EMILO2STAY:
you should be ashamed to call me confused because you are the confused one. and you have shown it. your lack of comprehension is making you confused. the information I give is heavy for to comprehend and thtas why you call me confused.

you cant deny that you have learned a lot from you should see it as a privilege.

show me where I said that the falling away is the fall of rome? I am waing pls dont fail
you dont understand simple things and that is because you lack basic knowledge of history.
I said the falling away is the departure of the apostate church from the true church. and this apostate church would gain power at the fall of rome. I have proven this times and again through the book of daniel 7.

you are obviously the confused one, so according to you john has a different antichrist and paul has his own antichrist.. can you see that you lack simple understanding. a man who does not know that the bible writers are speaking through one spirirt and they are saying the same.

let me ask you are there two antichrist? and where did the bible mention them. I am waiting.

antiochus epiphanes was a greek and not a roman. your see your lack of undesstanding?
antiochus did not persecute the saints. antiochus did not change the commanment of God, anticohus did not put himself in place of christ. antiochus did not rule the world.

the book of daniel said the antichrist will arise from rome in daniel 7 so mr you are wrong.

pls today is sunday I am ready for you . I have already shown you enough evidence that you cannot help but agree with me that the antichrist is a system headed by a man.
I wll also make agree with me today in the end so I am waiting.

Lol

I have not been readings.your posts, just gleaming through. I'm very busy at the moment. My responses may not be comprehensive, and may not address your points headlong but I have done my best to let you know that there's a system and there's a man. While you think that the system is the anti, I'm making you know that there's a man in the system. A devil-incarnate. Satan's last card. I'll find time today to school you.

The Roman Catholic church started in Rome. It wasn't even part of the antichrists John was talking about. I've not been fully reading your posts but today I'll try to read and respond. I'm in one of my very busy days, additional I got discouraged reading your texts when you were writing in all smalls letters, with no order.

What do you think you're saying that I should learn from? That the Antichrist has already come? Lol. The same way you said the Jesus came in 1914 - or are you not a JW? If you're not a JW, I'm surprised where you got all those craps from.

FxMasterz:


Lol

I have not been readings.your posts, just gleaming through. I'm very busy at the moment. My responses may not be comprehensive, and may not address your points headlong but I have done my best to let you know that there's a system and there's a man. While you think that the system is the anti, I'm making you know that there's a man in the system. A devil-incarnate. Satan's last card. I'll find time today to school you.

The Roman Catholic church started in Rome. It wasn't even part of the antichrists John was talking about. I've not been fully reading your posts but today I'll try to read and respond. I'm in one of my very busy days, additional I got discouraged reading your texts when you were writing in all smalls letters, with no order.

What do you think you're saying that I should learn from? That the Antichrist has already come? Lol. The same way you said the Jesus came in 1914 - or are you not a JW? If you're not a JW, I'm surprised where you got all those craps from.

look I am not in your level for your info. and I know I have schooled you enough for you for you to admiit that the antichrist isnt just a man but a system headed by a man.

there is no devil incarnate to come in the future. the devil incarnate are in the popes who assume the office of the vicar of christ. this is bible truth and the position of the reformers. also you must be very ignorant to think that john was talking about a falling away that will happen in jerusalem. christianity was spreading fast and it got to rome even during the time of the apostles. and the apostles understood that the falling away and corruption of the church will not happen in jerusalem but in rome the headquaters of world corruption

see the definition of apostasia again in case you dont understand; "APOSTASY is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs.-- Wikipedia

from the above have you seen that you are wrong to think it has to do with peoples love waxing cold !! can you see your own ignorance now. are you seeing your disgrace? pls feel ashamed small nahh..

let me also educate you for free again; the doctrine you believe is known as futurism proposed by a catholic jesuit known as francisco ribera in 1585. this was in the wake of the protestant reformation by Martin luther and other reformers who called the office of the papacy the antichrist. this has been the views of the early christians from the time of the apostles until 1585. these below are excerpts from wikipedia its not even hidden


In the late Middle Ages and the Protestant Reformation, some commentators sought
to identify the Antichrist with the Pope, so that figures from the Book of Revelation might not only be interpreted as representing figures in the past (such as the Emperor
Nero) or in the future (in the Last Days), but also in the present. Ribera in 1585 began writing a 500-page commentary on the Book of Revelation, titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarii, proposing that the first chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest referred to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy . Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God

Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem

Abolish the Christian religion

Deny Jesus Christ

Destroy Rome

Be received by the Jews

Pretend to be God

Kill the two witnesses of God

Conquer the world.

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Ribera

this view follows the dispensational eschatological view which holds that the jews have a different programe of salvation and that there eyes will be opened when the antichrist breaks his covenant with them. all these are false doctrine of the jesuit. just to take away fingers pointing to the papacy as antichrist and they have succeeded with people like you believing it .

I can school you for free every day and twice on sunday. my previouse questions still stands. you have not attempted them lol.. nah me you wan form for lol you never start. bring it on let me see what you got.

and yes I have thought you that the antichrist has come already if not tell me the significance of the little horns eyes and mouth and if it has arisen out of the beast or not and prove it with history and the bible I am waiting patiently.


pls I am not a jw, you are now showing weakness by putting words in my mouth and lying against me. where did I say christ came in 1914. I thought I was talking to a reasonable human beign

TruthinAction:
The false prophet is the Christ or Messiah the Jews are still waiting for. He will be accepted as the long awaited Messiah. But their eyes will be opened after three and a half years when he sets up the image of the beast in the Temple of God.

advocatejare

The Pope looks more like that false prophet though, but I can't be too sure. He's definitely a false prophet, but I'm not sure if he's THE false prophet.

EMILO2STAY:
look I am not in your level for your info. and I know I have schooled you enough for you for you to admiit that the antichrist isnt just a man but a system headed by a man.

there is no devil incarnate to come in the future. the devil incarnate are in the popes who assume the office of the vicar of christ. this is bible truth and the position of the reformers. also you must be very ignorant to think that john was talking about a falling away that will happen in jerusalem. christianity was spreading fast and it got to rome even during the time of the apostles. and the apostles understood that the falling away and corruption of the church will not happen in jerusalem but in rome the headquaters of world corruption

see the definition of apostasia again in case you dont understand; "APOSTASY is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs.-- Wikipedia

from the above have you seen that you are wrong to think it has to do with peoples love waxing cold !! can you see your own ignorance now. are you seeing your disgrace? pls feel ashamed small nahh..

let me also educate you for free again; the doctrine you believe is known as futurism proposed by a catholic jesuit known as francisco ribera in 1585. this was in the wake of the protestant reformation by Martin luther and other reformers who called the office of the papacy the antichrist. this has been the views of the early christians from the time of the apostles until 1585. these below are excerpts from wikipedia its not even hidden


In the late Middle Ages and the Protestant Reformation, some commentators sought
to identify the Antichrist with the Pope, so that figures from the Book of Revelation might not only be interpreted as representing figures in the past (such as the Emperor
Nero) or in the future (in the Last Days), but also in the present. Ribera in 1585 began writing a 500-page commentary on the Book of Revelation, titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarii, proposing that the first chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest referred to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy . Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God

Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem

Abolish the Christian religion

Deny Jesus Christ

Destroy Rome

Be received by the Jews

Pretend to be God

Kill the two witnesses of God

Conquer the world.

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Ribera

this view follows the dispensational eschatological view which holds that the jews have a different programe of salvation and that there eyes will be opened when the antichrist breaks his covenant with them. all these are false doctrine of the jesuit. just to take away fingers pointing to the papacy as antichrist and they have succeeded with people like you believing it .

I can school you for free every day and twice on sunday. my previouse questions still stands. you have not attempted them lol.. nah me you wan form for lol you never start. bring it on let me see what you got.

and yes I have thought you that the antichrist has come already if not tell me the significance of the little horns eyes and mouth and if it has arisen out of the beast or not and prove it with history and the bible I am waiting patiently.


pls I am not a jw, you are now showing weakness by putting words in my mouth and lying against me. where did I say christ came in 1914. I thought I was talking to a reasonable human beign

The first way to know an heretic is by his pride and bloated ego. You don't know me, yet you boast yourself to be someone not in the level of an individual you know nothing about. Is that not plain arrogance? Very demonically induced pride.

I have pointed out your errors. Honestly, if not due to the volume of tasks on my table which make me read hastily and post hastily, I would have matched several points with scriptures upon scriptures to expose your foolishness. Just give me time, I'll come for you once I'm free.

Did I say that the antichrist is a system headed by a man? Quote where I said that!

My position is that there's a system. An antichrist system. Infact, the entire unbelieving world is an antichrist system . Anything anti-God is antichrist. But then, there's a system headed by The Antichrist. The system is different from the antichrist. The system is currently at work right now in the world. In its appointment time, the antichrist would be revealed. He heads the system.

There are so many flaws in your argument. My usual way of countering unbalanced information here on Nairaland is to quote you and counter, or produce screenshots of relevant sections of your quotes and counter them one after the other.

Frankly speaking, your posts and arguments appear unintelligent. I'm not used to making such comments as this when I see such flaws in people but I detest proud individuals and have no iota of respect for them.

Yeah, by saying you appear unintelligent, I'm talking what's obvious without intending any pune. Take for example your contradictory assertion that the Antichrist was the ones John referred to in 1John 2:19, and then join it to another assertion of yours that the collapse of Rome paved way for the emergence of the antichrist. Since you do not know how to separate the system of the antichrist from the person of the antichrist, you're automatically saying that the antichrist appeared even in the days of John, and again appeared after the fall of Rome. Lol. That's just one out of many. Go back and read yourself, reorganize your thoughts, become humble and be open minded. I'm doing the same. Stop being childish. Arguing and boasting at the same time is the Hallmark of childishness. Even if you know more than anyone, present yourself maturely, leave the commendation to your listeners. If you don't know this by now, I guess I'm chatting with a kid.

I've read only the first paragraphs of your post. I don't know what you said in the other parts. No time to read everything right now. I'll create the time later on. I'll respond to you comprehensively in one single post. But for now, understand my English thus:

There's an antichrist system headed by a man. There's a system and there's a man. The system is already in the world but the man is still future. He'll emerge out of the system to rule the world. He's the man of sin. His name is given in numerals. The Bible says 'Calculate the number of his name.' The number is 666. He's one man. Not a system. A devil incarnate. Satan's christ. In one single post, I'll be back to prove this position beyond reasonable doubt.

FxMasterz:


The first way to know an heretic is by his pride and bloated ego. You don't know me, yet you boast yourself to be someone not in the level of an individual you know nothing about. Is that not plain arrogance? Very demonically induced pride.

I have pointed out your errors. Honestly, if not due to the volume of tasks on my table which make me read hastily and post hastily, I would have matched several points with scriptures upon scriptures to expose your foolishness. Just give me time, I'll come for you once I'm free.

DID I SAY THAT THE ANTICHRIST IS A SYSTEM HEADED BY A MAN? QUOTE WHERE I SAID THAT!

My position is that there's a system. An antichrist system. Infact, the entire unbelieving world is an antichrist system . Anything anti-God is antichrist. But then, there's a system headed by The Antichrist. The system is different from the antichrist. The system is currently at work right now in the world. In its appointment time, the antichrist would be revealed. He heads the system.

There are so many flaws in your argument. My usual way of countering unbalanced information here on Nairaland is to quote you and counter, or produce screenshots of relevant sections of your quotes and counter them one after the other.

Frankly speaking, your posts and arguments appear unintelligent. I'm not used to making such comments as this when I see such flaws in people but I detest proud individuals and have no iota of respect for them.

Yeah, by saying you appear unintelligent, I'm talking what's obvious without intending any pune. Take for example your contradictory assertion that the Antichrist was the ones John referred to in 1John 2:19, and then join it to another assertion of yours that the collapse of Rome paved way for the emergence of the antichrist. Since you do not know how to separate the system of the antichrist from the person of the antichrist, you're automatically saying that the antichrist appeared even in the days of John, and again appeared after the fall of Rome. Lol. That's just one out of many. Go back and read yourself, reorganize your thoughts, become humble and be open minded. I'm doing the same. Stop being childish. Arguing and boasting at the same time is the Hallmark of childishness. Even if you know more than anyone, present yourself maturely, leave the commendation to your listeners. If you don't know this by now, I guess I'm chatting with a kid.

I've read only the first paragraphs of your post. I don't know what you said in the other parts. No time to read everything right now. I'll create the time later on. I'll respond to you comprehensively in one single post. But for now, understand my English thus:

THERE'S AN ANTICHRIST SYSTEM HEADED BY a MAN. There's a system and there's a man. The system is already in the world but the man is still future. He'll emerge out of the system to rule the world. He's the man of sin. His name is given in numerals. The Bible says 'Calculate the number of his name.' The number is 666. He's one man. Not a system. A devil incarnate. Satan's christ. In one single post, I'll be back to prove this position beyond reasonable doubt.

always forming I have no time, who are you deceiving,.. the time you used to type all these you would have used it to address my points with facts if you have any in your head. those who read our debat can clearly see who is unintelligent.
you cannot address my assertions point by point yet this is what I do with both historical proof and scriptural proof.

all what you have said here is nothing but empty words with no substance nor evidence backed by history or scriptural fact just emptiness of words and rants.


look at a man who does not even understand APOSTASY.

I dont need to know you in person but I have weighed you through your reply and have seen that your not an intelligent person neither do you have a comprehensive knowledge about what your talking about and thats why I said you are not on my level.


I gave you proof both scriptural and historical. I have asked you to do same even asked you questions of which you are dodging. I have seen that your just a waste of my time I taught I was arguing with an intelligent person what a mistake.
let me give you a proper definition of pride and ego: it is the purposeful neglect and rejection of the truth right in front of your face and refusing to accept correction and lesson while pretending to still know it all even without presenting any evidence. this is the typical case with you


what a funny person you asked me a qeustion and even anwered your self therefor prooving your own flaws by yourself and you have the guts to call me confused when you are the definition of confused. just take a look at the bolded words in your post above. you said I should show you where you said the antichrist is a system headed by a man yet at the base of you post you still admitted it is a system headed by a man. lol confused man.


for your info every thing you have typed up there is empty with no proof no fact empty words of nothingness. pls try and address my posts point by point the way I am doing it

EMILO2STAY:
those who read our debat can clearly see who is unintelligent.
you cannot address my assertions point by point yet this is what I do with both historical proof and scriptural proof.

all what you have said here is nothing but empty words with no substance nor evidence backed by history or scriptural fact just emptiness of words and rants.


look at a man who does not even understand APOSTASY.

I dont need to know you in person but I have weighed you through your reply and have seen that your not an intelligent person neither do you have a comprehensive knowledge about what your talking about and thats why I said you are not on my level.


I gave you proof both scriptural and historical. I have asked you to do same even asked you questions of which you are dodging. I have seen that your just a waste of my time I taught I was arguing with an intelligent person what a mistake.
let me give you a proper definition of pride and ego: it is the purposeful neglect and rejection of the truth right in front of your face and refusing to accept correction and lesson while pretending to still know it all even without present any evidence. this is the typical case with you


what a funny person you asked me a qeustion and even anwered your self therefor prooving your own flaws by yourself and you have the guts to call me confused when you are the definition of confused. just take a look at the bolded words in your post above. you said I should show you where you said the antichrist is a system headed by a man yet at the base of you post you still admitted it is a system headed by a man. lol confused man.


for your info every thing you have typed up there is empty with no proof no fact empty words of nothingness. pls try and address my posts point by point the way I am doing it

Tonight, I'll create time for you okay.

I don't need all the stories you're telling. I'll take you from scripture to scripture to debunk your lies.

Of course, those reading us know who's unintelligent and ignorantly boastful. Even telling disjointed stories that interest no one neither are they in any way connected to the subject matter.

Did I say I have typed or resounded anything yet? Did you not read that I don't even read your posts? Why are you not seeing that I told you clearly that I'm currently busy? This is the sane way you read your bible to come up with those jargons you're so proud about. Reading without comprehending. I have not posted anything yet. And I already told you that clearly.

Even at this moment, I only read the first and last paragraph of your post. No time right now. So, wait till night.

The important things I'll iron out with you tonight are:

1. Is the antichrist a person or a system?

2. Has he already come or is he in the future?

Those are the only issues I have with you. Any other thing you're saying is irrelevant.

FxMasterz:


Tonight, I'll create time for you okay.

I don't need all the stories you're telling. I'll take you from scripture to scripture to debunk your lies.

Of course, those reading us know who's unintelligent and ignorantly boastful. Even telling disjointed stories that interest no one neither are they in any way connected to the subject matter.

The important things I'll iron out with you tonight are:

1. Is the antichrist a person or a system?

2. Has he already come or is he in the future?

Those are the only issues I have with you. Any other thing you're saying is irrelevant.

there is nothing left for you to present anymore. if you doubt me. bring it on tonight I am waiting. you had your chance you didnt present nothing. wetin you wan come form again.. the two topics you presented have already been addressed by me with historical and biblical proofs but if you want your second round of disgrace then come back tonight

EMILO2STAY:
there is nothing left for you to present anymore. if you doubt me. bring it on tonight I am waiting. you had your chance you didnt present nothing. wetin you wan come form again.. the two topics you presented have already been addressed by me with historical and biblical proofs but if you want your second round of disgrace then come back tonight

I don't think I'm talking with a sound believer. Also, you must be very immature to think that a debate is a fight. What disgrace are you talking about? I am a gentleman. I do not mean to disgrace you but to present what you can learn from me while I also learn from you. You're just too awkward. I have tried to subtly call you to order to no avail. I.engage in healthy debates. Not unnecessary banters. If I learn any new thing from you, I'll commend you and appreciate you. That's me, that's a mature way to debate. And if I dismantle your ignorance, I'll still address you honorably. Not your kiddish puffed up arrogance debating in hopes of disgracing another. You're so unrefined.

EMILO2STAY:
there is nothing left for you to present anymore. if you doubt me. bring it on tonight I am waiting. you had your chance you didnt present nothing. wetin you wan come form again.. the two topics you presented have already been addressed by me with historical and biblical proofs but if you want your second round of disgrace then come back tonight

There is one thing about me. I am aware that many errors were passed down to us from Roman Catholicism. Infact many practices of protestantism are still not biblical As a result, I do not go by public opinion on Christian doctrines. I study the word for myself to know what the Bible says. If your doctrine cannot stand the test of scripture, then I discard it. Unfortunately, all your postions are anti-scripture. You are looking at history to justify anti-scriptural positions. The Bible has the final say in our matters. Not history or some supposed documents found online.

Now, let's find out from the Word of God whether the Antichrist is a system or a person. Whether he has already come or he is still future. And whether the Temple in question is a physical or spiritual temple.

Let's look into some relevant scriptures:
1. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4:

"3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

First, you must realize that the emergence of the antichrist is a 'Last Days' event. The events of the end of time. That is why John said "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming...," 1John 2:18. It is a last days event. Did John say that the very antichrist has already come? No! Let's examine what he said further: "so now many antichrists have come." From John's words, we have two entities: 1. The antichrist whom we heard is coming 2. Many antichrists that have now come. Take note of the two words used "antichrist" - singular that is coming. "antichrists" - plural that have now come. By the sighting of the "antichrists" John thought that the 'antichrist' would soon appear. So, he said, "we are in the last days." Almost 2,000yrs have passed since John wrote those words. You and I know that John and his contemporaries were not in the last days as they thought. Paul clarified it saying in the scripture first quoted above, "Don't be alarmed by anyone's preaching. That man would not come until there is a falling away." Interestingly, Paul was a contemporary of John. While John thought that the antichrist would soon be revealed, Paul cleared the air that he is still future even though he was aware that antichrists were already in the world.

John said "The antichrist is coming", Paul said "THE MAN" of lawlessness shall be revealed. We have no reference here to "The Men" of sin whom you call the Popes. Instead, we have THE MAN of sin. In the Book of Revelation, John said in 13:18 "This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of A Man, and his number is 666. It is not the number of some men but of A Man. He didn't say "Their number" but "his" number. You need to explain beyond reasonable doubt why A Man and His Number would become a system or a group of men.

Then comes Revelation 19:20
"Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence(in the presence of the beast), by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone”

You can see clearly in the above scripture that the beast is a person. He was captured, and "with him" the false prophet. The scriptures says "These two" (the beast and the false prophet} were thrown alive into the lake of fire. The beast (1 man), plus the false prophet (1 man), = 2 people cast into the lake of fire. Tell me how the addition of the beast to the false prophet = 2 men if the beast is the Popes. The Popes actually have many images but the antichrist has only one image. His own very image. This the Popes don't have.

For smoother interaction, let's first discuss this part of him being one man. Then other parts later.

FxMasterz:
.

"

on the contrary you go by public opinion and you dont know the bible. the doctrine you believe is called futurism and it follows the pretribulation rapture doctrine which is a false doctrine that arose at the wake of the reformation.see the proof below that you are ignoring I can also give you more..

In the late Middle Ages and the Protestant Reformation, some commentators sought
to identify the Antichrist with the Pope, so that figures from the Book of Revelation might not only be interpreted as representing figures in the past
(such as the Emperor Nero) or in the future (in the Last Days), but also in the present. Ribera in 1585 began writing a 500-page commentary on the Book of Revelation, titled
In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarii, proposing that the first chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest referred to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy . Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God

Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem

Abolish the Christian religion

Deny Jesus Christ

Destroy Rome

Be received by the Jews

Pretend to be God

Kill the two witnesses of God

Conquer the world.

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Ribera
the above shows you are following public opinion and your assertions are not your own



you have shown great ignorance by saying history is anti scripture I wonder if you are twleve years old. the bible itself is a book of history and you cant seperate the two.
the prophecies of daniel cannot be understood without going back in time through history to understand and unravel it.

in daniel 7, daniel chronicled a list of nations to come one after the other starting from babylon so in other to understand that prophecy a good bible student would go back in time and investigate events leading up to present time. yiur actually showing dumbness I cant beleive this!!..

you are still grasping at straws by quoting 2 thessalonians2 and 1 john 2:18 which I have adressed. now let me say it again in case you didnt get.

paul and john speaking with the same spirirt are refering to the same thing and same event and the proof lies in the fact that they are both speaking of an antichrist and a falling away. 2 thessalonians 2: 3 let no man decieve you you for that day will not come except a falling away (apostasia) comes first and that man of sin be revealed.

from the above verse we can see that it is the apostasia that revealed the antichrist. now lets go to john;

They went out from us, (apostasia)but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were not all of us.
-- 1 John 2:19



did you notice the word manifest? in other words john is saying that an apostatsia is to happen for the antichrist to manisfest that is to show that they are not of the true church these goes to show these men are speaking of the same thing and same entity. there are no two antichrist any good bible student knows that. the plural word in johns writing is referring to the same entity and we know this by reading 18-19 of the verse to understand what he is talking about because john used the word "they" which is still plural to refer to the same entity. so this is talking of a system and an organization.

in case you dont know the last days started since the time of christ. even 1 john 2;18 said we are in the last days because the antichrist has come you dont know your bible at all but let me continue teaching you for free.


your problem is understanding and that comes from the fact that you dont study and comprehend the bible. yes paul said the man of sin but is paul referring to just one single powerful super bad guy in the future? the answer is no and the proof lies in daniel 7; 8 , "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.
-- Daniel 7:8

from the above scripture we see here that daniel says the little horn has the eyes and mouth of a man but is daniel pointing to just one man in the future? this is when a good bible student willl do their investigation. now let me school you proper. the first image of a lion was babylon and after babylon came greece amd after greece came rome. see scripture below

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
-- Daniel 7:23

now we can only know the fourth kingdom if we go back to history to find out. now history has it that rome took over from greece who took over from medo persia who took over from babylon. so history is in perfect agreement with the bible that rome is the fourth kingdom.

now see what the bible said again below

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
-- Daniel 7:24


it is now clear from the above scripture that this little horn that arose after these ten kings is a political power with a kingdom meaning a system by with an office by which it acts or assumes power. from this we know that this man who persecutes the saints and blasphems God is a king/ kingdom just as the bible says. in otherwords the bible implies the antichrist is working through system / an office or a postion in a system and that is where the power lies. understanding is key. the bible also says this same horn persecuted the saints for 3.5 prophetic years which is 1260 literal years and no man lives that long but let me stop there.

so we can now see that ths little horn is a political power by which men assume a top position to assume power. in that case the antichrist is not just a single man that is to come at the end of time but but an entity by which men assumes a position to act as antichrist simple.


the beast that was capture along with the false prophet is not a singular person but a system/political entity . you are greatly mistaken when you say the beast is a man. it show your level of ignorance. the biblical interpretation of a beast in prophecy is a political nation. just as we see it in daniel 7. the beast is talking of a nation and in this case it is talking of the metamorphosed beast which is still same as the little horn kingdom antichrist system. notice the beast embodies all the charateristics of the former beasts before it in daniel 7 all the way to babylon. which is why the bible calls it mystery babylon notice the angel said in revelation 17:15 that the waters which you saw the beast arose from are peoples multupitudes and tongues. this indicates that these are symbolical representaion and not literal. so they have an underlying meaning. oga you dey goof ohh.


and if the beast is a symbolical representation of a political kingdom then his image will also be a political kingdom and not a literal image as you think so you are wrong.

so far with both scripture amd historical proof we can see that the beast, the little horn with eyes and mouth of a man is not is not just talking of one singular super bad guy to come in the future but an entity and system or political kingdom which is already present with the man already assumed his position of antichrist and succeded by another upon death in office these men take upon them the title of the vicar of thesupon assumption of office which is vicar if the son of God and the numerical equivalent of the tittle is = Vicarius=112 · Filii=53 · Dei=501 =666, other words the antichrist is already here.

FxMasterz:


I don't think I'm talking with a sound believer. Also, you must be very immature to think that a debate is a fight. What disgrace are you talking about? I am a gentleman. I do not mean to disgrace you but to present what you can learn from me while I also learn from you. You're just too awkward. I have tried to subtly call you to order to no avail. I.engage in healthy debates. Not unnecessary banters. If I learn any new thing from you, I'll commend you and appreciate you. That's me, that's a mature way to debate. And if I dismantle your ignorance, I'll still address you honorably. Not your kiddish puffed up arrogance debating in hopes of disgracing another. You're so unrefined.

pls stop forming what ever you think yiur are fpr me I have seen you form what ever you are. na you come be the sound believer falsely accusing me of saying christ came in 1914. pls just shut your trap mr gentle man indeed.


I talk about disgrace because you pretend not to see your own shortcomings and mistakes you make. did you not call apostasia the love of many waxing cold?
you pretend not to see evidence and evade questions.

I have been the one actaully debating in a healthy manner with point to point explanations with evidence. but you where busy ignoring and falsely acussing me of things I never said.

EMILO2STAY:


pls stop forming what ever you think yiur are fpr me I have seen you form what ever you are. na you come be the sound believer falsely accusing me of saying christ came in 1914. pls just shut your trap mr gentle man indeed.


I talk about disgrace because you pretend not to see your own shortcomings and mistakes you make. did you not call apostasia the love of many waxing cold?
you pretend not to see evidence and evade questions.

I have been the one actaully debating in a healthy manner with point to point explanations with evidence. but you where busy ignoring and falsely acussing me of things I never said.

Quote where I said you said that Christ came in 1914. You have reading comprehension Issues.

I first asked if you're a JW. The JW believe Christ came in 1914. I was only using that to know where you were coming from.

You're very unrefined. Debating in a healthy manner? Lol. From the start you put yourself in a position of a fighter. Always looking for fights. Rolling out insults without being provoked. Proud and arrogant. Why are you like that?

FxMasterz:


Lol

I have not been readings.your posts, just gleaming through. I'm very busy at the moment. My responses may not be comprehensive, and may not address your points headlong but I have done my best to let you know that there's a system and there's a man. While you think that the system is the anti, I'm making you know that there's a man in the system. A devil-incarnate. Satan's last card. I'll find time today to school you.

The Roman Catholic church started in Rome. It wasn't even part of the antichrists John was talking about. I've not been fully reading your posts but today I'll try to read and respond. I'm in one of my very busy days, additional I got discouraged reading your texts when you were writing in all smalls letters, with no order.

What do you think you're saying that I should learn from? That the Antichrist has already come? Lol. THE SAME WAY YOU said THE JESUS CAME IN 1914 - or are you not a JW? If you're not a JW, I'm surprised where you got all those craps from.

look at the base of your post at the bolded. are you mentally unstable or what? you see why I said you pretend and live in denial too much abeg carry your wahala dey go. I never knew I was dealing with a mentally unstable person.

EMILO2STAY:
on the contrary you go by public opinion and you dont know the bible. the doctrine you believe is called futurism and it follows the pretribulation rapture doctrine which is a false doctrine that arose at the wake of the reformation.see the proof below that you are ignoring I can also give you more..

In the late Middle Ages and the Protestant Reformation, some commentators sought
to identify the Antichrist with the Pope, so that figures from the Book of Revelation might not only be interpreted as representing figures in the past
(such as the Emperor Nero) or in the future (in the Last Days), but also in the present. Ribera in 1585 began writing a 500-page commentary on the Book of Revelation, titled
In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarii, proposing that the first chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest referred to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy . Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God

Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem

Abolish the Christian religion

Deny Jesus Christ

Destroy Rome

Be received by the Jews

Pretend to be God

Kill the two witnesses of God

Conquer the world.

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Ribera
the above shows you are following public opinion and your assertions are not your own



you have shown great ignorance by saying history is anti scripture I wonder if you are twleve years old. the bible itself is a book of history and you cant seperate the two.
the prophecies of daniel cannot be understood without going back in time through history to understand and unravel it.

in daniel 7, daniel chronicled a list of nations to come one after the other starting from babylon so in other to understand that prophecy a good bible student would go back in time and investigate events leading up to present time. yiur actually showing dumbness I cant beleive this!!..

you are still grasping at straws by quoting 2 thessalonians2 and 1 john 2:18 which I have adressed. now let me say it again in case you didnt get.

paul and john speaking with the same spirirt are refering to the same thing and same event and the proof lies in the fact that they are both speaking of an antichrist and a falling away. 2 thessalonians 2: 3 let no man decieve you you for that day will not come except a falling away (apostasia) comes first and that man of sin be revealed.

from the above verse we can see that it is the apostasia that revealed the antichrist. now lets go to john;

They went out from us, (apostasia)but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were not all of us.
-- 1 John 2:19



did you notice the word manifest? in other words john is saying that an apostatsia is to happen for the antichrist to manisfest that is to show that they are not of the true church these goes to show these men are speaking of the same thing and same entity. there are no two antichrist any good bible student knows that. the plural word in johns writing is referring to the same entity and we know this by reading 18-19 of the verse to understand what he is talking about because john used the word "they" which is still plural to refer to the same entity. so this is talking of a system and an organization.

in case you dont know the last days started since the time of christ. even 1 john 2;18 said we are in the last days because the antichrist has come you dont know your bible at all but let me continue teaching you for free.


your problem is understanding and that comes from the fact that you dont study and comprehend the bible. yes paul said the man of sin but is paul referring to just one single powerful super bad guy in the future? the answer is no and the proof lies in daniel 7; 8 , "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.
-- Daniel 7:8

from the above scripture we see here that daniel says the little horn has the eyes and mouth of a man but is daniel pointing to just one man in the future? this is when a good bible student willl do their investigation. now let me school you proper. the first image of a lion was babylon and after babylon came greece amd after greece came rome. see scripture below

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
-- Daniel 7:23

now we can only know the fourth kingdom if we go back to history to find out. now history has it that rome took over from greece who took over from medo persia who took over from babylon. so history is in perfect agreement with the bible that rome is the fourth kingdom.

now see what the bible said again below

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
-- Daniel 7:24


it is now clear from the above scripture that this little horn that arose after these ten kings is a political power with a kingdom meaning a system by with an office by which it acts or assumes power. from this we know that this man who persecutes the saints and blasphems God is a king/ kingdom just as the bible says. in otherwords the bible implies the antichrist is working through system / an office or a postion in a system and that is where the power lies. understanding is key. the bible also says this same horn persecuted the saints for 3.5 prophetic years which is 1260 literal years and no man lives that long but let me stop there.

so we can now see that ths little horn is a political power by which men assume a top position to assume power. in that case the antichrist is not just a single man that is to come at the end of time but but an entity by which men assumes a position to act as antichrist simple.


the beast that was capture along with the false prophet is not a singular person but a system/political entity . you are greatly mistaken when you say the beast is a man. it show your level of ignorance. the biblical interpretation of a beast in prophecy is a political nation. just as we see it in daniel 7. the beast is talking of a nation and in this case it is talking of the metamorphosed beast which is still same as the little horn kingdom antichrist system. notice the beast embodies all the charateristics of the former beasts before it in daniel 7 all the way to babylon. which is why the bible calls it mystery babylon notice the angel said in revelation 17:15 that the waters which you saw the beast arose from are peoples multupitudes and tongues. this indicates that these are symbolical representaion and not literal. so they have an underlying meaning. oga you dey goof ohh.


and if the beast is a symbolical representation of a political kingdom then his image will also be a political kingdom and not a literal image as you think so you are wrong.

so far with both scripture amd historical proof we can see that the beast, the little horn with eyes and mouth of a man is not is not just talking of one singular super bad guy to come in the future but an entity and system or political kingdom which is already present with the man already assumed his position of antichrist and succeded by another upon death in office these men take upon them the title of the vicar of thesupon assumption of office which is vicar if the son of God and the numerical equivalent of the tittle is = Vicarius=112 · Filii=53 · Dei=501 =666, other words the antichrist is already here

My friend, you are just ranting and seeking a fight but you won't get one.

I didn't insert my own words! Everything I posted earlier was pure scripture. Take those scriptures and counter me one after the other. Tell me that those scriptures didn't say what I said they said. That's how to debate. Quote the public opinion I inserted into that post if you can dare find one. Prove that my interpretation of those scriptures are wrong, and give your own interpretation in its place in a very organized manner. I wouldn't listen to stories. All those stories you are telling hold no water.

For your information, it is not only the history and title of the papacy that have been used as basis for saying the antichrist has come. I read a similar conspiracy theory here on Nairaland not long ago where Islam was propounded as the antichrist. They accurately calculated the number of Mohammed's name to give 666. They historically earmarked the 10 nations and the little horn. The compiled a list of persecutions from Islam and even proved the blasphemies of Islam while dissecting the Kaaba, and proved that Islam has fulfilled the prophecy of the antichrist. They spewed the same nonsense you are spewing now, bragging on historical facts that explicitly contradicted the Bible. Did I say that History is anti-scripture? You don't read to comprehend? Would you quote where I said that? I said the historical past you have been relaying is anti-scripture because they didn't tally with Bible prophecy. You are just forcing your own narration into the scriptures blindly.

Did I tell you that I read a book in the year 1997 where the Computer was said to be the antichrist? They calculated the number too, and it was 666. By taking the letters A - Z, with A assigned the number 6 and B, 12, C 18 in an arithmetic progression, COMPUTER has its numbers added together to make 666. See attached screenshot. On this link here too, someone argued that it is E-trade Mark and even went ahead to compute its number also as 666: https://www.nairaland.com/4356211/mark-beast-666-computer-technology. Vicarius Filii Dei is Latin, and the Apostle John was referring to a Greek name because as it is, John and his audience knew no Latin. He went ahead to tell his Greek and Hebrew readers "Let everyone that reads understand the number of 'HIS name' for it is ' A MAN's number'." How will John tell Greek and Hebrew readers to understand a Latin name and assign numbers to it? Everyone is just having his own story to tell but when they're brought under scriptural scrutiny, just like your stories, they fall flat. Some have even used the names of Nero and Caligula and translated them to 666. Even the title "Augustus.'

A distinguishing feature of the antichrist is described in Revelation 17:8 :

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

The papacy had being, ceased to be, came out of the abyss and is going to its destruction, isn't it? Do you even notice that John used a future tense "and yet will come out of the abyss" even though he had previously written that antichrist (plural) are already among us. John showed clearly that the antichrists (plural) are different from the antichrist (singular). While the antichrist[b]s[/b] are already among us, the antichrist is still future. He has been, has ceased to be, and would be again and go into destruction. The papacy did not not fulfil any dot of this feature.

The beast that was captured along with the antichrist is an entity, yet the scripture says, the beast along with the false prophets made the two people that were cast into the lake of fire: Revelation 19:20.

CSB
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

NIV
"But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with it the false prophet, who had performed the signs in its presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur."

3.5 Prophetic years is 3.5 literal years. Where did you get your 1260 years from?

I am more than 25yrs in the pastoral ministry. I am not a baby Christian. Neither am I new to all these things you are saying up there. all I want from you is solid scriptural exposition. Honestly, yourb posts so far are not scripturally balanced. Please organize your post when replying. Disorganized writing can be so boring to read.

EMILO2STAY:
look at the base of your post at the bolded. are you mentally unstable or what? you see why I said you pretend and live in denial too much abeg carry your wahala dey go. I never knew I was dealing with a mentally unstable person.

Did you see the rejoinder that says "or are you not a JW?" Meaning you JWs say Jesus came in 1914. That statement therefore did not refer to you as a person but to JW as a group. Then I went further to say "if you are not a JW, I am surprised where you got all those craps from." After you said you are not a JW, a sensible person would no longer hold that word as referring to you. the statement came with a condition. You left the condition and held on to the statement. I might stop interacting with you because I don't think I'm dealing with someone worthy of my time.

Brenbentondiaz:


The Pope looks more like that false prophet though, but I can't be too sure. He's definitely a false prophet, but I'm not sure if he's THE false prophet.

The false prophet will be a Jew to qualify to be the Messiah. He must certainly come from the lineage of David.

malcom1X:


The image is the mosque right there right now.
The abomination that maketh desolate

No, its not the mosque. According to our Lord Jesus, as soon as the abomination is set up, the world wide persecution of the Jews will begin. And the image will be able to speak. And every nation on earth will be forced to worship it.

FxMasterz:


Did you see the rejoinder that says "or are you not a JW?" Meaning you JWs say Jesus came in 1914. That statement therefore did not refer to you as a person but to JW as a group. Then I went further to say "if you are not a JW, I am surprised where you got all those craps from." After you said you are not a JW, a sensible person would no longer hold that word as referring to you. the statement came with a condition. You left the condition and held on to the statement. I might stop interacting with you because I don't think I'm dealing with someone worthy of my time.

whats the difference? there was actually no reason at all to call me that, besides you said I should show you where you made such statement and the fact is you indeed made such statemnet if this where in a court of law you think your rejoinder prove anything?..' you actially really have no shame

EMILO2STAY:
whats the difference? there was actually no reason at all to call me that, besides you said I should show you where you made such statement and the fact is you indeed made such statemnet if this where in a court of law you think your rejoinder prove anything?..' you actially really have no shame

Even if it was a court case, I never inferred that you made a direct statement. Courts would look at context which you ignored. A certain JW was supporting your posts and mentioning me. That made me think you're brothers.

FxMasterz:

25 years in pastoral ministry and you still dont know biblical truth. there is nothing in your post I have not countered as a matter of fact you have not countered mine instead your beating about the bush. pauls anm of sin is same as as the little horn of daniel 7. beciase they both blasphem and usurped the position of God

daniel 7 gives an insight into what the beast is and that is a kingdom with a man ruling if you agree this kingdom / system is already inexistence then you also know that the man ruling there is the eyes and mouth of that little horn the same as the man of sin this system is refered to as the beast in bible prophecy because it took over from the fourth beast amd used its political power. the beast is not a person per say how many times do i have to prove that with scripture?

this beast described by John in revelation is nothing but the office of the papacy which is still same as mystry babylon. this babylonian system as at the time of johns revelation was and is not but is to come. meaning the babylonian system was inexisted before johns times during of there political power and as at the time of the revelation is not in existence becuase babylon is no more but is to come in the near future through the papacy who have assimilated the babylonian culture through rome because the priests of babylon ran to rome at the fall if babylon and they ran to a place called pagamos in rome which the bible called the sit of satan. rome incooperated this practices into there religious system and that is how the vatican got it. now do you understand why it is called mystery babylon?

notice the beast embodies the features of other beast before it read it again. this simply means it incooperates the pagan practicies of the kingdsoms before him all the way up to babylon meaning its pagan practice goes back to babylon which is why it is called mystry babylon. same as the harlot. you should know how to interpret biblical symbolism but i see that your 25 years in the ministry is in futility because you do not recognize that your church is part of the babylonian system the bibile says come out of her my people which is still referring to the same system not a person. your ego as a pastor is the reason why you are ignoring the things I write and counter with empty words that prove nothing.

you keep proving to be ignorant of the scripture you have been preaching for 25 years daniels seventy weeks gives us an insight of prophetic times. the 70weeks where not literal but symbolic for each day for a year totaling 490years see ezekiel 4:6.And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year

the same principle is to be applied in daniel 7 to fully understand it. using this principle in daniel 7 we come to 1260 years persecutions by the little horn power when it arose out of the fourth beast. now going back to history rome is the fourth kingdom and this fourth kingdom fell in the year476 ad and the little horn power that took over this fourth kingdom is the papacy in 538ad. this was the year pope vigilus took power from the ceasers and started exercising his political authory by plucking off three kingdoms( heruli, osthrogoths and vandals) because they would not recorgnise the authority of the pope, the popes exercised this authority untill 1798 when napoleon went into the vatican and captured the pope hence the fatal wound the beast recieved but this wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini signed the vatican concordant. make I still dey teach you in case you think its talking about a person. do your maths 1798- 538=1260 years.


every thing you said about islam beeing the antichrist is jargon. no entity fits the describtion of the antichrist like the papacy and vatican unless you have not done your home work. islam was created by the vatican in 600 Ad by the papacy through mohammeds wife and uncle both whom are roman catholics and the aim was capture jerusalem and kill north african christians who does not recognise the pope. let me stop here you know nothing the LovePeddler of babylon is said to have many daughters and islam is her first that is if you understamd the symbolism.

FxMasterz:


Even if it was a court case, I never inferred that you made a direct statement. Courts would look at context which you ignored. A certain JW was supporting your posts and mentioning me. That made me think you're brothers.

oga leave matter you directly put words in my mouth when my monica never made such statement . the fact is it is what you said and i have shown it to you. so leave matter

EMILO2STAY:
25 years in pastoral ministry and you still dont know biblical truth. there is nothing in your post I have not countered as a matter of fact you have not countered mine instead your beating about the bush. pauls anm of sin is same as as the little horn of daniel 7. beciase they both blasphem and usurped the position of God

daniel 7 gives an insight into what the beast is and that is a kingdom with a man ruling if you agree this kingdom / system is already inexistence then you also know that the man ruling there is the eyes and mouth of that little horn the same as the man of sin this system is refered to as the beast in bible prophecy because it took over from the fourth beast amd used its political power. the beast is not a person per say how many times do i have to prove that with scripture?

this beast described by John in revelation is nothing but the office of the papacy which is still same as mystry babylon. this babylonian system as at the time of johns revelation was and is not but is to come. meaning the babylonian system was inexisted before johns times during of there political power and as at the time of the revelation is not in existence becuase babylon is no more but is to come in the near future through the papacy who have assimilated the babylonian culture through rome because the priests of babylon ran to rome at the fall if babylon and they ran to a place called pagamos in rome which the bible called the sit of satan. rome incooperated this practices into there religious system and that is how the vatican got it. now do you understand why it is called mystery babylon?

notice the beast embodies the features of other beast before it read it again. this simply means it incooperates the pagan practicies of the kingdsoms before him all the way up to babylon meaning its pagan practice goes back to babylon which is why it is called mystry babylon. same as the harlot. you should know how to interpret biblical symbolism but i see that your 25 years in the ministry is in futility because you do not recognize that your church is part of the babylonian system the bibile says come out of her my people which is still referring to the same system not a person. your ego as a pastor is the reason why you are ignoring the things I write and counter with empty words that prove nothing.

you keep proving to be ignorant of the scripture you have been preaching for 25 years daniels seventy weeks gives us an insight of prophetic times. the 70weeks where not literal but symbolic for each day for a year totaling 490years see ezekiel 4:6.And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year

the same principle is to be applied in daniel 7 to fully understand it. using this principle in daniel 7 we come to 1260 years persecutions by the little horn power when it arose out of the fourth beast. now going back to history rome is the fourth kingdom and this fourth kingdom fell in the year476 ad and the little horn power that took over this fourth kingdom is the papacy in 538ad. this was the year pope vigilus took power from the ceasers and started exercising his political authory by plucking off three kingdoms( heruli, osthrogoths and vandals) because they would not recorgnise the authority of the pope, the popes exercised this authority untill 1798 when napoleon went into the vatican and captured the pope hence the fatal wound the beast recieved but this wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini signed the vatican concordant. make I still dey teach you in case you think its talking about a person. do your maths 1798- 538=1260 years.


every thing you said about islam beeing the antichrist is jargon. no entity fits the describtion of the antichrist like the papacy and vatican unless you have not done your home work. islam was created by the vatican in 600 Ad by the papacy through mohammeds wife and uncle both whom are roman catholics and the aim was capture jerusalem and kill north african christians who does not recognise the pope. let me stop here you know nothing the LovePeddler of babylon is said to have many daughters and islam is her first that is if you understamd the symbolism.

I never said Islam is the antichrist. I only gave an example of many conspiracy theories like your indicating our space.

I gave you some scripture. Tackle only those scriptures. Quote them and explain the following:

1. The Bible says two people were cast into the lake of fire. Why did the bible make the antichrist abd the beast 2 people?

2. Who is the beast which was and is not and shall come and go into perdition? How does it fit into the papacy?

3. What do the scriptures mean by the statement "It is a man's number" while referring to the number of the antichrist+ 666.

4. Simple English of John which said ", You've heard that THE ANTICHRIST IS coming (,one man is coming) but even now, MANY ANTICHRISTS (many men) are already among us. You might need to give this passage to an English Language specialist to analyze for you.

5. Why would John refer to a Latin name as 666 when he was addressing a Greek and Hebrew audience? I mean that the number 666 is referenced to a Greek name. Ancient Greeks associate names with numbers. The audience of John fully understood who he was referring to.

Let me see your response to the 5 questions above. Line by line as simplified for you up there. I have several over questions that challenge your position but I'll limit it to 5 for now.

EMILO2STAY:
oga leave matter you directly put words in my mouth when my monica never made such statement . the fact is it is what you said and i have shown it to you. so leave matter

I know you'll remain obstinate without minding the clarifications. I addressed it for the record and not purposely for you.

FxMasterz:


I know you'll remain obstinate without minding the clarifications. I addressed it for the record and not purposely for you.

you clearly made an assumption when there is no need or reason to, the fact is that you said it. why are you dragging unnecessarily.

EMILO2STAY:
you clearly made an assumption when there is no need or reason to, the fact is that you said it. why are you dragging unnecessarily.

It was not an assertion. It was a question of whether you're JW or not.

FxMasterz:


My friend, you are just ranting and seeking a fight but you won't get one.

I didn't insert my own words! Everything I posted earlier was pure scripture. Take those scriptures and counter me one after the other. Tell me that those scriptures didn't say what I said they said. That's how to debate. Quote the public opinion I inserted into that post if you can dare find one. Prove that my interpretation of those scriptures are wrong, and give your own interpretation in its place in a very organized manner. I wouldn't listen to stories. All those stories you are telling hold no water.

For your information, it is not only the history and title of the papacy that have been used as basis for saying the antichrist has come. I read a similar conspiracy theory here on Nairaland not long ago where Islam was propounded as the antichrist. They accurately calculated the number of Mohammed's name to give 666. They historically earmarked the 10 nations and the little horn. The compiled a list of persecutions from Islam and even proved the blasphemies of Islam while dissecting the Kaaba, and proved that Islam has fulfilled the prophecy of the antichrist. They spewed the same nonsense you are spewing now, bragging on historical facts that explicitly contradicted the Bible. Did I say that History is anti-scripture? You don't read to comprehend? Would you quote where I said that? I said the historical past you have been relaying is anti-scripture because they didn't tally with Bible prophecy. You are just forcing your own narration into the scriptures blindly.

Did I tell you that I read a book in the year 1997 where the Computer was said to be the antichrist? They calculated the number too, and it was 666. By taking the letters A - Z, with A assigned the number 6 and B, 12, C 18 in an arithmetic progression, COMPUTER has its numbers added together to make 666. See attached screenshot. On this link here too, someone argued that it is E-trade Mark and even went ahead to compute its number also as 666: https://www.nairaland.com/4356211/mark-beast-666-computer-technology. Vicarius Filii Dei is Latin, and the Apostle John was referring to a Greek name because as it is, John and his audience knew no Latin. He went ahead to tell his Greek and Hebrew readers "Let everyone that reads understand the number of 'HIS name' for it is ' A MAN's number'." How will John tell Greek and Hebrew readers to understand a Latin name and assign numbers to it? Everyone is just having his own story to tell but when they're brought under scriptural scrutiny, just like your stories, they fall flat. Some have even used the names of Nero and Caligula and translated them to 666. Even the title "Augustus.'

A distinguishing feature of the antichrist is described in Revelation 17:8 :

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

The papacy had being, ceased to be, came out of the abyss and is going to its destruction, isn't it? Do you even notice that John used a future tense "and yet will come out of the abyss" even though he had previously written that antichrist (plural) are already among us. John showed clearly that the antichrists (plural) are different from the antichrist (singular). While the antichrist[b]s[/b] are already among us, the antichrist is still future. He has been, has ceased to be, and would be again and go into destruction. The papacy did not not fulfil any dot of this feature.

The beast that was captured along with the antichrist is an entity, yet the scripture says, the beast along with the false prophets made the two people that were cast into the lake of fire: Revelation 19:20.

CSB
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

NIV
"But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with it the false prophet, who had performed the signs in its presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur."

3.5 Prophetic years is 3.5 literal years. Where did you get your 1260 years from?

I am more than 25yrs in the pastoral ministry. I am not a baby Christian. Neither am I new to all these things you are saying up there. all I want from you is solid scriptural exposition. Honestly, yourb posts so far are not scripturally balanced. Please organize your post when replying. Disorganized writing can be so boring to read.

Perhaps the correct form of wisdom has not been used in understanding this verse or these verses. It however is amusing an apparent interplay between numerology and the christian scripture.

Numerology, in its simplest terms, is the relationship between a number and its mystical nature on both an individual and worldly level. Numerology is also the study of the numerical value of the alphabet.

Numerological ideas have been around for centuries. Some of the earliest records of numerology appeared in ancient Egypt and Babylon along with China, Rome, Japan, and Greece. However, it was the Greek philosopher Pythagoras who became the father of numerology.

Calculate in what is written in Rev. 13:18 calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.1 —Revelation 13:18

You have 666 attached to the Talents of Gold received by Solomon (2 Chronicles 9:13; The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents)

Numerology and Christianity share a common ground in their recognition of the symbolic power of numbers. For instance, the number seven holds great significance in both systems. In Christianity, it represents completion and perfection, as the seventh day is when God rested after creating the universe. Numerology interprets the number seven as a symbol of inner wisdom and spiritual enlightenment. These overlapping interpretations suggest a potential for compatibility between the two systems.

Irenaeus believed that the number 666 was a cryptic reference to the Roman Emperor Nero. According to Irenaeus, the number 666 was derived from the Hebrew practice of using letters as numbers, a system known as gematria. In this system, each letter of the Hebrew alphabet has a corresponding numerical value, and by adding up the numerical values of the letters in a name or word, one could calculate its "number." Irenaeus argued that when the name "Nero Caesar" was translated into Hebrew and its letters were assigned their corresponding numerical values, the total came out to 666. Thus, Irenaeus concluded that the "number of the beast" was a veiled reference to Nero, a tyrannical and persecuting Roman Emperor who was infamous for his brutal treatment of Christians.

The combination of 6,6,6 need hardly be commented upon. Man, in conjunction with man, exalting himself in trinity is yet another proposed interpretation. Also, 666 is the number of years from the desecration of the temple by the Babylonians IN 596 BC, the first beast, and the desecration of the temple by the Romans, the second beast with all the authority over the Jews of the first beast, in 70 AD. John, in exile in a penal colony on the island of Patmos for sedition, was writing in code "which requires wisdom" to interpret, calling on the seven churches to rise up against Rome and restore Jerusalem and the Temple. To evade the attention of Roman prison warders reading his letter, he cries out "Babylon the great has fallen" and "i saw the new Jerusalam coming down from heaven", Babylon being code for Rome and 666, a human number being the clue.

Speculation about the meaning of the number 666, the number of the beast, has been intriguing but futile. Some individuals have assigned a numeric value to the letters of the alphabet and applied the values to names. Political figures, popes, and dictators have been subject to such a numeric system. It's important to remember that there are only so many numerals—only ten, in fact—and only so many letters in any given alphabet. Given enough time and creativity, almost any name can be connected or manipulated into some connection with 666.

Other possibilities abound. Some are more obscure, and unlikely, than others. Ezra 2:13 gives the number of descendants of Adonikam as 666. Because "Adonikam" means "the lord who rises up" or "lord of the enemy," a few interpreters suggest the beast who rises from the earth will bear the name Adonikam.

Only my two cents as you guys appear knowledgeable enough to make sense of this scripture yourself.

advocatejare:

Did Muhammad swallow the poison like Bishri did ? No


Was Muhammad the only person who ate the poison and didn’t die immediately? No. It was some, not all his companions that ate it who died (Sunan Abu Dawud 39:4495),

Did Muhammad get treated by cupping for the poison? Yes (Sunan Abu Dawud 39:4495)

Despite the fact that Muhammad had not swallowed the poisoned meat, was its effect felt by him immediately? Yes, its effect was felt on his uvula (Sahih Muslim 26:5430)

About 36 months after, when the effect of the poison had made him seriously sick so much that he couldn’t stand without being supported, he was alternating between consciousness and unconscious, he was having very high fever and he was pouring water on himself to cool his body, did he not tell his beloved child bride that he still felt the pain from the poisoned food in ate at Khaibar? Yes he did (Sahih al-Bukhari 4428, Sunan Abi Dawud 4512 )

When someone suggested that his sickness was due to pleurisy, did he not deny that and proclaim that his sickness was due to the poisoned food he ate at Khaibar? Yes he did (Ibn Saad, p. 294, Sunan Abi Dawud 4513)

We will surely go on and on about this but really of what importance is this? Does killing a prophet deprive him of being a prophet? I don't think so otherwise why did Jesus say:

[Mat 23:29-38 KJV]
(29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
(30) And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
(33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
(35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

In any case Allah protected and prevented Muhammad from dying at the time of the alleged poisoning even if Bishr died immediately or at most one year after. Alas he renained alive up on till Allah completed the revelation and perfected the religion of Islam
Quran 5:3 .......Today I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My favor upon you, and have approved Islam as a religion for you.........

Explore2xmore:


We will surely go on and on about this but really of what importance is this? Does killing a prophet deprive him of being a prophet? I don't think so otherwise why did Jesus say:

[Mat 23:29-38 KJV]
(29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
(30) And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
(33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
(35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

In any case Allah protected and prevented Muhammad from dying at the time of the alleged poisoning even if Bishr died immediately or at most one year after. Alas he renained alive up on till Allah completed the revelation and perfected the religion of Islam
Quran 5:3 .......Today I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My favor upon you, and have approved Islam as a religion for you.........

The bottom line is your Allah is a liar who claimed to have rescued jesus on the cross and replaced him by an innocent person to die his death whereas the same Allah could save Muhammad from poison, Muhammad died from the poison of a jewess which proved that he was fake and an imposter

Muhammad died without fulfilling his mission of compiling the Quran, his successors had to do that and burnt the original manuscripts


Muhammad didn’t make Islam perfect because immediately after his death his followers started fighting so intense that they left his body unburied for 3 days which was against the Muslims tradition of burying their dead on the same day or very early the following day


Islam wasn’t made perfect as Islam divided into Shia and Sunni because Muslims were fighting for who the leader will be


Muslims have been killing themselves since then. They don’t even need any external enemies, they are their own enemies. They went to attack Ali and Fatimah, Muhammad’s daughter and she had a miscarriage, Aisha led a civil war against fellow Muslims, apart from Abu Bakr that died natural death, other caliphs were killed by Muslims themselves and here you are lying that Allah perfect Islam, that’s the lie they tel you in your religion

FxMasterz:


I never said Islam is the antichrist. I only gave an example of many conspiracy theories like your indicating our space.

I gave you some scripture. Tackle only those scriptures. Quote them and explain the following:

1. The Bible says two people were cast into the lake of fire. Why did the bible make the antichrist abd the beast 2 people?

2. Who is the beast which was and is not and shall come and go into perdition? How does it fit into the papacy?

3. What do the scriptures mean by the statement "It is a man's number" while referring to the number of the antichrist+ 666.

4. Simple English of John which said ", You've heard that THE ANTICHRIST IS coming (,one man is coming) but even now, MANY ANTICHRISTS (many men) are already among us. You might need to give this passage to an English Language specialist to analyze for you.

5. Why would John refer to a Latin name as 666 when he was addressing a Greek and Hebrew audience? I mean that the number 666 is referenced to a Greek name. Ancient Greeks associate names with numbers. The audience of John fully understood who he was referring to.

Let me see your response to the 5 questions above. Line by line as simplified for you up there. I have several over questions that challenge your position but I'll limit it to 5 for now.

you said islam also fits those descriptions of the antichrist in the bible but it does not. lol every thing you listed there I have addressed in the post you quoted my guy it seems you have comprehension problem.

it seems you are now seeking clarification like you want to learn ok.


1. daniel 7 gives an insight into what the beast is and that is a kingdom with a
man ruling and sitted in top position. if you agree this kingdom / system is already in existence then you also know that the man ruling there is the eyes and mouth of that little horn the same as the man of sin. this system is refered to as the beast in bible
prophecy because it took over from the fourth beast and used its political
power. the beast is not a person per say but a political power how many times do i have to prove that with scripture?


2.this beast described by John in revelation is nothing but the office of the
papacy as proven by the bible and history, which is still same as mystery babylon. this babylonian system as at the time of johns revelation was "not" in existence but is to
" to come. meaning the babylonian system was in existed before johns times during time of of babylonian empire and as at the time of the revelation is not in existence becuase babylon is no more but is to come in the near future through the papacy who have assimilated the babylonian pagan culture through rome because the priests of
babylon ran to rome at the fall of babylon and they ran to a place called
pagamos in rome which the bible called the sit of satan. rome incooperated
this practices into there religious system and that is how the vatican got it.
now do you understand why it is called mystery babylon?
remember the son of perdition which paul spoke of? it is same thing as this beast who will also go into perdition. perdition means destined for destruction by the Lord.


3.the scripture means indeed that the numerical equivalent of his name is 666. now you need to understand that the word name does not necessarily imply literal name but what he stands for or acts, or claims to be ,.. in otherwords his title which he wears on his crown . take for example Exodus 34:14 "For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous..

4 it is you who think otherwise. john started by saying "as you have heard that antichrist is coming" he was referring to the same thing paul was saying in 2 thessalonians 2. and then went on to say that many antichrists have come already meaning there are many people who have corrupted the gospel as at his time. the catholic church foundation goes back to the time of the apostles with a man known as simon the sorcerer. these people are same people who are part of the fallen ,the apostasia that shall usher in the man of sin. so john is not saying somthing different at all he is still referring to the antichrist and its system because john still spoke of a falling away and a revealing of the apostate church when he said " that they might be manifest that they where not of us. this is the apostasia. when this apostate church is set up it will have a man as its head. every organization do that.


5. you sound like a child. is this the kind of person that stands in front of people to preach? christianity was spreading all over the world. john was not adressing a hebrew and greek audience, he was adressing every beliver in christ irreective of nationality.

paul himself took the gospel to rome. rome was the capitial of civilization then just as america is now. the gospel was spreading to rome faster than any place and so rome was not left out. the roman numerals equally serve as letters. you no go school? i(1) ,ii (2), iii(3), iv(4), v(5) and so on and so forth. in does days they understood that when the antichrist comes his name in any letter will have a numerical equivalent of 666 in this case it has to be the roman numerals because rome is the fourth kingdom and the papacy has been identified as the little horn.
why would one look at greek or hebrew language for 666 , is the antichrist said to arise from greece or jerusalem ? you dont know your bible.

FxMasterz:

you said islam also fits those descriptions of the antichrist in the bible but it does not. lol every thing you listed there I have addressed in the post you quoted my guy it seems you have comprehension problem.

it seems you are now seeking clarification like you want to learn ok.


1. daniel 7 gives an insight into what the beast is and that is a kingdom with a
man ruling and sitted in top position. if you agree this kingdom / system is already in existence then you also know that the man ruling there is the eyes and mouth of that little horn the same as the man of sin. this system is refered to as the beast in bible
prophecy because it took over from the fourth beast and used its political
power. the beast is not a person per say but a political power how many times do i have to prove that with scripture?


2.this beast described by John in revelation is nothing but the office of the
papacy as proven by the bible and history, which is still same as mystery babylon. this babylonian system as at the time of johns revelation was "not" in existence but is to
" to come. meaning the babylonian system was in existed before johns times during time of of babylonian empire and as at the time of the revelation is not in existence becuase babylon is no more but is to come in the near future through the papacy who have assimilated the babylonian pagan culture through rome because the priests of
babylon ran to rome at the fall of babylon and they ran to a place called
pagamos in rome which the bible called the sit of satan. rome incooperated
this practices into there religious system and that is how the vatican got it.
now do you understand why it is called mystery babylon?
remember the son of perdition which paul spoke of? it is same thing as this beast who will also go into perdition. perdition means destined for destruction by the Lord.


3.the scripture means indeed that the numerical equivalent of his name is 666. now you need to understand that the word name does not necessarily imply literal name but what he stands for or acts, or claims to be ,.. in otherwords his title which he wears on his crown . take for example Exodus 34:14 "For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous..

4 it is you who think otherwise. john started by saying "as you have heard that antichrist is coming" he was referring to the same thing paul was saying in 2 thessalonians 2. and then went on to say that many antichrists have come already meaning there are many people who have corrupted the gospel as at his time. the catholic church foundation goes back to the time of the apostles with a man known as simon the sorcerer. these people are same people who are part of the fallen ,the apostasia that shall usher in the man of sin. so john is not saying somthing different at all he is still referring to the antichrist and its system because john still spoke of a falling away and a revealing of the apostate church when he said " that they might be manifest that they where not of us. this is the apostasia. when this apostate church is set up it will have a man as its head. every organization do that.


5. you sound like a child. is this the kind of person that stands in front of people to preach? christianity was spreading all over the world. john was not adressing a hebrew and greek audience, he was adressing every beliver in christ irreective of nationality.

paul himself took the gospel to rome. rome was the capitial of civilization then just as america is now. the gospel was spreading to rome faster than any place and so rome was not left out. the roman numerals equally serve as letters. you no go school? i(1) ,ii (2), iii(3), iv(4), v(5) and so on and so forth. in does days they understood that when the antichrist comes his name in any letter will have a numerical equivalent of 666 in this case it has to be the roman numerals because rome is the fourth kingdom and the papacy has been identified as the little horn.
why would one look at greek or hebrew language for 666 , is the antichrist said to arise from greece or jerusalem ? you dont know your bible.

EMILO2STAY:
you said islam also fits those descriptions of the antichrist in the bible but it does not. lol every thing you listed there I have addressed in the post you quoted my guy it seems you have comprehension problem.

it seems you are now seeking clarification like you want to learn ok.


1. daniel 7 gives an insight into what the beast is and that is a kingdom with a
man ruling and sitted in top position. if you agree this kingdom / system is already in existence then you also know that the man ruling there is the eyes and mouth of that little horn the same as the man of sin. this system is refered to as the beast in bible
prophecy because it took over from the fourth beast and used its political
power. the beast is not a person per say but a political power how many times do i have to prove that with scripture?


2.this beast described by John in revelation is nothing but the office of the
papacy as proven by the bible and history, which is still same as mystery babylon. this babylonian system as at the time of johns revelation was "not" in existence but is to
" to come. meaning the babylonian system was in existed before johns times during time of of babylonian empire and as at the time of the revelation is not in existence becuase babylon is no more but is to come in the near future through the papacy who have assimilated the babylonian pagan culture through rome because the priests of
babylon ran to rome at the fall of babylon and they ran to a place called
pagamos in rome which the bible called the sit of satan. rome incooperated
this practices into there religious system and that is how the vatican got it.
now do you understand why it is called mystery babylon?
remember the son of perdition which paul spoke of? it is same thing as this beast who will also go into perdition. perdition means destined for destruction by the Lord.


3.the scripture means indeed that the numerical equivalent of his name is 666. now you need to understand that the word name does not necessarily imply literal name but what he stands for or acts, or claims to be ,.. in otherwords his title which he wears on his crown . take for example Exodus 34:14 "For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous..

4 it is you who think otherwise. john started by saying "as you have heard that antichrist is coming" he was referring to the same thing paul was saying in 2 thessalonians 2. and then went on to say that many antichrists have come already meaning there are many people who have corrupted the gospel as at his time. the catholic church foundation goes back to the time of the apostles with a man known as simon the sorcerer. these people are same people who are part of the fallen ,the apostasia that shall usher in the man of sin. so john is not saying somthing different at all he is still referring to the antichrist and its system because john still spoke of a falling away and a revealing of the apostate church when he said " that they might be manifest that they where not of us. this is the apostasia. when this apostate church is set up it will have a man as its head. every organization do that.


5. you sound like a child. is this the kind of person that stands in front of people to preach? christianity was spreading all over the world. john was not adressing a hebrew and greek audience, he was adressing every beliver in christ irreective of nationality.

paul himself took the gospel to rome. rome was the capitial of civilization then just as america is now. the gospel was spreading to rome faster than any place and so rome was not left out. the roman numerals equally serve as letters. you no go school? i(1) ,ii (2), iii(3), iv(4), v(5) and so on and so forth. in does days they understood that when the antichrist comes his name in any letter will have a numerical equivalent of 666 in this case it has to be the roman numerals because rome is the fourth kingdom and the papacy has been identified as the little horn.
why would one look at greek or hebrew language for 666 , is the antichrist said to arise from greece or jerusalem ? you dont know your bible.

Please it's okay. I don't think you fit into my space. Constantly saying what I never said and presenting yourself as though you're in a fight.

I need intelligent and and mature presentations. Thanks for your time.