₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
This is Romans 13:7......

Render to all their dues: to the one who calls for the tax, the tax; to the one who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to the one who calls for fear, such fear; to the one who calls for honor, such honor

let me rephrase this to see how well it fit


JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION should render to all their DUES: to the one who calls for the TAX, the TAX; who collects the TAX ( SATAN'S ORGANIZATION) to the one who calls for the TRIBUTE, the TRIBUTE: (were such tribute be requested from SATAN'S ORGANIZATION):


now the comedy part of this scripture to the one who calls for FEAR, such FEAR: JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION should be in fear of SATAN'S ORGANIZATION to the one who calls for such HONOR such HONOR, JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION should equally HONOR SATAN'S ORGANIZATION.


Luke 2: 1 - 6........

Now in those days a decree went out from CAESAR AU·GUSʹTUS for all the inhabited earth to be REGISTERED. 2 (This first registration took place when QUI·RINʹI·US was GOVERNOR of SYRIA.) 3 And all the people went to be registered, each one to his own city. 4 Of course, Joseph also went up from Galʹi·lee, from the city of Nazʹa·reth, into Ju·deʹa, to David’s city, which is called Bethʹle·hem, because of his being a member of the house and family of David. 5 He went to get registered with Mary, who had been given him in marriage as promised and who was soon to give birth.

From the above and using the JW theology as captured still in that WATCHTOWER article JESUS parent got there marriage REGISTERED under SATAN'S ORGANIZATION.

When Jesus grew up he was equally asked which ORGANIZATION will he support Jehovah's or Satan's? All in that article.

Maximus69: Who gave Joseph and Mary their census certificate?

Achorladey: You should know by now if it's the PAGAN ROMAN GOVERNMENT one of SATAN'S VISIBLE ORGANIZATION or GOD'S ANOINTED KING IN JERUSALEM.

Maximus69: God's anointed king in Jerusalem! Romans 13:7

Achorladey: Which one is GOD'S ANOINTED KING in Jerusalem when Jesus was born. You mean HEROD was God's anointed king in Jerusalem then or what?

Anyway I am still thinking about all this!

Any King on the Throne in Jerusalem represents Zion!
If you're my spiritual brother you should know that.
Well since your mind is not with those that will teach you how are you going to grasp it
Herod the great sent soldiers to kill all the boys because he knew very well that he is occupying the throne of David [God's anointed king]
You claim you knew everything about JWs but see simple things that i a new convert could easily understand yet it eludes your intellect!
And you're claiming to be my brother!

@rottennaija
It is good and reasonable from the standpoint of the true God if you desert faithless people no matter how they're related to you! You don't need to fear their grey hair or honour them if they're trying to force you to go and worship the false gods. In fact the word of God said 'stone idolaters to death', therefore if you're having strong feelings for these faithless people to the extent you can't break away from their idolatry due to family ties then Jesus will DISOWN you! Matthew 10:37
Your Parents remains your parents and you can't easily replace them, so you'll keep in touch with them to help them out of false religion because if they die in idolatry they will perish! John 3:16-18 compared to Romans 10:1-4
But it's meaningless and hopeless when you leave those you cherish so much inside idolatry at home and start worrying yourself over outsiders who are practicing exactly the same thing your own people are doing at home!
So if you're damn sure that JWs aren't doing things right, you must first make a research to know the group that's doing the right thing then DIRECT, SHOW, POINT, TELL your family members at home what you discovered. Then you'll be free from blood guilt if they stubbornly ignore the warnings.
You can't just start fighting with people in a sinking boat because the boat is sinking, complaining bitterly about the situation whereas there is no other safer vessel around. All your agitations will certainly sound insane!

Maximus69:
@rottennaija
It is good and reasonable from the standpoint of the true God if you desert faithless people no matter how they're related to you! You don't need to fear their grey hair or honour them if they're trying to force you to go and worship the false gods. In fact the word of God said 'stone idolaters to death', therefore if you're having strong feelings for these faithless people to the extent you can't break away from their idolatry due to family ties then Jesus will DISOWN you! Matthew 10:37
Your Parents remains your parents and you can't easily replace them, so you'll keep in touch with them to help them out of false religion because if they die in idolatry they will perish! John 3:16-18 compared to Romans 10:1-4
But it's meaningless and hopeless when you leave those you cherish so much inside idolatry at home and start worrying yourself over outsiders who are practicing exactly the same thing your own people are doing at home!
So if you're damn sure that JWs aren't doing things right, you must first make a research to know the group that's doing the right thing then DIRECT, SHOW, POINT, TELL your family members at home what you discovered. Then you'll be free from blood guilt if they stubbornly ignore the warnings.
You can't just start fighting with people in a sinking boat because the boat is sinking, complaining bitterly about the situation whereas there is no other safer vessel around. All your agitations will certainly sound insane!

First, the mosaic law said stoning idolaters. I'm not under it. Second, I made a decision, one they are not happy about, one that has led to threat, suspicion, name calling etc. It's not everything about that I'll share online. So keep your peace.

What I post is for information purposes. If it were readily available, I probably would not have made the decision to join the religion. It has help many and will help many prospective members. Additionally, for those that has reach a cross road, seeing so many wrongs committed in the name of God, not knowing where to turn, living with a mistaken idea there is no salvation for them should they leave the religion as they as made to believe, at that time of crisis of conscience, what they had chosen to ignore, all the scriptures they see misapplied and taken out of context, but willfully ignored same, it will mean something to them.

So, keep your peace.

Maximus69:
Any King on the Throne in Jerusalem represents Zion!
If you're my spiritual brother you should know that.
Well since your mind is not with those that will teach you how are you going to grasp it
Herod the great sent soldiers to kill all the boys because he knew very well that he is occupying the throne of David [God's anointed king]
You claim you knew everything about JWs but see simple things that i a new convert could easily understand yet it eludes your intellect!
And you're claiming to be my brother!

The way you are going, someday you will either be called an apostate or will lay claim to the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

rottennaija:
The way you are going, someday you will either be called an apostate or will lay claim to the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Whatever i say is in tune with what my TEACHERS [GB] taught me, however when i go wrong i won't hesitate to make a u~turn should the GB correct my outlook!
So i'm still their student no matter what!
I'll rather remain their student than being a fugitive beast of no nation claiming i know something when i can't point to any visible group that's unitedly worshiping an invisible spirit being!
If God is invisible and there is NO visible worshipers UNITEDLY worshiping him,then the atheists are right in their ideology!

rottennaija:
First, the mosaic law said stoning idolaters. I'm not under it. Second, I made a decision, one they are not happy about, one that has led to threat, suspicion, name calling etc. It's not everything about that I'll share online. So keep your peace.

What I post is for information purposes. If it were readily available, I probably would not have made the decision to join the religion. It has help many and will help many prospective members. Additionally, for those that has reach a cross road, seeing so many wrongs committed in the name of God, not knowing where to turn, living with a mistaken idea there is no salvation for them should they leave the religion as they as made to believe, at that time of crisis of conscience, what they had chosen to ignore, all the scriptures they see misapplied and taken out of context, but willfully ignored same, it will mean something to them.

So, keep your peace.

I love your concluding words! 'Keep your peace'
Undoubtedly you can discern that you'll find PEACE in doing what i type but as you've said. My PEACE will surely return to me! Matthew 10:13
So the case is closed!

rottennaija:
The way you are going, someday you will either be called an apostate or will lay claim to the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Hmmmmmm I want to believe I get the sense of your response. Are these synonymous somehow or antonymous? Don't bother to give me a response on it, I will gladly contemplate about it on my own.

achorladey:
Hmmmmmm I want to believe I get the sense of your response. Are these synonymous somehow or antonymous? Don't bother to give me a response on it, I will gladly contemplate about it on my own.

Well, I know you said don't bother to respond. I just want to contribute more. Already, he has so many ideas that are contrary to watchtower teachings and he is so dogmatic on them. Someday, he will be called apostate when he eventually lay claims to being Jesus or the GB representative in Nigeria

rottennaija:
Well, I know you said don't bother to respond. I just want to contribute more. Already, he has so many ideas that are contrary to watchtower teachings and he is so dogmatic on them. Someday, he will be called apostate when he eventually lay claims to being Jesus or the GB representative in Nigeria

You were fortunate to be born into the group, he[Maximus] accidentally got into it, you have your whole families in the group, he has nobody in the group except his own conscience tied to the truth.
JWs are just like every other group claiming Christians, i laughed when you asked Maximus to tell you the achievements of this group that distinguish them from those he was complaining about.
JWs have a well built organization of people from divers countries, tribes and tongues, they have made all these people brothers and sisters, their organization went as far as making translations of publications NOT only the Bible but hundreds of printed publications to reach people from all lands even the blind and deaf. They have succeeded in making all their members forgo military services and political appointments that has led to the destruction of lives of so many innocent people. They have helped millions to keep their marriages and raise God fearing children, They have trained all their dedicated followers to be law abiding.
Your own parents saw all these and have remained in this organization, only for you to grow up and start saying nonsense against such organization simply because you're seeing religious groups with no value teaching their followers almost nothing worthwhile and you can't even vouch for any of these,yet you want to start raising your tongue against this organization for nothing other than thinking you've gotten a better understanding of the book that this people have used for over a century to establish a group you yourself can't vouch for any other that can stand their achievement!
Well i was a Muslim and i saw all of this and i really wish all my people are members of JWs but i have to live with the memories that they're all outside there bowing to a monument in Saudi Arabia without any tangible virtues deed known for the so called religion.
So you're fortunate my friend for coming out of such a family of worshipers engaging in the sacred services of the one and only true God!

TATIME:
You were fortunate to be born into the group, he[Maximus] accidentally got into it, you have your whole families in the group, he has nobody in the group except his own conscience tied to the truth.
JWs are just like every other group claiming Christians, i laughed when you asked Maximus to tell you the achievements of this group that distinguish them from those he was complaining about.
JWs have a well built organization of people from divers countries, tribes and tongues, they have made all these people brothers and sisters, their organization went as far as making translations of publications NOT only the Bible but hundreds of printed publications to reach people from all lands even the blind and deaf. They have succeeded in making all their members forgo military services and political appointments that has led to the destruction of lives of so many innocent people. They have helped millions to keep their marriages and raise God fearing children, They have trained all their dedicated followers to be law abiding.
Your own parents saw all these and have remained in this organization, only for you to grow up and start saying nonsense against such organization simply because you're seeing religious groups with no value teaching their followers almost nothing worthwhile and you can't even vouch for any of these,yet you want to start raising your tongue against this organization for nothing other than thinking you've gotten a better understanding of the book that this people have used for over a century to establish a group you yourself can't vouch for any other that can stand their achievement!
Well i was a Muslim and i saw all of this and i really wish all my people are members of JWs but i have to live with the memories that they're all outside there bowing to a monument in Saudi Arabia without any tangible virtues deed known for the so called religion.
So you're fortunate my friend for coming out of such a family of worshipers engaging in the sacred services of the one and only true God!

You can create your own realities. I was born into it, baptised into it. A decision I now regret. There is nothing fortunate about that. Heck, you seem to know how fortunate I am when I know it was a serious misunderstanding and mistake.

Maybe, just maybe you will also know how fortunate I am to be owning a tecno phone while it's a scrap to those who know quality phones.


My dear, don't tell me how fortunate I am for i know if I am and if I am not. If the religion has given you a sense of security, a purpose, a belonging, hope! Probably an employment and a measure of power and control over others, I see none of them in my life.

The day I realized it was another falsehood masquerading as truth, it lost all its luster. If you are happy with them, good for you. Members of cults are also happy about their brotherhood. But don't come here and see how fortunate they others are when they see failure, man's inhumanity to man, hypocrisy, pharisaic behavior, murder in the name of God, family breaking, hatred etc

I am happy where I am. I am, really and I am proud of the storm I have been able to whether. Despite intimidation, persecution, backbiting, defamation etc. At least, if not for anything else, I stood for something.
It only you that must know, must feel how unhappy I am because or I must be, because in your thought process, I must be really unfortunate and unhappy since I have left the jw religion.

TATIME:
You were fortunate to be born into the group, he[Maximus] accidentally got into it, you have your whole families in the group, he has nobody in the group except his own conscience tied to the truth.
JWs are just like every other group claiming Christians, i laughed when you asked Maximus to tell you the achievements of this group that distinguish them from those he was complaining about.
JWs have a well built organization of people from divers countries, tribes and tongues, they have made all these people brothers and sisters, their organization went as far as making translations of publications NOT only the Bible but hundreds of printed publications to reach people from all lands even the blind and deaf. They have succeeded in making all their members forgo military services and political appointments that has led to the destruction of lives of so many innocent people. They have helped millions to keep their marriages and raise God fearing children, They have trained all their dedicated followers to be law abiding.
Your own parents saw all these and have remained in this organization, only for you to grow up and start saying nonsense against such organization simply because you're seeing religious groups with no value teaching their followers almost nothing worthwhile and you can't even vouch for any of these,yet you want to start raising your tongue against this organization for nothing other than thinking you've gotten a better understanding of the book that this people have used for over a century to establish a group you yourself can't vouch for any other that can stand their achievement!
Well i was a Muslim and i saw all of this and i really wish all my people are members of JWs but i have to live with the memories that they're all outside there bowing to a monument in Saudi Arabia without any tangible virtues deed known for the so called religion.
So you're fortunate my friend for coming out of such a family of worshipers engaging in the sacred services of the one and only true God!

On achievements! You have listed what you religion has achieved and it appears really is impressive. I'm surprised you didn't include MEPS.

Anyway, when I look into history, especially the 3rd century, I can only be impressed on who Jehovah blessed and used the church fathers, giving them his spirit to select the books that will then become part of the Holy Bible we are opportune to read to. They had series of meetings, deliberated before arriving at conclusions. Are you not so happy to have such a wonderful collection of works to read and praise God?

Few days ago, read on nairaland how a remote village had the Bible in their own language to read, which will further assist them in understanding and appreciating the gospel of our lord Jesus christ. Did you read the article? Were you not impressed?

Equally impressive is how the churches in China are not renouncing their faith, irrespective of what the government are doing to suppress their faith in christ, demolishing their buildings, putting some in prison. Are you not impressed by what Jesus is accomplishing?

rottennaija:
On achievements! You have listed what you religion has achieved and it appears really is impressive. I'm surprised you didn't include MEPS.

Anyway, when I look into history, especially the 3rd century, I can only be impressed on who Jehovah blessed and used the church fathers, giving them his spirit to select the books that will then become part of the Holy Bible we are opportune to read to. They had series of meetings, deliberated before arriving at conclusions. Are you not so happy to have such a wonderful collection of works to read and praise God?

Few days ago, read on nairaland how a remote village had the Bible in their own language to read, which will further assist them in understanding and appreciating the gospel of our lord Jesus christ. Did you read the article? Were you not impressed?

Equally impressive is how the churches in China are not renouncing their faith, irrespective of what the government are doing to suppress their faith in christ, demolishing their buildings, putting some in prison. Are you not impressed by what Jesus is accomplishing?

You have sealed your heart to the truth. Who are those doing what you're saying now? What is the name of their group? Who knows them and how can interested persons join in accomplishing good deeds for the Lord? Jesus said there will be false leaders misleading people, are you saying there is no particular group Jesus is using in this last days?
Well Jehovah's Witnesses have a GROUP name and everyone knows the group, it is Satan that do things behind the scene without a group name that could be mentioned publicly. Jesus is a real king and his followers are real, with a real GROUP name that has made a great name for their God!

Maximus69:
@rottennaija
It is good and reasonable from the standpoint of the true God if you desert faithless people no matter how they're related to you! You don't need to fear their grey hair or honour them if they're trying to force you to go and worship the false gods. In fact the word of God said 'stone idolaters to death', therefore if you're having strong feelings for these faithless people to the extent you can't break away from their idolatry due to family ties then Jesus will DISOWN you! Matthew 10:37
Your Parents remains your parents and you can't easily replace them, so you'll keep in touch with them to help them out of false religion because if they die in idolatry they will perish! John 3:16-18 compared to Romans 10:1-4
But it's meaningless and hopeless when you leave those you cherish so much inside idolatry at home and start worrying yourself over outsiders who are practicing exactly the same thing your own people are doing at home!
So if you're damn sure that JWs aren't doing things right, you must first make a research to know the group that's doing the right thing then DIRECT, SHOW, POINT, TELL your family members at home what you discovered. Then you'll be free from blood guilt if they stubbornly ignore the warnings.
You can't just start fighting with people in a sinking boat because the boat is sinking, complaining bitterly about the situation whereas there is no other safer vessel around. All your agitations will certainly sound insane!

Maximus69: @rottennaija

Achorladey: rottennaija is definitely not insane and the fact you respond to his post shows rottennaija is not insane.

Maximus69: It is good and reasonable from the standpoint of the true God if you desert faithless people no matter how they're related to you!

Achorladey: What have we encouraged you to do all this while? Simple, LISTEN and LISTEN CAREFULLY. How many times will l state this, I don't know. The following scriptures does not support your position above. I have posted this and will repost it again, this time read and If possible ask someone close to you to read in order for you to LISTEN CAREFULLY.

1 Timothy 5:8 Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the FAITH and is WORSE than a person WITHOUT FAITH.

what does this tell us, Even those that are FAITHLESS don't desert their family members. So I don't know where you get this you "IT'S GOOD and REASONABLE from God's STANDPOINT".

Learn from the following scriptures Matthew 5: 43 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the WICKED and the GOOD and MAKES it rain on both the RIGHTEOUS and the UNRIGHTEOUS. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have?


Maximus69: You don't need to fear their grey hair or honour them if they're trying to force you to go and worship the false gods.

Achorladey: It's good rottennaija has duly informed you he is not an IDOL WORSHIPPERS and has Acts 5:29 states Obedience to God as ruler rather than men. Even when such men get ASSUMPTION APPOINTMENT from GOD.

Maximus69: In fact the word of God said 'stone idolaters to death', therefore if you're having strong feelings for these faithless people to the extent you can't break away from their idolatry due to family ties then Jesus will DISOWN you! Matthew 10:37

Achorladey: The key word here is IDOLATRY, one can retain family ties despite the whole member of the family being IDOLATERS because as long as the individual don't follow them to bow down to their IDOLS or do things relating to their IDOLS. Didn't the bible say that husband/wife that is a believer should not leave his/her unbelieving mate?

Maximus69: Your Parents remains your parents and you can't easily replace them, so you'll keep in touch with them to help them out of false religion because if they die in idolatry they will perish! John 3:16-18 compared to Romans 10:1-4

Achorladey: So why do you state initially for the need to break FAMILY TIES when you know they will get in touch. Do you think rottennaija must have equally reason alongside his family on all of the things posted here?

Maximus69: But it's MEANINGLESS and HOPELESS when you leave those you cherish so much inside idolatry at home and start worrying yourself over outsiders who are practicing exactly the same thing your own people are doing at home!

Achorladey: It's not meaningless and not hopeless, take a look at this scripture

Ecclesiastes 11:6.....Sow your seed in the MORNING and do not let your hand rest until the EVENING; for you do not KNOW which will have SUCCESS, whether this ONE or that ONE, or WHETHER they will BOTH do WELL.

I believe rottennaija must have equally had the opportunity to discuss all of this with those he shared family ties with just as he is doing here on this platform.

Maximus69: So if you're damn sure that JWs aren't doing THINGS RIGHT, you must first make a research to know the group that's doing the right thing then DIRECT, SHOW, POINT, TELL your family members at home what you discovered. Then you'll be free from blood guilt if they stubbornly ignore the warnings.

Achorladey: Was the thread about how to DIRECT, SHOW, POINT, TELL or make case for a BETTER GROUP? Had you been listening CAREFULLY you will have seen no one is RAISING one CHRISTIAN denomination above the other.
The situation has been about the WHOM not the WHERE.

Go back to rottennaija post on this thread he equally made a strong case for that. You have equally said there are many ASSUMPTIONS in the teachings of JWS, so is that not INDICTING them of not doing the RIGHT THING. Did Jesus TEACH USING ASSUMPTIONS or base their faith on ASSUMPTIONS?

Maximus69: You can't just start FIGHTING with PEOPLE in a sinking boat because the boat is sinking, complaining bitterly about the situation whereas there is no other safer vessel around. All your agitations will certainly sound insane!

Achorladey: The thread is about making JWS LISTEN and not about FIGHTING. Your records of NAME CALLING, TAGS, DEMEANING ADJECTIVES in native language and English you CONTINUOUSLY use when discussing is scattered all over this thread, yet no one is FIGHTING YOU. A slave of Christ doesn't need to fight.

Concerning your illustration you are very familiar with what happened to PETER about WALKING on water, so if your SHIP is SINKING what we are TELLING you TO DO is WALK ON WATER. WHO needs the SHIP when you can walk on WATER. IGBAGBO lo n je be.

So we don't need the SAFER VESSEL we will simply WALK on water. JESUS will hold our hands and WALK we WILL. Don't come back and tell me it sound INSANE. Take a look at this scripture.

Then he went into a house, 20 and again the crowd gathered, so that they were not able even to eat a meal. 21 But when his relatives heard about it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying: “HE HAS GONE OUT OF HIS MIND.

There are many things Jesus did that many think HE is INSANE.

TATIME:
You have sealed your heart to the truth. Who are those doing what you're saying now? What is the name of their group? Who knows them and how can interested persons join in accomplishing good deeds for the Lord? Jesus said there will be false leaders misleading people, are you saying there is no particular group Jesus is using in this last days?

Well Jehovah's Witnesses have a GROUP name and everyone knows the group, it is Satan that do things behind the scene without a group name that could be mentioned publicly. Jesus is a real king and his followers are real, with a real GROUP name that has made a great name for their God!

Lol... I can actually enumerate your contradictory statements. Jehovah's Witnesses have a group name. It is Satan who does things in the background, without name. If I start mentioning names, it would mean they belong to Jehovah since it is Satan that works on background with names.

Unfortunately for you, if I ask you what's the name of the group the Ethiopian eunuch joined after his converting? How about the one the Cornelius joined? Which group did the apostles John belong to? Can you mentioned them?

While the Bible mentions those apostles in Jerusalem! Other congregations in other places, has it mentioned those of Cornelius? Ethiopian Eunuch? How about the man in Luke 9:49,50? Where it reads

"Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."


Christianity world over is one body, all doing Christ work of gathering men for God. Giving them the Christian faith. Splinter groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mammon, Seventh days Adventist only see themselves as the only true religion. They have created their own scale of what to use to measure themselves.

When I mentioned those whom God used in the 3rd Century, I mentioned them because I have see God's favour on them. Without God using them, you would not have had the Bible.

Before Jehovah's Witnesses started looking for those to confuse with their own gospel of drawing me after themselves, many true Christians risk their lives to convert people from their traditional religion to the Christian faith, with the hope of living with Christ in heaven.

Do you need names of churches? I can only direct you to one name alone, which is Jesus Christ. He is the only way to salvation. With your faith in him, you will be saved. Churches are just vehicles to direct people to God and Christ, without them, God uses them or individual depending on the situation.

One such vehicle God is using in China is here
https://www.christianity.ca/page.aspx?pid=11173
Read for yourself the remarkable work this faithful disciples of Jesus is doing, even in the face of persecution, imprisonment.

And by the way, church simply mean congregation.

rottennaija:
Well, I know you said don't bother to respond. I just want to contribute more. Already, he has so many ideas that are contrary to watchtower teachings and he is so dogmatic on them. Someday, he will be called apostate when he eventually lay claims to being Jesus or the GB representative in Nigeria

nothing more to add.

Happy Easter Everyone.
Read This������

https:///2GqtHpi

rottennaija:
Lol... I can actually enumerate your contradictory statements. Jehovah's Witnesses have a group name. It is Satan who does things in the background, without name. If I start mentioning names, it would mean they belong to Jehovah since it is Satan that works on background with names.

Unfortunately for you, if I ask you what's the name of the group the Ethiopian eunuch joined after his converting? How about the one the Cornelius joined? Which group did the apostles John belong to? Can you mentioned them?

While the Bible mentions those apostles in Jerusalem! Other congregations in other places, has it mentioned those of Cornelius? Ethiopian Eunuch? How about the man in Luke 9:49,50? Where it reads

"Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."


Christianity world over is one body, all doing Christ work of gathering men for God. Giving them the Christian faith. Splinter groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mammon, Seventh days Adventist only see themselves as the only true religion. They have created their own scale of what to use to measure themselves.

When I mentioned those whom God used in the 3rd Century, I mentioned them because I have see God's favour on them. Without God using them, you would not have had the Bible.

Before Jehovah's Witnesses started looking for those to confuse with their own gospel of drawing me after themselves, many true Christians risk their lives to convert people from their traditional religion to the Christian faith, with the hope of living with Christ in heaven.

Do you need names of churches? I can only direct you to one name alone, which is Jesus Christ. He is the only way to salvation. With your faith in him, you will be saved. Churches are just vehicles to direct people to God and Christ, without them, God uses them or individual depending on the situation.

One such vehicle God is using in China is here
https://www.christianity.ca/page.aspx?pid=11173
Read for yourself the remarkable work this faithful disciples of Jesus is doing, even in the face of persecution, imprisonment.

And by the way, church simply mean congregation.

11 With reference to those divided religious organizations that make up Christendom, the issue of the Watch Tower magazine for February of 1884 (almost a century ago) said the following under the heading “Our Name”:

“New readers in all parts of the country are constantly inquiring: By what NAME do you call yourselves? Are you ‘Primitive Baptists’? Are you ‘Missionary Baptists’? Are you ‘Universalists’? Are you ‘Adventists’? Are you ‘Primitive Methodists’? etc., etc. We have several times tried to make clear our position, and now endeavor in a few words again to do so“We belong to NO earthly organization; hence, if you should NAME the entire list of sects, we should answer, No, to EACH and to ALL. We adhere only to the HEAVENLY ORGANIZATION​ —‘whose NAMES are WRITTEN in HEAVEN.’ ( Heb. 12:23; Luke 10:20 .) All the saints now living, or that have lived during this age, belonged to OUR CHURCH ORGANIZATION: such are all ONE Church, and there is NO OTHER recognized by the Lord. Hence any earthly organization which in the least interferes with this union of saints is contrary to the teachings of Scripture and opposed to the Lord’s will​—‘that they may be ONE.’ ( John 17:11 .)”

This to support your position above

achorladey:
11 With reference to those divided religious organizations that make up Christendom, the issue of the Watch Tower magazine for February of 1884 (almost a century ago) said the following under the heading “Our Name”:

“New readers in all parts of the country are constantly inquiring: By what NAME do you call yourselves? Are you ‘Primitive Baptists’? Are you ‘Missionary Baptists’? Are you ‘Universalists’? Are you ‘Adventists’? Are you ‘Primitive Methodists’? etc., etc. We have several times tried to make clear our position, and now endeavor in a few words again to do so“We belong to NO earthly organization; hence, if you should NAME the entire list of sects, we should answer, No, to EACH and to ALL. We adhere only to the HEAVENLY ORGANIZATION​ —‘whose NAMES are WRITTEN in HEAVEN.’ ( Heb. 12:23; Luke 10:20 .) All the saints now living, or that have lived during this age, belonged to OUR CHURCH ORGANIZATION: such are all ONE Church, and there is NO OTHER recognized by the Lord. Hence any earthly organization which in the least interferes with this union of saints is contrary to the teachings of Scripture and opposed to the Lord’s will​—‘that they may be ONE.’ ( John 17:11 .)”

This to support your position above

Let me guess you have read the book 'Animal Farm' ? The above quoted was before that animals evolved to the very tyrant they kicked out.

In explaining the Animal Farm spirit, the remarkable metamorphosis that take place, producing an almost complete reversal of position, one that prevails to this day? In the 1980s, Ron Frye, a former circuit overseer and a Witness for 33 years, having spent “years of agonizing” over the Watch Tower’s teaching as to its authority, did intensive research into its validity. Contrasting the past and the present, he wrote:

Today, more than a hundred years from Russell’s start, the Witnesses are outstandingly organization-minded. The organization always comes first. In the Watchtower of March 1, 1979, the article “Faith in Jehovah’s Victorious Organization” the expression “theocratic organization” appears fifteen times in just the first eleven paragraphs. This kind of mesmerizing repetition is constantly used by the Society to condition Jehovah’s Witnesses to think that it is wrong for them to question anything the Society ever published as truth. In contradiction to this attitude toward the organization, Russell and his early associates were actually anti-earthly organization.

As to what may have motivated such an “anti-earthly organization” attitude at that initial stage, Frye continues:

Now the antagonism which Russell had toward churches with a history is understandable. He was, after all, a religious maverick. His small group of followers were without an organizational history. They sought to minimize the absence of that lack of history by arguing that God did not have an on-going earthly organization—a monolithic, Christian congregation —that it was not God’s way of doing it. In this way Russell’s adherents could bring down in their own eyes those religions that did have an earthly history and could explain away their own lack of one.

And, in connection with the subject at hand, it is abundantly clear that Russell did not believe that God had on earth at that time an ‘1800-year-old faithful and discreet slave organization’— God’s earthly channel of communication. He did not find it nor did it find him. He and his associates had no fellowship with any existing organization and were in fact disdainful of all other association. They stoutly repudiated the idea that there was on earth a visible, earthly organization existing from Pentecost onward that one would have to identify with in order to serve God.

But today, a hundred years later, the descendants of the Bible Students of Russell’s movement argue the other way around, that it is necessary to be looking to a visible, earthly organization, namely, [that associated with] the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. That was not the position in the beginning. As the situation changed, so Jehovah’s Witnesses changed their arguments[b]. They argued just as strongly one way against organization at one time as they now argue strongly for organization. [/b]

Just as their perception of earthly organization was far different a hundred years ago from what it is today, so their view of Russell is far different today from what it was in the beginning. Apart from brief references to him from time to time, Russell for the most part is unknown to modern day Witnesses. His writings are not recommended reading nor are his many books any longer published by the very publishing house he established and endowed with his own money.

Yet here was a man whom, Jehovah’s Witnesses still argue, God used to revive the great teachings of Jesus and his apostles. Why don’t they study his books today in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses, even from a historical standpoint? Because much of it, if not most of it, would be considered heresy [apostasy] today.

rottennaija:
Let me guess you have read the book 'Animal Farm' ? The above quoted was before that animals evolved to the very tyrant they kicked out.

In explaining the Animal Farm spirit, the remarkable metamorphosis that take place, producing an almost complete reversal of position, one that prevails to this day? In the 1980s, Ron Frye, a former circuit overseer and a Witness for 33 years, having spent “years of agonizing” over the Watch Tower’s teaching as to its authority, did intensive research into its validity. Contrasting the past and the present, he wrote:

Today, more than a hundred years from Russell’s start, the Witnesses are outstandingly organization-minded. The organization always comes first. In the Watchtower of March 1, 1979, the article “Faith in Jehovah’s Victorious Organization” the expression “theocratic organization” appears fifteen times in just the first eleven paragraphs. This kind of mesmerizing repetition is constantly used by the Society to condition Jehovah’s Witnesses to think that it is wrong for them to question anything the Society ever published as truth. In contradiction to this attitude toward the organization, Russell and his early associates were actually anti-earthly organization.

As to what may have motivated such an “anti-earthly organization” attitude at that initial stage, Frye continues:

Now the antagonism which Russell had toward churches with a history is understandable. He was, after all, a religious maverick. His small group of followers were without an organizational history. They sought to minimize the absence of that lack of history by arguing that God did not have an on-going earthly organization—a monolithic, Christian congregation —that it was not God’s way of doing it. In this way Russell’s adherents could bring down in their own eyes those religions that did have an earthly history and could explain away their own lack of one.

And, in connection with the subject at hand, it is abundantly clear that Russell did not believe that God had on earth at that time an ‘1800-year-old faithful and discreet slave organization’— God’s earthly channel of communication. He did not find it nor did it find him. He and his associates had no fellowship with any existing organization and were in fact disdainful of all other association. They stoutly repudiated the idea that there was on earth a visible, earthly organization existing from Pentecost onward that one would have to identify with in order to serve God.

But today, a hundred years later, the descendants of the Bible Students of Russell’s movement argue the other way around, that it is necessary to be looking to a visible, earthly organization, namely, [that associated with] the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. That was not the position in the beginning. As the situation changed, so Jehovah’s Witnesses changed their arguments[b]. They argued just as strongly one way against organization at one time as they now argue strongly for organization. [/b]

Just as their perception of earthly organization was far different a hundred years ago from what it is today, so their view of Russell is far different today from what it was in the beginning. Apart from brief references to him from time to time, Russell for the most part is unknown to modern day Witnesses. His writings are not recommended reading nor are his many books any longer published by the very publishing house he established and endowed with his own money.

Yet here was a man whom, Jehovah’s Witnesses still argue, God used to revive the great teachings of Jesus and his apostles. Why don’t they study his books today in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses, even from a historical standpoint? Because much of it, if not most of it, would be considered heresy [apostasy] today.

Let me start by Saying I read ANIMAL FARM but I didn't really put my mind into it, but I do get the concept of what is in there.

I think George Orwell wrote another book titled ORWELLIAN, ORWELLIANISM or something related to that which carries good information about human institutions, organization and system.

Regarding RUSSELL it's no gain saying that were he to be alive today, he will have been kicked long ago out of "GOD'S ORGANIZATION".

achorladey:
Let me start by Saying I read ANIMAL FARM but I didn't really put my mind into it, but I do get the concept of what is in there.

I think George Orwell wrote another book titled ORWELLIAN, ORWELLIANISM or something related to that which carries good information about human institutions, organization and system.

Regarding RUSSELL it's no gain saying that were he to be alive today, he will have been kicked long ago out of "GOD'S ORGANIZATION".

That's only if he allow them to take over and control him. But as was evident when, he was the society, I don't think anyone would have had such power.

But speaking of this organization as it is presently, even if Jesus were to appear today, they would kick him out

rottennaija:
Lol... I can actually enumerate your contradictory statements. Jehovah's Witnesses have a group name. It is Satan who does things in the background, without name. If I start mentioning names, it would mean they belong to Jehovah since it is Satan that works on background with names.

Unfortunately for you, if I ask you what's the name of the group the Ethiopian eunuch joined after his converting? How about the one the Cornelius joined? Which group did the apostles John belong to? Can you mentioned them?

While the Bible mentions those apostles in Jerusalem! Other congregations in other places, has it mentioned those of Cornelius? Ethiopian Eunuch? How about the man in Luke 9:49,50? Where it reads

"Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."


Christianity world over is one body, all doing Christ work of gathering men for God. Giving them the Christian faith. Splinter groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mammon, Seventh days Adventist only see themselves as the only true religion. They have created their own scale of what to use to measure themselves.

When I mentioned those whom God used in the 3rd Century, I mentioned them because I have see God's favour on them. Without God using them, you would not have had the Bible.

Before Jehovah's Witnesses started looking for those to confuse with their own gospel of drawing me after themselves, many true Christians risk their lives to convert people from their traditional religion to the Christian faith, with the hope of living with Christ in heaven.

Do you need names of churches? I can only direct you to one name alone, which is Jesus Christ. He is the only way to salvation. With your faith in him, you will be saved. Churches are just vehicles to direct people to God and Christ, without them, God uses them or individual depending on the situation.

One such vehicle God is using in China is here
https://www.christianity.ca/page.aspx?pid=11173
Read for yourself the remarkable work this faithful disciples of Jesus is doing, even in the face of persecution, imprisonment.

And by the way, church simply mean congregation.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, Jesus formed a group out of his numerous disciples and called them Apostles. All his disciples are to follow the decisions made by the Apostles.
Today, there are thousands of different religious groups all claiming Christians so if you feel there's no need ascertaining the one following the footsteps of the Apostles, well over 8 million individuals [including your Papas and Mamas] think otherwise. You're free to go and worship anywhere you like but some are seeking righteousness and meekness, and a global group have emerged fulfilling that purpose!
The man performing in Jesus name, Ethiopian Eunuch and Cornelius must all join the group that is under the supervision of the Apostles! Before Jesus' death there is no need of joining a particular group because Jesus himself is still practicing Judaism, but after his death and resurrection,God anointed 120 disciples with God's holy spirit, whoever claims to be a Christian in any part of the earth can't operate independently of that group! So you can worship anywhere but if you're not operating under the supervision of the GB, you're not part of our happy global family! Go and meet your fellow rebellious groups, count us out!

rottennaija:
That's only if he allow them to take over and control him. But as was evident when, he was the society, I don't think anyone would have had such power.

But speaking of this organization as it is presently, even if Jesus were to appear today, they would kick him out

Then we have another full cycle of what the FLESHLY ISRAEL had done, the "SPIRITUAL ISRAEL" of God so to COIN have made REPETITION of it.

rottennaija:
That's only if he allow them to take over and control him. But as was evident when, he was the society, I don't think anyone would have had such power.

But speaking of this organization as it is presently, even if Jesus were to appear today, they would kick him out

Jesus formed a group and said whatever they bind or loosen on earth will be the same in heaven!
Sorry your ideology is not working because Jesus himself has a VISIBLE flock and all those those following him recognised that little flock, you can't be his follower if you're not in tune with Jesus' little flock! Luke 12:32

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm, Jesus formed a group out of his numerous disciples and called them Apostles. All his disciples are to follow the decisions made by the Apostles.
Today, there are thousands of different religious groups all claiming Christians so if you feel there's no need ascertaining the one following the footsteps of the Apostles, well over 8 million individuals [including your Papas and Mamas] think otherwise. You're free to go and worship anywhere you like but some are seeking righteousness and meekness, and a global group have emerged fulfilling that purpose!
The man performing in Jesus name, Ethiopian Eunuch and Cornelius must all join the group that is under the supervision of the Apostles! Before Jesus' death there is no need of joining a particular group because Jesus himself is still practicing Judaism, but after his death and resurrection,God anointed 120 disciples with God's holy spirit, whoever claims to be a Christian in any part of the earth can't operate independently of that group! So you can worship anywhere but if you're not operating under the supervision of the GB, you're not part of our happy global family! Go and meet your fellow rebellious groups, count us out!

Which part of Judaism was Jesus practicing? The Ethiopian Eunuch was after Jesus death and resurrection. You are saying he must have, your assumption, which group did he join and which apostle supervise? Peter? John? Who?

You have not answered any. You are just speaking your assumptions again.

Let me again say for the last time, you can claim happiness all you want. I don't need your GB to be happy, all I need is Jesus to be happy. And you know what? Millions so happy without your GB, if you don't, ask them when next you go to preaching. Ask them how their service was? If they were filled? If they are happy? That's how you know

TATIME:
Jesus formed a group and said whatever they bind or loosen on earth will be the same in heaven!
Sorry your ideology is not working because Jesus himself has a VISIBLE flock and all those those following him recognised that little flock, you can't be his follower if you're not in tune with Jesus' little flock! Luke 12:32

Where was this group when Russell form his Bible study group? Why didn't he identify them and joined with them?

Jesus doesn't count you worthy of him until you do the needful. If you are so sure you are wrong been a witness, leave !!! No matter what your families will say - Jesus said if your love for family is more bigger than his own, you are not worthy of him.

rottennaija:
Lol... I can actually enumerate your contradictory statements. Jehovah's Witnesses have a group name. It is Satan who does things in the background, without name. If I start mentioning names, it would mean they belong to Jehovah since it is Satan that works on background with names.

Unfortunately for you, if I ask you what's the name of the group the Ethiopian eunuch joined after his converting? How about the one the Cornelius joined? Which group did the apostles John belong to? Can you mentioned them?

While the Bible mentions those apostles in Jerusalem! Other congregations in other places, has it mentioned those of Cornelius? Ethiopian Eunuch? How about the man in Luke 9:49,50? Where it reads

"Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."


Christianity world over is one body, all doing Christ work of gathering men for God. Giving them the Christian faith. Splinter groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mammon, Seventh days Adventist only see themselves as the only true religion. They have created their own scale of what to use to measure themselves.

When I mentioned those whom God used in the 3rd Century, I mentioned them because I have see God's favour on them. Without God using them, you would not have had the Bible.

Before Jehovah's Witnesses started looking for those to confuse with their own gospel of drawing me after themselves, many true Christians risk their lives to convert people from their traditional religion to the Christian faith, with the hope of living with Christ in heaven.

Do you need names of churches? I can only direct you to one name alone, which is Jesus Christ. He is the only way to salvation. With your faith in him, you will be saved. Churches are just vehicles to direct people to God and Christ, without them, God uses them or individual depending on the situation.

One such vehicle God is using in China is here
https://www.christianity.ca/page.aspx?pid=11173
Read for yourself the remarkable work this faithful disciples of Jesus is doing, even in the face of persecution, imprisonment.

And by the way, church simply mean congregation.

Ion think u understand what you quote, Christianity all over the world Is one body , don't forget whoever is not against you is for you, which means whoever is against you is not for you . with the way this so called Christians attack and AGAINST each other in areas of teaching, u still have the confidence to say they all represent Jesus ?

Jessicha:
Jesus doesn't count you worthy of him until you do the needful. If you are so sure you are wrong been a witness, leave !!! No matter what your families will say - Jesus said if your love for family is more bigger than his own, you are not worthy of him.

Last time I checked, you are not Jesus. And he knows those who belong to him

I think u understand what you quote, Christianity all over the world Is one body , don't forget whoever is not against you is for you, which means whoever is against you is not for you . with the way this so called Christians attack and AGAINST each other in areas of teaching, u still have the confidence to say they all represent Jesus ?

Seems like a pot calling a kettle dark. Who attacks other religions more than yours? And the worse part of it is, you disobey Jesus in almost all things.

Secondly, Jesus knows those who are his. He does not grou them based on Creed or denomination

rottennaija:
Which part of Judaism was Jesus practicing? The Ethiopian Eunuch was after Jesus death and resurrection. You are saying he must have, your assumption, which group did he join and which apostle supervise? Peter? John? Who?

You have not answered any. You are just speaking your assumptions again.

Let me again say for the last time, you can claim happiness all you want. I don't need your GB to be happy, all I need is Jesus to be happy. And you know what? Millions so happy without your GB, if you don't, ask them when next you go to preaching. Ask them how their service was? If they were filled? If they are happy? That's how you know

The PASSOVER is Judaism and Jesus always practise it before instituting the memorial of his death which will replace that event!
The passover is purely part of the old covenant God had with the nation of Israel which Jesus was also part of that nation until he died and opened the way for the new covenant to start operation at his resurrection.
Before the commencement of Judaism/old covenant, Moses offered a sacrificed to commence the covenant between God and natural Israelites, Jesus' sacrifice opened the way for Christianity to gain God's approval and nullified Judaism for good!
So i'll just answer one out of your questions to show you that you knew practically nothing about Jesus or Christianity!

rottennaija:
Where was this group when Russell form his Bible study group? Why didn't he identify them and joined with them?

Jesus used Russel to rearrange Christianity which has been adulterated during the dark ages! Matthew 13:24-30
Russel's generation witnessed Jesus' return when He came to see how Christianity is flourishing on earth, when Jesus saw that what He instituted has been turned upside down[Luke 18:8] He started gathering sincere and honest hearted individuals to ORGANISE His congregation as it was in the first century. Russel and the others in that group were dealing with an invisible perfect being who patiently endured their misconceptions until everything is well arranged again now!

TATIME:
Jesus used Russel to rearrange Christianity which has been adulterated during the dark ages! Matthew 13:24-30
Russel's generation witnessed Jesus' return when He came to see how Christianity is flourishing on earth, when Jesus saw that what He instituted has been turned upside down[Luke 18:8] He started gathering sincere and honest hearted individuals to ORGANISE His congregation as it was in the first century. Russel and the others in that group were dealing with an invisible perfect being who patiently endured their misconceptions until everything is well arranged again now!

Let me guess, only Russell and his movement saw when Jesus returned invisible? It makes for a nice story to tell kids

rottennaija:
Let me guess, only Russell and his movement saw when Jesus returned invisible? It makes for a nice story to tell kids

*ONLY Peter and the group got the real sense of who Jesus truly is. John 6:66-69
*ONLY Peter and the group complied fully to all that He commanded. John 17:8,9
*ONLY Peter and the group were with Him during His last hour. Matthew 26:35
*ONLY Peter and the group suffered intensely in the hands of Jewish religious leaders for His name sake. Act 12:5
Peter was just a misinformed Jew like any other contemporary of Jesus {Matthew 17:10} but because he was humble and ready to take correction Jesus said to the group and particularly to Peter "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven" Matthew 16:18
My friend, Jesus worked with Peter despite his weaknesses { Matthew 14:30-31, 26:69-75, John 21:15-17}
There were so many Jews back then having wrong expectations of the Messiah and several Jewish zealots claiming Messiah back then in the first century! Act 5:35-37 Therefore it's not surprising that many found it so difficult to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah talkless joining the Christians back then.
So if you're in doubt today whether Jesus truly used Russel and the movement, well i'll just waka pass your side and think about how this same Jesus used those simple Jewish men in the first century!

TATIME:
*ONLY Peter and the group got the real sense of who Jesus truly is. John 6:66-69
*ONLY Peter and the group complied fully to all that He commanded. John 17:8,9
*ONLY Peter and the group were with Him during His last hour. Matthew 26:35
*ONLY Peter and the group suffered intensely in the hands of Jewish religious leaders for His name sake. Act 12:5
Peter was just a misinformed Jew like any other contemporary of Jesus {Matthew 17:10} but because he was humble and ready to take correction Jesus said to the group and particularly to Peter "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven" Matthew 16:18
My friend, Jesus worked with Peter despite his weaknesses { Matthew 14:30-31, 26:69-75, John 21:15-17}
There were so many Jews back then having wrong expectations of the Messiah and several Jewish zealots claiming Messiah back then in the first century! Act 5:35-37 Therefore it's not surprising that many found it so difficult to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah talkless joining the Christians back then.
So if you're in doubt today whether Jesus truly used Russel and the movement, well i'll just waka pass your side and think about how this same Jesus used those simple Jewish men in the first century!

Hmmm.
You know this was very difficult for me to chew when you first said 'Jesus used Russel and the group' but with this explanation, you've made my day Sir!
Tatime, thank you!
Jehovah's Witnesses, thank you!