MiddleDimension:


Well, if Paul told Timothy in one of his letters to him that a bishop should be the husband of one wife, then it is because there were homes among the early christians communities that were polygamous....

And not one of them was praised or honoured by God. That clearly shows you God's mind.

Oyakhilome is absolutely right here

MiddleDimension:


Non of that describes polygamy

You did not ask me to describe polygamy but to show the problems arising out of polygee.

MiddleDimension:


care to elaborate?

A person can be called yet he does not accept eg Moses.

A person can accept yet he is not called or is delusional as to his calling and who he imagines called him.

MiddleDimension:


No, a divorced pastor SHOULD give marriage advice. You know why?

Because the counsel you recieve from your ordained ministers in their capacity as priests or prophets, has got nothing to do with their sanctity as individuals (that is if at all getting a divorce can make anyone unclean in the sight of the lord), but has everything to do with god's promise to you that he will be there for you in your time of need. The bible says even if you are unfaithful, he will always be faithful because who he is, is not dependent on.who you are. 2 Tim 2:13. He also told the ministers not to worry about what to say when you, Negroid001, goes to them to seek advice on issues. He said whatever they will say will be given to them because what they will speak will not be their own words, but the spirit of god speaking through them. Matt 10:19-20.

I get your point.
I'm not religious. Imaginary principles don't work for me.

But i get what you're trying to say now.

I want to ask a question.
Would you let a surgeon with mortality rate consult for you, let's assume you have a life threatening emergency?

Dtruthspeaker:


And not one of them was praised or honoured by God. That clearly shows you God's mind.

No, God's mind is clear from the old testament into the new: that polygamy is right in his sight, and that he blesses it.

If the new testament did not mention anyone in particular in new testament time, and ''praise him for polygamy'', then it is because non of the books of the new testament can be classified as a history book. It is only in the history books of the bible you see mention of individuals and the basic interpersonal politics that happened with and around them in which virtues could be seen.

The new testament consist of the synoptic gospels (the life of Jesus), the acts of apostles (an account of the movement of the holy spirit among christians), the epistles (letters written mainly by the apostles to address specific issues, and when it came to addressing the issue of what to change after getting born again, it says you should remain as you are even if you have more than one wife), and the apocalypsis (an escathology). So, you can see there is no history book there and that's why you cannot find what you asked.

But in the old testament, there is the Pentatuch (a somewhat historical account of the hebrews in eapecially with genesis and exodus). You also have other hisorical books like Judges, 1&2 sam, 1&2 kings, 1&2 chronicles, Esther, Joshua, Ruth, Ezra and Nehemiah. It is in books like these you see mention of individuals and the interpersonal politics that played around them, which presents us with an opoortunity to see the virtues in these individuals, virtues God rained praises on. He said of David, ''he is a man after my heart!

Men who had polygamous homes and who's virtues god extoled did not stop with David; the list include Moses (Exodus 33 vs 17). He says about Moses: ''I will do everything you have asked, because I am pleased with you and know you by name''. Of Gideon, he said: ''The lord is with you, brave and mighty man''. He said this even though ''Gideon had 70 sons because he had many wives''. Gideon was one of the people referenced in Hebrew 11 as a role model for faith.

In other non history books in the old testament, you don't see mention of individuals who had more than one wife, and were extoled for their virtues. Books of songs and wisdom like psalm, proverb, eclesiastes, Lamentation, etc did not have such accounts even though they are in the old testament. Books like the prophetic books also do not have auch accoubts as well because they are not history books.

paxonel:
Oyakhilome is absolutely right here

especially when Paul said in 1 cor 7 that you need to remain as you were when you accepted God's call.

Dtruthspeaker:


A person can be called yet he does not accept eg Moses.

A person can accept yet he is not called or is delusional as to his calling and who he imagines called him.

The God's call mentioned in that part of the bible is not a call to priesthood, but the basic call to repentace and chriatianity. In Revelations, it says: behold I stand at the door of your heart and knock; who ever opens, I will come in.

So, what I said there stands.

Negroid001:


I get your point.
I'm not religious. Imaginary principles don't work for me.

But i get what you're trying to say now.

I want to ask a question.
Would you let a surgeon with mortality rate consult for you, let's assume you have a life threatening emergency?

Except that this is not a surgeon's case; it is a christian case.

NB: I am an atheist

Dtruthspeaker:


You did not ask me to describe polygamy but to show the problems arising out of polygee.

How is immorality, injustice and cheating a problem associates with polygamy?

MiddleDimension:

Also, Paul vehemently disagrees with you that you should divorce any of your wives when you became born again.
1Cor 7 vs 20
''Each of you SHOULD REMAIN AS YOU WERE WHEN YOU ACCEPTED GOD'S CALL. IF YOU ARE A SLAVE REMAIN A SLAVE, IF YOU ARE UNCIRCUMCISED, REMAIN UNCIRCUMSIZED, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE WIFE, MAINTAIN IT THAT WAY''
The in Galatians 1 vs 8-12, he said: if anyone teaches you anything different (like you have believed many of your ignorant pastors tell you to divorce one wife), let him be accursed!
@Paxonel,
@DTruthSeeker calls this response of mine fraudulent. What do you think?

.

MiddleDimension:


How is immorality, injustice and cheating a problem associates with polygamy?

I hate it when people pretend to not know what we all know, they already know because they adults.
https://www.nairaland.com/7100986/polygamous-family-share-experiences#112347399

https://www.nairaland.com/7129075/women-wives-major-problem-polygamous#112880152
Women (Wives) Are The Major Problem In Polygamous Homes by Belafonte(m): 10:14am On May 16, 2022
So, I've been reading about how polygamous homes are so bad and what not. I read about some people's fantastic and tragic experiences

Klass99:
A guy shared his personal story here, not too long ago - it wasn't nice.

His step mother was diabolical and raped him when he was about 11 years old (If I remember correctly) she drugged him through food & drink first, which immobilized him then they took him to the bedroom where step-mother put something on his penis and massaged it to get an erection then she mounted him and was chanting some stuff while riding him.

When the step mother was done, the friend did the same thing to him. Down the line, the same step mother tried to kill him via a poisoned drink, that guy's story wasn't nice at all. On her death bed, she confessed to other things they weren't even aware of.

Why do people bother with polygamy? I haven't heard one good story from people who grew up in polygamous settings.

MiddleDimension:


The God's call mentioned in that part of the bible is not a call to priesthood, but the basic call to repentace and chriatianity. In Revelations, it says: behold I stand at the door of your heart and knock; who ever opens, I will come in.

So, what I said there stands.

We know. But the question will always be did God call you? or do you imagine it? or you are lying to us that He called you when in Truth He did not or has not?

MaxInDHouse:
According to Christ the first woman is the wife of your youth any other woman that comes in is an intruder whether she has babies or not so when you become a Christian you must stop sleeping with any other woman except the wife of your youth which is your first wife!

In Christianity return everything we have stolen the other women are stolen since your first wife is still alive!

These GB doctrinal nonsense self.


Give scriptural examples.

MiddleDimension:
...
Men who had polygamous homes and who's virtues god extoled did not stop with David; the list include Moses (Exodus 33 vs 17). He says about Moses: ''I will do everything you have asked, because I am pleased with you and know you by name''. Of Gideon, he said: ''The lord is with you, brave and mighty man''. He said this even though ''Gideon had 70 sons because he had many wives''. Gideon was one of the people referenced in Hebrew 11 as a role model for faith..

You have said all these before and it did not hold water for except Moses who did not have 2 wives but only.1 wife, an act of which.occurred in the presence of The Lord and The Lord Spoke with him until his death, no time do you see God praise any one of these or talk with them after their breach.

So you are just advocating the doing of sin like those who advocate for homo, tattoo, whoring etc

MightySparrow:

These GB doctrinal nonsense self.
Give scriptural examples.

.

MaxInDHouse:


Paul was referring to converts who feels their wives must join them in their new found faith or they will divorce them, what Christianity is against is multiple sex mates so before you are baptized as a Christian you must stop mating with more than one woman that's why other wives can't continue with you.
You're not divorcing them if they want to stay they're free but having sex with them becomes a sin from the moment you accept Christ.

What bunkum!

But I thought you Jehovah's withnesses claim you don't believe whatever is not in the bible.

See sola scriptura vs sola fidei debate.

but here you are, cooking things up yourself, and presenting it like it is the word of the lord.
There is NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE WHERE GOD SAID A MAN WHO HAS MIRE THAN ONE WIFE SHOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH THE OTHER WIVES. HE NEVER TOLD DAVID, NOR DID HE TELL GIDEON, MOSES, JACOB, OR ANY OF THE CHRISTIANS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT WHO HAD MORE THAN ONE WIFE.

I really thought as a sola scriptura believing christians that witnesses are, they would insist on what is said by god, in the bible, and not try to bring up their views and present it like it is god's position on issues. This is what God frowned at Peter on when he told him in Acts 10 that he should not call unclean what he himself considers clean.

MaxInDHouse:
Most of you don't understand this but i will explain.

What God promised mankind is Paradise where there will be no sorrow, pain, envy, anger, jealousy, hatred and quarrelling but that can't be possible with polygamists you can't find one single example of a polygamist in the Bible whose home doesn't experience the troubles resulting from polygamy. such will not be allowed in Paradise so to prevent it all of us must return to the standard God set in the beginning for marriage which is one Adam one Eve!

First of all, lets look at monogamies in the bible and see if these ''problems'' exist.

Adam and Eve

Adam and Eve was a mogamous marriage yet, we could find all the things you listed above in dangerously high levels!

Cain and Abel offered sacrifices to god and the bible says Cain became FURIOUS and SCOWLED in ANGER! (gen 4:5). His anger reached such a dangerous level that god had to warn him to be careful. God said: ''because you have done evil, SIN IS CROUCHING AT YOUR DOOR AND IT WANTS TO RULE YOU, BUT YOU MUST OVERCOME IT.''. Because the anger and jealousy was so great, he turned around and did the worst: KILL ABEL! That's case No1.

Case No2: Isaac and Rebecca

This is another monogamy, whose ONLY CHILDREN were TWINS, and as you will see, IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO CLOSE YOUR EYES, that there was a dangerous level of ENVY, HATRED, JEALOUSY, ATTEMPTED MURDER, CURSE, FAVOURITISM AND THEFT.

Even though Cain and Abel were twins, the bible says: Isaac prefered Essau while Rebecca prefered Jacob (Gen 25:28). That's favouritism which you think polygamy breeds! the favouritism was at such a dangerous level that when Isaac wanted to bless Essau, one of Rebecca's children, she plotted and STOLE the blessings for Jacob. When Essau heard it, he said: ''THIS IS THE SECOND TIME HE IS CHEATING ME'' (Gen 27:36). In vs 41, it says: Essau HATED Jacob and that he will KILL Jacob. In vs 44, Rebecca said to Jacob to stay with his uncle until his brother's ANGER had cooled down.

So, can we say these are due to monogamy?

Now, lets look at polygamy and see if there exists virtue and some of God's loftiests ideals.

Lamech (Gen 4: 18-22)

The bible says Lamech had two wives and he had three sons. The first one, Jabal, was the father of those who did agriculture. The second was the father of musicians, and the third one was the father of those who made crafts.

When the bible says ''they are they fathers of...'' it means they were so accomplished in their chosen careers that when you mention those careers, they are the first ones that will cone to mind. They became famous for these professions due to their hard work, dedication and delligence.

According to sociologists, there is a strong correlation between career success and a very well adjusted home.

Jacob's polygamous home

When the other brothers plotted to kill Joseph, Reuben, Jacob's first born who DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME MOTHER WITH JOSEPH BY THE WAY, planned to save him. Also, take note that his brothers hate him not because he had a different mother, but because ''joseph loved him more than the others''(Gen 37:4). Also, see that all his brothers who hated him, were also children of different mothers. They also loved Benjamin and protected him even though he was born of Rachel, Joseph's mother. Judah said he PLEDGED HIS LIFE FOR BENJAMIN (Gen 44:32).

After Joseph had been sold and Reuben.came back to the well and dis not find him, the bible said he TORE HIS CLOTHES IN SORROW! (Gen 37:29)

What about Gideon, who the bibke says.had many wives yet NOT A SINGLE EVIL WAS RECORDED TO HIS NAME INSTEAD, HE WAS MENTIONED IN HEBREWS 11 AS A MODEL OF FAITH TO THE BORN AGAIN.

There you go; I have answered your question by providing examples of polygamous homes in the bible where the highest virtues exist, those virtues you see in paradise. I have also provided you with evidence from monogamies in the bible where the worst vices of envy, jealousy, hatred, etc, existed in dangerous levels.

@DTruthSeeker @Donnie @Joagbaje. I wonder what you think about this.

MaxInDHouse:


Name one polygamous Christian in Bible times!

Hahahaha.


You have to answer my question first. Just back up your claim with just one scripture.
Only one.

No one was having more than one wife in the whole Europe in the time of Paul, Peter and others.
Alawada kerikeri

1Tim.3.2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Tim.3.12 - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, [/b]ruling their children and their own houses well.
Titus.1.6 - [b]If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

There must have been polygamists in the first church, but were not permitted to be leaders. (Your organization does not have deacons and bishops; they are not scriptural)
Those things were not serious issues to any one who was coming in contact with Christian faith for the first time.

Marriage is a cultural thing. The culture of Christianity gradually swallowed those existing ones. In the process, no record of any husband who was recorded that sent away his wives. Today, it is not an issue anymore in Europe. Theirs is not standard either. Today it is one man one wife. Either may have married severally before.


All these nonsensical inferences from the conceited GB.

I remember you also claim that no one apart from Jews manifested any spiritual gifts. And Paul gave them instructions on how to manage manifestations of spiritual gifts one of which is prophecy.

No none Jewish prophesied?!

Special teachings from special imperfect organization.

MightySparrow:



These GB doctrinal nonsense self.


Give scriptural examples.

Wow!

I swear I did not see this response before I responded to this very post of his; and like you, I described it as ''bunkum'', meaning: nonsense!

So, @MaxInDHouse, you can see I am not the only one who can see what you wrote there and not only called it nonsense, i.e, it doesn't make sense, but also saw that you did not come up with that from your bible. I also refered you to check sola scriptura vs sola fidei debate.

@mightySparrow, please scroll up and see my response to @MaxInDHouse and tell me what you think.

MightySparrow:



Hahahaha.


You have to answer my question first. Just back up your claim with just one scripture.
Only one.

No one was having more than one wife in the whole Europe in the time of Paul, Peter and others.
Alawada kerikeri

1Tim.3.2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Tim.3.12 - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, [/b]ruling their children and their own houses well.
Titus.1.6 - [b]If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

There must have been polygamists in the first church, but were not permitted to be leaders. (Your organization does not have deacons and bishops; they are not scriptural)
Those things were not serious issues to any one who was coming in contact with Christian faith for the first time.

Marriage is a cultural thing. The culture of Christianity gradually swallowed those existing ones. In the process, no record of any husband who was recorded that sent away his wives. Today, it is not an issue anymore in Europe. Theirs is not standard either. Today it is one man one wife. Either may have married severally before.


All these nonsensical inferences from the conceited GB.

I remember you also claim that no one apart from Jews manifested any spiritual gifts. And Paul gave them instructions on how to manage manifestations of spiritual gifts one of which is prophecy.

No none Jewish prophesied?!

Special teachings from special imperfect organization.

Это точно!

MiddleDimension:


Wow!

I swear I did not see this response before I responded to this very post of his; and like you, I described it as ''bunkum'', meaning: nonsense!

So, @MaxInDHouse, you can see I am not the only one who can see what you wrote there and not only called it nonsense, i.e, it doesn't make sense, but also saw that you did not come up with that from your bible. I also refered you to check sola scriptura vs sola fidei debate.

@mightySparrow, please scroll up and see my response to @MaxInDHouse and tell me what you think.

Thanks brother. I just read through. You make a lot of sense. Please check my signature and purpose on this platform.
Thanks Sir.

MightySparrow:


Thanks brother. I just read through. You make a lot of sense. Please check my signature and purpose on this platform.
Thanks Sir.

Keep up tge good work. That's why I am here too.

MightySparrow:



Hahahaha.


You have to answer my question first. Just back up your claim with just one scripture.
Only one.

No one was having more than one wife in the whole Europe in the time of Paul, Peter and others.
Alawada kerikeri

1Tim.3.2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Tim.3.12 - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, [/b]ruling their children and their own houses well.
Titus.1.6 - [b]If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

There must have been polygamists in the first church, but were not permitted to be leaders. (Your organization does not have deacons and bishops; they are not scriptural)
Those things were not serious issues to any one who was coming in contact with Christian faith for the first time.

Marriage is a cultural thing. The culture of Christianity gradually swallowed those existing ones. In the process, no record of any husband who was recorded that sent away his wives. Today, it is not an issue anymore in Europe. Theirs is not standard either. Today it is one man one wife. Either may have married severally before.


All these nonsensical inferences from the conceited GB.

I remember you also claim that no one apart from Jews manifested any spiritual gifts. And Paul gave them instructions on how to manage manifestations of spiritual gifts one of which is prophecy.

No none Jewish prophesied?!

Special teachings from special imperfect organization.

.

MaxInDHouse:


Please mention one polygamist Christian in the Bible!

This is why you will remain in your chains for years. Instead of you to use your brain you will be asking foolish questions. Your NT was inspired by Rome. They hate the messiah and his ppl and he also hated them and always expose their lies. They were in charge then and the ones to choose what is to be accepted or rejected. Many truths were lost and lies added by them. They omitted anything polygamy cos they hated it. But they love gays even till today. Those things happened in Africa that love polygamy, how come nothing like polygamy in the NT? They removed it cos they hated it and lied to you that lordjc said you should cast away your 2nd wife if born again. Marriage is a covenant whether 1 or more. If you send any away cos you claim to be born again, you commit a great sin cos you have broken a covenant. That teaching is a Roman lie. Many of you are just helping Rome propagate their lies

Casala don burst o!

Alhamdulillah!

I no get problem!

You both should leave this thread with your bigotry

MiddleDimension:


That'a not the issue at hand. The issue is that it is not only wrong, but ungodly to put aside any of your wives because you claim you are now born again.

The bible never said that, christians ahould aeriously ask themselves where they got that idea from that a man should out aside one of his wives if he become born again.

Is it not a sin to do what God has not tod you to do? why christians accept to teach that falsehood is what is beyond me.

If you disagree with Oyakhilome, then put forward your arguement and show that they are superior to his. That is fair enough, right?

Okay, but where is his wife though?

Sickening how we always have to put up with all of these religious jargons every other weekend.

He is correct.

What you cannot become is a bishop or a deacon if you have more than one wife.

There were early Christians with more than one wife, hence the commandment above.

Nothing special.

Don't be a low IQ.

That's all.

MiddleDimension:
When asked by someone im.South Africa if he should send any of his wives away, because he is now born again, Oyakhilome said no, he should not do that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SAL-4G_cwY&t=3s

What a joke!
Africa will get better and have a good paradigm shift when we start taking intellectuals seriously and stop patronising all these charlatans masquerading as pulpit thieves.

What a wise answer from the man of God !

Great men of God from the Bible had more than 1 wife. It's unfair to chase the wife you culturally and legally married because of a weak excuse that you are now a born again

Happy Mother's Sunday to all Anglican church member, and God bless every mother

Ance4Liverpool:
Oyahkilome should keep quiet, where is his own wife?

The wife wants a divorce, so don't blame him for that.