₦airaland Forum

MuttleyLaff:
"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only He has seen the Father."
(i.e. Not that anyone has ever seen the Father; only I, who was sent from God, have seen Him)
- John 6:46

John 6:46 above, makes it very clear and leaves no room for confusion or doubt, that it is only Jesus who came from the Father, that has seen the Father. No other human being yet has seen God

Jesus is God. Suck it up.

No Man has ever seen God at anytime!(Exodus 33:20; John 1:​18; 1 John 4:​12)
People did see Jesus
what does that tells you?

MuttleyLaff:
"¹In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
²He existed in the beginning with God.
³God created everything through Him, and nothing was created except through Him.
⁴The Word gave life to everything that was created, and His life brought light to everyone.
⁵The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.
⁶God sent a man, John the Baptist,
⁷to tell about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony.
⁸John himself was not the light; he was simply a witness to tell about the light.
⁹The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
¹⁰He came into the very world He created, but the world didn’t recognize Him.
11He came to His own people, and even they rejected Him.
¹²But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.
¹³They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.
¹⁴So the Word became human and made His home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness."
- John 1:1-14

@DeepSight, who identifiably and/or specifically, is that featured in the "running commentary" of John 1:1-14?

I do not consider the Bible to be a source or authority for innerant truth, and even if I did, there are way too many contrary verses within the same bible on the subject.

I have previously discussed this extensively with the soundest Christian Trinitarian ever to grace this forum here -
https://www.nairaland.com/1341464/anony-deep-sight-verse-verse

- - - If you take a look, at the minimum, you will agree there are many verses for and against.

MuttleyLaff:
Jesus is God. Suck it up.

I should be used to this, but honestly I simply cant get over how comical it is for people to look at a fellow man and insist he is the almighty creator of all existence. Way too comical.

haddeylium:
now, look at how this rendered your post there useless!
You claimed Jesus' is 100% God_Man
So, in what way is he made lower than the Angels?
In what way is he exalted above them?

Yes Jesus is 100% God but he upon dis not dwell on that reputation but took upon himself human nature hence making him less than the angels.

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

MuttleyLaff:
1) Are you 100001% sure, that God is limited to exist in three persons only, lmso?

It is not a matter of limitation or not, It is matter of revelation.

2) What is the clear, logical and convincing reason why God is or has to be expressed in three persons, lmso?

your question is like asking for the reason why 1+1 should be 2

3) Is God limited to being only in three persons?

yes, God only exist as three persons.

4) Is it impossible for God to manifest Himself, in no more than the three persons expression?

The trinity is not a manifestation but rather an existence, God did manifest as God, no, he is God. God didnt manifest as trinity rather he is trinity.

5) What are the many forms that God is known to exist or had exist as?

sorry, trinity is not forms of God

livingchrist:
It is not a matter of limitation or not, It is matter of revelation.

According to your "revelation" is God limited to exist in three persons only, lmso? Is your response Yes or No?

livingchrist:
your question is like asking for the reason why 1+1 should be 2

It would interest you to know that 1+1 shouldn't necessarily be 2, lmso, better still, Infinity 1+1+1=1 (i.e. Genesis 2:24, Deuteronomy 6:4, Mark 10:8, Mark 12:29 & John 1:1-2)

livingchrist:
yes, God only exist as three persons.

"⁷And the LORD said to Moses,
⁸“Take the staff and assemble the congregation. You and your brother Aaron are to speak to the rock while they watch, and it will pour out its water. You will bring out water from the rock and provide drink for the congregation and their livestock.”
⁹So Moses took the staff from the LORD’s presence, just as he had been commanded.
¹⁰Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly in front of the rock, and Moses said to them, “Listen now, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?”
¹¹Then Moses raised his hand and struck the rock twice with his staff, so that a great amount of water gushed out, and the congregation and their livestock were able to drink.
¹²But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust Me to show My holiness in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them."
- Numbers 20:7-12

Who is the Angel of the Lord? (i.e. Genesis 16:9-10, Genesis 22:15 et cetera)
Who is the pillar of cloud at day guiding the Israelites and pillar of fire at night providing light so the Israelites could travel during their exodus from Egypt?

Who is the Rock that Moshe aka Moses whipped when he was asked to ordinarily just speak to the Rock?

livingchrist:
[s]The trinity is not a manifestation but rather an existence, God did manifest as God, no, he is God. God didnt manifest as trinity rather he is trinity.

sorry, trinity is not forms of God[/s]

Sorry for yourself. Yahshua Ha Mashiah aka Jesus Christ, is God incarnate, meaning since God is a Spirit, since God is incorporeal, He manifested Himself, as a human being, that is, in the person of Yahshua Ha Mashiah aka Jesus Christ, so that He can clearly visually and physically be seen, but most importantly to carry out the redemption, salvation and reconciliation plan of the human kind back to God.

What was Yahshua Ha Mashiah aka Jesus Christ while on earth if not as the Son of man (i.e. the form of a human being). Smh sigh.

livingchrist:
Yes Jesus is 100% God but he upon dis not dwell on that reputation but took upon himself human nature hence making him less than the angels.

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Now, look at how hilarious and foolish this sound

@ Your suppose Almighty God and Creator is 100% God in his human nature but he's lesser than his Creation.
@He chooses not to dwell in it. Those that nullify it?

How you shy away from 'Divine nature' makes someone God is a start . Allowing scriptures to explain itself.

Meditate on Hebrew 1: 1-9
focus on:

1:3-4...he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs

9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.

He (Jesus) was anointed above his companion . Who are they?

MuttleyLaff:
According to your "revelation" is God limited to exist in three persons only, lmso? Is your response Yes or No?

It would interest you to know that 1+1 shouldn't necessarily be 2, lmso, better still, Infinity 1+1+1=1 (i.e. Genesis 2:24, Deuteronomy 6:4, Mark 10:8, Mark 12:29 & John 1:1-2)

"⁷And the LORD said to Moses,
⁸“Take the staff and assemble the congregation. You and your brother Aaron are to speak to the rock while they watch, and it will pour out its water. You will bring out water from the rock and provide drink for the congregation and their livestock.”
⁹So Moses took the staff from the LORD’s presence, just as he had been commanded.
¹⁰Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly in front of the rock, and Moses said to them, “Listen now, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?”
¹¹Then Moses raised his hand and struck the rock twice with his staff, so that a great amount of water gushed out, and the congregation and their livestock were able to drink.
¹²But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust Me to show My holiness in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them."
- Numbers 20:7-12

Who is the Angel of the Lord? (i.e. Genesis 16:9-10, Genesis 22:15 et cetera)
Who is the pillar of cloud at day guiding the Israelites and pillar of fire at night providing light so the Israelites could travel during their exodus from Egypt?

Who is the Rock that Moshe aka Moses whipped when he was asked to ordinarily just speak to the Rock?

Sorry for yourself. Yahshua Ha Mashiah aka Jesus Christ, is God incarnate, meaning since God is a Spirit, since God is incorporeal, He manifested Himself, as a human being, that is, in the person of Yahshua Ha Mashiah aka Jesus Christ, so that He can clearly visually and physically be seen, but most importantly to carry out the redemption, salvation and reconciliation plan of the human kind back to God.

What was Yahshua Ha Mashiah aka Jesus Christ while on earth if not as the Son of man (i.e. the form of a human being). Smh sigh.

you hardly understand a thing before responding.
How does all these relate with op?

haddeylium:
Now, look at how hilarious and foolish this sound

@ Your suppose Almighty God and Creator is 100% God in his human nature but he's lesser than his Creation.
@He chooses not to dwell in it. Those that nullify it?

How you shy away from 'Divine nature' makes someone God is a start . Allowing scriptures to explain itself.

Meditate on Hebrew 1: 1-9
focus on:

1:3-4...he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs

9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.

He (Jesus) was anointed above his companion . Who are they?

I dont know what part in op you do not understand?

Jesus was God, yes but he took up a lower nature, meaning he was both God and man at the same time but chosed to function in the lower nature, making him temporarily lower than the Angel's, after finishing his work he was exalted above the angelic beings.
Lol, Jesus companions are his disciples.

livingchrist:
I dont know what part in op you do not understand?

Jesus was God, yes but he took up a lower nature, meaning he was both God and man at the same time but chosed to function in the lower nature, making him temporarily lower than the Angel's, after finishing his work he was exalted above the angelic beings.

Jesus is no longer human and not in that lower nature right?
Guyyyyy

Lol, Jesus companions are his disciples
.he was exalted above the angelic beings.

Disciples means student, learners. All Jesus disciples are the peer/companion.
After he was seated at the right hand of God. He was exalted above his companion/peer. who are they ?

haddeylium:
Jesus is no longer human and not in that lower nature right?
Guyyyyy

where did you see Jesus is no longer in lower nature?

Disciples means student, learners. All Jesus disciples are the peer/companion.
After he was seated at the right hand of God. He was exalted above his companion/peer. who are they ?

enlighten yourself, who did Jesus call his brethren?

livingchrist:
you hardly understand a thing before responding.
How does all these relate with op?

I easily understand that you want to box God up into trinity, knowing fully well that that trinity isnt a doctrine explicitly taught in scripture and that for a very good reason which you arrogantly are oblivious of, lmso

What do you think is easier for you to do? Dodge questions you have difficulties easily answering them or just bite the bullet to frankly and outrightly give your answers to the questions asked you.

If you have truthfully, sincerely and honestly answered the questions, you would come to the know of how all those relate with your lacking depth original post and all

livingchrist:
If this question means to ask “Is Jesus really God?” or “Is Jesus God in the flesh?” then the answer would be “Yes—Jesus is fully divine. He has all the attributes of God” (see Colossians 2:9).

However, the question could be interpreted another way, which would require a different answer. Theologically speaking, Jesus and the Father are different Persons of the Trinity. They are one in nature and essence, but they are different in personhood.

There is an ancient heresy called modalism (and a more modern variation called Oneness theology), which teaches that God does not exist in three co-equal, co-eternal Persons, but only one. According to modalism, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three individual Persons but simply three modes of revelation: sometimes God reveals Himself as the Father, other times as the Son, and still other times as the Holy Spirit. If the question is asked, “are Jesus and God the Father the same person?” the modalist would answer “yes,” but biblical Trinitarians would answer “no.”

The doctrine of the Trinity is the best explanation for all of the biblical evidence. There is only one God, but He exists eternally as three individual Persons and has revealed Himself as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. This is different from the teaching of three individual gods because the three Persons of the Trinity are co-equal, co-eternal, interdependent, and always in complete agreement. There is one God who exists as three individual Persons. Thus, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; however, the Father is not the same person as the Son, nor is the Son the same person as the Holy Spirit. This is sometimes complicated by the fact that God the Father is often simply called “God” in the New Testament.

The first three verses of the Gospel of John give us an idea of how this works out:

John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word . . . (We know from verse 14 that the Word is Jesus. In the beginning, He was already there.)

. . . and the Word was with God . . . (At least two Persons are in view here: one called “God” and one called “the Word.”)

. . . and the Word was God (The Word is distinct from God, yet He is also called “God.” The Word is divine in His essential nature.)

John 1:2. He was with God in the beginning (After the essential identification of the Word as God, once again the distinction is emphasized—He was with God when it all began.)

John 1:3. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made (Here, we see that the Word is actually the Creator. He made everything. In the Old Testament, we are told that God created everything—Genesis 1:1.)

It is this kind of biblical information that led to the formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity. When “God” is spoken of in the Old Testament, most people probably think of God the Father, but it would be more accurate to think of “God the Trinity.” In the New Testament, we see how each Person of the Trinity assumed different roles in the redemption of lost humanity, but the different Persons are always in complete agreement, acting as one.

Jesus is God, but Jesus (who is God the Son) is not the same Person as God the Father or God the Holy Spirit

How is jesus different from us..if he was human?

MuttleyLaff:
I easily understand that you want to box God up into trinity, knowing fully well that that trinity isnt a doctrine explicitly taught in scripture and that for a very good reason which you arrogantly are oblivious of, lmso

What do you think is easier for you to do? Dodge questions you have difficulties easily answering them or just bite the bullet to frankly and outrightly give your answers to the questions asked you.

If you have truthfully, sincerely and honestly answered the questions, you would come to the know of how all those relate with your lacking depth original post and all

sorry mutleylaff, I take the bible as the inerrant word of God, simply imagining God to be infinite persons is totally unbiblical an illogical at best.

sonmvayina:
How is jesus different from us..if he was human?

He is different from us because he is also God and a glorified human.

livingchrist:
sorry mutleylaff, I take the bible as the inerrant word of God, simply imagining God to be infinite persons is totally unbiblical an illogical at best.

Sorry livingchrist, simply put God cannot be contained.

Just as well and like you claim you do, I too, take the bible as the inerrant word of God. Now fact is, there is a very good reason why scripture hasn't got trinity written anywhere in it bro. Mull that over nah

livingchrist:
He is different from us because he is also God and a glorified human.

What about us ?

livingchrist:
He is different from us because he is also God and a glorified human.

All the explaination of God you just formed ehnn . Remember the day God would ask you who told you this

livingchrist:
where did you see Jesus is no longer in lower nature?]

So, Jesus is still in that lower Nature

enlighten yourself, who did Jesus call his brethren?

We're discussing Jesus hierarchy after he has been seated at the God's right hand?
So, his students (disciples) are in the same(peer) rank with him?
And he was made better than them

MuttleyLaff:
Sorry livingchrist, simply put God cannot be contained.

Just as well and like you claim you do, I too, take the bible as the inerrant word of God. Now fact is, there is a very good reason why scripture hasn't got trinity written anywhere in it bro. Mull that over nah

Neither has the scriptures gotten bible written in it

sonmvayina:
What about us ?

we are in corruptible state

haddeylium:
So, Jesus is still in that lower Nature

lower the God but higher than the angels

We're discussing Jesus hierarchy after he has been seated at the God's right hand?
So, his students (disciples) are in the same(peer) rank with him?
And he was made better than them

the students, disciples have same nature, Jesus called them brethren.


Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Jesus called his disciples his friends or companions.

John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.


I know where you are driving at, Angels are not Jesus companions first
Angels didn't have same nature with Angel's

Hebrews 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Secondly, Jesus was a little lower than the angels during his earthly life

Hebrews 2:7
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:


But in heaven he is far above the angels.

The companions are humans like Jesus, his disciples.

Theguided:
All the explaination of God you just formed ehnn . Remember the day God would ask you who told you this

I didnt form them, they were extrapolated from the bible.

[quote author=livingchrist post=97486312]Neither has the scythe word trinity is, lmso. Please stay focussed, lmso

Yahshua Ha Mashiah aka Jesus Christ, God in flesh, our Creator, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, specifically made mention of scripture (i.e. the law and what the prophets said) but not at all, not even at night, under the cloak of secret and darkness à la Nicodemus, did He ever mention trinity, let alone teach about it.

You're like a dog with a bone over the trinity, that no one in scripture, not even in the fringes, ever discussed trinity, which interestingly enough is a word first used in the writing of Theophilus of Antioch in the late 2nd century.

livingchrist:
lower the God but higher than the angels

How could Almighty God be lower than anyone?

the students, disciples have same nature, Jesus called them brethren.
Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus called his disciples his friends or companions.
John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
I know where you are driving at, Angels are not Jesus companions first
Angels didn't have same nature with Angel's
Hebrews 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Secondly, Jesus was a little lower than the angels during his earthly life
Hebrews 2:7
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
But in heaven he is far above the angels.
The companions are humans like Jesus, his disciples.

You're mixing up nature and hierarchy/rank together. But I'll leave you to it.

The more you try to prove this concept of Trinity. The more you muddy the 'Lord Jesus'. So, Jesus is in the same rank with his disciples that he had to be anointed above them right in heaven?

Remember, I'll only be considering Hebrew 1(The Subjects are Jesus and Angels)
"He was made better than angels as a flip'
Now, relate it to the verse you answered too.

Verse 13, 14
13.But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? (None, except Jesus)14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?
(Yes! They are but Jesus' was chosen to sit the right hand of God ' compare with verse 9)

(Compare with verse 5,6)
comprehende?

Trinity is the father, son and holy Spirit same way bible means scripture.

haddeylium:
How could Almighty God be lower than anyone?

yes it is, God Almightiness means he could be anything including making himself less If he wanted.

You're mixing up nature and hierarchy/rank together. But I'll leave you to it.

The more you try to prove this concept of Trinity. The more you muddy the 'Lord Jesus'. So, Jesus is in the same rank with his disciples that he had to be anointed above them right in heaven?

Remember, I'll only be considering Hebrew 1(The Subjects are Jesus and Angels)
"He was made better than angels as a flip'
Now, relate it to the verse you answered too.

Verse 13, 14
13.But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? (None, except Jesus)14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?
(Yes! They are but Jesus' was chosen to sit the right hand of God ' compare with verse 9)

(Compare with verse 5,6)
comprehende?

you are confusing yourself the more, how can Angel's be Jesus companion if he was a little lower than them and also have same nature? The same reason you eliminated the disciples as Jesus companions has also eliminated the angels.
But Jesus called his disciples friends which means companions, rank in this case does not matter.

The question is, was Jesus an angelic spirit? Was he not a man? There is your answer! Jesus companions are his disciples he said so himself

livingchrist:
yes it is, God Almightiness means he could be anything including making himself less If he wanted.

This is where your get it wrong.
Almighty means All-powerful person, someone that has the highest authority. So, an Almighty God cannot be below anyone.
You're reasonable right?

you are confusing yourself the more, how can Angel's be Jesus companion if he was a little lower than them and also have same nature? The same reason you eliminated the disciples as Jesus companions has also eliminated the angels.
But Jesus called his disciples friends which means companions, rank in this case does not matter.
The question is, was Jesus an angelic spirit? Was he not a man? There is your answer! Jesus companions are his disciples he said so himself

You're still mixing up Nature and rank
Buhari rank highest in regards to superior authority in Nigeria. But, he has the same nature with all citizens. (He's human after all)

Is Jesus a human in his prehuman existence?

Do you notice these verses
Verse 13, 14
13.But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? (None, except Jesus)14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?
is your interpretation same as mine?

haddeylium:
This is where your get it wrong.
Almighty means All-powerful person, someone that has the highest authority. So, an Almighty God cannot be below anyone.
You're reasonable right?

except Almighty God had to put down his reputation and that is what he did

You're still mixing up Nature and rank
Buhari rank highest in regards to superior authority in Nigeria. But, he has the same nature with all citizens. (He's human after all)

Is Jesus a human in his prehuman existence?[

Do you notice these verses
Verse 13, 14
13.But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? (None, except Jesus)14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?
is your interpretation same as mine?

this fellow you are confusing yourself.

Jesus is greater than the Angels, how can he be part of what he is greater than.

Secondly, Jesus had same nature with his disciples not with Angels.

From the verse you just read Angels are ministers/servant right?
Was Jesus also a servant/minister in his pre human existence?

livingchrist:
yes it is, God Almightiness means he could be anything including making himself less If he wanted.
you are confusing yourself the more, how can Angel's be Jesus companion if he was a little lower than them and also have same nature? The same reason you eliminated the disciples as Jesus companions has also eliminated the angels.
But Jesus called his disciples friends which means companions, rank in this case does not matter.

The question is, was Jesus an angelic spirit? Was he not a man? There is your answer! Jesus companions are his disciples he said so himself

haddeylium:
This is where your get it wrong.
Almighty means All-powerful person, someone that has the highest authority. So, an Almighty God cannot be below anyone.
You're reasonable right?
You're still mixing up Nature and rank
Buhari rank highest in regards to superior authority in Nigeria. But, he has the same nature with all citizens. (He's human after all)

Is Jesus a human in his prehuman existence?

Do you notice these verses
Verse 13, 14
13.But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? (None, except Jesus)
14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?
is your interpretation same as mine?

@haddeylium, is the person who made creation (i.e. all things) Almighty aka an All-powerful person, lmso?

livingchrist:
except Almighty God had to put down his reputation and that is what he did

So, Jesus doesn't have the highest authority...?


this fellow you are confusing yourself.

Jesus is greater than the Angels, how can he be part of what he is greater than.
Secondly, Jesus had same nature with his disciples not with Angels.
From the verse you just read Angels are ministers/servant right?
Was Jesus also a servant/minister in his pre human existence?

Jesus is a spirit in his prehuman existence right?

MuttleyLaff:
@haddeylium, is the person who made creation (i.e. all things) Almighty aka an All-powerful person, lmso?

Yes!. This person has the highest authority.
Only Jehovah is referred to as Almighty (Ge 17:1; Ex 6:3