₦airaland Forum

PastorAIO:
I take it that you are not of the ilk that insist that the gospel writers were inspired by the holy spirit so therefore the bible is good as written by Yahweh himself. In that case I'm on your side all the way.

ranchhoddas..
It is even written in the bible that all scripture is divinely inspired...
2 tim 3:16..

Ranchhoddas:
At least you agree that some Christians can make it happen at the mention of His name. This is enough for me. Bottomline: There is power in that Name and a rabbi called Jesus once lived.

na i dont agree..they have to be in the ''spirit'' for it to happen etc..
For them to ''heal'' or something
or unless u mean trival events like survival of accidents..which a christian might shout jesus at the point of impact but it doesnt mean thats what saved the person...
IOW ogun etc once lived?

Ranchhoddas:
You are making things up as usual. Ever-loving, ever-merciful, are not found in the Bible. How do you know that Yahweh is all these if they aren't in the Bible.

bro..open your bible or bibles to the book of
The whole of psalm 136..
1john 4:8
psalm 100:5
etc--ever loving
jer 33:11
2 cor 1:3
jer 3:12
1 chron 16:34 etc--all merciful..
I didnt invent oga

The predecessing quotes are an argument for another day!:-)

shadeyinka:
Which is more efficient code re-use, or better still Object Oriented Programming where we have Inheritance and Polymorphism. The same basic code that programmed the Cells, Bilateral symmetries, Dualization of some essential appendages like eyes, ears was used and reused in an object oriented fashion.

u didnt answer me..
Whats the use/design of tail bones?
And the design of natural disasters?
And how about the level of junk dna in our system?
All the design we see is consistent with the predictions of a blind mindless designer#nature..
On eptomic pregnancies
you say demons cause this..
This is the reason why i said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences but you believe this is far-fetched.

smartn09:
Hahahaha....... I would want to let you know that every successful human on earth is or has worked with groups of demons to achieve their positive ends, they are under the authority of man . They are not evil as you think unless you, as human, who dishes out instructions to them is evil. They are fallen angels and they want to regain most of their natural gift by serving human neither do they serve us for any payment. I'm a conjurer , if you would want an ancient knowledge on demon , spirits and demonology , l think we may discuss it outside the forum. Not even the pontiffs performs their work successfully without demon assistance. They are the gods of the earth and everything therein.

lol...just seeing this..
Pls just stop...conjurer!

Ranchhoddas:
What are the supposed 'contradictory' characteristics of Yahweh?

ever loving..all merciful sends my daughter to hell for stealing #200 from my own hard earned salary?
The bible is one contradiction of yahweh...from divinely inspired perspectives..such shouldnt exist..if its one dude revealing all..
The christian idea itself is a fore runner in contradictions..

Ranchhoddas:
It's for Christians; are you a Christian?

and those are for traditionalists..

---

even christians..if they don't do those stuffs well...it is less likely to work...one can believe in jesus but be a vile sinner..and also not have the supposed ''level of faith''..
Or do u mean the 2billion christians can all raise my dead dog irrespective of state of the supposed''purity'' or ''grace''..?

shadeyinka:
What I see is a Full Cup of Theoretical knowledge and lack off Experience. Since the cup is full, no need to put in any other precious fluids

I'm sorry its like if a deaf person challenges you to debate the superiority of Harmony over Rhymes in music, how will you take up the challenge?

no no thats a wrong conclusion...
Directly..
I claim to have my ear's working but i have no proof of it to the supposed deaf man...
How does that work?
A standard for deafness has to be there

Ranchhoddas:
Non sequitur is non sequitur. Neither of us gets to decide what is non sequitur. It is what it is.

ok..then both are fable's..
yahweh's supposed characteristics are contradictory..his book contradictory...his scientific knowledge poor for a creator..so he cannot exist but theists say it doesnt disprove him...
Ipu cannot be invisible and be pink...
Horses do not have infinite strength...
Horses do not have pointed sharpened hornes etc...bt atheists say this doesnt disprove the ipu..
So...pls tell us the standard for dismissing/disproving a presented mythological being...

Ranchhoddas:
Uninformed assumptions. Traditional worshippers usually go through a series of proceesses to get desired results. Christians merely invoke Christ. That's the difference.

comon bro'
abstaining from ''sin''
fasting
praises
faith
belief
acquiring of the ''holy spirit''
even prayer is a form of a process
or are u saying that i as an agnostic now if i simply say jesus should raise my dead dog...he will?
Like i said...the style of christianity is not a standard for religion/ making of supernatural events...

Ranchhoddas:
Non sequitur.

its not a non sequitur to me.. They are one in nature...

Image123:
i speak for myself, not for others. i make my own
decisions.

are u calling yourself special?
Or better than those there or something?
That you deserve your wahever and they dont?


There is no problem there. If there is a vacancy somewhere and you are not aware, is it unusual that you are not employed? Others who here of the vacancy and qualify/apply will be employed.[/quote]still didnt attend to the issue

You lack any basis, i think that is the point.

thats the wrong conception...
Basis is via society,,culture,,and humane!

i see that you noted "What is good to you is just good because you think so. Tomorrow, you may not think so again.

?

" You lack a basis and are in no position to talk of those that have one.

ur basis is flawed..and vile

God wants/wills everyone saved, that is clearly stated in the Bible.
2Pe 3:9
1Ti 2:4

thats why the bible is a book with highly rampant contraditions..thatss why it is a man made book not divinely inspired..thats why you can pick which ever pattern you like and still think youre on the right track..i hope u know what i gave u was jesus's words?

Abba Father you mean? Deal with the facts, not fight them or live in ignorance.

define ignorance...facts and abba father

You seem to be looking for some special/particular kind of answer that you already have/choose. Deal with the facts stated in God's Word. instead of vainly and baselessly struggling with the morality.you actually need my help

wandering arguments...still left the issue...
I need your help on what exactly?
Remind me?

Why do you think so, i have never thought so.

science keeps on forcing christians to take the bible unliterally as it acquires new knowledge..
What ever you choose to be literal in your personal mind..then it becomes literal and vice versa
Soon it will be a story book...ok

Good, you asked if i was expecting others to believe the gospel, remember?

same reason they should believe the quran

i'd rather be told by a sinner that i do not believe the Bible,

wtf is a sinner?
Says someone who can sin as he likes and at his deathbed deceive his god or what?
Or someone who can do as he wants(sin) and when he is through refresh his browser by citing some funny words?
Youre making a joke on yourself with this sinner talk man

than believe like a sinner and be as confused as sinners are.

confusion is when u break the laws of a language to give yourself false hope and to try and block all facts to make a fable seem true

i read it.

smhw
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=AMP
stop contradicting yourself and your precious bible dude
m talking bout the universe man

Before when?

creation

Not really our business, is it? What we can establish is that they are not of our race. And that the Bible does not deny them or say that they never existed.

this seems like a nice cop-out tho..
Ur god supposedly created all u know?
u know they had dominion over the animals also?
They were also conscious u know?
They had your suppoosed ''souls'' u know??

Turn away from unbelief and disobedience to God and His expectation for us today.

how can i be disobedient to spiderman?

That's how. You are a sinner like other humans and have fallen short of the glory of God, that's why.

you are far short of the glory of allah,,zeus,vinshu...you have a lot of getting together to do you know..
And as per glory..he has no glory or whatsoever in my life oga...
He doesnt sustain me likewise spiderman doesnt help keep nyc criminals in check..so?

Ranchhoddas:
They do not do not do anything by just mentioning their names. You are just assuming. There is a diiference between Jesus and those other guys. Denial changes nothing.

smhw..
Traditional worshippers ask what they want from their wahever and it happens...
An ogun worshipper will call on ogun and ogun will send a bolt of lightning or stroke or wahever to who he wants...
Unless youre planning to say juju doesnt work../the people claiming so are just making up claims etc..
Like i said...the fact that such happens/is claimed by other sects is enough for me to be skeptical...
Nd i just used juju#nigeria which is where we are and such claims are bountiful and not scarce
...its plausible hindu's invoke names of their pantheon of gods and miracles happen or evil circumstances are averted..because they too still have their kinda ''rituals''...but im not in india and havent gone deep there so i cant be sure such claims are made or not...

Ranchhoddas:
It's you who did not comprehend. His statement made perfect sense. Something cannot be pink and invisible as pink comes from light. This is simple physics.

how then can an all loving all good and all loving,merciful god send my daughter to an eternal hell for stealing #100 naira from my own hard earned salary?
Whats moral/holy in ripping babies from pregnant women?
..the ipu is a direct parody of yahweh..

shadeyinka:
IFA prescribes sacrifices to appease the malevolent spirits. You have not been listening..I am not for appeasement or substitution. I root for eviction.

wait...in a christian-like deliverance manner?

I do not need to prove anything . I only asked about your personal practical experience in this field. If you don't have any credence keep quiet!

aiit..
Well if they do ''exist''..they know who they ''prey'' on..
Everyone's gat different levels.

hopefulLandlord:
They don't even know that the invisible pink unicorn was made as a parody of Yahweh

i cudnt help laughed hard when i read his comment..
He and the apologetic site really cracked me up

dueal:
Pull a weed from the ground and place it on a table. Look at it, it's still green and healthy; or is it?

im lost here..
After a while..the weed would dry up and become brown..its no longer in connection with the soil to keep it ''green''

Ranchhoddas:
Do you have words that you can attribute to Ifa or Ogun.

its followers have

Have you seen anyone do something supernatural by MERELY invoking Ifa or Ogun before or are you just making thingd?

the name of jesus is included here...
The same way pastors etc claim/say via jesus...ifa worshipper etc do so too...

BTW how does one use ''supernatural'' and ''fictitious'' in the same sentence?

i tried to use ''claimed'' a lot because i do not believe in such...
U wanna say ifa worshippers do not acknowledge supernatural events and attribute it to ifa?

mrZENographer:
Can we determinethe existence/non-existence of invisible pink unicorns? Actually, the answer is "yes." Unicorns would be pink if they reflected pink electromagnetic radiation (i.e., light). However, in order to be invisible, the unicorns would reflect no electromagnetic radiation. Therefore, the term "invisible pink unicorn" is self contradictory. Therefore, we know absolutely that they couldnotexist. I don't know who invented the term "invisible pink unicorns," but they were obviously deficient in their physics education.

However, for the sake of argument, let's change the term and drop the "pink" part.......

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/unicorns.html

this one didnt even comprehend
bruh learn to grab analogies not some apologetic nonsense

dueal:
@optimusmind

Why death? Why not death? What if I told you every action has an opposite reaction

i doubt so...#for ''every''
A lot of persons walkaway ''scot free''
e.g a runs girl may in the course of her business defraud a lot of men...
At some point in time ...she eventually gets married to a good financially sound nice guy(poisoned and bewitched her opponents on the man)..gives birth to loving kids...train them in church and she herself becomes religious..and at the end of her life...she dies peacefully

Ranchhoddas:
Where did I talk about juju? The only Being I talked about was the Jewish Teacher Jesus Christ. We are talking about whether He existed or not remember? It is you who is talking about juju and making things up. Ifa as far I know is consulted by diviners for future-telling while Ogun is the god of iron who strikes people down when they err.
I don't think that these were real people.

same reason to believe jesus is not necessarily existing as a being

Even if they were, how does it disprove the existence of Christ?

see..i said the fact that the claimed supernatural events at the invocation of a name is not restricted to christianity is enough for me to be skeptical...and i gave other religion(s) that do so...
Also like i said...the fact that supernatural events is not restricted to christianity..but claims are found in various religions attributed are also attributed to their fictional gods also...

HMZi:
call it what you wanna,u still wont have the answers u truly seek..am comfortable believing in a GOD,are u truly comfortable with ur stance?

never been better!

shadeyinka:
I do not want to speak for Muslims. I stated what I know.
The discussion was about the Efficacy of the Name of Jesus which I concur because I have used it and I know it works.

ifa''ogun's name is also alledgedly efficient..so?

The second issue was that ANY revered name works and I said NO.

traditionalists...grab?

I guess you have no personal experience in this field, you talk too much theory.

i live in a world of physicality..
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences...

.
What you read in books is different from reality.

this is an absurd claim tho!
Budhists do not ''manipulate chi''?
Psychology..u see the brain is highly prone to deceit....and subject to a lot of cognitive biases...even something as little as a variation of the size of a plate used in serving food can decieve this ''powerful brain''...
So basically..
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences

Ranchhoddas:
I have never seen nor heard anyone do such things at the mere mention of these name.

how then does your alledged juju work?? Sire?

BTW, are Ifa and Ogun real people, people who once lived? Remember that is the point of all these.

thats what you implied...that for something to work at the name of a being..it must have existed or is existing etc
so

Image123:
It is not at all what you said. You have a penchant for forcing your opinions to make the Bible say what it does not say.

u just lied oo

now you are doing the same with my words. You said that i am not responsible for my actions but that someone else is. i said NO, i am responsible for my actions. i even gave you scripture passages that shows so. Your conclusion against evidence is "still what i said...indirect"

u refused to adress the issue raised

The CONTEXT in which the Bible used the heart in the passages is not in the sense of a physical organ that pumps blood. It is the inner man.

wow wow so if it had said...
They thought in their brain..then t'wud have been a physical organ?

The Bible refers a lot to the human mind which is in the soul, that's your brain in case you are still looking for it in the Bible.

is the brain the soul?
Post the places im lost here...

Atheism is like coldness is absense of heat? i don't grab, sorry.

its not a thing!
Thats what am saying...

we shall all be changed, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be. But you cancelled it, why? You don't like the answer to your question. You really don't want there to be an answer, do you?

the change is it not from man form to a self sustaining spirit form??
I mean are u going to be me...and i u?

Atheism's benefit is truth? What is the benefit of that truth,

wtf is truth?

you are going in circles.

you are twisting what i said...
Not me

You say the benefit is openmindedness, Selfdepedency, U control and take responsibility,

thats openmindedness..
Religion makes u a close minded person...
And an irreligious/secular person is not exclusively an atheist..grab?

you become human and charitable.

never said that...thats humane!
not based on any religious views

Again like i insist, you do not need to be an atheist to have all that. Any nominal christian can have all that and still be a christian, so no benefits in other words.

and a christian can also be uncharitable and possess cruel...
Bt christianity/archaic books make it seem you need to believe in an archaic book to be good..

Yes, the trend is clear. You have also said it that you do not really basically value human life.

wow then the trend is also clear for christians..they based and justified their actions on passages in the bible...
So christianity is bad,,unscientific,,,,in support of slavery,,misogynistic,,barbaric,,in support of murder,, gosh ! just to mention but a few..

If given the powers, you would do same.

now this is quite silly!

Same ideology, same devil.

u know...we are all devils...
In allahs eye u are a devil..
In vinshu's eye u are the son of a devil or a devil..
In zeus's almighty bloody eye...u are a big devil...and his grace and patience on you will soon run out..

So the Bible is not relevant in discussing christianity? You really need to shake your head at the pathetic thing you wrote, i can't do the shaking for you my man.

is jesus not god?
Is he not the same god who stated the old testament?
Or are they not one being again?
Are they now acting and thinking separately?

Are you a christian?

are u an atheist

Can a christian be a pantheist?

i thought god is everywhere?
can an atheist be a millitant sinner willingly on the broadway to hell he doesnt revere?

No bell at all, more of an alarm. Christianity never reigned in Rome in the sense you say. Christianity is following Jesus, being like Jesus,

is jesus not god?

principled and guided by the Bible as it were. Not that a ruler says he/she is a christian. Fashola was a muslim governor in Lagos, but islam did not reign. i hope you can understand that. Buhari is a muslim, but Nigeria is not governed by Islamic way despite all the cries of the alarmists. It is not so, at least not yet. That someone in power claims to be a particular religion does not mean that religion is ruling. But when the Bible becomes the constitution, the order that is followed, like in Sharia states where they try to use the koran. That is what i am asking you to present example of. CHRISTIANITY has not been in state affairs control and brought catastrophe.

oh..but atheism has been in murders?
U cant escape this cobweb u created for yourself brother...admit the truth..its no ''sin'' to be truthful..

You don't seem to know what worship means.

then do u know what agnosticism is? Or tell me..define worship

No it is not. Is agnosticism misleading? Agnostics commit suicide all the time, does that prove anything is misleading or there is no afterlife?

not because of their afterlife beliefs..

God said mine, who said yours? No one but you. But you affirm yours to be true, so i ask.

must someone say something for you?
god said yours through a book...
This is what i mean..the bible thinks for you

What makes your wishes righter than any other person's?

its not necessarily a wish..i just said it that way

So you accept that i did not say so subtly. Animals are useless compared to humans, i do not hold your position that they are basically the same. If you feel so interested in judging them, you are welcome.

lol...a nice cop-out

Okay, a happy implantation. What does that mean?

a sure implantation

It is not a repeatable process, is it?

can god create humans again from clay?
Is his creation repeatable?
How does fertilization occur?
Fastest sperm oga..

Knowing you or creating you does not translate into forcing you to be what I know.

i ask again...are u nd ur supposed god equal?

He's on God's time which is eternally long to us but not to Him. See how that flew right over your head? If He uses man's language, you complain, if He uses His language, you still complain.

lol...but 3 days was 3 days...
How?
Lol sha...

Ranchhoddas:
Are you asking me or telling me? Which name do they use?

ifa/ogun etc for yoruba etc

shadeyinka:
Yes the Sumerians

not everything they said they did is through..its sometimes a case of ''finding what you want''..
The stuff im just yet to grasp about them is their knowledge of uranus and neptune...
But if their story is true...those ''aliens'' who supposedly stayed with them for eons of years would have taught them better stuffs like metal refining,,bore holes not stonehedges,,building of sundails with stones thats lame

the Greeks.

the greeks had brains...600BC is close enough for brains to be put to use

Ranchhoddas:
Which other sects make the supernatural occur at the invocation of a name?

traditionalists?

shadeyinka:
As a Theist, I believe that both Real and Virtual particle were created simultaneously and from the same source

i mean the virtual particles which come into existence via Q.F
or wait do you mean thats how it was created to be? Like the plan for virtual particles or something?

If our universe was created from the black hole of another universe, it still doesn't change the question of the laws of physics being violated. Its a question of extending time back to the formation of the universe who gave birth to our own dear universe.

If another universe can exist, then, one should NOT doubt the existence of other Consciousness. As Theists, we say God is THE Consciousness the origino-uno of everything.

that other universe which pro'ly gave rise to ours does not necessarily be ''eternal''..

..which is still an unverified THEORY (intelligent postulates)

nope! Its not a postulate
The inflation theory is verified...
Its like this...nigeria plays a match against india and at the end of 90 minutes youre told nigeria won by 1:0..
Its only natural to know that a goal was scored..thats inflation theory..
Also inflation theory predicted Gravitational waves would be in existence...some twenty + years later...(2015/2016) Gravitational waves was confirmed to be in existence

I laughed continuously for 15 minutes on reading this.

lol..for real?

The God we talk about is not subject to time because He is not made from ATOMS and MOLECULES. He is not subject to Gravity because He does not have a mass. He is not subject to the Laws of nature because He WROTE them.

i hope you know this is what ''you(theists)'' deem the god to be..
The starter/starters of the cosmos may not also be the starter/starters of bio life..

We are not bound to the rules of the computer because we made them!

quite true if you only mean that on a mechanical aspect and not a moral aspect..

Does the ATOM look unplanned to you?
How about Chemical Reactions?
How come the laws of Physics are "unchanging"

DNA unplanned?
Cells unplanned?

You know what I see, the smaller you go, the more detailed is the Meticulous rules imposed to govern it behaviour.

what kind of design/plan involves collision of galaxies?
Supernova's exterminating planets?
Natural disasters?
Dying stars ripping planets apart?
Eptomic pregnancies?
Whats the use of Human tail bones?
Design is supposed to be optimal!

How do you know etcivingiving enclosure is not nature made? Building Blocks, Cement, Functionality etc

stars like Fu orionis that started forming in the last century..how do u know that its not vinshu that is not controlling the creation of the star?

You may put your bet on gods however the harmony of the building blocks of the universe suggests ONE designer. Of course, God is a Spirit who has a kingdom of Spirit beings created for His kingdom. Some of the dissidents among them are what some humans call their own god!

?? A computer is made by many persons...but its processes are in harmony oga...
Whats up la?

Ranchhoddas:
Which other sects make the supernatural occur at the invocation of a name?

budhists meditate etc to attain a certain level where they can be able to manipulate and use the supposed ''chi energy'' to heal persons....this was taught by budha....
Shouting a god or a dead jew's name is not a standard for alledged miracles or supernatural events to occur..each religion has its style

shadeyinka:
Sorry for replying this late..work!

no problemo!

People don't go to hell because they committed sin. They go to hell because they are sinners (nature of sin)

i have verses in your bible which says ur god created some people specially for hell..
Also predestined persons like judas..his killers etc...??

Since you asked for who God is, it is your responsibility not to criticize but to comprehend who Theist (Christians POV) call God.

okay..if it fits the definition of what God who created this universe is supposed to be

God is the Master Scientist, Inventor, Designer and Sole Sponsor of the creation of the Spiritual and Physical Universe.

okay...why God and not Gods?
an analogy...look at an aeroplane...
Why an inventor and not a team of inventors each distinct and specialized in his own field?

He made the expanse of the universe as a type of "Garden" for his own pleasure.

the bolded could lead to a catastrophe!

Ok. But most people will. I guess I should have used Donald Trump as example. LOL!

lol..that trump is one big issue of a man!!!

You stated your own views and its not the final word!

true!..thats why more research is done into the area..

Scientifically, that is difficult, but I'll try

almost impossible if not impossible....but it would not have been so..
If the brain was actually recollecting memories of a material frequency which the brain itself experienced.

I read the article in the link above and I can see that the author does not understand the nature of the soul because of his fixed biases.

na it aint the authors bias...its a skeptic site..
But if u need a more objective source..wiki is there...but u can just to a google search on ''split-brain'' patients to review what im trying to imply

Most spiritual communication (Spirits Communicating with man)sing lift comes through your spirit (intuition/spontaneous knowledge) and relayed to your soul for processing and further action. (Just like information through your bodies sensory organs gets relayed into your soul).

the connection point and such a connection has not been observed by science..
Nor a directive and controller ''soul''

Think of your soul(will, emotion, intellect) like the Operating System and Associated Application program

where's/what's the spiritual identity of the computer?

If I use your statement of undiscovered law of physics, could it be that Atheist Scientists are operating strictly from the "Classical Point of View" in their comprehension of life? (Man exists as a singularity and not a duality/trinity)

it is only natural for science to be skeptical about anything termed ''supernatural'' or ''God''..
If science weren't...we'd still be attributing lightning and thunder to anger of Gods..
U catch?

shadeyinka:
Don't get me wrong, Muslims perform what is called Rukya (that is what Christian will term deliverance) on Jinns(demons).

They use mainly some special recitations from the Quran (some use in addition special waters, oils etc). But generally some verses are recited fro the Holy Quran.

The namebof Prophet Mohammed is NOT invoked as a means to free a person from Jinns.

at the end the person becomes free...it doesnt have to be by name..
A name of a god is not a standard for delivering the supposed demons..
U catch?

Muslims in the house can come in and substantiate or castigate this

the style of the practise of your religion is not a standard for religion!
So thats their own style...
Like budhists..they use meditation etc to achieve the level of manipulating ''chi energy'' for healing etc..thats thier own form of healing laid out by budha...it doesnt have to be budha's name...