₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Even if you are a bot, that bot certainly must exist. Or are you asking me to consider your responses come out of thin air with no one or nothing behind it?

Regardless, since you are not certain you or I exist, I don't see why you who doesn't exist would be soliciting the opinion of I whom you assume does not exist and then be arguing that some designer of the universe that you have even less evidence exists, exists.

This whole thing could be entirely in your head ONLY.
We don't know the true nature of thinking and consciousness. They may not necessarily need you to exist!

I already told you it is very likely things are as we experience them. I am not even going as far as Einstein who was SURE all was predetermined and there was someone in the distance pulling the strings, yet he went about his business as if this were NOT the case

HellVictorinho6:
i cant define 4 u


biology cant either

neither must math,physics or chemistry

u av 2 define 4 urself

"U" is ONLY memory, what you remember. If you remember nothing there is no self, there is no you

HellVictorinho6:
u dont use this as a pronoun when u arent referring to any specific case
neither do u use it

Meaning what?
Point is, this can be any number of a million things and u don't have the slightest idea which it is. Just as the yeast fornicating and defecating in a vat will never know he was fermenting beer!

Geovanni412:
What is mass consciousness?

Most people have no independent thought of their own due to social media

Could you explain how mass consciousness is connected to the NPC situation in current times

What is NPC? What they mean is that the only thing that truly exists is consciousness and it doesn't belong to any one person. Once an organism is born it becomes part of that consciousness. The only thing that makes him think he is a separate "self" is memory

LordReed:
For trying to come off sounding as if you don't think there is some guiding intelligence controlling the universe. You'd be fooling no one but yourself.

Proving you don't know usage of "gaslight". Someone whose been arguing with creationists just told you EXACTLY what he thinks - that aspects of the universe point to some sort of design. HOW DOES GASLIGHT COME INTO IT??!!

[quote author=LordReed post=128959972][/quote]So how was I trying hard to gaslight myself when I simply told u what I think

LordReed:
Oh please. Stop trying so hard to gaslight yourself. It is so obvious what you believe.

What do you understand this word you like using actually mean: gaslight?

budaatum:
Do not include me in your mass mentions please since you are not sure you exist.

You don't understand. There is high probability I actually exist (at least at some level), just no CERTITUDE!!!

HellVictorinho6:
same people u refer to as greatest but knowing nothing claimed to know many more things than u think

anyways, not knowing what x means doesnt mean not knowing itz part of an equation and that means we use it to represent a number.

the memory cant exist if u never existed.


the memory cant be separated from u.

Ok, what if this is a long-running computer game of a far advanced alien civilization, and they each have their chips (people) that they play with and the game has set rules, etc.
See? That's just one of a trillion things it could be!

budaatum:
Explain to me whom you, who claims he doesn't actually exist, tags, when you believe those you tag don't actually exist.

Please cite the right wording: I have no way of BEING SURE if and what they really are. The matrix and dreams are also full of people discussing with you - yet none of them exist!

HellVictorinho6:
same people u refer to as greatest but knowing nothing claimed to know many more things than u think

anyways, not knowing what x means doesnt mean not knowing itz part of an equation and that means we use it to represent a number.

the memory cant exist if u never existed.


the memory cant be separated from u.

Sooo, define "u"

Geovanni412:
My issue is with the bolded as regards memory

What can we say about boxers, like Prichard Colon that suffer brain damage and can't remember a thing?

Are they no longer in existence even though they are alive?

Kindly clarify

Thanks 4 your response.
He no longer exists as an individual. There is no longer a "self". He is simply part of the mass consciousness. That's why people like Sam Harris say that individuality is an illusion of memory - in reality there's only one mass consciousness.

LordReed:
But some how declaring you know there is an intelligent designer somewhere is better. LoLz. SMH.

I never said tha and I'd never say that. I only said that certain things (like nature's correlation with math and theoretical Physics) are pointers to there being some sort of design to the universe

budaatum:
I don't agree with Sam Harris whom I don't share a religion with, and I definitely don't agree with Descartes who thinks therefore exists.

LordReed:
At least the "nothing" I know is way more that the shit you claim to know.

HellVictorinho6:
But we dont even have to be sure of the nature in order to be sure that something exists

JessicaRabbit:
We don't exist in a thought experiment. We live in a world brimming with social constructs, cultural influences, and yes, even a dash of good old-fashioned confirmation bias. To suggest a level playing field for belief formation is simply ahistorical. Remember the Crusades? The Inquisition? Religious persecution?

Pardon my tagging everybody but these are crucial points to get accross because most people think they are jokes (I'll later reply other mentions BTW):
1) Why atheism that says God does not exist is a religion (and a stupid one at that IMHO), and 2) Why our greatest thinkers are right when they say we don't know anything.

Here's the TRUTH:
You find yourself in this reality. You don't AT ALL know what it is. You don't know if it's an illusion (like Einstein thinks), a matrix, a simulation, a hallucination, a dream, a heaven, a hell, if you have free will in it or you just have illusion of free will, if the reality is being manipulated, if you're being manipulated, where your thoughts come from, whether you are the one actually thinking them, what thinking actually is, where your dreams come from, whether there is a "you" at all (atheist Sam Harris says there is not), wether things are predetermined (as Einstein thought), etc., etc.. All you know is that there seem to be things going on and you seem to be in them {or they seem to be in you - to the extent there is a "you"}
Bottom line: YOU DON'T HAVE THE FOGGIEST IDEA WHAT THIS IS or what is truly going on!
You see water, air, etc. You don't know what they are or why they're in those particular forms.
To compound all that, you find out you are practically blind (you see 0.003% of light), that you don't know what 95% of stuff around you is, that you only perceive 4 dimensions out of hundreds, and that on a cosmic scale (if the universe were shrunk to size of earth) your earth won't be visible even with the strongest microscope!

Please answer truthfully, is someone with these attributes qualified to have an opinion as to whether God exists??!!

Being an atheist is like being sure of the answer to the question: X+5=?, without knowing AT ALL what X is, wether X is even a number at all or a goat! It is also why our greatest thinkers are right when they say we don't know anything - if you don't know what X is, you don't know anything!

**BTW Sam Harris was right but there is no great insight about what he said. It is simple common sense:
If you don't believe there is a supernatural (as you said you don't budaatum) then you must agree that the "self", the individual person, doesn’t exist - it is an illusion of accumulated memory. If your memory is wiped, "you" seizes to exit TOTALLY. If another person's memory is put in that body, that person becomes "you". Same applies to a dog or anything else. You are your accumulated memory, NOTHING ELSE! Without memory the individual, the "self", does not exist!

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LordReed:
LoLz! Keep dreaming of beating me, it is good to have aspirations.

All those QED's are there for all to see
The last one was when you said that you never said "natural selection doesn't select anything". I produced two places where you said exactly that, and you started making dumb eccuses!😆

HellVictorinho6:
Depends on what u mean by nature of xyz

Go with whatever you think it means, let's see where you going

JessicaRabbit:
The whole "all things being equal" argument is fantastical at best. People don't choose their beliefs in a vacuum. Upbringing, cultural influences, personal experiences etc. all play a role. But even in a hypothetical world, "benefits" are subjective! Your version of a "beneficial" life might involve church socials and shared beliefs, while mine might involve the freedom to explore ideas without theological constraints. There's no one-size-fits-all answer. At the very least, I'm pleased that you've finally come out to declare the subjectivity of life. That has been my point all along! That's why claiming everyone experiences the divine the same way, or that a specific religion is universally "beneficial", is a bit of a stretch. My reality involves finding meaning through personal growth, scientific discovery, and human connection - all perfectly fulfilling pursuits that don't require a deity.

You know what? Why don't you go ahead and tell me, what aspects of religion you find most beneficial? Maybe I can share my perspective on how I find similar fulfillment without resorting to faith. Mutual understanding is far more productive than this game of logical whack-a-mole we seem to be playing.

Good to have you back. Your erudite submissions add to the level of the discussion.
Well, without "all things being equal" we can't have a discussion because, as I pointed out, it's like we all live in different realities though we physically occupy the same world. There are people who speak with God everyday and people who see shape-shifting demons everyday. Then there are people who are 100% sure a supernatural doesn't exist. The totally weird thing is that BOTH may be right!

Respectfully, you're trying to play a fast one. I am the one who has always said that life is totally subjective - that what exists for one person may not exist for another.
As for what aspects of religion are beneficial, they are rather obvious. Just believing God is on your side and you can't fail is better than going it "alone". But the real point is that you can at same time have ALL there is in atheism without the stigma and "lonliness" and isolation from the social mainstream (speaking of the "human connection" you talked about).
You're right, mutual understanding is far more productive. Though "logical whack-a-mole" can be a lot of fun too. I'll admit I enjoy beating up LordReed . I'm truly amazed I've won EVERY SINGLE discussion I've had with him. They always end with me saying "QED"!

LordReed:
Nope it's from their BLOG. And is a reprint from an article in a a NON SCIENTIFIC publication. You should ask yourself why there is no peer reviewed paper after all these years.

You have started your ridiculousness again. Why are you fixated on the word "blog"? What has that to do with anything?? Below is the end of the article and who wrote it!

HellVictorinho6:
There are whatevers/whoevers indefinitely

What I can say for sure is that something exists since there seems to be something like what we call "thinking" going on. Now the nature of that something that exists I'm not sure about

budaatum:
So, you that doesn't "actually exist" will not feel pain but your brain that does exist will feel pain?

Can you explain how your brain exists without you please, such that it will feel the pain that you don't feel?

And note that I do wonder at your fudge thinking that seems to suggest that you that doesn't actually exist can dream and feel pain.

Oh we assumed a lot for the sake of conversation. We not only assumed I exist, we assumed the physical universe exists and we assumed I actually have a hand and that there is a hammer. Lots of HUGE assumptions, just like Descartes who made the huge leap from existence of thinking to he himself existing - "Cogito..."
In reality even your fellow atheist, Sam Harris, says the individual does not exist (see below). Since u r of same religion, do you agree with him?

LordReed:
Dumdum does it not occur to you that if this was a simulation that the programmers could simulate any speed they want? Why would the simulation be limited by the processor for crying out loud. Modern processors can simulate faster than light speeds for Andromeda's sake.

Also Dumdum what makes you think the so called simulation programmers are not capable of producing increasingly more powerful processors? Failure to think I swear.

See below. This is from physics department of a university, NOT the usual nonsense you write from top of your head and later try to save face about

budaatum:
My brain is never disconnected, and I am asking you to perform the experiment with your brain, that you claim doesn't actually exist, intact please.

You can try the disconnected brain version afterwards.

Point is, same way you could be made to NOT feel "pain" that is there, you can also be made to feel pain that is not there. There is no such thing as pain independent of your brain - whatever your brain registers as pain is pain.
Hence if you did this in a dream you'd also feel pain. Pain has nothing to do.with your habd but your brain

budaatum:
I know my Lord exists. You'll be sure too once you bother to understand what existence means and how to ascertain whether beings and things exist or not.

Funny guy. Who's your Lord as an atheist?

HellVictorinho6:
No universe exists

Whether

Tangible or not


But we arent minds


We just call what we express by intention or what we intend to express MIND

You could be right. We have no way of knowing what this truly is. We could easily be made to think there is absolutely a universe when there is no universe at all

budaatum:
Does he know how to read?

Surely, that's something?

He has to first exist to be reading, and we are not sure he exists. Just because there seems to be something like reading going on doesn't mean he exists

LordReed:
I said the reason diabetes survives is because the trait for susceptibility continues to be propagated and that diabetic people do not die before they can reproduce. Don't twist my words dumdum.

I don't want to call u a liar but you said it for several pages - that the ONLY reason diabetes survives is because diabetics reproduce!

LordReed:
They didn't become carnivores or omnivores dumdum, they've always been carnivores or omnivores.

Thus is NOT true. Man was a vegetarian for a long time. Why didn't goats follow suit?

LordReed:
I don't get embarrassed like you do cos I'm not a phony like you. I ought to have been writing nature not natural selection, that's why I was surprised you said I wrote natural selection. The statement should therefore be NATURE does not select anything.
.

Soo,
Q E D. (as usual!)

(Truly amazing how you always lose EVERY TIME we argue!)

LordReed:
Dumdum just says it as if it is true. LoLz. Na wa. They really need to teach critical thinking in school so that people stop falling mugu to nonsense. LoLz.

If you were at all capable of critical thinking you'd have realized long ago (like most of our geniuses) that you don’t know anything

budaatum:
While I am not particularly in the loop of your uncivil conversation with others, I am not out of the loop of the conversation that I am having with you.

You jumped into my conversation with the uncivil (u r right) Reed and the way you were talking let me know you did not know what it was all about

budaatum:
So, no selection whatsoever, right? Just a matter of the animals desire and ability to find food or die.

Can you see why it's absurd to now claim that animal was selected to live by a selector?

LordReed:
LoLz. Oh how I do love thee budaatum. Bwahahahahaha!

I.just saw this. You people are.RIDICULOUS!!
THE ENTIRE PROCESS IS CALLED NATURAL SELECTION!!!
Who but Reed kept harping on a selector??

budaatum:
Place your hand that doesn't actually exist upon a table that doesn't actually exist and hit it hard with a hammer that doesn't actually exist then come and tell me that whatever you feel doesn't actually exist please.

Just so you know, this is Philosophy 101. When you advance small you'd get to meet the likes of Heidegger.

I strongly suggest you learn more instead of assuming everyone knows nothing like you.

I'm NOT assuming. I KNOW you don't know ANYTHING - like all humans!
Please tell us what will happen if you do same thing but your brain is disconnected from your hand Or in a dream OR when hypnotized you can't feel pain OR when under heavy pain killer