Eagleboney:
bro I don't think science will even unravel or understand that mystery, scientists have already declared it a miracle officially,cause all their years in research have been futile

Lol if any sane scientists describes an event as a miracle we can be sure he means it figuratively and not literally.

NuissancePolice:


The question of the existence of Jesus and Mohammed is a different subject for debate. The question is, if it is true that God exists and what the bible says will happen to christians who believe in him is true, then

1. Why don't christians do greater works than Jesus christ in our era as promised? In a gathering of say a thousand christians, only one will come up with an unverifiable claim of experiencing miracles.

2. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Why is it that on an average, in a gathering of say 1000 christians,
- less than 1% claim that they have successfully casted out devils while the others don't attempt to do so?
- less than 1% claim to have picked up "serpents" or drink poison successfully. We've had verified cases of a "christian" entering lion's dens etc to prove their faith but sadly end up being killed by the hungry animals but we have never seen a documented case of a successful one.
- less than 1% of christians claim to have reportedly carried out succesful healing by laying of hands etc

BUT: a considerable number of christians speak in tongues. That is the only sign most christians claim to exhibit, while the others seem to be dormant. Could it be that the "speaking in tongues" is more in vogue because there is no way of verifying its authenticity?

Thank you. Let’s tackle each question as you outline them.

1. Acts 1:8 says “And ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit is come upon you”. When the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples, they did greater things that what Jesus did. For you to receive a miracle, it requires FAITH. Moreover, miracles that which expect differs and while some receive miracles and come to testify, others don’t.

You using the term “unverifiable” means you are doubting some miracles. Therein lay your problem with this question.

2. How do you know those that sincerely believe. There lots of believers that still exist these signs, they cast out demons, heal the sick and all sort of divine miracles. Likewise, there are also FAKE PROPHETS, who seeks to deceive in His name. He says beware of such. He said it clearly in Matthew 7:21-23

Matthew 7:22-23 -
21- Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity”

All your other post are conjecture. Christians have no need going about to prove their “FAITH”. Jesus never instrust his disciples to start looking for serpent to tread upon or poison to drink. I have had countless experience of healing from sickness.

The problem it seems you are having is that you are looking for miracles instead of looking for God. Like we Christians use to say, Christianity is about your personal relationship with God. How God will manifest in A will differ from how he will manifest in B, it all depends on each relationship with him.

Mitocyan:

Yeah Correct. Honestly bobowaja we should be friends. I like the way you reason.

Alright brother. My Whatsapp number is on my profile. Click to see it.

bobowaja:

Lack of believe in gods or deities.
He said you committed a fallacy by referring to Darwin in your post which you did and you even went further to assume (which is another fallacy).

You must understand that this is a discussion, not an argument. So there is no need to go extreme to prove a point.

OK I got you, check my disco with mitocyan and see the prove the of Gods existence

Eagleboney:
OK I got you, check my disco with mitocyan and see the prove the of Gods existence

Okay. I will do that.

@mitocyan

You believe in the big bang theory so must know much on it
The big bang theory explained how the earth(non living things) is formed, but not the living things

larride:


Thank you. Let’s tackle each question as you outline them.

1. Acts 1:8 says “And ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit is come upon you”. When the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples, they did greater things that what Jesus did. For you to receive a miracle, it requires FAITH. Moreover, miracles that which expect differs and while some receive miracles and come to testify, others don’t.

You using the term “unverifiable” means you are doubting some miracles. Therein lay your problem with this question.

2. How do you know those that sincerely believe. There lots of believers that still exist these signs, they cast out demons, heal the sick and all sort of divine miracles. Likewise, there are also FAKE PROPHETS, who seeks to deceive in His name. He says beware of such. He said it clearly in Matthew 7:21-23

Matthew 7:22-23 -
21- Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity”

All your other post are conjecture. Christians have no need going about to prove their “FAITH”. Jesus never instrust his disciples to start looking for serpent to tread upon or poison to drink. I have had countless experience of healing from sickness.

The problem it seems you are having is that you are looking for miracles instead of looking for God. Like we Christians use to say, Christianity is about your personal relationship with God. How God will manifest in A will differ from how he will manifest in B, it all depends on each relationship with him.

Lool all these are just simple things a snake oil sales man will say to unsuspecting observers to ward off further probe so he won't be easily discovered as a charlatan. I've been here before. They say you shouldn't look for miracles but say Jesus did miracles and Jesus said "you people will do greater works that he did". A perfect model for a snake oil sales man.

Mitocyan:

Ok I think I get you now. What you have in mind is a deist(look it up for the full description) not atheist. The renowned Mathematician Carl Friedrich Gauss was a Deist. He rejected all religion but still felt the existence of God was possible. A God whose character does not fit into any of those described by the known religions.

No I don't mean deist ,Darwin was a pure atheist until he saw the prove of God's existence and retraced his step

Mitocyan:

I laugh in swahili. You've not answered my question either? Do you think you can drink poison without it hurting you?

"So if you can't disprove the existence of my brother how can you disprove that he can turn into a lion".

Well I'm very sure you'll ask me to bring him to a public place and demonstrate it otherwise you'll dismiss me as a lunatic. What if I told you he died many years ago. You'll know I'm not worth your time. That is exactly how you sound right now.

I don’t understand this whatboutism.

Why do I have to disprove the existence of your brother when I never question his existence? This is pure logic which shouldn’t be lost on you.

Mitocyan:

Honestly I don't know how hard it is for people to understand. The day I understood this simple concept was the day I bade farewell to religion.

It's really hard. Years of religious indoctrinations from tender age into adulthood did the havoc.

Shadon007:
@mitocyan

You believe in the big bang theory so must know much on it
The big bang theory explained how the earth(non living things) is formed, but not the living things

Yeah I belive in the big bang theory. But the understanding of it or of evolution is not required before one can see that religion is made up. Yeah the study of the formation of living things is not yet known as at the last time I check from non-living things and this study is called abio-genesis. So many hypothesis have been formulated to describe it but non is widely accepted yet as at the last time I checked.

And as I will also say as intellectual honest people we must not be too proud to leave an answer as "we don't know" rather than bring up made up hogwash that stalls the evolution of knowledge and scientific thinking.

bobowaja:

It's really hard. Years of religious indoctrinations from tender age into adulthood did the havoc.

Exactly man. It has done so many havoc.

Mitocyan:

Exactly man. It has done so many havoc.

Yeah.

bobowaja:

Prove that I am not using an iPhone. Normally the proving should be on me to convince you that I am. Not the other way round.

Why do I have to prove you are not using an iPhone? Did I ever claim you are not using one?

The claim is on ground already. JESUS IS REAL and He Exist, you are the one that claim he’s not real and he doesn’t exist so the burden of proof has shifted to you.

You are the one that’s disproving which means you know something I don’t know, bring your proof that he doesn’t exist and I will bring mine that he exist.

Mitocyan:

Lol if any sane scientists describes an event as a miracle we can be sure he means it figuratively and not literally.

admittedly they could not prove the cause or give reasons, whether they said it figuratively or literally , if you put urself in their shoes you will do xame

larride:


I don’t understand this whatboutism.

Why do I have to disprove the existence of your brother when I never question his existence? This is pure logic which shouldn’t be lost on you.

I understand the angle you are coming from. It's the same way Pastor TB J will not question the purported miracles of Pastor Chris O. He knows it is fake but he won't question it so that his too won't be questioned. I understand your plight but continue.

Mitocyan:


Lool all these are just simple things a snake oil sales man will say to unsuspecting observers to ward off further probe so he won't be easily discovered as a charlatan. I've been here before. They say you shouldn't look for miracles but say Jesus did miracles and Jesus said "you people will do greater works that he did". A perfect model for a snake oil sales man.

I really do not want to sound condescending because that’s how you are sounding right now.

If you want to have a proper debate, I’m open to one and if not we can just end this here.

Thank you.

larride:


Why do I have to prove you are not using an iPhone? Did I ever claim you are not using one?

The claim is on ground already. JESUS IS REAL and He Exist, you are the one that claim he’s not real and he doesn’t exist so the burden of proof has shifted to you.

You are the one that’s disproving which means you know something I don’t know, bring your proof that he doesn’t exist and I will bring mine that he exist.

I am sorry this has just shown that you can't hold an intellectually honest argument. But it's okay. It is what indoctrination can do to someone. And it is the same way some terrorists think.

larride:


Why do I have to prove you are not using an iPhone? Did I ever claim you are not using one?

The claim is on ground already. JESUS IS REAL and He Exist, you are the one that claim he’s not real and he doesn’t exist so the burden of proof has shifted to you.

You are the one that’s disproving which means you know something I don’t know, bring your proof that he doesn’t exist and I will bring mine that he exist.

@bolded.

If it is grounded as you claimed. No one would be disputing that today. The thing is nothing is absolute until it is put to test.

You told me you have a ring on your middle finger. I told you to show me, you won't but would rather tell me to believe you do have it.

Mitocyan:

I understand the angle you are coming from. It's the same way Pastor TB J will not question the purported miracles of Pastor Chris O. He knows it is fake but he won't question it so that his too won't be questioned. I understand your plight but continue.

OK.

larride:


Why do I have to prove you are not using an iPhone? Did I ever claim you are not using one?

The claim is on ground already. JESUS IS REAL and He Exist, you are the one that claim he’s not real and he doesn’t exist so the burden of proof has shifted to you.

You are the one that’s disproving which means you know something I don’t know, bring your proof that he doesn’t exist and I will bring mine that he exist.

I understand the angle you are coming from. It's the same way Pastor TB J will not question the purported miracles of Pastor Chris O. He knows it is fake but he won't question it so that his too won't be questioned. I understand your plight but continue.

bobowaja:

@bolded.

If it is grounded as you claimed. No one would be disputing that today. The thing is nothing is absolute until it is put to test.

You told me you have a ring on your middle finger. I told you to show me, you won't but would rather tell me to believe you do have it.

Are you saying that Jesus isn’t real and He never existed?

Mitocyan:


I understand the angle you are coming from. It's the same way Pastor TB J will not question the purported miracles of Pastor Chris O. He knows it is fake but he won't question it so that his too won't be questioned. I understand your plight but continue.

You can stop quoting me now.

Thanks.

larride:


Are you saying that Jesus isn’t real and He never existed?

Ok let's do it this way. What makes you think Jesus is real has he been to your house before. Has he helped you raise a dead loved one before?

larride:


You can stop quoting me now.

Thanks.

I am quoting you for others to partake in the discussions when they awake. I am not doing it to taunt you like you may suspect.

larride:


Are you saying that Jesus isn’t real and He never existed?

Answer me first. The burden of prove lies with you.

larride:


Thank you. Let’s tackle each question as you outline them.

1. Acts 1:8 says “And ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit is come upon you”. When the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples, they did greater things that what Jesus did. For you to receive a miracle, it requires FAITH. Moreover, miracles that which expect differs and while some receive miracles and come to testify, others don’t.

You using the term “unverifiable” means you are doubting some miracles. Therein lay your problem with this question.

Your entire argument is based on the premise that the bible in itself is indeed an authority but I do not want to debate that inorder not to lose track of the subject. Assuming the bible is infact God's word and a record of events that actually happened, the question is can you point to any christian in our era that has done any "work" greater than Jesus with evidence? E.g. Jesus christ plugged back the ear of one of his disciples that were chopped off, turned water into wine, walked on water etc. These are objective proofs that prove supernaturality.

2.

How do you know those that sincerely believe. There lots of believers that still exist these signs, they cast out demons, heal the sick and all sort of divine miracles. Likewise, there are also FAKE PROPHETS, who seeks to deceive in His name. He says beware of such. He said it clearly in Matthew 7:21-23

Matthew 7:22-23 -
21- Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity”

All your other post are conjecture. Christians have no need going about to prove their “FAITH”. Jesus never instrust his disciples to start looking for serpent to tread upon or poison to drink. I have had countless experience of healing from sickness.

@bolded, lets say that the people you referred to here did not believe. Well, how about you? Have you experienced any of these supernatural events through you? Have you done any works atleast comparable with that of Jesus christ since you believe? The converse implication of the bold claim that says "these signs shall follow them that believe" is that if you do not experience them, you are an unbeliever. Are you a believer based on these?

The problem it seems you are having is that you are looking for miracles instead of looking for God. Like we Christians use to say, Christianity is about your personal relationship with God. How God will manifest in A will differ from how he will manifest in B, it all depends on each relationship with him.

What I am doing is beyond looking for miracles. I am only probing the validity of your bible based on what it claims. I am simply just putting it to test just the way I would if any scientist come up with a new discovery. Imagine a scientist coming up with an equation that can be used to build a HIV cure or vaccine, shouldn't the equation be tested? Be reasonable. Not everyone is looking to mock God. If your bible had said, those that believe in him will have green blood for instance, that is what I will ask you to show me. If indeed God is real, then he must honour everything he said in his book else he is either a fraud or his book was made up by people.

Same can be said for big bang theory, it can also be made up. If scentist can tell the age of the earth and how it formed as if they saw it. the age of man in the earth etc. They suppose to have an answer to how livingthings come about

Mitocyan:

Yeah I belive in the big bang theory. But the understanding of it or of evolution is not required before one can see that religion is made up. Yeah the study of the formation of living things is not yet known as at the last time I check from non-living things and this study is called abio-genesis. So many hypothesis have been formulated to describe it but non is widely accepted yet as at the last time I checked.

And as I will also say as intellectual honest people we must not be too proud to leave an answer as "we don't know" rather than bring up made up hogwash that stalls the evolution of knowledge and scientific thinking.

Since you use scripture first:

The first scripture here, man has been told what will come through acquiring several knowledge. It makes them questions God.

Question : At what point did you become atheist, we're u born atheist?

God is all knowing God, he knew that this will come up at some point in time so he said in Romans 1:22 & 25
KJV:Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
25: KJV:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. . Base on research and proclaimed reality, why couldn't a developed country as China foretell the coming of coronavirus bro.
Plz be foolish so to be wise my brother.

1 Corinthians 1:20-21
KJV:Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21
KJV:For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


It already foolishness, having the wisdom of this world, because it makes us question the existence of God, it took years for man to conclusively tell the rotation of earth round the sun, but the big question is can man ever stop researching, it's capital no, because in God's creation you can never know it all, man die trying to find it out, the documented knowledge is passed on to his group to continue but yet the earth remains, and inconclusive the research becomes.
Before we hear about 9 planets but now it's more than that, isn't that enough to acknowledge the existence of God.

Note: With the knowledge of all scientist put together, they can't fathom the existence of earth nor God, bro there are so many abandon research work, pls take up one. Bible call them

Psalm 14:1
NIV:The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

1 corinthians 3:19-20

NIV:For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”;

NIV:and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”



Jeremiah 9:23-24
KJV:Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24
KJV:But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.[b]2 thimoty 3:7 KJV:Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Shadon007:
@mitocyan

You believe in the big bang theory so must know much on it
The big bang theory explained how the earth(non living things) is formed, but not the living things

The big bang is an event that produced enormous amount of energy. Energy can then be converted to mass according to the famous E=mcExp02 proposed by Einstein. If mass can come from energy, then it is not out of place to say that living things indirectly emerged from the big bang

Mitocyan:


Ok let's do it this way. What makes you think Jesus is real has he been to your house before. Has he helped you raise a dead loved one before?

Your late brother never came to my house before, so he doesn’t exist. Beautiful.

bobowaja:

Answer me first. The burden of prove lies with you.

I said Jesus is REAL and he Exist. I’m not doing his existence. It is both of you that are denying his existence. So bring proof that he doesn’t exist.

larride:


Your late brother never came to my house before, so he doesn’t exist. Beautiful.



I said Jesus is REAL and he Exist. I’m not doing his existence. It is both of you that are denying his existence. So bring proof that he doesn’t exist.

At least you say that my late brother never came to your house therefore he doesn't exist. By extension, it follows that Jesus doesn't exist since he never came to your house. I suppose we can proceed from here? Oh and by the way. This is not supposed to appear like a fight but an intellectual discuss so forgive all my attempt at making it appear like one. I admonish you not to make it appear like one also.