₦airaland Forum

truthislight: why not spill it out?

It could be clearer but that takes much of time, because more scriptures are linked.
I spend very few time with my pc, a full time mother. U know what i mean
But i enjoy following up, drop one or two contributions if be it.

Ubenedictus: I have read a little abt Gobbi some year back, thunder of justice has a film i just couldnt watch it becos mine wasnt clear. I try i see your points really?? I hope so!

y does your own quote speaks against u? Ur quote says "i become trasformed and assimilated by him (d holy spirit),...i will bring u to...". That clearly show that she will reveal that which she learnt of d holy spirit, it doesnt mary interpretes scripture in place of d holyspirit. Or does ur pastor interprete in place of d holyspirit wen he teaches in ur church? No he and she provides him/herself as a vessel for d holy spirit.
Please try and say it as u see it.

and what about that
In d catholic church private revelation is private and im not obligated to accept Gobbi or believe him.
But after taking a look at what u posted i could help but notice that it has just one use and that is to divert me thread.
The thread remains "who is d male child of revelation 12?" pls stay on topic.

I was not trying to avert the thread anyway, i responded due to ur comment.
I respect broo, let me maintain the topic.

Am happy you do not accept the church obligations.

DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum, The Peace Be Upon You Everyone.


Who Is The Child? The one whom strives for the anointing; the initiated Christ (Logos). I would suppose that the following books are not one hundred percent accurate, but they're notable the best of their kind, that's available today: ~ Page 154 of this book begins Revelation 12;

The Apocalypse Unsealed

Sermon on the Mount


Man - unregenerate


The Regenerate Man



Salaam/Peace. DevotedOne

See this muslim dey show himself

We are taking our time never mind, the OP is hiding from the truth, do not think we do not know who the child is.

Ubenedictus: what is the "new jerusalem"? I thought it was d kingdom of God under christ as paul attest. Pls did i get it wrong?

We are talking about the Holy City of God, the Tabernacle of God and Heavenly Jerusalem, is literally heaven on earth.

It is referred to in several scrituresIsaiah 52:1, Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 11:10, 12:22-24, reve 21)and more.

Hebrews 13:14
14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.


The new Jerusalem.

Ubenedictus: i know u have a problem with associating d woman with mary 'cos u tink that will over exault her, but actually mary was exaulted in d bible, no one is said to be called blessed 4 ages, and no one is called "kecharitomene" thru out scriptures. My dear im not interpreting out of place. But since u tink so, wu is d child, if d woman is not known den d child shuld give us a clue.

I have no problem dear, You can't match Mary in this vision. if you do then you have to match the other symbols, it must go in line.
The way you exalt Mary is uncalled for, there is no instruction for Christians to continue exalting Her.

God chose her womb to make the entry of Jesus Christ into the world. I believe Mary was a saintly woman, but Christ died for her and Joseph also.
Just like you and i. Paul spoke in Romans 3:23 "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God"
This clearly means everyone. So why the over exaltion of Mary?

The woman is know, and have been revealed to you but you refused to accept it, Na so you like argument?

Ubenedictus: atleast we can agree that long hair isnt against scriptures, tell me how he was described And how d catholics corrupted it.

Do you ever agree on the truth? even when you are faced with biblical facts plain in front of you, you still use logics to dodge from the truth.

Back to your questions, As a typical Nigerian, we are known for anwsering question with question, Thats what i am going to do here
How did the early Christians interpret Exodus 20:6? do u realize that there is no real statue,picture or engraving of Jesus anywhre in the world?

If there was, all would be the same, because they would all be taken from the real one abi?.
How do u recognize Late president Sani ABACHA? Evidently, its because all pictures of him are taken from the real image of him.

Artist that drew pictures of Jesus for whatever use are all vary. Ve you care to know Why? because no one really knows exactly how Jesus looked.
Good The Bible was careful not to have given a description of Jesus looks, this may be so that artists could not copy it and make an image or picture of Him.

But the scripture told us about His earthly appearance in Isaiah 53:1-3,Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

The early Christians could have easily made a perfect statue of Jesus’ image, but they did not, they must be holding on to the Ten Commandments forbiding such a thing. Everything changed when the Catholic sprang up. Idolatery became the center of christianity.

Christ had thousands who thronged him and who listened attentively to him when he teaches, Of course some of these listeners might be artistically talented people who could have drawn His face, Yet we have not one real picture of him anywhere.

Be informed that Jesus is not a Nazarite, but a Nazarene. Matthew 2:23 tells us this. So using it to back up ur reason why He should be painted with Long Hair is failed.

Matthew 2:23 "And he came and DWELT IN A CITY CALLED NAZARETH[/b]that it might be FULFILLED which was spoken by the prophets,[b] HE SHALL BE CALLED A NAZARENE." On the other hand, a Nazarite was a person who took upon himself the vow of a Nazarite. You know what i am pointing out.
So Jesus did not take this vow as plainly seen here.

Ubenedictus: An anti-catholic thead just ended and among d points raised by my protestant friends is rev 12, many were interested in telling me who is woman is but no one was interested the answering my question "who is the male child?" ofcourse i blive d key to know wu d woman is, is the male child. So i decided to bring the question to the public: in rev 12, who is the male child??

There is nothing like anti-Catholic broo, don't allow urself to be fed with these lies....

[b]The book, The Thunder of Justice, further claims that "the prophecy of Genesis 3 has been fulfilled with Revelation 12, where Mary is the great sign in Heaven: 'And a great sign appeared in Heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and on her head a crown of twelve stars.' Pope Paul VI, in his 1967 encyclical, Signum Magnum, identified the Lady of Fatima as the biblical representation of the Woman clothed with the sun." (The Thunder of Justice, p. 88). The book further states that "Mary, the Woman clothed with the sun, appears as a sign and explains the secrets of the Book of Revelation."

Also, they claim that "on April 12, 1947, at Tre Fontane (Three Fountains), in Rome, Italy, Our Blessed Mother announced, I am the Virgin of Revelation." (Ibid. p. 89). And if you listen to the words of Father Gobbi, one of the Marian Movement's priests whom Mary seems to have communicated through more than any other individual, This Father claims the Virgin Mary told him on April 24, 1980,as follow: "I am the Virgin of Revelation. In me, the masterpiece of the Father is realized in such a perfect manner, that He can shed on me the light of His predilection, The Word assumes His human nature in my virginal womb, and thus can come to you by means of my true function as Mother. The Holy Spirit draws me, like a magnet, into the depths of the life of love between the Father and the Son, and I become interiorly transformed and so assimilated to Him as to be His spouse...I will bring you [plural] to the full understanding of Sacred Scriptures." (Ibid., 90).[/b]

Where did the bible told us that Mary will interprets scripture in place of the Holy Spirit?

"But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God...the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God....Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth: comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1.Cor 2:10, 11b, 13).

The Thunder of Justice continues: "Above all, I [Mary] will read to you the pages of its last book [Revelation], which you are living. In it, everything is already predicted, even that which must still come to pass, The battle to which I am calling you is clearly described, and my great victory is foretold." (Ibid.).

nne3870: did you say group When did a male 'child' become group? Don't confuse yourself

He is not confused at all, you have gat to take your time and Read carefully.
Isaiah 66:7-11: 7“Before she goes into labor,she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
8Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
9Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?” says the Lord.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
10“Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her.
11For you will nurse and be satisfied
at her comforting breasts;
you will drink deeply
and delight in her overflowing abundance.”."

Here, Isaiah prophesied ages before Christ, of a woman bringing forth a 'man child.' "She," verse ten tells us, is Jerusalem,
Isaiah should be referring to the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 12:5 said the woman brought forth a 'man child;' Isaiah 66:7 said Jerusalem was delivered of a 'man child.'
Now Isaiah 66:8 expresses astonishment: "Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?"
Just like you believed @i.chuka was confused. Think about it, What was so amazing that Isaiah would be so surprised? Isaiah saw a whole nation, born in one day. That is something outstanding no? I believe this Revelation is deeper than we see it.

seriallink: What you guys have to understand is that, no one is an expert in breaking down prophecies, especially the ones in the book of Revelation. Just because one of the prophecies literally sounds like the birth of Christ, doesn't necessarily mean it is the birth of Christ!

The prophecies in Revelation are for the future and haven't been fulfilled yet, so, I don't see any reason why it would be referring to the birth of Christ that has already been fulfilled over 2000 years ago (Even before John was given the revelation).

Revelation 1:19-20 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So, lets not jump to conclusion that Christ is the MAN-CHILD being referred to in Revelation 12; we need to use scripture to interpret scripture. I have read different interpretations of that Chapter. I'll post some of the links tomorrow so you guys can go through and compare.

Interpreting prophecies is not an easy job. No body be BOSS for this one, I beg una! No rushing!

I strongly agree with you. The thing is that, the woman gave birth can mean Christ and can also mean the new covenant/converts of the church of Christ.

Post whatever bro, i am open to learn.

pastormustwacc: ^^^That is very good. If you read my posts well, i said it is more likely to be spiritual oppresion that she might be suffering from - whatever the source may be,
her pastor might be able to tell.

Yes you are right, she is picking up courage grasually. It is well!

omonuan: Nigerians and Ignorance.....If you falsely accuse your mother of witchcraft, you will eventually get accused by your own children because it is a vicious circle. "These are the words of my master: No weak heart shall prosper, whosever diggeth a pit shall fall in it!- Bob Marley in "Small Axe." It is becoming common nowadays for Nigerians in connivance with their pastor to accuse their mother especially of holding them down!

Prosperity comes from putting some effort, if you believe you are under the yoke of a curse, you'll never get out of it. It becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. The so-called Nigerian pastors can do anything to grow their congregation. I do not believe this woman confessed. If she did, she might have been given a hallucinogenic by the pastor. Or the pastor might have falsely told the kids that their mother confessed to him.

The question I ask Nigerians is: Where in the Bible did Christ teach and engage in witch hunting? No where else in the world do pastors engage in necromancy like Nigerian pastors. Many Nigerian pastors have quietly taken over the quackery and deception of voodoo men.

No be pastor make her confess oo, her two kids went on fasting and prayer, it was during the Mother started opening her mouth.
They didn't even suspected thier mum. I know how my friend love her mum so much; she got the shock out of her
A load too heavy to nurse alone, that is why she shared it with me.

And Didn' you know that Jesus cast out many demons? Evil doers should denounced and turn to God.

Niflheim: Pastor Pat Robertson used his private jet for smuggling diamonds out of zaire,pastor jerry falwell(according to larry flynt),used his own for drugs,and so oritsejafor will probably use his own for smuggling arms,(since he is a cultist)!!!

King David wrote:
[size=14pt]ECCLESIASTES CHAPTER 2: 4 I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards:
5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits:
6 I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees:
7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:
8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
9 So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me.
10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.
11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.[/size]

22 For what hath man of all his labour, and of the vexation of his heart, wherein he hath laboured under the sun?
23 For all his days are sorrows, and his travail grief; yea, his heart taketh not rest in the night. This is also vanity.



Jesus told us: Matthew 19:22 When the young(rich)man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Ubenedictus: hahaha, u need a simple greek lexicon to understand what is translated as "long hair". Samson had long hair he wasnt going about in shame and so do nazirites, d word translated as "long hair" is actually feminine is forbides keeping a womans hair not just "long hair". It actually forbides u from weaving ur hair and such.

I know that Long hair was never a case in the OT, but viewing this verse, you will believe that Paul was talking about Long hair and not Braided hair.
But as you say, So its now all about translation error abi? ok, so Paul was referring to fixing the hair in a feminine manner?, He was not condemning Long hair for men?

I agree with you that The OT never gave praise to long hair. In Judges 16:17, It specifically states Samson never had a razor touch his head. And Numbers 6:5 and 7 speak of the Nazarite vows’ requirement of not cutting the hair.

Also, in 2 Kings 1:8 the messenger’s description of a man with long hair and a leather girdle caused the king to instantly realize it was the prophet Elijah. The Hebrew words the servant used to describe Elijah were ba’al sa’ar which means "lord of hair."
In 2 Samuel 14:25-26 Absalom’s long hair was praised for its handsome appearance.

With all these scriptures showing biblical figures discribed with long hair, i believe Paul would not teach anything contrary to the rest of scripture.
Therefore, i will agree with your argument. But that doesn't validate the picture Catholic gave Jesus Christ. He was not discribed with this look You gave him.

seriallink: Are the prophecies in Revelation for the future or have been fulfilled already? How could the birth of Christ be applicable if the prophecies are for the future? Are you saying Christ is going to be born the second time?

Since the prophecy is for the future, it is clear that it has nothing to do with the birth of Christ. There is no doubt, there are different interpretations to these prophecies, but yours my friend is completely wrong because Christ cannot be borne twice!

Revelation 1:19-20 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Try other interpretations my friend. I know you are just doing it to justify Mary's title 'Queen of Heaven' but all those bullcraps are unscriptural.

Try again!

You are making alot of sense !! a real deep think is recommended

Ubenedictus: what plain truth? I have povided first scriptural proof the d child who is to "rule with a rod of iron" is Jesus christ your fellows said no! So i am asking everyone who is the child of rev 12? If u are able to give me a different ansa then we are going somewhere, if no y do ur fellows accuse me of lying?

You haven't find who the woman, why are you rushing to find who the child is?

Things should be taking step by step, If you can figure out the woman, then you can try to know what the other signs are because the Woman is the
most beautiful part of John's vision. Anyone who sees her and know her will admit that she is the beautiful sight in this Revelation 12.
So please try more to know this woman first. It pays to learn from others.

I am Not seeing Mary in this vision, Imagine when John describes the Woman as crowned with twelve stars, sun-clothed, and standing on the moon, i think John pictures her as one possessing every luminary of heaven. The sun, moon, and stars are the avenues of natural light, and in John's vision, you will agree that every avenue of light worked through this woman. How does the Bible discribed Mary? did the bible exalted her as much as you do today? and what makes you believe She is this woman with all these lights?

Ubenedictus: as regards d bolded it is just u preconcieved idea because u are afriad to associate d prophecy with mary. If i Match scripture with scripture i arrive at mary. Try it.

So you will try and match scriptures, make sure you tell us the entire symbols as well.

Each prophecy scholars has thier own way of matching these symbols and when you take a good look at most of them, you will know they are not accurate because they miss the point at the end. So How did mary fits in this vision? what does the sun, the moon the 12 stars etc etc symbolise?

I will be glad to be enlighten as no one is perfect.

Why are some people so bitter when been corrected with the scripture?
No one can boast to know the bible perfetly. We are all learning.
I think it's wrong to reject a plain truth and still claim to be following Christ.

Logicboy03: Keep lying. Why didnt you post the passage of Saul's conversion? hmmm?

I am not lying bro....

Can you take ur time to study these scriptures?

Acts 9:1-19; It was retold in Acts 22:6-21 and also Acts 26:12-18.

[quote author= yah]I only stepped out to change my masquerade mask, thought you would have noticed by now.

Tell your friend to ask her mother if any covenant was made (specifically about blood covenant), and possibly if her mother can "disenchant her" in case she has been enchanted in a way - that yoke must be broken so that she can achieve her breakthrough.[/quote]She was not initiated, confirmed by her pastor. She agreed to undergo deliverance prayer, but the Pastor confirm she was not possesed in any way.

The mother said she did not do any blood convenant with her children. She is saying that She has never seen my friend in the other world either.
The woman needs special treatment i think. It's true that she must achieve her break through, because She is now for Christ.

[quote author= yah]After redemption, the demons within are chased out, but if there is a blood covenant, they will use it as a channel to launch spiritual assaults and oppression. So those bonds must be revoked to make your friend achieve and fulfil his destiny in life (to break-through).

Yes you were correct from the start, the bolded here is what i have been trying to explain to you earlier.[/quote]As stated by @pastormustwacc, He said it may be possible that she may not be aware she is possesed.
This may be truth, when i told Her, she said, "i am not possesed, I do not see myself in any strange location or ever have i done any evil thing in my entire life".
I couldn't proceed further, she knows herself better. I feel very sad for Her situation. And also that of Her entire family.

Do you think she should aked Her mum if she made Blood convenant?

Logicboy03: ...Shows that you have very little faith in your god. Your god cant convert atheists like how he did to Saul (to Paul)?

God did not force Paul to repentance, when He call/choose Paul, He did not say, You must be my Apostle. Paul decided which way to follow.

He felt melted in His heart, He responded to God in repentance, is indwelt with the Spirit, and lives a life of faith.

So many has been "called" but when they refused to turn from thier ways, they will be under condemnation.

The scriptures shows that people have the ability to choose to go to Heaven or Hell (To choose to accept or reject)

1 Chron. 28:9 If you forsakeHim, He will forsake you

Ezekiel 18:23 The wicked should return from his ways and live

Ezekiel 3:19 If the wicked does not turn from his wicked ways he will die in his sins


John 3:18 He that believeth not is condemned already

They are many verses like this, But i think this ones are ok for you.

Logicboy03: See madness. So, you are now god? You know when a soul is doomed?

Hail Yah! The executioner of yaweh!

No be madness, na wise talk, Some people are destined for condemnation. But you seem to be enjoying God word, So maybe you will change ur mind one day

[quote author= yah]@plappville, arguing gods word with a doomed soul is a waste of precious time. Spend your time on souls that can be redeemed.[/quote]I have observed that @Logicboy03 is not a true Atheist, He love following Christian thread.
Maybe because He enjoys the word of God but still living in pretence.
But at the end of it all, He end up hurting His eyes.

italo: Matt 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Truelly, you seem not to understand what the scriptures you are qouting means.

When the blind leads the blind they both end up in the well/hole.

[quote author= yah]A christian with the holy spirit can have an unholy convenant (usually blood) as an initiation into withcraft.

Let me clarify that, if someone has a blood convenant with the kingdom of darkness, and later becomes born again (receives the holy spirit). Meanwhile, that person is not possesed (no one can have light and darkness at the same time), greater is he that is in me than is he that is in the world.

That blood convenant will need to be revoked because they will be a channel of affliction for that person. This appears to be the case with your friend. This is a form of demonic oppression and not possesion.[/quote]Bold 1: That is where i think He is missing.
Bold 2: That was my point as well.

Even if she was possesed before without knowing, at the day of her convertion, She will be free from whatever evil spirit she had in the passed.

Thanks broo for contributing.

chiteny: I saw this in church today and thought I should ask.

It should be His parent that gave the child to drop that envelop.

A child does not work, He/she still rely on parental care, How then would tithing be accepted from them?

I give my Kids 50 cents each for offering. I believe Thats largely enough to educate them that giving is required in the house of God.

Outside that, they have no connection to hold money until they are old enough

seriallink: After going through posts & threads made by some christian- to-atheists converts, I came to these conclusions:

1. Most of them were dedicated churchgoers and do not understand christianity when they were christians!

2. Most of them were church doctrine followers and not good bible students. They probably left Christianity for Atheism because they were tired of obeying silly church laws & doctrines!

3. Most of them were victims of false teachings & doctrines. That's why they see biblical teachings as illogical & silly!

4. Most of them prayed without faith when they were christians and expected answers. How can you pray without faith and expect answers or miracles to happen?

5. Some were victims of tithe fraud!

An atheist is not supposed to be worried about religious people's heaven or hell, since he/she doesn't have faith or believe in the existence of a God. They aren't supposed to bash religious people or engage them in debates on topics relating to God/heaven &/or hell because they do not believe in anything that has to do with the existence of God. But from what I have observed so far, most christian-to-atheist converts had problems with christianity because of at least one of the points I listed above!

Advice to my christian brethren & sisters: If you are a churchgoer, study your bible with honesty, praying & asking for the holy spirit to lead & give you wisdom to understand it very well. Do not rely on teachings from your Pastors (MOGs) or some silly church doctrines & interpretations of scriptures! Decipher scripture with scripture!

If you are not a churchgoer or do not have a church but believe in Christ, study your bible at home & pray that the holy spirit leads you & give you understanding; share with brethren online too.

Scripture says:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

Use scripture to explain & interpret scripture. Brethren & sisters, if you do not do these; but rely only on your so-called pastors & church doctrines, you'll end up becoming a stiff-necked atheist!

These are my observations. What are your own views?

Please, no bashing o...Na my views on wetin dey go on be that.

Thank you.

True talk! A true atheist will have no dealing with religous matters/discussion. Because it make no sense to them.
NL atheists appears to be truelly formal church goers as you say. That is why You see them all around Christian thread.

I don't have interest in Atheist discussion, so i don't visit thier thread.

Siraillink: Advice to my christian brethren & sisters: If you are a churchgoer, study your bible with honesty, praying & asking for the holy spirit to lead & give you wisdom to understand it very well. Do not rely on teachings from your Pastors (MOGs) or some silly church doctrines & interpretations of scriptures! Decipher scripture with scripture!

That was a good advise to the churchgoers who truelly seek God broda.!

pastormustwacc: I have tried my best to explain this to you, but you still dont get it.

Let me try to put it in plainer english:
1. A christian without the holy spirit can be possesed without a spirit of witchcraft, and they may or may not know.
2. A christian with the holy spirit can have an unholy convenant (usually blood) as an initiation into withcraft. But if that blood covenant is not revoked, that christian will be afflicted greatly (will not miss heaven though, but life will be hell [lots of spiritual attacks and afflictions] for the person without breaking that convenant).

Your friend most likely falls into the second category. I dont know your belief, but even as a spirit-filled christian, there are some spiritual boundaries you just cannot cross and get away from without suffering any collateral damage. Withcraft is one of them, eating foods dedicated to powerful otherwordly spiritual entities is another, making a blood convenant (with or without your knowlege) and later becoming born again will not erase the blood convenant.

I really dont like talking about stuffs like this in public. So i will now leave the thread. But i do believe i have said the needful.

*Unsubscribes and leaves*

Don,t leave, you have to keep on, do you think you are doing a wrong thing? In Christ service there is no hiden talk. You are not just helping a family out, but also someone might find this helpful in the future.

2. A christian with the holy spirit can have an unholy convenant (usually blood) as an initiation into withcraft. But if that blood covenant is not revoked, that christian will be afflicted greatly

Sorry if i am not getting this rightly, Do you mean one can have the Holy spirit and at thesame time have unholy covenant? Can good and evil dwell in same body?

I thought the Bible says, if any man be in Christ He is a new creation, meaning, He now has Gods spirit when been baptised by the Holy ghost.
Anyone who has not the spirit of God is none of His. So if anyone should call Him or Herself a Christian, The Holy spirit must dwell in He/She. So how come You say a "Christian" with Gods spirit can have an unholy spirit?

pastormustwacc: I have tried my best to explain this to you, but you still dont get it.

Let me try to put it in plainer english:
1. A christian without the holy spirit can be possesed without a spirit of witchcraft, and they may or may not know.
2. A christian with the holy spirit can have an unholy convenant (usually blood) as an initiation into withcraft. But if that blood covenant is not revoked, that christian will be afflicted greatly (will not miss heaven though, but life will be hell [lots of spiritual attacks and afflictions] for the person without breaking that convenant).

Your friend most likely falls into the second category. I dont know your belief, but even as a spirit-filled christian, there are some spiritual boundaries you just cannot cross and get away from without suffering any collateral damage. Withcraft is one of them, eating foods dedicated to powerful otherwordly spiritual entities is another, making a blood convenant (with or without your knowlege) and later becoming born again will not erase the blood convenant.

I really dont like talking about stuffs like this in public. So i will now leave the thread. But i do believe i have said the needful.

*Unsubscribes and leaves*

I am so surprised at all these!

Boomark: Of course a lie is a lie. Telling us the image of the person on your wooden cross is Jesus is a VERY BIG LIE.

The Jesus on thier cross and photo has long hair, and the bible says it is a shame for a man to have long hair.

See contradition fot Catholics..

1 Corinthians 11:14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,

If Apostle Paul saw Jesus with Long hair, He wouldn't use this words.

ijawkid: Now that is how its done my dear...

Using scriptures to explain scriptures......

Shake my hands O jare....you too much....

Thats a fact, agreed!

truthislight: my other question below will not be necessary if you answer the question below correctly.

1. Is Israe you mention the literal nation of Israel on earth?

2. Or, is it not the literal Israel?

You may have to explain the following if it is the literal nation of Israel.

1. and the baby?
2. the wilderness?
3. and who was chasing her?
4. The woman/baby taken away for a period of time.

From your summation, if the 12 stars is already = twelve tribes of Israel, it means Israe is already represented, why is the woman said to be Israel again?

Though the woman is not mary, it is necessary that we know if it is earthly or heavenly things we are talking About.

Peace though.

My bros, i no be prophet ooo, Like bros Ijewkid sated, we must use scripture to match scripture to arrive at not perfect but almost perfect conclusion.
Scripture speaks for scriptures. So let me try to break down my previews comments that brought up all these questions .

If you check in few OT chapters you will see tht "Israel or Jeruselem or Zion mostly represent as a "woman"
See Isaiah 54:1-6, jere 3:20, Eze 16:8-14 also Hosea 2:19-20

In Joseph's vision it was eleven stars, because Joseph was not among them he was the dreamer.
But in the sign with the Revelation woman with twelve stars, Joseph is now included in the other tribes of Israel.

So the woman is Israel while the twelve stars represent the twelve tribes. God uses this symbols to communicate something to us.

We must not forget that John clearly says this is a sign/wonder, so we shouldn't expect this to be literally on earth.
That is why i agreed with @Ijewkid when He said:

ijewkid: Jerusalem above which is definitly not a literal woman

The woman cannot also be the church as i used to believe it was, because in regard to the birth of the church.
Christ is the one that gave birth to the church not the other way around. As long as the woman does not point at Mary, she must be Israel.

There are only two who could gave birth to Jesus, Mary or Israel. When you take a deep look at the rest of Reve.. 12,
you will find out that This woman is truelly Israel. Revelation 12 has a great similarity with Joseph's dream.

I know you know quit sure who the Dragon represents. And also the male child, The Angel Michael,
The woman's offspring, and the beast out of the earth, the Beast out of the sea etc..

If u ve something to improve do it please, i welcome a sincere correction comment in this aspect of my life.