₦airaland Forum

SANdos: I'm 90% sure that's Oba Eweka II of Benin

I've seen some pictures of Oba Eweka II (including pictures from 1914, soon after he acceded to the throne, and another picture from 1923) and he looks different from that facially. Unless it's a picture of Oba Eweka II from a decade or more before 1914, when he was younger looking, I think it's likely that it's someone else.

I do have to commend him for his efforts though. He should also publish these photographs in a book once he's done exhibiting them if he doesn't already plan to do that.


@eGuerrilla

Do you know who is in the black and white photo from your 9:04am post in this thread? Is that a past Obi of Agbor in the colonial era or is it somebody else?

ekt_bear: Is it me or is Wale's cd the sh1t? I've been listening to it for the past two weeks and haven't gotten tired yet. This is very strange and unusual for me..

It's a very good album - much better than the mediocre Magna Carta Holy Grail and that awful Yeezus garbage.

"LoveHate Thing," "Heaven's Afternoon," and "88" are the songs I replay the most. Also one of the bonus tracks, "One Eye Kitten" is addictive as hell for some reason - maybe it's the beat.

Most of the comments on that dailymail site are derogatory. I don't know why Mr. Osodi thought it made sense to have a mediocre British tabloid that all sorts of unintelligent people comment on be the first place to exhibit his photography.

Even the first line of the dailymail article itself is insulting these kings (their use of the word 'flunkeys' to refer to their attendants).

Oh well, maybe he was naive.

Nice thread.

Although I feel sorry for this lady for what happened to her, I have to agree with shymexx and obadiah777/buzugee on this one. She really would be better off trying to improve things in her home country rather than trying to change Italy's laws.

PAPA AFRICA: I wonder if there are any accurate recreations of what the benin warriors would look like in real life.

I haven't seen anything like that, but the art definitely provides extremely detailed images of what the warriors looked like during more "medieval" times. I think the only real issues as far as reconstructions of their attire would be correctly identifying the materials used in all the different images and successfully identifying the colors. The written descriptions and a surviving red warrior's tunic from 18th century or 19th century Benin make me think there would have been a very significant use of the color red, but I don't have a good idea of all the other colors that may have been used.

Honestly, Miss Bayelsa looks better than Miss Imo, and Miss Adamawa looks better than both of them. I think that's pretty obvious to anyone who's trying to be even a little bit objective, so I don't see what all the fuss about Miss Imo is about. That said, if the the whole thing was set up for Miss Bayelsa to win from the start because of hometown bias, she shouldn't have won, and Ben Bruce should either hand over sponsorship and organization of the contest to some other willing people or organize the next contest in a way that doesn't allow for his home state to have so much influence over the competition.

ITbomb: Pls which interesting series is currently on now that Game of throne, Da Vinci, Spartacus and Everybody hates Chris are out of the way
(dont mention the walking dead, I hate that series

The final season of Breaking Bad is starting in early August. If you haven't been watching the series before now, you can easily catch up and watch all the episodes in a week or two before the final season starts.

I also suggest a show called Continuum and another one called Copper that are both pretty interesting. And there's also Falling Skies and Boardwalk Empire.

And some good older series to check out are The Wire, The Sopranos, Rome, and Deadwood.

Denise216: Few black people anywhere are ready to embrace the sheer humanity of Africans in antiquity. Any real depiction of greed, despair, lust, jealousy, deceit and other emotions/desires/actions would be considered offensive despite the fact they were omnipresent and the driving force behind (West) Africa's major civilizations.

I'm not sure I follow. Perhaps you could elaborate.

Most of African history is taught and repeated by Blacks, even on the continent, from a tainted perspective to prove Black ingenuity and subsequent progress to non-Blacks, not a celebration of unique cultural synthesis and adaption among Black People before European and Arab influences.

Actually I think it's the case that some of African history is taught from a perspective that attempts to prove the existence of black ingenuity in the past to other black people. You'd be surprised to find out that the people who insist on the existence of one particular image of all of Africa in the past are sometimes other black people.

I'm not sure how African history is taught all across the African continent, but it seems quite clear from their publications that African researchers and historians in Africa are interested in a lot more than just showcasing ingenuity to whatever non-blacks might have an interest in ancient black history. They are very interested in the finer historical details and in the actual cultures of their own people and other African peoples.

If a Black version of medieval fantasy were conceived and adequately funded it would be rejected; considered sleazy, demonic, and exploitative.

That's possible, depending on one's audience. But if one doesn't try first, one can't be certain of how people will react. I think the quality of a film or show (writing/storyline, acting, costumes, directing, originality, etc.) based on any period in African history would be the main factor in determining whether or not the product was praised or rejected.

Interesting topic. I talked about this sort of thing in the GOT discussion thread in the TV/Movies section a while back. Just for the record though, I should point out that Benioff is not the author or creator of Game of Thrones. He's the showrunner and producer who, along with D.B. Weiss, brought the material to a TV audience. The creator and author of GOT is George R.R. Martin.

The perception which most people (of any race) have of precolonial Africa is pretty far off the mark (in my experiences at least) so a great TV show or some really good historically based movies could go some way toward correcting that perception. Even the map you posted earlier of the kingdoms in Africa is wildly inaccurate, mostly because it omits so many interesting and important kingdoms.

But the real issue is actually a lack of well written and creative fictional writing that is based on medieval and ancient Africa and a lack of funding. The people who are most likely to be willing to fund such movies, i.e. black people - whether in Africa or outside of Africa - usually don't have the funds to make a high quality movie or TV show based on any part of African history. I'm also not saying that non-blacks who do have the funds would never fund any such movie or show (George Lucas funded Red Tails, but the film didn't get good reviews or do well at the box office), but I think that non-black producers and executives would be much more likely to fund historical films/shows with a European or Asian background rather than an African background because they relate to that stuff personally and because they might feel that they will have a larger audience that way.

The third problem, although less of an issue than the two previous problems listed above, is that a lot of research and reading would have to go into doing any story based on any time period in ancient Mali, Nubia, Kongo, etc. in order to actually have a good foundation/basis for any historically inspired story. And the kind of people that do the studying and research and have a good grasp of much of the relevant material aren't necessarily going to be fiction writers in their spare time nor are they usually going to be in contact with or in collaboration with talented fiction writers.

Ayee Idris: Burglary. Source. Wikipedia

Your point here seems to be that racial profiling is justified. If you actually think that, maybe you should experience some of it yourself.

That was not the first time he was going there, In the rain? without an umbrella? He decided to scope pretty houses? possible but highly illogical. Highly. Looking at houses in a hoodie in the pouring rain in a neighborhood besieged by burgarly at night is reasonable and prudent grounds for suspiciond

How many times had he been there before, and for what? So you know that he had the route and the area memorized or something? Even if he knew the area, I'm not sure what the issue is with looking around. His father's fiance was renting a house in that area, so he wasn't just going to any random neighborhood and looking around - it was on his way back from the store and he may or may not have been looking out for a specific house on his way back.

What's the issue about him not having an umbrella? Do you even know if it had been raining earlier? If you leave your home without an umbrella, and you're walking home in the rain, are you saying that you have to cower your face and lower your head when walking back home and avoid looking at any scenery like some sub-human, even if you might not be exactly familiar with the area?

"Scoping" houses? I didn't say he was scoping houses. Is there even any evidence that he was "scoping" out or "checking" out houses? Even Zimmerman only said to police that Trayvon was "looking" at the houses. Even Zimmerman didn't say the kid was specifically "scoping houses" yet you're making it seem like he was plotting something.

Then a 17 year old picture would be evidence right?

No, the point is, pictures of Trayvon, as he looked around the time he was shot, are what have been shown in the media most recently and overwhelmingly, not this "14 year old" "12 year old" nonsense you keep referring to. They showed a few outdated photos when the story first broke because they had access to those photos, but those photos were of when he was 16, not when he was 12, and the latest pics and the pics that were most commonly used were of what he looked like at 17.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp

The image you keep seeing in the media is what his face actually looked like. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to accept. Incorrect pictures of other people were posted and labeled as Trayvon, but he did look just like the pictures the media showed around the time of his death.

The issue of gold teeth or whatever is stupid. I have some friends who used to wear baggy pants, with them sagging in high school in order to look "cool" (or what they thought was cool), but don't dress anything like that now, and one of them is now in law school at an Ivy league university. Stop making simplistic assumptions.

You give me someone's opinion on the matter, that he thinks it is a smear campaign. I give you Miami Herald report. Shey this is not a blog. http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3413343/

There's no evidence that he hit a bus driver or even took a swing at one. You accepted a spurious claim and presented it as fact. There's nothing in that Miami Herald article about attacking a bus driver.

Even your article doesn't say the police was not suspicious. What it said that it cannot be tied to any reported jewelry theft. Didn't say that Martin gave an explanation for it being in his possession. Didn't say it is not in his concealed juvenile records

Concealed juvenile records? How are you not getting that he had no juvenile record?

I don't know if he was selling jewelry or something, but I do know that if there were any evidence that he had stolen jewelry, it would have surfaced by now since they've had all the time in the world to identify the jewelry and its origin. And Martin said outright that the jewelry wasn't his. If he was trying to cover up about stolen jewelry, one would think he would have said it was from his parents or that he bought it or something. Martin did actually give an explanation, if you had read the article - he said that a friend had given the jewelry to him.

Well, It could show that Martin had some fighting skills and inflicted the physical damage on Zimmerman as the pictures show

Or it could show that his cousin thought he had some fighting skills. There's a difference.

If Zimmerman's instructor is to be believed, a person wouldn't really need "fighting skills" to inflict damage on Zimmerman, since he was such a "horrible" fighter.

I don't read blogs for news. I got in from Yahoo months ago. I cant locate it currently, but I did just find this on USAtoday
In dozens of interviews with family members and acquaintances, and from details available in court documents and school records, Trayvon Martin is revealed as a standout athlete with a ravenous appetite. Adored by family. Quiet and funny. And yet there is evidence of [b]drug use, school suspensions and an interest in mixed martial arts. Tattoos and gold teeth. Attributes [/b]used to paint Trayvon as a marauding thug or defended as simply a "typical" young man
Trayvon had been suspended several times during his school years, usually for minor trouble. His last suspension, for having marijuana residue in a bag, led his father to take the teen from Miami to his home in Sanford, Fla., for a few days as punishment.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/11/trayvon-martin-profile/1761373/

This is exactly the problem I had with your post initially that made me respond. You keep buying into this image constructed by the media of him, but you haven't taken that much time to think about the images being presented. I don't assume that every teenager who experiments with weed or other negative things is some sort of thug - I can use my brain to figure out that they might be trying to fit into what the media or people around them think are "cool." Using weed isn't the sole characteristic of "marauding young thugs" - there are two states in the U.S. where using weed is legal and weed use among teenagers isn't always based on whether one is trying to be a thug or not. There are many non-thuggish teenagers and grown ups that use drugs in the U.S.

And about the tattoos?

"She then gave details of Martin’s tattoos, noting that her son was right-handed and had two tattoos. One was on his right upper shoulder and showed praying hands with his grandmother’s and great-grandmother’s names.

The other tattoo was on his left wrist. "He had my name there," she said." - Trayvon's mother on Trayvon's tattoos. Note that if this was false, the defense would have already referred to something in the autopsy report that contradicted it in the trial.

So he had tattoos dedicated to his grandmother, great grandmother, and his mother and this is supposed to be a big deal or be something negative against his character?

Zimmerman has a criminal record for resisting arrest (possibly violently), and has a restraining order against him from his ex.

Martin Travyon is a teenager and may have one, but we will never know cos their criminal record is always concealed.

No. This simply isn't correct. He didn't have a juvenile record. He didn't have any criminal record period.

the judge ruled in the beginning that the tape would not be used because experts could not decipher the voice. With all the rubbish they show us on crime shows, I cannot understand why they couldn't clear it up. The defense was angry that despite the ruling, Martin's mother was allowed to comment on it saying it was her son, despite the fact that the judge ruled it out in the beginning. don't twist facts. Didn't Zimmerman's mother also testify it was her son on the tape. Since it was allowed for Martin, it was then allowed for Zimmerman. Why would someone beating up someone be screaming "help". Not logical

No the judge ruled that the audio experts that the prosecution initially relied on, who said that the voice on the tape was not Zimmerman's, would not be allowed to testify about that, because their methods were not standard and accepted within the scientific community. Furthermore, they noted that

"The Court accepts the opinions of Drs. French, Doddington, Nakasone and Wayman that reliable comparison of normal speech to the screams in the 911 call is not possible"

I don't see any problem with that - it's a reasonable conclusion - and clearly the defense had no reason to be "angry" (if they were) as you put it, since both sides got to claim it was their respective sons' voices on the tape at the trial, even though it's likely that neither of them has heard their sons screaming for their lives before.

And the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on Martin noted that Martin had been alive for a short while after being shot, so yeah, Martin could have screamed for help, even if Zimmerman had also been screaming earlier when he was losing in that fight.

Does his mother? I don't understand this question. Fact remains he said it was not his son screaming. When the case blew up, he changed mouth.

The point of the question is that his father probably doesn't know what his son sounds like when screaming for his life, so what relevance does what the police say the father initially said have here and why did you bring that up? Why would he be able to immediately identify the voice as his son's voice when audio experts can't even compare the screams to normal speech?

No one did, but since there are NO bruises on Martin. No injuries to his face or the back of his head. Doesn't logic dictate he was the one doing the beating

Doesn't logic dictate that the person who's winning a fight isn't always the one who started it?

Maybe, because I have a tendency toward skepticism, I don't believe everything Zimmerman says about who started what, or why Martin was really fighting him.

There was no evidence that he intended to accost him. He would not have bothered to call d police. he did want him caught and threw caution to the wind because the 911 call sounds clearly show he only got out of his car when he saw him running.

This is ridiculous. How do you pursue someone who you think might be a criminal, possibly a violent criminal, and then when they walk up to you, you stand around and wait to talk with them, unless you intend to confront them? You think someone looks dodgy or suspicious and stand around and wait as they approach you instead of sprinting back to your car, but you have no intention of confronting them? Are you serious?

He shouldn't have gotten out of the car in the first place, because that's not something any sane member of a neighborhood watch would do. Merely reporting that Trayvon was in that area or pointing which direction Trayvon went in would have been enough for the police to work with, and they would have been able to resolve the issue from there as Zimmerman stayed in his car and waited.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-case-feds-weighing-hate-crime-charges-george-zimmerman-report-article-1.1078845 I don't do news blogs darling.

Just as I thought you didn't understand what you read. You said, "Obama even had a federal team investigate Zimmerman for racial crimes and he was found not guilty." but in fact that never happened, and that's not even what that NY Daily News article you posted says.

It means it wasn't an attack on someone smaller or deliberate bullying as some media is trying to portray it by showing a 12 year old picture. Old means nothing in a fight

I already commented on the fake "12 year old" claim above. Do you know what "baby faced" means? Some people look younger (facially) than they are because of their features. And Martin was 5'11'' (as the autopsy report shows) and Zimmerman is 5'7'' (as police records show). He was 4 inches taller, but that's not "way taller" - that's 4 inches taller. Anyway, it doesn't make much sense to assume what someone's age is based on height, so I don't see what the deal is about whether Zimmerman should or should not have known how old Trayvon was because he was taller than him. There are many people in the U.S. who are taller than 5'7'' - that doesn't mean one can assume that they're all grown men.

I didn't say Martin was a street fighting thug, but it goes to show that he also had some experience. The prosecution brought up Zimmerman's MMa background to show he cld defend him. Martin's background could also show that he could kick Zimmerman's behind, age not withstanding

Nobody knows how much "experience" he really had, or how serious any high school fights he may have been involved in even were. I got into a fight in high school after somebody insulted me, but that doesn't mean I was ever some sort of street fighting expert or anything other than a regular kid. And it might not make sense to compare fights between high school kids to fighting between grown men who are training under a professional instructor to learn how to fight.

He has been calling 911 before now in the line of his duty. Now you are assuming he had intent.

And he had been getting angry (as the phone call to 911 on the day Martin was killed showed) that the suspects kept getting away even after he called the police. That's a pretty strong motivation to pursue and confront someone.


My issue with your post wasn't that you think some of the media coverage was biased against Zimmerman (it was, I never said that everything the media puts out is accurate, but it's not that unusual for the person who does the killing in a murder case to get negative or biased media coverage). The problem I had with your post wasn't even that you actually somehow believe race wasn't a factor for Zimmerman and that he would have followed and suspected Martin if it had been a white woman he had never seen before walking around and looking instead of a black teenager he had never seen before. The real problem is that your first post was so biased, one-sided and filled with inaccuracies, that I had to point out the slant and bias in your post. It's this sort of bias, stereotyping and assumption that led to Martin being killed in the first place and you shouldn't lend it any credence without checking all the facts first.

Ayee Idris: Two weeks before the incidence, two black teens were arrested.

For what? And what were they charged with?

In the call, he reported that he has seen a boy on a hoodie acting suspiciously, stopping to check out houses (which is odd because it was raining)

There are any number of reasons why he might have been looking at houses as he was walking. He could have been trying to remember his way back as he was walking in the rain. He could have been looking at the houses because some of them were nice looking. I didn't know looking at houses was proof that a person is plotting something. I'll be sure to be aware of that next time I'm walking alone.

The media only showed 12 year old pictures of him, not the 17 year man who looked thuggish with tattoos and gold teeth.

That's already been debunked. That's a different person. Don't just believe everything you read on the internet.

They didn't allow evidence that Martin was currently in suspension from school for hitting a bus driver

No. That's incorrect. There's no evidence that he hit a bus driver or even took a swing at one.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/26/452310/what-everyone-needs-to-know-about-the-smear-campaign-against-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/?mobile=nc

that a few weeks before he was found with stolen jewelry.

"Women’s jewelry and a watch found in Trayvon Martin’s school backpack last fall could not be tied to any reported thefts, the Miami-Dade Police Department said Tuesday."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/03/27/miami-dade-police-department-trayvon-martin-not-tied-to-jewelry-theft/

They disallowed the text from his cousin asking Martin to teach him how to fight.

Maybe because it has no relevance whatsoever. Other people thinking he knows how to fight isn't relevant to whether or not he was murdered.

They failed to mention that the mother said in her initial interview that he was such a problem child that she had to send him to live with his father.

Could you provide the actual source for this? (An official source, not some blog). Even if this is true, given that Martin's biological mother and his father were not together (separated), there are obviously entirely different reasons why she might have wanted him out of the house, which she might not want to admit to immediately.

All this was disallowed in court because he was a minor, which is understandable, but repressed by the media to what end? Because they wanted to portray the boy as an innocent kid and not a possible thug that he may or may not have been. Cos his record would show reasonable doubt.

The only one of them with a criminal record is Zimmerman.

Zimmerman got into a scuffle with a cop and it's on his record. Whether the cop was in the right or wrong in that incident, Zimmerman clearly resisted arrest. Originally he was charged with resisting arrest violently, but he managed to get a lesser charge. And then there's that domestic abuse issue with his ex-fiance. But that's also murky.

Then the controversial 'help help' recording, which was taken by the neighbor who saw someone wearing red (Zimmerman) being beaten under and called 911. His testimony was never controverted or punctured in any way. GZ had even told the police that he had called for help before the existence of the tape was even known. Then Martin parents tried to claim that he was the one calling. Yet earlier Martin's father had told the police that it was not his son's voice. when he was cross-examined on that fact, he said that the police mis-interpreted him. You don't have to take my word for it. The whole trial is on Youtube for your viewing. the evidence are all online. Read them all and then decide, but not by listening to propaganda.

If that was actually Zimmerman's voice on the tape, why was the defense team (for Zimmerman) adamant about trying to make the tape irrelevant because the voice of the person on the tape couldn't be reliably identified by any experts? Has anyone even shown the slightest bit of evidence that it's Zimmerman's voice on that tape?

Has Trayvon's father ever heard his son screaming for his life before? Does he know exactly what his son sounds like when he's screaming for his life?

Also, the person who saw Zimmerman losing the fight, did that person even see how the entire altercation started?

People saying that he chose to get out of his car. It was his job too.

No, actually it wasn't his job to do so. You don't understand the concept of a neighborhood watch. There are other neighborhood watch volunteers who were interviewed about what the duties and roles of a neighborhood watch member are and they also made it clear that Zimmerman acted inappropriately in pursuing someone and even getting out of his car to confront them.

If you think someone is a criminal, and possibly a violent criminal, why would you (an ordinary civilian, not a police officer) get out of your car to confront them if you were part of the neighborhood watch?

Obama even had a federal team investigate Zimmerman for racial crimes and he was found not guilty.

Source? (An official source, not a blog)

How is he supposed to know if he was 17 or 18. Martin was way taller than him.

Because everybody that's taller than you is as old as you, right?

As for his MMA history, the instructor testified that he was "horrible" and he had told him he only did it to stay fit and hopefully one day learn how to do it. Having some MMA training doesn't mean you cant be beaten in a surprise attack.

So when Zimmerman trains at a sport meant specifically to help a person know how to fight better, his instructor can just assure us that he was horrible, and it doesn't mean that he was really trying to learn how to fight, and that he might have been ready and waiting for a chance to test out his fighting skills when he confronted Martin, but when Martin's cousin asks him to teach him how to fight, this automatically means Martin was a street fighting thug. Brilliant logic.

If Zimmerman wanted to do James Bond, he wont bother calling 911. He would just trail the kid on his own, but he didn't do that.

Actually, he did do that. He did trail the kid on his own. Then he got out of his car to confront him, even though that's not what any sane person in a neighborhood watch would do. Calling 911 is an attempt to give his vigilante actions some air of legitimacy or to give him some possible backup for his actions. He was covering his bases.

Ayee Idris, don't just believe everything people claim on the internet and don't just believe everything a man trying to avoid jail time says. People will say all sorts of things to avoid prison.

What a disgrace.

Five white jurors and one Hispanic juror in a conservative, Republican state (Florida) are supposed to determine whether a half-white, half-Hispanic man (Zimmerman) murdered a black teenage boy in a country with an awful history of racism and stereotyping? This is nonsense. I hope something terrible happens to each and every one of those moronic jurors. The jurors are either fools or racists (or both).

Zimmerman, who has a criminal record, profiles and then stalks a teenage boy (who has no prior criminal record), trying to be a vigilante, even though the cops told Zimmerman to stop following Martin when he spoke to them. The boy sees that he's being stalked by some creepy looking guy for no reason, and then takes action when the guy starts approaching him - most likely thinking this guy (Zimmerman) is an armed robber or serial killer - and Zimmerman, who trains in mixed martial arts, somehow loses the fight badly, is able to reach for his gun, and kills the boy.

And somehow, the legal system finds this complete failure of a man, Zimmerman, innocent of murdering that kid, and doesn't even deem it manslaughter. And this is the "best legal system in the world"?

PAPA AFRICA: how accurate of a depiction would these images be?

Some aspects of the engraving would be accurate, but the image isn't based on firsthand observation, but instead is the work of an artist employed by a person named Van Meurs, the publisher of Olfert Dapper's 1668 book, Description of Africa. The artist who did the engravings for Dapper's book didn't see Benin (or anywhere else in Africa) himself, but instead constructed an image based on the detailed descriptions given in Dapper's book.

However, despite this, we know that certain aspects of the depiction are more or less accurate from other sources. These are:

- The use of dwarfs in certain ceremonies

- The use of leopards in certain ceremonies

- The clothing the men near the soldiers and the king are wearing seems to similar to what Edo people in old photographs wore. People in Benin did wear clothing (wrappers) which looked close enough to what is depicted in that image. But for a more accurate depiction of their clothing, one should look at the Benin art and the surviving old photographs from the 19th century.

- The size of the capital. Although quite vague in the image, the artist is clearly implying that the city is large based on the numerous buildings in the background that eventually fade out as one goes further away from the buildings and the procession that are in the foreground. Written and archaeological evidence supports the idea of the capital being quite large so that would be an accurate aspect of the depiction.

- The cast brass bird figures on top of several important houses (this is confirmed by written evidence from other sources, and also by the fragments of those bird figures that survive)

- The height of the pyramidal shaped parts of the palace and other important houses where the birds are placed seem to be only a little smaller (if one takes the height of the pyramidal structures that is implied in the picture to be about 2 stories high) than the height suggested by an eyewitness description (about 3 or 4 stories high). A certain lieutenant John King, a British navy officer who visited Benin sometime between 1815 and 1821 made certain observations which confirm some aspects of the drawing:

"The houses of distinguished personages are very pretty and elegant; the inner walls are covered with mats, and round the court there is a divan raised about eighteen inches above the level of the ground. Mats and woollen [sic] stuffs of home make are spread on the divan and ground. The walls of the palace are well preserved, In one of the facades at which Lieut. King entered there were three doors, of which the chief was in the middle; on each side were rows of eight or ten elephant tusks curiously carved, the points turned towards the wall. During the last insurrection the king was killed and a large portion of the palace was burnt down, but enough remains to bear witness to its former splendour. Down the centre of the facade rises a pyramid about thirty to forty feet high, on the top of which there was fixed a copper serpent whose head reached to the ground and whose body was as thick as that of a man. The inhabitants of Benin have no idea of the lapse of time, but say that this serpent has been there for several centuries. Two apartments which Lieut. King saw, and of which one was the audience chamber of the king, had been spared by the fire; the ceilings were flat and the beams which crossed them were covered with various designs." It will be observed that King speaks of a pyramid, and in so far his description of these buildings agrees with that of Dapper, who, however, called them turrets." - H. Ling Roth, Great Benin (1903), pp. 164-165

So these "pyramids" (pyramidal shaped structures) were still seen on the palace as late as the early 19th century. The "insurrection" referred to there in Roth's book is almost certainly the conflict between prince Ogbebor and prince Erediauwa in the early 19th century. They were the two eldest sons of Oba Obanosa, but there was no real agreement on who was really older since they were born within a very short time of one another. Initially, prince Ogbebor won out, and prince Erediauwa, whose mother was from the Esan area, had to run to the Esan area for safety, but he eventually won over the support of the Esan rulers there, then built up an army, and eventually defeated his half brother's forces and took the capital city. He then established himself as king Osemwende. However, before this, prince Ogbebor would not allow himself to be captured and executed when he realized he had lost, so he had the palace destroyed and killed himself as well before his half brother's forces closed in on him.


Some things that probably are not accurate in the picture:

- The absence of the brass snakes running down the roofs of certain important buildings. Some of the heads of these snakes and parts of their bodies still survive and are kept in museums today, and also the snakes are attested to have been there in eyewitness accounts. However the possibility does exist that at the time that the people that Dapper got his information from visited, the snakes had not yet been put on the roofs, and only the birds were there.

- The exact appearance of the buildings was probably somewhat different than the ones in the foreground in the engraving. There may or may not have been certain buildings that looked much like those in the 17th century, but the few surviving images of buildings from the late 19th century have a somewhat different appearance, where the horizontal line fluting on the walls of certain buildings is clearly visible, unlike in this engraving.

- The form of the procession in that ceremony: the musicians, the men with the leopards, the dwarves, and the other men who seem to be singing the king's praises might not have been so close to the king in real life (in the engraving it looks almost like they are crowding him).

- The exact appearance of the soldiers or noblemen. The artist left the noblemen/soldiers more in the background, most likely because he wasn't that sure of exactly what they dressed like (even despite some of the details given in Dapper's description). For a better idea of what the soldiers actually dressed like, one can consult the numerous artworks from Benin that depict military figures. The king and the most important members of his court did ride horses during warfare and during ceremonial processions, but it's also not clear (at least to me, perhaps other people do know though) if they carried lances during ceremonies (like the picture suggests).

- The attire of the king. I'm not sure what the material the king is wearing in the image is supposed to be, and I'm not sure whether he is wearing any coral beads or not, but it would probably be better to just rely on the surviving artwork to figure out what the kings dressed like during processions, since the art depicts the kings in ceremonial attire quite often when the kings are depicted. There are different attires for the kings in the art, so obviously there was not one permanent attire for every single king over the centuries, but I haven't seen anything so far that exactly matches the style depicted in the engraving in Dapper's book.


A good book which has a bit of analysis of the accuracy of some of the drawings and descriptions of Benin (among other things) is the book A popular history of Benin (2003) by Peter M. Roese and Dmitri M. Bondarenko. I remember coming across some errors in that book when I read it a few years ago, but I think there are few serious errors, and on the whole, I think it's very informative and well researched.

During the visit, China Ex-Im Bank agreed to lend $500 million to Nigeria to build airport terminals in Lagos, Abuja, Port Harcourt and Kano. The 20-year loan is at a 2 percent interest rate with a 30 percent local content provision, Aviation Minister Stella Oduah said.

"It's free money, so we're happy," she said.

She can't possibly have said that. This is most likely just sloppy Nigerian journalism.

I can't imagine that a serving minister in Nigeria's government doesn't comprehend something as basic as what a loan really is.

Danla90: You watch it and it makes you want to do something funny. Its not recommended for all ages so am not missing it.

Agreed. Lately, I've had a sudden urge to declare myself "the king in the North" but I don't know why.

Maybe from now on I'll stick to watching Dora the Explorer and Disney movies like you.

Seun: Cartoon About Sandor Clegane

Funny. And yeah, the Hound can be a decent guy when he wants to be.

Dudu_Negro: Is it not the reality that every ethnic people cherish and love their Kings and the throne he sits on?

Perhaps the reality is that some cherish their king more than others.

This doesn't strike me as a smart way to approach this problem.

Dudu_Negro: What party is that?

APC, and?

^
I have no real interest in what your perception is of how the Binis regard the Oba of Benin. Like I said earlier, file a complaint with the "Ministry of Bini Affairs" or something if it bothers you so much - it's not like I give a damn.

The point is, you need to direct your lectures about people claiming the Oba of Benin supposedly "snubbed" or belittled an important guest toward those that are actually doing that - the political opposition to GEJ - and direct it away from the Binis instead of just looking for an excuse to make a complaint about another ethnic group.

Dudu Negro, I don't care what you think of my writing style, but I'll try to keep this quite simple and avoid using any very long sentences so you don't think I'm making any attempt at "wordsmithing" (I'm not).

According to you, I said that it that it was "Yoruba majority mocking GEJ." This shows a lack of comprehension of something that was stated clearly. I said that it was ACN opponents of GEJ using the picture to mock GEJ and that the majority of these whose ethnic background were known were Yoruba and that if there were any Bini doing so, nobody has been able to point them out. So it is silly of you to go on about how Binis are the ones depreciating the image of the Benin monarchy by making the Oba appear to be belittling and demeaning important guests.

You seem not to comprehend the difference here for some reason, and you seem, amazingly, to be trying to paint me as the one making this ethnic. How you can make something ethnic so explicitly and then turn around and accuse the other person of making an issue ethnic when they correct what you wrote, I don't know. It's just bizarre.

Then you attribute politics in association with ACN. If political opponents of Gej should be blamed, are Binis not majority ACN? Unless you are saying only Yoruba ACN participated.

The very first thing I said was that it was politically motivated - unlike you who went for the ethnic angle and tried blaming it on the Binis with your talk about "wrapping too much mystery and fables." Then I pointed out that these politically motivated mockers using that photo were not even Bini, but that the majority of those whose ethnicity anyone could identify were from your own group. How much sense does it then make for you to start harping on about Binis using the photo and depreciating the monarchy's image? But were you calling anti-GEJ ACN supporters to order about the use of the photo? No. You'd rather write a bunch of stuff about Binis and mystery, fables, invincibility, blah blah blah

I don't know who is Bini or not Bini and except for a handful of people here that i know intimately, i cant even tell you whether the person writing from behind a "ola", "ade", "ayo" or "segun" name in nl is truly Yoruba. Asking for evidence to prove who is Bini again exposes your lack of reasonable expectations.

So why do you keep claiming Binis were mocking GEJ after the visit, when you simply have no evidence? You're the one exposing your own irrationality here. You put forward a claim based on a bunch of flimsy assumptions and no investigation or evidence and I tell you that you have to prove it, and then you claim I'm unreasonable for asking for proof that your assumptions have any validity.

You left out my plea for a "stop" to the nonsense. You hung to my misidentification of ifihearam as a non-Bini person but omitted my moral defense of the institution.

The issue for me is not whether you did or did not put up an attempt at a "moral defense of the institution" (in your own way). What I did was to correct what you wrote as far as the Binis and that photo. What you wrote was in bad taste because you deliberately refused to mention the political motivation for the photo nonsense that you wanted to stop but instead tried to ethnicize it and started going on about how the Binis were trying to make the Oba look "invincible" "cold and calculating" and "wrapped in mystery."

Halleluyah!! Dudu did not know there was a political undertone to the mockery until the "all important" physicsqed pointed it out. Let us all praise Physics for his mercy....Hallelu..Halleluyah!!

Once again you have difficulty understanding what I stated. I used no vague or ambiguous words so I don't see why you're having difficulty understanding what I wrote. If I wanted to say that you weren't aware that it was politically motivated, don't you think I would have said so already?

It's about whether you acknowledged it. You did not acknowledge this before I pointed it out because you intended to play up the strange angle about Binis "wrapping mystery and fables around the Oba" and "trying to make him seem invincible" while deliberately omitting what was actually relevant here as far as the use of the photo of GEJ's visit.

I'm not accusing you of ignorance, I'm accusing you of deliberately omitting what was actually relevant here as far as the use of the photo (politics), in order to complain about something else that bothers you about an ethnic group (Binis 'wrapping too much fables and mystery' around the Oba of Benin or trying to make him seem 'invincible') and make it seem like that was why GEJ was being mocked with that photo.

Since you pointed out that political opposition, ACN, was having a field day on Gej, and Edo State is ACN, then rational minds can put two and two together, without need for evidence to say Binis, in inclusion with others in ACN, were mocking GEJ in the aftermath of that visit.

Rational minds would first try and find evidence that Binis, whether in ACN or anything else, were mocking GEJ in the aftermath of that visit instead of claiming that they don't need evidence. And if they saw that they couldn't find Binis mocking GEJ because of that visit maybe they might realize how wrong it was to go on about the issue of Binis depreciating the image of the monarchy by trying to mock GEJ with that photo.

But if they found evidence for Binis mocking GEJ after that visit, rational minds would try to determine if this mockery was because these Binis dislike GEJ because of their political outlook and their personal opinion of him as a leader or if they were mocking GEJ because they wanted to "wrap mystery" around the Oba and make the Oba look "invincible."

They would not start by naively assuming that the motivation for a Bini to mock GEJ with that photo was to make the Oba appear "cold and calculating" and inclined toward "demeaning and belittling important guests". They would not go off on an irrelevant rant about how the Binis should or should not view their Oba while deliberately omitting mention of the political motivation behind the mockery. Rational minds would not do these things, but for some reason rationality has been completely lost on you in this thread.

Was it a Yorubaman or a Biniman that took the picture and posted on net?

How should I know? If you know the person who took the picture and the person who put it online, you can name them and point them out to me - it would be the first time in this thread that you make an effort to provide evidence for something.

The palace should not even have allowed a release of the picture to begin with. It is in bad taste.

So now the Benin palace officials spoke with the journalists and photographers about that one specific photo and authorized them to release it. What nonsense. Next you'll say that this is a "rational" assumption, but when I ask you for even the slightest bit of evidence to show that the journalists and photographers they let into the palace for the visit didn't take the photo and put it online on their own initiative, without consulting anybody, you'll just ignore the need for evidence and start claiming that this assumption is so "rational" that you don't need evidence for it.

Dudu_Negro: Answer this....were there Binis that joined this mockery or not?

Why don't you point them out to me? You're the one who keeps emphasizing this Bini mockery of GEJ through that picture, yet you haven't made any effort to show me the evidence.

You wrote this below to a poster who sometimes goes out of his way to insult Binis, thinking for whatever reason that he was Bini:

Dudu Negro: You Binis wrap too much mystery and fables around Omo N'Oba than he deserves. You are destroying the true value of the throne. It is disrespectful to the Oba's stool of authority to portray him demeaning or belittling an important guest to his domain.

Why don't you provide this evidence of a Bini portraying the Oba as demeaning or belittling an important guest?

Those in the majority and in the minority are all participants in the mockery. Whether 10 Yorubas and 2 Binis does not matter. I dont understand your point. Im saying its wrong to continue to show and mock that picture and here you come telling us Yorubas are guilty. Is it the guilt that will stop the mockery or a moral call to everybody. There are people that are yet to join NL and when they do and see it they will still mock because the image is a vulnerable one.

When the picture of the exiled Oba was brought here and people mocked it who stood up in defense of it? This is a moral call, not a democratic headcount for guilt. Wake up dude!

You made this about the Binis. You didn't acknowledge that it was politically motivated until I pointed that out. Rather, you said it was due to the Binis "wrapping too much mystery and fables around" the Oba of Benin than you feel he deserved.

Going by your logic, if a Bini poster had delighted in the so-called snub and had mocked GEJ for it using that photo, it would mean that it was because that Bini person wanted to portray the Oba as "invincible" and because that Bini poster was "wrapping mysteries and fables" around the Oba, not because that Bini person is an ACN supporter or someone who just who dislikes GEJ for political reasons and wants to find some excuse to mock him. The mockery was/is politically motivated and not what you're making it out to be ('wrapping too much mystery and fables around the Oba' on the part of the Bini) and that's what I disagree with you about.

Now you're writing stuff about me making this about Yorubas. I didn't say "Yorubas are guilty" I said those that dislike GEJ for political reasons and are ACN supporters were the ones behind it and the majority of those were Yorubas - which they were whether you want to believe it or not. If you simply refuse to accept that, then that's your own problem to sort out - I don't intend to convince you otherwise.

You might want to wake the thread back up since you are so caught up in this majority offender thing. Everyone offends you....Yorubas offend you, even when its not the case; Igbos offend you even when it is not the case....

If Bini wants to be part of Nigeria then you are open to political jibes and humor and mockery just as all other ethnics are....you are not special, though you guys believe that you are and see yourself as such.

I wasn't the one offended. You're the one who started lecturing a person ('ifihearam') you mistakenly thought was Bini about not mocking GEJ using the picture, and you made the issue about the perception of the Oba among the Binis as a whole, as if that one person - even if he had been Bini - could represent the attitudes of Binis in general about the Oba receiving VIPs or traveling to visit other people.

You need to recognize that politically motivated mockery of politicians is going to come in various forms and may have nothing to do with a certain ethnicity "wrapping too much mystery and fables around" their king or trying to make their king seem "invincible".

Wow. You've totally distorted what actually happened. Of the people in those threads whose ethnicity we already know, the majority of those delighting in the supposed "humiliation" or "snub" of GEJ were clearly ACN supporters of Yoruba extraction and there's not even the slightest bit of evidence that the smaller amount whose ethnicity we don't know were Bini. I didn't say that there weren't non-Yorubas who support ACN or that there were no non-Yoruba ACN members that also mocked GEJ after that meeting. That's not the point. The ACN supporters mocking GEJ over that meeting were overwhelmingly not Bini, but from another ethnic group, yet for some strange reason you refuse to admit that and are trying to assign responsibility for the mockery to the Bini. Did you actually read those threads?

I almost feel it's a waste of time arguing this now because you've completely twisted the truth in order to shift the responsibility for the mockery of GEJ in those threads from those who were the vast majority that did so to those who either barely participated or were nowhere to be found. I'm starting to think this is because those who were the majority were from the same ethnic group as yourself, rather than the group you wanted to assign responsibility to.

Try and approach things with at least a little bit of objectivity, otherwise there's not even any point discussing this. And I don't understand why you think Binis would "see a sense of elation" in the media twist on the story when there's nothing in that to derive a sense of elation from. Binis should be elated that the media and people who delight in mocking GEJ twisted the story to claim that what wasn't a snub was a snub?

Dudu_Negro: I think that's a biased statement in highlight. All people have played on this picture to ridicule GEJ. Binis have, Yorubas have and Igbos have. The bottom line is, it needs to stop because it positions the palace in bad light and it doesnt matter if the visit happened in Ife or Sokoto or Onitsha....this is not what Kings do to VIPs on visits to them.

I don't really feel it would be worth the time to go back to those threads on this forum or elsewhere to list the comments of different people and show what group the majority of those posters delighting in a supposed "snub" or "humiliation" of GEJ are from. I know what I saw and I know it doesn't make sense to suggest that Binis are the ones emphasizing that picture or twisting it to make it look like it was a snub. The whole thing is about politics, and ACN (and now APC) supporters were/are the ones that would be most inclined to find some excuse to mock GEJ, even when the mockery isn't warranted.

Of course you can....but Omo N'Oba is portrayed as someone who can order a shut down of the Nigerian democracy if he so wishes. He cannot even shut down the Edo state government. We are in new realities of rulership now and though we must continue to revere the stool of authority and uphold its eminence, but we must not create falsehoods around the throne. Objectivity is more important than invicibility....the Oba is not invicible as Binis portray him.

If you have a problem with how some Binis view the Oba of Benin, then that's your own problem, and you're welcome to file a complaint to whoever will hear it. But my issue was with you making it seem as if ifihearam and everyone else making claims about the Oba of Benin and the nature of his interactions with other people is Bini, when this isn't the case.

Dudu_Negro: You Binis wrap too much mystery and fables around Omo N'Oba than he deserves. You are destroying the true value of the throne. It is disrespectful to the Oba's stool of authority to portray him demeaning or belittling an important guest to his domain. This issue of Gej bein received with disrespect and dismiss by the Oba should be corrected. Kings are magnanimous and embracing, it is not good to portray His Highness as a cold and calculating leader. I hope you will stop circulating this picture of Gej.....it speaks ill of the palace, please stop it.

Ifihearam is not Bini, but is someone who claims to be Itsekiri and makes it a point to insult Binis and the Benin monarchy whenever he or she gets the chance. You only need to look at his/her past posts to see this. She or he has never claimed to be Bini but has repeatedly claimed to be Itsekiri.

The people re-posting the picture of the so-called "snub" of GEJ (it wasn't a snub) by the Oba of Benin on this forum and who keep claiming GEJ was snubbed were overwhelmingly all ACN (and now APC) supporters, several of these posters being Yorubas, not Binis.

Binis can wrap as much "fable and mystery" around their king as Binis want to. Since other peoples do that as well, I don't see why the Edo can't do the same.

Also, I haven't seen any actual Binis in this thread claiming the Oba of Benin has never left his throne to visit others or that he never leaves the palace. The Oba has visited multiple other monarchs (and a governor) before.

Even if this were true (I doubt it), if humanity is still around in 100,000 years, genetic engineering would certainly have reached the point where humans could retain the original or "normal" facial appearances of their ancestors by simply programming the right information into their unborn children's genetic code.

Also I don't really buy the explanations given for why they would have bug eyes or larger nostrils.

Oba gha to kpere. Ise!