₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
James shed more light on that particular scripture of Romans 4 v 5;

Read James 2 v 21-22;

21 Was our father Abraham not [shown to be] justified by works [of obedience which expressed his faith] when he offered Isaac his son on the altar [as a sacrifice to God]?

22 You see that [his] faith was working together with his works, and as a result of the works, his faith was completed [reaching its maturity when he expressed his faith through obedience].



Please tell us how you can believe in someone without DOING WHAT HE TELLS YOU TO DO!

The Faith comes by hearing the word. The place of work is in THE DOING

Typical of you. You are still coming back with this one passage in James 2.

What a shame.

Whether we repent or not? Luke 24:47 says "And that repentance and remission of sins be preached in His name among all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem..

paxonel:
now you see that the justification to eternal life is spiritual, it has nothing to do with repentance which is physical.

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

So, spirit and flesh have nothing to do with each other just like salvation into eternal life(which is spiritual justification) has nothing to do with repentance.

So, the reason why those scriptures you quoted earlier emphasizes repentance is for us to attain physical justification here on this earth and not for us to attain eternal life.

No amount of good thing you do can give you eternal life. Eternal life is freely given to us through Christ whether we repent or not.

solite3:
Lifestyle Tonight read this,

Question: "Why is faith without works dead?"

Answer: James says, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). Faith without works is a dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart. There are many verses that say that true saving faith will result in a transformed life, that faith is demonstrated by the works we do. How we live reveals what we believe and whether the faith we profess to have is a living faith.

James 2:14–26 is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other passages of Scripture. James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. James contrasts two different types of faith—true faith that saves and false faith that is dead.

Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).

Notice that the message of Jesus is the same as the message of James. Obedience to God is the mark of true saving faith. James uses the examples of Abraham and Rahab to illustrate the obedience that accompanies salvation. Simply saying we believe in Jesus does not save us, nor does religious service. What saves us is the Holy Spirit’s regeneration of our hearts, and that regeneration will invariably be seen in a life of faith featuring ongoing obedience to God.

Misunderstanding the relationship of faith and works comes from not understanding what the Bible teaches about salvation. There are really two errors in regards to works and faith. The first error is “easy believism,” the teaching that, as long as a person prayed a prayer or said, “I believe in Jesus,” at some point in his life, then he is saved, no matter what. So a person who, as a child, raised his hand in a church service is considered saved, even though he has never shown any desire to walk with God since and is, in fact, living in blatant sin. This teaching, sometimes called “decisional regeneration,” is dangerous and deceptive. The idea that a profession of faith saves a person, even if he lives like the devil afterwards, assumes a new category of believer called the “carnal Christian.” This allows various ungodly lifestyles to be excused: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or bank robber, but he’s saved; he’s just “carnal.” Yet, as we can see in James 2, an empty profession of faith—one that does not result in a life of obedience to Christ—is in reality a dead faith that cannot save.

The other error in regards to works and faith is to attempt to make works part of what justifies us before God. The mixture of works and faith to earn salvation is totally contrary to what Scripture teaches. Romans 4:5 says, “To him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.” James 2:26 says, “Faith without works is dead.” There is no conflict between these two passages. We are justified by grace through faith, and the natural result of faith in the heart is works that all can see. The works that follow salvation do not make us righteous before God; they simply flow from the regenerated heart as naturally as water flows from a spring.

Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner has the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” poured out on him (Titus 3:5), thereby causing him to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes his sin-hardened heart of stone and fills him with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then causes the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that new life. Our works will be characterized by obedience to God. Unseen faith will become seen by the production of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22). Christians belong to Christ, the Good Shepherd. As His sheep we hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30).

Faith without works is dead because faith results in a new creation, not a repetition of the same old patterns of sinful behavior. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. Empty professions of faith have no power to change lives. Those who pay lip service to faith but who do not possess the Spirit will hear Christ Himself say to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers” (Matthew 7:23).

I still thank God my first post on this thread clarified what I meant by works;

OkCornel:
Note: The works I am talking of here is not that of the Law, but the fruits that manifests by having the Holy Spirit, and following His lead to take decisions.

https://www.nairaland.com/5211669/saved-grace-alone-filthy-doctrine/2#79668113


Anyone who misconstrues this to mean righteousness by self effort rather than being dependent on the Spirit is on his or her own...

It is not by might nor by power, but by the Spirit of God...

solite3:
I applaud your defense if the gospel but you should know that a dead faith is a false faith.

Don't get it wrong. A dead faith is that which does no work. Like a dead dog which can't bark. Of the dog comes alive, it will bark. For us to say a dead is dead, there has to be a dog somewhere that we are pointing at. Likewise, for us to say a faith is dead, there has to be a faith somewhere, just that it is not working, it worketh not. It is such faith that the Bible says still earns one justification before God.

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Someone who has no faith in Jesus can't be said to have a dead faith. He doesn't have faith at all talkless of it being dead or alive. But someone who has faith in Jesus can have the dead type which is dead because he is not working, or the living or active type which means he's working.

LifestyleTonite:
Typical of you. You are still coming back with this one passage in James 2.

What a shame.

Wow, perhaps we should call James a liar and tear out his letter from the scriptures... so we can just conclude that Faith (hearing the word only) without works (Doing the word of Jesus you have heard) can still save...

Jesus has made it clear that hearing the word is not enough. Doing it is what is the real deal...

Many parables and teachings of Jesus to back this up. It is the DOING that represents the works...

OkCornel:
Wow, perhaps we should call James a liar and tear out his letter from the scriptures... so we can just conclude that Faith (hearing the word only) without works (Doing the word of Jesus you have heard) can still save...

Sorry, you are the one tearing the book of James out of the bible and trying to use it to create a Bible on it's own by saying it doesn't harmonizes with the rest of the Bible which we have quoted tonnes of harmonious verses from to show how faith alone saves.

If ten verses agree on a subject, while one appears not to agree, it is best you sit down and check that one out properly. It's certain you are the one not understanding it which is why it looks like it doesn't agree with the ten.

Titus 2:11-12, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world" so if a man has really received this grace, it will teach him to turn away from all ungodliness. The acid test of a truly saved person is the willingness to turn away from every appearance of evil.

paxonel:
yes, Christ died for them all but not all of them have accepted Christ. Anyone of them who have accepted Christ though they continue with their prostitution, boko haram, ISIS or whatever atrocities, they are saved. That is the good news of the gospel.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

Understand this : they are saved spiritually but not physically, because they will all face the consequences of their boko haram, ISIS or prostitution here on this physical earth.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

That means, though we are saved but our salvation cannot save us from the consequences of our sin when we sin willfully.

So, our salvation has nothing to do with whether we repent or not.

LifestyleTonite:
Sorry, you are the one tearing the book of James out of the bible and trying to use it to create a Bible on it's own by saying it doesn't harmonizes with the rest of the Bible which we have quoted tonnes of harmonious verses from to show how faith alone saves.

If ten verses agree on a subject, while one appears not to agree, it is best you sit down and check that one out properly. It's certain you are the one not understanding it which is why it looks like it doesn't agree with the ten.

Ogbeni, please also tell us Jesus is wrong too na...

Aren't you supposed to obey (DO) the words of Jesus? Is hearing (which faith comes by) enough?

Please tell us Jesus is wrong too We only need to hear the words and not do them according to the gospel of Lifestyletonite...

By the way, your ten verses is from how many authors again?

Bodydialect57:
[Titus 2:11-12, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world" so if a man has really received this grace, it will teach him to turn away from all ungodliness. The acid test of a truly saved person is the willingness to turn away from every appearance of evil. quote author=paxonel post=78943150]yes, Christ died for them all but not all of them have accepted Christ. Anyone of them who have accepted Christ though they continue with their prostitution, boko haram, ISIS or whatever atrocities, they are saved. That is the good news of the gospel.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

Understand this : they are saved spiritually but not physically, because they will all face the consequences of their boko haram, ISIS or prostitution here on this physical earth.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

That means, though we are saved but our salvation cannot save us from the consequences of our sin when we sin willfully.

So, our salvation has nothing to do with whether we repent or not.

Lifestyletonite, Hebrews 10 v 26 invalidates your theory of having faith but still living a sinful life will take believers to heaven...

LifestyleTonite:
Don't get it wrong. A dead faith is that which does no work. Like a dead dog which can't bark. Of the dog comes alive, it will bark. For us to say a dead is dead, there has to be a dog somewhere that we are pointing at. Likewise, for us to say a faith is dead, there has to be a faith somewhere, just that it is not working, it worketh not. It is such faith that the Bible says still earns one justification before God.

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Someone who has no faith in Jesus can't be said to have a dead faith. He doesn't have faith at all talkless of it being dead or alive. But someone who has faith in Jesus can have the dead type which is dead because he is not working, or the living or active type which means he's working.

the common error people usually think is that dead faith means the faith is there before but stopped working but that is not what what james is saying.
How did I know,
Because he said faith been alone is dead without works
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

His statment does not imply that we should do works so that our faith can come alive because no amount of works can give life to a dead faith like you said it is not there but pretends to be there just like unbelievers pretending to be believers no amount of activities can make them christians.

A faith can be weak but never dies, because faith is dependent on the word of God which abide forever in a believer.

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

A dead faith is dead because it is barren no fruit meaning it is false not true. That is why you see professing Christians continue to live in sin but true believers does not.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

It is the branch that was fruitless because it didn't abides in christ.

solite3:
the common error people usually think is that dead faith means the faith is there before but stopped working but that is not what what james is saying.
How did I know,
Because he said faith been alone is dead without works
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

His statment does not imply that we should do works so that our faith can come alive because no amount of works can give life to a dead faith like you said it is not there but pretends to be there just like unbelievers pretending to be believers no amount of activities can make them christians.

A faith can be weak but never dies, because faith is dependent on the word of God which abide forever in a believer.

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

A dead faith is dead because it is barren no fruit meaning it is false not true. That is why you see professing Christians continue to live in sin but true believers does not.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

It is the branch that was fruitless because it didn't abides in christ.

And this what Jesus said to mean the branches that abide in Him;

John 15 v 5-7 & 12-14;

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.



THE DOING IS THE WORKS. THIS CANNOT BE RULED OUT...

Jude v 11 & 12;

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

I just got unantispamboted but I've been reading along and daresay this post of yours made me wonder if you understand what you posted and then I saw the following.

solite3:
I applaud your defense if the gospel but you should know that a dead faith is a false faith.

A dead faith, I take it is one that produces no work. I'm sure you'd agree it's the faith of the unrighteous. Do note that my own position is that to have faith you must hear at the very least, and to hear is a word of action, a doing something, which is in itself, work, however you wish to cut it. Hearing does not make you righteous though, as your piece says. But if you are indeed righteous your fruit is how we will tell, though, thank God it isn't for us to determine anothers righteous.

Anyway, I tend to leave a thread when those I'm discussing with start throwing aspersions all over the place so I guess we are done here, for now as I always tell you, this not being the first thread you and I have engaged on what I'd like to call a "Thou shalt not be lazy" discussion.

OkCornel, continue the good work and allow the Holy Spirit to do its and you'd find some go off to reflect and see the light if it be what one says is indeed enlightening. Besides, its like the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17%3A11-19&version=NIV]ten lepers[/url]. Thousands others read too and the ratio of the grateful, blessed, in this case, by ones words are of the order established in that healing. See these here as one, blessed or not, knowing there's another 9 for every one of them.

No one will ever stumble.

OkCornel:
A big amen my brother. You just hit the nail on the head...


Buda..it appears your post was hidden... I quoted it in good time though...

Amazing that you got this before I got antispamboted! Its like God said it wouldn't be wasted and directed you.

God doth work in the Righteous!

OkCornel:
Lifestyletonite, Hebrews 10 v 26 invalidates your theory of having faith but still living a sinful life will take believers to heaven...

i put all scriptures into consideration to draw out the conclusion, not just only Hebrews 10:26.

It seems the whole logic behind this thing is difficult for a mere lay man to understand, but if you reason it properly the logic is true.

Put it this way, one entity is mutually exclusive to the other entity.
Repentance is a good message don't get me wrong, it should be preached in line with salvation.
As one is saved he also needs to repent of his sins, but at the back of our minds it is important to note that the repentance we want people to repent is mutually exclusive to salvation as put in John 3:6

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

Flesh is not equal to spirit, there is mutual exclusivity there. They are not mutually dependent on each other

Also,

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There is mutual exclusivity between FAITH and THE LAW. They are not mutually dependent on each other

FAITH is synonymous to SPIRIT in John 3:6 and they fall into the same category and going by their justification they give eternal life(the end that justifies the believe in Christ as Christ is the only way. See also John3:16)

And THE LAW is synonymous to FLESH in John 3:6, they are both things of this physical life therefore they falls in the same category(exclusively from the category of FAITH, SPIRIT AND ETERNAL LIFE)

keeping the law is simply repentance from sin and it saves the flesh from being judged here on this earth, that's why Christ desires that repentance should be preached with salvation in Luke 24:47.

But it does not mean it has anything to do with salvation if you put all scriptures in consideration which most Nigerian pastors have failed to do.

When you get to Europe and other developed nations where people have a well developed brain capacity to understand, you will know what I'm talking about

Bodydialect57:
Whether we repent or not? Luke 24:47 says "And that repentance and remission of sins be preached in His name among all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem..

put all scriptures into consideration to draw out the conclusion, not just depend on only Luke 24:47

It seems the whole logic behind this thing is difficult for a mere lay man to understand, but if you reason the whole scriptures properly the logic is true.

Put it this way, one entity is mutually exclusive to the other entity.
Repentance is a good message don't get me wrong, it should be preached in line with salvation.
As one is saved he also needs to repent of his sins, but at the back of our minds it is important to note that the repentance we want people to repent is mutually exclusive to salvation as put in John 3:6

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

Flesh is not equal to spirit, there is mutual exclusivity there , they are not mutually dependent on each other

Also,

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There is mutual exclusivity between FAITH and THE LAW. They are not mutually dependent on each other.

FAITH is synonymous to SPIRIT in John 3:6 and they fall into the same category and going by their justification they give eternal life(the end that justifies the believe in Christ as Christ is the only way. See also John3:16)

And THE LAW is synonymous to FLESH in John 3:6, they are both things of this physical life therefore they falls in the same category(exclusively from the category of FAITH, SPIRIT AND ETERNAL LIFE)

keeping the law is simply repentance from sin and it saves the flesh from being judged here on this earth, that's why Christ desires that repentance should be preached with salvation in Luke 24:47.
But it does not mean it has anything to do with salvation

if you put all scriptures in consideration which most Nigerian pastors have failed to do.

When you get to Europe and other developed nations where people have a well developed brain capacity to understand, you will know what I'm talking about

paxonel:
i put all scriptures into consideration to draw out the conclusion, not just only Hebrews 10:26.

It seems the whole logic behind this thing is difficult for a mere lay man to understand, but if you reason it properly the logic is true.

Put it this way, one entity is mutually exclusive to the other entity.
Repentance is a good message don't get me wrong, it should be preached in line with salvation.
As one is saved he also needs to repent of his sins, but at the back of our minds it is important to note that the repentance we want people to repent is mutually exclusive to salvation as put in John 3:6

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

Flesh is not equal to spirit, there is mutual exclusivity there. They are not mutually dependent on each other

Also,

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There is mutual exclusivity between FAITH and THE LAW. They are not mutually dependent on each other

FAITH is synonymous to SPIRIT in John 3:6 and they fall into the same category and going by their justification they give eternal life(the end that justifies the believe in Christ as Christ is the only way. See also John3:16)

And THE LAW is synonymous to FLESH in John 3:6, they are both things of this physical life therefore they falls in the same category(exclusively from the category of FAITH, SPIRIT AND ETERNAL LIFE)

keeping the law is simply repentance from sin and it saves the flesh from being judged here on this earth, that's why Christ desires that repentance should be preached with salvation in Luke 24:47.

But it does not mean it has anything to do with salvation if you put all scriptures in consideration which most Nigerian pastors have failed to do.

When you get to Europe and other developed nations where people have a well developed brain capacity to understand, you will know what I'm talking about

Bro, I hope you read where I mentioned severally on this thread that the works which comes from Faith in Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with the works of the Law... No one is justified through the works of the Law.

But the fruits of the spirit and obedience to the words of Jesus...


A proper understanding of "works" is the issue here.

Claiming to have faith without works (in this context the fruits of the spirit and obedience to Jesus'teachings) is a dead faith.

James gave clear example of works using Rahab and Abraham. They expressed their works at a time they were never under the Law...

The works James used as an example for Abraham and Rahab had nothing to do with the Mosaic Law...

budaatum:
I just got unantispamboted but I've been reading along and daresay this post of yours made me wonder if you understand what you posted and then I saw the following.



A dead faith, I take it is one that produces no work. I'm sure you'd agree it's the faith of the unrighteous. Do note that my own position is that to have faith you must hear at the very least, and to hear is a word of action, a doing something, which is in itself, work, however you wish to cut it. Hearing does not make you righteous though, as your piece says. But if you are indeed righteous your fruit is how we will tell, though, thank God it isn't for us to determine anothers righteous.

how do you do what you dont believe in? It is called hypocrisy.
What makes righteous is not doing neither is it mere hearing.
You dont believe Jesus words yet you claim to be a doer?

Anyway, I tend to leave a thread when those I'm discussing with start throwing aspersions all over the place so I guess we are done here, for now as I always tell you, this not being the first thread you and I have engaged on what I'd like to call a "Thou shalt not be lazy" discussion.

you can work all you can but your works can't justify you before God.

OkCornel, continue the good work and allow the Holy Spirit to do its and you'd find some go off to reflect and see the light if it be what one says is indeed enlightening. Besides, its like the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17%3A11-19&version=NIV]ten lepers[/url]. Thousands others read too and the ratio of the grateful, blessed, in this case, by ones words are of the order established in that healing. See these here as one, blessed or not, knowing there's another 9 for every one of them.

No one will ever stumble.

The book of Romans was written by Paul around AD 55, whilst the Epistle of James (the younger brother of Jesus) was written around AD 69...

The latter sheds more light on the former... especially when it talks on the matter of Faith...

OkCornel:
And this what Jesus said to mean the branches that abide in Him;

John 15 v 5-7 & 12-14;

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.



THE DOING IS THE WORKS. THIS CANNOT BE RULED OUT...

who is ruling out the doings?


I presented a man that was saved without works yet you are blabbing.

Before you talk of fruit you talk of the tree right? If works are a fruit, the tell me the tree? You claim works are evidence. Evidence of what?

You bought a car they gave you the document which is the evidence, the evidence is the validation of occurrence to those who can not see the car that you have really have it but not to the one who sees the car.

The bible makes it clear that Abraham was not justified by works else he would have something else to boast of.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

These works were not the law of moses like you try to paint. Abraham existed before the law of moses, so these works were the works of faith of Abraham.

Even david said a man can be justified without any works at all ( all those works you mentioned)

Romans 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Abraham was justified by God God because he trusted in God.

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

To him that worketh not is justified by faith in christ.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.





Your satanic thoery fails in all ramification. Which work of law or work of faith as you twist does one do to recieve the holy Spirit?

Galatians 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Holy spirit is seal of salvation. Receiving the Holy Spirit without any work means one is saved without works.
There are numerous examples in the bible

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Peter was preaching to them, when the holy Spirit fell on them without them doing any works which confirms they were saved instantly without any works.

Mr Herectic okcornel were they at the point of death too?
Why did God save them without works if works where needed?

When the jailer asked paul and sailers what they should do to be saved what did paul say to them?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Why did he not say believe in the Lord Jesus and do works to be saved?

What did Romans say about salvation?

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Here you are misinterpreting one verse whereas I showed you from the same James what he met but you continue to spew error quoting scriptures you kno nothing about.

solite3:
who is ruling out the doings?


I presented a man that was saved without evidence yet you are blabbing.

Before you talk of fruit you talk of the tree right? If works are a fruit, the tell me the tree? You claim works are evidence. Evidence of what?

You bought a car they gave you the document which is the evidence, the evidence is the validation of occurrence to those who can not see the car that you have really have it but not to the one who sees the car.

The bible makes it clear that Abraham was not justified by works else he would have something else to boast of.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

These works were not the law of moses like you try to paint. Abraham existed before the law of moses, so these works were the works of faith of Abraham.

Even david said a man can be justified without any works at all ( all those works you mentioned)

Romans 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Abraham was justified by God God because he trusted in God.

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

To him that worketh not is justified by faith in christ.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.





Your satanic thoery fails in all ramification. Which work of law or work of faith as you twist does one do to recieve the holy Spirit?

Galatians 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Holy spirit is seal of salvation. Receiving the Holy Spirit without any work means one is saved without works.
There are numerous examples in the bible

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Peter was preaching to them, when the holy Spirit fell on them without them doing any works which confirms they were saved instantly without any works.

Mr Herectic okcornel were they at the point of death too?
Why did God save them without works if works where needed?

When the jailer asked paul and sailers what they should do to be saved what did paul say to them?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Why did he not say believe in the Lord Jesus and do works to be saved?

What did Romans say about salvation?

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Here you are misinterpreting one verse whereas I showed you from the same James what he met but you continue to spew error quoting scriptures you kno nothing about.

Solite3 why have you resorted to telling lies against me?

Where did I mention works has anything to do with the deeds of the Law?


You are a very shameless liar...


Abraham was justified because he trusted in God. Yes, trusting also involves DOING what you are instructed to do. That DOING is the works I have always been hammering on...


But now you've lied I said works represents the deeds of the Law in the case of Abraham...


You just lied...


Now concerning the matter of Salvation... Yes, you can lose your Salvation.

More scriptures coming to back this up...

OkCornel:
Solite3 why have you resorted to telling lies against me?

Where did I mention works has anything to do with the deeds of the Law?


You are a very shameless liar...


Abraham was justified because he trusted in God. Yes, trusting also involves DOING what you are instructed to do. That DOING is the works I have always been hammering on...


But now you've lied I said works represents the deeds of the Law in the case of Abraham...


You just lied...

you lack comprehension. Read my quote slowly.

solite3:
you lack comprehension. Read my quote slowly.

You lie shamelessly. You said the Bible mentioned Abraham was not justified by works, whereas James clearly wrote this concerning Abraham.

James 2 v 21-22;

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?



Was James wrong to say Abraham was justified by works in verse 21?

OkCornel:
Lifestyletonite, Hebrews 10 v 26 invalidates your theory of having faith but still living a sinful life will take believers to heaven...

I've told you to go get born again otherwise you will never understand the scriptures you are quoting. You will even seem like an illiterate when quoting them.

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The above verse doesn't say sinning wilfully after ACCEPTING Jesus. It is speaking of those who RECEIVED the knowledge i.e the gospel but didn't accept Jesus, just like you. It's saying there remains no more sacrifice for their sins.

But you have interpreted the passage to mean if a born again person sins after accepting Jesus, he is doomed because the passage says no more sacrifice for their sins. Can you see how wrong you are?

It even contradicts your work based salvation doctrine. Because if you sin, then just forget about heaven because no more sacrifice for your sins.

So clearly, the verse is talking about the unsaved who heard the gospel but rejected it to continue in sin. For such is no more sacrifice. But for the saved, their past, present and future sins are forgiven and not accounted by God at all. God will not impute sin on them again.

Psalm 32:1-2 (KJV)
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Again, the below verse says God will not impute sin on a blessed man which represents the saved.

Romans 4:8-14 (KJV)
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Go and get born again, or else you will never understand scriptures.

LifestyleTonite:
I've told you to go get born again otherwise you will never understand the scriptures you are quoting. You will even seem like an illiterate when quoting them.

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The above verse doesn't say sinning wilfully after ACCEPTING Jesus. It is speaking of those who RECEIVED the knowledge i.e the gospel but didn't accept Jesus, just like you. It's saying there remains no more sacrifice for their sins.

But you have interpreted the passage to mean if a born again person sins after accepting Jesus, he is doomed because the passage says no more sacrifice for their sins. Can you see how wrong you are?

It even contradicts your work based salvation doctrine. Because if you sin, then just forget about heaven because no more sacrifice for your sins.

So clearly, the verse is talking about the unsaved who heard the gospel but rejected it to continue in sin. For such is no more sacrifice. But for the saved, their past, present and future sins are forgiven and not accounted by God at all. God will not impute sin on them again.

Psalm 32:1-2 (KJV)
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Again, the below verse says God will not impute sin on a blessed man which represents the saved.

Romans 4:8-14 (KJV)
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Go and get born again, or else you will never understand scriptures.

alBHAGDADI2.0 this is the line you keep repeating even in the face of undiluted truth.

It's time to play the "born again" card...


Kai...Hebrews 10 v 26 clearly shows there is no sacrifice for those that wilfully sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth...

You cannot accept Jesus and still live a sinful lifestyle. Even Jesus told the Prostitute...you are forgiven ....GO AND SIN NO MORE...

But you are here telling us something interesting...ride on...

OkCornel:
Ogbeni, please also tell us Jesus is wrong too na...

Aren't you supposed to obey (DO) the words of Jesus? Is hearing (which faith comes by) enough?

Please tell us Jesus is wrong too We only need to hear the words and not do them according to the gospel of Lifestyletonite...

By the way, your ten verses is from how many authors again?

Sorry, we hear the words and do by believing in Jesus. Some heard and didn't do because they didn't believe. But you think doing means obeying every single commandment of Jesus, yet you kick against tithing without showing where Jesus said such.

Romans 10:17 (KJV)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As seen above, we first hear the word of God then we follow it up by having faith. That is the thing the word of God require us to do. But you think it is about dos and don'ts

Clearly, the stream goes....

... Hear the word of God.

....Have faith which is what you do on hearing the word of God.

We don't need to do works, though it is good but not necessary.


Romans 4:6-8
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

OkCornel:
alBHAGDADI2.0 this is the line you keep repeating even in the face of undiluted truth.

It's time to play the "born again" card...

Did you quote the wrong person?

OkCornel:
alBHAGDADI2.0 this is the line you keep repeating even in the face of undiluted truth.

It's time to play the "born again" card...


Kai...Hebrews 10 v 26 clearly shows there is no sacrifice for those that wilfully sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth...

You cannot accept Jesus and still live a sinful lifestyle. Even Jesus told the Prostitute...you are forgiven ....GO AND SIN NO MORE...

But you are here telling us something interesting...ride on...

I can see you have re-edited your post. Maybe I should screenshot it before you re-edit it again.

You have found another verse to keep recycling

LifestyleTonite:
Did you quote the wrong person?

Nope... I quoted you. You fully subscribe to everything that guy says whether it is wrong or right. I might even see you as a faithful disciple or an alternate moniker...

LifestyleTonite:
I can see you have re-edited your post. Maybe I should screenshot it before you re-edit it again.

You have found another verse to keep recycling

Yes, I modified my post up there. Is that a crime? Pause a little bit before you hurry to quote me...

LifestyleTonite:
Sorry, we hear the words and do by believing in Jesus. Some heard and didn't do because they didn't believe. But you think doing means obeying every single commandment of Jesus, yet you kick against tithing without showing where Jesus said such.

Romans 10:17 (KJV)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As seen above, we first hear the word of God then we follow it up by having faith. That is the thing the word of God require us to do. But you think it is about dos and don'ts

Clearly, the stream goes....

... Hear the word of God.

....Have faith which is what you do on hearing the word of God.

We don't need to do works, though it is good but not necessary.


Romans 4:6-8
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Lol...so meaning Jesus only wants us to hear the word...but the DOING aspect is not essential abi?

Absolute joke...

If the Apostles only heard the instructions of Jesus to preach the gospel to the ends of the Earth...but they did not do it... Just think about it...is that not disobedience?


Go and read what you typed abeg... This is shameful...

Thank God your description of faith also has the DOING (works) part...

There is a place for DOING and not just hearing.

OkCornel:
You lie shamelessly. You said the Bible mentioned Abraham was not justified by works, whereas James clearly wrote this concerning Abraham.

James 2 v 21-22;

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?



Was James wrong to say Abraham was justified by works in verse 21?

Abraham was justified by works before men, not before God. Abraham did different works e.g sacrifice of Isaac, circumcision, building altar etc. None of those things justified him before God, only before men.

Romans 4
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

As seen above, Abraham wasn't justified by works before God but by faith which only God can see in someone's heart. His works only justified him before us men because that's how we get to know he had faith since we can't see his heart to know for sure.

But your funny self keeps holding on to James 2:14. Don't you get tired?