MetaPhysical:
Somehow people are wont to say only foreigners can tell Yoruba who he is. That has always being Physics position. Im surprised you took his bs wholeheartedly and agreed with him as "most logical and reasonable".., most biased and untruthful is more fitting.

MetaPhysical/Mayor of Lagos/Dudu Negro/Negro Ntns/etc.

I don't have a particular "position" on "who can tell Yoruba who he is" and I think I will refrain from commenting on issues like this in the future, so that there's no confusion about that.

What 9jacrip quoted was an old post I made back when I thought I could just give an honest opinion on something which I was viewing simply as an "academic" question. It's not something I posted recently, and after our interaction on that that "Yoruba version of Hallelujah" thread by prexios (the title of which was later changed to "Yoruba and Canaanland connection" or something like that), I decided not to comment on this general topic again, as I don't think either of us is going to be convinced of the validity of the views of the other side.

However, although that post of mine in this thread is an old post, my views haven't changed much - there are only minor alterations I would make to that original post in this thread.

Yes Law is a non-Yoruba, obviously. However, I never tried to present him as "the "authority" on Yoruba history," but instead made a side comment about my views about an excellent book of his which I had read recently. The issue of how Yorubas should view his work with regard to their history or who they should consider "the authority" on their history isn't something I commented on, and I wouldn't have an opinion on that anyway. I gave my opinion on how I viewed that particular book of Law's.

I was addressing the topic as a purely academic question to give an opinion on, as I have no real personal stake in the issue, and if there was any confusion about that before, I hope there isn't any now. As for what the basis for my views really is, there is something I would like you to do to see where I'm coming from and to understand why someone could have the views I had/have on this issue without having any particular preexisting "position" on "who can tell Yoruba who he is."

Read these three articles in their entirety and after you've read them, I think you'll understand why my position doesn't follow from any particular bias, but is just an honest statement of my opinion based on what I've read (I don't claim to know it all):

1)

Iwe Itan Ọyọ: A Traditional Yoruba History and Its Author
Author(s): Toyin Falọla, Michel R. Doortmont
The Journal of African History
Vol. 30, No. 2 (1989), pp. 301-329
http://www.jstor.org/stable/183070

2)

How Truly Traditional Is Our Traditional History? The Case of Samuel Johnson and the Recording of Yoruba Oral Tradition
Author(s): Robin Law
History in Africa
Vol. 11 (1984), pp. 195-221
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3171634

3)

THE "HAMITIC HYPOTHESIS" IN INDIGENOUS WEST AFRICAN HISTORICAL THOUGHT
Author(s): Robin Law
History in Africa
Vol. 36, (2009), pp. 293-314
http://www.jstor.org/stable/40864522

You can read these three by creating an account on JSTOR, and adding them to the "shelf" of your profile as the three free articles for every 14 days. Or if you're at an academic institution with a subscription to JSTOR, you can just access them (and multiple other articles) directly through the participating institution.


P.S.: On the Kisra and Borgu stuff, I think I commented briefly on that in a discussion with you from a long time ago. But an article you might want to read on that is the following:

P. F. de Moraes Farias, "A Letter from Ki-Tooro Mahaman Gaani, King of Busa (Borgu, northern Nigeria) about the 'Kisra' Stories of Origin (c. 1910)," Sudanic Africa 3 (1992)

You can access the article here: http://www.smi.uib.no/sa/03/sa3toc.html

And here's a direct link: http://www.smi.uib.no/sa/03/3Busa.pdf

There are of course many other interesting publications on Borgu and the Kisra legend and the origin and dispersal of that legend, but I think this one gives some important perspective and background information that could be useful when evaluating those stories.

I'm going to be pretty busy over the next week, so if I do respond to this thread, it won't be soon.

ogugua88,

Obama made a similar sort of joke (referencing Nigerian scams) himself, while he was running for office. It's hard to find an online source to show this now, since almost all that will come up now is articles/info on recent Cruz's joke, but Obama did make that kind of joke as well years ago. The only really significant difference between the two instances is that Obama's joke was only for laughs, and not to attack a political adversary.

Ted Cruz is a bit of a nutcase, and may even have some underlying racial biases pushing him to do and say some of the things he does, but there isn't some racial angle in the joke. Since he is a senator and a supposed future Republican president or vice president he obviously shouldn't make jokes at the expense of other countries/nationalities. But this guy isn't level headed to begin with, and it's unlikely that any amount of petitioning is going to change his inherently obnoxious personality. This guy is getting more attention from a few Nigerians than he could possibly merit and it's being made to seem as if more Nigerians care about what he said than is actually the case. People should let the whole issue rest.

₱®ÌИСΞ:



she has outlived her purpose imho i say we get anoda black chick...pretty one also

Michonne isn't there to be pretty (although she's not ugly or anything). She's just there to be badass. I don't think she's outlived her usefulness, story-wise or in any other way.

In fact, I'm still waiting for a second showdown between her and the Governor, so they can settle things once and for all.

Glad to see that the intensity of the show is picking up early on.

Also, Tyreese just got a serious reality check. Hopefully the writers will have him man up after what happened. His character is completely uninteresting when he's just acting dopey and lovestruck.

@ Mandarin, there are no Ikales nor Ilajes in Edo state except those that have might have moved there in modern/recent times.

As for the article from this author (who seems to be Ijaw), the whole thing is bogus. There's too much junk in an article of that length to pick it apart so I'm not going to bother. All I'll say is that it's clear that the author took bits and pieces from written material (already published by other authors - some of whom were merely speculating) on the traditions and cultures of various groups and molded them to fit his overall narrative.

tpia@:
Does the op have on a cowboy hat?

Didn't see the pic, but if he was wearing a Fulani straw hat, then that might be what you saw. The traditional straw hat of the Fulani bears some resemblance to the western cowboy hat. I remember looking through the Frobenius Institute's photo archive a long time ago and seeing some drawings made by members of one of Leo Frobenius's expeditions that showed some people from northern Nigeria - and some of these people were explicitly labeled as Fulani - from back then wearing traditional clothing that included hats that looked similar to cowboy hats. If I can find the images again, I'll post them here.

I remember being surprised at first upon seeing the drawings, but as I thought about it a bit more it started to make sense: the coincidence between the appearance of these two hats from different cultures may have to do with underlying similarities in the daily activities of cowboys and the daily activities of traditional Fulani herders. That sort of shape of hat may have been considered ideal for that kind of occupation/lifestyle.

1st episode was good. It didn't amaze me, but there were some exciting/interesting moments. I also like that Michonne still wants to take out the Governor, even after all the months that have passed by.

^
I don't care about whether you 'inject' yourself into such a conversation or are invited. The only issue here is that some of the things you wrote in that post I quoted are ignorant and ill informed, and you should stick to discussing only what you know. Correcting people who give themselves a false aura of being knowledgeable on something when they are actually clueless gets irritating after a while and I really don't have time for it nowadays.

^
I wasn't even talking about dynasties specifically and I don't care what your interests are or are not - I didn't even comment on that. Other things you wrote in that post that weren't even about dynasties showed total confusion and ignorance. So please stop writing junk about stuff you have never looked into and which you don't have any interest in doing any serious investigation on.

^

There's no "fanaticism" involved, it's just that some people on this site tend to write junk, and I feel that I might as well respond. You're not helping matters by also writing junk. Since you admit you don't know anything beyond what you read online, why keep pretending to be knowledgeable?

Dudu_Negro:

You people up in that Edo state are confused.

Bini is a class, it is the ruler-elite class unique to the palace. Bini is foreign to your land, which is Edo. Ive preached this to Physics time and again..........but instead of looking at oral history of Edo, you people prefer going to European chroniclers to explain who you are.

Edo is indigenous and the Ogiso came out of the Edo culture.

Bini is foreign and an Ife elite class that has continued to rule in Edo land, beginning centuries ago with Oranyan.

English language is not native to your land. Bini language today is a admixture of Yoruba and Edo. You are the majority in Edo state and you should standup and assert your majority instead of explaining it with apologies.

Tell Igbankes to begin learning your culture and language or they should join the National Conference talk and demand a reunion with Umuahaia.

There's so much confusion in what you've written that it would pointless to try and improve your understanding on this same topic that we've already discussed multiple times, especially when it's obvious that you've never made any serious attempt at "looking at oral history of Edo" beyond what you've read on the internet. I don't intend to get dragged into the same lame argument yet again.

The description of the event given by Ms. Gloria Adagbo is not accurate. I am not in the UK and did not attend - however, I have already seen a video clip from the 2013 gathering, posted on facebook, where a pastor is speaking. This pastor is speaking in English:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201894013771428

Yes, there may be more of Bini cultural representation and a large number of Binis speaking among themselves at such an event because the Bini may constitute the largest number of people from Edo state in the UK that are interested in attending that event. But to say that "every single sentence" could have been in Bini (Edo) is simply a lie. I wonder whether she actually attended the event. Either she attended the event and is deliberately misrepresenting it, or she didn't attend at all.

Apart from the video, which shows that at the 2013 event, speeches were obviously being given in English, there is clear evidence that the 2012 event could not have been conducted in 'Bini' (Edo) language:

A description of the 2012 event, available from a post on the facebook page for the event:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Edo-State-Day/235796323192918

Shows that

a) "Mr. Peter Ibiang Bassey, Counsellor Political Section, who represented the Nigeria High Commissioner to United Kingdom" was in attendance, and he gave a speech in which he "encouraged Edo State associations in UK to join CANUK in order to play a key role in advancing the needs of Nigerians in United Kingdom." Am I supposed to believe Mr. Bassey spoke any of the languages found in Edo state at that event?

b) Representatives of the governor of Edo state, Adams Oshiomhole, were at the event as well.

c) The Presidents of the Esan Community Association United Kingdom, Afemai Union of United Kingdom, and the Ewossa Community Association (UK), were all part of the organizing committee for the 2012 event.

d) Performances were given by people from the Afemai and Esan areas of Edo state, not just from the Bini areas:

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/405268_275519239220626_815138281_n.jpg

I think it's rather obvious that most (if not all) speeches would have been in English both in 2012 and 2013, and that Ms. Adagbo is telling tall tales. If the 2012 event was organized by, and included speeches and performances from multiple non-Bini individuals, it makes no sense to assume that the 2013 event was solely an affair conducted in the 'Bini' (Edo) language, especially when there is already evidence of a pastor speaking in English at the 2013 event.

Furthermore, is there an Igbanke association in the UK? If there is, they obviously could have been part of the organizing committee and thus had some cultural representation, speeches, or performances from people from their group. Of course, if it's the case that the vast majority of the Igbanke don't want to be in Edo state, as Ms. Adagbo makes it seem, that might explain why they were reluctant to contribute to an event about Edo state and why they didn't have a role in organizing the event.

That said, while I don't have any real issue with Igbanke being transferred out of Edo state (that's just me personally, some other people might object), I think people should realize that some of the supposedly linguistically homogenous states in Nigeria are not actually perfectly homogenous, and include speakers of languages that are from language groups other than the majority group of the state - this doesn't just apply to Edo state but to some other states as well. So it's not necessarily some conspiracy against Igbanke that they wound up in Edo state.

Looking forward to this. Hope they start the season off with something exciting.

DerideGull:
I have said you can not even fool a kindergarten pupil about your partiality in this discussion so I suggest you stop pretending to be neutral observer. During the era in discussion, the armed forces of the Nigeria have not been properly departmentalized as many army boys were seconded to air force hence officers such as Andrew Nwankwo was still referred official gazette as Captain instead of Flt Lieutenant.

However, Dede1 made sure that such ambiguity was curtailed by listing the navy and air force ranks in brackets. Although a tribal and partisan participant such as you who is blinded by tribal bias could not make out differences in the list provided by Dede1.

Thanks for the explanation (lieutenant in the navy, not captain, etc.), but it seems like you missed the overall point, which is that you were unclear about whether you were putting forward a list of Army officers (which would make sense to compare to Luckham's statistic), or a list of officers from the entire armed forces (which would not make sense to compare to Luckham's statistic). I assumed it was meant to be a list of army officers (because of your title for the list, where you said the names were all of army officers), but you included people who were not army officers in 1966 - I noticed this when I saw Ozumba and Ukiwe's names, but I should have noticed it earlier from the Flight Lieutenants and Squadron Leaders indicated, and I should have realized these people had these ranks by 1966. I think it should be obvious how this total ambiguity on just what it is you are disagreeing about is a problem as far as your comparison of your list with Luckham's stats and as far as your overall disagreement with Katsumoto.

The armed forces had been departmentalized by 1966 so I'm not sure what your point there about Nwankwo etc. is supposed to be. Was the statistic about officers in the Army in Jan. 1966 or was it about "officers in the army during a certain era"? It was about officers in the army in Jan. 1966. Perhaps if this wasn't clear before, it's clear now - there is not any ambiguity in the book about what the statistic is actually about.

remark D: Hey, if you don't mind, can you tell me where to get the book? Purchase it, I mean... and which other book or books about the civil war do you recommend or think gives a balanced view or perspective, but detailed accounts of the events leading up to and up until just after the war... early 70s to 80 or mid 80s... thanks in advance.

I don't make it a point to read lots of books on the civil war or the 1960s coups honestly. Not really an area of huge focus for me, so you're probably better off asking somebody else.

I did read Max Siollun's 2009 book a while back and it seemed balanced to me (but others may disagree), although that book isn't specifically about the civil war.

For Luckham's book, I would just search for it on worldcat.org and get it at the library nearest to you - that's what I did; I didn't buy Luckham's book. But if you really want to buy it, it would probably have to be ordered online - abebooks.com, or amazon should have copies available.

DerideGull:
You have started once on this forum that you have never stepped onto a parade ground in your life. May ask you how you identify a combat and non-combat officer? Even there are combat engineers and medical corps in every armed force.

In this discussion, your insincerity and lack of objectivity know no boundaries. You can not even fool a kindergarten pupil on you assumed impartiality.

The one of the problems of Africans is their inability to think outside the box. There relevance about the list of Yoruba and Edo officers is to form a benchmark in order to gauge the correctness of the figures provided by the British named Robin Luckham. We must try to embrace the truth and sincerity in Nigeria instead of hiding behind tribal bias and intellectual laziness.

So that there's no confusion, let me repeat it and see if this time you'll get it: the list of Yoruba officers alone, or the list of Edo officers alone by Jan. 1966 has no relevance to the particular problem at the root of the disagreement you were/are having with Katsumoto.

There are two lists that would be relevant if one is trying to determine the percentage of a certain ethnic group (Igbo) among the officers: (1) the list of all the officers regardless of ethnicity, and (2) the list of all the officers belonging to one specific ethnicity (Igbo, in this case) whose percentage of the officers one is trying to determine.

If one has the list of all Yoruba officers, and the list of all Edo officers, and the list of all Igbo officers, that still would not mean that one can determine the percentage of Igbo officers out of the all the officers, nor would it mean that one can assume that they can "gauge" what the total number is or the percentage of the Igbo officers in the total. There were a whole lot of other ethnic groups in Nigeria in 1966 (and there still are), in case you forgot.

Also, I thought it would be obvious that the list of Yoruba officers specifically, or Edo officers specifically, would be contained within the list of all officers regardless of ethnicity anyway, but I guess I should have stated the obvious.

On this part: "May ask you how you identify a combat and non-combat officer? Even there are combat engineers and medical corps in every armed force."

I don't know what your criteria are for what constitutes a combat officer, but it's clear from Luckham's book that he doesn't consider units from the medical corps or engineers to be combat units (but instead considers them support units), nor does he refer to officers of those units as combat officers. That isn't the way he uses the term (he doesn't use it in an inclusive manner), and I think quibbling over that would just be getting into semantics since we both know what he really means anyway.

@ Katsumoto, interesting response, although I'm still not really convinced about the merit of that idea. I would explain why I disagree with that overall interpretation here, but the discussion would probably get too lengthy. Thanks for explaining your view on Luckham's analysis though.

@ DerideGull,

Whenever you return to the thread, I have another question, and I hope you can explain this to me because something seems a bit puzzling about your current list right now. You mentioned Captain A.G. Ozumba in your list that you posted earlier in this thread. But wasn't A.G. Ozumba a captain in the Nigerian Navy, not the Army? I have the same question about Captain E Ukiwe that you mentioned as well. If I am mistaken on this count, please give a correction and an explanation of when they became officers in the Navy or if they never did. It seems some of those on your list were in the armed forces, but not in the Army.

I went back to look at Luckham's book (because I thought I might be able to discover how you and Luckham were arriving at different figures on a rather simple and straightforward question), only to find that those particular statistics in Luckham's book (511 officers, 330 of these being combat status officers) are for the Army, not the entire military and he explicitly says that he's referring only to the Army, not the entire Armed Forces, in those instances where he's talking about those 330 officers.

I suspect that you and Katsumoto can come closer to reaching a consensus on this issue if it is made more explicit whether you guys are talking about one particular branch of the armed forces (the Army) or about the entire military. Honestly, it's not clear which of these two groups (the Army, or the entire military) this officers disagreement between you and Katsumoto was truly about and I think that in the course of your debates, it may have become unclear which group (the Army alone, or the entire military) was being considered. For example, in your post earlier in this thread where you listed those Igbo officers, before the names in the list, you wrote above that:

"Igbo Officers in Nigerian Army as of January 15, 1966 by Dede1"

So one would think that you really meant the Nigerian Army. However, in your most recent comment towards me, where you quoted me, you said:

"Dede1 has painstakingly listed the names and ranks of Igbo officers in Nigerian armed forces from Major General to Captain as of January 15, 1966"

So, in this instance, one would think you really meant the entire Nigerian armed forces.

There seems to be a disconnect between those two statements.

I guess the issue really is, what are you and Katsumoto disagreeing about - the ethnic composition of the officers in the Nigerian Army as of January 1966, or the ethnic composition of the officers in the entire Nigerian Armed Forces as of January 1966?


@ Katsumoto,

What do you think of the part in pp. 47-50 of the book (in the section called 'The spectre of tribalism'), where Luckham casts serious doubt (with what I think is a rather convincing argument) on the idea of it being an "Igbo coup"? I remember we discussed this issue before a long time ago, but I think Luckham makes a better argument than I did against the idea (although he doesn't talk much about the political climate in that particular section of the book). Is there some particular reason that you think Luckham's doubts (against the "Igbo coup" idea) are misguided or unconvincing?

DerideGull:


Dede1 has painstakingly listed the names and ranks of Igbo officers in Nigerian armed forces from Major General to Captain as of January 15, 1966, the number has already trumped the total number the goofy British named Robin Luckham got from Nigeria during the war, yet PhysicsQED and Katsumoto are in doubt.

I have asked the doubters to produce their lists of Edo and Yoruba Officers of Nigerian armed forces prior to January 15, 1966 or shut their putrid mouths. Since PhysicsQED has been busy talking about Official Gazettes, it will settle issue if PhysicsQED could provide the Official Gazettes so the few donkeys that jumped onto this thread could judge for them selves.

I hate Nigeria because of people such as PhysicsQED and Katsumoto who seemed to embrace intellectual laziness. Certain issues that engulfed Nigeria and were propagated by rumors and innuendos fueled by tribal bias spurred me to embark on exploratory research on the formatives years of Nigeria.

I think you're not being objective here. Yes, you "painstakingly" compiled the list, but your research so far has not been "painstaking" enough.

In the first place, you said repeatedly that the list you posted does not even include all the Igbo officers as of Jan. 1966 - so it's clearly not meant to be a list of all the Igbo officers, whether combat status or non-combatant. ('Dede1 still have hundreds of Igbo officers from the ranks of Lieutenant to Second Lieutenant that were not listed.' - your earlier post)

At the same time, the list you originally posted still included some non-combatant officers - so it wasn't even meant to be a list of just the combat status officers either.

When you take the time to

a) actually form a list that includes all the Igbo officers as of Jan. 1966, whether combat status or non-combatant

and

a) compare such a list to a list of all the Nigerian officers as of Jan. 1966, regardless of ethnicity


or


b) actually form a list that includes all the combat-status Igbo officers only

and

b) compare such a list to a list of all the combat-status Nigerian officers as of Jan. 1966, regardless of ethnicity


Then you can determine what the percentage was (of combat status officers, or of all officers) that was Igbo and determine whether or not the existing published statistics that have been referenced previously are flawed. Until you make an actual comparison, it doesn't seem that there's much significance to your list just by itself. It seems to me that the burden of proof is on you (to disprove the existing statistics), but you don't seem willing to carry out (b) above, and for some strange reason, think your list alone is enough.

By the way, even if I had had some serious interest in this (rather minor) detail to begin with, I can't see myself scanning and uploading all the Official Gazettes of the government from the 1950s to 1966, if I'm not going to publish something on that. However, I think I've actually done you a favor - if you actually wish to attempt to debunk Luckham's research, or put your claims on firmer ground, I've directed you (and another poster) in this thread to exactly the resource to use to do that.

pazienza:

Physics just like you,had long been exposed for his dishonesty on biafra issue, with both of you being inlove with omogui propaganda articles, don't think for once any one here takes him as a neutral observer, neither him, you, luckham,etc can be taken serious, you can only clear this issue by providing the full list of the military corp members, failure to do that can only mean neither of you have acess to the so called list. Physics spoke of luckham getting his source from the Nigerian gazzette or something like that, well, anybody can post anything as his source,in that case,post the list from luckham so called source, if you can't do that, then neither you,luckham,physics,etc,are to be taken serious.

Actually, I only ever recall quoting an Omoigui article once in any discussion involving Biafra or the civil war, so I can't see how anyone could infer that I was "in love" with his articles relating to the civil war, when I've referenced those articles less than Dede1 has (Dede1 has referenced material in Omoigui's articles before to support points in his arguments without just referencing the material merely to disparage it, although you might have forgotten that). Also, it seems obvious to me that it's not good enough to simply dismiss all the information in an article just because of the author (Omoigui) without at least checking (other sources) to see whether or not that information is correct.

Furthermore, it's not sensible to assume that a difference of opinion or interpretation is automatically equal to dishonesty. I don't expect that we're going to agree on much about that era in Nigeria's history (the 60s), but I don't have to assume that you're being dishonest when you have a different viewpoint about things.

Finally, if you want to inspect those Official Gazettes directly to confirm whether or not Luckham is interpreting them correctly, they are actually available in libraries:

http://www.crl.edu/collections/topics/official-gazettes/search?countryID=NIGERIA%20%28BRITISH%20FEDERATION%29
http://www.crl.edu/collections/topics/official-gazettes/search?titleID=t467&pc=1

http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/34366973?q=nigeria+official+gazette&c=article&versionId=42436095
http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpregion/africa/nigeria/acnigeria/

And they're sure to be archived somewhere in Nigeria as well, if you are in Nigeria right now and don't plan to travel out of the country - though you may have to contact people in government to see where they're archived (I'm not sure of where exactly they're available in Nigeria). These are obviously going to be pretty lengthy, so you'll probably have to do quite a bit of reading to confirm or refute what Luckham published, if you're up for it. Anyway, I'm not sure why you think Luckham would list those sources repeatedly if he was afraid somebody might actually check them. That doesn't make much sense to me. I would check them myself and post the relevant parts of their contents here, but that much reading and searching for information on an issue (the officers' ethnic composition) that I have only a marginal interest in would not be worth it.

Katsumoto:

Thanks for your post.

1. Dede1 made the claim of 87% of officer corp being Igbo, when I challenged him, he revised to 67% and subsequently revised to 50%. Going by the number of revisions it is very clear he doesn't know what he is talking about. If he had simply said a majority, there wouldn't have been any problems.

2. Robin Luckham provided various distributions in his book based mainly on the number of combatant soldiers. He provided a breakdown on page 190 (table 37) according to region and by rank. This gave Ndigbo I person above the rank of Colonel, 5 Lt Cols, 21 Majors, 15 Captains, 20 Lieutenants, and 42 2nd Lieutenants totalling 104 officers out of 330 combatant soldiers.

3. Since Luckham did not provide the distribution including non-combatant soldiers, I used the distribution provided in Norman Miners book on page 119. This distribution gave Ndigbo approximately 40% of all officers but you will agree with me that 40% is far from 67% and much farther from 87%.

4. I have provided in the past that both Miners and Luckham obtained their states from the Nigerian Official Gazettes but Dede1 in his usual manner dismissed this.

5. Dede can not explain to us how he arrived at his percentages so there really isn't a debate here except a public flogging which I have been giving to him on this subject since 2011.

Well, after reading this, I have to say that unless Dede1 can show that the Official Gazettes were factually incorrect or they were interpreted incorrectly, it doesn't seem that he has much of an argument to make about what the percentage really was.

I've been watching this thread for a little while, and after seeing the officers argument between Katsumoto and Dede1/DerideGull come up yet again, I decided to actually look at Luckham's 1971 book.

What I saw is that Luckham notes in the book that as of January of 1966, the Nigerian army had only 511 officers, and of these 511, 330 were of combat status (see page 90 of the book). So actually Luckham was well aware of the fact that there were more than 330 officers in the Nigerian army as of January 1966 and he does not claim that there were only 330 officers.

I think this may be at least part of the reason for this unresolved dispute on the ethnic composition of the officers between Katsumoto and Dede1 - the discussion so far does not seem to have taken into account whether or not combat status officers alone are being considered, or whether the number also includes non-combatant officers. Perhaps if it was made explicit which group was being considered - all officers or just the combat status officers - some sort of consensus could be reached.

On the issue of Luckham's sources for his information, if one actually looks at Luckham's book, they will see that all of the figures, numbers, etc. for the various statistics for the military are actually from Nigerian sources from the 1960s, such as the gazettes of the Nigerian government that were published on the respective dates which the author is referencing (the Official Gazettes of 1960-1966, etc.). So if the data Luckham quoted was inaccurate, it would mean that the data from each year of the 1960s (prior to 1967) put out by the federal government was itself inaccurate, and this would have little bearing on Luckham's objectivity or competence as a researcher, since the fault would lie not with him, but with the secretaries, civil servants, etc. of the government of the First Republic.

lol, Bondarenko is good (a good researcher), but a few of his articles are riddled with confusions and misunderstanding of the source material - sometimes due to his over-reliance on certain types of already published sources at the expense of doing more firsthand investigation like Bradbury, Ben-Amos, Nevadomsky, etc. did. I would comment at length on some of his interpretations and mistakes, but I couldn't do it here, since I might decide to publish something on that eventually.

Radoillo: You must have guessed I'm Igbo. My interest is in Southern Nigerian history generally, especially the inter-relations between igbo-speaking peoples and their neighbours.

My profile picture doesn't really mean anything in particular. I just like how the 'artist' put sunshades on the sculpture.

I didn't think you were Igbo until I read where you said you were.

And you didn't really answer my question, but that's okay.

Radoillo, I do have another question, if you don't mind my asking. You seem to have some interest in Benin's past and even seem to have taken the time to read at least part of one of Egharevba's publications. And then there's that peculiar picture in your profile. What exactly is your interest in the history of that kingdom? I'm just curious, given some of your previous comments.

Actually Radoillo, I just saw the source of the Ogiso list that includes "Odia" and "Ighido" and it's some book with an alternate list of names of the Ogiso rulers. Anyway, that list isn't the one I'm familiar with, so I thought the names were just from wikipedia.

@ Radoillo, I'm not sure if your source for the names you listed was wikipedia, but if it was, my advice is to be a bit more wary about information obtained from there (or other not-so-official online sources). There was no Ogiso named Odia nor was there one named Ighido, and the actual list of the first five is different.

Edited: never mind

alj harem: I mean binis still use Yoruba names such as Tunde, mayowa, omo, dele, Ojo, abeo etc so what's to say oba is not yoruba ?

We just went over this 'omo' thing. Are you trolling now, or just being obstinate for no reason?

It's simply unintelligent to claim "omo" as exclusively Yoruba.

Radoillo: Hope I haven't somehow angered u or anyone with my comments. Would hate to do that.

No, not angered, I was just a bit perplexed.