OkCornel:
To the person that said Faith in Christ but with a sinful lifestyle will still guarantee Heaven...

Read this from Apostle John;

1 John 3 v 7-9;

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do you know why we are righteous and forever will remain righteous before God? It's because we have an advocate with the father.

1 John 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

That's why David said a man whom God has declared righteous, sin will never be imputed on such a man.

Romans 4:6-8
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin

OkCornel:


Read James 2 v 19;


Jesus also made it clear in the Parable of the vine in John 15 that those who abide in Him are those that keeps His commandments.

If you don't keep his COMMANDMENTS, you no longer abide in Him and you will not bear fruits.


A branch that does not bear fruit will be cut off and cast into the fire.


These are the very words of Jesus.

How many times do you want me to tell you that I've already answered this your Vine and branch questions?

Or is it a mad man I've been debating since?

LifestyleTonite:


How many times do you want me to tell you that I've already answered this your Vine and branch questions?

Or is it a mad man I've been debating since?

I am repeating the very words of Jesus to you till it sinks in your head.


Jesus clearly spoke on what it means to abide in Him and remain fruitful. Obey His commandments (instructions)

John 15 v 1-17

The Vine and the Branches
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

17 This is my command: Love each other.

LifestyleTonite:


Do you know why we are righteous and forever will remain righteous before God? It's because we have an advocate with the father.

1 John 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

That's why David said a man whom God has declared righteous, sin will never be imputed on such a man.

Romans 4:6-8
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin

How many times will you be told that works in Romans 4 speaks of works by your efforts and strength?


And before you quote John 1 v 2 as though he is encouraging one to sin.

Remember Hebrews 10 v 26 states that there is no sacrifice for anyone who comes to the knowledge of the truth and yet Sins WILL FULLY...


God sees the human heart, He cannot be mocked.

He knows the motives of every man even before they take action...

God's grace is not given unto man to wallow in sin, but to CONFESS, REPENT AND TURN AWAY FROM THEIR SINFUL WAYS.

OkCornel:


I am repeating the very words of Jesus to you till it sinks in your head.


Jesus clearly spoke on what it means to abide in Him and remain fruitful. Obey His commandments (instructions)

John 15 v 1-17

The Vine and the Branches
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

17 This is my command: Love each other.

The branch that gets cut off is the branch that doesn't bear fruit, right?

If you have the Holy Spirit, you will bear fruit because the Holy Spirit has fruits. Once you have him in you, you will bear fruit. And so therefore, you will remain a branch in the vine.

All born again Christians can't leave the Vine because they will always produce fruits i.e the fruits of the spirit at the least.

But those who don't have the Holy Spirit i.e the unbelievers cannot produce any fruit, so therefore they are the ones cut off.

OkCornel:


How many times will you be told that works in Romans 4 speaks of works by your efforts and strength?


And before you quote John 1 v 2 as though he is encouraging one to sin.

Remember Hebrews 10 v 26 states that there is no sacrifice for anyone who comes to the knowledge of the truth and yet Sins WILL FULLY...


God sees the human heart, He cannot be mocked.

He knows the motives of every man even before they take action...

God's grace is not given unto man to wallow in sin, but to CONFESS, REPENT AND TURN AWAY FROM THEIR SINFUL WAYS.

Romans speaks of works of your own effort. Whereas works of the spirit is not your own works but of the Holy Spirit.

You say Hebrews 10:26 says no more sacrifice for anyone who sins after the Knowledge of the truth abi? Didn't I just explain to you that the passage is speaking of those who understood the gospel but rejected it? It is not talking f about those who have accepted it.

Now, let's go by your logic. You say Hebrews 10:26 is saying that people who have been saved won't have any sacrifice for them if they willfully sin. That means that sin means no more salvation for them because no sacrifice will speak for them.

I'm sorry to bust your lies. The below verse says such saved people who sin have an advocate with the Father who who is the propitiation for their sins.


1 John 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

So your talk of no more sacrifice for such saved people who sin doesn't hold water. It only holds if the people are unsaved. That's what I've been explaining to your daft self since.

LifestyleTonite:


The branch that gets cut off is the branch that doesn't bear fruit, right?

If you have the Holy Spirit, you will bear fruit because the Holy Spirit has fruits. Once you have him in you, you will bear fruit. And so therefore, you will remain a branch in the vine.

All born again Christians can't leave the Vine because they will always produce fruits i.e the fruits of the spirit at the least.

But those who don't have the Holy Spirit i.e the unbelievers cannot produce any fruit, so therefore they are the ones cut off.

Exactly. Very very correct.

The Fruits of the Spirit is not something that manifests by lip service.


How do you know if one has the fruits of the Spirit? The DEEDS of such person.


You cannot claim to have Joy, and yet be battling depression.

You cannot claim to have Love, when you are full of hatred for your enemies...


The DEEDS reflects such...And not just mere belief without actions to show it.

LifestyleTonite:


Romans speaks of works of your own effort. Whereas works of the spirit is not your own works but of the Holy Spirit.

You say Hebrews 10:26 says no more sacrifice for anyone who sins after the Knowledge of the truth abi? Didn't I just explain to you that the passage is speaking of those who understood the gospel but rejected it? It is not talking f about those who have accepted it.

Now, let's go by your logic. You say Hebrews 10:26 is saying that people who have been saved won't have any sacrifice for them if they willfully sin. That means that sin means no more salvation for them because no sacrifice will speak for them.

I'm sorry to bust your lies. The below verse says such saved people who sin have an advocate with the Father who who is the propitiation for their sins.


1 John 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

So your talk of no more sacrifice for such saved people who sin doesn't hold water. It only holds if the people are unsaved. That's what I've been explaining to your daft self since.

Was Hebrews 10 v 26 written to and talking about unbelievers?

Can you see where your error is leading you to?

Hebrews 10 v 26 talks of those who knows the Truth but still goes ahead to sin will fully...



Now if you think you can pay lip service to confessing Jesus is Lord and savior but you still sin will fully. You are no different from the demons James spoke of in Chapter 2 v 19.


It is your type that thinks God's grace is there for you to keep on wallowing in a sinful life rather than repent.

Look at what John says for people like that. They are nothing but liars...


1 John 2 v 3-4;

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

OkCornel:


The words of Jesus keeps on exposing you.

Just wait for that of John too...

you are the one contradicting Jesus.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

OkCornel:


1 John 2 v 3-4;

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



Please tell us you believe in Jesus. But if you don't keep His COMMANDMENTS. You are a Liar.


This is Apostle John speaking here...

lol I can see the truth is hurting you already bearing false witness, you are already convicted as a sinner by the law.
I obey the words of Jesus because I am God's Son I know I am already saved, I enjoy obeying Jesus.

OkCornel:



Bring the definition of Faith here. Let's start with that.

Then see why James wrote what he wrote in chapter 2 v 19.


James 2 v 19;

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


If Belief alone was sufficient, why did James the younger brother of Jesus wrote what he wrote in chapter 2 v 19?

You want me to define faith? Faith is trust, hope plus assurance put together but however not every faith is a saving faith.
People show faith everyday only saving faith leads to salvation.
For your information faith is not what saves but God himself.
Faith is only a medium.

The faith you define up there is not a saving faith, therefore it can produce no work.
Whether it is james, peter or moses that wrote it does does not affect the truth of it. What matters is the the spirit of the letter which you have been trashing since.smh

solite3:
lol I can see the truth is hurting you already bearing false witness, you are already convicted as a sinner by the law.
I obey the words of Jesus because I am God's Son I know I am already saved, I enjoy obeying Jesus.

I was never under the Law (Mosaic Law). The Law was for the Jews only.


You accuse me of bearing false witness, yet you are the same person calling me a Satanist.

Exactly how the pained Pharisees accused Jesus.

Keep on quoting John 3 v 16. Please feel free to live your sinful lifestyle with the mindset that God's grace is sufficient for you.


Even Paul said to the Romans

Shall we sin so God's grace might abound? GOD FORBID!


IF YOU DO NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS, YOU CANNOT ABIDE IN HIM.

These are the words of Jesus.

solite3:
You want me to define faith? Faith is trust, hope plus assurance put together but however not every faith is a saving faith.
People show faith everyday only saving faith leads to salvation.
For your information faith is not what saves but God himself.
Faith is only a medium.

The faith you define up there is not a saving faith, therefore it can produce no work.
Whether it is james, peter or moses that wrote it does does not affect the truth of it. What matters is the the spirit of the letter which you have been trashing since.smh

Very good to know that a Faith that produces no work cannot save. Such is a dead and obsolete Faith...

I have repeated this countlessly on this thread, Faith without works is dead. Works without Faith is also useless...


I don't see any reason you should be arguing with me then...

solite3:
you are the one contradicting Jesus.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Stories, the same Jesus said you can only abide in Him and be fruitful if you OBEY His commandments.

In that same John 15, Jesus made it clear that only those that keeps His commandments are His friends.


Anyone who claims to know Jesus but does not keep His commandments is a liar. Apostle John has made that clear.

OkCornel:


I was never under the Law (Mosaic Law). The Law was for the Jews only.


You accuse me of bearing false witness, yet you are the same person calling me a Satanist.

Exactly how the pained Pharisees accused Jesus.

Keep on quoting John 3 v 16. Please feel free to live your sinful lifestyle with the mindset that God's grace is sufficient for you.


Even Paul said to the Romans

Shall we sin so God's grace might abound? GOD FORBID!


IF YOU DO NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS, YOU CANNOT ABIDE IN HIM.

These are the words of Jesus.

you obviously saying you are not under God's law.
I didn't even mention the law of moses.
So you can bear false witness.
You can even commit adultery, serve other gods and make graven images and bow down to them. Right?

Although I m not sure I called you a satanist but you showing the sign of one by opposing the truth.
The same way paul was accused by ignorant people like you of promoting sin.

Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Truthsbitter:

@bolded. I perfectly understand where you're coming but I would like to add that any of those personalities you've mentioned if truly comes to accepts Christ will begin to live a new life whether in their profession or not, their actions and works begins to bring beauty, peace, love ...(good fruits) to themselves and to others by the reason of the salvation brought unto them through Christ.

that is, if they deem it fit to change their mind and start bringing good fruits for themselves. But if they choose not to, they are still saved through grace nothing changes about their salvation. God will never change his mind on his free gift, He is not man.

otherwise they are headed towards a second death by crucifying Christ the second time.

This does not mean conciliation of salvation. what that simply means is that they are headed towards facing the consequences of not repenting from their ways.
You know there are consequences for being prostitute, the individual may end up contracting STD's, For ISIS he may be killed for being a fundamentist. There are consequences for every sin, this consequences has nothing to do with the salvation of the individual. Remember the thief that was crucified with Christ? He died for stealing, but that doesn't stop his salvation.

Romans 3:31 KJV
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

very true! You see now that the law still took it course inspite the fact that the thief had faith in Christ on the cross and was saved, he was killed by the law for stealing inspite his faith in Christ.
So let any Christian thinking that because he is saved therefore he goes about committing sin, he will surely go for it

Luke 12:42-48 KJV
And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? [43] Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [44] Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. [45] But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; [46] The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him , and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. [47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself , neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes . [48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes . For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Christ was only drawing analogy between the Jews and gentiles in this parable, not between a Christian who is bearing good fruit and another Christian who is not bearing good fruit.
Remember the Jews were like the servants of God by virtue of the covenant God had with their forefather Abraham, who were waiting for the coming of Christ their Messiah but the gentiles who never had any covenant with God were wallowing idolatry knowing nothing about God or Christ, these gentiles will be beaten with few stripes while the Jews will be beaten with more stripes because they were given the covenant and much was expected from them.

OkCornel:


I was never under the Law (Mosaic Law). The Law was for the Jews only.


You accuse me of bearing false witness, yet you are the same person calling me a Satanist.

Exactly how the pained Pharisees accused Jesus.

Keep on quoting John 3 v 16. Please feel free to live your sinful lifestyle with the mindset that God's grace is sufficient for you.


Even Paul said to the Romans

Shall we sin so God's grace might abound? GOD FORBID!


IF YOU DO NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS, YOU CANNOT ABIDE IN HIM.

These are the words of Jesus.

@bold

Paul was not saying that if we continue in sin, grace won't abound anymore. He's simply saying God forbid that we continue to sin. Guess what? Grace abounds even much more where there is sin.

Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

And what is that Grace that abounds when we sin? Look below.


1 John 2(KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world

solite3:
you obviously saying you are not under God's law.
I didn't even mention the law of moses.
So you can bear false witness.
You can even commit adultery, serve other gods and make graven images and bow down to them. Right?

Although I m not sure I called you a satanist but you showing the sign of one by opposing the truth.
The same way paul was accused by ignorant people like you of promoting sin.

Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

@bold

Okcornel, everyone is beginning to see who you truly are.

OkCornel:


Was Hebrews 10 v 26 written to and talking about unbelievers?

Can you see where your error is leading you to?

Hebrews 10 v 26 talks of those who knows the Truth but still goes ahead to sin will fully...



Now if you think you can pay lip service to confessing Jesus is Lord and savior but you still sin will fully. You are no different from the demons James spoke of in Chapter 2 v 19.


It is your type that thinks God's grace is there for you to keep on wallowing in a sinful life rather than repent.

Look at what John says for people like that. They are nothing but liars...


1 John 2 v 3-4;

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

At bold. You be mumu. Someone who has faith and doesn't kill anyone is keeping Jesus commandments. Even if he doesn't keep the commandments but does only one which is believe the word of Jesus, he still saved according to John 3:16

Oya recycle again

solite3:
you obviously saying you are not under God's law.
I didn't even mention the law of moses.
So you can bear false witness.
You can even commit adultery, serve other gods and make graven images and bow down to them. Right?

Although I m not sure I called you a satanist but you showing the sign of one by opposing the truth.
The same way paul was accused by ignorant people like you of promoting sin.

Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

I am sure you havent solite3. You might have called others satanist but you certainly havent anywhere or at anytime called, yet, OkCornel a satanist

alBHAGDADI:
[img]https://s3/images/MuttleyLaffViera.png[/img]
@bold Okcornel, everyone is beginning to see who you truly are.

alBHAGDADI, and this his Patrick Viera creepy smile meme is getting overused and also now looks getting stale

OkCornel:


Very good to know that a Faith that produces no work cannot save. Such is a dead and obsolete Faith...

I have repeated this countlessly on this thread, Faith without works is dead. Works without Faith is also useless...

I don't see any reason you should be arguing with me then...

@bolded part.

Faith without works is NOT useless. It is not useless because it helps the carrier to be counted righteous before God. See below, Mr recycler

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Can you see you are preaching heresy? Everyone, watch how he will overlook this clear scripture and go ahead to quote one of his misconstrued verses again.

OkCornel:


Exactly. Very very correct.

The Fruits of the Spirit is not something that manifests by lip service.


How do you know if one has the fruits of the Spirit? The DEEDS of such person.

You cannot claim to have Joy, and yet be battling depression.

You cannot claim to have Love, when you are full of hatred for your enemies...


The DEEDS reflects such...And not just mere belief without actions to show it.

But they are not your fruits or works. They belong to the spirit. Your own works are things like preaching, serving God, etc which are things you do yourself not by the holy Spirit. None of those get you saved.

OkCornel:


Bro, I hope you read where I mentioned severally on this thread that the works which comes from Faith in Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with the works of the Law... No one is justified through the works of the Law.

But the fruits of the spirit and obedience to the words of Jesus...


A proper understanding of "works" is the issue here.

Claiming to have faith without works (in this context the fruits of the spirit and obedience to Jesus'teachings) is a dead faith.

James gave clear example of works using Rahab and Abraham. They expressed their works at a time they were never under the Law...

The works James used as an example for Abraham and Rahab had nothing to do with the Mosaic Law...

please works is works anytime.
The mosaic law comprises of the 10 commandments and other jewish traditional laws(Google the mosaic law), they are all classified as works.
The fruits of the spirits mentioned in Galatians 5: 22 and the works of the flesh mentioned in Galatians 5:19-21 are all classified as works where the fruits of the spirits are good works while the works of the flesh are bad works.
The works of Rahab and Abraham are also classified as good works which justifies them as mentioned by James.

For instance, the fruits of the spirit includes love, joy, peace, long suffering, goodness.... or whatever!
If you relate all that to the 10 commandments you will see the correlation.

Thou shall not steal, you can't get joy or peace when you still.
Thou shall not commit adultery, if you do so, that means you don't have long suffering or goodness.

Even to sacrifice Ram and bullocks to God in the old testament was good works

So, you see, they are all inter related that's why they are all classified as works irrespective of whether they are in the new covenant or old covenant.

paxonel:

Christ was only drawing analogy between the Jews and gentiles in this parable, not between a Christian who is bearing good fruit and another Christian who is not bearing good fruit.
Remember the Jews were like the servants of God by virtue of the covenant God had with their forefather Abraham, who were waiting for the coming of Christ their Messiah but the gentiles who never had any covenant with God were wallowing idolatry knowing nothing about God or Christ, these gentiles will be beaten with few stripes while the Jews will be beaten with more stripes because they were given the covenant and much was expected from them.

Not just between Jews and gentiles ..
Christ said; Those that knew him, but decide to willingly disobey would be punished more than those who knew him not but also did what was against his (christ) will. if we say it should be between Jews and gentiles it wouldn't be entirely correct because Christ is talking about after he should have paid the ultimate price for salvation and that would mean no difference between Jews and gentiles or slave and free humans, and it would mean a difference in judgement between the believer who had become enlightened by the spirit of Christ (whether jew or gentile) and the man (whether jew or gentile) who has not experience Christ through the brokenness that comes by and from the spirit of Christ that works in men to bring into reality the kingdom of God.

well I may not argue if you say "once save by grace through faith, forever saved", but tell me, a man that dies with the pain, guilt, fear and anger (painful memory/soul)of knowing his sins are an outright conscious disobedient of the commands of his saviour. what peace of memory could he have after physical death?
I am not saying you're wrong , I am just saying it is better to know that ones sins are as a result of falling to the flesh because of living in the flesh and due to ones orientations/life style from childhood (meaning that such a person is always constantly working towards bearing good fruits) than that of a willing and conscious disobedient. Romans 12:1 KJV
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
how do you remain a part of the body of God with a conscious and a willfully "disobedience/pain"?
what then would be your service if not inflicting pain/disobedience which ye consist of on others?
isn't that the work of the devil and shouldn't such a person be part of the body of the devil?
or would you say the other part of the Christ is the devil?

solite3:
you obviously saying you are not under God's law.
I didn't even mention the law of moses.
So you can bear false witness.
You can even commit adultery, serve other gods and make graven images and bow down to them. Right?

Although I m not sure I called you a satanist but you showing the sign of one by opposing the truth.
The same way paul was accused by ignorant people like you of promoting sin.

Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Open your Bible and show us the Law that brings about the knowledge of sin.

This is why you will see why I said I was never under the Law. That same Law Paul spoke of, the gentiles were never under it. That Law is the Mosaic Law.


Those who are led of the Spirit are not under the Law.

Go and read the scriptures and stop exposing your ignorance here.


Romans 2 v 12-15;
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

LifestyleTonite:


But they are not your fruits or works. They belong to the spirit. Your own works are things like preaching, serving God, etc which are things you do yourself not by the holy Spirit. None of those get you saved.

If you keep the COMMANDMENTS of Jesus, that is the only way you can continually abide in Him.


I wonder how many times I have to put His words here for everyone to see.

What hope is there for one who confessed Jesus is Lord, but fails to keep His commandments? Can such a person abide in Christ?

Truthsbitter:

Not just between Jews and gentiles ..
Christ said; Those that knew him, but decide to willingly disobey would be punished more than those who knew him not but also did what was against his (christ) will. if we say it should be between Jews and gentiles it wouldn't be entirely correct because Christ is talking about after he should have paid the ultimate price for salvation and that would mean no difference between Jews and gentiles or slave and free humans, and it would mean a difference in judgement between the believer who had become enlightened by the spirit of Christ (whether jew or gentile) and the man (whether jew or gentile) who has not experience Christ through the brokenness that comes by and from the spirit of Christ that works in men to bring into reality the kingdom of God.

well I may not argue if you say "once save by grace through faith, forever saved", but tell me, a man that dies with the pain, guilt, fear and anger (painful memory/soul)of knowing his sins are an outright conscious disobedient of the commands of his saviour. what peace of memory could he have after physical death?
I am not saying you're wrong , I am just saying it is better to know that ones sins are as a result of falling to the flesh because of living in the flesh and due to ones orientations/life style from childhood (meaning that such a person is always constantly working towards bearing good fruits) than that of a willing and conscious disobedient. Romans 12:1 KJV
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
how do you remain a part of the body of God with a conscious and a willfully "disobedience/pain"?
what then would be your service if not inflicting pain/disobedience which ye consist of on others?
isn't that the work of the devil and shouldn't such a person be part of the body of the devil?
or would you say the other part of the Christ is the devil?

Exactly my point.

How can one pay lip service to confess Jesus is Lord, and yet live a life of disobedience and not keep His commandments?


Apostle John called those type of people LIARS.

paxonel:
please works is works anytime.
The mosaic law comprises of the 10 commandments and other jewish traditional laws(Google the mosaic law), they are all classified as works.
The fruits of the spirits mentioned in Galatians 5: 22 and the works of the flesh mentioned in Galatians 5:19-21 are all classified as works where the fruits of the spirits are good works while the works of the flesh are bad works.
The works of Rahab and Abraham are also classified as good works which justifies them as mentioned by James.

For instance, the fruits of the spirit includes love, joy, peace, long suffering, goodness.... or whatever!
If you relate all that to the 10 commandments you will see the correlation.

Thou shall not steal, you can't get joy or peace when you still.
Thou shall not commit adultery, if you do so, that means you don't have long suffering or goodness.

Even to sacrifice Ram and bullocks to God in the old testament was good works

So, you see, they are all inter related that's why they are all classified as works irrespective of whether they are in the new covenant or old covenant.

What kind of works is acceptable unto God?

Absolutely none of them?

alBHAGDADI:


@bold

Okcornel, everyone is beginning to see who you truly are.

Says the perverter of the gospel that preaches Christians are permitted to show hatred to some people...

LifestyleTonite:


At bold. You be mumu. Someone who has faith and doesn't kill anyone is keeping Jesus commandments. Even if he doesn't keep the commandments but does only one which is believe the word of Jesus, he still saved according to John 3:16

Oya recycle again

Read the parable of the vine.

John 15 v 3: Jesus said His words had made His followers clean.

Yet He gave them one condition to abide in Him and remain fruitful...


The naked truth is written right before you.

Please don't keep the COMMANDMENTS of Jesus. If you are not fruitful, you know what your eventual fate will be.

LifestyleTonite:


@bolded part.

Faith without works is NOT useless. It is not useless because it helps the carrier to be counted righteous before God. See below, Mr recycler

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Can you see you are preaching heresy? Everyone, watch how he will overlook this clear scripture and go ahead to quote one of his misconstrued verses again.

And this recycler keeps bringing Romans 4 v 5 when James the younger brother of Jesus fully clarified this in James 2 v 21-24

James 2 v 21-24;


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


After drumming it into your head that James gave more insight on the matter of Faith, and his letter was written to the church in AD 69 after the death of Paul in AD 66/67. You still want to recycle Romans 4 v 5...

Carry on...

LifestyleTonite:


@bolded part.

Faith without works is NOT useless. It is not useless because it helps the carrier to be counted righteous before God. See below, Mr recycler

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Can you see you are preaching heresy? Everyone, watch how he will overlook this clear scripture and go ahead to quote one of his misconstrued verses again.

You didn't see the Faith without works part I also typed?


Crafty creature.


Let me type it in capital letters for you to see properly.


FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS USELESS (DEAD), WORKS WITHOUT FAITH IS ALSO USELESS.


They both go hand in hand...