₦airaland Forum

dipo+:
Lol. Park was relatively a nobody before coming to Arsenal. And irregardless of his record or how high you rate him, he is nowhere near the quality of Saha. You definitely didn't know Saha before he arrived at Everton.

Yes, the captain of Korea and one of the best forwards in Ligue 1 was a nobody, my friend go and lie down.



Full Time, seventh place! You can't make this stuff up!

Why do i always bench Krul when he scores big?

dipo+:
Arsenal second team: Fabianski; Jenkinson, Mertesacker, Djourou, Gibbs; Diaby, Ramsey, Rosicky; Chamberlain, Benayoun, Park;

Arsenal THIRD team: Almunia; Eastmond, Squilaci, Miquel, Yennaris; Couquelin, Henderson, Ozyakup; Arshavin, Henry, Chamakh;



What's the use of a second and third team of players like Chamark, Park, Squills, Ramshit, Almunia and Djorou.

Apparently, some supporters like to celebrate mediocrity like Wenger

You are a blunt tool. Who is celebrating?

If you can't explain how Livermore and co. are any better than Ramsey then your claim Spurs have "a squad we CANT compare ours with" is obviously idiotic.

I'm sure u didn't even know who Park was before Arsenal signed him so STFU!

Saha has been crap for how long now?

Xavi, Iniesta, Silva and the embarrassment of talent in Spain's midfield also lack the guile/technique/vision to put Torres one on one with the goalie/last defender. . . I laugh in braille!!!

debosky:
I never called him a 'top, top player' - I said there's merit in dipo+'s post in general. Tottenham are looking to shake things up while we appear to be standing still, that's the point here.

I was referring to Dipo's comment about Saha, Dawson, Defoe, Sandro etc being "top, top players" when all of them will struggle to make Arsenal's bench.

Ok - if we take that excuse for Spurs, what about Utd with more injuries than us? There's really no excuse for our abysmal performances.

United have arguably the deepest squad in the league, and the conversation has nothing to do with United, pay attention!

Good we're admitting the truth - we've messed up in certain areas is all I'm trying to say and Spurs is showing some intent while we're content to meander along.

No one woulda predicted Spurs will be well clear of Chelsea and Arsenal at this stage of the season, it's an anomaly. I'm not trying to take anything away from them, they deserve to be where they are now. What i can't stand is people making r[color=Black]e[/color]tarded comparisons with Spurs and Arsenal.

coogar:
saha is a top player and he can ease van persie's burden and the drop in quality would be minimal. . .in comparison to chamakh or when you guys still had bendtner. saha is french too and i don't know how wenger missed such a deal like that knowing how good he used to be with french players.
maybe le professor is now blind.

A top player with one league goal by February? *Jay-Z voice* Pardon me i had to laugh at that!

I'd take Park and Chamakh over Loius Haha everyday of the week.

they have had injuries too. lennon has been in and out. van der vaart is a permanent crock same as ledley king, dawson, gallas, etc.

Everybody has injuries. The fact is Tottenham have had better luck with injuries than Arsenal this season, but that's besides the point.

what you don't realise is tottenham actually have the strength in depth that mocks everything wenger has assembled in the last 5 years.
the only area they are a bit light is the attack department and they have quickly brought saha in to rectify that. saha would not play many games but whenever adebayor gets suspended or down with flu, saha would come in and do what's required.

Ho ho ho, which strength in depth?

Spurs' second team: Gomes; Kaboul, Nelson, Dawson, Rose; Kranjcar, Sandro, Huddlestone, Giovani; Defoe, Saha;

Arsenal second team: Fabianski; Jenkinson, Mertesacker, Djourou, Gibbs; Diaby, Ramsey, Rosicky; Chamberlain, Benayoun, Park;

Arsenal THIRD team: Almunia; Eastmond, Squilaci, Miquel, Yennaris; Couquelin, Henderson, Ozyakup; Arshavin, Henry, Chamakh;

There is CLEARLY more quality in Arsenal's second team and i couldn't even be bothered to imagine what Spurs' third team would look like.

chelsea offered £40m for modric last summer. that's a very tidy sum to rup up what he had on his contract and drive him to the bridge.
tottenham hold on to their top players more than any team in england and when they decide to sell, daniel levy(the street smart chartered accountant) takes no prisoners. he's the shrewdest club chairman in london.

And you are basing this on a solitary example? What about Carrick? Berbatov? Of course it would seem Tottenham hold on to their top players to you because compared to Arsenal they haven't really had any top players to attempt holding on to!

Una dey mind Debo?

He just feels obligated to talk up Welbeck persistently on these pages after categorically stating he's "miles ahead of Sturridge"

debosky:
Partly, but there is some substance to the comment, especially upfront. If you're scared of being stuck with too many players, do targeted loan deals not just the Henry for a few weeks type.

Saha has like one league goal since the birth of Christ and is the main reason Leighton Baines has just one assist this season, it's sad to hear an Arsenal fan describing him as a "top, top player" simply because he signed for a rival. If Saha had signed for Arsenal, the same ninjas woulda been hurling shurikens at Wenger.

In general the North London Scum have a more usable squad than we do - we are carrying way too many crocks/flops while they at least attempt to freshen things up and provide a bit more competition. While that's no guarantee of success, it shows an intent to improve while we appear to be stagnating. We'll know the truth in 4 months or so.

Well they've been a lot luckier with injuries. . . Compare how many minutes their key players have copped to Arsenal's and it says a lot. That's not to excuse the shyte storm Arsenal are in or take anything away from Spurs but it's true.

As for holding on to their top players, no one was really interested in them except Modric who still had a long contract. If he had a year left like Nasri they wouldn't have been able to keep him. Having said that the Cesc transfer fee/saga was a disgrace.

debosky:
Don't tell me the famous 'Wildcard active. Master-plan: loading. . . ' ish didn't come to fruition?

Master plan is in full swing nigguh!

Wanted to make one more trade but no biggie, i shall prevail!

dipo+:
Great move for Saha. If the injury demon would spare him, he is sure to score good number of goals at Totts. Tottenham doing so much to lay claim to a top four ticket while Arsenal doing little or nothing

Saha, vDv, Modric, Friedel, Parker, Bale, King, Dawson, Defoe, Dawson, Sandro are top, top players good enough to win. Same can't be said of the present arsenal crop

This is a load of emotional bull.

nateevs:
Wow! These boys dey play ball ooo.

You mean Sigurdsson and sons?

See Nonsense. . . I Can't update my friggin team.

OJORO Pt 2!!!!!

Great move for Ryo. He's definitely more than capable of competing with Petrov, Eagles etc for a regular spot. He should do well.

Welbeck is too poor technically to amount to anything more than a second-rate player. How does Berbatov put up with this crap from Fergie?

afrodoc:
now pls who hs squad news for our next match

Cantona has come out of retirement, he said he missed playing too much!

Lord_Reed:
Wow you must like button mashing and frenetic gameplay rather than depth. Tell me you are Street Fighter fanboy.

Actually, Street Fighter is one of the "deepest" fighters around, as well as being frenetic.

Also according to the early reviews of SCV Namco have sped up the gameplay significantly.

FBS:
Well y'all know JM is my favorite manager, but heck to bring him back to Chelsea? Not even sure of what to make of that. Madness. And seeing him at a rival club is even worse though we all know L'arse can't afford him. Simple as that. 

I coulda sworn Wenger is the highest paid manager in England. . .

dayokanu:
I didnt watch the game vs QPR but did Torres play?

Obviously he didnt score. So how many hours ago was Torres last goal for Chelsea?

At least Lampard whom we claim disturbs him has been injured for a while and Drogba is at the nations cup

Of course Torres played, why do you think he didn't score?

He has a better chance of scoring from the dugout than in the box!!!

In fact I heard he's been banging in goals in training

Grizz:
I tried playing 2, but it was impossible to get into the story when i didnt play one. They say 3 will do a better job with that so maybe i'll try it out.

OR! You could just start from 1 and not deny yourself the experience of 2(and 1!).

OR! Read the bloody synopsis!

adeshevy:
pls i just upgraded my ps3 to FW 4.00 and now i cant play cds
pls can anione help me jailbreak it pls contact me if u can or know smone who can
08027231202 or reply pls

Why can't you play CDs?

When Duduspace and I were clamoring for OX to be given a run in the side, Debo was yarning anti-sense.

Now in just the last two games(plus his few cameos early in the season), we've seen he's better a Walcott-Arshavin hybrid. . . What a player!!!

Why so gloomy? Madrid still have to come to Camp Nou, a win for Barca reduces the deficit to 4 points, which can be made up in as little as two games.

Having said that Real are obviously the favorites now cos apart from the lead they look more menacing away from home. Barca's injury list isn't helping matters either.

coogar:
you are a big olodo. you need to stop this bush man's way of debating.
iniesta or any of the other barca players can hit long passes accurately but that is not barcelona's dna.

First of all your premise is flawed because even in a Barca shirt, Xavi hits pin-point lofted mid - long-range passes(BECAUSE HE HAS THE ABILITY), you're simply trying to convince me Barca players never hit passes north of 35 yards to cover Iniesta's pale arse. Stop peddling myths nuccah!

Secondly even if Iniesta never hits long passes, we cannot just ASSUME he is as good as Cesc at it when we haven't seen him do it with Cesc's precision/consistency. That would be like assuming Szczesny is a better dribbler or finisher than Messi because goalies don't dribble/shoot much, which is utterly absurd.

because he doesn't have to.

Forwards/AMs don't have to score goals? Interesting perspective!

michael carrick did not score a league goal last season and the penultimate season. does that mean he's not better than any of the goal scoring midfielders in arsenal? does alex song have the intelligence of michael carrick?

Which Arsenal midfielder, Alex Song? Hehehe, Coogar is taking the piss. . . Alex Song may appear to be a run-of-the-mill tough tackling midfield enforcer to simpletons but more astute observers know Song is so much more than that. Just look at his attacking play since Wenger gave him more license to get forward last season. Look at his assist for Henry's goal, the beautiful lob that led to RvP's volley vs Everton or his other mesmeric assist for RvP's header against Dortmund. In short, Song Vs Carrick is an argument for the insane and i refuse to get pulled into it.

like i have told you, it depends on who the gaffer has made the outlet to launch attacks.
dani alves is the 2nd highest goal maker in barcelona, by your idiotic logic. . . .alves is better than xavi, iniesta, pedro, etc.

and of course, leighton baine is better than cahill.

Is your brain in cyclic redundancy or how many times do i have to answer the same stupidass question? Making it bold didn't work the last time so lemme increase the font-size and cross my fingers:

Leighton Baines(for obvious reasons) and Charlie Adam(what are his numbers in the last 3-5 years?) are [size=14pt]severely lacking in other areas of the game(where Cesc comfortably matches/betters Iniesta), meaning even if they out-assist him, he's still way ahead of them based on other areas of the game.[/size]

mascherano can't get a game in barcelona. he's a surplus to requirements.
to actually think a young sergio busquets has displaced mascherano(premier league's best defensive midfielder) and yaya toure(the current best defensive midfielder in england) says a lot. puyol will always be puyol. mascherano cannot hold a candle to him unless when puyol is not fit.

Hot air. . . How does any of this explain the fact Mascherano has been outperforming Puyol(even in full match-fitness) in defence since last season?

they don't have to score league goals. they are not in the team to stay on top of the statistics charts

Iniesta may actually have a small case of being excused, but Pedro? What does he "add to Barca" besides making runs/scoring goals? Oh i forgot, he's an expert at cheating and getting players sent off!   Soon you'll tell me he's also a better passer than Cesc.

iniesta and pedro make the team because they fit into barcelona's mode of playing.

Pedro has been average this season and the last time i checked Cesc was benching him.

cesc fabregas does not fit into it.

Hmmm, one of the finest La Masia graduates in history "doesn't fit" into Barca's system? 20 starts, 14 goals, 12 assists. . . I wonder what the numbers would look like when he actually "fits" into it!

fabregas is not a one-touch passer - that part of his game is lacking and this is why he has no fixed position.

Fabregas is not a one touch passer - that part of his game is lacking - Coogar 2012

he has to fill in the roles of injured players(david villa or pedro).

See above.

if cesc is that brilliant, why can't he displace iniesta, xavi or even busquets in the midfield?

Busquets fulfills a different role, the only comparison i made with Xavi was saying he's a better passer than Cesc. I believe i also said this:

Iniesta can only lay claim to being "arguably" better than Cesc in the current Barcelona setup/style, perhaps because he has a better understanding with Xavi having played with him longer(not an indictment of quality). Any other team/system, Cesc is a (in your own words) "more productive", and superior midfielder.

surely, guardiola and other decision makers in barcelona must have seen cesc's statistics and yet he cannot displace the players with a solitary goal between them.

See above.

guardiola has messi and dani alves to get the stats, he does not need iniesta/pedro to do that.

Conveniently leaving out Cesc(the most productive player after Messi). With Villa, Pedro and Iniesta misfiring, Pep would be thanking Jah he signed Cesc otherwise Barca woulda been relying on Messi to dribble 3 defenders, pass to himself, and score the goal all the time!!

scoring and out-assisting is not the theme of the barcelona squad.
winning games and touching the ball more than their opponents is their aim.

You know of a team that wins league games without scoring goals? I didn't know FIFA have implemented their "70% possession = -1 on the opponent's scoresheet" rule!!!

mr ritchboy, guardiola does not send cesc's 400 goals/1000 assists per month.
it means shyte. in arsenal and england in general, those stats mean something. . . . .in guardiola's barcelona, it means shyte.

Yea, I'm sure Messi is considered the best player in Guardiola's Barca / the world for his good looks, not for his 50+ goals and 20+ assists.

messi gets the lion share of the goals/assists. . . .followed by dani alves. by your logic, alves is better than xavi.

I have proved this line of argument to be idiotic a million times, but for the record Cesc and Xavi get more goals/assists than Alves in case you can't count!

now you get the drift. . . .
the manager wants those safe passes. . . .high risk passes lose barcelona the ball.
guardiola has told you times without number that without the ball, they cannot function very well. . . .so cesc is like a deer caught in the headlights.
he's clueless.

If the high risk pass has even a 20% chance of creating a clear goal scoring opportunity, then it's more than worth the risk. Stop talking like you have Pep's playbook in pdf on your hard-drive when in reality you just plagiarize, misinterpret, and remix everything you read on zonal-marking.com!

barcelona have been playing with no risks before cesc joined them. . . . .their football has no risk at all.
it's the reason they have been so successful. guardiola has stated that they play short passes because when they lose it, it's easier for them to hunt in packs and get the ball back asap.

in Snooker you have something called percentage play, you assess your options, and then you make a decision based on your assessment. you might decide that you have a 10% chance of making a pot, but you know you will leave the cue ball safe, so you take that shot on, rather than the 50% chance of a pot where the cueball will leave your opponent in amongst the balls.

barcelona play this game every time. if they don't think there is a very good chance of scoring, they will pass the ball back and start the attacking again, their front men will all change positions and try to pull the opposition out of shape, if that doesn't work, they will do it again. there is very little risk involved.

even if you watch closely, messi's mazy runs are calculated to perfection. his team mates identify the area he is most likely to come unstuck and they will get to that area and close down all angles. that way, if he is tackled, they are usually the first to pick up the ball if it rebounds into open play, or the tacklers options are limited. likewise for a throughball, the player the throughball is intended for will be the only one trying to peel off the defenders shoulder, while his team mates drop back to cut out the angles or steal the ball if it is intercepted.

I don't recall disputing any of this, or at least the parts i had time to read

EDIT: Barcelona's game has "no risk AT ALL"? Somehow I'm not surprised considering the fact you think 99% of Torres' problem is Chelsea's midfield, lolololol

assists + goals = shoulders above every other player in the world
this simple way of analysing football must make you a genius.

I was referring to assists alone and not goals or overall ability. Are you so poor you can't pay attention?

even though he's shyte during games.

Shyte during which games? The soccer app on your iPad?

this logic also tells me ryan giggs played better than michael carrick at the emirates even though we learnt this
goal + assist stats cannot be the only parameter to rate a player. other factors come into play which statistics cannot record.

Ok this time let me say it slowly. Reeeeaaaaaddddddd thhhhheeeeeeeeeeee laaaaaaarrrgggeeee teexxxxxxxttttttttttt abbbooooovveeee.

in technical aspects and football intelligence alone, iniesta is miles above cesc.

If "technical aspects" is code for dribbling, then sure. Cesc has a better football brain than Iniesta, this is why he lags behind Cesc in output despite having more ability.


Wow i just realized how long this has become. OK you win!

^^ Pedantry. . . Should a Barcelona AM be without a league goal at this stage of the season?

coogar:
if you think iniesta does not have the ability to ping 60 yard pass, then you are on your own.

Even Johnny Evans pings accurate 60 yard passes, the question is how well/consistently.

yet, it was iniesta that scored in the final of the world cup. what about that goal suggests he cannot get into dangerous positions and finish exquisitely.
see how he aimed the shot across the goal unlike most strikers who would have gone near post. when iniesta gets into those positions where he's ahead of others, he scores.

Selective amnesia. . . Iniesta has never registered double digits after 8 years as a Barca regular. In fact just two seasons ago he managed just ONE GOAL IN 42 APPEARANCES in all competitions!

they don't need his productivity.
the magnificent seven in barcelona are: puyol, pique, xavi, iniesta, messi, busquets and pedro
barcelona have not lost a game in which those seven players started. fabregas, sanchez, alves, etc are surplus to requirements.

The same Puyol that is being outperformed by Mascherano(a midfielder) in defense? The same Pedro that has been struggling for a while and is now mostly an impact-sub?

it's barcelona carrying fabregas along, not the other way round. they were doing extremely well before his arrival.
like i have said, they don't need his productivity.

When Iniesta and Pedro have a solitary league goal between them all season, they obviously need his productivity!!!

why should it be derailed.
because of assists and goals. . . . .you are saying cesc is better than iniesta.
because of assists and goals. . . . .why isn't nani better than xavi. why isn't david silva better than xavi.

Nuccah can't you read? -

Leighton Baines(for obvious reasons) and Charlie Adam(what are his numbers in the last 3-5 years?) are severely lacking in other areas of the game(where Cesc comfortably matches/betters Iniesta), meaning even if they out-assist him, he's still way ahead of them based on other areas of the game.

on what basis has silva been better than iniesta?

He has played better and more productive football, what other basis is there?

the way different teams play is the pointer. it depends on who the manager has chosen to be the outlet to produce goals, assists and etc.

silva is the most creative player in man city. it makes sense that he's racked that many assists.
if he joins barca, he would be vastly insignificant with xavi, messi, etc eating the lion share of his statistics.
to open your mouth on a public forum and say silva is better than iniesta based on the leadership roles in their respective teams is a tad disgraceful.

"WHY" Silva has been better is irrelevant, the fact is he has. Whether Iniesta has been rubbish because Pep chose to play him at center-back or in goal is his own cup of zobo. Silva will still outscore and out-assist Iniesta if he replaced him in the Barca squad today because he has the ability to do so while Iniesta has been proven not to over the years; irrespective of the presence of Messi or Xavi. Messi and Xavi haven't stopped Cesc from copping 14 goals and 12 assists despite starting only 20 games. Men lie, cougars lie, numbers don't!

if they are more liable to interception/misplacement, how then is fabregas the better passer of the ball than iniesta?

What does the success-rate of through balls have to do with Cesc Fabregas? If Jesus played football he'll also have better accuracy with simpler passes to slightly/un-marked teammates than through-balls which have to beat 1-3 defenders and possibly a covering goalie not to mention the recipient anticipating the direction/trajectory of the pass.

iniesta times his passes and if there's any single doubt his passes would be intercepted, he then tries an alternative route.

Good point. In the same situation Iniesta is liable to play a safe pass that amounts to nothing 99% of the time and drugs-up his pass accuracy, Cesc would spot a run and try and pick out a key-pass. If he tries it 6 times, 2 may be intercepted, 2 may be misplaced, and 2 will create genuine scoring opportunities, one of which will be converted. No risk no reward.

This is precisely why Cesc is head and shoulders above every other player in the world with over 100 assists in the last 5 and a half seasons alone and Iniesta can't hold a candle to it!

coogar:
cesc is more direct. . . . . .
sometimes he hoofs it from his own half of the pitch to a striker through on goal. . . .
iniesta's game is not like that. . . . .barca's play does not work like that.

"Hoof" suggests a hopeful ball aimed at a target man, Cesc doesn't do that, stop lying. A precise 60 yard pass cannot be called "hoofing" based on distance alone. Iniesta doesn't do it as well or as often as Cesc because he simply doesn't have the ability.

he is not even interested getting into those scoring positions. . . . .he's the orchestrator, the string puller

Again, he is "not interested" in getting into those positions because he doesn't have the ability to do so. Cesc also acts as an orchestrator/string-puller(blimey, the whole attacking 5/6 at Barca chip in), it doesn't stop him from getting into the box and scoring goals.

barcelona were very fine before cesc's arrival. fabregas has added nothing to barcelona. . . .has he?

Barcelona were also fine before Villa/Sanchez/Pedro etc arrived, how does it affect the price of alomo? Cesc is Barca's most productive player after Messi with 14 goals and 12 assists from just 20 starts:

Johnpaul88:
I like Iniesta a lot and his contributions to barca's style of play. But i do not know why a clué will downplay the contributions of Cesc on the alter of not holding ball under pressure, misplacing passes etc ignoring that this same Cesc has racked up 14 goals and 12 assists including important goals compared to Iniesta's 4 goals and 5 assists. This is what wins u matches not only short passes. Iniesta's injury this season have exercabated also. If not for Cesc helping Messi in scoring, i wonder what would have become of us this season.

What has Iniesta added this season?

xavi is really good but last season, he had just 10 assists in all competitions to iniesta's 9.
dani alves on the other hand had 18 assists, messi had 21. by your own logic, dani alves is a better player than the midfield maestros or dani alves is more direct than them?

answers on a postcard, please!

we can also conclude nani played better than xavi last season cos nani copped 20 assists, isn't it?

I have already told you why this train of though should be derailed:

Leighton Baines(for obvious reasons) and Charlie Adam(what are his numbers in the last 3-5 years?) are severely lacking in other areas of the game(where Cesc comfortably matches/betters Iniesta), meaning even if they out-assist him, he's still way ahead of them based on other areas of the game.

this season, messi's got 13 assists, alves has got 10 assists, xavi(7), cesc(5), iniesta(4)
so how's cesc fabregas better?

Since you've conveniently limited your stats to league games, Cesc has 9 goals and 5 assists in La Liga, Iniesta has 4 assists and NOT A SINGLE GOAL by February!!! LOLOL

david silva has played better than iniesta this season? because of the gra-gra way city plays?

Of course Silva has been better than Iniesta this season, no question!

iniesta vs fabregas
https://performance.fourfourtwo.com/contentimages/li-Fab%20three.jpg?maxwidth=430

https://performance.fourfourtwo.com/contentimages/li-4.%20Action%20areas.jpg?maxwidth=430

These figures were collected over a short period of time and are limited to league games. In any case the first two thirds are negligible. In the final third, Cesc attempts more final-balls(which are like 3 or 4 times more liable to interception/misplacement) than Iniesta, try again.

This would be scandalous if successfully implemented.

I'm in love with BAYONETTA!

coogar:
this is like comparing alexander hleb to ashley young or tony valencia. the latter is a more technical player. . . the latter are direct players. they pass, they cross to the goal scorer. . . .they just hoof a cross and hope to the heavens someone gets to the end of the cross. . .and the assist belongs to them.

iniesta on the other hand is not hoofing and hoping. he's worked out the angle of the pass, the weight of the ball.
precision and accuracy of the triangles and unless the recipient of his pass is a one-legged man, the task of scoring or making an assist to the scorer has been made very easy.

This is a terrible analogy because (A) Cesc is nowhere near as direct as the likes of Valencia. (B) Cesc's passing isn't just more precise than Iniesta's, it's more precise than just about every other player in the world. Off the top of my head, only Xabi Alonso and Xavi Hernandez can lay claim to being more precise passers than Cesc in world football, anyone else is on par at best. If Iniesta and Cesc were to play the "hit the tree" game(Scholes), there's on one possible winner.

You talk about Iniesta's indirectness like it's a good thing, it isn't. Cesc's decision making in the final third is unrivaled, Iniesta obviously needs to improve his cos it's criminal for a Barcelona forward/AM to be averaging 5 goals and 5 assists per season when he clearly has the ability to do much better.

look at xavi's assists, there's no ingenuity about most of them. . . .the complex task has been completed by iniesta before feeding xavi - take a look at the david silva goal in the youtube clip i posted. . . . . .my grandmother would have completed xavi's contribution and my dog would have scored the goal.

Hehehe, so now you've resorted to playing down Xavi's contribution just to talk up Iniesta? OK!!!

if there's a stat for assist of the assist or if there's a stat for the killer pass. . . .then you would appreciate what iniesta does.

I'm sure Cesc also assists uncountable assists and drops a billion killer passes, if there was a stat for that he'll still be comfortably ahead of Iniesta. Except he doesn't use it as an excuse for lacking a final ball.

on the argument you are making. . . . .charlie adam/leighton baines/david silva are better than iniesta!

Leighton Baines(for obvious reasons) and Charlie Adam(what are his numbers in the last 3-5 years?) are severely lacking in other areas of the game(where Cesc comfortably matches/betters Iniesta), meaning even if they out-assist him, he's still way ahead of them based on other areas of the game.

David Silva has played better than Iniesta this season and will be considered a better player if he can maintain his current level for a longer period of time.

coogar:
iniesta is a better passer of the ball. . . iniesta's the better dribbler. . . . iniesta has got the better vision and he's thrice the player fabregas is.
it was andreas iniesta guardiola was referring to @ la masia when he remarked "this kid would retire us all".
iniesta's close control is top drawer. . . .can fabregas hold possession under pressure? what about one-touch passing?

abeg, i don't know any midfielder in barca cesc can hold any candle to.
not thiago, not xavi, not iniesta and not sergio busquets. . . . .of course, cesc's better than keita.
but the spaniards are heads and shoulders better than cesc technically. . . . .goal scoring, goal making, etc are irrelevant - iniesta is not governed by those.
his style is not direct. . . . . . .until it's absolutely necessary for him to shoot at goal.

you make me laugh with your remark that iniesta has no end product!!!
if he doesn't have an end product to his game, who does?
the number of killer passes he's supplied in his life-time is the reason cesc cannot get into the team: spain/barcelona.

PEPEPE, PENAREETEE!!! I'm sure In Coogar Town, dribbling past 3 players in your own half is more important than scoring and creating goals, but not in the real world son! While cats like Iniesta and Modric will try to beat oncoming markers with some flamboyant, easy-on-the-eye, youtube.com skill, more intelligent midfielders like Cesc and Xavi would pick out an equally effective but simple pass to a teammate or use a pirouette {(c) La Masia} to create the angle for the pass if necessary.

Cesc movement off the ball alone is stuff of legend. This is why you see him in more one on one situations than most strikers.

Of course Iniesta (compared to Cesc) has no end product. If i bring out their stats over the last 5-7 years, you'll weep for the pale midget!

coogar:
ritchboy, stop blaspheming. . . . .iniesta is a better player than fabregas in every department of the round leather game.

iniesta is the better dribbler and his high reluctance to give the ball away is miles better than cesc fabregas who often loses possession under pressure.
he's so dead on the ball, runs on his forefeet and his balance is as supreme as messi's - light of touch!
without his last minute goal against chelsea in 2009, i wonder what barca would have been under guardiola - they have not looked back since that night.

FAFAFA, FAWOULLL! On the contrary, Cesc murks Iniesta in almost every department of the round leather game; Whether it's passing, crossing, dead-balls, off-the-ball running, finishing, goal-scoring, goal-making, even heading, name it!

The only conspicuous skill Iniesta has over Cesc is dribbling(one of the less relevant attributes of central-midfielders), and it's not like Cesc can't beat his marker. We call midfielders who dribble too much without end product "Youtube players", and since you've predictably resorted to posting Youtube videos:

[flash=640,390]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afW7520EXgA[/flash]

Luka Modric and Abou Diaby woulda been the next best CMs in the world if dribbling was a requisite of being a top CM!

medjai:
Yes Cesc is more productive but he isn't a better passer or player than Iniesta.

Iniesta's passing can only match Cesc's at short distances, anything north of 20 yards and Iniesta is an apprentice compared to Cesc, that's why I used the term "range" initially.

Iniesta can only lay claim to being "arguably" better than Cesc in the current Barcelona setup/style, perhaps because he has a better understanding with Xavi having played with him longer(not an indictment of quality). Cesc is (in your own words) "more productive", and in any other team/system a superior midfielder.

Of course, Cesc's gonna have racks on racks on racks of assits playing at Arsenal. Everything went through him. Corners, freekicks, everything was Cesc.

Nonsense. Cesc didn't take "everything" at Arsenal. RVP (when fit) dominates all set-pieces from the right side while Cesc rotated with the likes of Arshavin, Rosicky and Nasri from the left. Can you tell us why this season Cesc has copped 12 assists already and Iniesta has just 4(3 times less than Cesc)? Maybe "everything goes through him" at Barca as well! I laugh in iCantstoplaughing

Iniesta may not cop that much assits or goals but he's damn good. The best AM in the world. His contributions are beyond what stats can show. And as per stats, he had the most assits in the CL last season.

Selective memory. . . In the spirit of isolating seasons/competitions, kindly tell us why Iniesta is yet to score a single goal in La Liga this season when it's already past the winter-break!

^^ CoD has been an annual affair since 2005/6ish, Cod 9 is due later this year!!! I thunk CoD games utilized the ID Tech 3 engine(Quake3) and it's variants. . .

I totally agree they should try something completely new from scratch cos even Black Ops and WaW felt a little too MWesque. Can't really blame them for sticking with the proven formula, though it's getting a little too "didn't I play this last year" for the masses. I don't think they'll continue making MW titles though, that would just take the series backwards. Let's see what they serve up come November.