₦airaland Forum

[quote author=paxonel post=89512237]they ignorantly claimed to be delivered.[\quote]

It means they were not "delivered"

Like I said, i was ignorant too[\quote]

Means you were inexperienced. You just did trial and error. Young men zeal kind of things . It's nice though . .


[quote]so i believe them. but the truth is they never had any evil spirit, one of them specifically said I prayed for him and he was delivered from a financial mess which he was very sure that the root of the problem was attack from his village. but after that, he executed a failed contract with a well known company in Lagos which further plunged him into a huge dept.

It's not every case that requires such ministrations . The first time you minister to this guy what was his problem. Was there any manifestation or observation while praying for him . How did you confirm he was free.

I soon conducted a personal investigation to ascertain what went wrong only to discover that he boycotted a lot of guidelines and contract laws governing the company and was actually dealing with the wrong client who duped him.

It doesn't matter. As much as I know that all cases are not demonic . Some may just need counseling and teaching and personal discipline . But a lot of cases are demonic and you may not know the diffence except by discernment or experience . Are you aware that even the so called "dealing with wrong client and boycotting guidelines could be spiritually originated . When a man experience demonic attack it can come in any direction. DAVID was moved by the devil to count isreal . And 70,000 men died because of it

1 Chronicles 21:1 (KJV)
1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.


You could have called it just a mistake but it was ochestrated by devil and a protected nation lost 70,000 lives

Devils influenced Ananias to lie and lost his life

Acts 5:3
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

a strong desire to show that miracles work in that ministry.

Testimonies inspires faith

sometimes they are paid by the ministry to act[\quote]

Very unnecessary except a man is not called . Even ordinary members perform miracles as the Bible taught us.


[quote]therefore they are of God and cannot possibly be tormented by any evil spirit.

Wrong, ask Ananias that. Secondly I will ask you , do Christians fall sick ? . I believe your answer will be yes. Now I will tell you that most ailment are demonic . That's why I tell you that casting out devils are part of healing ministry . Because to heal people most of the time all you need do is cast the devil responsible out and then minister healing . Sometimes you may not need to minister healing because once the demon goes out dime people just get healed .

there is no one in the bible that was prayed for, and was delivered of evil spirit, that was a Christian.
.

Sin do open demonic doors in the life of Christians and they can be oppressed or tormented .

James 5:16
16 Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

Find out you will discover that this is true.
It's either the person was a gentile worshipping idols or was a Jew practicing judaism. (As at that time there was nothing like Islam on earth.)
;DYou people are funny o!
See, if you want to tell me that if you preach to and unbeliever who perhaps may have evil spirit and he accept Christ and he is baptized with the holy ghost which eliminate the evil spirit in him that would have deprived him of believing in Christ and be saved, I will hear you.

But telling me that casting out devils is part of healing, that is not true.
Because, i can tell you that we have a lot of atheists today, they are not sick, they don't need any healing, yet the spirit in them that made them constantly to deny the existence of God is not of God.
So, healing cannot possibly by part or deliverance or deliverance part of healing.

Let me leave all these remaining part for now because my above posts should have answered you.

Kobojunkie:
Even animals express faith to a significant extent than men do.

Faith in the word of God bu animals. Kindly show it from scripture

Kenny4lyfe:
In as much as it is true that our government are dishing out reports of "audio covid-19 cases". let's not rule out the prevalent deaths amidst the political elites lately as well as the "mysterious death" that's ravaging some part of northern Nigeria. Covid-19 is out there. Figures might be over exaggerated though.

Government should carry out autopsy before concluding wbeey death is covid related . Firstly we have fake diagnosis going on ,secondly we have reports of faulty test equipments that can even label pawpaw covid-19 positive

That's satan Plan and part of the conspiracy to put the entire globe under chain for years. 2 weeks lockdown extended to four weeks then 2 months . Then economy ,then gradually start opening which will take years . New laws will be made on social gathering

OpenYourEyes1:
Will he go around telling people that "the church is closed" or move the actual church to safe place/places?

They were told by Government not to meet or preach or mention Jesus . they did at the risk of their lives . Padilla himself was smashing churches before God arrested him. If you must follow every law you won’t serve christ

kingxsamz:
Have you gone for test and it came out positive?
Did any of your friends and Family go for test and they came out positive?

There are numerous cases of this . I have people detained illegal for covid with false diagnosis , they have to make one pay heavy bribe to be released with his family


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqYpCDo9HK0

topedoski:
Wen corona don dey Bleep with offering and church attendance

Wrong we are still giving offerings online .

Wrong video

Bishop is right , the whole drama is about the church in disguise . The rulers of nations are not aware of the forces behind it, they themselves are victims and puppets in the hand of these force.

paxonel:
what you saw is hoax, it isn't real. I was there before, i even conducted deliverance for people out of ignorance.

The people you conducted deliverance for ,were they delivered?

See, everything you hear people saying that they were possessed of one spirit or the other is a thing of the mind.
At that moment they were saying this, they were not in their right state of mind i kind prove that to you.

What took over their mind if not evil spirit

How can a Christian saying he is possessed or tormented by an evil spirit contrary to what scriprure says?

Possession and torment are two different things . A christian cannot be possessed by evil spirit . Possession means ownership . However a christian can be tormented or oppressed by the enemy for several reasons which are open doors

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Can you explain the relevance of the above .

Only Muslims or people of other religions have not confessed that Jesus is the Christ but only christians do. And non of those delivered in churches who claimed they have evil spirit tormenting them are Muslims or people practicing religions other than Christianity or do you see any Muslim being delivered in churches like mountain of fire and other churches which is known for fake deliverance?

Think!

Firstly it s dangerous and wrong to be praying for deliverance for muslims and other uncoverted people. Casting out devil is a part of healing ministry . A man has to be saved before you minister healing or "deliverance to him. Healing is the Chilren bread not for outsiders . If you deliver him ,he may die sepoon because he doesn't have the capacity to maintain his freedom from the devil.

A thousand and one time . Some cases there was vindications and some you just move on. It doesn't really matter . You can't convince everyone . You take it as part of life . Enlarge. Your heart and move especially when you have a bigger picture . Many people believed jesus was fraud till they died .

Matthew 27:62 (KJV)
62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

John 7:12 (NLT)
12 There was a lot of grumbling about him among the crowds. Some argued, “He’s a good man,” but others said, “He’s nothing but a fraud who deceives the people.”

Every sin is forgivable if a man repent except he commits the umpadonabke sin unto death which is apostasy

1 John 5:16-17 (ASV)
16 If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.


This sin is not committed by mistake . It's a withdrawal unto,perdition

Persecution is bread to the christian . Martyrdom is height of persecution. It's not unto God for his satisfaction but the conscience of the men who lay their lives down willingly . Many have the option of escape but they made their choice to die for their belief . God didn't send killers

Hebrews 11:33-36 (NLT)
33 By faith these people overthrew kingdoms, ruled with justice, and received what God had promised them. They shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the flames of fire, and escaped death by the edge of the sword. Their weakness was turned to strength. They became strong in battle and put whole armies to flight. 35 Women received their loved ones back again from death.
But others were tortured, refusing to turn from God in order to be set free. They placed their hope in a better life after the resurrection. 36 Some were jeered at, and their backs were cut open with whips. Others were chained in prisons.

[quote author=Commonsense99 post=89496387]Bishop Gerald O. Glenn, of New deliverance evangelistic Church in United States had defied instructions to go in and pray for COVID-19 patient's, today he is of blessed memory...yes, he died of same covid19 and is buried(Google it) .

Pastor of shincheonji Church in Korea had defied social distancing to hold prayers for covid19 patients #31, eventually Korea cases exploded from his church, such that they accused him of mass murder, he was sued, and excaped death by hanging by whiskers.. Korea is still suffering from his misbehavior at the moment(Google it) .[\quote]

There are zeals without knowledge . There are individuals with gift of healing . No man take the honor upon himself . Whatever God calls you to do ,the anointing of that call protects you .

Luke 10:19
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

I've had. Had case of Ebola healed and other ailments . And if I'm allowed to minister to the sick there . I will follow medical procedure by using protection. The Ebola case I didn't touch him . I only stretch my hand and rebuke the spirit of death and he fell down and was healed .

. So you think what makes me an umbeliever is because I try to reason common sense into your religious mind

Maybe I just assumed by your post

paxonel:
The only foundational battle anyone could have is ignorance. When that person is educated in that aspect he doesn't know from that point he is delivered.
There is nothing like any spirit manipulating people's destiny.
There is nothing like evil spirit tormenting people, they are all scam.

HedwigesMaduro:
So, what happens to "If a man is in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away; all things have become new"? Except you are saying the scriptures are lying (God forbid).

I understand with the op. Whe might not have used the best terminology. But there's truth in his statement. I've seen minsters demonized and tormented by devils. They pray in tongues , minister to others yet they have to be ministered to sometimes .

Commonsense99:

What kind of prayers were you trying to offer that you coudnt offer from the gate or your apartment? Didn't the bible tell us that God is a spirit? Or are you a god that wants to touch COVID-19 patient? What exactly is wrong with Africans.. I mean this is 2020!
.

the thread is for christians. its a chrisian thing to pray for the sick. some of us have been going for hospital ministrations right from teenage years and we have seen God healing the sick

Mark 16:18
18. . . . they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Kobojunkie:
BullPiss! Babies have their own faith.

The scripture doesn't support that ideology. If it's so there's no need to preach to anyone . Since all would have faith in God by birth. Faith comes by hearing

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

dulux07:
Some of you are just ignorant. Are u in the medical field?
Why should they allow an healthy person into a clinic that contain people with infectious disease.
.

I wore the mask . All I would expect is that they recommend I wear the hazmat suit . Patapata I pay for it. Or wear gloves . After all. someone is giving the patients there food and and water

HedwigesMaduro:
What about the centurion's servant?

You're right there are different principles for different cases. In such a case as the centurion servant someone has to be in the gap.. The centurion faith stood in the gap . It's like the case of a woman with a baby . The baby may not have faith. But the faith of the mother can suffice.

But the case of covid here . There has to be a connection with the people.

double08:
Was listening to the pastor yesterday in church and while he was preaching he said "the Lord spoke to me" it got me thinking how do God speak to a pastor and who do you know God's voice?

Hearing from God is not suppose to be peculiar to Pastors only . Everyone Christian is supposed to hear from God . "
"my sheep hear my voice "

butterfly777:
You can pray for people without laying hands on them, and God will still heal them.

1. You can pray for them on phone

2. You can pray on water or anointing oil and send to them to use.

3. You can pray on clothes or handkerchief and send to them.

4. You can pray for anybody anywhere by mentioning their names. If you don't know the names, refer to them somehow. God knows the person you're referring to and He answers prayers.

Personally, I have had the grace of praying for people I don't know, and who don't know me. They didn't even know that I prayed for them. And God does wonders.

Let's pray anywhere. Physical touch is not compulsory for to the healing to be ministered.

Well there are religious prayers and ministering to people. When you minister to people you need to connect with them and they need to connect with you . We can do intercession as well from other location .but different cases require different ministration. Primarily to lay hands on the sick secondarily to stretch hand and a last option is to bless other objects like handkerchiefs, water etc . But the results may differ .

Mark 16:18
. . . . they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover

annyplenty:
[b]INSTRUCTIONS

TAKE ALL YOUR ANSWERS FROM LUKE 14:1-24

Can't I use other verses

solite3:
Thank you very much, yes I meant persecution.
But again the church has gone through tribulations
Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The seven years tribulation is not the only tribulation in the bible.

The op clearly made a case for pre tribulation rapture, the seven years tribulation will not come to pass until the church age is over.

Okay ,i guess I misunderstood you

I said earlier that it's not true that Christian's are afraid of praying for covid cases . But the issue is access

I also went to a covid -19 hospital to pray for the "sick " but from the gate the security asked for my mission I told them, they made calls and said it's not allowed.

I almost left but I went back to ask for opportunity again . They called another official who asked if I'm going to lay hands on them , I said yes if I'm allowed. He said I can't be allowed in . I asked what if i go in and just stretch my hand to pray for each one without touching. They made calls again And said it's not allowed. They said I should pray at the gate . I could not argue much because it's a military environment

Finally I told them I came with packs of bottled water and asked to give them as contribution, they declined at first but later asked me to open the boot , I did they too pictures and asked if it's a prayer water I said "NO " but I can pray over it in the packs of water in their presence. That was what I eventually did .

As I said before . It's not about the church going to pray but it's about permission by government. If you know a convid centre that will allow prayer for the sick I will still appreciate.

solite3:
The great tribulation is different from tribulations which the church has being going through

Maybe your use of the term tribulation is what made the write up a little confusing. I think you could have used persecution rather . Because there is one major tribulation prophesied in the bible which is the 7year tribulation after the rapture. Which is divided into two 3 and half years each . The second part of the 7 years is called Great Tribulation.

Now what made the write up confusing is that there are 3 schools of thoughts about the tribulation and rapture.

1. POST TRIBULATION RAPTURE
believe the church will go through the whole 7years of Tribulation and then rapture takes place. ( they see rapture and second coming of christ as same )

2. MID TRIBULATION RAPTURE

Teaches that the church will go through half of the tribulation but not the great tribulation. And the rapture will take place before the 2nd half (that's what your post suggests to me )

3 PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
Teaches that the church will neither see Tribulatuon at all . The rapture will take place before the tribulation

So when you say the church has been going through tribulation. It suggests you hold the opinion of mid tribulation rapture .

But If that's not your opinion . I would have suggested you use the term "PERSECUTION " for what the church has been going through.

Churches are healing centers. Government news the churches except if what they are looking for is not healing

solite3:
please read op again.
Yes the seven years tribulation start after Rapture.

When you say the church is already going through the tribulation it gives impression that the rapture has taken place

johnw47:
fool, if i wanted to talk to someone about religion and science
it wouldn't be with a know nothing like yourself, you can't even get my username right

solite3:
yes the church had being going through tribulations but not the great tribulation.

According to the Bible The 7 year tribulation starts after the rapture

solite3:
yes that is what I said.

You said the church is already going through tribulation