MaxInDHouse:

All faithful servants of God believe that they will remain in their graves until they're called back to life {Job 14:13-15} Jesus himself said a time is coming when all those in the grave will hear his voice and come out {John 5:28-29 Paul also confirmed that there is going to be a resurrection! Act 24:15
So if i die today i'm not going anywhere but wait in my grave to be called back to life just as Jesus called Lazarus! John 11:44
As for Paul who said he will be with the Lord that's totally a different topic entirely but i will not leave you in the dark on that.
Jesus' kingdom supposed to be established in Jerusalem {Isaiah 2:3} so that's where all prophets of ancient times believe that they will be with the Christ {Act 1:6} but Jerusalem has been polluted with the blood of many prophets of God and finally Jesus Christ was persecuted, accused, arraigned, charged, judged, sentenced and executed in Jerusalem, that's why Jesus foretold that Jerusalem can no longer receive such a glory {Matthew 23:37-38} this made his disciples devastated and totally confused, the question now is "where are they going to stay to rule the earth with the Christ?" that's why Jesus made the popular statement found at John 14:1-4
This limited number of co-rulers {Luke 12:32} are the ones going to anywhere Jesus goes not all faithful people {Revelations 14:4} the rest will enjoy everlasting life here on planet earth.
So Jesus made a distinction when he said some will be in heaven {Matthew 5:3} while the rest will inherit the earth! Matthew 5:5
I belong to the other sheep Jesus talked about {John 10:16} so my place is not heaven but earth! Psalms 37:9-11, 29

I think the scriptures quoted is clear enough
At my death, I am with the Lord as other saints of God!

MaxInDHouse:

Earth is where God designed for mankind but heaven is for spirit life not physical {Psalms 115:16} so all those who lived until John the baptist can't go to heaven because the initiation of co-rulers with Christ has not been done {Matthew 11:11} it was established at Pentecost so the counting began from the first 11 Apostles of Christ who will be the foundation of that arrangement {Matthew 19:28} their names were written on the foundation stones of God's kingdom in heaven! Revelations 21:14
So from Abel to John the baptist are not going to heaven rather their own share is everlasting life on planet earth!

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still sleeping in their graves until now!
What Jesus meant here is that God has written their names in the list of those who will be resurrected, Apostle Paul under inspiration listed their names and called them Witnesses whose names is already in God's memory book! Hebrews 11:4-32
Many other faithful ones will join them and we will welcome them back to life here on earth because it's Christians that will be resurrected first so that the last faithful person to die will be the first to be resurrected! Matthew 19:30

May you have PEACE!

You mix up Heaven and Paradise.
At death, before Resurrection the physically dead righteous ones stay with the Lord
At resurrection, there is a new heaven and a new earth. The new earth is the Paradise of God)
Revelation 2:7
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I believe our discussion is not about the Paradise of God (which is after resurrection) but the state of the dead BEFORE the resurrection.
This is what Paul refers to as : "Home with the LORD"

MaxInDHouse:

The angels committed sexual immorality with female humans {Genesis 6:1-2} after God destroyed that generation with flood the angels dropped their materialised bodies and went back to heaven but God didn't allow them back in the midst of his loyal spirit sons {1Peter 3:19-20} so the chains and darkness means they're no longer able to return to their position. For instance when a human is kept in chains and darkness we know that he can't mingle with free humans that's the import of what you're reading, those angels no longer know what God is planning or the future of mankind therefore they're worried and looking for God's people to whom God will reveal the sacred secrets! 1Peter 1:12

So when you hear people agitating about what the JWs are saying about the endtime or date God is coming to destroy the wicked, know today that it's not those people that are really interested in whatever JWs are saying because they already thought we are nonentities, rather it's those fallen angels they are worshiping that's instigating them to come and agitate why JWs have refused to the them the exact day of judgment!

Are you saying that
Jude 1:6 is a symbolic expression of what happened to the Angels that left their abode?

MaxInDHouse:


Ògbéni you have nothing to offer so go and sit down somewhere!

Why then do you always come for me in any thread I expose the lies in Religion?
You are the one who need the sitting down so you will meditate and find out that you are being led by the Spirit of Religion and JW and not by the Spirit of the Sovereign Father. I had told you and will tell you again, the true and narrow way is not in Religion. Religion is the broad way that leads to destruction. Anyone can teach anything but if you don't know the history, origin and spiritually understand, innerstand and overstand what you teach...you are a False Teacher!

TenQ:

I believe our discussion is not about the Paradise of God (which is after resurrection) but the state of the dead BEFORE the resurrection.
This is what Paul refers to as : "Home with the LORD"

The dead will remain dead in their graves until they're called:

because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord! 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Paul believe that the first to resurrect are those who believe in the teachings of Christ (Christians) so where will they be before they are called? John 5:28-29

TenQ:

Are you saying that
Jude 1:6 is a symbolic expression of what happened to the Angels that left their abode?

Eternal punishment (death without hope of coming back)

bobestman:

Why then do you always come for me in any thread I expose the lies in Religion?
You are the one who need the sitting down so you will meditate and find out that you are being led by the Spirit of Religion and JW and not by the Spirit of the Sovereign Father. I had told you and will tell you again, the true and narrow way is not in Religion. Religion is the broad way that leads to destruction. Anyone can teach anything but if you don't know the history, origin and spiritually understand, innerstand and overstand what you teach...you are a False Teacher!

Whose words is the highlighted if not that of Jesus the founder of Christianity? (a religion)

Ògbéni you're a clown but i'll allow you to continue dancing round the circus!

MaxInDHouse:

Eternal punishment (death without hope of coming back)

Jude1:6
And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.

It seems my understanding of English language has failed me:
1. What does it mean that God reserved these angels for the judgment of the great day?
2. When is the great day of Judgement?

I guess the NWT will give a clearer picture!

MaxInDHouse:


The dead will remain dead in their graves until they're called:

because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord! 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Paul believe that the first to resurrect are those who believe in the teachings of Christ (Christians) so where will they be before they are called? John 5:28-29

You mean that means Christ is in the Grave!?

Even though this is speaking about physical resurrection, "the dead who are (present continuous tense) in union (not in memory book) with Christ". Note that the scripture did NOT say..."the dead who WERE (past tense) in Union with Christ..."

Resurrection imply the recombination of the physical body with the soul/spirit of man who are in union with Christ!

Your comprehension of simple English language is begging for some help sir. But you speek good english, your problem is forcing a verse to say what your doctrine says

TenQ:

The words of Christ states plainly that men can only kill the BODY and not the Soul and Spirit of another man
Only God can kill the BODY and thereafter still deal with the Soul/Spirit of a man

Any doctrine that suggests that man can also kill (cause to cease existing) the Soul and Spirit of a man is not Scriptural.
The implication is that at death, the spirit and soul of a person are intact and are with God.

At this point, it is clear that you are arguing with your own self as i have more than sufficiently stated the very same things you are here repeating. The rest is all you and your ideas though.

TenQ:

ANd a proper understanding of Jude will require that you understand what befell the angels who left their abode
1. What does eternal chain mean in Jude6?
2. Are those Angels dead (like Sodom and Gomorrah citizens) ?
3. If they are not dead, where are they?
4. Is Jude 6 just a parable?

Parable? What parable? Did DappaD mention anything about a parable ?

TenQ, please stop making illogical statements. Why have you not answered the simple question I asked you ?
Since fire and brimstone means torment, then where did the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah go after their death ? Abi they went for round two in another invisible realm lol

MaxInDHouse:


Whose words is the highlighted if not that of Jesus the founder of Christianity? (a religion)

Ògbéni you're a clown but i'll allow you to continue dancing round the circus!

Hahaha when I tell you that you are blind spiritually, you go think say I dey insult you
Jesus is an impostor the Vatican created and credited the teachings of the true Messiah to when they murdered Him. They changed his image, teachings, times , seasons etc to fulfill Daniel 7:25
He is a Hebrew Man not a Christian. He taught His ppl to Obey His Father's commandment and to return to the Covenant the Father made with them. He didn't abolish any law but came to fulfill them.
The Vatican killed Him and the true Hebrews/Jews who believe Him. All your Religions were created from the knowledge of the Hebrew Messiah and His ppl and they did a very bad job. This is why it's only those ppl called Ancient ppl can tell you the meaning and origin of many things you read in your Bible - Isaiah 44:7. It's their book and stories . The Vatican only twisted it and gave to Christian. They told the world that a Hebrew Messiah don't have Hebrew name and choose to call Him a name after their god.

This is the age of light. All these lies and many more will be exposed and the true way Re-installed- when the knowledge comes, everyone must seek the place the Father will put His knowledge. They will go there to learn of Him. Read Matthew 24:14, a particular brand of gospel different from what you all teach today shall be preached to all without which the end won't come. Ask yourself
why will another message or gospel come at endtime during the time of trouble- (tribulation) when you all preach the message Jesus gave you since he died in your various Religion?None of you know what the gospel entails only the Few who will be taught it secretly.

Your arguments make me tell you deep things but you are too proud to understand these things.
Pls follow your JW in peace and leave me alone so these truth will not shock you

MaxInDHouse:


The dead will remain dead in their graves until they're called:

because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord! 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Paul believe that the first to resurrect are those who believe in the teachings of Christ (Christians) so where will they be before they are called? John 5:28-29

How did you become a Christian? Take us back to the very first encounter, please.

TenQ:

You mean that means Christ is in the Grave!?
Even though this is speaking about physical resurrection, "the dead who are (present continuous tense) in union (not in memory book) with Christ". Note that the scripture did NOT say..."the dead who WERE (past tense) in Union with Christ..."
Resurrection imply the recombination of the physical body with the soul/spirit of man who are in union with Christ!
Your comprehension of simple English language is begging for some help sir. But you speek good english, your problem is forcing a verse to say what your doctrine says

How did Christ refer to those who weren't his followers:

Jesus said to him: “Keep following me, and let the dead bury their dead.” Matthew 8:22

As for those following Jesus he said:

Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.” John 11:23-27

Did Jesus' disciples died? YES all of them but according to Jesus they are not dead because their names is in God's memory but as for those who are not Jesus' followers even though they are walking around they are dead!

That's why Jesus said:

And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna! Matthew 10:28

The soul in this context doesn't mean everyone but those having faith as their names are written in God's memory but as for those without faith God has forgotten them in their graves at death! Psalms 9:17

So the dead in union with Christ are Jesus' dead followers who will be resurrected not those who are living because Jesus substantiate in his words to Martha that those who are living among his followers will never taste death at all when the trumpet sounds!

STORY! STORY!! STORY!!!
Who are the believers in your fairy-tale?
Don't worry i will leave you in your delusion!

bobestman:

Hahaha when I tell you that you are blind spiritually, you go think say I dey insult you
Jesus is an impostor the Vatican created and credited the teachings of the true Messiah to when they murdered Him. They changed his image, teachings, times , seasons etc to fulfill Daniel 7:25
He is a Hebrew Man not a Christian. He taught His ppl to Obey His Father's commandment and to return to the Covenant the Father made with them. He didn't abolish any law but came to fulfill them.
The Vatican killed Him and the true Hebrews/Jews who believe Him. All your Religions were created from the knowledge of the Hebrew Messiah and His ppl and they did a very bad job. This is why it's only those ppl called Ancient ppl can tell you the meaning and origin of many things you read in your Bible - Isaiah 44:7. It's their book and stories . The Vatican only twisted it and gave to Christian. They told the world that a Hebrew Messiah don't have Hebrew name and choose to call Him a name after their god.

This is the age of light. All these lies and many more will be exposed and the true way Re-installed- when the knowledge comes, everyone must seek the place the Father will put His knowledge. They will go there to learn of Him. Read Matthew 24:14, a particular brand of gospel different from what you all teach today shall be preached to all without which the end won't come. Ask yourself
why will another message or gospel come at endtime during the time of trouble- (tribulation) when you all preach the message Jesus gave you since he died in your various Religion?None of you know what the gospel entails only the Few who will be taught it secretly.

Your arguments make me tell you deep things but you are too proud to understand these things.
Pls follow your JW in peace and leave me alone so these truth will not shock you

Acehart:

How did you become a Christian? Take us back to the very first encounter, please.

I'm not here for STORY, what i'm here to tell you is that there is nothing like HellFire the word written there is Gehenna it's a symbol of complete destruction!

MaxInDHouse:


I'm not here for STORY, what i'm here to tell you is that there is nothing like HellFire the word written there is Gehenna it's a symbol of complete destruction!

Did you read the initial writeup? If you did you would see clearly that at this present time, such a place doesn’t exist. Maybe you ran into this thread to propagate your own agenda

Acehart:

Did you read the initial writeup? If you did you would see clearly that at this present time, such a place doesn’t exist. Maybe you ran into this thread to propagate your own agenda

Then it means you're responding to the post that's not meant for you!
Because i never quoted you since i've noticed the topic but it's like you're not comfortable with the way i'm substantiating what Jesus taught with the scriptures.
Why did you quote me in the first place?
I think this is between me and TenQ?

DappaD:



Parable? What parable? Did DappaD mention anything about a parable ?

TenQ, please stop making illogical statements. Why have you not answered the simple question I asked you ?
Since fire and brimstone means torment, then where did the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah go after their death ? Abi they went for round two in another invisible realm lol

It's not surprising that you can't answer a simple question from the bible. Again, I say to understand Jude1:7 you need to understand Jude1:6

1. What does eternal chain mean in Jude6?
2. Are those Angels dead (like Sodom and Gomorrah citizens) ?
3. If they are not dead, where are they?
4. Is Jude 6 just another parable?

MaxInDHouse:


How did Christ refer to those who weren't his followers:

Jesus said to him: “Keep following me, and let the dead bury their dead.” Matthew 8:22

As for those following Jesus he said:

Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.” John 11:23-27

Did Jesus' disciples died? YES all of them but according to Jesus they are not dead because their names is in God's memory but as for those who are not Jesus' followers even though they are walking around they are dead!

That's why Jesus said:

And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna! Matthew 10:28

The soul in this context doesn't mean everyone but those having faith as their names are written in God's memory but as for those without faith God has forgotten them in their graves at death! Psalms 9:17

So the dead in union with Christ are Jesus' dead followers who will be resurrected not those who are living because Jesus substantiate in his words to Martha that those who are living among his followers will never taste death at all when the trumpet sounds!

Even though you dodged answering questions about tense of simple English language in the last post, you bring another scripture. I will oblige you

John 11:23-27
Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”

What does the highlight in red mean?

1. Marther said:
I know that Lazarus will rise on the last day
2. I am the Resurrection and Life
3. Anyone who has faith in me and dies will rise again
4. Anyone who is living and has faith in me will never die

Was Jesus refering to the day of Resurrection with respect to LIFE?

Certainly not, because
1. Marther already concluded that at resurrection Lazarus will rise from the dead
2. Jesus is referring to physical death and spiritual death
i. Anyone who has faith in Christ and physically dies will rise again
ii. Anyone who has faith in Christ and is still alive will NEVER die

What does Jesus mean by "Anyone who has faith in Christ and is still alive will NEVER die"!?

TenQ:

It's not surprising that you can't answer a simple question from the bible. Again, I say to understand Jude1:7 you need to understand Jude1:6
1. What does eternal chain mean in Jude6?
2. Are those Angels dead (like Sodom and Gomorrah citizens) ?
3. If they are not dead, where are they?
4. Is Jude 6 just another parable?

Answers to your four questions:

[1] 2Peter 2:4 the CHAINS in that context means they are restricted from mixing with other loyal angels!

[2] They are spirit beings like Satan, when God declared judgment on Adam and Eve, Satan was never told that he will die that day which means Satan's destroyer will come in the future {Genesis 3:15} so they are living beings unlike Adam and Eve who are dead and all their descendants along with them! Genesis 3:19 compare to Romans 5:12

[3]They are here on this planet roving about on the earth, they are the powers behind witchcraft and black magic throughout the world, but they've been barred from mixing with other loyal angels! Deuteronomy 18:10-11

[4]No it's about what really happened but the terms used are symbolic that's why we need to understand otherwise we will misinterpret it and their will be nothing to show for our faith! Daniel 12:10

TenQ:

Even though you dodged answering questions about tense of simple English language in the last post, you bring another scripture. I will oblige you

John 11:23-27
Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”

What does the highlight in red mean?

1. Marther said:
I know that Lazarus will rise on the last day
2. I am the Resurrection and Life
3. Anyone who has faith in me and dies will rise again
4. Anyone who is living and has faith in me will never die

Was Jesus refering to the day of Resurrection with respect to LIFE?

Certainly not, because
1. Marther already concluded that at resurrection Lazarus will rise from the dead
2. Jesus is referring to physical death and spiritual death
i. Anyone who has faith in Christ and physically dies will rise again
ii. Anyone who has faith in Christ and is still alive will NEVER die

What does Jesus mean by "Anyone who has faith in Christ and is still alive will NEVER die"!?

Now i know you're just trying to be heady!

I quoted that to help you reason that the dead will continue sleeping in their graves until the time of resurrection, that is what Martha and all those standing there believes! Job 14:13-15

So when Jesus said those who believe in him if they die they will rise (because he will resurrect them) but all those living (as in those having faith that happens to be alive when Jesus come to resurrect the dead) will never taste death at all, rather they will continue to grow young again if they're old! Job 33:25

Just humble yourself and learn there's no need to be heady about this, i was a Muslim and a soldier before i humbly requested for a home Bible study with JWs (free) i never know how to quote the scriptures until they began praying with me, today you'll think the whole Bible is in my head but it's the work of the active force of their God (Holy Spirit)

But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you! John 14:26

May you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:


Now i know you're just trying to be heady!

I quoted that to help you reason that the dead will continue sleeping in their graves until the time of resurrection, that is what Martha and all those standing there believes! Job 14:13-15

So when Jesus said those who believe in him if they die they will rise (because he will resurrect them) but all those living (as in those having faith that happens to be alive when Jesus come to resurrect the dead) will never taste death at all, rather they will continue to grow young again if they're old! Job 33:25

Just humble yourself and learn there's no need to be heady about this, i was a Muslim and a soldier before i humbly requested for a home Bible study with JWs (free) i never know how to quote the scriptures until they began praying with me, today you'll think the whole Bible is in my head but it's the work of the active force of their God (Holy Spirit)

But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you! John 14:26

May you have PEACE!

With due respect Mr Maximus, you are the one who is being heady because the scripture is not about sleeping (death) but of LIVING

You need help to reason that the dead will continue sleeping in their graves LIVING until the time of resurrection, ! Job 14:13-15.
That is why Jesus explicitly says that those who believe in Him WILL NEVER DIE

MaxInDHouse:


Answers to your four questions:

[1] 2Peter 2:4 the CHAINS in that context means they are restricted from mixing with other loyal angels!

[2] They are spirit beings like Satan, when God declared judgment on Adam and Eve, Satan was never told that he will die that day which means Satan's destroyer will come in the future {Genesis 3:15} so they are living beings unlike Adam and Eve who are dead and all their descendants along with them! Genesis 3:19 compare to Romans 5:12

[3]They are here on this planet roving about on the earth, they are the powers behind witchcraft and black magic throughout the world, but they've been barred from mixing with other loyal angels! Deuteronomy 18:10-11

[4]No it's about what really happened but the terms used are symbolic that's why we need to understand otherwise we will misinterpret it and their will be nothing to show for our faith! Daniel 12:10

In other words, Jude 1:6 is SYMBOLIC.

If Jude1:6 is Symbolic, why do you treat Jude1:7 as Literal?

TenQ:

With due respect Mr Maximus, you are the one who is being heady because the scripture is not about sleeping (death) but of LIVING

You need help to reason that the dead will continue sleeping in their graves LIVING until the time of resurrection, ! Job 14:13-15.
That is why Jesus explicitly says that those who believe in Him WILL NEVER DIE

Remember he is at the grave where Lazarus (one who believes in him was buried) then he said:

The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all.

That means believers in Christ will also die but Jesus will resurrect them, but those who are alive when Jesus comes to resurrect the dead will never die at all!

TenQ:

In other words, Jude 1:6 is SYMBOLIC.
If Jude1:6 is Symbolic, why do you treat Jude1:7 as Literal?

You just want to argue but it's OK you can continue with your beliefs but the truth remains that there is no literal place called HellFire!

MaxInDHouse:


Remember he is at the grave where Lazarus (one who believes in him was buried) then he said:

The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all.

That means believers in Christ will also die but Jesus will resurrect them, but those who are alive when Jesus comes to resurrect the dead will never die at all!

MaxInDHouse:


You just want to argue but it's OK you can continue with your beliefs but the truth remains that there is no literal place called HellFire!

Like a table tennis game, this will continue till eternity.

I stand with only Christ through what the scriptures say!

TenQ:

Like a table tennis game, this will continue till eternity.
I stand with only Christ through the scriptures say!

That's exactly what false religionists will say but they will never be able to present their family of faith like Jesus did {Matthew 12:46-50} they will just continue arguing with everybody in the name of Jesus and by the end of the day each one of them is isolated in his line of thought {Luke 11:23} trying to claim he is right while Jesus' real followers are united in the same line of thought! John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10

No matter what you guys think, read and quote. The merciful God will still punish sinners.

Yippeedaniel:

No matter what you guys think, read and quote. The merciful God will still punish sinners.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaa you goofed big time!

Merciful God will destroy UNREPENTANT sinners not all sinners because we're all sinners!

MaxInDHouse:


That's exactly what false religionists will say but they will never be able to present their family of faith like Jesus did {Matthew 12:46-50} they will just continue arguing with everybody in the name of Jesus and by the end of the day each one of them is isolated in his line of thought {Luke 11:23} trying to claim he is right while Jesus' real followers are united in the same line of thought! John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10

We'll see with time who is truely of Christ.

Shalom