₦airaland Forum

AkinPhysicist:
The bolded was NEVER said by me. Here is my quote again since you can't read: "...you and the daft fellow have reduced African culture to words written in some White man's language." Now, do you see the difference between what I posted and what you claim? If you can't even read then how can you debate the issue? You might even be dafter than the confused fellow who is looking for written evidence for an ancient African culture. You can't read words. And even pictures you can see clearly. Shior.

I won't argue with that. My bad for misreading.

That doesn't change the fact that there's documented evidence of Ndigbo using oyibo (albeit in an earlier form) since the 1700s. Where's the evidence that oyibo was derived from oyinbo?

AkinPhysicist:
Mumu: does he have to be a white man to use a white man's language? Are you a white man because you are typing in English? Abeg swerve - you no get sense

Nah mern. You're the one saying that we're reducing African culture to words spoken by some white man. And who's this oyibo of whom you dey speak?

If that was in reference to Equiano, I'm shocked.

AkinPhysicist:
how can you see the obvious when you are blinded with Ipob propaganda?


Semantics. Either they both have a common origin. Or one copied from the other. I posit that the Oyibo was copied from Oyinbo. Until you and the daft fellow provide 'academic' proof otherwise, you are just wasting your time.


It is your and your people's adage that is nonsense and useless. Again where is your 'academic' proof?



So which is it? Is it a Bini word or an Igbo word? You are too confused to be logical. Again 'academic' proof please. Since you and the daft fellow have reduced African culture to words written in some White man's language.

Oludah Equiano was a white man? And you go call call someone else foolish? No wahala. Continue o jare

AkinPhysicist:
Open your eyes that's a Nigerian burn victim - the 'peeled' part of the skin looks like the skin of a white person. I can post similar pics of a very dark skinned burnt victim. Where is the 'academic' (as championed by the daft fellow) proof of the bolded(in your post)?. If you provide the 'academic' proof then I will concede the point. Until then Oyinbo is an authentic Yoruba word.

Still looks more red/yellow to me than white.

Oyinbo is Yoruba, oyibo Igbo. Simples. We're debating which is the ORIGINAL. They both have convincing theories and etymologies. Try and understand that Mr Physicist.

Oyibo may derive from oye-eboe, oyinbo from one nonsense Yoruba adage of peeled honey melanin equating to white skin. That doesn't make the form used by the Igbos (and the rest of Southern Nigeria) any less authentically and natively Igbo. And they're both pronounced nearly exactly the same, other than that the Yorubas will write it with an n because of a variant/different etymology you've ascribed to it.

You can keep your oyinbo, onyibo, oyingbo, and all these other silly western remixes. Oyibo as used by Igbos/Binis is as Igbo as Agukwu Nri.

AkinPhysicist:
don't be daft - many burn victims show pale ('peeled') skin even after the burn is healed - that will explain what the guy was saying.

That one be oyinbo pepe sef. Does that look peeled white or red to you?

I'm with bigfrancis. He's given an example of an isolated village deep in the Igbo hinterland using oyeebo to refer to the light-skinned among them well before the arrival of contact between other ethnic groups, such as the Yoruba. And it's not unreasonable to suggest that oyibo as it's known today originated from the funny way whites pronounced "onye Igbo" when requesting the highly sought-for Igbo slaves. That's no more bizarre a phenomenon than blacks using the same word white slave masters used to call us (nigger-nigga). And that's spread way beyond akata in the states.

OlaoChi:
waoh! you have real good knowledge of African languages.

there seems to be lots of connection between Fon and yoruba, not only does Fon divination system work like Ifa the parts of the corpus are named similarly and priests are called Avore (Abore in Yoruba)
it seems "v" in Fon is pronounced "b" in Yoruba. And if oyibo is originally a word from Fon, it must have come to Yorubas first before moving to igboland


but if relatable and sensible meaning can be attached to a word doesn't that prove something?

No, I don't. I've openly acknowledged having copied this theory from yet another of Nairaland's oyibo vs. oyinbo debates.

Now, the Yoruba have penchant for creating alternative words to convey their ideas beyond reasonable doubt. In respect to 'Oyinbo', it simply means 'oyin bo', which means 'honey-deficient' or 'honey peeled off'. Yoruba equates Oyin with Adun. As a resault of this, we therefore have the phrase 'Oyinladun'. 'Adu' (Odu) is a variant of Adun (Odun). The Yoruba of old equate the black melanin with honey. They thus have the idea of 'sexual chocolate' before our time. Oyinbo thus mean 'drilled of honey', in Yoruba. Is all of this possible within Yoruba thought system? A Yoruba proverb to that effect says 'irini si nisoni lojo' meaning: 'appearance will tell what you are described as'


I also got that post from the OP. In short, oyinbo is a Dahomey/Benin-derived words with a Yoruba-attached meaning. Assuming native honey is dark as melanin and melanin's strongly associated with honey to the ancient Yoruba, I can get behind the oyinbo remix but notice that this dude's stated that "the Yoruba have penchant for creating alternative words to convey their ideas beyond reasonable doubt." In other words, the Yoruba ascribe meaning to foreign concepts and ideas by breaking them down into syllables. It's not mad to think they could've also done this with the Igbo oyibo and corrupted it to oyinbo (two syllables joined together as a single word/idea). The word still doesn't originate with them though. That's the bottom line.

https://www.nairaland.com/2191374/etymology-word-oyinbo

That's the thread I got all this info from, after much digging around.

OlaoChi:
i dont think this onye igbo thing makes sense, do you buy it?

"I have the intention of putting this across a long while ago, I believe now is the time. So how did the word Oyinbo crept up in Yoruba lexicon? This piece might help. The Yoruba has been familiar with different races from the onset of time. The Yoruba were a race of diverse races at one point in their history. To the Yoruba ancestors, the white were not always "Oyinbo", the most tenable word for a white person with the ancient Yoruba is Ofun.

Originally however, the parent word for 'Oyinbo' may have come from the Fon kingdom of Dahomey, who contacted the white folks first after the long seperation from that race. The Fon for a white man is 'Yevo'. This word is derived from 'Oye' and 'Ovo', meaning, "of different shade".

To the Fon, mankind is called Gbetor, meaning 'father of life', now the word in full is a phrase, 'Gbetor-yenor' meaning, 'a shadow (or replica) of the father of life'. That establishes 'ye' as in 'yes' as shade or shadow in that language. For instance, Yesehmeh in that language stands for 'shade's transit point'. Again, racial shade is known to this people.

To the ancient Yoruba, white- man is 'e fun', we still say it in Yoruba language as 'Oyinbo-alawo-funfun'. That's a long-tail-expression however. Some Yoruba ancestors were white-skinned. It shows in the way Yoruba peoples named them afterwards based on their colour.

For instance, the word Efunyela simply means "white skin is befitting to Ela". The Yoruba perception of their ancestors can also be observed in the way Yoruba sees the albino. They says, owo koko lafii wogi, owo Orisha lafii wo afin. Afin are spotted with Orisha, who are Yoruba ancestors.

The Yoruba equally have black heros. One of the black hero in annal of Yoruba history was Odu. And in that regards is the folksong, "eye melo t'olongo wale?"...'Okan Dudu-Aro, Okan Sese Osun'. Hope you don't take the nursery rhyme as worthless. 'Duduaro' in another way round is 'Odunaro' a Yoruba surname spotting with a black thinker in annals of Yoruba history.

"Sese Osun" is also a historical phrase, we speak of Osun as "Osun-se-ngese, Olooya 'yun" and also 'etu obeje elese osun', a totem of mother Osun, the matriarch of Yoruba race. Osun was a black beauty of Yoruba history, hence it is said, 'Odu eleyinju ege'. Osun is o su, that is of dark shade. Another way of putting it clearer is O du."

I got that digging around on Nairaland. Oyinbo conceived of there doesn't even originate from the Yoruba but the country of Benin. All I can see is Yorubas attaching a meaning to everything and then claiming it to theirs. I dunno.

The "oye Ibo"-oyibo theory is very plausible. I can get behind the Yoruba remix (oyinbo) but the fact that it's pronounced oyibo even by the Yorubas makes me wonder. Or is the "n" in "oyin" semi-silent?

I can barely tell the difference between the Igbo and Yoruba oyibo vs. oyinbo pronounciation save for the sound that the "i" sound is elongated in the Igbo/Niger delta form so it sounds oy-EEEEEEE-boe compared to the yoruba oh-YIH-boh. No one pronounces the n. At least not that I know.

Other theories state that "oyibo" literally translates to white in Urhobo. I've also come across convincing Bini theories. The whole thing's complicated.

OlaoChi:
I'm shocked that this issue of oyibo/oyinbo has dragged this long
you are right, some pronounce it oyibo and others even say ebo like the Benins do

both in Benin and Yoruba the meaning as to do with peeling or pale. what does oyibo mean in Igbo?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyibo

Wikipedia might not be the most reliable source but look at how much space the Igbo theory takes up compared to two lines for the Yoruba one.

I guess the western and northern Igbos had always used it to refer to a light-skinned Igbo (I'd be lying if I knew what o yi bo broken down to means) but in reference to the white man this site has it that it's a way of mimicking the white colonial masters who could only pronounce "oyeebo" instead of "onye Igbo" when referring to Igbo slaves. I've noticed that the i/e sound is notably extended in the Igbo version and the Binis also pronounce it oyeeeebo, or simply eebo.

bigfrancis21:
Yes, in pronunciation oyibo is pronounced without the 'n'. It then comes as a surprise when it is spelled with the 'n' by yorubas when many don't pronounce the 'n' in it.

Not only okporoko and oyibo, other words too like ugu (corrupted to 'ugwu' by yorubas), uziza, onugbu, okwuru (corrupted to okra in English) etc. How many Nigerians even know that 'una' and 'dey' in pidgin English come from 'unu' and 'di' in Igbo language? Chi di = God dey, Chi di mma = God dey good, etc. The pidgin English that we speak in Nigeria today was the broken form of African-languages-influenced English formed by slaves in the Americas, Akan, igbo, ewe slaves etc. in their attempt to learn English, which was introduced to the shores of West Africa much later by christian missionaries. In Imo and Abia states, they say 'ama' to mean 'I will', as in 'ama bia' meaning 'I will come'. In anambra/enugu states they say 'mma bia' instead. Co-incidentally, in black american english till today, they still speak 'ama' which means 'I will', for example 'ama come to your house'. In that case that would be a surviving unadulterated Igbo word used in black american English.

Precisely. Although I highly doubt the reason that southern Igbos say bekee is because of Mr. Baike, though. Speaking of southern Nigerian words entering Ebonics, "buckra" (the akata name for the white man) comes from the original Calabar coinage Mbakara. It might have spread from Cross River through to eastern Igboland (Abia and, later, Imo), which gradually got corrupted to bekee as the years went on, which makes sense given that the use of the term bekee is more or less restricted to Imo and Abia states. I do know some Abakaliki people who use both oyibo and bekee. And then there's another group of people who use oyibo when talking about things in connection with the white man (obodo oyibo, English language = oyibo) but call the white man himself either onyeocha or ndiocha (plural). The whole thing's confusing.

Onijagidijagan:
d reason why u didn't knw is yoruba words is bcuz u don't speak yoruba.
Any ibos dat can speak yoruba and compare it with igbo will knw well is a yoruba word.

Mo fe se egunsi "I want to break the shaft open"

Egun in yoruba means shaft covering d melon while open means "si" but in Edo language Egunsi means "Pap"

other yoruba words are;

Asewo

Pele

Oga mi

Owo

Omo

Oba

Oluwa

Shey?

Ni?

Abi?

Oyinbo

Tokunbo

They are being used in igboland like is theirs

Aso-ebi

Egbon

Ogbeni

In the same way una, dey, okporoko and OYIBO are being used in Yorubaland like it's their own, nko?

And it's only Delta and Anambra/Enugu Igbos that call white people oyibo. I'm pretty sure elsewhere they're called onye/ndiocha or nwabekee (in Imo area). Either way, it's been established that oyibo is Igbo, oyinbo Yoruba. The northern and western Igbos that use that word say OYIBO and not oyinbo. Oyibo is also the word used in Nigerian Pidgin. Oyinbo is exclusively Yoruba. No one's denying that.

And I wasn't even aware that oyinbo was a thing sef, until I came to Nairaland. Most people I know (inc. the Yorubas that supposedly came up with this so-called oyinbo) all say 'oyibo' without the 'n.'

OlaoChi:
how can a foreign word be more popular than the local ones? saying ogbono in pidgin for example doesn't mean they don't know it is apon when speaking yoruba

does anybody even say wantintin in a conversation? I don't know

That's how it is. Most Yoruba peeps I know use the Igbo names (ogbono, okro) than apon/ila etc.

Nwantinti-wantintin is just an example of how Igbo coinages have been adopted by westerners and Yorubanized. And there's the fact that you now eat Igbo soups even if you do have native names for them, whereas in the past you ate amala and ewedu and little else. There's no shame in admitting a borrowing from each culture in certain things. I now see more and more Igbo men and women rocking agbada and gele far more than red cap and Ishiagu (former being indisputably Yoruba). That's just the influence of close proximity and globalisation right in Nigeria.

OlaoChi:
I dont think there is any igbo word that was adopted by yorubas, it is usually the other way round

Food names in Igbo are more popular in the west than the local ones (agidi-eko, ogbono-apon, okro-ila) and (as the likes of bigfrancis have confirmed on here time and time again) many Igbo words are used in pidgin English (oyibo, una, dey), and also nwantinti (Yorubanized to wantintin).

YourNemesis:
Why are you not calling it Egwushi?
Egwushi is the 100% Igbo one. Egusi is Yoruba.

There's no "h," though. Is EGWUSI.

YourNemesis:
Ogbono is Apon in Yoruba.
That Onugbu is Ewuro, if I am right about Onugbu meaning bitter leaf.
We still Have Efinrin, Orunla, Ayamashe, Different types of veggies (Rorowo, Efolo, Gbure, Tete) Etc.. so you see.
Most popular soups are eastern due to popular culture of course, especially the names. But know that Yorubas also have names for most of these things... especially if you go to the villages.
Most times when igbos are mentioning Oha, Onugbu etc before... I used to think they were different things found only in igboland, until I was told their English names, then I realized Yorubas also had them.
A word like "Okporoko", the igbo word for stock fish for example has become popular with other nigerians prolly due to nollywood and stuff, but in Yoruba it is Panla. Only Yorubas and close tribes might know what Kpanla/Panla is... but Okporoko will be more recognizable across nigeria at the moment.
Hope u get the drift.

I dey catch your drift. I can get my head round shared words in popular languages (oyibo in Igbo and oyinbo in Yoruba for example).

YourNemesis:
Uhhn? Where is the proof to back that up?
It wasn't Oyibonised to Egusi... Yorubas call it Egusi. Igbos call it Egwushi ... The English simply know it as melon.
Everyone else calls it Egusi because it became more widespread and spread to other places from the west... otherwise, who else calls Egusi Egwushi ecept Igbos?
You are just talking based on your local knowledge of Igbo environment... everybody has different way's of cooking Egusi, but the stir fry just happens to be the most popular.

I bet in 20 years, we might be having this discussion about Shaki (tripe) and Kpomo, since everyone now consumes those ones as well.
What is the Igbo word for Eba?

Allow my ignorance but I was always under the impression that egusi soup is natively called “Ofe Egwusi,” “Efo Elogusi” in Yoruba, and “Miyan A/gushi” in Igbo, Yoruba, and Hausa languages, respectively.

Native Igbos don't say eba, they only know garri. We all know that. The "gw" consonant doesn't even exist in Yoruba language so it's no wonder the supposed Yoruba equivalent is "egusi." The addition of a single letter means nothing and it's obvious that it might be a shared word between Igbos and Yorubas. Not 100% Yoruba.

And it's generally accepted that the most popular soups in Nigeria originate from the East/Niger Delta area. The only well-known native Yoruba soups I can think of are ewudu, gbegiri and efo riro (+ amala). I'm sure Yorubas will next start claiming ogbono and ofe onugbu.

YourNemesis:
What do you mean by asking me to explain what Egusi means?
Egusi simply means Melon in Yoruba. It is like asking me to explain what Ogede means in Yoruba if not Banana.
There is no eplanation behind it, that is the word.

And I'm saying that melon also literally translates to "egwusi" (standardized and oyibonized to "egusi" ) in the Igbo language. One tribe can't claim ownership of the word when the exact same equivalent exists in the other, especially when we all know that said soup originated from the East.

The fact that there's so many ways of cooking egwusi in Igboland, both traditional (o/ukazi, ofe achara w/ mgbam) and conventional (caking/frying), compared to conventional egusi elsewhere in Nigeria, is further proof that it's by all accounts an Igbo soup and definitely not "100% Yoruba," like some have said. That's clearly not true.

YourNemesis:
Which one is Elogusi?
Egusi is Yoruba.... sure and simple.

Just like Ibara is Water Melon
Egusi is Melon proper

The Igbos are the ones who added Gw to it, because of the structure of their lingo.
If Egusi had spread from Igbo land to the North then the Hausas would have also called it "Gwushi" and not Gushi.

Explain to me the etymology of the word "egusi" in the Yoruba language. We've already established that it means "melon" in Igbo. That's the literal translation.

ObaKlaz:
Oya, Sha, [b]Egusi [/b]and abi are 100% YORUBA WORDS. I'm not sure about Shakara and Gragra.

So why does "melon" literally translate to "egwusi" in Igbo with no known Yoruba equivalent?

The fact that Igbos pronounce what's closer to the standardised/anglicized term (egwusi-egusi) and that Hausas pronounce "Gushi" and Yorubas "Elogusi" highly suggests that the Igbo form is the original.

drsugar:
Heard the igbos using these words like the yorubas use them while I was in the East and kept wondering who the real originator of the words is.

Oya - as in 'oya' now
Shakara - as in your 'shakara' too much
Gragra - as in no do 'gragra' for me.
Egusi - as in 'egusi' soup
Sha - as in okay 'sha'.
Abi - as in 'Abi' now

Add any other word like this if you know.

I dunno for sha. The rest (save for egusi) are Yoruba (I'd imagine). Egusi is 100% Igbo and literally means melon in Igbo (written as egwusi natively). Yorubas like to attach meanings to every word they adopt but that doesn't make it any less Ibo.

And whether the word egusi was borrowed or not (which I highly doubt), the soup's 100% Igbo. How many other tribes in Nigeria have Akpurakpu Egusi and Achara.

Ukpo Ogede (Plantain Moi-Moi) - Igbo
Ayamase and Ofada Rice - Yoruba
Ata Dindin - Yoruba
Ofe Achara/Akpurakpu Egwusi - Ibo
Okporoko (stockfish) - Igbo
Uziza leaves - Igbo
Fake paracetamol - Aba

Brainrex:
Interesting

It would be if it was more of an active discussion. bigfrancis (or anyone), do you mind answering a few of these questions?

Probz:
And what of common phrases that we Nigerians love to use (eh heh, ah-ah, gbam, hey, oo, now)? Are these just a by-product of Naija English or do they actually originate from a particular language?

Once again, I hate to bump old threads but I genuinely would be interested to know the origin/s of the above pidgin words, and also "ey-a" and this our peculiar habit of tagging the suffix "o" onto the end of sentences for emphasis.

This one be real akata deal.

African-American culture is totally separate from African/Nigerian culture. Your akata rantings don't apply to Nigerian parents so allow it and do some research before you post nonsense on an open forum.

tiger28:
This early ,una don start already Abeg get a life!

And you nko. Commenting on people's threads just to say that nonsense. Abeg if you've got nothing constructive to say, leave am

Delete.

This was actually a genuinely interesting thread. Why so silent?

And what of common phrases that we Nigerians love to use (eh heh, ah ah, gbam, hey, oo, now)? Are these just a by-product of Naija English or do they actually originate from a particular language?

bigfrancis21:
I was on youtube the other day scouting for the latest movies and saw a Yoruba movie advert and a scene shows where the male actor was praising another fair lady in yoruba and called her 'oyibo'. I had to replay those few seconds severally to be sure of what he said. He said 'oyibo'. Mind you, this man is full-fledged Yoruba. I was surprised to say the least.

If yorubas also pronounce 'oyibo', where then did 'oyinbo' come from? If for anything, this reveals that 'oyibo' is far older and 'oyinbo' is only but a recent word adaptation or usage. Even Ajayi Crowther listed it in his Yoruba language dictionary of 1852 or so as 'oyibo'. Found out that the Urhobos and Itsekiris also use 'oyibo' too.

How are "oyibo" and "oyinbo" actually pronounced relative to each other, though? Is the n in the supposedly Yoruba variant (oyinbo) actually pronounced or is it silent?

Living4christ:
Oyibo is not yoruba, it was originated during the slave era, because of the high demand of Igbo slaves during the slave trade, the Slave usually use the word Oyibo (meaning, "is he Igbo?" ) to ask the slave traders if the person is Igbo, the slaves now call the white men "oyibo", because they were hearing it from there mouth. That is why we call the white "oyibo"

I'm pretty sure he said as much, merely pointing out that 'oyinbo' (i.e., with the 'n') is Yoruba, whereas 'oyibo' is Igbo. I didn't even know that there was a difference though, only that people spell it differently.

bigfrancis, is there actually a difference in the way oyibo specifically is pronounced compared to oyinbo? I've never heard even the Yoruba pronounce the n.

Not a popular discussion at all it seems.

Which of the three major native languages in Nigeria (Hausa, Yoruba, and Igbo) have contributed the most and least to pidgin English as we know it today and what language do the following terms originate - ashawo, wahala, oyibo/oyinbo, oya, oga, wetin, una, dey, etc.?

.