₦airaland Forum

The question is;

Should an atheist believe in prophecy?

Logicboy03: https://www.nairaland.com/1554683/atheist-prophet

Either FSM is more powerful than I'd given him credit for...

Or those are just flatly generalised predictions.

HBG was always going to leave someday, whether today or in the next 50 yrs.

@martian has always been a walking time bomb. The etiquette on mars differ from those on earth.

rationalmind: Hopefully, she won't be replaced by another who refuses to learn

She would get replaced by @joshthefirst.

And you lives will become perfect.

#joshonpoint

#josh4mod2013

#pdp-power

rationalmind: Ok, I never knew about that.

And as for my use of prayers, I should had put it in quote. You couldn't wait to nail me

Hehehehe...

C'mon, you know I love you man.

Just couldn't resist that cheap punt.

rationalmind: I just noticed this now



Logicboys prayers have finally been answered

Who did @logicboy pray to?

The flying spaghetti monster?

She's been transferred to another forum. She left a goodbye message.

Can't shake the weird feeling now that one of you wacko atheists will get promoted to mod...

Prayer mode activated...

9jadelta: ^
god's freewill is too questionable.
god doesnt allow temptation, but he allowed satan to tempt job right?

I said;

God doesn't "allow" temptation, so he can get a sadistic kick out of punishing you later

9jadelta: he knew job would never fall for the temptation right before satan started it because his is omniscient, but he still allowed satan to go ahead anyway. he watched as satan killed all jobs innocent children for nothing. (dont forget that those children were living things too and probably believed in the god of their father). but they were mere pawns in god and satan's chess game that they both knew what the outcome would be.

which brings me back to the question, why allow these things to happen?

The Job thing was a very, very, did I say very, special case, to prove something very specific to Satan.

About the children, God gave Job children after the test. Since he was the person who created the initial children, and he is in charge of life and death, how do we know if he did not just recycle those very same children and return them to Job?

9jadelta: why create freewill to chose whatever u want and still punish whoever decided to chose wrongly.

Why did God create free will? Truth is only him can tell for a fact.

Why punish those who decide to choose wrongly? Because every choice has a consequence.

If for example, I choose to go and buy kalashin from aba market, and put a bullet in your head, do you think it would be right if God said "ah well, he's just exercising his free will"?

What about your own free will which I just ended?

Even man/society punishes people for bad choices.

9jadelta: Jeremiah 1:5 NIV - “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.

note that verse. god was talking to a prophet there... god created him to be a prophet right from the start.. he knew the wouldn't have a choice than to be a prophet even if he was killer before he became prophet like saul. god knows it would happen that way anyway


god knew what i would become cos he created me that way, why punish me again for doing what he created me to do?

Au contraire mon cher ami,

The verse is only saying God choose Jeremiah for a special assignment even from his mother's womb.

It is not insinuating that God sadistically creates evil people for laughs.

Hmm... This guy is ugly, lemme make him an armed robber... This girl is pretty, lemme make her a prostitute... This guy is nice, I'll send him to america, this other guy is annoying, lemme send him to nigeria

Like someone once said;

Nobody is created for evil, we just have our own unique circumstances to overcome...

You have your choice in the matter.

Well correct me if I am wrong, but...

1. I didn't see anybody teaching the apostles in the upper room how to speak in tongues - it spontaneously occurred when the Holy Spirit came upon them...

2. I haven't read anywhere in the new testament where the apostles "taught" anyone how to speak in tongues. The bible always recorded that "they prayed for them, laying hands upon them and the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spake in new tongues"...

3. The apostles wrote a lot of letters to a lot of new churches. I didn't read anywhere where they were advised to hold tutorial classes on speaking in tongues...

4. The apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write on everything from marriage to evangelism to church etiquette, but never on teaching people how to speak in tongues. I think if the Holy Spirit wanted it that way, he would have inspired them to do that too...

I believe speaking in tongues today should still take place today the way it did those days - spontaneously on the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

My two cents.

Kay 17: There is the inconsistency of Free Agency and Sin. If God grants man the free agency, to do whatever he likes and be responsible for the natural consequences, then it would be an evil to restrict and eliminate such agency. On the other hand, Sin being the disobedience of God's commands entirely diminshes free will, in the sense that man is compelled with the duty of obeying God rather than following his individual judgement.

A command leaves no room for discretion and demands obedience only.

On the contrary, God does not restrict free agency. This is the reason why there is so much pain and suffering in the world.

Imagine if God had restricted the free will of people like Osama or Hitler, life would have been so much better...

God typically does not interfere in man's activities - he intervenes when the marra don 2 much.

Anyway, I guess you mean that punishment for sin "restricts" man's right to choose in a manner?

True.

But really, should God not punish evil?

9jadelta: so, where is the over flogged response to ebamma's quote?

the omniscient god allows Satan to tempt his own children knowing fully well they would succumbed to the temptation right before the Satan begins it
and still punish u for falling for the temptation

smh for this ridiculously dramatic god self

Let me put it this way.

In order for you to have "free will" or @texanomaly's "free agency" God cannot disallow Satan from setting his own way before you.

If God restricts Satan from displaying his own part to you, and only allows you to see only his side, how can you be said to have free moral agency?

God doesn't "allow" temptation, so he can get a sadistic kick out of punishing you later. He gives you a choice - this is my way and this is the other way.

You then have the "free will" to choose.

nu-well:
I believe the following:
1. GOD is Just. HE instituted principles which govern life and can operate independently. Men can interact and relate with these systems with varying results.
2. HE reveals these principles to us in HIS Word and hence, everyone who hears and obeys, automatically gains an advantage in dealing with and succeeding on life.
3. HE does not and will not impose HIS will on anyone, but calls on all men to trust HIM, and depend on HIM, akin to your Free Agency theory.
4. HE can intervene on the behalf of anyone who asks and believes HIM to do so.
5. The enemy fully aware of these systems, tries to manipulate them to his advantage by keeping people ignorant of them. He often succeeds because people think they can handle the situation themselves without GOD.

N.B: I use the word 'system' as above, for want of a better description

Word.

The only problem is I am only able to like this post once.

@kasbeats

Hmm...

Some prayer that is. For your sake, I hope God reads posts on nairaland...

Truth is, in order to experience God, through Jesus Christ, you have to be sincerely born again - not just playing church...

Mix that in with faith, and you will experience God, and those doubts will disappear.

The question is - are you really born again? If so, hang some faith in there and take that prayer to God personally.

You'll get your own personal story.

Hang in there, K?

FOLYKAZE: Thor represent planet Jupiter the same way lucifer represent planet venus. So planet jupiter is in museum right?

Sango is electrical charge....lets see you pack whole electrical charge into a museum. Lol

After reading that, I think I should stop this discussion for the sake of my sanity...

Sorry @folykaze, you're a great guy and all but...

FOLYKAZE: The green part is wrong. Almah does not translate as virgin. How can I take error, inconsistence and fabrication as fact?

The red part said 'they shall call'. Show us where anybody or his parents called him Emmanuel in the bible. And show us where he claimed to be the Emmanuel.

Again... Emmanuel mean 'El with us'. Yahweh is not El. El is a canaanite God.

Waeva

Bigger falsehood to cover lesser ones.

First it was that there is no mention of emmanuel in the bible...

Now this...

Like I said to your pal @macof

Keep calling black white if that makes you happy...

FOLYKAZE: Why is your church using lightening rod?

Why cant you ask it to seize functioning in your body system? You dodged my questions to ask me this? Guy...you have only what you own.

Let me repeat myself...

rapture_ready: Because we know Sango is only an archaic myth and lightning is just electrical arc discharge between a negatively charged atmosphere and a positively charged earth?

FOLYKAZE: Tell us how Sango is a myth. Back it up with reasonable evidence. Correlate it Oriki (praise) with science.... Speculating here with words cant hold ground.

Science tells us that lightning is as a result of, I repeat, electrical arc discharge between a negatively charged atmosphere and a positively charged earth.

Not a result of some cranky yoruba fella hurling lightning bolts after drinking ogogoro...

You ever hear of the god thor in greek mythology? What, Sango is his evil twin? The Greeks have smartened up and put thor in the museums and tourist centres where he belongs. The yoruba are smartening up too.

You really should too...

FOLYKAZE: Lol.

You use what you have when you need it. What you have will always be either you use it or not.

So Sango decided not to use his mighty lightning bolts to save his own shrines and alters, and now he is surprised nobody worships him? Yeah, that sounds totally believable.

A more logical explanation is - he's just a myth. Like thor.

FOLYKAZE: Yahweh was defeated by foot soldiers. His children were killed in millions by Hitler. What is yahweh looking at when this people are killing his children? More than 50% israeli jew do not believe in Yahweh....95% do not believe in Jesus. Why is yahweh reluctant to this defeat?

And the BS jew neglect is what a mental slave from africa embrace.

No he wasn't. Did you read what I asked you to?

Hitler is paying for that even till today...

Those stats you posted are nonsense. Sorry.

FOLYKAZE: Jesus mean 'hail zeus'. You cant refute that. You have been deceived for age.

Jesus was nowhere called Emmanuel. No one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible. Lie

Emmanuel mean 'El with us'. El is a canaanite God. Yahweh is one of the children of El. So whoever is Emmanuel does not have anything to do with Yahweh. #koo

Matt. 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

How does the bible destroy two lies with one sentence in one verse?

Totally awesome!!!
#ilovethebible

FOLYKAZE: Rapture Ready....I got an eye opening article for you. It titled 'SANGO IS POWERFUL THAN YAHWEH'.

When Sango voice, everything on earth bow. What form of manifestation is Yahweh possessed with?

So where was Sango's mighty voice when Yahweh's missionaries came into yorubaland and tore down his shrines?

Him been get cough?

Guy open you eye to reality O! Abeg O!!

FOLYKAZE: Guy....sango is not powerful as you said. Why are you protecting your house from lightening? You should have not protect it so that you burn down with his wrath.

Why is your church and vatican using lightening rod? Lol.

Because we know Sango is only an archaic myth and lightning is just electrical arc discharge between a negatively charged atmosphere and a positively charged earth?

Again, I ask you, where was his mighty wrath when his shrines were torn down? How difficult is it to fry a few missionaries with lightning?

macof: result of their a sins or blessings from the God of Babylon.

The God of Israel predicted that years and years before it happened, warning them that he was going to allow Babylon overrun them if they continued in their sins.

Do you know what happened to the king of Babylon when he got proud and sought to gloat, thinking that he won the victory by his might, not that the God of Israel just permitted him to overrun Israel as punishment for their continued sins?

The God of Israel made him chop grass like ewu for seven years.

Where was "the god of babylon" then?

macof: But true communities do suffer for their sins.

Like Africa is suffering for it's sins...this is why we must seek atonement with the God of our fathers house

You mean the "god of our father's house" who let another God come into his own turf, destroy his shrines and take over?

When Darius the mede carried Israel captive, do you know what happened when he dared use just the cups and plates dedicated to the God of Israel for a party?

macof: So is Moses

Chilling in hell with Hitler?

Waeva

I guess you can believe whatever makes you happy.

macof: Die before achieving ur primal goals in life is nothing compared to living ur life to it's fullest. Heaven is not running away

this life is were they would all come back to finish their mission

And how do you know they have not achieved their primary goals in life?

macof: No wonder Muslims do suicide bombing

The allure of 72 virgins is strong...

macof: apply this theory to Your fathers God

2000 years after, christianity still exists, having overcome thousands of attempts to wipe it out... It is arguably the most popular religion in the world and is still growing...

One single attempt by foreign missionaries and solders wiped out "your father's god", and his followers are daily going into extinction.

"Your father's god's" ways are not working.

macof: Because horseshit is wat u have in ur skull

The last part of that post was total horseshit. Considering the fact that whatever you post began as a thought in your head, I would say you are looking at the wrong head...

FOLYKAZE: Your God was defeated in Judge 1:19. By ordinary men.

You read Judges 2:20-23

FOLYKAZE: Do you even know what Sango is? Let me enlighten you. Sango the divinity of lightening is a powerful electric charge that cause thunder.

I know what Sango is...

An old yoruba myth told to scare little kids into behaving...

FOLYKAZE: [b]Maybe you are in another planet and doesn't know the benefit of lightening. [/b]

• Lightning, as best modern science understand, is a channel of electrical charge. (the personified Sango is electrical charge)

• Thunder is a direct result of lightning. (the effect of Sango

Except I studied electrical-electronics engineering for 5 years...

And you can't even speak correct english.

FOLYKAZE: Only if you know that spirituality is different from religion. Yahweh is the god of the hills.... Nature force or Deities are needed to manifest and manipulated for the benefit of nature.

Only if you knew that both spirituality and religion differ from the urban myth you are selling...

FOLYKAZE: You were not brainwashed? Dont even bring that.

Only if you christian knows that Jesus....Iesous mean 'Hail Zeus'. Lol

Jesus is also called "emmanuel" in the bible. What does that one mean?

Hail Artemis?

macof: the Jews were carried into Babylon like bag of beans

The babylon thing was as a result of their sins. They were warned a few million times, and failed to take heed. Forewarned, forearmed. Babylon wasn't the first nation to attack them, were they? The same God had protected them every other time and defeated their enemies in outrageous ways before. Wasn't his fault they refused to listen that time...

macof: Hitler murdered their millions

And where is Hitler now? He lived to a ripe full age and enjoyed a peaceful, prosperous life? He didn't murder himself also and is not currently chilling out in hell?

macof: Christians killed in natural disasters, terrorist attacks against Christians.

So what? One way first class ticket to heaven. If you die by choking on a plate of indomie, or in a natural disaster, what does it matter if you get to heaven?

...And God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes...

macof: Now does this mean Yahweh is weak?
Pretty much so.

Nah.

He just has his ways.

macof: Amadioha and many of your Alusi don't fight for worshipers. Freedom is paganism.

That's why we don't evangelize in the first place.

Little wonder then that you guys have so few followers. Even atheists are evangelising their crap, so you guys may need to realise we live in an era of product packaging, branding and advertisement...

macof: We don't need evangelism, every sensible human being should live with his consciousness that is linked with his identity. You reject ur identity u can't be a pagan.

Paganism is not about worship
It is the tribal way

This part is just total horseshit...

Ishilove: I've learnt that being religious and being spiritual are two very different things. I've also learnt that atheists are a very confused bunch. I've also learnt that love is what has kept the world from imploding.

I have also realised that so many people need deliverance from the spirit of NL.

4 profound truths in 4 simple sentences in one post.

Post of the year.

DK Jaleel: they doing nothing now means they are powerless?? They aint just st.upid as ur god who acts before he thinks...
..and again, being powerful is not about being overly aggressive, wisdom beats that and that's the core of the african way. But thanks to duns like you, it's gone awry for us....

Well, you gotta admit that it's pretty ominous the way them missionaries came, declared them powerless - and went ahead to back up their claims by destroying their shrines and alters...

If amadioha had roasted the first missionary who came near his shrine with fire, do you think our forefathers will have turned to worship God?

Do you know how many people have tried to abolish christianity? Well, God didn't just sit up there and do nothing

macof: First of all it's stupiid to refer to ur God wit a "g" and "G" to another God.

No it isn't.

God defeated them all, which shows he is the bigger God, so he gets to keep the big "G".

macof: This shows how extremely brainwashed u are.

So it's a waste thinking of a reply for u, because u can never get it

That just means you gat natin 2 say...

F.L.O.O.R.E.D.

Hehehehehe

rationalmind: Telling you the truth.

Really?

The truth or what you believe to be the truth?

Here's an interesting proposition, how about you guys leave us alone to find the truth out for ourselves?

rationalmind: No, the forum isn't dedicated to religious deities. Its dedicated to religion as a whole.

Lol, telling you the truth.

Yes.

And you guys say religion is a form of "mental illness"

So again, what the *beep* are you guys doing here?

rationalmind: There are things you need to know about HIV/AIDS.

When one gets infected with the virus, the body produces antibodies which tries to fight the virus. If one goes for a test during this time, the test will actually show "positive" simply because most HIV tests don't actually detect the virus. They detect the antibodies.

Now, for someone with a good immune system, the antibodies sometimes succeed in fighting off the virus. When that is done, they (the antibodies) go into recession.

If one goes for a test during this period, the result will turn out as negative.

That's most likely what happened with the woman. It was her immune system that fought with the virus and not the prayers.

Hmm...

And I guess it doesn't strike you as odd that all that didn't happen until right after she had been prayed for at the program?

Oh wait, coincidence! The strong tower of refuge of the atheist...

I have malaria, and I took some drugs and it went away... Oh wait, it's not the drugs, it's just coincidence the illness left right after I took the drugs

rationalmind: So, you see, that's the difference between us. When you hear stuffs like that, without giving it much thought, you shout halleluyah like divepen and start feeling a miracle truly happened.

Oh shut the *beep* up

I hate it when you guys adopt a condescending attitude towards christians.

As if we don't understand anything at all about science and resorted to religion as a result of our ignorance.

macof: Buddha is not a deity.

He is a spiritual teacher

Waever.

As if.

*rolls eyes*

macof: 3. Christians are brainwashed to think Israel's God is their God, they forget their ancestors and don't know their history trying to trace their origin to Israel

Yes.

Except Israel's God's missionaries came to our shores, tore down the shrines of our gods, destroyed their alters and abolished their worship - and our gods stood by and did absolutely nothing!

Where was Sango's fabled thunderbolts, or amadioha's mighty wrath etc.?

We were not brainwashed, we only chose to side with the greater power...

*dancing*

Jesus power, super power
Jesus power, super power...

rationalmind: The analogy you gave doesn't really follow because you were talking about a forum dedicated to FSM. This forum isn't dedicated to Yahweh. So, the analogy doesn't follow.

Actually, FSM does not refer to Yahweh alone. It represents any religious deity from sango to Buddha. This is a forum dedicated to religious deities, and correct me if I am wrong, you guys believe in none. You don't even concede they may exist, and you think we are all just a bunch of mental cases.

So it begs the question - what are you guys doing here?

rationalmind: I attended twice and listened to some of the "miracles".

There is nothing miraculous about them. There are natural explanations to virtually all

Is it the one who was kidnapped and later released or the one who claimed his father cursed him n the curse has been affecting him?

I think I remember one woman who was healed of HIV/AIDS? What is the natural explanation for that one?

She brought the hospital report/test result for when she was diagnosed with it, and the recent test results which showed her negative, so we can't say she was just lying.

rationalmind: most of us were once christians

Well, you gotta admit, it's still weird.

If for example, I say the flying spaghetti monster does not exist, you'll have to ask what am I doing on a forum dedicated to the flying spaghetti monster, and why do I spend all my time there, and make ten times as more posts than even the very people who worship the flying spaghetti monster?

Unless you guys still secretly fear God...