₦airaland Forum

rationalmind: You find the story of plants created before the sun plausible and how the all powerful God rested because he was tired.

Plants created before the sun? I'm quite sure the bible never said that.

That's probably a typo and you mean planets, hopefully. What stops him from creating the planets first? The bible did say he "set the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night" which is probably where he set the whole solar system and gravity gimmick in place, whether he chose to create the planets or sun first is immaterial.

The bible never said God rested because he was tired. That may just be metaphorically saying God stopped because he was done.

rationalmind: You agree with me the universe is expanding. If the universe is expanding, it must have started from a particular point.

Agree with the first.

Disagree with the second. Whenever something expands it does not mean it started as point mass.

For example, if you heat up a volume of air, it expands. Does it mean the volume of air began as point mass? Even if you remove every last amount of heat from it and take it to absolute zero temperature, it still retains some energy, called zero point energy. It still also retains some mass and volume. If the big bang theory were in any way true, then because all substances expand, thus at absolute zero, all substances will
be a point mass singularity.

rationalmind: The big bang theory is an attempt to try to explain that particular point where the expansion started. Its the best explanation for the evidences at hand. If anyother explanation or evidence comes out tomrw, it will be thrown out of the door.

No one is saying the theory is 100 percent true. Its just that, given the available evidences, its the most plausible explanation

Thank you.

You are the first atheist to willingly admit this to me on NL.

The last time I told your friends making fun of the creation story, that their darling big bang theory is also imperfect, they just jumped down my throat.

Please help me and tell them too...

rationalmind: Lol, its a long story. A very long story. Its a journey that took two years

Short summary pls.

Which district church u been de go?

rationalmind: But ure ready to accept a less plausible hypothesis.

The story in genesis 1 is a heck of a lot more plausible than the big bang theory.

An intelligent creator creates the universe vs it appeared out of nowhere as a point mass singularity of zero volume and infinite density spinning furiously and then at some point it decides to explode and create a bunch of humans...

rationalmind: Well, I was also formerly a member. Hopefully, you'll also thread the path I threaded.

WHAAAATTT!!!

What happened then?

Reyginus: Let me surprise you by turning the question slightly up-side-down.

Bros you have been giving me pretty straight answers since. Wetin cum happen now?

Reyginus: The problem with your question is that, it is assuming that there is no document that claims to proof the existence of god.
It is assuming that there is no portion or group of men who have already, laid claim to proof of god.

Well according to atheists, "documents" like the bible cannot be accepted as evidence because they do not follow the usual basis of proof - which is logic.

They also argue that direct claims from any "group of people" about having proof of God cannot be verified/corroborated.

I've even had similar arguements with some of the gang in here.

Reyginus: You failed to consider that with this limited perception, observational techniques and experimental technologies, these men are certain that god is in existence.

Since this is so, a simpler way of deducing if he exists is by looking into the claim presented by these group of humans. You may wonder why we shouldn't just ignore them and go ahead with the search, but, that in itself, will be a futile search for nothing.

The moment we begin to search for him outside the qualifications and so-called proof his worshippers relate with him we are then not searching for god but something else, but if we are to use the qualities attributed to him, we can only do this by questioning and deducing from their so-called evidence.

I humbly beg to differ.

Whatever "evidence" any group of people have proffered based on "this limited perception, observational techniques and experimental technologies" have always been laughed off for the same reasons I mentioned above.

So there is no real way of "deducing if he exists is by looking into the claim presented by these group of humans"

I mean what if somebody told you he/she died and saw Jesus and heaven, is there any scientific way to "look into" that claim?

My assumption is correct.

Reyginus: God as defined and qualified by the theist cannot be identified by any technology. If it happens, then what you have as the christain or muslim god is certainly not in existence.

So it is not a question of prooving it by scientifical means.

So you admit that God cannot (yet) be proved/disproved using existing technology.

Why then do atheists go about claiming he does not exist as if they have proof?

Answer my original question.

Is it not possible that God very well exists, just that our scientific tools and human perception are limited and cannot find him yet?

rationalmind: Are you a deeper life member?

Sometimes.

rationalmind: You just choose not to accept it

Oh we accept it all right. Just not all of it.

For example, we don't need some flawed hypothesis to tell us how the universe or man came about...

rationalmind: before you pray for me? N if I do that and my height refuses to increase after your prayers?

Where is the faith you were claiming to have right now? E don disappear?

Then I will refer you to Pastor Kumuyi. Just like doctors refer serious cases to teaching hospital...

Reyginus: Yes. They are limited but I also think they can be made better with time.

Next question.

Does the fact that it is possible our limited perception, observation techniques and experimenting technologies cannot yet prove the existence of God, mean he doesn't exist?

Reyginus: Okay. I misunderstood his question if that is what he meant. I think you are right.

But I can bet he meant it to be the technologies employed.

Exactly.

You understood my question very well. I was referring to the scientific method which includes observation and experimentation which are done using techniques and technologies that can be improved.

No mind @flawedlogicboy.

Logicboy03: You miss the point.

Joshthefirst was using "cousins" in literal sense.

Why? Because if it were metaphorical, it wouldnt be mentally ridiculous to him


The scientists use tthe word "cousins" in a non-literal way to mean that we are closely related to bonobo since they have a very c lose dna to our common ancestor

Again, you still miss the point.

His literal use of "his cousin" was actually meant as an insult, not a claim that humans and bonobos were born by the same grandparents.

You guys would just rather believe the most possible worst 'bout christians.

Logicboy03: Guy.....Evolution tells us that all animals are related..some more closely than others... now how does that translate into bonobos being our cousins because that is an entirely different statement.

Actually, YOU misinterpreted what @joshthefirst was saying. The phrase about bonobos being "our cousins" is not a "different statement".

You don't have to take my word for it. Let's ask google...


Web Images News
Extraordinary images that show just
how similar we are to our ...
4 Sep 2013... images detail the
remarkable similarities between
humans and our closest living
relatives, bonobos.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-24...
Meet your cousin: the bonobo | Africa
Geographic Magazine Blog
25 Nov 2013 ... Bonobos are our
closest living relatives along with
chimpanzees, find out some
interesting facts about ...
blog.africageographic.com/africa-ge...
Bonobo - Wikipedia, the free
encyclopedia
... biologists like Jeremy Griffith to
suggest that bonobos may be a living
example of our distant human
ancestors.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo
Researchers complete the genome of
our promiscuous cousins | Ars ...
13 Jun 2012 ... Bonobos are a species
within a species. ... complete the
genome of our promiscuous cousins.
arstechnica.com/science/2012/06/res...
WWF - Bonobo
Bonobos, arguably our closest
relatives, live only in the Congo Basin
rainforests of central Democratic
Republic of the ...
www.panda.org/../bonobo/
Bonobo Handshake: What Makes Our
Chimp-like Cousins So ...
4 Sep 2007 ... What's it like to work
with relatives who think sex is like a
handshake, who organize orgies with
the ...
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...
Bonobos - Our Wise Cousins -
acceLAWrate
VIDEO - www.accelawrate.com
The bonobo, the chimp's sexpot
cousin, gets its genome mapped (+ ...
13 Jun 2012 ... Bonobos are apes that
are as closely related to humans as ...
[Animal Code: Our Favorite Genomes].
www.csmonitor.com/
Science/2012/0613...
Bonobo Handshake: Learning from our
cousins in Congo | North ...
In the midst of the war-torn Congo,
there exists a peaceful society in which
females are in charge, war is
nonexistent, ...
naturalsciences.org/programs-events...
Bonobos Join Chimps as Closest
Human Relatives | Science/AAAS ...
13 Jun 2012 ... Chimpanzees now
have to share the distinction of being
our closest living relative in the
animal ...
news.sciencemag.org/plants-animals/...
Next page »


For an atheist, your scientific knowledge is quite poor. @MrTroll and your other buds will be ashamed of you...

Logicboy03: You and Joshthefirst minsterprete and misunderstand science and then put your ignorance on science as the atheist position.

And you've got the guts to call somebody else "ignorant"...

Just because we are christians doesn't mean we've got an inferior understanding of science.

Many great scientists of time past, and even some of present are christians.

Reyginus: Ofcourse it is limited, but it is also more importantly in a constant evolutionary advancement. It can only get better with time.

Ok.

Do you also agree that the scientific methods by which we make inferences/deductions on which we base our evidences/proofs are also by extension limited?

Logicboy03: 2)Bonobos are our cousins? You high, bro?

Well according to the evolution theory, they are the closest species to the human species.

Initial genetic studies characterised
the DNA of chimpanzees and
bonobos as being as much as 98%
(99.4% in one study) identical to that
of Homo sapiens.[18] Later studies
showed that chimpanzees and
bonobos are more closely related to
humans than to gorillas.[19] In the
crucial Nature paper reporting on
initial genome comparisons,
researchers identified 35 million
single-nucleotide changes, five
million insertion or deletion events,
and a number of chromosomal
rearrangements which constituted
the genetic differences between the
two Pan species and humans,
covering 98% of the same genes.[20]


Weird that you don't seem to know this

Logicboy03: 1) Who told you that I believe the crap in bold?

You don't believe religion or science, which one you dey?

rationalmind: Ok. I've believed, repented n have faith. Your prayers now

Really, that's great news.

Now go ahead and denounce every Godless statement/post you've ever made, let us all know that you've truly repented.

Logicboy03: But the story has been repeated with some agreeing with it!!!

Emphasis on some. Na dem sabi whether dem dey read bible upside down.

And of course...it doesnt apply to all christians

Exactly. Most christians know the right to pass judgement on a man after death belongs exclusively to God.

Reyginus: Lol. No. By that, I meant that your definition of sensible is when it suits your taste. That's wrong bro.
I'm more concerned about questions right now. Feed me more questions if you have.

Weirdly interesting thread.

@reygenius I'm not sure if I admire your creativity, or think you are taking an incredible risk. You faith in God is not something you should fool around with. The Devil is not playing games...

Anyway, in the spirit of things, lemme ask one question...

Do you agree human perception is limited?

Logicboy03: Cant prepare for hell fire......it doesnt exist

You'd really would rather find out the hard way, wouldn't you?

Hmm...

Logicboy03: The above question keeps ringing in my head with alarming anger when I see christians, especially African christians who condemn this great man to hell. It is not as if these christians have endured what this man has endured for the freedom of his country. Can they walk in his shoes?

Bros, chill...

If you pay attention to the story, you will see that it was written by two men...

The opinions of some two guys do not reflect the thoughts of all christians.

Logicboy03: Lol... I just had a lot of xtian examples at The time

Ya, right.

Like una fit go try islamists, make dem issue fatwa 4 ur head, 4wad ur contact details give boko haram...

In other news, how are you preparing for hellfire?

@op your topic says "religion", but your post looks a heck of a lot more like a thinly veiled poke at christianity...

Is christianity the only religion?

Y r u fellas always hurling barbs at us? Na because se we tell una say una de go hellfire?

Hw d prayer go work when u no get even shi-shi tikim faith?

Believe first, repent, then we will pray for you...

As the bible carry put am...

Heb 11:6 ...But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that
diligently seek him...

macof: Those movies are full of lies and misinformation to the society.
I wouldn't advise any seeker of knowledge and truth to watch those

What lies?

aManFromMars: You quickly forget that priests like Aaron were the Israelite's own village dibias. And their God has killed more people than all the Gods of the African religions.


But the African religions are the demonic ones.. funny.

Lolz

Well, at least they didn't dress up all funny and put human skulls all over the place...

And if you gave them money to kill your brother because he is dragging land with you, they'll kick you out...

However, the point of my post was to tell @op to read Hebrews 11

Mr Troll: Yes yes. And movies where they kiss too. Premarital kissing is also sin.

So let's see...no romantic movies, no action movies, no 'enchantment' movies. Er...wetin go remain?

Christian movies?

Which you watch and are edified in spirit?

Arcsniper: Pls fellow xtians, can someone tell me how to believe God exits.
I have been trying to believe that but it hasn't been possible,doubt upon doubt,as i keep reading the bible doubt keep getting stronger.
But am bent on believing Gods existence.Am forcing my self to believe God existence.
So someone should tell me how do i go about it.

Note:if you ain't a xtian please don't talk MUSLIMS are permitted to contribute

While God isn't big on show boating, and the bible says:

Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to
please him: for he that cometh to God
must believe that he is, and that he is
a rewarder of them that diligently seek
him.

Lucky for you though, there is an indirect, roundabout manner of proving that God exists.

Go and try una village dibia, and let him deal with you and prove to you that Satan exists, then you'll know that conversely, God must also exist.

Or you can just read Hebrews chapter 11 all through.

A.B.S.O.L.U.T.E.L.Y. N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

#believertillIdie

GreenBobo: from wat i av heard nd read..
Glo's beta... follwd by
Etisalat..Zain...nd MTN bein d least...

I use MTN

So the "everywhere you go" thing na lie? Don't think I can be totting around 2 or 3 sim cards.

I GO PORT O!!!

I hear that benue state pays corpers zero thousand naira?

Why is that na?

We fit form our own union, begin strike?

TONYE001: /Makes room for a good ventilation, eases any clothe tightening, elevates your lower limbs to increase the gravitational pull which would lead to an increase in blood supply to your brain, calls for help, waits for you to recover../

Jus tank ur God say u no say "starts mouth-to-mouth CPR".

I 4 jus wake up punch u straight...

@tonye001 uniport don dey giv dia own 2de. On ma way dia...

elari: benue ain't a bad place to be. forget all those hiv and aids stuff. cheap food and every other thing. wish u all good and happy stay.

HIV and AIDS stuff?

*faints*