₦airaland Forum

donnie:
I'm connected live and direct on ceflix. Wouldnt miss this one.

Donnie kindly post link to watch it. I also heard that Benny HINN face book or YouTube page streams well

Nice talk

openmine:

What are you even saying?
The scriptures you provided only seeks to validate my points that i have made so far....
Unfortunately,am yet to see in all the scriptures you provided where tithe is an "eternal principle"....
If the law could not make you righteous,or cud not make you perfect,then whats the essence of the law to you?


I was nodding my head that you have finally been able to convince urself about ur initial belief until i stumbled into ur highlighted statement..
Who told U dat U now have the ability to observe or do the law?
Am a 100% sure its not from the bible...or U just inserted it Just as U have been doing...
Bro in other words,you have now received the ability to burn more incense abi?
Cos burning of incense is contained in the law just like tithe...Guy U no try at all
Useless is Useless...worthless is worthless!
Find a worthy fabrication to defend ur tithe payment

Well i wish those appreciating have a bible and also study it too....

Good!
if a law can not make a man perfect or give eternal life,then whats its Usefulness?

In the old covenant,the gentiles are sinners
In the new covenant,both jews and gentiles are sinners Until they receive christ as deir lord and saviour!

I cant get U becos U are complicating yourself and rendering Ur beliefs as being weak....
I cant get U if Ur beliefs are based on human understanding rather than the bible...
I cant also get U if u keep making unsubstantiated statements like tithe being an eternal principle if U cant prove it..

Can I ask a simple question? What was the scripture that they used in Paul's day?

openmine:
Please point of correction,i did demonize the law...God did....and his word also proved it...

It's your interpretation that seem faulty

Romans 7:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

As for reasons why Paul kept quoting the laws,
Please observe the following scriptures from Paul....

I Corinthians 9:19 - 23
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the SAKE OF THE GOSPEL, that I may share in its blessings.

Once the foundation is faulty . Everything built on it will be faulty. Paul was quoting the law to Ephesians ! They weren't Jews!

Ephesians 6:2 (KJV Strong's)
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

Junia:
Im a lighthouse member
Fully devoted
They pay tithes but i don't

You're not a member there , you don't have a pastor . You can't say you're fully devoted and you don't do what is taught there . Just say you attend the service but not devoted .

Have you taken out time to ask your pastor clarification on tithes

Gombs:
How many times will you have to be schooled that tithing preceeded Levites, who Bible said paid tithes to Melchizedek through Abraham?

Hebrews 7:9 (KJV Strong's)
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Thank God for scriptures like this . They said would have maintained it's not tithe . It's war booty . They wanted to kill the evidence . Just as some people who wanted to kill Lazarus after Jesus raised him . .

John 12:10 (KJV Strong's)
10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;



Satan you can't put tithing to death . You can't put offerings to death .you can't put worship of God to death in the name of any strange doctrine

Gombs:
Abi o.. They can't understand why someone will go to church and give a tithe of 1 million naira...

You are looking from trouble now o. You want somebody to faint?

annunaki2:
The only thing peculiar about tithing in churches today is that it is deliberate pious fraud instigated against believers by the clergy that is supposed to be forthright.

Tithers are not complaining. They know the benefit of their giving. It's non givers who complain for givers

Secondly clergymen are the number 1 tithers and givers .let me tell you the money of clergy is not through tithe . What we give to God . Is used for the house of God .

A clearly man lives by what he preaches . He gives and receives. Clergy who doesn't give. Can't have . The allowance a full time clearly receive is minimal . Let's not go there .

CAPTIVATOR:
Its an insult to Gods word to add to it things that were not there all in a bid to justify tithing.


Again, no such thing as income appears in Matt 23:23 , it says they tithe herbs or agricultural produce NO mention of money or income
.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-23.htm

Firstly I have the right to my opinion just as you have right to your opinion . Why would you think your opinion is right and I'm wrong. Supposing you're wrong . Why not let us present our cases and point with humility and let the viewers decide . Why getting personal . That is fleshly and carnal . I can't force you to believe from my view . You are entitled to your view . I can only pray to God to open your understanding. Likewise you .

I should have thrown a lot of insults at some of you also but The principles of communication of the word of God which I uphold is revealed in the scripture below. Take heed to it

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (KJV Strong's)
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Junia:
To make them aware of the sin of dishonouring parents

They won't fulfill this by going back to the law of Moses

They will use the law of Christ

How ??
By loving their parents
You won't dishonour someone you love

Beautiful. But he quoted from the law. And recommended them to do it. So the law is not bad after all . It's the law of God. It contain principles for living. Why do you now get upset at the law . If Paul who you follow quote the law.

Can I ask you a question . Which scriptures were they reading in Paul's day.?

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV Strong's)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

James 1:22 (KJV Strong's)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves

When James says be doers of the word . What word was he talking about ?

openmine:
That scripture is explicit and clear as daylight...U are d one that refuses to see it...
Did U see any where it was written that its "not in content"?
My issue with You and other tithe preachers is that U lack scripture backing for ur preposterous theories...

Romans 10:4 (KJV Strong's)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Because the Jews sought righteousness through the law.

Philippians 3:9(KJV Strong's)
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

You see the Jews wanted righteousness and perfection by it . Jesus testified same thing too

John 5:39 (KJV Strong's)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


Hope my point is clearer now. The law is useless if you go to it to be righteous. It you're made righteous by faith. The Jews lack the ability to keep the law because of the sin nature . Now we have received ability to do it.

hence no one takes you serious any more...
Putting up Ur own words to what is already clear only means U have ulterior motives...

People actually take me very seriously I receive several mails in appreciation. I'm hoping you will, soon

Hebrews 7:18

The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was WEAK and USELESS

Useless in the ability to perfect a man. Or give eternal life

Thats for a sinner but not for a new convert or believer

Who is the sinner ? Jew or gentile ?

Another question...based on verse 8,do U know that if u break a law,You are guilty of ALL the LAWS?

That's when you seek righteousness by the law. One sin is bad enough . I get you you're correct ,but try get me too

Its obvious U are trying to be evasive and dishonest!![/quote

Fruits of the spirit brother . No need for anger. Just re present your question .

[quote]If You said U missed the question,then it says much about ur inability not to learn Or maybe U r afraid of the questions...
Well...am going to be generous enough to offer U one of the questions while waiting for the rest...
One more time... Provide me with scriptures on tithe being an eternal principle?
If U dont know, Just be honest and humble enough to admit that you dont Know...simple

Leave that one between me and God . He knows the heart .

If the law is as demonized as you paint it . Is ask again why would Paul and the other apostle be quoting the laws

Junia:
You can quote the law to teach because it reveals sin
You can teach on tithing from the law
But we are not under the law

Eg. According to the law, God is against sexual immorality

So from the law we know God is against it

So according to the law of Christ we should love

And we know in Christ God lives in us therefore our bodies are His temple

So what do we do ??
Because we love Him we will not destroy our bodies through sexual immoralities

From this
I quoted the law to be aware of what God doesn't like
But i didn't follow the law of Moses
I followed the law of Christ

Why did Paul quote the law .

openmine:
He called the law weak and useless....a law that cud not draw him close to his people...a law that alienated his people from him..
Such worthless law can not be applicable to believers in christ...

Weak and useless not in content . Weak and useless to bring justification. The law is good as long a sin you're not seeking it for justification.

Even peter rebuked some jews who wanted to make newly converted gentiles to obey the law of moses...
Acts 15:1 -12

Check the rebuke every condemnation has to do with justification.

Acts 15:1 (KJV Strong's)
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


The law is good for reference . Without the law you will have no knowledge of right and wrong

You wished for some honesty when at every turn and twist,you keep evading my questions?
Amazing

Except I missed the question . And I don't mind you bring them up again

Junia:
And we are no longer under the lawSo we just love everybody That is what God demands

But Paul made reference to the law and not to christ.

Read this below

Ephesians 6:2-3 (KJV Strong's)
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Hope you will be honest to admit the point I'm making

Junia:
It is right for Christians because we are under the of Christ and that law demands love
So i will honour my parents because i love them

But the law says so . Hope you're getting my point

CAPTIVATOR:
Further evidence of Fraud!

Mind your language . I don't converse with those who act naughty . Gods word doesn't require insult

openmine:
HEBREWS 7:11 - 20

11 The people were given the law under the system of priests from the tribe of Levi. But no one could be made spiritually perfect through that system of priests. So there was a need for another priest to come. I mean a priest like Melchizedek, not Aaron.

12 And when a different kind of PRIEST comes, THEN THE LAW MUST BE CHANGED TOO

13-14 We are talking about our Lord Christ, who belonged to a different tribe. No one from that tribe ever served as a priest at the altar. It is clear that Christ came from the tribe of Judah. And Moses said nothing about priests belonging to that tribe.


15 And these things become even clearer when we see that another priest has come who is like Melchizedek.

16 He was made a priest, but not because he met the requirement of being born into the right family. He became a priest by the power of a life that will never end.

17 This is what the Scriptures say about him: “You are a priest forever—the kind of priest Melchizedek was.”

18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless. 19 The Law of Moses could not make anything perfect. But now a better hope has been given to us. And with that hope we can come near to God.

20 Also, it is important that God made a promise with an oath when he made Jesus high priest. When those other men became priests, there was no oath.

The condemnation of the law is not its content . Many principles of Gods kingdom are contained in the law. It's the law of God . It reaveals Gods mind about issues of life. The condemnation of the law is its inability to make a man righteous . Except he has eternal life . But having eternal life doesn't throw away the principles of the kingdom of God. That's why I asked you the question . I had wished for some honesty

openmine:

I asked You tonnes of questions and you haven't answered and you want me to answer urs...?

I'm downloading the translation.if we can agreee on a translation fine by me . I will attend to your post when I'm done

openmine:
My apologies
ERV (EASY TO READ) VERSION
If you are in need of more scriptures or more translations,i will provide it for you!

Thanks . And to my last question . . . .waiting

openmine:
HEBREWS 7:11 - 20

11 The people were given the law under the system of priests from the tribe of Levi. But no one could be made spiritually perfect through that system of priests. So there was a need for another priest to come. I mean a priest like Melchizedek, not Aaron.

12 And when a different kind of PRIEST comes, THEN THE LAW MUST BE CHANGED TOO

13-14 We are talking about our Lord Christ, who belonged to a different tribe. No one from that tribe ever served as a priest at the altar. It is clear that Christ came from the tribe of Judah. And Moses said nothing about priests belonging to that tribe.


15 And these things become even clearer when we see that another priest has come who is like Melchizedek.

16 He was made a priest, but not because he met the requirement of being born into the right family. He became a priest by the power of a life that will never end.

17 This is what the Scriptures say about him: “You are a priest forever—the kind of priest Melchizedek was.”

18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless. 19 The Law of Moses could not make anything perfect. But now a better hope has been given to us. And with that hope we can come near to God.

20 Also, it is important that God made a promise with an oath when he made Jesus high priest. When those other men became priests, there was no oath.

If you're quoting. A translation kindly cite what translation pls. Also while at it . Can you have a look at scripture below.

Exodus 20:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


I will like you also to answer . Is it right for Christians to honor parents

Junia:
The same Matthew 23:23 you used
Check the last part

Quote it out where he said tithing is a law . While you're doing that I want you to look at this scripture

Exodus 20:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


QUESTION: Is it right or wrong for Christians to honor their parents

.

Junia:
Why didnt you add the remaining which says it is a law
Jesus called tithing a law

Where did he call it a law. Quote it out

annunaki2:
Is it the same one off tithe of war booty that Abraham gave to melchizedek that is an eternal principle? if that's the case, based on this "eternal" principle, we should tithe only once in our lifetime.

Having only one incidence recorded doesn't make it a one time action. Secondly even if it is a once in a life time . The principle still stand . Abraham was recorded to have prayed once . Does that nullify prayers ? It's a principle of the kingdom. Prayers being mentioned in the law does not demonize prayer . Offering is there Why is it tithe that it's only tithe that is fought against . It shows there is something peculiar about it. And it's only God that knows why .

CAPTIVATOR:
That Abraham did something doesnt make it binding on Christians for example : he circumcised his whole household Yet Circumcision is not binding on Christians .

Christ fulfilled circumcisiom . And it was spelt out. It's not every detail of the law that' applicable . Neither every detail are principles .

CAPTIVATOR:
Matthew5:23 he taught on it , Do u still gift sacrifices on the altar ?

If Read my earlier posts. What christ fulfilled is not applicable . But the principles are still applicable . I may not offer burnt sacrifice . But God still receive my prayer, my work of service or my ficnancial giving as burnt sacrifice.

Even that Matthew 23:23 mentioned that the tithes are herbs or agricultural produces NOT money

They don't give tithes and offerings of perishable things . They sell them and give tithes of the income .

Matthew 23:23 (NLT)
23 For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

The same Jesus support circumcision Read John 7:22-24, Yet its not binding on Christians ,

What christ fulfilled is spelt out in scripture . It's fulfilled in christ at salvation

Nowhere do we read that preachers of the goodnews demand tithes from their fellow Christians .

Why are you attacking tithes . What about offering ? Why are you not attacking offering . What about alms to the poor . What about honoring your parents . Has christ fulfilled those ? Preachers are tithers and givers. Not collectors .

Seun:
If the tongues were meant only for Sinach's personal edification (though since Sinach herself did not understand what she was saying, it's hard to imagine exactly how she was being "edified" by the tongues), then why was she led by the spirit to record the tongues in her video?

The Bible says in 1 Corper 14:28 one can speak to oneself (in tongues)and to God that's what she did . If it's a message for all . She will interpret.

There is not much that can be explained to you. You know christian things are for Christians .

1 Corinthians 2:16(KJV Strong's)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

OlaoChi:
That is a very fitting illustration

Abraham is a jewish ancestor not African. How his life is supposed to be a model to an African is completely absurd

He's our ancestor also . He's our father of faith .

Galatians 3:14 (KJV Strong's)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

openmine:
Okay I get U now but am still waiting for scriptures about "tithe being an eternal principle"....pardon me for bringing it up,but I just want to ensure dat aspect is nipped in d bud..tanks!!
please don't forget to add scriptures to back ur assumptions,Thanks!

It's just a simple common sense , except you Just want to do entrapment (no offense) principles don't have end .

Is there a scripture that says there's an end to tithes and offering?

Psalms 110:4(KJV Strong's)
4 . . Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

there is also a portion where he called the tithes ordinance forever or so which I'm trying to remember .

CAPTIVATOR:
this response really shocked me, you know why: Because the scripture we are discussing actually says those who preach the gospel . hehehehehe thread closed with the bold , now If Jesus is the pastor, show me where he collect tithes even quoting malachi 3:10 ?

With the bold, this thread should be closed, Jesus sent all his disciples out to evangelise , YEs or No ?

If Jesus taught that men should pay tithes . It shows his endorsement. That is all that counts. There's no place where God spoke against tithing. Jesus blood didn't pay for it either . His blood only made him highpriest over our tithes

CAPTIVATOR:

" So stay in that house, eating and drinking the things they provide, for the worker is worthy of his wages " - Luke 10:7


Was Jesus reffering to tithe in this Instruction ?

They were only disciples not the pastors. Members of the church sent out to evangelise don't go about collecting offerings or tithes. There has to be an institution. Remember Jesus had tresurer. So it's not everyone to be going about collecting money .

openmine:
My bro am not willing to go down that path with you...
We are not discussing science or "word usage"...
Please direct ur assumptions using the bible...
Like i said,it will be beneficial...
This should be the 10th time i asked for a scripture quotation from every "assumption" U have made...
You cannot prove anything without the word...shey u know that?

Righteousnes makes you right by faith and gives you the ability to live right . Righteousness is a gift but we have Christians who ,kill ,steal 419. Adultery as a lifestyle. But they speak in tongues you see. living out the manifestation of the nature is your responsibility. That's vital experience.

1 John 2:29 (KJV Strong's)
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7-8 (KJV Strong's)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

That's why Jesus warned

Matthew 7:23 (KJV Strong's)
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.