Tasma:


Again I say no. In fact your argument supports superstition perfectly. I can keep a rabbits foot in my pocket when going for an interview. I may be totally unprepared for the interview and still do well. That in no way or form concludes that the rabbit foot is the reason for my success! I stated earlier that it's lack of humility to say we know everything, things happen that we may find hard to explain. Attributing things you cannot explain to a supernatural cause is unnecessary and to some extent probably even lazy. Better to work at trying to understand when that happened.

awesomeJ:


if you heat up a piece of metal in a furnace, and it melts, wouldn't it be silly of you to say, you need to find out why it melted. isn't it obvious that it was your heating it up that caused it to melt?

At some point you must have been a student, and you must have known that for some few students to have better grades than some others, something must have spelt the difference. If a student attended every class and read very very well for the exam, and that was all he did, wouldn't it be silly of you to argue with him when he says he got his success via hardwork? If I on the other hand didn't do any reading but merely asked someone to make me pass excellently, and yet as difficult as it could have been, I passed, isn't it silly for you to argue the fact that I said it was due to my request that I passed. Now don't just quote me with some long notes, tell me what in your own mind could have been the cause of my success.

An army Brigadier says to his battalion "Fire", and you're claiming " we can't conclude" that the reason why the army shot the ammunition was the Brigadier's instruction. You're just being over skeptical.

Tell me what you think could have wrought that instant healing I mentioned of Kenneth Hagin.

If you can't provide these two explanations I have demanded, or you'd want to say something like "I don't know, but it's not your letters" Then obviously, your comments wouldn't be deserving any response. So you may just decide against making them to save yourself some time.

budaatum:

I was pulling up my skirt. I did not want anyone to see!

Tasma:


Read my comments above, if I heat metal I can prove that I heated it, if I read for an exam I can prove that as well. Your issue seems to be that things that are hard to explain happen. Five people are in a car, one prayed to get to his destination safely. There is an accident and just that one guy survives without a scratch while all others die. Point is it can happen, stranger things have happened! Attributing his survival to his prayer is not automatic. He could as well have died, someone who did not pray at all could have survived. This incidents happen every day. People recovering from terminal diseases occur ask any doctor. Some pray, some dont, some believe in God, others don't. There is no way to ascertain that it was their prayer that was the cause of the recovery because there are also millions that prayed for their recovery and did not get it. So unless you saying God is simply choosing to answer some prayers and ignore some... which would lead back to my point that you cannot prove it. You may want to believe it but that's a far cry from proving it.

vaxx:
first of all, obatala, ogun or any other energies are not GODS. they are orisha. when you put it into yoruba syllable , it goes like this ori- ti- a- sha...meaning ,the head we specifically selected ...we do not worship orisha rather we honor and acknowledge them ,our cuilture
are characterized by a deep sense of the interdependence of all life. every life form and element of Nature has an inner soul force – including rivers, rocks, clouds, metals, flowers, thunder, and the wind. These natural energies that comprise the Universe are symbolically represented by Orisa . Each Orisa has its own specific function. Humans are in constant communication with Orisa energy, whether we’re aware of it or not. for instance, te-ki- ina- lo- Ji(press and let fire wake it) known as technology in English are simply a combination of iron, steel,metal and human ability to convert fire to electricity, coal to gas and so some other interesting things we do with fire.. so you can not defile this natural energy and go Scot free, the ogun and shango, are the symbolic representation of technology,(i.e. the inner soul in them)cars ,phones, electricity even cutlass or any other product of technology comes with their taboo, check the manual instructions, if you defile them, they will work against you... it work till today, as it work in the past no one defile the orisha and go Scot free.

Obatala is the symbolic representation of purity and cleanliness , No one defiles purity and cleanliness without facing the consequence.

budaatum:
The Orolu Kingdom is 8 hours away from London, door to door at that. A blink of the eye and like one single step for the Son of the King of the Heavens. If they sneeze in the Kingdom, the Son hears it wherever she is. I do confess that modern technology helps.

I never expected you to understand anything I wrote, so your response hardly surprises me. Someone referred to you as Analice. Is that really you. It would explain a lot. Please note that your right to have your questions to buda answered has been suspended, though buda has the right to ignore this rule at any time she wishes.

budaatum:

I was pulling up my skirt. I did not want anyone to see!

budaatum:

There you go again with the snideness. Can't you help yourself?!


"You wait and see" Is what Obatala and Ogun people would say too.


You don't know anything about me. That's why I am here laughing.

My maternal great grandparents were Ifa Priests in the Orolu Kingdom. And because of it we are steeped in the Ifa awo. My paternal grandfather, the Basorun, was an Obatala Priest. Obatala is the Supreme God in Orolu Land. You might from this understand that I have pedigree.

Whenever I arrive in the Orolu Kingdom, I do a walk around the town as part of my os[h]a (I've added the h so it reads well), and I must start after 2am, for that is when the Spirits that ensure Orolu prospers roam around the Kingdom. The walk takes me past Saint John's - the first church in town, past the first mosque and past the Palace in front of which stands the I Bo Osa (Osa Shrine), and takes approximately 1.5 - 2 hours. And on it, I will meet nightwatchmen, who are Ogun worshippers, as nightwatchmen usually are in Yoruba land.

They will shout out, "Iwo wo lo nlo ni ibe yen?" (Who is it that goes there?). And I will respond, "Emi" (Me). They would ask, "Ta ni iwo?" (Who is 'me'?) and I will respond, "Emi Basorun". (Me, Basorun). You see, I'm not the Basorun, my uncle is, but we Basoruns have this thing that every Omo Basorun (Child of Basorun) refers to themselves as Basorun so when you see one, you have seen us all. They will then respond, "Te le jeje o, S'Orun" ('Thread on the ground softly, you the Heavenly Doer'), plus some other things. I will respond with the appropriate response, and go on my way.

Now, if you know anything about Yoruba land, you would know that my walk has a meaning to those who are in the know. What amazes them is that Omo Baba Ilu Oyinbo, ("The Child of the Old Man from London" - the old man, having spent years abroad and who appears to have practically lost all knowledge of the local culture), first, knows the role of his forefathers (walking around town in the middle of the night conversing with the Spirits and ensuring they keep on making the Kingdom prosper). Second, that Omo Baba Ilu Oyinbo is brave enough to take on this role (The middle of the night in the Orolu Kingdom is when the Gods send the Spirits to place a mark on those who will depart from earth that day so, if you don't want to die, stay indoors!). And third, that Omo Baba Ilu Oyinbo knows the right things to say when the Spirits accost him on his walk (not knowing the right words is like not knowing the password, and if you get it wrong the Spirits will just make you depart from earth that very moment!). You might understand why, part of our response in the dialogue is the phrase "Ilu a toro o" (There will be peace and prosperity in the land o).

As Omo Basorun, it is my duty to go up into the heavens and bring light to my people. And the only way I can personally defy the Gods of the land is by me not performing the duty assigned to me by the Gods. And if I do not perform my duty, which is not just walking around town in the middle of the night but also going up into the heavens and bringing Light to my Kingdom, I, buda will die. But I like performing my duty, so buda, lives!


I hope from what I've said above that you would understand me when I say, in the old days, the Gods will tell the likes of myself to take those who defy them to the bottom of the river and bash their heads in and use their skulls to drink sekete. But like human sacrifices, which we did because our Gods required it, we do no more because we are not so stupid anymore. And since we, the doers of the errands of our Gods no more do that which we claimed our Gods told us to do, they, our Gods, have lost their potency to punish those who defy them. Now, they have learnt to forgive many times and make different demands of us.

But besides that, Omo Basorun (It means "Son of the King of the Heavens", in case you do not know), is not able to defy his father, 'The King of the Heavens'. And if anyone is bold enough to falsely accuse him of such a crime, the Son of the King of the Heavens will go up into the Heavens, get permission from his Father, The King of the Heavens, to blot out the light and the Kingdom will be in darkness!

My point is that my beliefs are irrelevant. When I am in Rome I am a Roman, And when I am in the Orolu Kingdom, I am Omo Basorun, the Son of the King of the Heavens who goes up to his Father, the King of the Heavens, from where he brings Light into the Orolu Kingdom.

budaatum:

I was pulling up my skirt. I did not want anyone to see!

ScienceWatch:
Thanks for the language lessons. It helped me appreciate the deeper spiritual lesson you are sharing here.

I disagree with your point that your beliefs are irrelevant because you happen to be in Rome.
In spiritual reality. You are always Omo Basurun.

vaxx:
ensure you wear undies so that the punana will not be exposed when your skirt is finally lifted... it is good to reply you back in your terminology, you understand it better

awesomeJ:


I want to continue in this convo, but first if you're saying it wasn't my prayer that made me pass, then explain what you think the cause was.

Take your big bang guys for instance, they didn't just say "The universe has no creator" they at least made an attempt in explaining that there was a bang. The probability of that being true is zero anyways, but they at least tried.
So why not follow suit.
Why was I able to pass an exam that I did nothing but pray about, whereas several other folks in my class failed, and those who also passed, did so by their awesome efforts. Make a try bro.

budaatum:

Listen to yourself heaping praise on me. I am so touched that my eyes mist over!

My beliefs are very relevant, to me, wherever I am. While I may appear to observers to be a Roman when I am in Rome, I am still buda atum, Omo Basorun, the Son of the King of the Heavens, wherever I may be, underneath my toga..

You, for one, know how my beliefs influence and motivate my bringing light from heaven. But just let me try convincing others that my beliefs are literally true and watch people ask me if I use a bucket or a suitcase to carry the sun from the heavens to the Orolu Kingdom. You may be aware of another who also claimed to be the Son of the King of Heavens. Do the words "Crucify him! Crucify him!!" sound familar? That's what people of this world do when they think you are asking them to see things as one does. They can't take it so they shut you up.

My beliefs should not be so relevant to others, is what I would like to be understood please. My beliefs are very relevant to me or else I would not believe them.

I believe you have been thinking, by the way. Missed you!

awesomeJ:


I want to continue in this convo, but first if you're saying it wasn't my prayer that made me pass, then explain what you think the cause was.

Take your big bang guys for instance, they didn't just say "The universe has no creator" they at least made an attempt in explaining that there was a bang. The probability of that being true is zero anyways, but they at least tried.
So why not follow suit.
Why was I able to pass an exam that I did nothing but pray about, whereas several other folks in my class failed, and those who also passed, did so by their awesome efforts. Make a try bro.

vaxx:
ensure you wear undies so that the punana will not be exposed when your skirt is finally lifted... it is good to reply you back in your terminology, you understand it better

Seun:

You're right. When an atheist says "there is no X", where X could be God, Satan, or Angel Gabriel, it's shorthand for "there is probably no X" or "there is no credible evidence that X exists". Some versions of God definitely don't exist, e.g. the all-loving, all-powerful God who allows children to be abducted, tortured, abused and brutally murdered, allows babies to have cancer, and will punish most people infinitely for finite crimes.

Gggg102:
in some old threads, I've seen atheist argue that atheism is the lack of belief in god.

they claim that they are atheists not because they 'believe there is no god' but because they 'do not believe there is god'

if it is so, this means they allow a possibility of the existence of god, and hence cannot assert that there is no god.

for example, John tells Bayo that David won a million Naira.

if Bayo states that this never happened, he is being affirmative and he is so sure that it never happened.

if Bayo states that he does not believe it happened, he is allowing a possibility of the event happening because a fact remains a fact regardless of belief (or unbelief). Bayo by virtue of his unbelief agrees that it is possible, but he does not think it happened.

if John repeated this claim to Seun, Bayo cannot say authoritatively that 'this is not true' but can only express his doubt.

for Bayo to state that John's statement is untrue, he has to have be present when the event was said to happen. but he only received information from John and can only disbelieve, allowing a possibility of the statement being true.

therefore atheist by their definition agree that god possibly exists, but only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.
they can't assert that there is no god.



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dalaman
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