₦airaland Forum

Blabbermouth:
ShadeYinka, please I want you to clarify this:
Is Christ a different person from the lamb of God?

DrLiveLogic:
1/ how Light had to produce a light(lucifer) that produced darkness. Where then did the darkness or its possibility arise from, if its grandparent is Light without darkness.

2/ Also what does God then mean by claiming to know good and evil in Genesis 3:22.

3/ after a sinner chooses, does God then know the sinner's present and also his end which according to you isn't part of God's foreknowledge?

4/ If he then knows, has he then updated his knowledge and become more than what he initially was? and yet many other questions.

5/ how God predicts the future of both the good and the evil, like Jacob and Esau etc., before they even make their choices

6/ whose names are not in the book of life and why do these people exist since they are not part of God's foreknowledge.

7/ and how they could create a reality that didn't exist in God. Is the end then different from the beginning?

8/ What is meant in Isaiah 45:7, how God forms light and creates darkness and good and evil.

9/ As for his case with Isaiah 46:10, he ended up just replacing God's forthtelling with foreknowledge which are two distinct attributes of God and he does both. Forthtelling is how he brings his foreknowledge to play in this movie.

shadeyinka:
Not different.
However, at a point in time about 2000 years ago, the Word became fully flesh. The Flesh from the Word is called the Anointed One, Messiah or Christ Jesus.

shadeyinka:
This is the summary of your talk!

My position:

Blabbermouth:
No sir.
Did God foreknow salvation or did he declare salvation?

God did no foreknow salvation, God foreknew the PERSON who would be saved
Rom 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

[quote author=Blabbermouth post=93178003]I am not getting you o. Are you saying Christ is different from the Lamb? Christ is the Lamb of God nah...

Of course, Christ is the Lamb of God.

[quote author=Blabbermouth post=93178003]Yes sir, although close to impossible, such can happen.

Is there any of your question I skipped? I don't think so sir.

Blabbermouth:
Let's clear this please: Are you saying future is "a period of time" I.e. 10pm-Infinity Pm or future is "what will happen in a period of time" I.e what will happen from 10pm-Infinity PM?
Also sir, Define prophecy please.

shadeyinka:
The future is just a YET to be spent time duration. That was why I asked you simple questions about 11pm tonight knowing that it is a time yet to be spent. Is 11pm tonight then the past, present or future?

The future isn't "what I will do" nor "what will happen" but the TIME not yet spent. When that time comes, them we can do things and things can happen.

[color] Can there be HOPE if there is no FUTURE? [/color]

Jer 29:11:
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end ."

Is the expected end not in future?

shadeyinka:
The future isn't "what I will do" nor "what will happen" but the TIME not yet spent.

So, when we ask the question: "Does God know the future?", What we are asking is :
"Does God know about our unspent time and what we'll do with it/what will happen in it?

[color] Can there be HOPE if there is no FUTURE? [/color]

Jer 29:11:
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end ."

Is the expected end not in future?

Blabbermouth:
Why then did you juxtapose between them and said "Christ was slain 2000+ years ago while the lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world?"

shadeyinka:
When was Jesus Christ crucified?
Who crucified Him?
Why was He crucified?

Was the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world CRUCIFIED or SLAIN?

Blabbermouth:
Compare this...
...with this. You just contradicted yourself sir.

The future isn't "what I will do" nor "what will happen" but the TIME not yet spent.

So, when we ask the question: "Does God know the future?", What we are asking is :
"Does God know about our unspent time and what we'll do with it/what will happen in it?

Blabbermouth:
You said the future is not " what I will do",,, now you are saying that the question: "Does God the future?" Means that "Does God know about our unspent time and what we will do with it/what will happen in it?
You see, you were not able to separate the " what I will do" and the "time not yet spent".

Blabbermouth:
You yourself said - Time is an INTERVAL OF EVENTS! In fact, I will go search for it and quote it again.

Yes sir! That is where hope is fully at work!
If there is a future, why do you pray?

Blabbermouth:
Do you see why atheists bash many Christian easily?

See your last question again... Now compare that with the book of revelations... Is the book of revelation just TIME YET SPENT or WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN TIME YET SPENT?
Weren't you the one asking me What the book of revelation is, if a future does not exist?

Blabbermouth:
Abeggii... We all have the same definition or perception of future, I don't know why you are trying to invent something new.

Blabbermouth:
Hurray! I know the future everybody. I know the future!
The future is 11pm!
The future is 12am!
The future is tomorrow!
Huray! I know the past everybody! I know the past!
The past is 8pm!
The past is 7pm!
The past is yesterday!
The past is 9/9/2019!
Hurray! I know the present!
The present is 19 minutes after 10
Hurray! I am omniscient !
ShadeYinka, do you now see the kasala you've just created?
Infact MuttleyLaff is Omniscient, even DrLiveLogic is omniscient, even you yourself are Omniscient!

shadeyinka:
.......
But
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN TIME YET UNSPENT?

shadeyinka:
Aren't you confused?

Blabbermouth:
Excuse me sir, you are going off board.
To be slain is to be killed. To be crucified is to be killed. They are the same thing in this context! Read your Bible again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
God who speaks to things which are yet not as though they are. Christ has not been crucified yet but God speaks as though he has died and redeemed us already. That's it!
Please you are really shaking so many things by still trying to hold on to this nonsensical future theory.

Blabbermouth:
You and Shadeyinka are using Man's measurement of time. I am Using God's measurement of time. There is nothing like 11pm to God, everything is NOW!
That I why He says, I am the Beginning And at the same instant, The Ending....

Blabbermouth:
MuttleyLaff, I also want to know where you stand on this;
1. Did God make salvation possible (i.e Did he declare salvation) or was it Just something He knew of by foreknowledge?
2. Is Christ a different person from the lamb of God?

MuttleyLaff:
God is "I AM, that I AM" God will be and become whatever is necessary for Him, His purpose(s), His objective(s), His aims, His plan(s) et cetera

God is Mysterious. In Yoruba cosmology and mythology, His essence and nature is beautifully captured, the best, in being identified and called "Eledumare" or "Olodumare", the portmanteau Yoruba word, when loosely translated means, the Owner or Custodian of absolute energy and infinite mysteries, who has knowledge of all blessings

MuttleyLaff:
"Jesus said to them,
“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God;
nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me."
- John 8:42

"Exerchomai" is the Greek original word translated as "proceeded forth". By definition, it means, to go or come out of, with mention of the place out of which one goes, or of the point from which one departs. John 8:42 above, makes no mistake, where from Jesus proceeded forth and came from.

blue\Agent & okosunehis, Jesus Christ is God and even god sef, just as I've earlier said and especially if that's how or a way Hairy\rapunzel understands to put it.

No, I am not blue\Agent & okosune\his, implying that Jesus and God are the same entity, but I am emphatically saying that Jesus and God are the same entity.

blue\Agent & okosune\his, listen and watch this. I put on different attire colours to reflect my mood and image I am trying to project across. I could put on a red dress to make a statement that I am fiery, vibrant and lively. The colours are not me, they are images reflecting certain aspects of me. It's the same with God, the maleness and femaleness is not God, they are just constructs made in the image of God. God really isnt male nor female

We all know what kind of image one is projecting when wearing black colours, it could be for mourning or for trying to look sexy

The "the only begotten" phrase, means the only person uniquely gotten this way. The phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus, as a mother, like women do.

blueAgent & okosunehis, God is formless. God is a Spirit, and so has no form. God however does have masculine and feminine distinctive personalities plus characteristics associated with man and woman

Before either of youse step and slip on my "God is formless" banana skin comment, let me make myself clearer with the comment, by adding to it, that God is shapeless and formless like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. When you pour water into a drum, it becomes the drum of water. That is why when Moses asked God who should he say sent him, if asked by the Israelites, God said to him, say, I AM I AM sent you.

I AM I AM, in that narrative, means I shall be that I shall be, also means whatever it is necessary for God to be, that, God will be. God willl be a pillar of cloud in the day and become a pillar of fire to give them light at night. God is formless, yet God can take on any form. I know it sounds like an oxymoron thing to say it that way, but God, though truly is formless, can manifest Himself in any form, just as in that Nebucadnezzer fiery furnace and etcetera

MuttleyLaff:
Think of God, this way, H₂0, sent itself into the world. H₂0 caused and allowed itself to be visible as solid ice.

Christ cannot share the same body with God the Father, because God is formless. God has no clear definite shape or size. Jesus Christ is the product of God projecting Himself as a human being in the person of Jesus Christ on earth. Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God

Though Jesus was God, He did not think of equality with God, as something to cling to.
Instead, He gave up his divine privileges. He took the humble position of a servant and was born as a human being, and so God appeared on earth, in human form, as in, the person of Jesus Christ, His Son

blueAgent & okosunehis, God can send Himself, did send Himself to earth, in the form of Jesus Christ. God simultaneously can be in more than one place at a time (i.e. God can be in Heaven and on earth, at the same time) Note that, Jesus didnt correct people that addressed Him as God, for example, where and when said: "My Lord, My God" to Him.

Its often said, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. Something to be done right is exactly what it's all about and so what God did. This is a matter of the classsic diy aka Do-It-Yourself.

God looked for someone who could build walls or looked for someone to stand in the breach in His presence on behalf of the world so that it won't be destroyed, but He found no one and so God is lumbered with, doing a classic Do-It-Yourself by sending Himself to carry out the redemptive work.

This will explain what the bible said and/or is saying about "begotten" The word translated as "begotten", i[b]s the greek word[/b] "monogene." "Monogene", means, one and only or better still, one of a kind

Now the word "monogene", is a combination of the root words: "mono" (one or only) and "genos" (of a class or kind) hence "begotten", in the context, or "monogene" in the context means "the only of its kind"

Now, "monogene" occurred also, when similarly used over Isaac, and that is where and when Isaac was referred to, as only son, even when Abraham already had an older son, Ishmael

Isaac was unique, was one and only or one of a kind son. Unique in the sense that, an impotent man and menopaused woman had a child, the promised son, Isaac (i.e. child in a class of its own, this miracle never again has been repeated)

To just clear each other, "begotten" in the Jesus' context, isn’t about procreation or some fantasied sexual intercourse

Jesus, is the last Adam, and second man. The first man Adam became a living soul, whereas, Jesus, the last Adam, became a life-giving spirit

The first man, Adam, is of the earth, earthy, came from earth; while the second man, Jesus Christ is from heaven, came from heaven. Alleluia.

"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge,
and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none
(i.e. I looked for someone who might rebuild the wall of righteousness that guards the land.
I searched for someone to stand in the gap in the wall so I wouldn’t have to destroy the land, but I found no one.)"
- Ezekiel 22:30

"He saw that there was no man—He was amazed that there was no one—to intercede;
so His own arm brought salvation, and His own righteousness sustained Him."
- Isaiah 59:16

"I was amazed to see that no one intervened to help the oppressed.
So I myself stepped in to save them with my strong arm, and my wrath sustained me
(i.e. I looked, but there was no one to help; I was shocked because there was no one offering support.
So my right arm accomplished deliverance or achieved salvation for me, my raging anger drove me on)"
- Isaiah 63:5

blue\Agent & okosune\his, you must have quite a lot of times, heard the saying that "If you want something done right, do it yourself", well none, nobody, no angel out of the whole angelic hosts of heaven, nor no man out of the whole world wide, offered to accept the challenge to help man get returned back to man's original status before the fall, so God resorted to DIY

blue\Agent & okosune\his, you know that Christ, means Saviour, right?. So if you do, how then do suppose God will be able to pull this off this God's redemptive work, if Christ isnt God and man, hmm? Give this some thought blue\Agent & okosune\his

"Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the LORD of hosts."
Malachi 3:1

Of course, Jesus is an angel, Malachi 3:1 confirms Him being a Messenger. This is God sending Himself on an errand. Praise God. Alleluia.

Blabbermouth:
Kosi problem..
Let me oblige your new introduction.
You claimed - God foreknows what will happen IN the Future.
Now I am saying - There is Nothing like What will happen in the future ...
Are we cool now?
PS: Everyone except you understood this as my view.

shadeyinka:
I am not everybody!
I do not understand this your view. For my own God is omnipresent in all time (past, present and future) and all space. Therefore, He sees the future as easily as He sees the past and present.

shadeyinka:
Crucifixion:
Is to kill through asphyxiation by hanging a person by his limbs usually on a wooden contraption.

Slay(slain):
To kill

Crucifixion is just one method of killing.


Was the LAMB of God in Rev13:8 crucified?
That was the question!

MuttleyLaff:
1. Did God make salvation possible (i.e Did he declare salvation) or was it Just something He knew of by foreknowledge?
Response:
It is a combination of both

2. Is Christ a different person from the lamb of God?
Response:
God is "I AM that I AM" God will be whatever is necessary for Him to be[/size]

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Blabbermouth:
No sir, you are the one confused.
I'm showing you how empty 11pm is without what will happen in 11pm.
You said- Yesterday, Last year, Last Decade is PAST
This current time is Present
Tomorrow, Next year and Next Decade is FUTURE...
As long as it doesn't entail "What will happen IN it, then we are all omniscient"....

shadeyinka:
Slow down and analyse what you've just written.

The Past is Spent TIME duration
The Present is Current TIME duration
The Future is Yet to be Spent TIME duration

The Past contain so many event events that no one in the world know a fraction: how much more the future!

Blabbermouth:
Talk to me, what do you mean by God sees the future ?
Also, Define prophecy...
Let me not lie for you, it's almost as if another person is using your account to reply me. This is not the same person I engaged yesterday.

shadeyinka:
What then is Prophecy if the future does not exist?
Why is the book of Revelation speaking of a nonexistent future?

shadeyinka:
What is prophecy if not relaying the FUTURE?

shadeyinka:
But if that is the case,
1. What is prophecy

Acts 21:11:
"And when he was come to us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus said the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that ownes this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles."

shadeyinka:
The future is dynamic and changeable. What the Seer sees are only what I have done with my present set of choices within my available constraints.

Blabbermouth:
You said this again... Is Acts21:11 time or what will happen in time?
Again sir, everyone including you have been focused on the content.

Blabbermouth:
You said this ooo.
What shall we say then, that prophecy is relaying tomorrow and not what will happen tommorow.
Boss Boss, we've been focused on the content I don't know why you are bringing something new now.

shadeyinka:
Acts21:11 was an example of prophecy I gave you when you said the future doesn't exist

Acts21:11 is a prophecy of the future for Paul (what will happen in the time yet to be spent/the future).

Acts 21:11 is NOT time.

Blabbermouth:
Let me remind of your very own words...
See this!
We both know prophecy is not about time alone, Prophecy is "what will happen In Time "