₦airaland Forum

nelszx:
Carry out a study and find out if this claim is true
Well you can open a lab but the constitution states your license is quite useless to run one. Your rights are unconstitutional so you need a license to run your own hospital lab cos mlscn accredits and regulates labs attached to clinics lol

The guy keep fooling himself. Tell him to quote the section of the MDCN act that empowers him to run his fake lab and he'll go mute like a sitting duck.

nelszx:
Often times I stay off posts like this but I can't sit and keep quiet when they keep lying in broad daylight. They need not put off ones candle to make their own bright. I have countered him on similar thread but yet they resort to insults when presented with fact. I have Drs as friend but there's nothing more glorious than respect even when coming from a "stupid" person.
MrBigiMan is my friend but it doesn't mean I will fold my arm to his unfounding lies.

Just ignore him. He is lame and will continue to lament about JOHESU personalities instead of facing issues squarely. We'll continue to prove to them that Medical Scientists are not mediocres. That most of us are introverted by nature doesn't mean we won't expose their ignorance when they litter the cyberspace with their tissues of lies.

More Scientists need to start speaking up. More ink to our pen.

MrBigiman:
Every morning when u wake up Nelson, look in the mirror and scream "Nigeria is a shit hole country" at least 5 times, because it's only in Nigeria this madness occurs. We will be laughed at all over the world, but we prefer to roll on shit. Keep wallowing in deep sitten mediocrity!

Medical Scientists accredit laboratories all over the world where normal humans exist from US to Canada, to Aussie, Ireland, New zealand, Japan. You name it.

This is the information age, just a 5 sec google search will reveal it. The problem is that you have choosen to see the truth but believe the lies your failed superiors tell you in classrooms and nma meetings so you can sleep well at night. Your problem.

The Medical Scientist remains the oracle in medical practice in general and the medical laboratory remains his primary contituency.

nelszx:
First thing is do you even have the mdcn act?
Even these labs you've mentioned were only recently accredited by MLSCN (which they gladly put on display) with ISO 15009 status (does that tell you anything?). They can be headed by anybody (choice of preference) but when it comes to the law, it must be followed to the letter.

cc: phase1

Thanks for the heads up. We must continue to educate them lest they misrepresent our dear profession.

Why did yorubas lament when GEJ call Igbos his political backbone?

MrBigiman:
Boss TempoJames, pls don't ever pass knowledge to these technicians even in the form of arguments. I make sure not to do it. I have had several contacts with scientists and their esteem is unhealthy.

We had an interview few months back while shopping for a Lab Scientist, and I asked one of them to introduce herself. And she said she is a Chemical Pathologist after telling us her name. Of course I saw that she wasn't taken as such a egocentric fool will be a liability to our facility. Keep it up bro. I am honoured to have u speak the truth.

If that Scientist has a fellowship like FRCPATH in in the UK which is also open to Medical Scientist in the UK or (MLS) FASCP in the USA she has every right to introduce herself as a cheminal pathologist. Pathology is a study also open to medical scientists it is not a title.

There are physician-pathologists and Scientist-pathologists. If she has the qualifications, she has right to introduce herself as such.

The former Registrar of MLSCN Prof. Emeribe is a Scientist and a holder of FRCPATH in Haematology which is a field of pathology. You cant win him in court if you sue him for using a qualification he has properly earned and calling himself a haematologist.

Prof. Ngokere is a reputable Medical Scientist-
histopathologist. Many of your senior colleagues went through him during training. Google up his numerous publications in international journals.

In UK Gary Moore is a consultant Biomedical Scientist, and a reputable haematologist (which is a field of pathology). There are many of them there.

There are many Nigerian medical scientists who are fellows in the UK Royal college of pathology (FRCPATH) and FASCP. They are haematologists, Chemical pathologists, histopathologists, Medical microbiologists, which are all fields of pathology.

The UK Royal college of pathology and US ASCP are not in Nigeria where ego-conscious physicians who feel intimidated by knowledgeable Scientists have bastardized the system.

Good a thing Nigerians have passed the National postgraduate college of medical lab science (NAPCMLS) bill into law.

Even if I plaster it on your face and hang it on your neck it wouldn't change anything. You can google it yourself. I'm sure you don't suffer 'googlephobia'.

The article was published sometime in 2013 where talked about Vibro choleraand Gonorrhea (if I remember correctly). It was really a shame a so-called physician-'pathologist' could make such gaffe on national tabloid. I bet he read the hilarous critism of Scientists (whom he was antagonizing) then and stopped writing.

TempoJames:
You brought the values 1/47 and 1/73. Then I handled them seperately. That should tell u that I am quiet aware they are seperate results.
You type like a wounded soul. I indicated widal test has both Acute and convalescent titre or you can call it paired sera but your liquefactive brain keeps exuding ignorance.
Now show me the article where a consultant said N.gonorrhea is gram +ve. Idiot!

Calm your emotions Mr wardman. You certified the widal results as correct and I'm sure you've generated such and given to patients in your fake side lab. My fundamental duty as a health professional is to protect patients from your quackery in the lab.

This intellectual tit-for-tat is to expose and bare all for Nigerians to see your fakery and how it cost them lives. This is a public forum and Nigerians are reading and documenting.

TempoJames:
Show me the article and stop how idiotic you are.

Even if I plaster it on your face and hang it on your neck it wouldn't change anything. You can google it yourself. I'm sure you don't suffer 'googlephobia'.

The article was published sometime in 2013 where talked about[i] Vibro cholera[/i] and Gonorrhea (if my remember correctly). It was really a shame a so-called pathologist could make such gaffe on national tabloid. I bet he read the hilarous critism of Scientists (whom he was antagonizing) then and stopped writing.

TempoJames seriously most of you are just overglorified dolts like I've maintained and your response is lame period. You goofed, admit it and learn but like most of you, You'd rather the patient dies than admit you are numbskulls even when corrected.

Nigerians need to wake up and ask real questions when patients die due to your malpractices. The day they wake up is day many of you will go bankrupt and end up in prison clothes instead of lab coats after your lawyers have milked you dry trying to defend your malpractices.

If you were as intelligent as you posit, you would have simply typed the words 'Acute widal titres' and shown us journals where your ridiculous figures were confirmed. If you were able to get those figures in your fake laboratory, how then was the measurement done? What methodology did you adopt? These are scientific questions that only a properly trained scientist can answer.

You see why you must be kept in your consulting rooms far away from the lab? Don't give up, keep trying to prove that an 'ordinary techinician' (Lol) like me has more intellect than you. I welcome it.

Moronic wardman!

This guy reminds me of one Enabulele former NMA chairman who wrote a published article on the Sun and mentioned that Vibrio Cholera is a Gram positive bacteria sometime ago.

I thought it was just a little mistake until he mentioned it 4 times within the body of that article in a national newspaper. Enabulele claims to be a physician-pathologist who should head the Scientist but I bet you if you put a microscope before him he wouldn't be able to mount a slide properly and focus it.

Even a 300l Scientist in training will tell you all the Gram negative and Gram postive organisms if he jumps off from his bed and faces that question.

More reason why these physicians must be kept away from the laboratory as far as possible.

0key2:
Good response bro! Are you a pathologist? You are well knowledgeable!

Stop giving that quack a pat on the back till he shows us a journal where agglutinin titres of 1/47 and 1/73 were obtained during Widal studies. He is not talking to morons. You can also help him too.

I hold an M.sc and an FIBMS(UK) and I challenge him to show us how to obtain titre values of 1/47 which then 'doubles' to 1/73 titre in the obviously fake laboratory result he is defending. This is ridiculous! Oh my God!

TempoJames:
You see why you can never be better than a pathologist? I guess u never knew there is Acute and convalescent titre in widal test. What u technicians are taught is only the convalescent titre so it is either the patient has 1/160 or nothing. Idiots! You were never taught that u can get 1/20 as acute titre then if it rises to 1/80 after 2weeks(convalescent) then there is a 4fold rise and is significant.
Glorified technician! You ought to pay me for this lecture.
You never knew what causes most results to be upto 1/160 to1/340 is that most px present late so u catch them mostly at d convalescent(chronic) stage of typhoid. U see what differentiates a doc from a johesuite? A doctor thinks outside textbook. Outside Africa where px present early to d hospital u seldom see titre upto to 1/160....I know over here a glorified chief lab technician could be quick to rule out typhoid. Idiots!
Why px run away is that they don't like doing repeat widal when the result is below 1/160 .They go to a lab technician that tells them what they want to hear. A lab technician that will erroneous declare them negative n they go home treating stubborn malaria till they breakdown with pathognomic signs like Rosespots n intestinal perforations n run back to the hospital spreading falsehood that Nigerian doctors are quacks. The same doctor that is leading outside Africa where px follows the acumen of the doctor religiously.
E.g that result wic is 1/47 is the acute titre...if u repeat widal after 2weeks u may see 1/188 showing a 4-fold rise, if d px is actually +ve ....if its not up to 1/188 only then can u rule out typhoid. Lab technicians don't know this.
Standard practise is that u repeat widal after 2 weeks if it is not upto 1/160 n check for 4-fold rise. Boy!

You are empty headed, widal titre values are gotten in double dilution values. ie 1/20, 1/40, 1/80, 1/160, 1/320. In endemic areas 1/80-
1/160 is usually adopted as significant values after studies are done on endemicity within that area.

What methodology did you adopt in your fake laboratory to obtain a titre value of 1/47 which then doubles to 1/72. Do you even know the meaning of double dilutions of agglutinnin titres?

Attached below is a study of widal titre values published in a reputable clinical Journal about endemic areas. Where the hell does it say you get a titre value of 1/47 and 1/73 in double dilutions. Mr man shut that your fake side lab, you've been murdering patients.

NOETHNICITY:
All these fake bloggers trying to stoke ethnic acrimony among Nigerians, aren't you ever gonna stop?
While ur real intention is to pitch southerners against Muslim North you forget that not all of us are ignorant of the fact that Kwara, benue, Kogi, Taraba and plateau are all part of the North.
Again, we know for a fact that the recruitment exercise was done to favor all local government of Nigeria. And as such, it's only natural that the north which has more states(including the states mentioned above) than the south will produce more candidates.

#StopTheBigotry

Eru abooki. SMH

Omololu007:
This country needs to be divided, when will southern leaders start making moves for the disintegration of this country

Countries like Benin republic,Ghana and Togo are now better than Nigeria

Your yoruba muslims can start the process if they are sincere to themselves.

Divide the country and have your peace. Use your heads.

MrBigiman:
Tempojames is doing daunting job. It's difficult informing a helpless ignoramus. Seeing mild fluid collection in the POD and screaming PID has always being the way of radiographers, yet they moved from hospital to hospital trying to stop Doctors from carrying out sonography. It took their leaders being locked up at least 2ice before they retreated to their shops.

In Ondo, the state chapter of AMLSCN had the guts to seal a pathologist owned lab. The seal was removed and a fracas ensued, as thuggery is a silent weapon of Lab technicians. Thank goodness the Nigerian mobile police were responsible enough to arrest those hoodlums parading as union leaders. They never went close to that Lab again.

Nigerians will get wiser soon. Many are. A patients said "Doctor treat me jare, when I visit the lab now they will either say it's staph, coliform or Candida, I can't waste my money on them again"

From experience Patient who run to the lab must have wasted money in physician clinics who extort them without doing any form of investigation and when they claim to have done they'll simply pocket the money and refuse to give the patient a copy of the result as they don't want their quackeries exposed.

There are occasions where I saw a widal tests result with 1/73, 1/47 titre values emanating from a hospital run by physicians. Laugh no gree me abeg.

If not for ethical issues I would have posted some of the ridiculous results herein.

TempoJames:
No need to argue with a technician that knows nothing. I know u will want to argue that the chief lab technician that conducts the test and give diagnosis in verge to claim he knows what he doesn't was trained by a doctor. You are boasting of common gram staining and leishman's just imagine a technician.
The truth remains u'll always be subject to the lab HOD who is a pathologist(Dr). Have a nice time treating your headache.

Even the technicians are more knowledgeable than your physician-pathologists many of whom can't properly focus an Olympus microscope. Something some lab assistants can do with ease. Yet they want to head the Medical Scientist. Laughable peeps!

ZorGBUooeh:
The democracy day is also illegal cos he dint consult the senate.

Well at least he for allow the yorubas rejoice over de 419 award a little na..I heard they are already preparing 1trillion votes for him.

Lmao!

Unigrad:
I respect you.
A medical laboratory scientist always talk with fact.
If I open my mouth to tell you the errors done by this over too know set of professionals, well, time is coming when patients relatives will start to investigate the course of the death of their loved ones, then we will know who is who.

My brother and friend, the truth must be said whether anyone likes it or not. I have physician friends whom I have know right from school days. Many of them my former room mates and more like brothers. They know I hold radical views on 'laboratorism'. We may not agree in health politics but they understand where I stand and that is enough. I'm sure even these physicians here have one or two Scientists or pharmacists as friends whom they've known for years but now look down on because their lecturers told them they are 'superior beings'. Their problems.


My physician friends and I cannot antagonize each other because we were first friends and brothers before we all became Scientists and Physicians. We jab ourselves sometimes even when we meet in our social gatherings.

That said, it is still our duty to promote and guard jealously the principles of our Professions. I have no problem with that. But if the promotion of their profession is dependent on putting a glass ceiling over another group of professionals then we'll have serious issues. It is a slave era mentality and will be resisted.

My motto is: Acquire knowledge and show that you have it.

Anyone who is knowledgeable can't be intimidated.

MrBigiman:
They are in Lagos, Abuja and port Harcourt. Inform ur union. I remember the Union trying to oppress a pathologist in Ondo. When the security agency were done with the Johesu tout, they had to plea for a soft landing. Johesu misinterpreted the court ruling and that's d shame we find in Nigeria.

Radiographer started a similar move 2 years back. But after many were arrested by police for intimidating Doctors they retreated to their dirty shell.

No one can fight Medicine and Surgery, because that's d reason why there's the modern day hospital.

You are the one who keep lamenting about the judgement. Your minister of physicians are the ones shielding you from being prosecuted by the various council. Johesu knows what they are doing. They've educated nigerians that the minister of health mustn't be a physician and have proved to Nigerians (with facts and figures) that our health indices performed better when non-physicians were appointed ministers of health.

Today nigeria health performance indices is 198/200 only above the likes of war-torn South sudan because physicians keep bastardizing the health system. Nigerians are now aware and your impunity already has a low shelf life.

Your MBBS is not bigger than the law.

...and lastly @tempojames

If Nigerians hated Scientists, Nurses, pharmacists they wouldn't have ensured that they become independent professions. Infact they wanted you kept in check that's why they sympathized with Johesu to your chagrin.

Nigerians have lost lives because of your professional incompetence, misconducts and thuggery in the health sector. Johesu won't fail Nigerians.

tardell007:
whats MDCN?

Medical and dental council.

TempoJames:
You see why you can never be better than a pathologist?
I learnt everything about gram staining n lieshman's stain in year one. You are boasting of it after 5 good years. Idiots!
That is how a radiographer keeps diagnosing PiD once he/she sees fluid in d rectouterine pouch of douglas
That is how idiots calling themselves scientist keeps using HVS to screen Pelvic infections and always land up with staphylococcus. They don't know that HVS and Endocervical swab are 2 different proceedures. That u will never catch N.gonorrhea or C.trachomatis using HVS. I keep on getting results of Staphylococcus and E.coli(probably by fecal contamination of d swab) from a px with with all classical signs pf tuboovarian abscess with no urinary symptoms from idiots
Any doctor will prefer to work with result of a pathologist or radiologists than that of technicians who knows nothing.
To show u how dispensable u guys are....Buhari didn't even mention ur baseless agitations during his democracy speech. I'm sure the circular of sack notice was an order from d president. He only summoned Adewole to protect his political career.
To show u how dispensable u guys are, a classic hospital like LUTH only advertised for nurses to help dress wounds,chart tpr n dress surgeons b4 surgery. pathologists,pharmacologist,orthopaedics n radiologists could have phase out the other idiots.
The day doctors will stand to their feet and want to bring in d best standard practise and relativity (3:1 against d meacre 1.5:1) that is when idiots will realize the privilege they are abusing.

Gram staining and leishman staining are the basics of the fundamentals. Even a second semester 200 Level Scientist in training will prepare stained slides perfectly and tell you the working principles of stains even from Gram stains in Micro to Periodic acid Schiff in Histo. Yet I have seen resident physcians who are entirely cluesless about these procedures and there principles when they come to the laboratory. Yes many of them, not HOs but residents but they want to head the lab. How many of your physicians can prepare primers in molecular-based testing procedures? How many even knows the principle of Serum antibiotic assay by HPLC methodology?

Every Medical Scientist who knows his worth knows the difference, importance and peculiarity of Endocervical swab (ECS) and High vaginal swab ( HVS). They also know that Hematoxylin and Eosin staining is better for nucleus studies while Papanicolau staining will better reveal cytoplasmic properties of a pap smear for C-ca screening in the histo lab.

If you work in an organized health institution and get a ridiculous result you should take it up and seek redress by finding out the person who ran the investigation, go to the person's superior like the Chief Scientist or Principal Scientist. Investigations will be lauched and will help rid the labs of quacks and fake charlatans which your physician MDs employ in order to cut cost.

I did it during internship when an empty-headed arrogant physician brought me an EUCR sample during call in a Fluoride oxalate bottle and expected me to produce results 'urgently' and sign out. I simply tossed the sample into a trash bin, filled an incident report in incident register, filed recollection form served it to him and sent him back to the ward. He was too empty-headed and arrogant to be lectured so I saved my strenght and shut the lab door as he protested.

Lastly, there is no privilege being abused. All professions will continue to enjoy their autonomy regardless of what you think as obtained abroad.
Most of the succesful private lab I know make less than 17% of the income from physician's request (many physicians have their fake side labs already). There are walk-in patients, Direct consumer requested tests and patient with pre-existing conditions who go to labs for follow ups, even other health professionals like pharmacists and nurses can educate patients to request tests like liver function tests and Eucr before taking some drugs that are contra-indicated in Liver or renal disease.

A private genetic testing lab in the US (not owned by physicians) 23andMe offer direct access testing for Genetic predisposition to diseases in the US to the global community without physician's request. How can they go bankrupt when they don't depend on you? The Scientists and technicians there don't need you.

Global healthcare is shifting from 'physician-centred' to 'patient/client-centred'. You either shape in or ship out.

MrBigiman:
MDCN accredited those Labs a pathological labs and not scientist Lab and that is what it is.Nothing Lab scientists can do about it. Biobelemoye should have visited there if the mopol men at the entrance won't deflate his obese abdomen.

No where in MDCN act gives it the power to accredit medical laboratory practice. The court have said so therefore it remains illegal for physicians to accredit a medical laboratory when they don't even know the constituents of Leishman stain or even the working principle of Gram stain reaction. It is an anomaly that Nigerians will correct in due time.

Your personal lame hatred for JOhesu leaders won't change the truth.

MrBigiman:
Shamefully for u, Clinalancet, pathcare, Clinic, Mecure, are all international Labs. It's the shanty labs opened by MLS graduates that are death trap, diagnosing malaria, typhoid and staph all day long. Clinalancet and pathcare are top players where u'll be glad to be employed as a technician. The link below is a good read to show the decay in our lab and how ASMLCSN destroyed laboratory Medicine.

https://theeagleonline.com.ng/concern-over-silence-on-pathologistslab-scientists-battle-in-hospitals-by-achilleus-chud-uchegbu/

Whether they international labs or not is not our cup of tea. The question is are they properly registered with the MLSCN the national accrediting body? These Indian labs come here and break regulatory laws in cahoot with your fattened CMDs because of greed.

Can a Nigerian owned lab go to India or Australia to set up shop without accredition from the proper regulatory bodies like the AIMS because it is 'International' as it has crossed the border?

Your physicians are responsible for rot in the laboratory system, they held sway for many years in that sector until the MLSCN act was enacted by Nigerians asking you to go back to your consulting rooms (your primary constituency) and stop killing patients with fake laboratory reports so the Scientist who is trained in the principle and methodologies of running a proper laboratory can take his rightful place as that's what he is trained for.


Google up EL-Labs it is a Scientist-owned fully accredited laboratory with International standard certifications.

MrBigiman:
Enjoy ur lies. Clinalancet, Union Diagnostics , total health care Diagnostics are headed by pathologist, gynaecologist and pathologists respectively. Johesu leader should go there and enforce the lies he is proliferating, let's see if he won't be in jail.

Do you know how much bribe these labs pay to the ministry of health? Do you know how much kickbacks they pay to CMDs and consultants in order to invade our teaching hospitals and extort our patients. These CMDs and MD then starve our teaching laboratories of funds, reagents, equipments so that patients can be diverted to these thieving unregistered diagnostic companies where they are extorted without mercy.

We know that's why you've been advocating for privatization of laboratory and radiography services so that you can milk poor innocent patients through the back door while at the same stiffling JOHESU who puts you in check.

Listen, the more you talk the more we'll open cans of worms. Beat it.

MrBigiman:
Stop deceiving the public. Doctors can own Clinical labs and he is protected by the MDCN act to do so. I have documents to validate my assertion, but won't spoonfeed u in ur ignorance today.

Oga go to the National judicial library and peruse the original copy of the MDCN act. What is written therein is 'laboratory practical'. I repeat professional practice is not school practicacl and the Courts have affirmed this against the physicians. Even in the school practical it is the Scientists that teach the physicians in training just as pharmacists teach the Physicians, Scientists, and others Pharmacology.

Don't let your seniors deceive you. The only reason you are allowed to run your fake labs and pharmacies without knowledge of principles and methodologies of those tests is because of the caveat which the impunity of the health minister (who is a physician) grants you and that will change very soon. Shikena!

MrBigiman:
Everyday u take ur lies a notch further. Lies don't last for long phase 1. Doctors are drivers of the industry and will remain so for eternity.

Like I said, you are not expected to belive you and I know these things happen but you have the right to play ostrich.

As for being 'drivers'. The administrative status quo in the health sector is being challenged and we are not ones shaking. It is you the 'driver' who released tons of memos and letters during a strike that didn't affect you and that is not a sign of a 'comfortable driver'.

Things are definitely changing you'll agree with me.

MrBigiman:
The MDCN act is clear on Doctors opening clinical labs. It's lab scientist opening Clinical labs that is the problem in this country. A lab sceintist can only open a medical Lab, but many follow quackery religiously, and turn back to scream about Doctors.

There is nowhere in the MDCN act that allows you to open a medical laboratory practice.
It only says you can learn 'Medical laboratory PRACTICALS in medical school.

Practice and practicals are different things entirely. Scientists went to court, argued it and won.

Stop misleading people. Only the MLSCN act 11 of 2003 allows anyone to do medical laboratory practice and that person is the Medical Scientist.
The reason why many of you are not in jail is because ministers of health who are always physicians always intefere with inspectorate jobs of MLSCN, PCN, Nursing councils to give you guys a soft landing. In one word 'impunity' is the reason why your illegalities thrive.

TempoJames:
The Regulation shall be phasing out of johesuites claiming doctors. You will soon see for yourself.
The pharmacist that treated malaria instead of meningitis he was trained by a doctor right? Nonsense!

I agree with you that physicians who train quacks, run unregistered pharmacies and laboratories should be thrown into jail as mandated by the constitution.

TempoJames:
Atleast any mistake will be fully attributable to the physician not idiots claiming physicians making mistakes then the physician go to jail.
Only then could everyone know his/her limitations in d health sector. Only then could you see standard practise. By right it is the hematologist and gastroenterologists that are supposed to handle those issues closing. The houseofficer & registers r only to carry out orders n go on ward rounds with d consultant. You would see how many johesuites could rot in prison for claiming to be physicians.

If at all those scenarios are true , atleast the intervention was aimed properly.
You lines are filled with lies, the HO doesn't compose prescriptions, the counsultant does that, the Ho only carries out d order. You say his senior colleagues cautioned him/her n allowed u to eavesdrop? Nonsense!



Let's see how the health sector goes in few years from now.

I'm not expecting you to believe, the drug the HO adminstered were not properly administered and that led to the avoidable death of that patient.
He was scolded when it was too late and he even came out crying. He graduated from lasuth. All clinical staffs except the deceased patient relatives knew what transpired.

Yes I am an advocate for proper regulation of the health sector and quackery is traceable mainly to the greed of physicians.
You open fake side labs and unregistered pharmacies and train quacks after collecting fees from them. The quacks invade the health sector and unleashes mayhem on patients.