₦airaland Forum

kabe1:
No man.

@Rka2 could help out.

I can't per say. What my assumption is based on is my entry on the other thread in December. The CNS will not give out a model of a frigate to a dignitary if there isn't a vested interest. See link below.

https://www.nairaland.com/2239266/battle-field-discussion-picture-video/1060

A Super Tucano will use mostly the APKWS (Advanced precision kill weapons system) which is basically a guided system attached to a rocket, unguided rockets and guided bombs not expensive missiles. Then there are the guns for straffing.

Odunayaw:
I've not gone to that thread in about 3years. He dares not run mouth here, lies don't stick here

I mistakenly went there and saw his post. I just shook my head.

kabe1:
"I'm guessing you didn't know also?".


Well............. Now, you know!!!

You know I was pulling your leg, right?

kabe1:
Public Service announcement!!!


In light of recent events, I'm forced to make this public announcement.

This thread is not defence headquarters, it is not the office of the NSA and it's definitely not the President's office.

I am not the army chief or the chief of defence staff, neither am I the President.

So please don't ask me questions or refer to me like I'm the top brass.

Thank you all for your anticipated cooperation!!

What? You are not top brass? I am shocked

NuclearBomber:
Nigeria bought the highest spec of the VT-4 tanks. Ours is the most expensive at over $5million each because it is Full options with added enhancements, specified by our armoured experts. I can confirm that ours is Far higher that the Pakistani version. Don't ask my source, just take what I said. The choice and specifications was done by the Ministry of Defence; so this is not a crap army procurement. There are loads of more contracts that are not even public, including the Future Nigerian Frigate program, that is top notch.

I knew I read or watched somewhere about the tanks being enhanced to our specification, but can't find it. I said on the other thread a few weeks ago about a Frigate in the works, but people didn't take me seriously, so thank you

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Odunayaw:
Your contributions from Ghana are highly appreciated. Please bring them in continually

But he get mouth in the Strongest African Military thread post he made a few days ago.

kabe1:
I used to visit the military threads as a guest back then, I must admit I didn't really know much about the military, it was these threads that taught me a lot. I really miss some of the very old posters.

The old guards I remember still posting are you, Rka2 (Legend), Jln115 and Bidexii.

So much fun back then.

Thanks for the mention. Back then, I was in my previous guise as Rka1

komekn:
Quite surprisingly irrespective of our different approaches you have at no time called me a LIAR.

That means that I am at fault alleging in my presumption that have you called me a liar and therefore I have to eat humble pie and apologize unreservedly.

No hard feelings, apology accepted. We were just approaching the topic from different angles.

ocelot2006:
What a waste. Is there no way of us reactivating these beautiful birds? Same question goes for the BO-105 helicopters in storage in PHC.

For the Jaguars, no, unless you end up replacing practically every part. Better to have new aircraft. For the BO-105, I don't know what state they are in, but I suspect much the same as the Jags.

komekn:
just that they were stored out in the open without any protection from the elements and by the time the Indians inspected them, they were not fit for purpose.

Your entire write up was set up to underpin the proposition that these 16 Sepecat Jaguars were essentially rust buckets and not worth a carrot, that was the substance of your position.

My position was that two Bae Systems and the Indian Hindustan were prepared to pay about what we paid to procure them so you are talking at least
that is going to go into near or above $65 million speculatively. That means there was considerable life left in the air frames. Without being racially prejudiced stingy Indian man will not pay $10 million for scrap metal.

Back to the other claim , i simply do not use vitriolic diction in the first instance and you called me a LIAR when i said the complete contract package cost for the A29's was $600 million. I presented a USA government published and gazetted document to back up my claim. Or is the USA govt. telling lies .

Nonetheless, its not particularly relevant now.

I find it unforgivable that we let those Jags rot, had a chance to refurbish but did not , then we didnt sell them when there was clear offers to purchase, WHY, WHY, which way Nigeria. So effectively we lost maybe $100 million in possible revenue , that is UNFORGIVABLE.

This is interesting. Kindly show me where I called you a liar in all our exchanges regarding above highlighted statement. I have never engaged you in the Tucano discussion. I think you are confusing me with somebody else.

I totally agree with the rest of your write-up about it being a waste to let the Jags rot.

Edit: At least one Jaguar jet was lost as a result of a crash in 1985.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/138072

blacKDalia:
That should have been the case but looking at a unit cost as compared to that of Ghana shows that ours is expensive. At the same time @rka2' explanation is understandable. Ehm... Ehm... Ehm, clears throat and in a low voice, but you ma know say man must chop

You are funny sha , but seriously, it is more difficult these days due to Gov to Gov contract. Maybe in the contract itself, there maybe a little leeway to make a bigger profit.

blacKDalia:
If true that Ghana bought 9 for 88million dollars then 12 should translate to 117.3 million dollars. There is something about this Tucano deal that's fishy, more so the delivery date.

I think it may have something to do with the variant you buy and modifications you request. A unit cost is between $9-$18m plus whatever modifications. Nigeria likes to have modifications when they buy new equipment to suit their requirements. Even the VT4 tanks we bought from China they said NA requested modifications to suit our theatre.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano

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komekn:
It seems that you need to revert back to basics because you do not seem to understand what the word disinformation means. FYI, false information which is intended to mislead

Your approach is to discredit but not with anything but your own opinion no facts, just your own self birthed deduction. Your opinion is not fact its just a view.

I used Beeeagle to underpin my view and mentioned him being a prolific blogger at the time, is that disinformation Unless you are calling him a liar too.

I quote him, it emerged that a Jaguar B TRAINER variant (NAF 703) had flown for only 150 hours 54 minutes since it was manufactured in December 1984. It had its 100 hours inspection on the 10th day of February, 1986. It suggests that the crated fleet of Jaguar jets is almost brand-new still. Where is the disinformation

We have very clear information to a good degree technical from which a substantive non-opinionated deduction can be made, that there was considerable life left in these air frames, that is a very plausible deduction to be made. We are informed there were two separate bids for the planes by both India's Hindustan and the now BAE systems. That says there was value in theses Air-frames. Personally when i think of the European build quality i would prefer a renewed 16 Sepecat Jaguar, new engines, avionics, weapon systems, etc for a $100 million. In comparison to the 12 Chinese copy cat Mig 21's that we bought for £250 million.

That is my opinion it is not fact , it is not disinformation or misrepresentation it is my approach to best value, you can agree or disagree thats your choice.

With regards to your pictures it says nothing or proves anything, we don't know when those pics were taken , for how long the Jags remained in the open and when they left the hangar and where they currently are right now. Your pictures without a time frame explanation are misleading and more of disinformation.

From my own sources at the time my understanding was that they were in the HANGERS just before the inspection, what happened afterwards I really do not know. I could easily find out if I wanted too.

So if you disagree with me its your choice but please stop trying to harangue, name calling and cause unnecessary ill tempered arguments, there is simply no need. I don't know what you mean by "You talk as if you are an authority"

You are the one accusing me of disinformation and saying I just make things up and you have the temerity to accuse me of name calling?

I still follow Beegs on Twitter and I can never call him a liar. We are only as good as our sources sometimes. So they had an inspection in 1986, how does that affect what I was saying about storage outside? Did I disagree they were inspected? You think I don't have sources as well to back up they were abandoned outside?

Quit pretending to be an injured party. So where is the disinformation?

Maybe these photos will help. Dated May 3rd 2007. See llink to photos. There is also a photo below of storage in a hanger, not crated or dated.

http://wpalette.com/en/pictures/56700

The jets were largely abandoned in the late 80s. They tried to sell them in 2011.

The small Nigerian Jaguar force did not operate for long; despite being the most heavily populated country in Africa and rich in natural resources including oil, chaotic government with repeated coups and corruption on a massive scale coupled with sanctions by other nations left the country's Air Force unable to afford a safe level of operations, or to keep maintenance contracts going. By early 1990 they had flown their last Jaguar, with some not having undergone inspections since 1986. The 14 (or 16?) surviving airframes have been basically derelict ever since and have long since passed the point of being flyable without a huge investment. Several attempts have been made to sell them since, most recently in October 2011 when they were apparently put up for auction. The level of corruption endemic in the country can hardly make a purchase attempt an attractive proposition!

https://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/jaguar/history.php

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marvin906:
can these jags be activated back

Not unless you replace practically every part of the aircraft. Might as well buy new aircraft.

kabe1:
He is the best at passing disinformation. Making phony baseless claims with authority.

Anytime I want to have a good laugh, I come down here to look at some of his disjointed responses to posts.

Very amusing guy.

What can I say? I just tire for these people.

komekn:
You make a proposition from thin air that in the first instance that is disinformation, it seems you self birth ideas and notions and pass them off as facts and knowledge based probability.

The Sepecat Jags were kept in Makurdi, and with regards to the 1985 Faild coup you should read up on the history and composition of the NAF at that time and the tribal dynamics that created paranoia among the IBB and Abacha associates in the military.

Below an excerpt from Beeeagle one time prolific blogger on the subject.

Sometime in 2007 when these jets were put on display by the NAF for prospective buyers to inspect, it emerged that a Jaguar B TRAINER variant (NAF 703) had flown for only 150 hours 54 minutes since it was manufactured in December 1984. It had its 100 hours inspection on the 10th day of February, 1986. It suggests that the crated fleet of Jaguar jets is almost brand-new still.

When NAF offered the Jaguar for sale, BAe officials came for inspection/evaluation and among others conditions; they said that BAe will consider purchasing the planes at the purchase price or lower value than what Nigeria spent on the acquisition of the said jets.

https://beegeagle./2012/08/22/how-nigeria-lost-the-use-of-her-jaguar-jets-without-most-of-them-logging-up-200-hours/

You talk as if you are an authority. I was an active participant on Beeg's blog. It is a blog and not gospel. I didn't tell you they weren't stored at Makurdi Air Base just that they were stored out in the open without any protection from the elements and by the time the Indians inspected them, they were not fit for purpose. Do these photos look like they were crated?

Talking of disinformation, I can not think of anybody else so adept at it on this forum.

nemesis8u:
I will again disagree .

Problem was with the pricing , the price hal quoted was deemed too high by naf. Only the fuselage will be old rest everything brand new , including engines.

I had hal statement in a pdf on it . It was part of their annual report. But that was long time back.

During that period Hal manufactured the complete aircraft all by itself . So spares from uk don't come into play.

Anyways. Let's agree to disagree.

Means I was right as practically everything on the aircraft was beyond economic repair because of how they stored it. Replacing practically every component is equivalent to buying new aircraft which was not what the NAF heirachy wanted. So, they couldn't assist.

kikuyu1:
After sitting on the apron in the hot humid marine environment of Lagos for at least a decade? Link?

The Jaguars were beyond economic repair when examined because they were left in the open to rot without any protection. Imagine the state of the airframe and the avionics etc. Nothing the Indians could do.

Sizzorkay:
I'm saying y'all should stop speculating, fact is, you don't know. Unless you get direct line to the General

List the number of people on this forum that know things for a fact from video clips and photos that have been posted. Of all the nonsense speculation that has been happening for the last few pages, it is one concerning a General and his rifle that got your goat?

Sizzorkay:
And where did you get this info from? That the guy next to him was his aide and was holding his rifle?
Y'all have amazing skill on here, see a tiny video, and every expert come out and tell us all what it was all about and what was happening.
Or Buratai in a trench with others, looking at a certain direction, from one picture, everyone seem to know what they were looking at . Funny enough in the NTA video i just saw a few minutes ago, Buratai was in that same trench, and he was having a conversation , in a relaxed pose

Where did you get your info that he isn't. The soldier was just following the General and carrying a rifle because he felt like it? Please give me a break.

Nigerian Army are doing fine thank you. You wan come still our thunder last minute huh!

SerikinGamo:
What baffles me each time I go through this thread and the other is the audacity with which people who have zero idea or knowledge about military operations give their ill thought out, half baked opinions about military issues.

I can never understand how people who can’t even say properly what a rifle is, think they know better than a commander, on the field, with several years of experience in combat, all from a very short video shot from one angle.

How do you even do this?

They think it is Hollywood when bullets fired by the enemy 'miss road' but the ones fired by 'the goodies' are always on target. All you have to do is somersault a few times while releasing deadly fire.

slimthugchimee2:
And at the end, he was right

I didn't expect anything less . As soon as they see a good story, they come and muddy the water

https://twitter.com/i/status/1251927285952737280

In this clip, you can see the commander better with his aide hold ing his rifle. Troops are lining up behind Armoured vehicles. Our keyboard commandos think war is like computer games. SMH

Tobiloba2407:
Nothing in the pictures gives credence, that 105 BHT were killed....not in the number of bodies, number of vehicles destroyed or the amount of weapons recovered. Seems the number was inflated.

That's why I said read it again. It said 10 were killed and one technical vehicle with AA mounted along with what was displayed, hence the pictures you saw. They then said when they went on further clearance operations, they came across more bodies bringing the total to over 100. They didn't show any of those bodies. It is known that on withdrawal, BH/ISWAP normally try to take their dead and weapons with them. They obviously took the weapons but abandoned the bodies.

Nobody said the Chadian story didn't mount up when they said they killed over a thousand BH with no pictures. All that was circulated in the media by mischievous people (not by Chad) were 2015 images and caches, even the Chadian Embassy said so.

Just watch and see how gradually this positive news will be turned negative.

Tobiloba2407:
Nigerian military has started again....the pictures they are showing isn't giving credibility to their story, they can do much better....

Why don't you read the "story" again and come back and say what doesn't add up.

LTGEN:
Please don’t respond to him.
It is not worth the effort.
Much respect for your work.

bidexiii:
This dude wants attention, don’t waste your time giving him ?

I know I should know better, but sometimes I am just sad that people can't see when there is a concerted effort against their country and they go along with it for political reasons.

I have supported the Nigerian military right from my teenage years through all sorts of Goverments, whether military or political (regardless of political party).

Nigerian society is not perfect. Why should the military be any different. These same people will then shift their allegiances once their political leader is in power even though things might be worse.

Even if you buy the .latest F15s or IFVs going, they will find fault. SMH.