would the Almighty Creator of Everything ever have had a 'chosen people' ? even if there is a chosen race why not your race? why semetic jews?

Firstly ,Nigeria wasn't in existence secondly God always use somebody .he didn't chose a race , He chose a man. Abraham . And now he is a universal God. In christ all race are one because of Abraham . Abraham wasn't a Jew .

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

you talk about spiritual and spirit, questions for you ., what is a Spirit? and what stands to be Spiritual?

Atheist are not the only ones smart enough to see the fraud of Christianity[/quote]You're curious to know about God because of the vacuum of your heart . I have answers for you . About God . Just be humble to ask sincere questions.

thorpido:
Armed........but not physically. It was figurative.Similar to the expression,'gird up your loins' as used in the bible.

I don't agree with you. It was clear from scripture ,they were armed. What were they doing with swords. It was clear from scripture Jesus told them to get sword (disputed by you ). In response to Jesus request . They affirm they had two swords already. If Jesus was misunderstood,that's when he would have corrected them but rather he told them the two swords were enough. Confirming they understood one another . It was physical sword. Remember Jesus would not hesitate to correct if misunderstood as at other times . Just like the verses below.

CONCERNING LEAVEN OF THE PHARISEES
Matthew 16:6-8
6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? . . .11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

LAZARAUS CASE

John 11:11-14 (KJV)
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


Silence means consent

hopefulLandlord:
even they know the blood of their fictional Jesus can't protect them against shotgun bullet to the head

fictional Jesus powers can only work against fictional attacks like "Spiritual arrows of the enemy", "Spiritual poisons", " Enemies of my father's house", "Enemies from my father's house", " Spiritual bullets" etc

But many of you are suffering from such attack already.

randomperson:
U didn't answer my question. Does divine protection protect you from armed robbers, assassins and the likes?

Yes of course . Except if I don't get you

Ranchhoddas:
My question remains- For how long?

It depends on the case. Some are instant . Some may require a period to manifest . It depends on what the need is .

thorpido:
....AND

Then said Jesus unto Peter,Put up thy sword into the sheath...vs 11
The issue is not that they were not armed.The issue is also not the action of Simon Peter.
The issue here is Jesus' statement implying that they should be armed and fight.There is no Scripture or better still actions to support that.I hope you get the point.

Jesus said Peter will deny Him.Peter indeed denied him.However,Jesus didn't say His plan was for Peter to deny Him.So we're not talking about what any disciple did but what Jesus said and meant.

If I get your point well ,we agree Jesus asked them to be armed
But your point was that he didn't ask them to attack .is that your point ?

randomperson:
So divine protection saves u from accidents but is useless against armed robbers?

It does . It grants you wisdom .

Ranchhoddas:
It's the same point. You cannot rely on God for everything. You have to 'epp yourself'.

He guides you by wisdom. He crowns your effort with success. You can't do it without God. God also won't do it without you. That's the point

Let me give some verses to drive my point

Proverbs 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart;
and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Psalms 127:1
1 Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Psalms 144:1
1 Blessed be the Lord my strength,
which teacheth my hands to war,
and my fingers to fight:

Ranchhoddas:
So 'divine protection' is not really 'divine protection'Indeed the saying is true; ''Heaven helps those that help themselves''...even pastors.

You're getting me wrong. When I say divine protection gives you wisdom. Do you know what the wisdom of God is. If a man is meant to die in an accident and he changed his mind about entering the car . Or the conductor was even rude and he enters another car . And few minutes later he passed and see the car he left in flames every body dies . That's the wisdom of God that shielded him from entering the car. Same for business.

Ranchhoddas:
^^^Furthermore, how do you explain the fact that a popular MOG tells his members that wearing a certain apron would save them from all their security issues

I'm sure it's your own exaggeration. Or bloggers hearsay .It can't be from ."ALL SECURITY ISSUES" There's God part to security and man part also . No matter who you are . Firstly the just shall live by his own faith. Not mog faith. But Such protection prayers are or medium are against forces of darkness. They can be protected from death trap Satan has set for them. And actually many people have testimonies of miraculous escape .That doesn't mean you now leave your door open . Or drive a car without brake!

but turns around and hires heavily armed men for himself.

How many MOGs used police na . I can judge another man. If a man sense threat he should take measures. If Jesus could take measures . Who are we.

If the aprons are good enough for his members, why not him?

---

Gombs, Petra1

He protects himself by his faith .

Ranchhoddas:
Of what use then is divine protection?

Divine protection gives you wisdom and discretion.

When you attempt to use Peter's cutting off of someone's ear as justification, why do you always leave out the fact that Jesus rebuked him and said the could call down legions of angels to His rescue if He so desired?

---

This cherry-picking no good o!

The time Jesus needed to protect himself was over . He has submitted himself to die . So no need to carry sword.

thorpido:
That's the passage the Op quoted and asked a question about,isn't it?
It was a statement Jesus made and I said it was figurative.
I'm yet to see any passage where the use of the swords was expressed-before He died or later with His disciples.

Peter used sword . Where did he get it from? They were armed . But That's not point .

John 18:10 (KJV)
10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

Ranchhoddas:
What is the limit of faith? Or is it a belt to be worn indefinitely?

Faith is life . It's your conviction mindset based on your rights . Then also knowing the will of God in a situation.the problem is not on God side . He has given . But the man hasn't not received . The man need to know his posession then lay claim on it. It's not about shouting at God . Sometimes . Ignorance of our rights is the problem . Other times there could be a resistance from the enemy . The devil may have to be rebuked if not the miracle may not come . The person has to confess his rights over the issue .

Madukaele:
Must time i always feel like God prefers someone run to crazy, he enjoys seeing someone frustrated and out of the frustration you lose you temper with him then he listens and answers your prayer. Most time i come to God begging for a miracle he ignores but once i decide to take laws into my hands he now listens, my question, must you first get mad before God takes you serious, cant he help before the frustration overwhelms you?
Does God like been pushed around? does he enjoys pain? Must you always shout out of anger before he listen? if he does i dont understand. is funny.

You will be surprised GOD AINT MOVED BY YOUR ANGER AND FRUSTRATION. The power of God works through prayer of faith . Anything outside that is useless. God can't be manipulated by emotion or threat. He is till a God . You are the one that need to find the path of faith . Attend a faith teaching church . Read and listen to faith teaching materials . Your faith will be build

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


How to get faith

Romans 10:17 (KJV)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Madukaele:
Must time i always feel like God prefers someone run to crazy, he enjoys seeing someone frustrated and out of the frustration you lose you temper with him then he listens and answers your prayer. Most time i come to God begging for a miracle he ignores but once i decide to take laws into my hands he now listens, my question, must you first get mad before God takes you serious, cant he help before the frustration overwhelms you?
Does God like been pushed around? does he enjoys pain? Must you always shout out of anger before he listen? if he does i dont understand. is funny.

You will be surprised GOD AINT MOVED BY YOUR ANGER AND FRUSTRATION. The power of God works through prayer of faith . Anything outside that is useless. God can't be manipulated by emotion or threat. He is till a God . You are the one that need to find the path of faith . Attend a faith teaching church . Read and listen to faith teaching materials . Your faith will be build

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


How to get faith

Romans 10:17 (KJV)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

annunaki2:
As usual, quoting the bible out of context to support pious fraud.

The Bible speaks for itself Bro. It takes humility to take it in its simplicity

thorpido:
Scripture is what we have to follow,not just assumptions.
Can you quote any passage in the bible where Jesus or He with some people had to defend themselves with swords?

You read Luke 22:36 didn't you?

akintom:
There's a nazarene, called Jesus. On a particular day, after series of persecution from the Jews, especially the pharisees. Out of anger and vexation, Jesus said to his followers:

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: me to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

By the above outburst of Jesus, his followers became confused and disoriented. This affliction of the followers came from the earlier instructions to them:

Matthew 5:38 You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Matthew 5:39 But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Matthew 5:38 You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:


[color=#990000]Mark 14:47 And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.

Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus to him, Put up again your sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

In that same spirit of inconsistencies, appeared a certain apostle called Suleiman, he repeated what Jesus did. But unlike Jesus, this apostle denied ever asking his followers to sword the herdsmen.

Jesus attracted the wrath of Jews and Roman government. Subsequently, Jesus was taken out.

Since the introduction of sword into human relationships, by the nazarene (aka Jesus), any home, community or nation you find religion (eg Christianity), you will find strife, enmity, quarreling, assault, battery and murder.

You're wrong . There is no in inconsistencies . Every man has right to protect himself . But persecution is accepted . We suffer persecution. But we protect ourselfves from criminals

You don't have understanding of gen scriptures