₦airaland Forum

cheruv:
You deconstructed the fulcrum of his arguments with these...in my view the only Igboid languages are Igbo itself and Ekpeye.
At times I don't get this undue obsession with anything Igbo from Yoruba people especially... I was shocked to find out that some Yoruba now study Igbo history in order to find in which to claim superiority over Igbos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboid_languages

'Williamson and Blench conclude that the Igbo languages (Igboid apart from Ekpeye) form a "language cluster" and that they are somewhat mutually intelligible. However, mutual intelligibility is only marginal, even among the Izii–Ikwo–Ezaa–Mgbo languages.'

Igbo proper, Ika, Ikwerre, Ebonyi Igbo (Izzi-Ezza-Mgbo-Ikwo) and Ogba are all considered Igbo languages in this study. Ekpeye and Ukwuani are separate, yeah.

ezeagu:
People in most parts of Imo, in Abia and Ebonyi don't even use the word 'oyibo' they use 'bekee', like aku bekee. There's absolutely no point of speaking pidgin in Aba, it's a not a mixed language city by nature like PH and Warri, people learn Igbo when they're in Aba. Can you imagine Ikpeazu addressing Abia people in pidgin like Wike does in Rivers? Weird.

Look at the witnesses in this video for instance, although they may probably be speaking standard English because of the situation, you can still see from how clear their language is of pidgin that English is the second language after Igbo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmJZ9NFrVZg

Traders throughout Nigeria know pidgin, but I don't know English-Igbo mix using strong pidgin words or use abi or ba, especially when theres relevant versions in Igbo like okwa and kwa.

In places like Warri and Port Harcourt which are indigenously mixed areas pidgin in a mainstay, this is why I say people do not generally use pidgin as a main language in Igboland because there's no point. I agree that people in other hinterland areas in the west and north do not speak anything much other than their language, but in Igbo hinterland it's Igbo/Engligbo that is mostly spoken unless foreigners are around. Even Port Harcourt sef uses Igbo a lot, the Oyigbo side is completely Igbo-speaking no point of pidgin there.

All I can say is that pidgin's used in Awka on a daily basis, esp. by the Unizik students. I can't speak for places deeper in the Igbo hinterland so we'll leave am at that.

"Though popular jollof rice originated from Sierra Leone, it is native to the Igbo tribe of southern Nigeria, suggesting that the Igbo community have settled and spread their culinary traditions well beyond the borders of Nigeria."

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wXH5AQAAQBAJ&pg=PT311&dq=jollof+rice+igbo&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=jollof%20rice%20igbo&f=false

That's literally the first I've heard of it. Very interesting.

RedboneSmith:
We could have an interesting discussion about Igbo culture and what it really is, and then determine if it is possible to distinguish Igboid from Igbo based on culture. But sadly, you are not really engaging my question.

Traditional belief system? What are those elements of Igbo belief system? Are they really pan-Igbo (i.e., do they exist exclusively in all the so-called Igbo areas) and non-existent in the so-called igboid areas?

Cuisine? Can you name a dish which is common to all the so-called Igbo areas --- all of them --- but which the so-called Igboid areas do not indulge in?

Arts? Are there art forms which ALL the so-called Igbo people practise which the so-called Igboids don't?

I want to know if we can really articulate a common Igbo culture which can be demonstrated as separating the Igbo from those you would called Igboid. Put Yoruboid matter aside; this may not be a "London is to England, as Paris is to France" situation.

Cultures aren't ever tagged with the suffix 'oid,' languages are. Oid languages are divergent enough from the overarching umbrella term to stand as distinct languages and not dialects of the parent language but they're on the spectrum and sound at least vaguely similar. But the cultures have either nothing or little in common, that's why they're not considered part of the other group. Igalas and Itsekiris speak a Yoruboid language but they're not Yoruba. Ikas and Ekpeyes speak an Igboid language but the ones Ikas I've encountered are as far removed from Igbo as you can get and I believe Ekpeyes have their own rich traditional culture.

By traditional Igbo culture, I'm talking about Odinani/Alusi/Oji/Osu/etc. My question in the OP is, have these common aspects of traditional Igbo society that partly shape Igbo identity also shared by people from the Bendel region (Ikas and Ukwuanis) or are they only called Igbo by lay people because they speak an Igboid language and share proximity with the more prototypal Enuani clan of Oshimili/Aniocha area?

YourNemesis:
Yorubas and Igalas don't share the same culture though.
Even language wise, Yorubas can't really understand Igala, they can only pick out some words when they are speaking deeply, otherwise, it is hard for a Yoruba to understand an Igala person, except maybe some very few phrases.
Itsekiri is sooo much easier.

"The very same grounds that differentiate Yoruba from Ishekiri/Igala (shared traditions/customs and religion, food, etc.)."

Precisely my point, Nemesis. I'm saying that the things that differentiate Yoruba from Itsekiri and Igala are the customs and traditions (which aren't shared. You misunderstood).

@RedboneSmith, the things that differentiate Yoruboid from Yoruba proper are the same things that differentiate Igboid from Igbo and (at least in my opinion) constitute Igbo culture (traditional belief system, arts, cuisine, etc.). I wasn't dodging any question.

RedboneSmith:
"Culturally Igbo". Hmm.

In your opinion, Probz, what and what constitute Igbo culture?

The very same grounds that differentiate Yoruba from Ishekiri/Igala (shared traditions/customs and religion, food, etc.).

AmuDimpka:
All these arm chair linguistics teachers can't even differentiate between language and dialect.


So much daftness here



How can you speak a different language yet I don't need an interpreter .

If there is Igboid language that is different from Igbo...If means that both won't even understand each other unless they employ an interpreter


But if they don't , then they speak same language but different dialect


If an anambra man can understand the guy in Agbor and they can communicate ..Then they speak Igbo with different dialect and accent . There is nothing like Igboid language ...Because the term language rubbishes all other postulations


You guys have to give Igbo a break



This stupidity is getting out of hand

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboid_languages

My question is, are Ikas and Ukwuania culturally Igbo or not?

Wulfruna:
Listen, do not quote me again if you can't say something smart. You obviously did not read beyond the title. The writer started off by trying to tell us which of the Anioma groups are pure Igbo and which one are Edo hybrids.

He or she claimed Ika and Ukwuani as Edoid-Igboid and Enuani as pure Igbo. My comments only intended to point out that Enuani has a lot of clans who do not lay claim to pure Igbo blood (as he thinks), but are also "Edoid-Igbo", to use his language. I mentioned two prominent Enuani individuals who disclaim Igboness in order to highlight that such denials exist in Enuani as much as they exist in Ika and Ukwuani.

The only derailer here is you, with your lack of comprehension and eagerness to pick a pointless fight. Seek understanding or stop quoting me.

Fam, I'm no author.

Is everything epic to you, laudete?

AmuDimpka:
How do you differentiate Igboid from Igbo


Are you mistaking dialect from language


Delta north speak Igbo and are Igbo
North River state till bonny and opobo speak

And I'm saying that the Enuani, spoken in parts of Delta North, is an Igbo dialect and that the remaining two languages in Anioma (Ika and Ukwuani) are Igboid.

It's my understanding that Ngwa, Onitsha, Awka, etc., (even the less intelligible Waawa) are all dialects of the Igbo language. Ikwerre, Ika, Ogba, and the more divergent Ukwuani and Ekpeye are all Igboid languages.

Just like there's speakers of Yoruba and Igala and Itsekiri speakers. Igala and Itsekiri speak Yoruboid languages but they're not Yoruba.

My problem is with eastern Igbos calling every south-southerner who happens to speak an Igboid language (not even Igbo dialect) as Igbo because of linguistic similarities. Yorubas don't claim Igalas and Itsekiris in the way Igbos like to claim Ogbas and Ekpeyes.

It's not the average Nigerian that differentiates between Igbo proper vs. Igboid in Anioma or any other south-south region but it actually makes sense given how the Igbo denial wanes as you move further east from Agbor/Ika to Asaba (even though exceptions do exist). My reasoning is that these people may well be right to reject any affiliation with an ethnic group they don't even belong to but that the average Nigerian lumps in as 'Delta Igbo' for political reasons or convenience.

ChinenyeN:
Odo nunu?

It's as if people are neglecting the historical context of how "Igbo" people even became "Igbo" people to begin with. Igbo is first and foremost a linguistic classification. The ethnic identity is after the fact, and it isn't something that everyone accepts. So, if your community's vernacular is by definition an Igbo speech form, then you are by definition classified as an Igbo-speaking person. Ethnic identity is a different discussion.

People who try to use this newfound ethnic identity to delineate relationship do all the communities in "Igboland" a strong disservice, because pre-colonial relationships between communities had nothing to do with "Igbo" identity. You will see otherwise "Igbo" communities with historical, cultural and ethnic ties with otherwise "Ijaw" communities, or otherwise "Igala" communities or otherwise "Ibibio" communities, or otherwise "Edo" communities or otherwise... ah you get my point.

This idea of "truly Igbo" or "genuinely Igbo" is a farce and does nothing more than insult the pre-colonial histories of various "Igbo" peoples.

It's no worse than lumping two quite disparate groups under the overarching term of a tribe they're only somehow related to linguistically.

Igala and Itsekiri people speak a Yoruboid language but no one calls them Yoruba. I'm aware Igbo has greater linguistic diversity and there's more Igboid than Yoruboid languages. It doesn't mean that the Igboid-speaking communities are Igbo.

Wulfruna:
Your so-called Igbo proper Enuani still have a lot of clans that claim Bini, Esan and Igala blood.

Those Enuanis are most likely being influenced by the prevailing anti-Igbo sentiments from the Bendel/Western side of Anioma (Ikas and Ukwuanis, the ones who might actually have a point) but they’re still regarded as authentically Igbo by anyone versed enough about Delta Igbo matters whether they accept it or not.

And the point about some Enuanis having Igala blood is irrelevant, not being funny. I’ve heard that a large stock of eastern Igbos (esp. those from Nsukka and environs) have Igala blood and they don’t regard themselves as any other than 100% Igbo, as far as I know. Ndigbo as a whole and her origins are extraordinarily heterogeneous. Some of us even claim Israelite/Hebrew origin, as I'm sure you know (and I won't knock that theory either until I'm better-informed).

And the trolls calling IPOB can commot. I'm no Biafra supporter nor am I with the concept of separation.

Noblecx:
Excuse me?!?

You read. Excuse yourself if you're not contributing to the discussion. In the nicest way possible. I want this thread to stay clean.

Noblecx:
Nigga why not go and ask them in their respective domain.
At least they have rulers that can guide you on their history.
Also you can search for them in Facebook. Many ethnic groups have groups on Facebook where they discuss their root.

The world is now global and answers theses days are not far fetched but are in the tip of your fingers.

I don't appreciate useless and nonsense answers like these. If you're not gonna add to the discussion, commot.

I’ve researched this topic for time and my understanding is that there's three distinct groups in Anioma (Delta Ibo) - two Edoid-Igboid (Ika, Ukwuani/Ndokwa) and one Igbo proper (Enuani), that the latter (the only genuine, authentic Igbos who inhabit Delta Igboland) can be found around Asaba/Oshimili/Aniocha area, that "Bendel Igbos," as my mum calls them, (Ika and Ukwuani people) are culturally Edoid groups who happen to speak Igboid languages and that close proximity and the vague similarity in language is why a people who are essentially Bini are lumped in with the real Delta Igbos (Enuani). In exactly the same sense as that if true Yorubas occupied an area in (let's just say) Delta State with Igalas and Itsekiris, all three groups would all be known as "Delta Yoruba" since they're all linguistically Yoruboid and because they'd share neighbouring proximity with each other, forgetting that there's only one true group of Yorubas who inhabit that area - i.e., the Yorubas, not the other two non-culturally Yoruba groups who happen to speak Yoruboid languages (and not even Yoruba proper).

I tend to agree with the assertion that one and only true Igbos of Anioma are Enuani since I've encountered Enuani Igbos who hail from Asaba who are in literally every respect just as Igbo as a typical south easterner from Enugu or Anambra and the Ika-Ukwuani (Bendel) stock people who speak languages that share similarities with Igbo but who you couldn't in a million years imagine sipping palmy and chopping nkwobi in Ishiagu and red cap.

Ditto for Rivers folk. I know authentic Igbos can be found in the Bonny-Opobo axis (said to be, at least in part, descendants of settlers from the Awka-Orlu axis) but as for Ikwerres, does the fact that they happen to speak an Igboid language mean that they're also culturally Igbo (or at least before the civil war) and could someone fill me in on the other Igboid/Igbo groups of Rivers (Etche, Ndoni, etc.). I've looked for info. online and there's next to nothing on Wikipedia at least for Etches.

My question is, could someone fill me in on the Ikas and Ukwuanis of Delta and the Ikwerre, etc., of Rivers? Ika and Ukwuani definitely don't fall under the banner of Igbo proper but Igboid in a linguistic sense (even if you might well argue that their dialect is more intelligible than Nsukka/Ebonyi dialects) but are these people culturally Igbo or Edoid, etc.? I've only researched this for some time so my understanding's limited but that's the conclusion through reading and my own experiences with some of these folk.

MozartianDreams:
Waka, and likely wetin have English roots. I remember reading this on a Pidgin language lesson website, and they are vernacular versions of 'walk' and 'what?' respectively. I am more sure of the first of the two however.

'Ah-ah' (said quickly) sounds like the hausa word for no.

'Ahhh---Ahhh' (said loudly and solemnly) sounds like an exclamation of despair and I have heard it from many people, but perhaps from yorubas the most.

You have to understand that even in primitive stages of human civilization, and even when you were a baby, that humans are capable of making exclamatory sounds before language development.

That said:
I recently learned that in pre-colonial and colonial eras that the person who was in charge of the native peoples would be refererred to as an 'Organizer'. But, they had difficulty pronouncing the word properly and only the first two syllables survived, hence, with a 'terrible English accent' which no one would blame the natives for having at the time, the word 'Oga'.

Interesting. And what of eya, sef etc.?

nmreports:
There is also: PENNE

Which is just a brand of pasta.

And this one that there's three pages telling the OP the same thing on a loop. Chineke. He should now be able to write JAMB for pasta.

They're all types of pasta but spaghetti's distinct enough to be considered separately since it's long and stringy compared to the other types of pasta (short tubes).

But they all fall under the umbrella word of pasta shaa

ezeagu:
A lot of kids have lived and worked in Lagos which is why those words may be heard, but the overwhelming majority do not use words like shey and shebi instead they use words like okwa, if you ask a mama in the market 'shey you get tokunbo clot ni?' she will be lost. You can see the complete absence of pidgin in things like music and films set in the east, even Aki na Ukwa doesn't feature pidgin.

All I know is that brokin's used on a daily in big cities in Anambra at least, and in Aba (the places in the East I've stayed). I can't speak for Owerri or Enugu but it's not mad to think that the use of brokin extends in these places too. Even to enter simple okada in Awka, you still hear Pidgin English and Igbo being spoken by the driver. I'll admit there's a large Hausa community in Awka but I still hear full-on pidgin and definitely phrases like abi (or ba), etc., on a regular.

I'm not saying that Igbos native to the East speak the most pidgin compared to Urhobos or Lagosians but I can't get behind this your notion that Igbo Pidgin is only a thing in Potakot. That's not what I've experienced. There may be certain words that get left behind at River Niger border but regional forms of pidgin are strong in the East from what I've seen and heard.

MozartianDreams:
Okay, let's set the records straight:

Igbo words in:

Vernacular:
1) Bolombolo - Balloon

2) Potopoto - Muddy water

3) Oyibo - White man/light-skinned person (Yoruba: 'Oyinbo')

4) Obodo oyibo - White man town/city
Gwongworo - Truck

5) Uno - (Una, 'vernacularized')

6) Love Nwantintin - Small/Short-lived love
Aka gum - stingy person

7) Ewu - goat (derogatory use)

8 ) Iyanga - 'forming' (Yoruba: 'shakara')

9) Ogbanje - Witch (Yoruba: 'Abiku')

10) Biko - Please

Market/restaurant/Food enterprises
1) Abacha - African Salad

2) Acha - Northern Nigerian grain associated with famine

3) Agidi - Gelatinous corn starch meal (Yoruba: 'Eko')

4) Akamu - Pap

5) Aki - Palm kernel

6) Egwusi (anglicized as Egusi) - Melon seed, also native soup of the Igbos cooked with these seeds.

7) Isi Ewu - Goat head peppersoup

8 ) Nkwobi - Spicy cow foot

9) Nzu - White/native chalk

10) Ogbonno - Bush mango, also native soup cooked with this.

11) Ogiri - Fermented, washed and compressed locust bean.

12) Oha - African rosewood leaves, also native soup cooked with this.

13) Oka - Maize

14) Okazi- Wild Spinach

15) Okwuro/Okro - Okra (anglicized)

16) Okporoko - Stock fish

17) Onugbu - Bitter leaf, also native soup cooked with this.

18 ) Ube - Pear

19) Udara - ? (Yoruba: 'Agwalomo')

20) Ukwa - Breadfruit

21) Ugba - Oil bean seed, also salad dessert prepared with this.

22) Ugwu - Fluted pumpkin

23) Utazi - Bush buck

24) Uziza - False cube leaves

I'm aware of all them (mostly). Anyone know the (suspected) origins of sha, oga, wetin, waka, ah-ah, eh-hen, hey (exclamation), sef, o (suffix for emphasis, e.g., okay o), and other mannerisms (kissing teeth for dissaproval), etc.?

I did start a thread on this a while back but it was left mostly unanswered

RedboneSmith:
Which dialect is this please? Or are you willing to lie to win an argument?

The Igbo for crush or grind is gwe. I don't know where you are bringing in gwu from. But if you can come in and throw more light on this your interpretation of e gwusi, it will be appreciated.

And how would you know any of this being a non-Igbo?

ezeagu:
This is the result of media being completely based in Lagos and Abuja, the bolded words are the only words you may hear in the east.

Yeah, I still can't get with this, ezeagu. Pidgin's used on a daily basis whenever I'm in Anambra (even the village), again, especially with the younger generation. I'm more with bigfrancis' statement that there are regional forms of pidgin all throughout Nigeria but popular/widely acknowledged ones (inc. abi, shey, etc.) are used even in the East.

Pidgin's spoken everywhere in Awka and Onicha at least. Ditto for Aba.

ezeagu:
You're not saying anything I wasn't saying. Olaudah's earlier part of the book was basically setting himself up with a native identity, particularly an Igbo one, it's therefore strange that in this very self conscious and detailed writing, in which he even went into and waved off the idea of Benin hegemony, that he wouldn't explain why another specific group of people were singled out as 'Eboe' as himself. The fact that Oldfield wrote what is obviously today's 'oyibo' as 'Oh! Eboe' helps the suggestion that Olaudah was also writing today's 'oyibo'.

The use of 'Eboe' in Olaudah's case might not even be 'Igbo' but many other words in the language, as well, or both languages as said before, although doubtful, may be using words from an older root.

Brilliant. Watch these Yorubas next claim potopoto and ogbanje shaa

ChynoBEATS:
Uhm u should hv clicked tHe share button n 2ndly u shuld hv dragged some peeps in Manually by pasting their nick.

And you chose to bump this 2 months after?

ezeagu:
It's actually funny to hear that Niger Delta communities pidgin use is comparable to Igbo pidgin use. Urhobo itself is being eaten at the sides by pidgin, there's nowhere in Igboland that I know of where an elder would address you in pidgin like an Urhobo or other Niger Delta elder would. I think you might be talking about 'passive' use or for foreigners, like how some people abuse phone.

I'm talking as a primary mode of communication between native people, Igbo people don't even really speak pidgin within themselves in Lagos, it's either Igbo or Engligbo, or English if they don't speak Igbo, an average southeastern couldn't keep up pidgin with a Lagosian or Warri person. If this wasn't the case, then most music and slang in the SE wouldn't be in Igbo but pidgin, like it is in Port Harcourt, Warri and other delta areas. Pidgin has always been a Niger Delta and Lagos thing, which is why the towns you listed are major commercial hubs. I don't know Onitsha pidgin, all I know is when non-Onitsha return from the town they usually blow Onitsha Igbo dialect, not anything else.

Apart from that, the words people are insinuating are used widely in the SE like shebi, omo and egbon are not used widely at all.

I didn't say southeastern pidgin is comparable to Warri pidgin. I just wanted to save people the myth that all popular words in Nigeria originate from the Yoruba and that Yoruba people are somehow skilled in speaking pidgin (more so than the Niger Delta clans). I've heard this kind nonsense before but people don't tend to realise that it's only Lagos Yorubas that speak brokin with some frequency. It's definitely not a thing as far west as Ogbomosho or Ado-Ekiti.

I'd still argue that hinterland Igbos are more likely to use at least a few isolated brokin terms than hinterland Yorubas, their own is Yoruba and nothing else being as conservative and old-time a people as their elders tend to be.

RedboneSmith:
So you are saying the Yorubas of the time were not using that word, but Crowther went ahead anyway to put it in a Yoruba dictionary?

Does that make sense to you?

Nah, but it makes sense that Ajayi took the word to the west. As bigfrancis said, he himself was called oibo in the east before the mid-19th century. That's the crux of the matter fam. He'd been called that exact word in the east before he later recorded it in any Yoruba dictionary.

RedboneSmith:
Ajayi Crowther's Yoruba-English dictionary from 1843 contains the word oibo for white man. That's before 1850, so there.

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=uadfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=crowther+oibo+white&source=bl&ots=xoPXQLSoRC&sig=2yrYi9PoCLPBBrDYQ66yp4JCHuI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixyO3qzeLQAhVsDMAKHaPKDXEQ6AEIFzAE#v=onepage&q=crowther oibo white&f=false

"The earliest academic evidence of 'oyinbo' in Yoruba land comes much later in the mid 1800s in the form of Yoruba dictionary written by Ajayi Crowther. About 7 years earlier before he published the dictionary, Crowther had written a short book about his experiences in spreading Christianity (anglicanism) East of the Niger and he had remarkably mentioned that he and the Igbo Sierra Leonan were often called 'oyibo ojii' ('white' blacks or europeanized blacks) by the Igbo natives. Note Ajayi Crowther spent some time in the east during his religious expansion. This is probable evidence that this word may have been carried over to Yoruba land by Ajayi Crowther and his religious crew for usage, which later spread in the west. This is even more plausible given that the Nri civilization is the oldest civilization in Nigeria, predating Ife, Bini and Oyo civilizations."

Bigfrancis posted that a few comments up. See for yourself jare.

ezeagu:
Nobody uses shey, abi, oya, or tokunbo in Igboland unless they are Lagos raised and pidign is hardly used outside of Port Harcourt anyway, they use okwa, ngwa, okirika and the likes. In fact I have never heard the later ones used in any Igbo state even by Lagos based adults (maybe kids back for Christmas).

Yoruba words used in Igboland are usually for things made by or borrowed from Yorubaland, so like ori (shea butter) and ashebi. Igbo people in the diaspora may use Lagos terms because everybody has mixed more there.

I dunno. I've heard Pidgin being used loads in Igboland during my stays in Awka and Aba (especially among the younger generation, even the ones born-and-bred in the East), not to mention the well-known Onicha Pidgin.

The Nigerian groups that use pidgin the most are the Niger Delta/South-South minorities (Bini, Urhobo, Ijaw, etc.), followed by the Igbo. Yorubas speak their native tongue with pride mern and from what I've seen brokin's barely ever used in interior Yorubaland. Lagos is a different story.

ezeagu:
Nobody uses shey, abi, oya, or tokunbo in Igboland unless they are Lagos raised and pidign is hardly used outside of Port Harcourt anyway, they use okwa, ngwa, okirika and the likes. In fact I have never heard the later ones used in any Igbo state even by Lagos based adults (maybe kids back for Christmas).

Yoruba words used in Igboland are usually for things made by or borrowed from Yorubaland, so like ori (shea butter) and ashebi. Igbo people in the diaspora may use Lagos terms because everybody has mixed more there.

I dunno for that. I've heard Pidgin being used loads in Igboland during my stays in Awka and Aba (especially among the younger generation, even the ones born-and-bred in the East), not to mention the well-known Onitsha variety of brokin.

The Nigerian groups that use pidgin the most are the Niger Delta/South-South minorities (Bini, Urhobo, Ijaw, etc.), closely followed by the Igbo. Yorubas speak their native tongue with pride mern and from what I've seen brokin's barely ever used in interior Yorubaland. Lagos is a different story.

OlaoChi:
how this keeps dragging along is shocking.
this nyamiri incident doesn't apply here because the Hausas use it as a derogatory term to mock igbos, it is not meant to be descriptive in nature but a mere mockery unlike onye ibo which you have no evidence that White people called igbos, or why igbos will call white folks a term they know originally refers to them. why would igbos call white people a name that igbo people use to refer to themselves? also onye igbo refers to a single (igbo) person, "ndigbo" is for the Igbo people in general. why would europeans (and which europeans exactly, provide proof) call all igbos "onye ibo" or "oyiibo"


how does this rest in your brain?

all you did here is assumption



Adura, Wakati, kefiri, are words for example used in Yoruba from arabic since the 17th century. it doesn't matter if igbo started using oyibo since the 13th century, as long as it doesn't mean anything in Igbo, it tells bad for you as a descriptive term in a west african language should be self explanatory
other languages that use oyibo or forms similar to it have meanings related to its use eg. peel/pale, shade, hue which are self explanatory in relation to its use


igbo Nri civilization you talked about was heavily influenced by Benin and Igala, infact Eri was most likely from igala


I'm half igbo, so I don't hold any cultural superiority of yorubas, at least not a hint of such until I began to see the immature way igbos behave on cultural and historical matters

I can only LMAO when you say that Nri kingdom was heavily influenced by Bini. Nri that even predates all these other civilisations.

bigfrancis21:
@bold...well that's very debatable. You would have to come up with evidence of your 'hard influence' on Nri culture. Till date, there's very little evidence of such culture influences on Nri. But we have surviving Nri cultures in those areas instead. For example, the igbo 4 market days of Eke, Oye, Afor and Nkwo are still used by the Binis and Igalas till date. Oyibo simply means 'light skinned' in Igbo. It doesn't matter if there's a syllabic word for word breakdown for it. It's just like trying to ascribe a meaning to 'complicated' syllable by syllable when the word just means what it is or is sufficient in its entirety. Second, Nri predates the entire culture of southern Nigeria, thus Eri being from Igala is unimaginable.

The usage of nyamiri, derogatory or not, is just an example of how words stick from mispronunciation. 'bekee' also used in Igbo to refer to whites or English originates from one white missionary in Igboland, 'baikie' which the igbos pronounced as 'bekee' and with time the usage and meaning of the word expanded to refer to all whites, European civilization, English language etc. Also, meanings and usage of words expand with time. With time new meanings and interpretations are added or removed from words. Ekwensu, the igbo word for devil, did not refer to the devil originally. Now it means devil, since the advent of christianity. Like wise, the original meaning of 'chi' referred to 'guarding spirit' as the Igbo traditional religion believes that everybody has a guardian angel or spirit guide of their own called 'chi'. However, since christianity Chi now refers to God. Chukwu = chi+ukwu (great chi) = God. In linguistics, it's a known fact that the meanings of words or word usages are not static. They evolve over time.

Third, I don't think there's any need over flogging this topic. Theres academic evidence showing the usage of oyibo in igboland to as far back as the 1700s. Anything else is mere speculation and cannot be proven. Ajayi crowther himself, in his dictionary did not render the 'oyin+bo' theory in his dictionary of the mid 1800s. Such theory is most likely of recent adaptation. Oyibo is Igbo, oyinbo could be yoruba. I don't think any Igbo has claimed 'oyinbo' to be Igbo because it does not make sense in Igbo but oyibo itself does.

Your being half Igbo does not negate your sense of cultural superiority. It is clearly written all over your posts.

If oyinbo means sense in Yoruba, so be it. In igbo language, oyibo makes sense to us, and it has been academically proven to be of older usage than 'oyinbo'.

QED

Great post but http://ukpuru.tumblr.com/search/bekee , https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aoCMN_twPJUC&pg=PA62&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://ukpuru.tumblr.com/post/115997041797/igbo-ubani-bonny-island-dialect-word-list-by

'Some notes: We’ve been told that ‘bèké’ ‘foreigner/white man’ is corrupted from William Balfour Baikie’s name, however ákụ́ bèké and mmanyá bèké are on this list published in 1830, six years after Baikie’s birth, so that’s out the window.'

Re. bekee, I honestly think this mbracka-buckra-bekee theory is much more plausible. And it explains why it's only southern Igbos that use bekee (Cross River/Akwa Ibom to Abia/Imo - i.e., the Igbo hinterland).

'Also, the Igbo word for "white man colonizer" is "bia i ke," meaning "they have come to divide"; however, that was corrupted to be called bekee. Some authors have incorrectly said that it was the name of the English explorer Dr William Baikie.'

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=594cCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT194&dq=bekee+divide+baikie&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL4ammnNfQAhVRF8AKHZkECicQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=bekee%20divide%20baikie&f=false

Baikie's theory is definitely out of the window. I think it's definitely either one or the other of the above.

OlaoChi:
waoh I thought you were smart. calling the yoruba given etymology nonsense shows you are one of them blinded by bigotry.

in all sincerity the onye igbo theory you're giving doesn't hold water because there's no evidence to support that, it also doesn't make sense calling whites oyibo knowing that it is their corruption of "onye igbo"


Oyinbo, oyibo, ebo are all said in Yoruba but written language has a liking for oyinbo

it's a pity the minds of young people in Africa is not open and free, you can never grow intellectually like this

It's literally nonsense to me because it makes no sense from where I'm standing. But that's just me.

There's at least just enough evidence (if not more) that oyibo derived from oye-ebo than there is for this 'oyin to bo' (scratched honey/peeled melanin) theory.