davien:
Nope...how is something totally objective viewed through subjective contexts?

I had answered that question before and asking this question proves what I had been trying to say all this while.
You can't understand spiritual things even if I try explaining it to you. You won't understand and you will only come back to ask the same question again.

Please let me help you. You really need help. God loves you.

Hiswordxray:

I had answered that question before and asking this question proves what I had been trying to say all this while.
You can't understand spiritual things even if I try explaining it to you. You won't understand and you will only come back to ask the same question again.

Please let me help you. You really need help. God loves you.

Then what was the point in telling me something is "totally objective",when a simple question like "why is it then read in subjective context" is to you not understandable?
You have no case hiswordxray....proselytizing to me won't change that..

Hiswordxray:

People that wrote the Gospel are of the same generation with Jesus. They all know him. Go and study the history properly.

Like I have told you before your knowledge about Christianity are bias. Let me help you.

They were not eye witnesses , they did not know him.

Go and ask bible scholars who are evangelical Christians, they all know this is fact.

READ...............stop listening to everything your pastor tells you. Not studying makes one a total ignoramus.

wirinet:


There is nothing like virgin birth. A virgin can never give birth. For a virgin to give birth would mean the resulting baby would have only 23 chromosones (a female egg has only 23 chromosomes. The funniest aspect is that the baby (jesus in this case) is a man. That means jesus has the XY chromosome, now where did Jesus get the Y chromosome, which is found only in male?

The virgin birth myth had been in existence from the dawn of history to signify great men, especially very power kings. Such men are attributed devine origin as to connote they are half god and half men. They are said to be a union between a diety or god and an earthly woman.

Thanks for this plain scientific explanation.

Sometimes I wonder why God gave us a brain and then asked us not to use it to understand him, what !!!!

Though I still believe in God, the freedom that comes from throwing away the shackles of religion is very profound indeed.

deleib:
Y not. Ask questions. Infact it is what strengthen your faith but your questions shd be ask frm faithful believers not frm renowned atheists. They wil only lead u d wrong way with their human teaching and undastanding.

NB: the things of the spirit can only be undastud by those possessing the spirit of God.

These men are not atheists, in fact they are ex-priests, pastors, and many are still christians or followers of Jesus.

asalimpo:
The op is deluded.
You read the bible (a book) then read other books debunking the first book and choose to believe wat the other books say.
It is still a belief and u exercised ur right to choose wat u believe in (lies in this case).

Mumu, I am trying to research numerous contradictions I have found in the bible. Should I just ignore these glaring contradictions and pretend they do not exist ? If you agree with this line of argument, then you are the deluded fellow here living in lala land.

frosbel:


Thanks for this plain scientific explanation.

Sometimes I wonder why God gave us a brain and then asked us not to use it to understand him, what !!!!

Though I still believe in God, the freedom that comes from throwing away the shackles of religion is very profound indeed.

In that case you still are not making good use of your brain yet.

Why will a God who cannot cause virgin birth to take place(according to you) cause the resurrection of the dead? A lot died thousands of years ago and have turned to dust tey tey, and these people will be raised again? If you believe the resurrection of the dead while disbelieving the virgin birth then you are not using your brain properly bro.

[quote author=Hiswordxray post=29088831]
You can't search for God with your head but with your heart.

Wrong. God gave us a brain which is used for intelligence which is used for logic and reason which is used for research, curiosity, fact finding and establishment of truths.

Our heart is what we use to embrace the truth once established.

God has asked ALL MEN to seek him, how can they find him by disengaging their brains, the very thing that makes then conscious and intelligent, duh !!

You can't understand God with your wisdom or by acquiring reasonable knowledge but by the Spirit and by humility.
"Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise." (1Cor 3:18)

I have an open heart. My aim is not to disprove the bible and God. My aim is to establish truth and have a proper and healty relationship with the source of that truth, i.e God. I don't want the confusion, madness and stupidity of religion any longer as it makes one MAD and FOOLISH.

You can't disregard God's word and say you still believe in God because God is His word.

What do you call God's word ? Would you call fabrications and myths the word of God ? If yes, then I say you are a Liar because God can never lie. Lie is a lie and telling a lie to either coverup the flaws and myths in your religion makes you a participant of falsehood or laziness by not studying to show yourself approved of God, but instead believing everything your MOG tells you without due diligence.

honourhim:


In that case you still are not making good use of your brain yet.

Why will a God who cannot cause virgin birth to take place(according to you) cause the resurrection of the dead? A lot died thousands of years ago and have turned to dust tey tey, and these people will be raised again? If you believe the resurrection of the dead while disbelieving the virgin birth then you are not using your brain properly bro.

I am still studying.....

[quote author=Ifeann post=29088865]

Hello frobel,
I want to let you know that so many of the "theories" and assertions by the very brilliant Bart Ehrmn, R. Darwin, etc have been torn apart by brilliant Christian apologists like Dr mike licona, Dr David wood(ex athiest), Sam shamonun(ex Muslim), Robert spenser etc
Bart Ehrmn's arguments don't hold water under serious scrutiny. If you believe God exists, he is none other than the christain God

Just like the Muslims who lose every argument in a debate or war and claim victory all the same , oh yes , I have seen this comment somewhere before

Though I must admit, I do not agree with every line of argument that Bart brings to the table, he does bring up very good points that are not subjective but are rather objective in relation to the specific topic. Problem with his detractors is that they base their argument on theology not history when we all know that history has totally debunked a lot of theological garbage being presented as truth/doctrine in the name of orthodoxy. Do you know that many of the early church fathers were former Greek pagans who brought a lot of their previously held philosophical ideas and notions into Christianity. That is why Paul made this statement :
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ." - Colossians 2:8

Almost every new testament scholar ( including atheists and moslems) believes Jesus existed. They may disagree on his divinity but they acknowledge he walked this earth.

and so does Bart , me and countless others. In fact I also believe he is the Christ.

Now what I want to ask you is how can a humble carpenter born 2000years ago and who was in his 30s crucified and who's followers proclaimed his divinity unflinchingly till their bloody deaths... change the history of the world in the way he has.
If you still doubt me turn to Matthew 11 verse 25 or the synoptic parallel Luke 10 verse 21

Ask Muslims. How can a poor , uneducated Nomad in the name of Muhammed start a religion which is nearing 1.8 billions adherents and has also changed the world ??

Or ask the Hindus with over 1 billion adherents and Buddhists with 200-500 millions adherents.

Many of these people of other religions do die and will die even more for their cause, so it is not a peculiarity with Christianity.

Dear Frosbel,

I've followed your threads and arguments over time on here, I was pretty active like you too(not as much in the real sense). I saw your transition too just like me. I still don't have the answers now, but I stopped looking. Not looking brings with itself some form of inner peace. Devote all that energy to something else and you would be glad you did. I practice Christianity (my religion at birth), but common sense and rationality drives everything I do. The time spent to research the perfect counter argument for a perceived false premise would be more valuable if channeled to what brings your earning. This place can be really addictive, but I think your days of always being here would soon be over. Stop looking and just live life. Be less vocal of your past findings, let them all play in your head. Once you make a decision to stop looking you would be happy you did. I'm not asking you to embrace Christianity or any sect within the fold. I'm only asking you to stop looking. Create a moral compass for yourself, your sense of judgement on what is right or wrong will guide that. Try this for three months and see how it turns out.

Best regards,
Ezme

frosbel:


I am still studying.....

Abeg study sharp sharp and give us your answer. And until you produce your answer, your disbelieve in the virgin birth remains baseless.

When you are done with that you ll still tell us why you believe in a God that you ve not seen.
Why you believe that he lives in heaven with his angels when you ve not been there to see them.
Why you believe that he will create a new heaven and a new earth at last.
Why you believe he did any of the miracles recorded in the bible at all.

Lets leave it at this for now since you already have a lot of brain work to do here. When you are done with this then i ll ask more Thanks.

ezme:
Dear Frosbel,

I've followed your threads and arguments over time on here, I was pretty active like you too(not as much in the real sense). I saw your transition too just like me. I still don't have the answers now, but I stopped looking. Not looking brings with itself some form of inner peace. Devote all that energy to something else and you would be glad you did. I practice Christianity (my religion at birth), but common sense and rationality drives everything I do. The time spent to research the perfect counter argument for a perceived false premise would be more valuable if channeled to what brings your earning. This place can be really addictive, but I think your days of always being here would soon be over. Stop looking and just live life. Be less vocal of your past findings, let them all play in your head. Once you make a decision to stop looking you would be happy you did. I'm not asking you to embrace Christianity or any sect within the fold. I'm only asking you to stop looking. Create a moral compass for yourself, your sense of judgement on what is right or wrong will guide that. Try this for three months and see how it turns out.

Best regards,
Ezme

Thanks for the advice, but I cannot stop looking , lol. My quest is for the benefit of others too not just me. I don't think searching for truth can ever end until we see God face to face.

We are admonished to keep seeking and finding......

I think my time is very wisely spent, so don't worry about my time here, it is a hobby for me and interest since I don't do anything else apart from work, family and study

[quote author=honourhim post=29093002]

Abeg study sharp sharp and give us your answer. And until you produce your answer, your disbelieve in the virgin birth remains baseless.

What makes one foolish is not the lack of correct theology, it is the unwillingness to find out if what you hold as truth is actual truth. Not to prove all things makes one a willing participant in ignorance and if the ignorant is in a place of leadership he/she will end up producing more ignoramuses.

Try and study bro, enough with this religion fanaticism.

Paul is giving you some advice, take it :

"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good" - 1 Thessalonians 5:21

ezme are you an ignostic?

davien:
ezme are you an ignostic?

I took the easy way out, I'm back to being a Christian. My unbelief was hurting the people who truly cared about me.

ezme:


I took the easy way out, I'm back to being a Christian. My unbelief was hurting the people who truly cared about me.

Was it fair to lie to yourself to keep people happy?

[quote author=frosbel post=29093083][/quote]

It is a Pandora's box

frosbel:

What makes one foolish is not the lack of correct theology, it is the unwillingness to find out if what you hold as truth is actual truth. Not to prove all things makes one a willing participant in ignorance and if the ignorant is in a place of leadership he/she will end up producing more ignoramuses.

Try and study bro, enough with this religion fanaticism.

Paul is giving you some advice, take it :

"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good" - 1 Thessalonians 5:21

We are still saying the same thing. Do your study and give us answers. I'm only giving you the areas your study covers because all of them are hooked to each other. You cant just pick one of it, cancel/invalidate it and say you are studying it while living the rest valid. It makes you a bad researcher. Put all of them on the same platform of disbelieve/invalid, then begin your research to either validate them or keep them invalid.

ezme:


It is a Pandora's box

so be it, we can't sweep the dirt under the carpet Sir.

I am very confident that my search will make my belief in God adn Christ stronger . My premise for study unlike many is to prove God and truth not disprove him or his truths.

davien:
Was it fair to lie to yourself to keep people happy?

The difference is I didn't lie to myself. I admitted no side of the divide had all the answers, and I stopped worrying about it and refrained from discussing religion publicly. I've been where you are standing now, in the end you just end up isolating yourself from others and allowing other people put the devil on you. Nigeria is a religio-centric society, it is not yet ready for your unbelief.

frosbel:


so be it, we can't sweep the dirt under the carpet Sir.

I am very confident that my search will make my belief in God adn Christ stronger . My premise for study unlike many is to prove God and truth not disprove him or his truths.

It is hard to prove a premise to the status of fact, without evidence. The God concept is faith driven. How do you disprove contradictory present day evidence with writings in a book? You already admitted in your opening post the stories in the bible don't all add up.

ooman:
That's how it starts.

1. Doubt the god of a particular religion.

2. Think, learn, know.

3. You are an atheist.

Simple.

You are rejoicing too early. By now I thought atheists would be wiser.

[quote author=frosbel post=29092925][/quote]

Firstly, Muslims are 1.2, the highest figures I have sEen is 1.5 billion and not 1.8billion. They are still far below christain numbers.
Again, Muslims are allegedly a break away of Christianity with Gnostic ideas. Hindus and buddists are pagans these religions are based on myth, who have no theology only mythology and whose numbers continue to fall as Christ liberate them. At least we know there was a Christ, and we know someone who claimed prophethood is buried in mecca..
And finally why do you allude to that the early church did not obey Paul's stern warning entirely when he wrote them saying ; ""See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ." -Colossians 2:8

@frosbel .......
Free your mind and watch this on you tube:

The Passion of Jesus" by Abdur Rahim Green (Full Version)

frosbel:


They were not eye witnesses , they did not know him.

Go and ask bible scholars who are evangelical Christians, they all know this is fact.

READ...............stop listening to everything your pastor tells you. Not studying makes one a total ignoramus.

Yes some of them weren't eye witnesses like Luke but what do u say of JOHN AND MATHEW who were both disciples?. Remember Jesus ate with Mathew who the Jews hate because they saw him as a Roman agent.

frosbel:


They were not eye witnesses , they did not know him.

Go and ask bible scholars who are evangelical Christians, they all know this is fact.

READ...............stop listening to everything your pastor tells you. Not studying makes one a total ignoramus.

Actually what hiswordxray said is largely correct. I haven't seen any disputes to Mathew, mark, Luke and James or any of pauls letters.

However I HAVE seen disputes to John. A lot of disputes on it because it comes late. But the critics haven't proven it was not authentic.

And besides I believe God inspired the Bible and protected it. So I have no doubts.

Hiswordxray:

People that wrote the Gospel are of the same generation with Jesus. They all know him. Go and study the history properly.

Like I have told you before your knowledge about Christianity are bias. Let me help you.

lol bro what are u saying the people that wrote the gospel never saw jesus or know, they were not even alife when he supposedly walked the earth. the earliest gospel mark was written sometime between 70AD, my dear please stop lying to defend anything even tho you are emotionally attached to it...
if you really want to find the real truth, lets dig in together and see the truth for ourselves. the truth never shys away from question, it is there for all to see...please no arguement, ask some questions urself and get ur answers urself...

deleib:
Yes some of them weren't eye witnesses like Luke but what do u say of JOHN AND MATHEW who were both disciples?. Remember Jesus ate with Mathew who the Jews hate because they saw him as a Roman agent.

bros the four gospels are written by anonymous authors. so you dont know they were up to 300gospels, so during the council of nicea where the canon of the bible was assembled. the four gospels were chosen because they were a little corresponding, others were then either hidden away or burnt.. then christain scribes who edited ths four gospels gave them those title matthew, mark, luke and john.

UyiIredia:


You are rejoicing too early. By now I thought atheists would be wiser.

This is no joy. Its just an outline. Calm your insecure mind down.

His belief or non belief is non of my business. ok?

frosbel:


I still believe in Christ as the Messiah and his ultimate resurrection purely because of Paul. Paul's letters predate the gospels and were written nearer to the time of Jesus by as much as 20 years or so. This means he must have had real contact with the original apostles as he states , and was the one person who was able to articulate the whole concept of Jesus's death, burial, resurrection and purpose into a logical sequence of events pointing to the good news and God's ultimate plan for mankind.

It might interest you to know that Paul is the biggest fraud in the New Testament and to Christianity. Please read this: http://paulproblem.faithweb.com/conversion_paul.htm Also Femi Aribisala has a lot to say about Paul in his blog. You may check that out too.