₦airaland Forum

pleep: Non, le google tranlation est là ^ ......tres terrible haha. Perhaps that is because i didn't use accent marks though.

Je ne comprende pas que j'ai ecrit ici.

Do yall know what ever happend to fulaman?.. Nous oublions ce sujuet.

We should have used these powers on the white man lol

Malgre tout... cette fille est un enfant tres mignon

unfortunatly thats tomorows generaton skanka-sausaus rex. smh

All of this was written by me, btw... no copy and pasting by pleep

I'll get to the aftermath of the battle TM, gotta attend to my social life!

part 3: The Battle

As the Songhai army advances towards the battle field, they requisition a herd of around 1000 cattle from local farmers, probably a common military practice used to feed the army. In this instance they drive this giant herd infront of the army as they draw nearer to Tondibi.

The match up is as follows: I estimate around 10,000 infantry for Songhai, most of these were probably archers. And they were accompanied by over 13 thousand heavy cavalry armed with lances. Some sources put the Songhai Force at up the 40 thousand, and one even said a staggering 100K, but i find that highly unlikely.

The Moors have about 2000 troops, most armed with the Arquebus musket, 8 English Cannon, and perhaps a little less than 1k Cavalry.

At this point Judar Pasha starts sending messengers to Ishak of Songhai, begging him to surrender without a fight... This is said to have given Songhai a sense of over-confidence as they entered the battle. Ishak flatly refuses to surrender to this vastly smaller Moorish army and Soon the two armies were standing face to face.

Contrary to some of the sources i read, i do not believe the Songhai sent the cattle in to cover an infantry charge. Apperantly it was a common west African military tactic to send stampeding cattle alone to break up and demoralize enemy formations in the same way medieval Europeans used knights to charge infantry. The Songhai are known to have used this strategy in several other encounters with other African kingdoms.

At the point when they sent the cattle, the African army has no idea that gun-power would be involved in this battle. Because of this, they probably stayed within ranks expecting to see the moors flee before the mass of cattle almost as numerous as their 2000 man army.

But this is when the battle goes to hell.

The Morrocans suddendly start firing with all their cannons into the mass of cattle, causing an intolerable amount of stress and fear for any animal... 1000 cows suddenly turn around in a real stampede into the Songhai ranks. some sources say that several of the herd continued to charge at the moors, but in such thin numbers that the the enemy was able to part and let them pass harmlessly though.

These songhai troops, men who have lived most of their lives on a farm never hearing anything much louder than a human yell, are now hearing booms so loud that they can rupture the membrane of a human ear.

(some sources say the majority of the army routed instantly)

In addition to this cannon balls are actually bouncing all though their lines cutting of limbs and tearing apart bodies. But the men still have not routed, they still massively outnumber the morrocan army and if they make an attempt to fight they will win.

The second morale blow occurs when the Songhai cavalry attempt to charge. I do not believe the two forces ever colided, as they is no way 15k horsemen could have been beaten by 500 morrocan horse gunners or lancers "Arquebusier a Cheval" as stated in the french wiki article.

The most probable thing is that the sound of the cannons caused the horses to panic and start throwing their riders, in much the same way you would see a buck do at an American rodeo. With the advent of gunpowder weapons it became nessesary to train horse to tolerate the extreme sounds of modern combat... these horses were not trained in this way, and i think this caused them to frenzy, throwing and dragging their riders in a way that completely negated their combat effectiveness

And thus a full 50% of the Songhai fighting force was removed from the battle.

All that is left now was the infantry force of about 10,000 men, which was growing more and more demoralized each second. They still outnumbered the enemy almost 5 to one and if they charged they could have easily carried the day.

But they made one vital mistake.

Instead of charging headlong into the gun-fire, a tactic proven effective by the Scotts in the Jacobite rebellion, the 10k remaining Songhai troops elected to stay in the 150 meter arquebus kill zone firing the arrows at the enemy.

Most sources don't mention this, but it seems like the Songhai fielded a majority archer army.

As cannon after cannon smashed into the massed force, and the moors unloaded their (largely ineffectice) muskets, the Songhai army never charged but simply remained in the kill zone firing arrows... Under this onslaught, which brought much more morale damage than actual loss of life. (The arquebus is one of the least effective military guns ever used large scale, but creates terrifying sounds and sparks that horrify the enemy. The African warriors at tondibi would have thought this to be some form of magic) The many vassel tribes, who have very little loyalty to the king, begin to flee the battle in panic. Soon the well trained archer core at the reserve of the army moves to the front hoping to inspire the army to keep fighting. Only the kings Mandinka tribes-men remain now

.... kneeling down and tieing their ankles to their belts, signifying that they would never retreat.

The French source describes these men as "la garde songhai fidèle" and i believe they were probably the emperors personal bodyguard.

... Soon they are the only Songhai men left on the battle field, but despite all the horrors they never rout. On their knees firing arrow after arrow under cannon and musket fire until the moors are forced to charge in and kill them by hand


to be continued....

By this time Judar pasha's men have ran out of supplies, and the attrition rate was staggering. Out of the 4000 men who had originally made the journey it is estimated that 2000k died en route.

The remaining men who make it to Songhai are able to live of the land and obtain water from the wells that Ishaks men had failed to close. If his war council had did as he commanded it is possible that the entire Moorish force would have died in the desert.

As the remaining 2k men advance into present day mali they begin to run into small pockets of resistance, and have a number of minor skirmishes with Songhai archers... Judar pasha, the commander of the moors, orders his troops not to use their guns on these men and keep their devistating secret until the final showdown.

By the time they reach north of Goa, a small village near Tondibi, the Songhai King has assembled a motley army made mostly of tribes that are not of the dominent *mandinka* (will edit) ethnicity. These are men from his vassal kingdoms and have very little loyalty to Songhai. However, the army has a core of well trained songhai troops, but these men are kept in reserve, at the back of the main army, hopefully to keep the untrained mass in line.

Out of the entire Songhai force, it seems like no has any idea of what is in store for them. The do not know that the moors will be using gun-powder weapons. In some of the sources i read, it is mentioned that guns were known and used in the neighboring Borneu kingdoms, but the Songhai have never before encountered them.

... to be continued.

As kidstranglehold mentioned earlier Morroco and Songhai had been engaging is small scale conflict for several years before the invasion. This was over the Saharan salt mines that were a huge source of money for both nations. My opinion differs from his in that i believe the Morrocans started the animostity by seizing the mines at Taghaza from the Songhai Empire.

These mines, in present day Mali, were clearly initially Songhai property because once they were taken by the moors Asikia Ishak, king of Songhai, was able to cripple their effectiveness by refusing to trade with them or allow Songhai workers to operate them. Ishak then asks to moors to return the mines, and when he is refused sends an army of 2000 heavy cavalry to raid a small town in present day Morroco with express orders not to kill anyone.

At this point king mansur begins to devise plans to destroy the Songhai Empire.


Part two

The king of Morroco begins to plan his invasion of Songhai, reminding his nay-sayers that this would not be the first time a Moorish empire covered both sides of the Sahara. In his reasoning if the Almoravids could accomplish such a feat he could too.

During this time Mansur was also in communication with several European heads of state, and is known to have sent a personal letter to Queen Elizabeth mentioning this venture. The whites, happy to see the growing power of Morroco diverted to what they suspected would be a long and futile war, gave him support, encouraging their mercenaries to join the army. So many Spanish joined the expedition that the official language of amry administration was changed to Spanish

The party was led by a Spanish Enuch named Judar Pasha, (judar means fuk ) and they set off in 1590 with around 4000 men, 8 cannons and a small amount of cavalry.

Upon hearing of the advancing comming army Ishak, the King of Songhai ordered all the wells in the north of the empre to be filled with sand. His advisors who seem to have not taken the threat posed by such a small force seriously, neglected to carry out his orders... and Judar pashas force was able to continue south until eventually they hit the Niger river

.... to be continued shortly.

[quote author=ShyM-X]White Europeans in Morocco in the 16th century when Europe was just getting back from the dark ages? Do you know the meaning of Morocco? Anyway, they were Moors... and the Spanish Muslim you referred to, was a also a Moor from Iberia... The only European people worth mentioning at that point in history were the Portuguese, and they were annihilated by the Moroccan forces...

Also, their superior firepower and cannons aided their victory... There was nothing great about them, they were just vandals who destroyed and burned one of the most scholastic achievements of black Africa deep inside the hinterlands of Africa... Timbuktu represented/represents one of our greatest achievements and imagine how great we would have been if the libraries, and books in Timbuktu weren't looted and destroyed... Imagine if Baba Ahmed(and all the legendary Timbuktu academic) had been allowed to continue his scholastic teachings...

That's more reason why this barbaric and scandalous battle isn't something to be celebrated, to be honest...[/quote]The majority of men fighting in this battle were actually Europeans who were captured and enslaved by the Moors after the "battle of 3 kings" where they annihilated the Portugese army.

The army also consisted of many English men, and those 8 English cannon Pasha brought were actually obtained with the support of Queen Elizabeth herself. The whites saw West Africa as a sort of El dorada and this invasion was made in huge part by eager European recruits.

Shymexx i respect you, you are a really good poster, but you insecurity about these issues is rediculus. I am not here to 'celebrate' what those towel-head bastards did to us, Songhai was litteraly the last hope for West Africa, and these people ruined it. They distroyed everything good in that region and created nothing to replace it....and the whole endeavor ended up being a waste of money for both the Morrocans and the Songhai.

The purpose of this thread was to figure out how exactly the Morrocans were able to win this battle, because the current narrative simply does not make sense, there is no precedent for an army to act in such a cowardly manner and i want to get the whole story.

I was hoping to get that from this thread, but there is no need now... based of extensive reserch i have been doing for the last couple of days i think i have an extreamly plausible theory for what went on that day.

And extended version of the following will probably be added on to the current wikipedia article with sources and citations:

its like every female on nairaland is running on the same loop...

yo mama

... yo daughter

yo sister

yo aunty

....bla bla lba

but it was "different" a second ago

lol shm...

please.. dont embarrass yourself here. Thats a pretty nasty thing for a mother to be saying

lols... whats more important pleasure... or children?

smh at the way yall reason.

will u marry a man without a joystick and balls?

wat?

lol... only if she is a virgin.

A guy becomes a player when he decides that emotional investment is not worth it anymore... that is either his natural state, or something he decided from the available information

...and they are many men who can get to that point from heartbreak.

If u've got it in you its a nice life... i know dudes who can bang a new chick every other week.

I definitly agree that the only purpose of your survey, and your post, was to support a view you already had.

And for the record it not true.

While yes, nice guys, like the guy in the video, will stay nice no matter what happens to them. The story is completely different with guys like me.

I know if my current Gf, "broke my heart" or w/e especially if its by cheating, i would become a cold hard player for the rest of my college career. If its fun enough ill do it for the rest of my life... until im old and rich enough to fly in an 18 year old virgin from Kaduna

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]but it was level with ground. even if it might have been an illuion, can you explain this fact[/quote]i was thinking maybe there was some sort of hole in the ground.

.

But anyway, Im looking at some of the footage from the recent malien conflict.. rebels are destroying parts of the ancient mosques.

And these buildings actually don't look like they are entirely made of mud to me..... These structures are actually much more impressive than i thought.

So this can be a thread to celebrate Anicent malis accomplishments, as well as the bad sides also, i'm open to both.

....any further information would be appreciated.

When we want to compare the archetecture of a specific culture... u gotta look at the stuff the government built, not the common people.

ezeagu: And can you explain the structural details of Malian and London/Japan buildings so we know how they cannot compete? Aren't the beams used to hold up upper floors in Mali the same used in London? Aren't the window fittings and roof seals in Mali comparable to Japan? What makes Japan and London so special? Because they took on the architecture of the Romans and Chinese?

Dude. you people always miss the point

The point is everyone built stuff out of wood up until the 1940's... that is not anything particular. Even a good percentage of houses today are made entirely of wood.

The mosque at timbuktu is magnificent structure, but i think that with the resources available to Mali at that time they could have done much better.

When i was watching this video i experienced a strange tickling sensation on my balls.

was it black magic?

in that case 96% of Nigerian men are players.

back in the day there where dozens of good african history posters now most of them are gone

.... i am very dissapointed with the contribution to this thread so far.

Where is physicsQED when u need him?

And what ever happende to Odumichi... you actually remind me of him kidstraglehold.....

^ lol

@ topic lol

190: its as old as the last strand of hair on your pubic

nut case

LOL

Actually i take that back. When these men get money... they get eaten alive by the gold-diggers

Ladies you have to realize that the experiene of romance is completely different for men and for women.

You stated that women experience more heartbreaks then men, first of all that is not true, and secondly there are plenty of female players out there, even more than the males. What we call a "gold-digger" is essentially female player and from what i have heard such women are everywhere in Nigeria.

As for so called nice guys, ladies dont realize how much bitterness they are causing to build up in these men. Keep in mind that because society expect men to approach women, every male has infinetly more negative experiences with the opposite gender than the other way around. Most of them are small like getting rejected at the club etc.. but they build up and cause these men to generalize. Most "nice guys' i know have been getting absolutely shitted on since high school.

But thankfully for the ladies, most of these men will never change their behavior. Nice guy is in thier blood, and they have a low self esteem that gets worse with every rejection.... lol

But if such a man gets money..... phwam all bets are off and the biggest meanest jerk is unleased onto womankind.

[quote author=ShyM-X]^^^Don't mind the clown - they were Moors and not Arabs... and they had superior fire power compared to the Songhai forces...[/quote]The majority of the army was actually made of white Europeans and was led by a Spanish muslim.