[quote author=IamaNigerianGuy post=58213268][/quote]

I know. But not all knowledge is lost. In a lot of negativity I look for positivity.

For example if someone says AD is A exclusive of A and since it's all part of the alphabets then O shares or does not share the same nature then I simply look for the WHY and create my own philosophical position from that. I read to grow and not to copy and paste.

No living person no matter how enlightened holds all the answers. We all work within limits.

CatfishBilly:

You read Bertrand Russell and you're still a Christian?
How did that happen?

I just answered that.

randomperson:

[s] So felixomor is now a standard for dumbness.

As old as Methuselah
As black as coal
As wise as Solomon
As dumb as --------

Fill in the gap[/s]

JackBizzle:

[s]
Lol....whuch intelligent people? Ishilove? Kingebukasblog? You?
[/s]

JackBizzle:


FELIXOMORON�

lepasharon:


FELIXOMOR!

Obsessed ediorts

Receive sense
All of you ....
LoL

spacetacular:


I just answered that.

So, what you're saying is (I'm paraphrasing) reading Bertrand Russell made you a stronger Christian, while it made me an atheist?

KingEbukasBlog:


Miracles can be performed by both theists and atheists . Atheists in witchcraft are casting spells and muttering incantations to the elements of nature for miracles to happen . Atheists in han folk religion in China are magically casting out evil spirits through exorcism. And you are here trying to be skeptical about miracles like the deists?

Nairaland atheists are bad comedians .

Lies. Claims are not evidence. I put it to you that all your claims are empty and lies. Come and demonstrate a clear cut miracle . I'll bring an amputee. If christianity is true you should be able to do that because Jesus promised you the ability to do greater things than him. We are told he was a great magician and.miracle worker.

HardMirror:

the way Christians claim God answers prayers, one wld expect at least one amputee being restored even just once in 20years. yet every day thousands of people thank God for miracles. one shld really be curious.

KingEbukasblog is telling me that atheist are magically casting out evil spirits in China. Can you imagine that? These guys are crazy . Evil spirits eh? .

HardMirror:

the way Christians claim God answers prayers, one wld expect at least one amputee being restored even just once in 20years. yet every day thousands of people thank God for miracles. one shld really be curious.

our miracle working pastors that claim lots of miracles like healing cancer, healing permanent erection , making blind see, lame walk etc even freaking raising the dead cannot heal amputees, they won't even bother trying if an amputee comes to their crusades because they know it would ruin the business

CatfishBilly:

So, what you're saying is (I'm paraphrasing) reading Bertrand Russell made you a stronger Christian, while it made me an atheist?

Yes it did. I cannot be swayed by the philosophical musings of any man especially when I know it's all within the limits of HIS own mind and DESIRES. I simply develop my own musing from his own in relation to my belief and move on.

felixomor:








Obsessed ediorts

Receive sense
All of you ....
LoL

FELIXOMORON!

spacetacular:


Yes it did. I cannot be swayed by the philosophical musings of any man especially when I know it's all within the limits of HIS own mind and DESIRES. I simply develop my own musing from his own in relation to my belief and move on.

How do you reconcile things like the effectiveness of prayers (the Scientific studies) to your own personal philosophies?
It can be difficult to reconcile your ideals with reality, you know.

"Miracle is not contrary to nature but contrary to what we know about nature" st. Augustine.
Also, somewhere in the scripture; Jesus said "i thank u fada 4 u have hidden this from the wise & had revealed it to the little ones"
I am a science student hoping to be a professor in biology but i can attest that science has no comparison with religion.
¤science as we all know deal with 'proven fact' fact dat was developed through observation, hypothesis.....then it becomes fact strictly under the knowledge of men.but this fact has it boundaries because scientists had declared some things or events 'impossible'
¤but religion deals with faith dat was developed through believe, trust & hope; with the power of faith nothing is impossible, everything is possible as far as you believe!
to the scientist, it's against nature & totally imposible bt to d christains who have concrete faith, it is naturally possible

hopefulLandlord:


our miracle working pastors that claim lots of miracles like healing cancer, healing permanent erection , making blind see, lame walk etc even freaking raising the dead cannot heal amputees, they won't even bother trying if an amputee comes to their crusades because they know it would ruin the business

Or a personal favorite of mine.
Since they can raise the dead, they should raise someone who died after having their head cut off.
I'll personally go back to that religion.

lepasharon:



FELIXOMORON!

Doesnt rhyme
Too many syllables
Try another cliche

KingEbukasBlog:


Miracles can be performed by both theists and atheists . Atheists in witchcraft are casting spells and muttering incantations to the elements of nature for miracles to happen . Atheists in han folk religion in China are magically casting out evil spirits through exorcism. And you are here trying to be skeptical about miracles like the deists?

Nairaland atheists are bad comedians .

Honestly.

CatfishBilly:

How do you reconcile things like the effectiveness of prayers (the Scientific studies) to your own personal philosophies?
It can be difficult to reconcile your ideals with reality, you know.

How can science even think prayer can be studied when they have no idea HOW it works?

Is there a prayer doorway?
Is there an invisible link between people who pray and God?
Are ALL prayer outcomes visible for all to see or personally felt and interpreted.
Is there a definite pattern to prayer AT ALL TIMES.

My realities are mixed in with all that because my prayers are personal experiences which proved itself to me by an inner consciousness of faith.

Science is Rational. Prayer is not.

So rationality tends to "predict" timing, and expects specific answers which are within its limit of rationality. However Prayer isn't rational. Neither can it be discerned that way.

Science is simply attempting to limit the scope of prayer which is beyond what they can handle.

Apostolate:
"Miracle is not contrary to nature but contrary to what we know about nature" st. Augustine.
Also, somewhere in the scripture; Jesus said "i thank u fada 4 u have hidden this from the wise & had revealed it to the little ones"
I am a science student hoping to be a professor in biology but i can attest that science has no comparison with religion.
¤science as we all know deal with 'proven fact' fact dat was developed through observation, hypothesis.....then it becomes fact strictly under the knowledge of men.but this fact has it boundaries because scientists had declared some things or events 'impossible'
¤but religion deals with faith dat was developed through believe, trust & hope; with the power of faith nothing is impossible, everything is possible as far as you believe!
to the scientist, it's against nature & totally imposible bt to d christains who have concrete faith, it is naturally possible

According to theology, there are different theological classifications of miracles, one of the most common being the three categories: "surpassing nature" (Latin supra naturam), "against nature" (Latin contra naturam) and "alongside nature" (Latin praeter naturam).

Now, only "alongside nature" has some evidence going for it, doesn't that tell you something?

CatfishBilly:

Or a personal favorite of mine.
Since they can raise the dead, they should raise someone who died after having their head cut off.
I'll personally go back to that religion.

true bro, raising a totally decapitated person goat would do lol

spacetacular:


How can science even think prayer can be studied when they have no idea HOW it works?

Is there a prayer doorway?
Is there an invisible link between people who pray and God?
Are ALL prayer outcomes visible for all to see or personally felt and interpreted.
Is there a definite pattern to prayer AT ALL TIMES.

My realities are mixed in with all that because my prayers are personal experiences which proved itself to me by an inner consciousness of faith.

Science is Rational. Prayer is not.

So rationality tends to "predict" timing, and expects specific answers which are within its limit of rationality. However Prayer isn't rational. Neither can it be discerned that way.

Science is simply attempting to limit the scope of prayer which is beyond what they can handle.

All science is trying to do with prayers is to determine its efficacy. The mechanism of action is of no concern.

Now, prayers in the Bible is described as goal oriented. Ask and it shall be given to you, Seek and you shall find, Knock and the door would be opened and whatnot.

So trying to study prayers within those goal oriented parameters isn't out of place, don't you think so?

felixomor:


Honestly.

You know a 10 years old that owns are car, yet you are laughing at others. How the irony escapes you is still a mystery to me.

CatfishBilly:

All science is trying to do with prayers is to determine its efficacy. The mechanism of action is of no concern.

Now, prayers in the Bible is described as goal oriented. Ask and it shall be given to you, Seek and you shall find, Knock and the door would be opened and whatnot.

So trying to study prayers within those goal oriented parameters isn't out of place, don't you think so?

true bro, even their Hole-ly BuyBull reiterated it many times, Jesus never emphasised anything more than that, let's look at those verses

And Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22)

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20)

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25)

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14)

With all these passages claiming that if they have even the smallest amount of faith (Matthew 17:20 For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.)then whatever you ask for in prayer will be granted,

there are obviously only a few options available for Christians to chose after taking a honest look at the lives of Christians and seeing their prayers fail most of the time:

1) the Bible is wrong, Jesus never said these things

2) the Bible is right, Jesus said these things but Jesus was wrong

3) the Bible is right, Jesus said these things but Jesus lied

4) no one who prayed for anything that actually required god's intervention, like amputees had any faith

5) the Bible is just a collection of myths & fables & Yahweh, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Satan doesn't exist

CatfishBilly:

All science is trying to do with prayers is to determine its efficacy. The mechanism of action is of no concern.

Now, prayers in the Bible is described as goal oriented. Ask and it shall be given to you, Seek and you shall find, Knock and the door would be opened and whatnot.

So trying to study prayers within those goal oriented parameters isn't out of place, don't you think so?

It is out of place!

You cannot exclude prayers from HOW they are received.

That's where rationality comes in for science. Prayer is not restricted to what you ask for because there are SELFISH PRAYERS, GREEDY PRAYERS, DESTRUCTIVE PRAYERS, PRAYER TIMING IN REFERENCE TO GODS WILL, etc

Then there is THE WILL OF GOD .

Where does the will of God overlap with these prayer patterns? Which meets the criteria already provided by God Himself? That is one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit so He can help us pray ACCORDING to God's will. Can science quantify the Holy Spirit?

You cannot study a car while ignoring the tiniest parts of the car which make all bigger parts work.

dalaman:


[s]You know a 10 years old that owns are car, yet you are laughing at others. How the irony escapes you is still a mystery to me.[/s]

Hehehe
Are you pained?

spacetacular:


We have a lot of common grounds sir affinity would show that we do a lot more than we both think. I love Bertrands works and his sound reasoning most times.

I have a few of his books such as
Why I Am Not a Christian and Religion & Science plus a few others. I read the history of western philosophy briefly (not completely) and that was about 4years ago and come to think of it I cannot fathom why I didn't finish it.

please where can i get hard copy of these books??

realtem:
please where can i get hard copy of these books??

Amazon

felixomor:


Hehehe
Are you pained?

Why should I be pained? Just laughing at you and your ways.

spacetacular:



It is out of place!

You cannot exclude prayers from HOW they are received.

That's where rationality comes in for science. Prayer is not restricted to what you ask for because there are SELFISH PRAYERS, GREEDY PRAYERS, DESTRUCTIVE PRAYERS, PRAYER TIMING IN REFERENCE TO GODS WILL, etc

Then there is THE WILL OF GOD .

Where does the will of God overlap with these prayer patterns? Which meets the criteria already provided by God Himself? That is one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit so He can help us pray ACCORDING to God's will. Can science quantify the Holy Spirit?

You cannot study a car while ignoring the tiniest parts of the car which make all bigger parts work.

With all the Bible passages quoted by hopeful.landlord above, it's obvious that prayers are designed for our own personal use, to solve our personal problems.

If everything happens as the will of God, that kind of renders prayers redundant since no matter our prayers, it's God's will that would eventually happen.
Though I don't agree with your position because the Bible was explicit about what prayers are for.

CatfishBilly:

With all the Bible passages quoted by hopeful.landlord above, it's obvious that prayers are designed for our own personal use, to solve our personal problems.

If everything happens as the will of God, that kind of renders prayers redundant since no matter our prayers, it's God's will that would eventually happen.
Though I don't agree with your position because the Bible was explicit about what prayers are for.

They've made sort of a desultory hobby out of collecting excuses for their god's failures. "He was distracted by the fall of a sparrow" is one of my favorites. And of course there's the old "mysterious ways," "god's plans," "he's in a better place," "We can't know the mind of god." "He had to let the farmers' crops wither because a Sunday school picnic needed sunshine;" "We didn't pray hard enough/ sincerely enough/ loudly enough/ or in big enough numbers."

I scoff when we are admonished to pray for peace. Tell me, when is the last time that worked?

A few years ago, about 22 coal miners got trapped in a mine accident. Of course the families and community were praying like mad that the miners would be saved. When the initial report came out (erroneously) that the miners were alive, everybody was shouting hallelujah, and it was surely proof of the power of prayer. Then the truth came out. All the miners had died.

I always wonder how those people excused god's failure. I have mostly avoided asking that question out of sympathy for their loss. Didn't want to add to their pain. I wonder of any of them questioned their faith at any point.

You would have the same success praying to a milk jug as you do praying to god -- the milk jug sometimes answers your prayer the way you want to, sometimes not and sometimes the answer is delayed. See the problem here? If things turn out the way you want them to, you say it was because you prayed. If not, it's because god knows what's best and you didn't pray for the right thing. Or, if it happens 10 years later you say god answered your prayer, it was just delayed. This is nonsense. You would have the exact same effect doing nothing.

spacetacular:


Amazon

Okay, thanks. I thought there were local retailers that sell these kinda books.

CatfishBilly:

With all the Bible passages quoted by hopeful.landlord above, it's obvious that prayers are designed for our own personal use, to solve our personal problems.

If everything happens as the will of God, that kind of renders prayers redundant since no matter our prayers, it's God's will that would eventually happen.
Though I don't agree with your position because the Bible was explicit about what prayers are for.

I deliberately ignored mr hopefullandlords comment based on the one above. You see when you wish to learn and understand a thing do not spite it or throw in ridicule just to convince yourself that the mere thought of it is ridiculous.

His manner of approach has already been foreseen and documented in scripture thus,

"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise".

So I know that the spiritual methodology of prayer was deliberately designed by God so no man can hold it's explanation or be able to rationalise it's workings.

Scripture is a blueprint and not the 3D reality. The reality is now where the Holy Spirit comes in to guide, remind, receive from God and reveal to us plus keep us in God's will.

You were wrong to assert that Prayers are personal. No it is not restricted. It is personal in Love and outwardly expressive in Love and selflessness towards others. Except you wish to tell me that when you were a Christian you carried out prayers of hate and vengeance and prayers of selfishness which would explain why you did not receive. You asked AMISS!

This is the foundation for prayer below found in Romans 12

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;

12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

The Holy Spirit is the one who actualises all this in us for without Him we can do nothing. Love is a burden to those who lack the LOVE SPREADER aka the Holy Spirit. But when you Have him, Love becomes your Prayer Trigger.

spacetacular:



I deliberately ignored mr hopefullandlords comment based on the one above. You see when you wish to learn and understand a thing do not spite it or throw in ridicule just to convince yourself that the mere thought of it is ridiculous.

His manner of approach has already been foreseen and documented in scripture thus,

"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise".

So I know that the spiritual methodology of prayer was deliberately designed by God so no man can hold it's explanation or be able to rationalise it's workings.

Scripture is a blueprint and not the 3D reality. The reality is now where the Holy Spirit comes in to guide, remind, receive from God and reveal to us plus keep us in God's will.

You were wrong to assert that Prayers are personal. No it is not restricted. It is personal in Love and outwardly expressive in Love and selflessness towards others. Except you wish to tell me that when you were a Christian you carried out prayers of hate and vengeance and prayers of selfishness which would explain why you did not receive. You asked AMISS!

This is the foundation for prayer below found in Romans 12

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;

12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

The Holy Spirit is the one who actualises all this in us for without Him we can do nothing. Love is a burden to those who lack the LOVE SPREADER aka the Holy Spirit. But when you Have him, Love becomes your Prayer Trigger.

In of my better threads on Nairaland, I shared a story of a mother who prayed for 12 hours non stop for the health of her baby. The child died.
Is that asking amiss?

lolz funny people ......


prayer experiment



were they expecting prayer experiment to work before ...................



if they claimed it worked .... it's also a problem


you can't use science to explain the efficacy of spiritual things



if NIGERIAN atheists want to pretend let them say they don't believe spiritual things exist ......

or they don't know herbalists potency or they deny witches too.
....

spacetacular:


Hey JackBizzle do you remember I quoted from Bertrand Russell and you rubbished it. Here you see him being mentioned again by someone who obviously knows much more than you do.

Read up and stop clowning.

You misunderstood Betrand Russel.

Anyone can quote. Understanding the meaning is the key