₦airaland Forum

df2006:
my friend your thoughts are still shallow, go expand your mind, do more thinking and you won,t be posting this kind of thread.

I noticed. Cheers.

helpee:
of course he fulfilled it but at what cost?
At the cost of the world peace! if that promise had come earlier, he wouldnt have slept with the slave and there will be no muslims, no osama bin laden or religious differences. don't you think the promise came too late. a lot of harm had been done

My point is made: Abraham does not belong to your herbalist alternative support programme (HASP). QED.

@helpee,

helpee:
he said hebrews 7;18 not 7;8

Please grow up - I wasn't trying to correct his quote of Heb. 7:18 by quoting ch. 7:8 - they are two different things.

(1) Heb. 7:18 - "For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before. ." etc.

(2) Heb. 7:8   - "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, . ." etc.

Just because you can't make out the difference does not mean you have to force yourself to comment on all my posts. That is just plain childish.

helpee:
no my dear. you always quote me out of context. what you don't know is that wether you seek herbalist or not, once you derail from what God said, you have sinned. seeking herbalist is not different from sleeping with your slave. the bottom line is that you are looking for alternative solution. solomon sought strange gods when God was not forthcoming. so also was Saul and many other like that. the bottom like is this, they left God in search of alternative solution.

If your point is that Abraham derailed by sleeping with a slave girl (no insults to the Egyptians), I can well bear with you. What you should understand is that God made him a promise and He fulfilled His promise.

helpee:
@PILGRIMAGE
did you read the encyclopedic link you provided.
they said satanist are technically atheist.
so you even agree with me with the so called other definitions.
alright baby, i love you for hiding your agreement with my position behind a link.

Go back and read it again and see that I don't agree with you.

jennykadri:
i wonder when God stopped answering prayers,especially if the prayer is prayed whole heartedly

Abi O.

helpee:
he didnt need to; he already knew the solution. sleep with the slave

I think you assume too much and often weave issues to drive your views. The point is made: Abraham did not seek your alternative solution of herbalist, and one would wonder how you connect him to your theory. Anyhow, enjoy your ideology and pursue your herbalist solution. Take care.

Hi @lelele,

lelele:
Nie readin yr posts, feel u ar a devout Christian. wuld b nice if we culd chat on messenger.

That's great to know. I'll make my email contact available on my profile for a day or two and hope to see you anytime soon on YIM. Blessings.

helpee:
don't talk about Abraham because he also looked for alternative solution by impregnating a slave girl.

Frank question: did Abraham consult a herbalist?

KunleOshob:
Hebrews 7: 18 describes tithing as a weak, useless and unprofitable law

Hebrews 7:8 says 'but there He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth'.

Psalm 5:7

But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy:
and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

helpee:
i beg to differ. OBAMA is indeed a lucky guy. an average American is a workaholic and obama has not proved that he is different. a first time senator whose greatest credential was a speech delivered in 2004. if you know any other achievement of obama please tell me.

People have the right to differ on political and other issues - as on this one. The problem is that some are sounding as if he sat on his lazy backside and just pumped straight to popularity. Speech or no speech, how many "average" Americans sit down and fold their arms to become senators?

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for saving me.

@Omenuko,

Omenuko:
I don't believe he was saying Jesus is guilty of anything. I thought Muslims had great respect for Jesus and the holy family (Mary and Joseph). He just asked as simple and logical question.

Good morning, and I trust you continue to enjoy God's grace upon your life. Anyhow, it is true that many Muslims have great "respect" for Jesus; but in reality, they do not. Let me explain - by default, they would pretend to do so just to get your attention; but they truly don't give two scoobies about Him when further scrutinized. What dear Olabowale posted is a mild version of such manifestations: I bet you, he would never - I repeat "NEVER' - be so brash in speaking that way about Muhammad. Never! I know what I'm saying because that's where I grew up from; and only a queer Muslim would deny the fact even if evidence is presented right before his nose.

The one thing here is this, whatever respect anyone says he accords the Lord Jesus Christ, I still don't see how his "logic" would accuse Him of being guilty of anything. Just imagine any Christian using that same logic on Muhammad!

Anyhow, what is the bottomline is that only Jesus Christ is my MASTER (Matthew 23:8 & 10): there's no other. There's no logic round that fact - it's either He's the only Master, or He's not. For many, He may not be: and that's okay with them. For me, if I had remained in my former religion, it won't change the fact that Jesus is Lord.

Omenuko:
Off topic, I can say one thing though. . . .you would make a good catholic if ever you became one. What church do you attend?

Lol, for reasons beyond my control, I can't publicly say what church I attend (especially for the sake of the muslims that I continue to reach out to). Suffice to say that it's not Catholic, and we're taught to state our persuasions without felings of disaffection towards anyone.

Many blessings.

Bolajiosho:
Obama is just a lucky guy that turns out to be popular over night.

Ye right! He wasn't lucky - the bloke worked rreeeeaal hard to be where he is today!!

@Ruby_Pearl,

[quote author=Ruby_Pearl link=topic=159075.msg2871081#msg2871081 date=1222730044]With each passing seconds, with each breath I take, I know you're here for me, Lord.
I know that you're a God that does not disappoint me in front of my enemies, and for that I grateful thank you.
Please instill in me knowledge, wisdom and understanding, esp. when I walk and sit in that room on Wed.
Put my enemies to shame oh Lord. Whatever kind of evil or wretchedness that is sent my way, send it back to them in 10x.
Thank you Lord for listening.[/quote]Go forth in Jesus' Name - God's covering you and nothing shall stumble you. Your testimony will glorify His Name, refresh your heart, establish you in His blessings with an enduring peace. It is well, Jesus is Lord.

Hi @idupaul,

Great to read from you this morning. Just came to drop a line of encouragement when I saw you've been here already. Lol, davidylan was teasing you, I'm sure. But even so, you still remain in our prayers. Blessings - Jesus is Lord.

@Nimshi,

Nimshi:
A clarification is needed here. You wrote: "Adam was "son of God" by virtue of his having being created by God"; that is true. But isn't everything created by God? If the only reason Adam is called 'son of God' is because he was created by God, how come all other male humans are not called "sons of God"?

The genealogy traces right back to the first man created in God's image, hence the appellation. There is a different sense in which all men (in the generic sense) share in that relationship to God, in the sense that we are all created in God's image. Even after the Fall, men (generic) are still addressed as having been created in the image of God (Gen. 9:6; James 3:9). In that context, even non-Christians innately recognize this relationship - thus, we find such non-Christian poets who have referred to men as the offspring of God (Acts 17:28).

Consequently, the Bible recognizes that men are created in the image of God; and in that sense, they are thought of as the "offspring" of God, not in any connotation of siring/sexual involvement, but rather because all men stand as Adam's posterity. It is on account of this that Adam is regarded as the "first man" in contrast to "the last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45).

Hence, in answer to your concerns, all men (generic - male and female) are created by God in His image: as such, they are referred to as the "offspring of God" (without any sexual connotations). However, not all men were created in exactly the same way as Adam was created (Gen. 2:7), for which reason he carries that appellation as son of God (Luke 3:38). Further, Adam was not son of God on the same basis as others are referred to by that appellation - such as the angels, Israel, or believers in Christ.

helpee:
Did you not quote that demons believe also in God and they tremble? Are you beginning to contradict yourself all in one evening?
i can't possibly see any contradiction there.
have you ever seen a politician tell a lie before in order to confuse and convince you.
of course demons believe in God in the sense that they know he exist but they will deny him so that people will not believe.
WE ALL KNOW THAT OBASANJO BELIEVED IN 3RD TERM BUT HE DENIED IT. that is no contradiction

For someone to deny the existence of God and another to believe that God exists are worlds apart.

@helpee,

helpee:
so the simple truth is that you don't even know who a satanist is hence you can't possibly know who a satanist is not?

I gave you a definition. If you ignored it because you want to force the title of satanist on everyone who does not fall into your camp, I can bear with you.

helpee:
in your previous post you said that because Bill Gate is not on the register of the church of satan, he is therefore not a
satanist.

I pointed out that Bill Gates hasn't told you that he is a satanist, nor does he ascribe credit to the devil.

helpee:
the very essence of the devil is to deny the existence of God.

Did you not quote that demons believe also in God and they tremble? Are you beginning to contradict yourself all in one evening?

helpee:
it takes somebody that is well rooted in the devil to actually believe there is no God. when JESUS wanted to cast out those demons, they begged him to send them to the swine.

The possessed man was not an atheist, nor did those demons cry out that they do not believe in God. As a matter of fact they referred to Christ as "Jesus, thou Son of God most high" (Luke 8:28). Does that sound like one claiming that there is no God?

helpee:
Do you know why? devil is like HIV, it can't survive outside the body fluid. so also is man and everything God created. you can't just be on your own. so, if you seriously believe there is no God, it is because you seriously believe in an alternative satan.

I am not an atheist.

helpee:
my dear, atheist are satanist. pronto.

I hear. They will tell you by themselves who they are.

@A_K_O,

Seen it, thanks.

@helpee,

helpee:
i want you to show me a single scripture where God called anybody satanist.

I already said I do not find where God's Word referred to atheists as satanists. Do you have such a verse?

helpee:
because some people called themselves the church of satan does not mean there is anything like that in the bible and it doesn't make them more satanic than atheist.

I didn't say that "the church of satan" was in the Bible; nor did I say that atheists are more or less satanic.

helpee:
so tell me, who did God ever called a satanist?

Depends on the definition of the term satanist. Try this one: "they worshipped the dragon" - Rev. 13:4.

helpee:
what is your own criteria for knowing a satanist?

One who declares himself to be a worshipper of satan the devil. Of course, there are other definitions used by other people; but I don't equate atheists to be satanists.

Dear brother A_K_O,

Thanks for redirecting me here and for your graceful answers. I was a bit forward there and thought it was just about time that we raise such issues. I appreciate we all have busy lives, and your wisdom is appreciated.

God enrich and bless you.

@helpee,

helpee:
@PILGRIM
i must confess that you displaying a new kind of Christianity.
a firebrand christian that will go and look for incompatible scriptures to defend atheist.
i don't want this to be boring otherwise i will start quoting scriptures for you too to prove my point.
alright. i agree with you. atheist are not satanist they must christian then.
no diversion here. let us agree that BILL GATES IS AN ATHEIST SO ALSO BUFFET.
the question is WHY IS IT THAT THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS?
WHY WONT GOD GIVE SUCH KNOWLEDGE AND WEALTH TO HIS PEOPLE RATHER THAN ALLOW UNBELIEVERS TO ENJOY EVERYTHING?

The whole issue you have been struggling with is to make people who do not believe in God to be called satanists. I'm not one of those "Christian" to do so - because the Word of God does not teach such a thing. If it did, I would post the verses for you. Now, if there is no such verses, why would I falsely call them satanists? Is that not lying against people?

Now, the question of why God gives wealth to people:

I believe that spirituality is not measured by wealth and materialism. There are all sorts of people who are wealthy - theists, atheists, satanists, deists, and agnostics, you name them. However, if we work hard and qualify oursleves educationally, we can be comfortable in life regardless of what worldviews we hold.

So, what's the difference? The difference is that when it comes to the deepest questions of the soul, man's experiences take a very different dimension - spirituality. There is something about knowing and enjoying fellowship with God such as money cannot buy. And when we even ask "WHY WONT GOD GIVE SUCH KNOWLEDGE AND WEALTH TO HIS PEOPLE," I don't think that He "won't" give such knowledge to His people.

The word clearly says:  "But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day." [Deut. 8:18]

So, what's the problem? Perhaps one possible reason is that so many of us have not taken the time to calm down and work hard enough to utilize that power. Thankfully, though, we have a lot of Christians who are role-models in this aspect of life: they are scientists, politicians, policy-formulators, investors, inventors, business owners and media moguls. Yes, there are many of such Christian men and women. Yet, God does not rule by making non-believers poor and destitute.

Hi @A_K_O,

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=177098.msg2870550#msg2870550 date=1222719541]Off-topic, rhetorical

Why do you guys always feel obliged to reply Olabowale?[/quote]Perhaps it were better to caution Olabowale to respect himself and not ask us why we feel obliged to reply him. If a Christian went to the Muslim section and began to say the same things he often litters Christian threads with, the poster would be banned pronto, the thread removed or the post itself deleted. Why is it so necessary to allow Olabowale such leeway to keep disrespecting the convictions of other people and we are all pretending that no one should feel obliged to reply him?

I think even those who are not Christians have made this observation many times; but we have all been cordial, respectful, and as far as I can speak for myself, I have not been attraced to go over to the muslim section to post anything there. A_K_O, please don't be offended; but I'm sure a lot of people would be wondering that these issues go roundly ignored and you're the same person asking us that question. I don't get your point, really.

Anyhow, nobody feels obliged to reply to Olabowale - and the remarks anyone (including myself) have made in reply to his unwarranted attitude is to make him understand that just because Christians have been quiet all along does not mean anyone can be taken for a fool. What is so remarkable about such attitudes from him that we have to always be subjected to his own constant detractions? He has carried this attitude for long - when I replied, fiam! my posts are deleted pronto. . . several times. Lately, I have asked him a simple question:

            What has pilgrim.1 done to muslims that they would not let her be?

That is my own way of calling people like you to notice that Olabowale's attitude should not be ignored with questions such as you ask. I think for fairness sake, if Christians are not welcome to post anything in the Muslim section, then Muslims should respect their section and enjoy what has been reserved for them. We don't mind anyone coming over to share issues with us - I have enjoyed good exchanges and insights with atheists on the forum; I have rejected outright the sort of posts that demonizes atheists as satanists. I'm sure that several Christians posting in this section have dialogued with atheists peacefully. Why then this particular case with Olabowale?

Well, dear A_K_O, thank you for your remarks - I for one appreciate and respect it. I cannot go beyond this and hope that you don't mind me much and continue to enjoy your valuable help as moderator in this section.

God bless you.

@Frizy,

Frizy:
Ignorance is indeed the worst of all diseases. That book called the "dreams and interpretation" was based on the koranic and sunnatic understanding. The fact that you don't have a clue on what your dreams meant and call it stupid doesn't apply to all.

Trying to sound intelligent is not the same thing as being intelligent. First off, there's nothing like "sunna[b]tic[/b]" - it just doesn't 'tick', okay? That's like the disease of ignorance you pointed out. Sunna understanding is more like it, no need to make it "tic". You can have 'Quranic'; but don't extend it to make the sunna to 'tic' anywhere - it doesn't! Simplicity is virtue, not vice!

That said, my observation still stands, as Nimshi aptly pointed:

Nimshi:
You're not a dream interpreter, yet, you're already interpreting, Frizy

How? Because you're already telling him that:

Frizy:
Like I said am not a dream interpreter but from your explanation it seems to me that Allah wants you to accept faith and believe in Him.

You're already telling him what 'Allah' wants to do while at the same time saying you're not interpreting. Hmm, relax. Like I said: Trying to sound intelligent is not the same thing as being intelligent.

@javalove,

javalove:
also,

if a someone dies denying Allah and his prophet, he/she is hell bound.

What difference does it make anyway? Is it not Islam that teaches that the majority of those in Hell are WOMEN?!? What's the point of sliding back to Islam when it only promises women to be the majority in hell?

Dear sir, I have promised not to discuss Islam on the forum, that is why I have been inviting people who want to speak to me about these issues to get in touch by email (p_romanio@yahoo.com). In a friendly manner, I would share with you these matters and more about why I left your religion peacefully for you.

javalove:
Islam preaches love, peace and sincerity.

Then what has pilgrim.1 done to Muslims that they would not let her live her life in peace, love and sincerity? I don't see how you're representing your belief system by you guys pushing your luck to dog my footsteps everywhere.

javalove:
You also lied whn u said Islam says we should hate xtians and jews.

That's okay - it's not the first time that Muslims have accused me of lying. Remember one Mr. Abdul who greeted me 3 times with that same appellation in capital letters? All I did was thank him and shared the answers with him on the forum. I haven't heard from him since then. I will not treat you in the same way; but you can reach me outside the forum so that I can share the answers with you amicably, God bless.

javalove:
What ever that made u arrive at this conclusion, i would love to know.

Get in touch - I extend a friendly invitation to you to do so.

javalove:
Also know that the world is not islam friendly.

Nor has the world been a friendly place for Christians - especially in Muslim countries. I know that so well, sir.

javalove:
The most unpeaceful countries in the world are the muslim countries, no doubt.

Thanks for acknowledging the fact. What more do I say?

javalove:
Who caused the unpeacefulness there, the xtians.

That is another confirmation of the accusation against Christians and Jews that I used to fabricate until God touched my heart. Why is it difficult for you guys to live your lives without seeking to blame the state of the Muslim world on Christians and Jews? How many Christian missionaries are working in the Muslim world to bring love, hope and dignity to Muslim world - Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc? What do the Muslim authorities do to those Christians bringing them such help?

javalove:
They have their own problems too but believe me those problems are strotyped.

I hear, thank you. I used to believe such pretensions until Christ opened my eyes.

javalove:
When a muslim does something good, his tribe or family or personality is praised. When he does a bad thing, his faith is attacked!!!!!!!!

I hear. I was praised when I did so many bad things against Christians and Jews; but when my heart was softened to love and respect them, it was Muslims who descended on me! Guess what? I still love the Muslims till tomorrow with the love of Jesus Christ!

javalove:
All i can say again is May Allah have mercy on your soul!!! Sincerely i feel like crying for u

If your tears are tears of joy, by all means rejoice with me. But crying for me is a bit understandable - because Jesus broke every barrier that anyone could put in front or behind me according to your quote of "QCh 36". Do you want to know that saving grace as well? It is available also today. . . this minute, if you would believe that Jesus is the MESSIAH and receive Him into your heart as such! Jesus is Lord.

God bless you.

@javalove,

Have you exhausted yourself now? So, can I reply you after you have let hot air escape through the ears? Please calm down.

javalove:
pilgrims!!!

Jesus is a creation. The creator should be worshipped not his creation. I v been reading ur stories but u are only trying to make people reason with u by adding emotions. I can do better than that.

Please do better than me by all means. Salvation in Christ is not by force nor is it a competition, sir. Nobody reading my testimony is stupid to fall for any "emotion" if that is what they thought was in my sharing; so it seems you're the only one shouting here?

javalove:
If its convert stories u want to read, meeen u go taya!!!! I'm talking about converts that saw the light of Allah, who converted based on conviction. A friend of mone just accepted Islam too. @babs787 wasnt born a muslim, he accepted Islam and we are not bragging it.

Dear sir, babs787 is not part of my testimony, so I'm not here to post anything about him. he has also shared his testimony, and if nothing came of it, what is my worry? You have a serious problem not being able to understand that this is not about bragging. As you can see, there are still many more issues to share with others; but I'm not in a rush to do so - so where's the bragging?

javalove:
Replying you won't change anything. Only Allah can.

Well, it's going to be a long wait, my dear sir. I'm not here to speak about allah, but about the power of love I found in Jesus Christ.

javalove:
Think of life, God, creations, Heaven and Hell. Think of the grave too. Think of the day you will meet your lord, only you will.

I have thought carefully about all those and more, and I'm content to know that nothing can pluck me out of HIS Hands ~~

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." -- [John 10:28]

javalove:
May Allah have mercy on ur soul !!!

Thank you - the mercy I found in Jesus meets my every need.

@helpee,

helpee:
so what did jesus say about the church? he said if they are neither warm or cold. warm means they accept jesus and cold means they are satanist. neither warm or cold means they are atheist.

Please go read Revelation 3 from verse 14 - nowhere did Jesus accuse anyone of what you're forcing into that scripture.

helpee:
look, as a firebrand christian, i am surprised you refrain from calling atheist satanist.

As a firebrand Christian, I refrain from making false allegations about anyone:

Exo. 20:16 ~ Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Exo. 23:1 ~ Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand
with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Exo. 23:7 ~ Keep thee far from a false matter

Job 36:4 ~ For truly my words shall not be false:
he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.

Prov. 11:1 ~ A false balance is abomination to the LORD:
but a just weight is his delight.

Prov. 25:18 ~ A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul,
and a sword, and a sharp arrow.


There is an abundant harvest of texts warning pilgrim.1 to desist from making false allegations against anyone - and this is why I cannot falsely accuse atheists of what God never called them. Atheists are not satanists.

helpee:
they are worse.

I hear.

helpee:
Do you know the bible say that EVEN THE DEMONS KNOW ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD AND TREMBLE.

Yes, thank you. But that does not translate into making atheists the same as satanists.

helpee:
If demons could fear God and Bill don't care, then i wonder who he is.

He never told you that he is a satanist.

helpee:
so if i may ask you, WHO WILL GO TO HELL?

Those whom the Word declared as such. It does not mean that everyone who would go there is a satanist, because they are not all accused of being satanists - please Revelation 21:8. That verse says that some people who are liars will go to Hell as well; so it will benefit us nothing to claim to be firebrand Christians and keep making false accusations against people.

I desire that people come to know the saving love of Jesus Christ. But that does not mean I should go about describing them as satanists. God says everyone (including pilgrim.1) shall give account of every word we have spoken; so if I begin to speak lies against atheists, where did God call them such things as satanists? Can I show from His word? No, I have no such verses. There are people who are described as not knowing God - in Acts 17:23, Paul did not go about accusing the Athenians to be satanists. They would have thanked him and shown him the coast with a persona-nongrata visa never to return to their shores! The wise apostle, however, showed them the love of the Saviour.

helpee:
i know you will say satan and his people
SO, WHERE WILL ATHEIST GO?

I beg your pardon? See my answer up - I don't see how atheists are called satanists regardless of where they will go.

helpee:
since they don't believe in God and they are not satanic, i guess they will be on the sideline abi?

Where did God refer to atheists as satanists, sir?

@javalove,

javalove:
@pilgim. 1

hmmm its not u i pity but ur soul. Only Allah guides. We can speak all the english from now till tommorow but even u doesnt know whats wrong with you, i can bet.

we have placed a barrier before them and another behind them. we have covered them up so that they cannot see - - - QCh 36

I feel like crying for u

Thank you for your commiserations; but I'm just praying for many like you to know the love of Jesus Christ. I'm not here to insult, ridicule or castigate your religion - I did that in the past against Christians and Jews, and many Muslims praised me for it. Today, there's a change wrought in me, and it is solid! Only Jesus could have done that kind of work in the heart of a former idiot like me who several times blasphemed His Name, His people, His Word, and His Church. I would take or give nothing in the world for this change in my life - because it were better for me to love people than to hate them for a religion's sake.

Let me extend that invitation to you personally: whatever barrier anyone has placed before and behind you can be broken today in Jesus Name! That is why the Name of Jesus is above the name of "QCh 36", for nothing can remain a barrier to those who believe in Jesus. He loves you. . . would you want to know His saving power as well?

God bless you.

@helpee,

helpee:
@PILGRIM
with all your acclaimed christianity i am surprised that you don't know that atheism is worse than satanism.God was speaking to the church in the book of Revelation and he said that if you are neither warm or cold, it is worse than to be completely cold. common there is nothing like atheism. if you are not for us then you are against us. at least, thats what jesus said. nobody can sit on the fence. i am disappointed that you are now running to atheist to come and defend Bill Gate

I'm sorry, but my Christianity does not teach me to go about accusing people of what they did not call upon themselves. I did that in the past and gained nothing but a vexation of spirit that was drowing my life. Since I came to know Christ, the difference is too obvious for me to deny.

I'm not running to atheists to defend Bill Gates. My point was that since some like Warren Buffet did not believe in God, they may be atheists (inferring from the website you recommended - [http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/07/07/warren-buffet-atheist-philanthropist.htm]), but that doesn't make them satanists. It is not in my place to accuse people falsely; nor does Christianity teach me to do so.

When God was speaking to the Church in Laodicea in Revelation 3:14, He never accused them of being atheists or even treated them worse than atheists. I don't see how one should be forcing such accusations where they don't belong. Meanwhile, na you know whether there is nothing like atheism - I will leave those who are atheists to come tell you themselves, as it is not in my place to speak for them.

Thank you again, and warm regards.