Barristter07:
Ecclesiastes 12:9

" Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it "

Something returns to the maker which is restored to make the person whole again, spirit/breath of LIFE.

Firstly, it's verse 7 not 9

Secondly, look @underlined, I said it, you people are so confused and dubious in action.

Your organization claimed was "when we die, we cease to exist"

I could also remember a claim by your organization that "people who died only EXIST in Jehovah's mind

Now going by your claim there's actually something LEFT in man after death.

Let me stop here and watch u play chess again, then you just might be caught in your own game

Or you playing dubious game.

Stop telling lies, Hahahaha
Jesus said God will destroy ~~~Both ~~~ Body and Soul In that same Hell ( KJB ) ? ? ? Which one is after body is gone again , is the body not present in hell anymore ? Wahala wa o

You're wrong!

Luke shield more light on this by saying

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them THAT KILL THE BODY, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which AFTER HE HATH KILLED hath power to CAST into hell; yea, I say unto you, fear him" Luke 12:4-5 KJV

God will first KILL the body just as man will kill the body but God will later CAST INTO HELL what man can't touch which is The Soul.

Barristter07:


You confirm translation error !

Jozzy4 , this thread will do some factory settings , Shadeyinka and albhagdadi see your partner admiting Hell is use for Grave , something you both vehemently denied . its all right . wahala dey the enemy camp like one friend of mine do say

Which one does hell means here, Grave or place of torment ? One thing is certain the body is present in this hell.

See my reply above!

Barristter07:


Jozzy4 and Janosky are already giving you tough time in there , probably you are stylishly inviting me. No wahala

Besides, I called your attention to how someone admit something you have vehemently denied

You call that tough time? Saying Jesus borrowed a fake body to scam is disciples is what you call tough time?

You guys are Indeed shameless.

Now to this stupid OP's question.

Humans have immortal soul that goes on living even after they die. That is why the Bible said God is the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac. Because they are still living, he's the God of the Living, not the dead.

Matthew 22:32-34 (KJV)
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

This means that immortal thing in them is alive and in heaven with God. Or do you want to tell me that Jesus was talking to Moses and some other dead bodies at the mount of transfiguration? No.

Now, you asked to know why Jesus giving us eternal life is so special when we are already immortal. Once you understand what eternal life means, you will know that the Bible also spoke of eternal punishment.

Mathew 25:46
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

Jesus came to free us from condemnation by giving us eternal life which is without punishment. All those who believe in him in the right way already have eternal life as stated in John 3:16 which is a very famous verse. What about those who don't believe or reject him? Those are the ones who are condemned to eternal punishment.

John 3:18 (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Once you die without believe in Jesus, you immortal soul is condemned to eternal punishment


Mathew 25:46
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

It also means God's wrath abide on such a fellow for not believing in Jesus. Compare it to what happens to those who believe.

John 3:36(KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I know what I just typed won't enter your head because you lack the spirit of God, that's why you only use the lens of Watchtower to view things. Anything against what they told is rejected by you. I only typed this for people seeking God, not reprobates like yourself looking for proselytes to deceive.

alBHAGDADI:


Humans have immortal soul that goes on living even after they die.

Goes on living, living means to " Have LIFE "

So does that not mean humans have Everlasting LIFE ( ability to live forever ) without Jesus ?

#vital

That is why the Bible said God is the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac. Because they are still living, he's the God of the Living, not the dead.

Matthew 22:32-34 (KJV)
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

This means that immortal thing in them is alive and in heaven with God. Or do you want to tell me that Jesus was talking to Moses and some other dead bodies at the mount of transfiguration? No.

Zero over hundred!

Jesus is speaking about their ressurection. , comprehend?

Now, you asked to know why Jesus giving us eternal life is so special when we are already immortal. Once you understand what eternal life means, you will know that the Bible also spoke of eternal punishment.

Mathew 25:46
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

Jesus came to free us from condemnation by giving us eternal life which is without punishment. All those who believe in him in the right way already have eternal life as stated in John 3:16 which is a very famous verse. What about those who don't believe or reject him? Those are the ones who are condemned to eternal punishment.

John 3:18 (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Once you die without believe in Jesus, you immortal soul is condemned to eternal punishment


Mathew 25:46
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

It also means God's wrath abide on such a fellow for not believing in Jesus. Compare it to what happens to those who believe.

John 3:36(KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I know what I just typed won't enter your head because you lack the spirit of God, that's why you only use the lens of Watchtower to view things. Anything against what they told is rejected by you. I only typed this for people seeking God, not reprobates like yourself looking for proselytes to deceive.

To experience eternal torment, would someone not have Everlasting LIFE ?

Life definition:

Existence of an individual person or animal.

Yeeebariba

Emusan:


Firstly, it's verse 7 not 9

Secondly, look @underlined, I said it, you people are so confused and dubious in action.

Your organization claimed was "when we die, we cease to exist"

I could also remember a claim by your organization that "people who died only EXIST in Jehovah's mind

Now going by your claim there's actually something LEFT in man after death.



Or you playing dubious game.

Who ask you all this rant

I quoted a scripture for you, does it answer your question ?

I was expecting you to counter that scripture, and maybe then what you don't understand will be made clear .

You're wrong!

Luke shield more light on this by saying

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them THAT KILL THE BODY, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which AFTER HE HATH KILLED hath power to CAST into hell; yea, I say unto you, fear him" Luke 12:4-5 KJV

God will first KILL the body just as man will kill the body but God will later CAST INTO HELL what man can't touch which is The Soul.

Question is: What does God cast into this hell ?

1. Body

2. Soul

3. Both Body and soul.

Barristter07:
Who ask you all this rant

Your deluded mind does

because you can't claim nothing exists after death and went further to claim "SOMETHING RETURNS to God"

I quoted a scripture for you, does it answer your question ?

I was expecting you to counter that scripture, and maybe then what you don't understand will be made clear

The scripture is fully against you and your dubious claim...

because the scripture is an evident that something exists after death and not NOTHING EXISTS

Question: What does God cast into hell ?

1. Body

2. Soul

3. Both Body and soul.

Soul.....

because it's already established that both God and man can kill the BODY

Barristter07:


Goes on living, living means to " Have LIFE "

So does that not mean humans have Everlasting LIFE ( ability to live forever ) without Jesus ?

Humans have a thing called immortal soul which lives forever. But humans with all its components can't live forever i.e body and spirit/soul. They can only live forever when Jesus gives then everlasting life which they receive on accepting him. The fullness of that pro is occurs when they resurrect i.e their spirit comes back into their body and the eternal life promise is complete. Those who dont have eternal life as I explained are the immortal souls who end up in eternal punishment and contempt.

Zero over hundred!

Jesus is speaking about their ressurection. , comprehend?

Liar. No wonder her you don't witness for Jesus. He was not talking about their resurrection, otherwise it will mean God is the God of the dead for calling himself the God of dead Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Jesus spoke of Abraham as a living when he gave the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. If Jesus was speaking about the ressurection when he spoke about the God of the living, how come the rich man begged for Messengers to be sent to go and preach for his people on Earth? You have simply and falsely implied that after the resurrection, people would still need Messengers to preach to them.

To experience eternal torment, would someone not have Everlasting LIFE ?

No. What the person has is torment and wrath of God. Those who have eternal life have the love of God and will be with him.

Eternal life are for immortal souls who will be in the kingdom of God, while eternal torment are for immortal souls who rejected Jesus.

Life definition:

Existence of an individual person or animal.

That's dictionary definition. What a out Bible definition?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

As seen above, the body dies. But where those the Bible ever say the spirit also dies? But I can show multiple places where the Bible shows that the spirit lives on. Example is Jesus spirit going to preach to other spirits in hell. Example is the thief on the cross who is in paradise today. Example is Moses and Elijah at the mount of trasnfiguration. Example is Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who all make God the God of the living and not the dead.

Emusan:


Your deluded mind does

because you can't claim nothing exists after death and went further to claim "SOMETHING RETURNS to God"



The scripture is fully against you and your dubious claim...

because the scripture is an evident that something exists after death and not NOTHING EXISTS

It says Spirit " IT self " an " IT "

Seems something is wrong with you, is that a person ?

Soul.....

because it's already established that both God and man can kill the BODY

And your conscience didn't pick you ? to cover a lie, you need more lies

Matthew 10:28

' BOTH body and Soul in hell'

Emphasis on " Both "

Can you see you are a liar ?

alBHAGDADI:


Humans have a thing called immortal soul which lives forever. But humans with all its components can't live forever i.e body and spirit/soul. They can only live forever when Jesus gives then everlasting life which they receive on accepting him. The fullness of that pro is occurs when they resurrect i.e their spirit comes back into their body and the eternal life promise is complete. Those who dont have eternal life as I explained are the immortal souls who end up in eternal punishment and contempt.

Who ask you if humans in all component live forever or not .

@bold, Do you now agree each person have Everlasting life without any Jesus ?

Liar. No wonder her you don't witness for Jesus. He was not talking about their resurrection, otherwise it will mean God is the God of the dead for calling himself the God of dead Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Jesus spoke of Abraham as a living when he gave the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. If Jesus was speaking about the ressurection when he spoke about the God of the living, how come the rich man begged for Messengers to be sent to go and preach for his people on Earth? You have simply and falsely implied that after the resurrection, people would still need Messengers to preach to them.

Yeebariba , orisirisi ( different different things )

Let Jesus speak:

" as regards the ressurection of the dead , do you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is God not of the dead but the living " -Matthew 22:31,32.

As regards what ? Sometimes I pity una

No. What the person has is torment and wrath of God. Those who have eternal life have the love of God and will be with him.

Eternal life are for immortal souls who will be in the kingdom of God, while eternal torment are for immortal souls who rejected Jesus.




That's dictionary definition. What a out Bible definition?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

As seen above, the body dies. But where those the Bible ever say the spirit also dies? But I can show multiple places where the Bible shows that the spirit lives on. Example is Jesus spirit going to preach to other spirits in hell. Example is the thief on the cross who is in paradise today. Example is Moses and Elijah at the mount of trasnfiguration. Example is Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who all make God the God of the living and not the dead.

Eternal life simply means living forever , True or false ?

Barristter07:


Who ask you if humans in all component live forever or not .

@bold, Do you now agree each person have Everlasting life without any Jesus ?

You didn't read my post at all.

Yeebariba , orisirisi ( different different things )

Let Jesus speak:

" as regards the ressurection of the dead , do you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is God not of the dead but the living " -Matthew 22:31,32.

As regards what ? Sometimes I pity una


Eternal life simply means living forever , True or false ?

Are you daft? You lack comprehension. What Jesus simply meant was that yes the dead will resurrect but that doesn't mean God is the God of the dead because Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive in heaven. This makes God the God of the living. He wasn't saying it is when they resurrect that God will be the God of the living. He's simply saying His father is the God of the living because Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive. But according to you, your own God is the God of the dead because you believe Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are DEAD. This makes you a Jehovah's False Witness

Mathew 22:31-33
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Barristter07:
It says Spirit " IT self " an " IT "

Seems something is wrong with you, is that a person?

Another useless excuse...

Don't even come with this because it will expose your ignorance the more.

And your conscience didn't pick you ? to cover a lie, you need more lies

Matthew 10:28

' BOTH body and Soul in hell'

Emphasis on " Both "

Can you see you are a liar ?

You now hold on to Matthew alone when both Matthew and Luke are saying the same thing and your question was from Luke.

That's delusional.

The question you asked was centered on the highlight you made to my post which is "AFTER HE HATH KILLED, he hath power to CAST INTO THE HELL"

It means the killing will happen first before CAST INTO THE Hell...

And from the scripture, it's evident that both God and man have POWER TO KILL the BODY but while God supersedes man is "CASTING into the Hell" and this can only be done to what man has no power on "The SOUL"

hope you get it this time....shallow brain man?

Jozzy4:


Can someone tell me how what Jesus did is significant if we humans are immortal Souls . An immortal being cannot die, so it's useless saying some one came and gave it everlasting life.

Nutarious

Albhagdadi

Emusan

Shadeyinka

Barristter07

Malvisguy212

Olaadegbu

Bernimoore

Image123

Jesusjnr

Janosky


Other forum members who claims to witness for Jesus

"And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3).

Immortality of the human soul means the soul cannot be annihilated after death, it lives on eternally either in eternal life in the presence of God or eternal death separated apart from God in the lake of fire.

Barristter07:


Does " Die " now takes a different meaning from what it means in the statement " body dies " ?

If its different, can you explain how the soul die, let's see if it doesn't have eternal life by default ?


Cc: jozzy4

Nice thread

It seems Jesus was actually talking about the Jehovah witnesses when He said this to His disciples:

"Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matthew 13:11-15 (KJV)

For that's the only explanation why the simple saying of Jesus that God is able to kill and destroy both the soul and body in hell which has completely debunked this thread is yet being questioned by the Jehovah witnesses.

For when people's hearts are waxed gross to the Truth, there's no point trying to speak the Truth to their heart, because it would be impossible for their heart to be able to understand and accept the Truth.

So that's it from me on this Jehovah witness thread that has waxed gross.

Barristter07:


You confirm translation error !

Jozzy4 , this thread will do some factory settings , Shadeyinka and albhagdadi see your partner admiting Hell is use for Grave , something you both vehemently denied . its all right . wahala dey the enemy camp like one friend of mine do say

Emusan, Which one does hell means here, Grave or place of torment ? One thing is certain the body is present in this hell.

No one ever disputed that.
In the old testament, almost every reference to hell means the grave or the place where the dead goes(sheol) or a place of sorrow depending on the context.

In the new testament none of the reference to hell refer to the grave but a place of torment and punishment.

The problem is that JW wish to hide the fact that hell exists so they put all reference to hell to mean grave. That is very wrong.

Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

Mar 9:43:
"And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"

In JW dictionary, does fire burn in the grave!?

shadeyinka:

No one ever disputed that.
In the old testament, almost every reference to hell means the grave or the place where the dead goes(sheol) or a place of sorrow depending on the context.

In the new testament none of the reference to hell refer to the grave but a place of torment and punishment.


The problem is that JW wish to hide the fact that hell exists so they put all reference to hell to mean grave. That is very wrong.

Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

Mar 9:43:
"And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"

In JW dictionary, does fire burn in the grave!?

The @color part is their main problem.

You can see immediate I said hell also means grave he opened his birth teeth...

Emusan:


The @color part is their main problem.

You can see immediate I said hell also means grave he opened his birth teeth...

I wonder what would happen at death when they see that even though they are dead, yet they can still feel, reason and have emotions.

They feel humans are so valuable that God cannot forget some of them in his prison. Why should anyone fear God if the worst man can do is also the worst God can do to man

shadeyinka:

I wonder what would happen at death when they see that even though they are dead, yet they can still feel, reason and have emotions.

They feel humans are so valuable that God cannot forget some of them in his prison. Why should anyone fear God if the worst man can do is also the worst God can do to man

The @bolden part is what their shallow mind can never comprehend....which is the fact Christ emphasized in His statement.

Emusan:


The @bolden part is what their shallow mind can never comprehend....which is the fact Christ emphasized in His statement.

I didn't my think it's because of lack of Intelligence bit a demonic enslavement of every faculty of sense and reasoning.

shadeyinka:

Everlasting life isn't just about living forever!

Everlasting life is about spending your eternity in the presence of God.

Hell Fire was prepared for satan and his angels.
Mat 25:41:
"Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

Here, those who have Everlasting Separation (Second Death) from God are put (God's Refuse Dump).

I have explained this to you before: death isn't an annihilation: Death is a Separation or a Disconnection

If Jesus died on the cross, can an unconscious do what He was doing in the Scriptures below:

1Pet 3:19:
"By which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison;"

1Pet 4:6:
"For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

thanks. I call every lasting life the life of heaven

Dafemich:
thanks. I call every lasting life the life of heaven

Yes indeed!
It looks however we'll be able to criss-cross both heaven and earth. For at resurrection, we'll recieve our Physical bodies back.
2Pet 3:13:
"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness."

Rev 21:1:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Shalom

Though a gradual process, by unrelenting PRAYERS, few of us will make Heaven IJN AMEN !!!

Jozzy4:
Can someone tell me how what Jesus did is significant if we humans are immortal Souls . An immortal being cannot die, so it's useless saying some one came and gave it everlasting life.

Nutarious

Albhagdadi

Emusan

Shadeyinka

Barristter07

Malvisguy212

Olaadegbu

Bernimoore

Image123

Jesusjnr

Janosky


Other forum members who claims to witness for Jesus

Immortality is a basic function of spirit. Eternal Life is by default the nature of spirit. What religion did was firstly deceive you that death is the end, and then set up structures to further deceive you that what you already have or are, will be given to you, if you behave well. This is far from truth.

You are already immortal and everlasting spirit, Christianity and indeed most religions who promote those lies are businesses designed by the Roman Europeans to enrich themselves. Thankfully, Africans have hijacked the projects and are now using it for their selfish aim.

You do not need a Jesus or a Mohammed etc. You are already complete and immortal.

VRDroid:


Immortality is a basic function of spirit. Eternal Life is by default the nature of spirit. What religion did was firstly deceive you that death is the end, and then set up structures to further deceive you that what you already have or are, will be given to you, if you behave well. This is far from truth.

You are already immortal and everlasting spirit, Christianity and indeed most religions who promote those lies are businesses designed by the Roman Europeans to enrich themselves. Thankfully, Africans have hijacked the projects and are now using it for their selfish aim.

You do not need a Jesus or a Mohammed etc. You are already complete and immortal.

I think you got it completely wrong about Christianity in insinuating cessation of life.

A spirit being lives forever. He has a beginning but no end.

Christianity is however concerned about where a person spends his eternity: either with God or absent from God (in God's refuse bin)

shadeyinka:

No one ever disputed that.
In the old testament, almost every reference to hell means the grave or the place where the dead goes(sheol) or a place of sorrow depending on the context.

In the new testament none of the reference to hell refer to the grave but a place of torment and punishment.

The problem is that JW wish to hide the fact that hell exists so they put all reference to hell to mean grave. That is very wrong.

Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

Mar 9:43:
"And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"

In JW dictionary, does fire burn in the grave!?

Your ignorance is bliss. just continue to deceive yourselves.

Lying Pharisee dey give more lame excuses !
The truth MUST prevail .....

https://biblehub.com/topical/g/gehenna.htm

Easton's Bible Dictionary
(originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley
of
the sons of Hinnom" , a deep, narrow glen to
the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous
Jews offered their children in sacrifice to
Molech ( 2 Chronicles 28:3 ; 33:6 ; Jeremiah
7:31 ; 19:2 -6). This valley afterwards
became the common receptacle for all the refuse of
the city. Here the dead bodies of animals
and
of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast
and consumed by fire kept always burning.
It thus in process of time became the
image of the place of everlasting destruction. In this
sense it is used by our Lord in Matthew
5:22 ,29, 30; 10:28 ; 18:9 ; 23:15 , 33; Mark
9:43 ,45,47; Luke 12:5 . In these passages, and also in James 3:6 , the word is uniformly
rendered "hell," the Revised Version placing
"Gehenna" in the margin.

Shadeyinka quotes Mark 9:43 KJV from a misleading translation to support a scam.
Jesus was not even talking about hellfire, it simply doesn't exist in Mark9:43.

Janosky:


Your ignorance is bliss. just continue to deceive yourselves.

Escape tactics as usual:
Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

shadeyinka:

Escape tactics as usual:
Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

When you base your scam on a flawed verse in( Mark 9:43 KJV), get ready for the rug to be swept off your feet.

SHALOM!

Jozzy4:
Can someone tell me how what Jesus did is significant if we humans are immortal Souls . An immortal being cannot die, so it's useless saying some one came and gave it everlasting life.

Nutarious

Albhagdadi

Emusan

Shadeyinka

Barristter07

Malvisguy212

Olaadegbu

Bernimoore

Image123

Jesusjnr

Janosky


Other forum members who claims to witness for Jesus

Somebody criticized an early SUPERMAN story in which the writer had SUPERMAN flying through Outer Space at twice the Speed of Light.

The kibbitzer complained:

"According to Albert Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, nothing can move faster than the Speed of Light!"

The editor replied him:

"Albert Einstein's statement is based on Theory; SUPERMAN'S Speed is based on FACT!"

As a Boy Preacher, KENNETH ERWIN HAGIN of Tulsa, Oklahoma, had an experience in which "JESUS" appeared to him in a Prayer Meeting, while he knelt and prayed in a tent, and summoned him to "COME UP HITHER!"

He ignored the call, at first, thinking that someone was pulling a prank.

Then the Mystery Voice he had thought was from someone standing on the hill beside the tent said:

"Come up hither- come up to "THE THRONE OF GOD."

He opened his eyes to look, and saw that the top of the tent had vanished, and the Entity Oyinbos who say they saw "JESUS" see stood there.

He had a sensation of leaving his position to go up to where "JESUS" stood. He said:

"LET US GO UP TO "THE THRONE OF GOD."

They walked together through the atmosphere, and into Outer Space. Kenneth Hagin testified that he saw clouds as they walked by them and through them.

Years later, he was privileged to travel on an airplane for the first time, and they flew through clouds, and past clouds, and he exclaimed:

" This is just like when I went to Heaven with Jesus!"

As they trekked to Heaven, he said he looked back, and saw the stars behind them, looking like the lights of a city at night, seen from a hill overlooking the city.

If this Vision was based on the actual facts of Reality, according to Scientific Claims, the Stars are further than it takes light four years to travel.

According to the FLAT EARTH and CONCAVE EARTH Theories- also based on Scientific Facts, the stars may be no further than a few tens of thousands of miles distant, at best.

In any event, the distance Kenneth Hagin covered in his Vision denotes an impossible rate of speed, because he passed through the stars to Heaven, and returned with "JESUS' " Message (which proved that the event took place,) in no more than a few hours, at best- possibly minutes.

[See: I BELIEVE IN VISIONS, by Kenneth E. Hagin.]

My point is that there are many Truths Lord Yeshua knows, that you are ignorant of, because your perceptions and conceptions have been obscured by False Information.

How many Souls have you examined, to determine that they were "immortal?"

None, obviously, or you would have led with those proofs.

You are gambling your Eternal Destiny on a THEORY.


. MATTHEW 9:16-17.

16. "No man putteth
a piece of new cloth
unto an old garment,
for that which is
put in to fill it up
taketh from the garment,
and the rent is made worse.
17. "Neither do men
put new wine
into old bottles:
else the bottles break,
and the wine runneth out,
and the bottles perish:
but they put new wine
into new bottles,
and both are preserved."

THE NATIVE AMERICAN HERBALISTIC SORCERERS CALLED "NAGUALS" HAVE A TECHNIQUE THAT ENABLES THEM TO SEE INTO THE SPIRITUAL REALM MORE DEEPLY THAN ANYONE ELSE ALIVE.

One of their Sects was able to determine exactly what happens at Death, which is corroborated by The Bible- much of which is useless, when there is no one who actually SEES what authors of The Bible are trying to tell us.

New Souls begin as Mortals, and have the option of ATTAINING Immortality, or else going into a state of decline, in which they are finally destroyed by intolerable Spiritual Forces.

Merely LOOKING at certain Things and Beings in the Spiritual Realm available to the NAGUALS can KILL a MORTAL SEER.

Only if a Seer attains functional IMMORTALITY can their Soul withstand perceiving those Things and Beings.

I don't believe anybody would make up Visions perfectly consistent with The Bible, when they have no interest in The Bible.

They have no interest in teaching Outsiders their Knowledge- after what the OYINBOS did to them, for sharing freely what they knew.

We have learned what they know through the diligence of an Anthropologist, who graduated from one of the most prestigious Universities in America- the University of California, Los Angeles.

He was fortuitously inducted into their Order, while trying to research their use of so-called "POWER-PLANTS."

He was taught everything their Apprentice Naguals are taught, and was allowed to do anything he wanted with the instruction.

Therefore he published all the basics of their System- although he tried to withhold the Key Teachings at first.

He fully disclosed the Discipline that makes the "POWER-PLANTS" more than mere "HALLUCINOGENS."

The most important Spiritual Fact in the World, according to the NAGUALS, is that if anyone dies without attaining TOTAL RECALL of their entire life, such that they are able to relive it in a matter of minutes, THEIR SOULS WILL BE DESTROYED IMMEDIATELY.

This is not a THEORY, but a practical FACT, the viewing of which is part of Apprenticeship Training. The Anthropologist wrote how he saw this happen, with his physical eyes, and saw nothing- then his NAGUAL Benefactor made him revisit the memory in TOTAL RECALL, and unlock his SPIRITUAL PERCEPTION of what happened to a man who had died right in front of them, in a park.

He saw the man's Soul Body being torn apart and rolled flat on the ground!

Entities consistent with DEVILS were going to consume the remnants of Spiritual Energy in the destroyed Soul Body- he did not observe that part, but was taught that that is what happens.

[See: THE TEACHINGS OF DON JUAN: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge, by Carlos Castaneda.
JOURNEY TO IXTLAN: The Lessons of Don Juan, by Carlos Castaneda.
THE EAGLE'S GIFT, by Carlos Castaneda.
THE FIRE FROM WITHIN, by Carlos Castaneda.
THE POWER OF SILENCE, by Carlos Castaneda.
THE ACTIVE SIDE OF INFINITY, by Carlos Castaneda.]

From his helpful information, we can corroborate or refute his experiences. Since The Bible supports most of everything he was taught, I doubt that anything he wrote up can possibly be debunked.

The priority should be to attain TOTAL RECALL- which takes less than a year to achieve.

After that, all other Spiritual Powers are acquired sequentially.

You should know that there are some very sick and stupid people, who have dedicated their lives to preventing us from learning this, and obtaining those Powers.

alBHAGDADI:


You didn't read my post at all.



Are you daft? You lack comprehension. What Jesus simply meant was that yes the dead will resurrect but that doesn't mean God is the God of the dead because Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive in heaven. This makes God the God of the living. He wasn't saying it is when they resurrect that God will be the God of the living. He's simply saying His father is the God of the living because Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive. But according to you, your own God is the God of the dead because you believe Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are DEAD. This makes you a Jehovah's False Witness

Mathew 22:31-33
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

oga, pls at what point did Abraham and Isaac go to heaven?

haywizzy007:
oga, pls at what point did Abraham and Isaac go to heaven?

At the point their spirit left their body rendering it dead.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Janosky:

When you base your scam on a flawed verse in( Mark 9:43 KJV), get ready for the rug to be swept off your feet.

Can you see your life outside?
Instead of answering extremely simple questions that will set you free, you are jumping up and down with no restraint.

The Question was:
Escape tactics as usual:
Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

Rather than answer, you will rather try to change the topic to some irrelevant issues. Did you not promise to answer my questions after I answer yours?

alBHAGDADI:


At the point their spirit left their body rendering it dead.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That means their spirits went to heaven immediately they died..

Will you now admit that Abraham and Isaac were in heaven before the Lord Jesus came to the Earth?

haywizzy007:
That means their spirits went to heaven immediately they died..

Will you now admit that Abraham and Isaac were in heaven before the Lord Jesus came to the Earth?

What's your point?