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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions (7082 Views)
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Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Uchek(m): 12:02pm On May 17, 2020 |
When did Obasanjo become Igbo? How did you single-handely make Jonathan president? LukasPodolski: 1 Like |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by diplomat058(m): 12:02pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid:So much fallacies are inherent in your post. If you talk of unity, I believe the Yorubas did set a precedence for most kingdoms and civilizations west of the Niger. What political unity supersede the building of an empire? The Oyo empire was a testament of the cooperative sagacity of our forefathers. Also, there was cultural unity as all Yoruba kingdoms pledged existential allegiances to Ile Ife which they all regarded as the cradle of Yoruba civilization. If Yorubas weren't united, the Fulanis wouldn't be defeated twice in Osogbo war of 1840, and in the 1870s. The Ibadan generals led the coalition army, defeated the Fulanis, went to Ilorin to cut off the head of their Emir, but the Ilorin people, for Islamic reasons, decided to keep the Emirate, instead of returning to the traditional monarchy which they called pagan and an islamic Haram. Yoruba people cooperated via OPC, NADECO and others to press for a Yoruba presidency, as a compensation for the Abiola case. You talk as if civil wars are alien to mankind. Even some of the world greatest civilizations experienced civil wars. The English had theirs in the 17th century. The German had theirs which led to the expulsion of Germanic Austria from the then German Confederacy. The Italians had series of wars among themselves, viz a viz Venetia, Milan, Lombardy, Napoli, Sicilia and the rest, until Mazini and Garibaldi, great nationalists, united the country in 1870. Would you say Italians were a primitive people? Many of you guys just analyse history from a wrapped mindset and at their best, your prejudiced analyses are best reserved for the bin. 8 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by LukasPodolski: 12:04pm On May 17, 2020 |
Iceberg3:Don't quote me again.
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Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 12:05pm On May 17, 2020 |
diplomat058: You are just beating round the bush. Zik had no gun, he had no hypnotic powers. He only had his opinions. If others bought his opinion and favoured the unity of the country at that time as against having secession clause. How can you Yorubas extrapolate it to say that Zik stopped secession clause insertion? Did Zik point gun at anyone? Was he a wizard that hypnotized others? How can you lots be this mischievous. On Ironsi, I am glad we finally accepted that he wasn't the one who destroyed the regional arrangements. He only united the civil service, which didn't sit well with the North who had already said they would rather import Lebanese and other non black races to take up slots in Northern civil service than have qualified Igbos fill that post. Now tell me what real country or leader would allow that to continue if the aim is to build a functional united country. Now you are giving excuses to justify Awolowo and Gowon evil of dividing the regions and setting into play the chain of events that led to Nigeria failure. We are atleast getting to somewhere. I will let you know that the road to hell are usually filled with good intentions. It's time you Yorubas accept that Awolowo supported Gowon to kill and bury federalism. It's time you stopped blaming Ironsi for sins of your own heroes. You said Ironsi watered the ground? What exactly is the meaning of that? What a lame excuse! Did Ironsi or did he not dissolve the regions? The Answer is No! Thank you. Did Gowon with Awolowo counsel dissolve the regions and replaced them with dysfunctional states that led to Nigeria inevitable death? The Answer is Yes! Thank you. Every other thing is subjective analysis. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by LukasPodolski: 12:06pm On May 17, 2020 |
Uchek:Who is this one again? Did you not see exaggeration in bracket. |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Uchek(m): 12:08pm On May 17, 2020 |
Please how old are you? diplomat058: |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by LukasPodolski: 12:13pm On May 17, 2020 |
Pazienza igboid am still waiting ooh.
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Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 12:15pm On May 17, 2020 |
diplomat058: Your unification against Fulanis explained my point. You were united by common hate for Fulanis. Once the Fulanis were out of the way, you fell back to fighting each other. You couldn't find an abstract thing to replace the hate with. Hate is a good way to unite people. But it shouldn't be hate for others. It should be hate for abstract things. For example, the Igbos are all over the world both in slavery and at home united by hate for subjugation, retrogression, failure and marginalization. In modern times, we hate Nigeria as an entity because she embodies the above characteristics. We only hate you when you are seen to be supporting and promoting things we hate. For example, it would appear Igbos hate Yorubas, when in truth, it's Yorubas penchant for subtly fighting to keep Igbos in Nigeria that we hate. The Igbo is united by hate for failure or retrogression which was why Buhari could never sell in SE despite having two Igbo VPs, and while Abia and it's leadership are continuously bashed currently by other Igbos. 5 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by omonnakoda: 12:19pm On May 17, 2020 |
Good luck Jonathan was a disaster. There is no way to dress that up. He failed terribly and Yoruba who supported him to get there did the right thing to remove him. Yoruba did not vote him because of any fictional Southern Solidarity Jonathan was Ijaw and Ijaw did not vote for Abiola and NEVER voted Awolowo rather they voted for the NORTH every time a Yoruba went against a Fulani candidate. Still Yoruba did not hold that against them in 2011 but voted for Jonathan. How did he repay them? https://www.nairaland.com/745731/yoruba-marginalization-elders-met-jonathan So In 2015 they voted against him correctly. Yoruba owe no one any false allegiance on the basis of Southern Nigeria. Yoruba are the one group that are VERY comfortable to be in opposition. We will NEVER support Ibo presidency ,Forget it all the blackmail will change nothing. 3 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by 4Play(m): 12:24pm On May 17, 2020 |
LukasPodolski: There is no such thing as host between citizens of a country. That is the reasoning of a backward person. Can you imagine a Londoner claiming he is hosting a Geordie from Newcastle, UK who moved to London? You won't be able to utter such drivel in civilised settings. You have 2 choices, you can either secede and in that case treat non-indigenes as foreigners or accept the necessary implication of being in one country: that citizens of the country who have legitimately acquired residence have a right of stay in any part of the country. This your host/guest lingo is a symptom of a benighted bigoted mindset that helps condemn the country to remain a failure. Look at that London example you gave of Sadiq Khan - a Muslim son of a Pakistani driver. I have heard non-whites say repeatedly that they built London after the 2nd world war. I saw Dianne Abbot MP say it on BBC Question Time. Factually, I think it's hogwash as is Igbos claiming they built Lagos but to suggest that it is good grounds for attacking an ethnicity speaks to your barbaric inclinations. There is also a qualm I have with people who keep pursuing the "we must develop our region" line. If you actually develop your region to the exclusion of other regions, those other regions' people will eventually relocate to yours. Given that demography is destiny, if the birth rates of the undeveloped region's people is higher than yours, with exponential growth, your region's population will be supplanted (within and outside your region). This is why I am keen on infrastructure investment in the North and anti-poverty programs up North because I recognize that an underdeveloped North will pose dire security and economic challenges to the South. At some point, you have to recognize that you are either fully invested in the one country you actually have with no naive deliberations on "our tribe vs others" or you go all out for secession. Fighting one another while tied to a country is like the organs of the body fighting each other for superiority. 6 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 12:25pm On May 17, 2020 |
LukasPodolski: They were always choosing coastal areas to build capital cities, I mean the Western colonialists. This is because, they came strictly for exploitation of the continent, so they usually built their base to the nearest point of exit of exploited raw materials from the colony to the sea, which is the coasts. Look at West African map. Lome, Porto Novo, Abidjan, Accra, Monrovia, Conakry, etc are all colonial capital cities, they were all facing the Atlantic. Onitsha was inland so stood no chance. Ph port had too many mangrove swamps leading from Atlantic coast to Land, it made navigation of big vessels hard. Calabar port were shallow I learnt. They had to choose between Lagos and Calabar, Lagos won in the end. It wasn't anything to do with Lagos indigenes (Egun/Ijebu/Aworis/Tapa), it was strictly business for the British. Perhaps if Lagos colony wasn't amalgamated to Southern colony in 1906. If Lagos colony became an independent country of its own. Calabar would have become the capital of united Nigeria comprising of current SE/SS and North, while Lagos will be the capital of a small Yoruba only country. 2 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by diplomat058(m): 12:25pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid:Lol. Well, if you refuse to acknowledge Zik and Ironsi's complicities, then I am afraid that your points are all baseless. You said Zik didn't force Balewa and Bello for the removal of the secession clause, that he just advised them to wreck regional autonomy. I am poised to ask you that did Awo force Gowon to blockade Biafra? Did he force him to create the state system? 'No', of course, is the answer. So, we are even. If Ironsi had dine the needful, we wouldn't have had a war, I still insist. The January coup was reputed to have ethnic rationale and when Ironsi came in, all his actions effectively justified and affirmed the suspicions. He first passed unification decree 34 to centralize powers in the hands of his people and then refuse to court martial the perpetrators of the coup, in defiance of signs of impending national upheavals. That was the height of insensitivity and arrogance. When the gates of hell were finally opened, Zik, the self acclaimed nationalist, was standing by the secessionists. when the war substantive turned in favour of the federal troops, Zik renounced his support for Biafra and joined the Nigerian side. That alone exposed him as an opportunist who was only concerned with self gratification. He only masqueraded with the nationalist show to gain power in the West, unsuccessfully. 2 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by PHAYOL81: 12:27pm On May 17, 2020 |
Like helinues had said, if the restructuring stuff is coming to reality, it's not going to be the Yorubas pulling the string; at least not now. Unless you care not to see the real picture on ground or you're just another tribe under the cloak of the Yorubas. Point blank, yorubas are right in the middle. If it breaks, good; if no one is bold to see it happen, fine. Yet, we won't be bully to submit our position; not through abuse, not through tantrums, not through FINGERING. The Yorubas are looking at the situation closely and monitoring our chances on both fronts, so they'll only take decision when they are entirely sure it's the only option left. We have interests and we have plans but like they say, you don't reveal your joker. It's a secret! Infact, I don't see any point in this opinion seeking, because no true yorubas would blab about our position or ask us to blindly tilt to a side 'cause such decision might come back to haunt. Remember, we have six zones. The answers lie hugely on what others agree to do not really what we want to do because our decision is clear. We stand in the middle. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by omonnakoda: 12:35pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid: The fundamental problem with Ibos is lies,dishonesty and revisionism If anyone has done anything to keep you in Nigeria against your will it is Hausa and Fulani Why are you too cowardly to face them. Why transfer your aggression to Yoruba. Stockholm Syndrome Your antecedents in the first republic are well known to those old enough to remember directly or from research. You want Yoruba to pretend those things did not happen. You concoct the fiction of Yoruba fighting to keep you in Nigeria. What is our business with you? . It is cheap emotional blackmail. Did Yoruba bring you into Nigeria? Has any Ibo elected politician ever done anything to actualize Biafra? You don't get Biafra by force or rabble rousing. In Africa you do not marry a woman by making an announcement in the market. There is a procedure. If you want Biafra your leaders know what to do?it is not a 5 month project. You need to decide are you going to follow a democratic approach or use force of arms. That is YOUR CHOICE. Nothing to do with us. If you try force then be prepared to face the consequences If not start electing people committed to Biafra to fight for it. For now you have not communicated to us officially they want Biafra, it is a rumour What did you do about Biafra when Goodluck Jonathan was in power? 7 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by mystery22: 12:36pm On May 17, 2020 |
Iceberg3:bro don't expect amen from that clown,Yoruba's are two faced cowards,they say something else and do another thing,after giving Jonathan their promise they later backstabbed him and voted buhari,who is still dealing with them badly...look at the case of femi adesina and the new cos gambari, that's a typical Yoruba man for you.... 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 12:39pm On May 17, 2020 |
diplomat058:Now let's make one thing clear. Zik never stopped any one from secession clause. And Awowolo or Western region never seceeded and Zik sent army to bring them in. Awo not only advised Gowon on dissolution of the regions. He followed it up by pushing a starvation policy to keep Igbos in Nigeria. Awolowo was very vocal in starvation policy promotion. Ironsi never dissolved the regions. So we agree on that one. Gowon did, and he had the active support of Awolowo to do so. Since we are talking about secession clause here. Let's do a little historical time line breakdown. If by any chance, the secession clause stood? How exactly could it have helped Biafra in her secession plans? The moment the military took over, the constitution ceased to exist. It was all about military decrees. In the period under discuss, Nigeria was not a republic but under military dictatorship. Secession clause like the regional arrangement Gowon met would not survive. And the constitution before the war were all altered post civil war by 1979 when the republic returned. Starting from the derivation formula to the regional government. This whole talk of secession clause talk to me, is a redundant and senseless argument instituted By Yorubas to obfuscate issues and justify their support for Nigeria unity. 2 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by LukasPodolski: 12:42pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid:You ended up saying nonsense. Abidjan is not in the exit point albeit facing the Atlantic ocean. Accra is not in the South Western part. Same with Lome. What about the landlocked countries, can you tell us how the Masters choosed the capital? See excuse..... Ph has a lot of mangrove, Tah Tah Tah. What about Warri, so the competition was later between Calabar which is situated in the far easterner and Lagos, taught you said they were looking for a quick point of exit, why was the competition between the far eastern Calabar and Lagos, what happened to Delta. Lagos has always been the most developed city and will never cease. Below is Africa Map, Accra, Abidjan Lome are not in the exit point (albeit facing the Atlantic) You can as well tell us how the Masters choose the capitals for landlocked countries. Nonsense. 5 Likes
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Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by diplomat058(m): 12:42pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid:Bro, once again, your post is erroneous. I debunked your claim that Yorubas are always united by hate, by giving you a rundown of historical events that proved otherwise. The Kiriji war was a civil one and civil wars are not peculiar to Yorubas. Just as I highlighted some civil wars among the greatest of the world civilization. I don't know why you had to bring back the defeated claim. And you said Igbos are always united by hate. Well, I am just knowing that from you. Yorubas don't hate people, rather, we are united by love. Love to have a strong and prosperous nation. Hate is not an option; how many people do you want to hate? Millions? Hate makes you hallucinate at nights. The Yorubas don't hate any ethnic group in Nigeria. We only look out for ourselves and our prosperity and peace, and when you are in the way, we may come together to run you over. After the scores are settled, we will again be at peace with you. That is called STRATEGY OF SURVIVAL. Some people, naively, call it betrayal, but we don't care. So, know that the Yoruba Man is not after you. If he is, some won't prosper so much in his land that they begin to question its established indigenousness. 7 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 12:49pm On May 17, 2020 |
omonnakoda: Yorubas were part and parcel of the alliance that fought to keep Igbos in Nigeria between 1967-70. Infact it was noted by neutral observers that Yoruba hate for Biafra surpassed those of other Nigerian groups. Adekunle scorpion was shooting at anything that moves in PH, Taiwo was involved in Asaba massacre. Your people were very active in Nigerian civil war effort. Awolowo was the masterminder of the starvation policy that killed millions of Igbos in bid to end Biafrans resolve to fight. Even today, the most active and vocal resistance to Biafra on internet are Yorubas. We can get Biafra by any means we think it's best. It's not in your place to tell us how to go about it. If it's actually true you have nothing against us getting Biafra, how we go about it shouldn't be your damn concern you would even help us speed it up. But the reality on ground betray your lies. You hate the mention of Biafra. You don't see any Igbos worried about how you are going about your Odua republic, we just want you to sincerely go for it. 2 Likes |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by helinues: 12:57pm On May 17, 2020 |
PHAYOL81: Well said |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by LukasPodolski: 12:59pm On May 17, 2020 |
4Play:Well, I will not rubbish your opinion sir. But don't let us shy away from the fact that There is division in the country which will always justify my use of the word "HOST" If we can send away Almajiri from Southern Nigeria then I have every right to call myself a host, are almajiris not Nigerian? If a certain ethnic group can carry out a coup targeted at others. A major ethnic group being referred to as betrayers. And lots more. The above justified my use of HOST. But who do we blame? What is the way out? The way out is separation and the last ethnic group to call for division is Ndigbos because their Foremost Leader was the only one that supported removal of succession clause. Restructuring : Nigeria was practicing Regional government before an Igbo man abolished it. Today the ethnic group clamouring for Division and restructuring are the Ndigbos. The blame should be on diversity (an Ndigbos for supporting it from the start). Personally I wouldn't blame Buhari because if I were him I will Care for my tribe more than others. |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 12:59pm On May 17, 2020 |
diplomat058: You defeated no claim. Kiriji and operation Wetie are living proofs of Yoruba inability to live relatively peaceful with each other when other groups are out of the picture. Civil Wars do occur, but yours were more than that. The Western region once Midwest left broke down into Awolowo and Akintola factions. If not for Nzeogwu stupidity who gave you lots respite by going to start a stupid coup, your region was about imploding. National unities are built on hate. You don't deceive anyone. When Yorubas were delivering Yoruba Ronu speech, where you demonized Ndiigbo to unite yourselves, that's the hate. When you go green with envy and start plotting evil at the mention of Biafra or Igbos, that's hate. Nations are built on hate. Hate for subjugation, hate for domination, hate for poverty, hate for ideologies. You unite a people by giving them something to hate and fear. Yoruba and love? Hmm. All over Social media, I see Yorubas convulsing like earthworms on salt at the mention of Biafra. You deceive no one. Stay on your lane, and Ndiigbo will not mind you. We have no desire to share a country with you, we expect the feelings to be mutual. But your negativity towards Biafra betrays this. |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by mabea: 1:04pm On May 17, 2020 |
4Play:Words from the wise |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 1:06pm On May 17, 2020 |
LukasPodolski: Ironsi never abolished the regions. When Ironsi died. There were four regional military regional governors still intact. Gowon with Awolowo support abolished the regions and created dysfunctional states, because they were only interested in sowing seeds of division in Biafra and not looking out for Nigeria interest thereafter. They chose to abolish the regional set ups over accepting Aburi agreement. Let's stop with the history revisionism already. The blame of dissolution of Nigeria regional structures lie fully on Gowon and Awolowo, ie Northern and Yoruba table. If Gowon and Awolowo didn't dissolve the regions, by the time Mutala Muhammad was killed And OBJ handed handed over to Shagari. Nigeria would have still had four regions and would simply reverse back to default regional settings. |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by diplomat058(m): 1:06pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid:No, the talk about secession is not a nonsense. Let me tell you how things would have played out if it was included in the 1960 constitution. Of course, the constitution is always suspended when there is a successful military coup. But Soldiers rule by martial codes called decrees and in Nigeria, the decrees were mostly extracts from the suspended constitution to provide an operational framework for governance. And whenever military men were about to hand over, they would oversee the creation of a new constitution. The new constitution was always drafted in reference to that of the old. The only major transitional changes that occurred were only between the 1963 and the 1979 constitutions in the change from parliamentary region-based federal republic to a presidential state-based federal republic. The rests were strictly replicas and minor reviews of the old. Now, if the secession clause was in the 1963 constitution, would the Biafra secession be much of a big illegal deal, technically? If the clause was to be removed in the succeeding constitution of 1979, would that not spark chaos and resistance like that of June 12? |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Igboid: 1:15pm On May 17, 2020 |
diplomat058: Gowon and Awolowo that dissolved the regions in attempt to stop Biafra exodus would have allowed the secession clause exist so that Biafrans can activate and leave Nigeria? Are you listening to yourself? The regions were constitutionally inshrined, even Ironsi didn't abolish them, he only centralized civil service and command structures, yet Gowon and Awo had no fuss dismantling the regions, yet you want the audience to believe they would have allowed a stupid clause stay? Military decrees only legitimate parts of the constitution that doesn't interfere with their own agenda. Anything else that does, is easily changed. The period of history was a dictatorship era. Secession clause is a civilian law. If the regions went, so would have the clause. All I see with this redundant secession clause arguments is that Yorubas are in love with Nigeria and are in hunt for whatever senseless reason to justify why Ndiigbo should continue existing in same country with them. Because it doesn't even make sense anymore. Secession clause wouldn't have made things easier for the Eastern region, as the clause would have been the first thing Awolowo and Gowon would tackle, seeing the way they easily dissolved the regions. 1 Like |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Iceberg3: 1:15pm On May 17, 2020 |
mystery22: Yep. They backstabbed gej and the SS in particular and the south in general. Strange and funny thing is,they want the same SS to support them come 2023, can you imagine that!!? Na do life come be? You ruined my chances after how many years the SS have relegated to the background despite feeding the country,not for yourself or another southerner but lo and behold,a northerner and now you are seeking for my support for what is not yours!!!? What an abomination of a people!! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Iceberg3: 1:17pm On May 17, 2020 |
LukasPodolski: I never quoted you in the beginning,you were the zb that quoted me from your ar... And I remember telling you to gedda4kOuttaMySight!!!!!!! |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by LukasPodolski: 1:19pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid:This is not even something to argue on. You can't rewrite history, Ironsi killed the Regional government. |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by LukasPodolski: 1:21pm On May 17, 2020 |
Iceberg3:Goan kill yourself. Brain dead.
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Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Iceberg3: 1:23pm On May 17, 2020 |
Igboid: This is very deep and full of wisdom. This ain't for the ordinary. This is for the discerning,for those who read between lines to see the big picture. But comrade,I bet you,they will misconstrue and misunderstand and misinterprete you. 1 Like |
Re: The South West And Nigeria: A Call For Opinions by Iceberg3: 1:24pm On May 17, 2020 |
LukasPodolski:
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