jesusjnr:
What amazes me is how to some it is the saying of Paul and not God's that determines what justified Abraham before God.

For this was what God Himself said justified Abraham before Him:

"...By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." Genesis 22:16-18 (KJV)

So if God says works, and Jesus says works, and there are those who would yet chose to follow Paul's saying that it was not works that justified Abraham before God, it's well obvious who their Father and Master is, for it's not God or Jesus but Paul.

So let them not have works but only such faith in their possession before judgment day, so that when they stand before Jesus who said they needed works, they would say that it was Apostle Paul that told them that they didn't need works.

p.s. I have a strong feeling that such sayings in the book of James the brother of Jesus was a response to the sayings of Paul which appear to encourage faith without works, to show the error in such teachings.

I have to quote this post again.


Please everyone should read Genesis 22 v 16-18 and explain how Abraham would have been the father of faith if he took no action despite hearing from God.


If una like, hear and believe God from now till forever. Don't take action and obey His instructions. You have not done anything at all...

OkCornel:


Exactly my point.

How can one pay lip service to confess Jesus is Lord, and yet live a life of disobedience and not keep His commandments?


Apostle John called those type of people LIARS.

I should agree with you.
You know, I have always said this; anyone who has truly experienced Christ will find himself/herself transforming AUTOMATICALLY unto the likeness of Christ as time goes by, it is not by our doing but by the power of the holy spirit of Christ that lives in such a person, he breaks you slowly without you even knowing, you wake up one morning and find yourself becoming like Christ (maybe one would never here on earth cease to face trials and temptations and even fall from time to time but you find that one keeps on improving day by day, moment by moment).

Paul in romans implies that to be born of the spirit of God we became slaves to righteousness just as we were slaves to sin, which means that without much struggle we by the power of the spirit birth begin to transform unto the likeness of Christ. (SEE THE DEVOTIONAL STUDY BIBLE if you have one but I will quote from king James for my own ease )
Romans 6:16-18 KJV
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20,22 KJV
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[22] But now being made free from sin,and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

cc paxonel

Truthsbitter:

I should agree with you.
You know, I have always said this; anyone who has truly experienced Christ will find himself/herself transforming AUTOMATICALLY unto the likeness of Christ as time goes by, it is not by our doing but by the power of the holy spirit of Christ that lives in such a person, he breaks you slowly without you even knowing, you wake up one morning and find yourself becoming like Christ (maybe one would never here on earth cease to face trials and temptations and even fall from time to time but you find that one keeps on improving day by day, moment by moment).

Paul in romans implies that to be born of the spirit of God we became slaves to righteousness just as we were slaves to sin, which means that without much struggle we by the power of the spirit birth begin to transform unto the likeness of Christ. (SEE THE DEVOTIONAL STUDY BIBLE if you have one but I will quote from king James for my own ease )
Romans 6:16-18 KJV
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20,22 KJV
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

God bless you. Just as you've said. Anyone who truly experiences Jesus will definitely transform from a life of sin to a life of righteousness.


In that course of transformation, those sinful habits begin to shed off. A true believer in Jesus will never justify his or her sins or enjoy it.

As that believer grows in Christ, old sinful habits are being replaced with new righteous habits.


Unfortunately, we have people who keep on justifying their sinful habits because they think Grace would cover for such. Abusing God's grace is making a mockery of the sacrifice of Jesus, and as such, Hebrews 10 v 26 states there is no sacrifice for those kind of people.


Jesus' sacrifice is for those who keeps His commandments and are ready to turn away from their sinful life rather than paying lip service.

I will still repeat it, if anyone has known Jesus but still remains his or her old self (with sinful habits) after a long period of time needs to check his or herself again.

Truthsbitter:

Not just between Jews and gentiles ..
Christ said; Those that knew him, but decide to willingly disobey would be punished more than those who knew him not but also did what was against his (christ) will. if we say it should be between Jews and gentiles it wouldn't be entirely correct because Christ is talking about after he should have paid the ultimate price for salvation and that would mean no difference between Jews and gentiles or slave and free humans, and it would mean a difference in judgement between the believer who had become enlightened by the spirit of Christ (whether jew or gentile) and the man (whether jew or gentile) who has not experience Christ through the brokenness that comes by and from the spirit of Christ that works in men to bring into reality the kingdom of God.

if you say so, no wahala!
The bottom-line is, the scripture lay emphasis on accepting Christ than being obedient to the law

how do you remain a part of the body of God with a conscious and a willfully "disobedience/pain"?

like I have said before, there are consequences of being disobedient irrespective of the fact that one is part of the body of Christ.

what then would be your service if not inflicting pain/disobedience which ye consist of on others?
isn't that the work of the devil and shouldn't such a person be part of the body of the devil?
or would you say the other part of the Christ is the devil?

it is possible for a Christian who is part of God's kingdom and is of Christ doing works of the devil, but that doesn't mean he belongs to the devil.

OkCornel:


You didn't see the Faith without works part I also typed?


Crafty creature.


Let me type it in capital letters for you to see properly.


FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS USELESS (DEAD), WORKS WITHOUT FAITH IS ALSO USELESS.


They both go hand in hand...

@bold

Faith without works is not useless. No Bible verse says such except a Bible verse written by Satanists.

Faith without works is NOT useless because the verse below says a person with faith that does NO work is still seen as righteous by God because of the faith he has. Yet a liar like you says the faith useless. Shame on you.

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Blind bat. If faith without works is useless and can't produce anything, how come it made someone righteous before God? Mumu.

OkCornel:


And this recycler keeps bringing Romans 4 v 5 when James the younger brother of Jesus fully clarified this in James 2 v 21-24

James 2 v 21-24;


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


After drumming it into your head that James gave more insight on the matter of Faith, and his letter was written to the church in AD 69 after the death of Paul in AD 66/67. You still want to recycle Romans 4 v 5...

Carry on...

James didn't give any insight different from what Paul has said. You are the one getting it wrong. The fact that James wrote his book years after Paul died doesn't mean he contradicted Paul. The Bible is in harmony. We have shown several verses that harmonize with faith alone and not works. You are the one using on James and recycling it.

To proceed us wrong, all the verses we've quoted, kindly show us how we quoted them wrongly. You haven't done that neither have you said we quoted them wrongly, yet you want us to swallow your wrong interpretation of James 2.

OkCornel:


Read the parable of the vine.

John 15 v 3: Jesus said His words had made His followers clean.

Yet He gave them one condition to abide in Him and remain fruitful...


The naked truth is written right before you.

Please don't keep the COMMANDMENTS of Jesus. If you are not fruitful, you know what your eventual fate will be.

I've answered you on the parable of the Vine. You are the one who needs to reply my post and stop running away from it.

LifestyleTonite:


@bold

Faith without works is not useless. No Bible verse says such except a Bible verse written by Satanists.

Faith without works is NOT useless because the verse below says a person with faith that does NO work is still seen as righteous by God because of the faith he has. Yet a liar like you says the faith useless. Shame on you.

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Blind bat. If faith without works is useless and can't produce anything, how come it made someone righteous before God? Mumu.

As expected, Romans 4 v 5 is recycled again

Faith without works is dead.

If belief alone is sufficient, please explain what James 2 v 19 means...

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

LifestyleTonite:


I've answered you on the parable of the Vine. You are the one who needs to reply my post and stop running away from it.

You can only continually abide in Jesus only if you keep His COMMANDMENTS.

No dodging from this condition...

LifestyleTonite:


James didn't give any insight different from what Paul has said. You are the one getting it wrong. The fact that James wrote his book years after Paul died doesn't mean he contradicted Paul. The Bible is in harmony. We have shown several verses that harmonize with faith alone and not works. You are the one using on James and recycling it.

To proceed us wrong, all the verses we've quoted, kindly show us how we quoted them wrongly. You haven't done that neither have you said we quoted them wrongly, yet you want us to swallow your wrong interpretation of James 2.

James 2 is too straightforward to understand.

If belief alone is sufficient, James says even demons also believe and tremble...


Now read what he said from James 2 v 20-26...


Just too straightforward...

OkCornel:



God bless you. Just as you've said. Anyone who truly experiences Jesus will definitely transform from a life of sin to a life of righteousness.


In that course of transformation, those sinful habits begin to shed off. A true believer in Jesus will never justify his or her sins or enjoy it.

As that believer grows in Christ, old sinful habits are being replaced with new righteous habits.


Unfortunately, we have people who keep on justifying their sinful habits because they think Grace would cover for such. [/b]Abusing God's grace is making a mockery of the sacrifice of Jesus, and as such, Hebrews 10 v 26 states there is no sacrifice for those kind of people.


[b]Jesus' sacrifice is for those who keeps His commandments and are ready to turn away from their sinful life rather than paying lip service.

I will still repeat it, if anyone has known Jesus but still remains his or her old self (with sinful habits) after a long period of time needs to check his or herself again.

@bold one

Grace is not limited. It covers all. You are the devil trying to limit the ability of Grace thereby saying Jesus blood is not strong enough to cover our sons of Yesterday, Today and Forever. Guess what? The Jesus who took away our sins of Yesterday is still doing the same today and will do it forevermore. Why? Because he is...

Hebrews 13:8 (KJV)
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

But a liar like you have said Jesus is only the Jesus of yesterday and that he can't do anything for us today and forevermore. Your master Satan is a liar.

@bold 2

Jesus sacrifice is also for those who only believe in him and her depending on him.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The verse says once you believe in Jesus, you have everlasting life which can never end. But a liar like you say the everlasting life will end when one sins. Then how is that everlasting life? Or don't you know the meaning of everlasting life?

OkCornel:


James 2 is too straightforward to understand.

If belief alone is sufficient, James says even demons also believe and tremble...


Now read what he said from James 2 v 20-26...


Just too straightforward...

Believe of demons is different. Do they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior? No. So how come you are likening their believe to that of Christians?

Once again, you have recycled James 2

Why not go debunk the tonnes of verses we've given you.

OkCornel:


You can only continually abide in Jesus only if you keep His COMMANDMENTS.

No dodging from this condition...

Go and reply my post, you will see the answer there.

LifestyleTonite:


God's mercy is the same. He doesn't give different people different chances. He gives same chance to everyone. Here you are lying that God changed his ways by granting the thief free access to heaven without doing works which you say is required to make heaven. What makes you think God is not doing the same for everyone else? Guess what? That's what he simply does according to John 3:16 which doesn't say work is required for eternal life but believe.


Those who had an encounter with Jesus e.g. Zaccheus, The Prostitute turned away from their sinful life...

But you are here telling us one can have faith in Jesus and still live a sinful lifestyle and yet make Heaven!

Yes, you can still make heaven despite sins. No man on Earth is without sin. See why I call you a Satanist. You don't want people to accept the gospel. You want them to see it as something difficult to attain because no man can do without sin. Can you mention one man on Earth sithout sin? Are you without sin? Your answers are no. This means no man will make heaven. I'm glad that's not the gospel. Bloody liar that you are.

The thief asked for mercy and repented from his sins. If he had lived on earth after that encounter with Jesus, inevitably there would be works to show for it.

Sorry dude, God only has one standard. It is either faith alone or the faith plus works which you believe in, not both or either of both. The Bible clearly says in Ephesians that it is Faith alone and not of works. It clearly sideline works. That's why the thief who did no works could make heaven.

Jesus said in the parable of the vine that those that abide in Him are those who does his words and not just hear them. Those are the people He calls His friends.

Of course everyone hears his words but not all do his words. His words require us to believe. Those who believe are his friends. They abide with him because they believe. Those who hear but don't believe are those who don't abide with him. They don't abide with him because they don't believe in him.


For the umpteenth time, I am asking you these questions;

1) What basis did Jesus separate the sheeps from the goats?

2) Why was the man who did not use his Talent cast out of the kingdom into everlasting darkness?

3) If you agree faith comes by hearing the word of God...is hearing the word of God alone sufficient? Why did Jesus say there should be DOERS (works) of the word?

4) Why did Jesus say every man will be judged according to their works?

Can't you see faith and work goes hand in hand as James has said?

Stop recycling this dumb questions. I've answered them.

Everyone, please take note. LifestyleTonite said those that abide in the vine will do so because they believe.


Is that what Jesus said in John 15?


Please see the very words of Jesus...

John 15 v 1-17

The Vine and the Branches
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

17 This is my command: Love each other

LifestyleTonite says only belief is sufficient to make one abide in the vine.


But Jesus says, those that keeps His commandments (various instructions) will abide in the vine and bear fruits.

John 15 v 6,10,14,17


Anyone who says I know Him, but does not keep His commandments is a liar.

Apostle John made that very clear in 1 John to confirm this.


No room for liars in Heaven...

LifestyleTonite:


@bold one

Grace is not limited. It covers all. You are the devil trying to limit the ability of Grace thereby saying Jesus blood is not strong enough to cover our sons of Yesterday, Today and Forever. Guess what? The Jesus who took away our sins of Yesterday is still doing the same today and will do it forevermore. Why? Because he is...

Hebrews 13:8 (KJV)
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

But a liar like you have said Jesus is only the Jesus of yesterday and that he can't do anything for us today and forevermore. Your master Satan is a liar.

@bold 2

Jesus sacrifice is also for those who only believe in him and her depending on him.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The verse says once you believe in Jesus, you have everlasting life which can never end. But a liar like you say the everlasting life will end when one sins. Then how is that everlasting life? Or don't you know the meaning of everlasting life?

Hebrews 10 v 26; There is no sacrifice for one who comes to the knowledge of the truth and still sins WILFULLY.


Take note of the word there, WILFULLY.


Shall we continually sin that God's grace will abound? God Forbid!

OkCornel:


Hebrews 10 v 26; There is no sacrifice for one who comes to the knowledge of the truth and still sins WILFULLY.


Take note of the word there, WILFULLY.


Shall we continually sin that God's grace will abound? God Forbid!

I've ready explained the below passage which you quoted.

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

According to you misunderstanding of the verse, there is no sacrifice for whoever sins after becoming born again. That will mean Jesus is not powerful to keep what he saved. Sorry, the Bible says Jesus is the same yesterday when he saved us, the same today to keep us saved, and the same forever to keep us saved.

From the verse, we see that it is not speaking about the saved but those who have received the knowledge of the truth or received the gospel. It doesn't say those who have accepted and believed it. It says those who receieved the knowledge of the gospel but rejected it to continue with their sins. For such there is no sacrifice.

But for those who believed the gospel, Jesus will never lose them.

John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one

The bold says his sheep will never perish and that no man can pluck them out of his hands. Yet a liar called Okcornel says we can pluck ourselves from his hands. The Bible says no man can pluck us out of Jesus hand, not even us. This means our sins can't makes us lose our eternal life. Jesus even said in verse 28 that he gives us eternal life, no man can take that away from us. This means no man nor any man's sins can pluck us out. This harmonizes with the passage below which says Jesus is always advocating for our sins in heaven. This means sins can't separate us from him.

1 John 2:1-2(KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

What's the meaning of propitiation?

propitiation
the action of propitiating or appeasing a god, spirit, or person.
"he lifted his hands in propitiation"
atonement, especially that of Jesus Christ.

That's why Paul was able to beat his chest when he wrote the book of Romans. He asks, who shall separate us from the love of Jesus? Nobody and nothing.

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV)
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Once again, I've given you tonnes of fresh verses. But as usual, you will bring back James 2 and Hebrews 10 and apply them as response when your application doesn't rhyme with the loads of scriptures against you.

LifestyleTonite:


I've ready explained the below passage which you quoted.

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

According to you misunderstanding of the verse, there is no sacrifice for whoever sins after becoming born again. That will mean Jesus is not powerful to keep what he saved. Sorry, the Bible says Jesus is the same yesterday when he saved us, the same today to keep us saved, and the same forever to keep us saved.

From the verse, we see that it is not speaking about the saved but those who have received the knowledge of the truth or received the gospel. It doesn't say those who have accepted and believed it. It says those who receieved the knowledge of the gospel but rejected it to continue with their sins. For such there is no sacrifice.

But for those who believed the gospel, Jesus will never lose them.

John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one

The bold says his sheep will never perish and that no man can pluck them out of his hands. Yet a liar called Okcornel says we can pluck ourselves from his hands. The Bible says no man can pluck us out of Jesus hand, not even us. This means our sins can't makes us lose our eternal life. Jesus even said in verse 28 that he gives us eternal life, no man can take that away from us. This means no man nor any man's sins can pluck us out. This harmonizes with the passage below which says Jesus is always advocating for our sins in heaven. This means sins can't separate us from him.

1 John 2:1-2(KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

What's the meaning of propitiation?




That's why Paul was able to beat his chest when he wrote the book of Romans. He asks, who shall separate us from the love of Jesus? Nobody and nothing.

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV)
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Once again, I've given you tonnes of fresh verses. But as usual, you will bring back James 2 and Hebrews 10 and apply them as response when your application doesn't rhyme with the loads of scriptures against you.

Hebrews 10 v 26;

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,





Take note, who is the WE spoken of in Hebrews 10 v 26.

Is the WE Believers or Unbelievers?

LifestyleTonite:


I've ready explained the below passage which you quoted.

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

According to you misunderstanding of the verse, there is no sacrifice for whoever sins after becoming born again. That will mean Jesus is not powerful to keep what he saved. Sorry, the Bible says Jesus is the same yesterday when he saved us, the same today to keep us saved, and the same forever to keep us saved.

From the verse, we see that it is not speaking about the saved but those who have received the knowledge of the truth or received the gospel. It doesn't say those who have accepted and believed it. It says those who receieved the knowledge of the gospel but rejected it to continue with their sins. For such there is no sacrifice.

But for those who believed the gospel, Jesus will never lose them.

John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one

The bold says his sheep will never perish and that no man can pluck them out of his hands. Yet a liar called Okcornel says we can pluck ourselves from his hands. The Bible says no man can pluck us out of Jesus hand, not even us. This means our sins can't makes us lose our eternal life. Jesus even said in verse 28 that he gives us eternal life, no man can take that away from us. This means no man nor any man's sins can pluck us out. This harmonizes with the passage below which says Jesus is always advocating for our sins in heaven. This means sins can't separate us from him.

1 John 2:1-2(KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

What's the meaning of propitiation?




That's why Paul was able to beat his chest when he wrote the book of Romans. He asks, who shall separate us from the love of Jesus? Nobody and nothing.

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV)
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Once again, I've given you tonnes of fresh verses. But as usual, you will bring back James 2 and Hebrews 10 and apply them as response when your application doesn't rhyme with the loads of scriptures against you.

The Romans 8 v 35-39 you quoted, did Paul also add sin as part of those things?

Look at it very well, does it look like Paul is justifying sin in there?

Paul said tribulations, perils, famine, sword, unclothedness, distress, persecution...

Does those things sound like sin to you?

LifestyleTonite:


I've ready explained the below passage which you quoted.

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

According to you misunderstanding of the verse, there is no sacrifice for whoever sins after becoming born again. That will mean Jesus is not powerful to keep what he saved. Sorry, the Bible says Jesus is the same yesterday when he saved us, the same today to keep us saved, and the same forever to keep us saved.

From the verse, we see that it is not speaking about the saved but those who have received the knowledge of the truth or received the gospel. It doesn't say those who have accepted and believed it. It says those who receieved the knowledge of the gospel but rejected it to continue with their sins. For such there is no sacrifice.

But for those who believed the gospel, Jesus will never lose them.

John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one

The bold says his sheep will never perish and that no man can pluck them out of his hands. Yet a liar called Okcornel says we can pluck ourselves from his hands. The Bible says no man can pluck us out of Jesus hand, not even us. This means our sins can't makes us lose our eternal life. Jesus even said in verse 28 that he gives us eternal life, no man can take that away from us. This means no man nor any man's sins can pluck us out. This harmonizes with the passage below which says Jesus is always advocating for our sins in heaven. This means sins can't separate us from him.

1 John 2:1-2(KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

What's the meaning of propitiation?




That's why Paul was able to beat his chest when he wrote the book of Romans. He asks, who shall separate us from the love of Jesus? Nobody and nothing.

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV)
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Once again, I've given you tonnes of fresh verses. But as usual, you will bring back James 2 and Hebrews 10 and apply them as response when your application doesn't rhyme with the loads of scriptures against you.

John 10 v 27 says the sheep hears His voice and FOLLOWS Him...


Is living a sinful lifestyle part of what it means to follow Jesus?

Can you hear the voice of Jesus and live in sinful lifestyle WILFULLY and still claim you are FOLLOWING Jesus?

That is sheer hypocrisy...

Anyone who says I know Him, but does not keep His COMMANDMENTS is a liar... ( 1 John 2 v 4)

OkCornel:



John 10 v 27 says the sheep hears His voice and FOLLOWS Him...


Is living a sinful lifestyle part of what it means to follow Jesus?

Can you hear the voice of Jesus and live in sinful lifestyle WILFULLY and still claim you are FOLLOWING Jesus?

That is sheer hypocrisy...

Anyone who says I know Him, but does not keep His COMMANDMENTS is a liar... ( 1 John 2 v 4)

OkCornel:


The Romans 8 v 35-39 you quoted, did Paul also add sin as part of those things?

Look at it very well, does it look like Paul is justifying sin in there?

Paul said tribulations, perils, famine, sword, unclothedness, distress, persecution...

Does those things sound like sin to you?

OkCornel:


Hebrews 10 v 26;

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,





Take note, who is the WE spoken of in Hebrews 10 v 26.

Is the WE Believers or Unbelievers?

What a shameless person. Exactly what the guy predicted that you will do is what you have done.

You have brought back the same verses they have explained several times. Yet, you are not telling them how the verses they quoted are wrong. You are a shameless person

Hebrews 10:26
1 John 2
James 2
Mathew 25

Those are the verses you've been repeating all through. The sad part is that Everytime they explain it, you keep bringing it back even when your application doesn't rhyme with the Bible.

Your aim here is to confuse people and prevent them from accepting the gospel which is good news without blemish. You are doing the job of your master Satan. The darkest part of hell fire is reserved fire you and your kind and you know it. You are just looking for co-travelers.

You are doomed for all eternity.

OkCornel:



Open your Bible and show us the Law that brings about the knowledge of sin.

This is why you will see why I said I was never under the Law. That same Law Paul spoke of, the gentiles were never under it. That Law is the Mosaic Law.


Those who are led of the Spirit are not under the Law.

Go and read the scriptures and stop exposing your ignorance here.


Romans 2 v 12-15;
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

which law made Adam and Eve to know they have sinned?

OkCornel:



Open your Bible and show us the Law that brings about the knowledge of sin.

This is why you will see why I said I was never under the Law. That same Law Paul spoke of, the gentiles were never under it. That Law is the Mosaic Law.


Those who are led of the Spirit are not under the Law.

Go and read the scriptures and stop exposing your ignorance here.


Romans 2 v 12-15;
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

which law made Adam and Eve to know they have sinned?
So the gentiles have no knowledge of sin?
Lol
If yes, how come?

OkCornel:


The Romans 8 v 35-39 you quoted, did Paul also add sin as part of those things?

Look at it very well, does it look like Paul is justifying sin in there?

Paul said tribulations, perils, famine, sword, unclothedness, distress, persecution...

Does those things sound like sin to you?

@bold

Paul included sin, but a blind bat that you are couldn't see it. He said in verse 38 that no powers can separate us from the love of Christ. This include the power of sin.

Romans 8:37-39
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Even the below verse says the same thing. Sin can't have Dominion/power over us because we are under Grace.

Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Sin can never have any power over us because Jesus is always appeasing God on our behalf every time we sin.

1 John 2:1-2(KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world

Yes, when we sin we grieve the Holy Spirit. But guess what? The verse below says we can't lose our salvation because we are already sealed till the day Jesus comes to redeem us.

Ephesians 4:31
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

LifestyleTonite:


@bold

Paul included sin, but a blind bat that you are couldn't see it. He said in verse 38 that no powers can separate us from the love of Christ. This include the power of sin.

Romans 8:37-39
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Even the below verse says the same thing. Sin can't have Dominion/power over us because we are under Grace.

Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Sin can never have any power over us because Jesus is always appeasing God on our behalf every time we sin.

1 John 2:1-2(KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world

Yes, when we sin we grieve the Holy Spirit. But guess what? The verse below says we can't lose our salvation because we are already sealed till the day Jesus comes to redeem us.

Ephesians 4:31
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Jesus o, see blatant misinterpretation of the scriptures!


Powers now means sins according to Paul in Romans 8 v 38?


This is hilarious...

Truthsbitter, budaatum, Jesusjnr, openyoureyes1, are you seeing this blatant lie here?

solite3:
which law made Adam and Eve to know they have sinned?
So the gentiles have no knowledge of sin?
Lol
If yes, how come?

The knowledge of good and evil.

Wait first, please show us which Law God gave to the gentiles.

Also explain what Paul meant by telling us the gentiles had no Law, but yet did things written in the Law.

solite3:
which law made Adam and Eve to know they have sinned?
So the gentiles have no knowledge of sin?
Lol
If yes, how come?

Every man knew what was good and evil right from the moment Adam and Eve ate from that tree....


If you dispute, let us know where man's knowledge of sin started...

alBHAGDADI:


What a shameless person. Exactly what the guy predicted that you will do is what you have done.

You have brought back the same verses they have explained several times. Yet, you are not telling them how the verses they quoted are wrong. You are a shameless person

Hebrews 10:26
1 John 2
James 2
Mathew 25

Those are the verses you've been repeating all through. The sad part is that Everytime they explain it, you keep bringing it back even when your application doesn't rhyme with the Bible.

Your aim here is to confuse people and prevent them from accepting the gospel which is good news without blemish. You are doing the job of your master Satan. The darkest part of hell fire is reserved fire you and your kind and you know it. You are just looking for co-travelers.

You are doomed for all eternity.

Says the shameless peverter of the Gospel that instructs Christians to hate certain people.


I'm sure it is your type that will tell people to confess Jesus as their Lord and still go about in their sinful lifestyle.


God's grace is not there to encourage people to live in sin!


Anyone who claims to know Jesus but does not keep His COMMANDMENTS is a Liar...

OkCornel:


Hebrews 10 v 26;

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,





Take note, who is the WE spoken of in Hebrews 10 v 26.

Is the WE Believers or Unbelievers?

LifestyleTonite is still mute on this question.

Being a branch in the vine is not the issue.

How can one remain fruitful in Jesus.

It is by Obeying His COMMANDMENTS.

If you don't obey His commandments, you cannot abide in Him.

If you don't abide in Him, you are not fruitful.

If you are not fruitful, you would be cut off as a barren branch and casted into the fire.


John 15 clearly shows this.


I'm patiently waiting for someone to tell me otherwise...

The beautiful case of Job;

Job 1 v 1 & 7-8;

1) There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

7) And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 ) And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?




See how God regarded Job ( a gentile who lived before the time of Jesus) as a perfect and upright man because he Feared Him and shunned evil...


I also wonder if Job is not justified before God...

2 Peter 2 v 20-22;

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.





THIS IS FOR THE ONCE SAVED, FOREVER SAVED CREW THAT THINKS A LIFESTYLE OF SIN AFTER COMING TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH IS ACCEPTABLE UNTO GOD