₦airaland Forum

bigd4050: Yes, Christ has said that. When people come and say "I did works in your name and did miracles! And I spoke in your name!" Christ says "I did not know you." Those people's repentance was not genuine. There's one point for me.

2) The repentance if the thief was different because Christ said it was. Other than that, I would have no idea. But we know that just because you do some good acts and say some good things doesn't make you a Christian. See my last sentence for that. The repentance MUST be genuine. The thief's heart changed right there, because he confessed right there and Christ accepted it. Someone who knows they should repent but doesn't is living in rebellion. I don't know how many times I must repeat this.

3) I'm not sure I understand your first point about Peter and Judas, can you explain that again?

What do you think you did up there? You just wrote rubbish. The main issue that GOD HIMSELF (and JESUS demonstrated it) that whoever repents- as long as the person is still alive- will be saved. What is your point to support that such a person will not be saved?

Have you ever heard of the parable of the farmer who hired several people at different times of the day and paid all of them the same wage at the end of the day? Pray that you do not rather lose your salvation at the last hour because you will not be considered because of your earlier deeds.

I am surprised you don't know about what I said about Peter and Judas. The way you came jumping in, you gave the impression that you had some little knowledge of the scriptures but it is obvious that you are a novice. Go and do your research on Peter and Judas before we continue this.

bigd4050: Your not being charitable...your being outdone. I already laid out my points, read my above post. I encourage you to start doing the same instead of trolling.

I can only laugh at you. You are here for a debate? Well there may be many people around who may be ready to engage in unfruitful debate but I only seek those that will bring some fruits. adieu!

bigd4050: Actually, your wrong. You never prescribed gambling to just yourself. You said "I have known instinctively since birth that gambling was a sin because the Holy Spirit told me." You never said it just being a personal standard, you naturally applied it to everyone. YOU told EVERYONE else what sin is, and its sin not put in the Bible My point is that God won't say gambling is a sin because it is a wisdom issue, not a sin issue. It becomes a sin if you blow all your money on gambling and lose it, because you are a poor steward. But if you want to take a little bit that wouldn't harm you, I say go for it. And you can't just call it filthy money and not say why. Your still stuck on the "I just feel like its wrong" thing, and that's unacceptable. You can't prove its wrong. You just have a feeling. So your point is moot.

LoL...You don't understand English as well. I rest my case on you

bigd4050: Repentance is an actual heart change, not just words you say. If what you said is true, than no Israelite or Jew would ever go to Hell. They all offered sacrifices to God in repentance, and yet there were times when God opened up the ground to swallow them whole in disgust. Judas was with the disciples for three years, learning from Christ, I'm sure he did some verbal repenting. Yet he betrayed Christ and killed himself. He wasn't saved.

Like I said in my last post, the guy on the cross had a genuine heart change. That was what made the difference. Someone who doesn't really want to repent until he is about to die, when he knows he should, will not be saved.

That being said, I think there are some people that do come to Christ on their deathbed, having finally accepted God's grace. But these are the people who didn't tell themselves forty years earlier that "they would repent and accept God" on their deathbed.

Have you said anything different from your last post? You are saying that Peter was better than Judas? If Peter was forgiven for doing three-times what Judas did, what makes you think that if Judas had not hanged himself, he will have been saved?

How did you know that the heart of the thief was genuine and not that of a person who has been caught? Every thief will tell a policeman that he will not repeat the offense. How was the repentance of the thief any different from that one? Did Christ ever tell anyone while on this planet that "you are not forgiven because your repentance is not genuine"?

bigd4050: If you have that weak of a conscience that you won't even think rationally about it, then let that be on you. Let your feelings guide you if you want. But don't come and tell others that its a sin to do because you had some "feeling." I'm a Christian, and I've never had the feeling that its wrong. So we have two Christians with two opposed "feelings." Who is correct?

I've given my reasons why I think it is acceptable. Instead of saying how you feel, do you have any rational or logical reasons as to why you think it is wrong?

You are one funny character. Unlike you, did you realize that I intentionally limited my response to myself? Did I prescribe it to anyone? You are practicing a very dangerous form of Christianity by telling people what is sin and what is not. What will be your fate when GOD comes back and tell us that gambling is indeed a sin? Will you tell HIM that because HE failed to write it in the Bible you can go scot-free?

The logic that you gave is as good as poo regarding why gambling is not a sin.

bigd4050: As a Christian, I see many churches that hold the view that gambling is a sin. I'm not really sure why. I've never seen anything in the Bible forbidding it, so at the worst, it is just unwise. People may be a bad steward of their money, but if you made the money and you tithe like the Bible commands, there should be no reason why you don't spend your money towards your interests.

If gambling was wrong, so would investing in any kind of stocks, its a huge risk as well.

Tithing is by no means a way to cleans filthy money!

bigd4050: He was because he was genuine in doing so. Someone that is genuine in serving God is going to turn their life over RIGHT AWAY to God. They no longer want to live their own life, but the life God wants them to. Someone who lives how they want their whole life and then flips when its suddenly suitable for them is not a Christian in my book. I know people by their fruit. That type of fruit is not about serving God but about serving themselves.

Have you read the text at Luke 23:40-42? Are you saying the guy came to CHRIST's saving knowledge only on the cross? The guy knew he was going to die and asked to be saved. He was saved so what makes you think that will be different for others?

In any case, as Muskeeto pointed out, GOD has told us HIMSELF that anytime that we repent, once we are still alive, HE will forgive us.

bigd4050: No, I would bring up what I said before about relationship and repentance. If you know you should repent, yet don't and live your life in sin until the last possible moment, you won't be saved. That would mean that you know God exists but never really sought out a relationship and repentance. To do that knowingly is unacceptable. What would happen to that person if they died unexpectedly? They knew God existed, yet never actually wanted to serve him until they wanted to (at the end of their life). God won't accept that kind of life, it was never really marked by any true repentance.

And who are you to determine who will be saved and who will not? Have you ever read about the thief on the cross? He even knew about JESUS more than some of the Apostles but yet lived his life as a thief. Was he saved or not?

Goshen360: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 timothy 4:3-4 nkjv

There is one fact about sins that the Bible did not explicitly spell out. Since I was born, I have known instinctively that gambling, any form at all, is a sin and that has to be the work of the HOLY SPIRIT. Once I have that inbuilt intuition, I will rather allow that to lead my path than take chances

bigd4050: Like I said before, you just made another non-argument. You didn't present any facts, anything of value to the thread. You just spouted off an emotional response, one that really can't be debated over. That's why your a worthless debater. But I'll still take the bait.

1) What makes you think I know everything? I'm flattered you think that, because I sure don't, and I never said that either. There's another debating lesson: don't put words in someone's mouth.

2) What are you trying to say about Christian temperaments? What does being an evangelist have to do with anything? I'm a Christian, doesn't mean I have to be a jerk to people. Christ dealt with the Pharisees and Saducees all the time, yet only a few times did he insult them. Yet you verbally attack people in every post! I beg of you to show me why that's acceptable.

3) I won't your case until you put something worthwhile up in this thread.

I decided to ignore you but I may have to deal with you on this one. Whoever told you that I am here to debate? As an evangelist, I am here to present the facts and if anyone does not find it palatable, then that is their case. If you were intelligent, you would have seen from the beginning of the thread that the guy came up here on this thread just to spew out his ignorance. He asked me questions and I gave him the answers that he sought.

If that did not serve your interest then suit yourself.

Goshen360: Well, If you have made up your mind but before you step down from God, listen to my story.

Many years back when I just gave my life to Christ back home in Nigeria. I grew up with my uncle but after my polytechnic, I had to return back to my biological father to assist him in our family business. I was there back home then in Badagry, Lagos State when I lost 3 of my sisters in an accident. Right on the spot of the accident, they all died. It's a long story as it involves many things that was later revealed. On the accident scene, I felt like burning the vehicle that hit my sisters while ridding on the Okada but I don't know where this voice came from that, I should not do it as many things are invisible to my eyes.

I write this not to convince you, should in case your mind is already made up but, that you know that worse things had happened to good people in the past than what had happened to you. I feel heavy in my heart as I write you even as I remember my sisters but however, I also use this moment to console you and your family. All over the world, things are happening but God knows best. What shall separate us from the love of Christ? As for me, nothing. Not even life nor death.

I console you in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. God knows best but don't make decision in a haste.

Thank you and God bless you.

Goshen, you have my sympathy on the loss of your sisters. Our LORD will surely reward you for your strength and steadfastness!

Logic Mind: no, sorry. your god needs me. he has been sending jehovah witnesses and mormons to my door asking me to come back with all sorts of promises. His messengers are on tv, radio, internet and roadsides begging me to come to him.

he needs to humble himself and step down from his pedestal and come to me himself if he wants me to listen to him.

Continue to delude yourself . Of course you will see GOD. You will either see HIM crying or happy and that depends on what you do. I hope you drop your folly and give a bid grin when you see HIM

bigd4050: They also deeply knew the people that they called that, because they could see the actions that those people took. You know nothing about the people here, yet in a debate of facts, you resort to name calling. Its extremely adolescent, and yet you kept doing it. The best response you'll get from anyone over the age of 12 is an eye-roll because it makes you look like you don't know anything. The Bible may call unbelievers fools, but like I said, if you are truly trying to live a Christian life, you don't just call people that. You show a little respect.

What makes you think you know everything? Did you read through the thread? Do you know anything about Christian temperaments? If I tell you that I am an evangelist, what will that mean to you? My friend, if you have nothing better to say, just stay off my case.

bigd4050: No surprise there, every thread I go onto rastamouse is trolling, his arguments are incredibly weak so he stirs up conflict.

As to what you said before, I think it is because the Christians who dare to speak on the internet are attacked so easily. We know the arguments your going to say, so we often try to cut you off. I think this is done by both atheists and Christians, atheists just say things like "you stupid illogical faith believing..." and so on. You know our arguments and care more about proving us wrong than hearing us, and Christians do the same thing. I actually agree with you that if there could be some respect given for someone else's point of view, there would be much more effective debates.

Let's move on to your argument about going to the Bible and bringing up Hell everytime you disagree. I think first of all, bringing up Hell to scare someone because your losing an argument is pathetic. Its brought up so much it has lost its effect. And its only brought up when people are losing an argument. If they are winning, you never see it. Its the Christian way of saying "well I lost the argument, but you'll lose in the end1" and that is one of the most pathetic things I think a Christian can do. At least explain why or say it earlier in the argument. Don't just throw it out there because your a crybaby that lost.

As for why we quote the Bible: it is because we accept the Bible as fact. We go to a book just like you do. I am 100% positive that you haven't tested all the things you believe yourself, you have probably read most of them. So you still put your faith in books or websites too, its just from the opposite side of the spectrum. And you can't say your beliefs in evolution are scientifical because they have not been proven as fact, nor have they refuted Christianity, or it would not still be around.

Why don't you just concentrate on giving your points? I might not be this charitable on you the next time. and BTW what are the logical points that you think you make?

Logic Mind: Now you are comparing yourself to john the baptist and apostle paul.

Look at this kind of reasoning...You really need GOD my friend...Do you know that among that things that HE give freely is wisdom?

musKeeto: lol, what do you expect from a mouse from jamaica?

bigd4050: And @rastamouse: You need to stop being rude. If you really a Christian, and want to win souls over to God, do you think calling people fools over and over is going to win them over to your cause? You should be even more cordial then them, but instead its the other way around. When you call someone a fool, it puts them on the defensive, it makes them not want to be won over to your cause, but to disagree with you. And then you just keep calling them fools after they bring up counter-arguments. You need to learn how to debate people. Name-calling and obnoxiousness doesn't win arguments or respect for you.

I agree with you my bro on several points on that but why would you call me rude? When John the Baptist called the people generation of vipers, was that rude or fact? Was it a fact or just plain rudeness when Paul called the Galatians fools? Is it rude or a fact when the Bible call someone who does not believe in the existence of GOD a fool?

In any case, if you read through the thread well, it was him who came here asking for how I should call him according to my Bible and as far as I know, I gave him the truth.

I have an assertive woman as a wife and it has both its advantage and disadvantage. She is very resourceful and that makes life much easier for the family. However...hmmmmmm

deleo16: sin is anything done out of Gods love

To add to that, sin is the absence of JESUS in your life. If you live and love the dark, you are a sinner. Sin is not necessarily individual acts and thoughts, it is a way of life.

With that said, A Christian is anyone whose life is directed and authored by the LORD. That is why true Christians do not lose their salvation because they cannot sin.

Logic Mind: and please remind me of the consequences of my folly.

HELL!

Logic Mind: well, logic tells me that speech is not a function of the heart.

Well that is what makes you a FOOL!

toorich: Read John 1:19-20 and know who John said he is

So U̶̲̥̅̊ think God reincarnate people? That's so wrong!
who did Elijah enter Zechariah or Elizabeth or did he jump from space?
The bible has said something about the return of Elijah in the book of Revelation, U̶̲̥̅̊ can google it.

Correct your assumption, Jesus said before Abraham "I AM" he didn't say "I was" and he didn't make A̶̲̥̅̊‎ grammatical blunder(go and read it again), he knew exactly what he meant and he wasn't talking about his years of existence. So your point don't count on that scripture. Well if you care to knw what he meant you can ask politely and I'll tell you.

Well it is clear this is not in your league. This discussion is over because you are not matured enough to understand what is being discussed here.

Cya

Logic Mind: you got me wrong there. i don't deny his existence. i acknowledge and praise him. see https://www.nairaland.com/904712/logic-mind-praises-lord

i am just annoyed that you will blatantly disobey him because someone else has better arguments than you.

the bible clearly calls those that say there is no god fools. Infact the author repeated it twice: in psalm 14 and psalm 53.
However you are attributing to the bible what it clearly did not say.
The bible calls fools only those that say in their hearts there is no god. It was very specific about that and if you didnd't get it in psalm 14, he reminded you of it in psalm 53.
I have never said such in my heart and I have no special ability of telling anyone who has.
It therefore transpires that you are blatantly, in the name of jesus, disobeying the very unequvocal rules he set for you in Mathew 5;22: But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire

You are the only one here going against the bible, showing anger, insulting people and disobeying god.

Have you ever heard that out of the abundance of the heart is what the mouth speaks? What kind of illogical reasoning is that?

Don't mind that atheist. He is just here to mock you guys

[quote author=Sisi_Kill]Person A - I don't believe there is a God and in the accuracy of the Bible

Person B - Ah! How can you say that?!! The Bible says God. . .

Person A - There is no Hell

Person B - Yeparipa! You going straight to hell for that because the Bible says. . .


I've never understood the logic behind quoting the Bible to win an argument against someone who doesn't believe the Bible or trying to change someone's mind by threatening them with something (like Hell) they obviously don't believe in it.


Honestly, It is almost as if it is a knee jack reaction. . .they see something they think is "against" Christianity and without even bothering understand the other POV before ramming Bible verses down their throats and threatening them with fire and brimstone. How do you hope to win a debate if you don't even attempt to understand what your opponent is saying, so you counter it properly. . . No wonder most of the "discourse" on this section always end up in pointless arguments.[/quote]Have you ever considered that hell may be real that is why so many people talk about it?

Me too. I want to help in the prayers just drop your email...I will contact you and believe with you

ogbori: who be this? Did you see anything like smoking na sin in what i wrote. HIS STATEMENT IS BOUND TO ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO TAKE THEM, AND WHEN THEY DO, HOW MANY CAN CONTROL IT. FOR A LEADER, PASTOR, FATHER, OR ONE WITH SOME LEVEL OR MORAL, YOU DONT NEED TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE INTO AREA THAT MIGHT HURT THEM. THATS WHY PROHPRT (LEVITE) AND KINGS ARE ADVISED TO ABSTAIN BECAUSE THEY ARE ROLE MODEL AND ARE LIKELY TO MESS UP LIKE LOT.

Thank you my bro. Statements like alcohol and cigarettes are not sin are irresponsible!

Logic Mind: JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF said don't do it.
are you confused or what?

You atheist sometimes get me laughing How can you deny HIS existence and yet bring HIM into your conversation when it is convenient to you? No wonder the Bible calls you FOOLS!

logicboy: Majority or 64% of Japanese clearly say that there is no God. Are you willing to call them fools? Is yur country half as good as theirs?

It does not matter how many people do not believe in GOD in the world. For all I care, it can be the whole of the United States and the Bible's definition for them will remain FOOLS!

toorich: thank you for reminding me that Elijah was taken to heaven, it will make it easier for you to understand. if the man didn't die and was taken to heaven alive, use your common sense, how did a full grown man enter the womb of Elizabeth to be born as an infant? did you read when the Angel appeared to Zechariah to tell him he would have a son with Elizabeth? you should read it up too. otherwise, if that account wasn't given us, you would have assumed that one day Elijah fell from the sky like terminator and starting calling himself John. same way you will say Jesus Christ is same person as Jonah since he said he would be in the grave for three days and night like Jonah was in the belly of the fish. can we now say Jesus is Jonah? Elijah and John are two different people, you should read that prophecy again and get reference from other scripture that talk about same topic, then you will see it better.

the scripture you gave have no correlation to Elijah or the prophet of baal. why wasn't moses, joshua, David, etc killed by the sword? because, like Elijah they put idolators to death too. .you got it twisted. God didn't kill Elijah in form of John the baptist.

My brother you are getting ridiculous. Are you telling me that the being is made up of only the body? I can tell you for a fact that GOD only know you by your soul that is why HE speaks to your soul. The fact that Elijah didn't die doesn't mean Elizabeth had to carry the old man in her belly. The spirit is what is important.

Before Abraham, JESUS was...does that mean Mary gave birth to a child thousands of years old? Please show some maturity in the discussion...I will be glad to also learn from you

[quote author=Okija_juju]SO was that John the baptist or Elijah that appeared on the mount during transfiguration!!

Ask him?![/quote]Why did the transfiguration happen when John had died? Why not on the wilderness where HE fasted for 40 days and nights?

toorich: hey dude, if you read from the beginning of that chapter, talks about the transfiguration where Elijah and Moses appeared with Jesus. after peter, james and john saw that, they asked because it was said that Elias will come before the messiah because to they were expecting to see "the real" elijah that was taken up to heaven come back to the earth. after Jesus' response they understood that the prophecy was figurative and not literal because in the 13th verse it says "then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the baptist". so my friend, it didn't say that John the baptist was literally Elijah but a figure of Elijah

Do you have a Bible? How can you argue that John was Elijah? This is the OT prophecy concerning his coming:

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Mal 4:5-6 (KJV)

Sweetnecta: This is the title of the thread that Jenwitemi termed a muslim thread, so much so that somebody from Nairaland organization moved it to the Muslim section.

I wonder what makes it a muslim thread from the title? Is God Almighty the exclusive property of Muslims, hence it can't be discussed in the general and so called Christian section?

Is the thread a muslim thread because it is started by a muslim to discuss God? Do the Christians not believe in God? Di the Jews or even the pagans? If Jenwitemi can determine where threads about God can go by his pushing any of you 4 persons that are connected to managing the boards, I now leave your organization for you and him.

To anyone who wishes to reach me, someday I will begin a blog or website to talk about God and anything that will benefit mankind an the progress of this earth that we are custodians, by the Mercy of God. In the main time, i can be reached through email; GALADIMALOU@AOL.COM.

yeye you do

logicboy: This is where all religions fail. Religious people will never have common ground. Religion is just as subjective as describing a story. Everyone has his or her interpretation of the bible as the bible is not clear, is not accurate and not precise. You can justify murder or discrimination with the bible. Some christians say God rested on a saturday, some say sunday. Catholics say purgatory, protestants say nay!

My favourite bible quotes as an athiest;

Mathew 5;22

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire


But my christian friends on Nairalan always tel me that I'm a fool..Irony?

Psalm 14

1[b]The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.[/b] They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth goo

What do you call someone from Nigeria? I don't think Nigerian is an insult to someone from Nigeria so in the same vain telling a fool that he is a fool is not an insult...at least that is what the Bible calls anyone who does not believe in GOD