*Disclaimer: Please note that I am not speaking as an authority. I, myself, I am more of an apatheist. The existence of God(or lemme say an anthropomorphic God ) is basically useless and irrelevant. However in my own opinion, I think one needs a certain degree of atheism to move to apatheism. That being said, I'd like to pay homage and to give respect to all the atheists on NL (Mr Seun and Hopefullandlord and many more that I appreciate their level of immeasurable intellectual capability). The purpose of this thread and subsequent threads is to demystify the God's ideology.

"when you get exposed to a lie over and over again, sooner the lie will become so true in your mind that even the truth will be seen as the lie"
Hi Guys!
The purpose of this thread is to ensure that all the Civilized people on this forum have a central place of discussion. The theists are free to go about with their thing, but the Civilized cannot possibly hold meetings in buildings for the fear of religion intolerance in Nigeria.
This thread does not belong to anybody, but it's open to everyone who is willing to contribute a thing or two so as to aid effective enlightenment. I'd like to say here that one of the best decisions I'd ever made in my entirely life was dropping the concept of God/gods and I'm sure every civilised person feels just exact same. So I hereby call on all the respected and knowledgeable civilised people on Nairaland to please come all along to achieve this goal.
I spent the first 18years of my life a Catholic, did baptism and confirmation, did alter service, before I joined RCCG then LFCW. I must confess that the days I spent believing in the God's ideology were the most useless and unproductive days of my life that I regret still and I've made a vow to ensure that no one spends their youth days on fruitless and unproductive things called ' '. Though I had many questions in my heart by the fall of ***, but light came thru a book authored by Armin Navabi an ex-muslim turned atheist.The scales fell of my eyes. All my entire life I've been scammed.

Sorry!

Religion need to give humans space..

It's very essential..

LikeAking:
Sorry!

Religion need to give humans space..

It's very essential..

Can you tell me one importance of religion(that other actions/services cannot offer)?

jaephoenix:

Can you tell me one importance of religion(that other actions/services cannot offer)?

I can't..
I am not a religious guy..

LikeAking:


I can't..
I am not a religious guy..

Ok. Since you aint religious then why do you think religion is relevant.

jaephoenix:

Ok. Since you aint religious then why do you think religion is relevant.

U are misunderstanding..

I hate religion more than you.

My kids won't practice any religion...

Before our religious simpletons will start running their mouth.

1. I have something I'm doing with my life. I
work.

2. I am also learning some skills.

3. I've read about 3500 pages of educative
materials just this year (so be cautioned
how you come at me)

I'm ex-christain , so most of my points may come from the Bible, I'd like ex-muslims to help with koran and so on...

Getting into the point proper.

°The God of the Bible is not The Alpha and Omega. Gen. 1 vs 1 "In the begining, God created heaven and Earth..". The "In" in the above verse is not a preposition of time. If it was, then it raises a question wether the creation of heaven and Earth was truly the begining. This further means that something was existing before the begining which is basically impossible because the beginning is supposed to be the begining. The above "in" is a preposition of place which means that, God himself was in the begining when he created heaven and Earth. Therefore he is not Alpha. The begining itself is the Alpha.(I am not speaking as an authority, and I sincerely pay homage to the linguists).

We rebut that the God of the bible is omnipresent. Anyone who says that(demonstrative pronoun) God is omnipresent must be lying thru their teeth or be highly delusional because such person is not everywhere at the same time to confirm that God is truly omnipresent. In Gen 3 , we saw that God wasn't in the garden of Eden when the serpent beguiled the woman. he came around in verse 8. Also in Gen 28:16 Jacob said "The Lord is in this place..." which means the Lord was not in some other places that he had been. There are many other verses, but this should do for laying foundation.

2. We rebut that the God of the bible is omniscient. Anyone who says that God is omniscient must be lying thru their teeth or be highly delusional because such person does not know everything themselves and there is no way you can tell if someone gives a wrong answer to the question you yourself don't have an answer to. Let's say he is omniscient, he knows everything and he cannot forget anything, so therefore he does not KNOW what it feels like to forget things (Then he is not all knowing, because he doesn't know what it is like to forget stuffs). however the bible further contradicts itself in Gen 3 when God was calling unto Adam, he was completely ignorant of the situation that he had to ask Adam "where are you" first
he didn't know where Adam was.
he didn't know Adam was naked.
he didn't know how Adam knew he was naked
he wasn't sure they had eaten from the tree.
also in Gen 22:12 God said to Abraham, "now I know that, thou fearest me" anyone with high reasoning capability will realise that statement meant that God didn't know that Abraham feared him until after the test. so he is still not ominiscient. In Gen 6:6 he repented for creating human , that also means he didn't know humans will turn out to be this wicked, therefore he didn't know that from the beginning (this contradicts the concept of omnisciency) many more like that, but this will do for the foundation.

3. We rebut that the God of the bible is omnibenevolent . We should ask what benevolence is, if God created Adam and Eve. Thru his omnisciency, he must have known before creation that they were going to sin, yet he went ahead to create them, he knew they were going to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, yet he created the tree. Thru his Omnipotency he could create them in such a way that they wouldn't be able to go against his wishes. But yet he created them with the possibility of sin. A manufacturer should be held responsible for the malfunctioning of a product and not the product. Therefore he should be held responsible. Also, before they ate of the fruit, Adam and Eve had no idea of the knowledge of the good and evil , they didn't know whether it was a good thing to obey God or not, they didn't know wether obedience was good or not. They were like babies. They were innocent. They were wrongly punished.
This cannot be the xteristics of an Omnibenevolent God. He took over the land of others for the sake of the Isrealites. To me he is more of a racist. The God of the whole world cannot love some and hate some. He hardened the heart of Pharoah, yet punished him. That's more of an egocentric slave master, he must be pretty insecure and immature. That cannot be the attribute of a God of the whole world. Isaiah 45:7 says "Good and Evil, I the Lord create these things" , How can this kind of God be Omnibenevolent. Any argument against the counterargument on the omnibenevolence of God is dead on arrival.

FRANCISTOWN:
2. We rebut that the God of the bible is omniscient. Anyone who says that God is omniscient must be lying thru their teeth or be highly delusional because such person does not know everything themselves and there is no way you can tell if someone gives a wrong answer to the question you yourself don't have an answer to. Let's say he is omniscient, he knows everything and he cannot forget anything, so therefore he does not KNOW what it feels like to forget things (Then he is not all knowing, because he doesn't know what it is like to forget stuffs). however the bible further contradicts itself in Gen 3 when God was calling unto Adam, he was completely ignorant of the situation that he had to ask Adam "where are you" first
he didn't know where Adam was.
he didn't know Adam was naked.
he didn't know how Adam knew he was naked
he wasn't sure they had eaten from the tree.
also in Gen 22:12 God said to Abraham, "now I know that, thou fearest me" anyone with high reasoning capability will realise that statement meant that God didn't know that Abraham feared him until after the test. so he is still not ominiscient. In Gen 6:6 he repented for creating human , that also means he didn't know humans will turn out to be this wicked, therefore he didn't know that from the beginning (this contradicts the concept of omnisciency) many more like that, but this will do for the foundation.

what is apatheism?

following

When they know that they are bringing , it always starts with an attack on Christians to stop them from destroying the lies and rubbish that they are about to drop

FRANCISTOWN:


°The God of the Bible is not The Alpha and Omega. Gen. 1 vs 1 "In the begining, God created heaven and Earth..". The "In" in the above verse is not a preposition of time. If it was, then it raises a question wether the creation of heaven and Earth was truly the begining.

Good observation. But the Bible did not say "in the beginning of every thing" but in the beginning.

So the question is "Whose beginning"?"

Which clearly indicates man's beginning. So heaven and earth is about man and not about angels or other places.

If you say the Hebrew God is a scam, might there be any other spiritual being?

FRANCISTOWN:
We rebut that the God of the bible is omnipresent.

You can only rebut when an allegation is made and no one has alleged. So what you are doing is "you dispute", so it is who rebut. That is The Law of proper debate.

FRANCISTOWN:

Anyone who says that(demonstrative pronoun) God is omnipresent must be lying thru their teeth or be highly delusional because such person is not everywhere at the same time to confirm that God is truly omnipresent. In Gen 3 , we saw that God wasn't in the garden of Eden when the serpent beguiled the woman. he came around in verse 8. Also in Gen 28:16 Jacob said "The Lord is in this place..." which means the Lord was not in some other places that he had been. There are many other verses, but this should do for laying foundation.

Look at your phone, car mannequin! Are you not omnipresent around and over them?

Is there anything that shall happen to them which you would not know?

That is what omnipresent means. It does not mean that you must be stuck your toys (creations) like a man who never removes his wristwatch.

FRANCISTOWN:
2. Anyone who says that God is omniscient must be lying thru their teeth or be highly delusional because such person does not know everything themselves and there is no way you can tell if someone gives a wrong answer to the question you yourself don't have an answer to.

If you say "there is no way..." it means even you too are wrong .

Is it possible for Steve jobs to know everything about his iPhone? No it is not possible, for he is its creator.

Creators Know everything about their toys (creations)

FRANCISTOWN:

Let's say he is omniscient, he knows everything and he cannot forget anything, so therefore he does not KNOW what it feels like to forget things (Then he is not all knowing, because he doesn't know what it is like to forget stuffs).

"Know everything, yet does not know". People would call you mad

FRANCISTOWN:

however the bible further contradicts itself in Gen 3 when God was calling unto Adam, he was completely ignorant of the situation that he had to ask Adam "where are you" first
he didn't know where Adam was.
he didn't know Adam was naked.
he didn't know how Adam knew he was naked
he wasn't sure they had eaten from the tree.
also in Gen 22:12 God said to Abraham, "now I know that, thou fearest me" anyone with high reasoning capability will realise that statement meant that God didn't know that Abraham feared him until after the test. so he is still not ominiscient. In Gen 6:6 he repented for creating human , that also means he didn't know humans will turn out to be this wicked, therefore he didn't know that from the beginning (this contradicts the concept of omnisciency) many more like that, but this will do for the foundation.

Obviously you don't know what fair hearing, conviction of crime, trial and judgement means and the pleasure of creating.

That is why you heard that you were created to please The Lord but you did not get it. So now you have to go to the place where useless toys are thrown into.

Dtruthspeaker:



Is it possible for Steve jobs to know everything about his iPhone? No it is not possible, for he is its creator.

Creators Know everything about their toys (creations)

I thought you said you always search for facts first? Steve Jobs didn't create the iPhone. He didn't design its shape, it's internals nor did he personally manufacture any of the components. The iPhone creation is credited to Apple company because it actually was made by a team of Apple employees.

By inference Jobs didn't know everything about the iPhone.

Get your facts straight.

LordReed:


I thought you said you always search for facts first? Steve Jobs didn't create the iPhone. He didn't design its shape, it's internals nor did he personally manufacture any of the components. The iPhone creation is credited to Apple company because it actually was made by a team of Apple employees.

By inference Jobs didn't know everything about the iPhone.

Get your facts straight.

He is credited with being it's creator and is responsible for it therefore he is supposed to know.

Dtruthspeaker:

He is credited with being it's creator and is responsible for it therefore he is supposed to know.

Show me where he is credited with its creation.

LordReed:


Show me where he is credited with its creation.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/the-iphone-at-15-steve-jobs-revealed-his-great-product-15-years-ago/&ved=2ahUKEwjs86D73L39AhXQhP0HHY9TDTgQtwJ6BAgvEAE&usg=AOvVaw0cqtDR6kJ2RdZwefNbG7sO

Note "his great product". Meaning "Na him get am".

Dtruthspeaker:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/the-iphone-at-15-steve-jobs-revealed-his-great-product-15-years-ago/&ved=2ahUKEwjs86D73L39AhXQhP0HHY9TDTgQtwJ6BAgvEAE&usg=AOvVaw0cqtDR6kJ2RdZwefNbG7sO

Note "his great product". Meaning "Na him get am".

This isn't what I asked. My statement again, show me where he is credited with its creation. This doesn't say he created it.

Dtruthspeaker:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/the-iphone-at-15-steve-jobs-revealed-his-great-product-15-years-ago/&ved=2ahUKEwjs86D73L39AhXQhP0HHY9TDTgQtwJ6BAgvEAE&usg=AOvVaw0cqtDR6kJ2RdZwefNbG7sO

Note "his great product". Meaning "Na him get am".

For your enlightenment.

HellVictorinho7:
what is apatheism?

Simply put: to consider it useless and irrelevant wether God exists or not

Dtruthspeaker:
When they know that they are bringing , it always starts with an attack on Christians to stop them from destroying the lies and rubbish that they are about to drop

Christians are the ones who always consider themselves special, when infact they are nothing special in reality. Christians are the most populous religious sect, with lots of lies and unrealistic promises.

FRANCISTOWN:

Simply put: to consider it useless and irrelevant wether God exists or not

it is relevant since we talk about it at least

Dtruthspeaker:


Good observation. But the Bible did not say "in the beginning of every thing" but in the beginning.

So the question is "Whose beginning"?"

Which clearly indicates man's beginning. So heaven and earth is about man and not about angels or other places.

If this was the case, then Gen 1:1 should be rewritten to be "In the beginning God took some dust of the ground and made a man, then he called him Adam"

Let's not even talk about the fallacies and the inconsistencies in the account.

That's what you guys always do, you add to your Bible on a steady. So your point was dead even before it arrived. Sir! "In the begining" means "In the beginning"

HellVictorinho7:
it is relevant since we talk about it at least

We are talking about it now because it's about time religion packed it's bag. That's the reason I'm Anti-theist atheistic at the moment

akwesenana:
If you say the Hebrew God is a scam, might there be any other spiritual being?

This is a good question, but before I answer this... Do you have any proof or have experienced any effect that points to any supernatural being?

FRANCISTOWN:

We are talking about it now because it's about time religion packed it's bag. That's the reason I'm Anti-theist atheistic at the moment

but u cannot force it out

FRANCISTOWN:

We are talking about it now because it's about time religion packed it's bag. That's the reason I'm Anti-theist atheistic at the moment

I doubt humans will ever completely abandon religion as long as mystery exists. However society is evolving increasingly away from the more idiotic ideas religion tends to breed. Maybe not in a uniform fashion but steadily so. The fact that we are even on an online public forum discussing it is a testament to that.

Dtruthspeaker:


You can only rebut when an allegation is made and no one has alleged. So what you are doing is "you dispute", so it is who rebut. That is The Law of proper debate.

Bros! Once again, we rebute

Dtruthspeaker:

Look at your phone, car mannequin! Are you not omnipresent around and over them?

Is there anything that shall happen to them which you would not know?

Yes, many things can happen to them which you may not know. Your phone may drop off your pocket without your knowledge. One's store might be robbed and mannequins may be stolen. You may pull up your car wrongly and boys may be loosening the wheels while you are busy laughing in a friend's apartment. I once left my phone at my office and I couldn't tell how many calls I had missed until the following morning

Dtruthspeaker:

That is what omnipresent means. It does not mean that you must be stuck your toys (creations) like a man who never removes his wristwatch.

Good point: Then God was not always stuck with them(he was not with them) then he is not omnipresent.