₦airaland Forum

We've being doing that - You can easily use consumption and expenditure data.

68816419:
SO HOW DO WE NOW CHECK "correctness or validity of GDP "?

And do you even know how to read the graph . Our forex are non-issues. They can swing btw say 8-10 - with CBK buying or selling them - we have more than enough and it's never been an issues. This is not nigeria where it swing wildly with OIRO.
Let me help you with 10yr graph
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/kenya-foreign-exchange-reserves.png?s=kenyaforexcres&v=201804231002v&d1=20080101&d2=20181231

And Nigeria
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/nigeria-foreign-exchange-reserves.png?s=nigeriaforexcres&v=201803312134v&d1=20080101&d2=20181231

As you can see like blackouts - forex is non-issue in kenya - nobody has heard since 1992 that one ran short of forex or couldn't buy it or there was black market to buy forex.

68816419:
HAHAHAHAH THIS GRAPH WAS PROVIDED BY YOUR "KENYA CENTRAL BANK"...SO WOULD YOU ALSO DISPUTE IT CREDIBILITY ?

WB or IMF do not calculate GDP. They adopt whatever is calculated by any country including Nigeria or Russia or North Korea. Obviously there are so many ways one can check the correctness or validity of GDP - WB or IMF are not in that business - because it's politically - but when Nigeria tries to borrow loan from IMF or WB - they will get as much as they can service from their very little revenue.

jason14:
Mr rsvgp this is Nigeria's GDP calculated by world bank


https://www.google.com/url?q=https://tradingeconomics.com/nigeria/gdp&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjLiuHnmNjaAhVJb1AKHVtoC1MQFjAEegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw1SywPHH-Gaba9SHXO92LmP


....JASON THE NAIJA DUDE

Facts are very stubborn.
1) Our forex are not declining..rather they are the highest they ever have been ..at nearly 9 billion dollars. Our import bill is around 12-18 B dollars..so we have more than enough to cover us...we only need 6-7B dollars forex.
2) Our Kshs is now gaining against the dollar...
3) There is very little you can do with 2-3B dollars in a town of 10-20M folks. Very little. You're talking removing 3 round abouts and install 6,000 lights. Ohoo boy how do we even begin. CCTV.....

And you wonder why you live in a slum city without electricity, water or sewage? And all of you are just waiting for Dangote

Declining. Kenya is not nigeria. Our forex at the HIGHEST it's ever been at $8.85B - and that covers all our imports needs - and leave enough to defend our KShs - which is one of Africa very stable and solid currency. We ran our macro-economics very seriously. This is not Nigeria's Central Bank - which rans on vodoo. The last and first time we had forex issues was 1990-1993!!!

Kenyans have never had to worry about forex shortage or oil shortage or petrol queues? or blackouts or whatever shortages the last many decades- nigeria crapple with daily. Those are very strange problems....you find in Ethiopia or Nigeria or such countries..Not KENYA. Most people in kenya don't even know you can ever ran out of forex and have to go to black market

The usual 3-4 months - seem we now have 6 months import bill worth of forex - that can only mean KSHS will appreciate against the dollar. Way too strong.

https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/marketnews/Kenya-foreign-exchange-reserves-at-record-high-last-week/3815534-3912122-gnd0hm/index.html

shervydman:
oga, leave this one alone, abeg. Their forex reserve is declining very fast n he's blabbing jargons.

Ohoo we had forex problems last in 1992 -nearly 30 yrs ago - when we devalued our Kshs to dollar from 1-20sh to 1-nearly 60s - and that was all.

You can interpret forex with import bill. You only need forex to import stuff or pay debts. We have more than enough cover -4 months.

Our Kshs is one of Africa most stable country because our Central Bank is not ran by voodoo like Nigerian one. And it's free-floating.

I think our forex reserve is 7-9$ billion dollars and it's doesn't swing with OIL like Nigeria. It kept pace with our import bill....and you can buy as much forex as you want in Nairobi. There is no black market. The problem is your naira shs is worthless.

68816419:

"Kenya has never had any problem with it's Forex reserve " ....please how OK are you, can you please interpret this graph below ?

Cooked GDP is not going to add revenue that Lagos need to build infrastructure, to supply water to it's resident, electricity to it's people, to collect garbagae, build low cost housing to replace makoko, and name it.

68816419:
Lagos was the seventh largest economy in Africa in 2014 with gdp of $90 billion guess what number it is now?
sources -
https://qz.com/676819/lagos-is-afric...rst-oil-finds/
I think numbers differ on different stats...
in 2017 its gdp hit $136 billion( Lagos grew during the Nigerian recession)
http://sunnewsonline.com/lagos-gdp-hits-136b-ambode/

You need forex to cover import bill. Kenya has never had any problem with it's forex reserve. The recommendation I think is to have 3-4 months import cover of forex. Kenya has way more than that. Don't talk about Nigeria forex - you guys have SERIOUS MIGHTY Issues. You basically produce very little...and therefore you need tonnes of forex to import...nearly everything including refined oil, sugar, wheat, generators

68816419:
Same shitty talk with no prove, how about Kenya Foreign Exchange Reserves vs Nigeria Foreign Exchange Reserves?
From the graph trends, one could see how stupidly Kenya is declining as a result of massive corruption(unnecessary withdrawal) , but same can not be said to Nigeria

Maybe when you count in Naira...try USD. The exalted lagos - collect roughly N500B - which in US is mere $1.38B per annum. Kenya collects $15B from taxes alone - total revenue is close to $20B - with total budget nearly equal to Nigeria's. Nairobi on it's own - despite not being a state - manages to collect about %0.2B from land rates & licensing fee only.
https://www.dailytrust.com.ng/lagos-total-revenue-in-2017-stands-at-n503-7bn-ambode.html

68816419:
Lagos is far better than Kenya in all reunification, size, economy, infrastructure, tax revenue !

Lagos & Nigeria can claim any GDP figure (it's all free) - but it won't increase the size of fufu on their plate. Lagos can claim to have GDP bigger than Algeria or Kenya - but it still will have 2-3B dollars every here to gather for 10-20M people. Kenya has 28+3B (31-32)B to spend every year. GDP can only be helpful if it;s credible to be trusted by investors or lenders , if it actually generate revenue & taxes.

nwoke37:
Lagos is a state.. Johannesburg is a city within the gauteng province which also has a bigger gdp than Kenya..
https://nigeriacommunicationsweek.com.ng/lagos-gdp-hits-136bn/

And blackout or brown outs - are listed in our single power distributor website..and those are schedule maintance...we have more than 20% idle capacity...about 500MW just sitting there...when we consume about 2000MW. The last load-shedding I can't remember. Power cuts due to over-supply - we use to have stand by generators (Not in our houses) - but in power producers - for those - but they've mostly been decommissioned coz they were just expensive and we have made huge investment in clean stable geothermal.

And as soon as we connected everyone - and complete other innovations that mean power lines can be maintained without being cut...these will become so rare....they make start making news.

http://kplc.co.ke/category/view/50/power-interruptions

Blackout in kenya are so rare they make news! The whole country is nearly covered with electricity- few spots here and there - and people who can't afford the connection - and those are being connected.

Even in the worst of slums - people in kenya enjoy constant 24-7 power supply. Just visit or read news.

And considering the base we started from ...I think 12% in 2006...it's incredible what we've done in electrifying the country.

samsobo24:
give me an authentic stat and I will tell you how irrelevant Kenya is to our existence

I agree - read what I wrote again - there is constant 24-7 supply in nearly every corner of kenya - but there are households who haven't connected - because they can't afford - not because there is no electricity. Say in village x - you have 10 people connected to main grids - and another 10 who can't afford - and so the supply side is sorted - it just the demand side.

Daejoyoung:
Stop lying, only 55% of Kenyans are connected to the national grid.

Just demonstrate that Kenya GDP is cooked. You have tonnes of consumption and expenditure data to cross-reference our GDP.
You can go sector by sector - start with agricluture - how much of cereals we produce or consume - you can go stuff like oil, cement - energy - telcoms - manufactured goods - and you can compare to similar size GDP country in the world.

Daejoyoung:
And yet with the so called constant electricity in Kenya and even with the cooked GDP, Kenya still struggles to surpass that city's GDP.
With all your so called development ahead of Nigeria, your HDI is still 146 in the world, what then are you Kenyans bragging about?

There is adequate power all over kenya - the last time we had serious power rationing was in drought of 1999 - then we depended on hydro - now we depend on stable geothermal power - yeah we are on of world leaders of clean power - no diesel engines here - and there is stable power in the whole of the country - apart from schedule maintenance. Just ask anybody around. 24-7. All over kenya.

I think right now we are about 50-60% of everyone having power - our target is universal electricity coverage by 2022. And clearly the world has never seen such pace of ELECTRIFICATION. We were merely 12% of coverage 10yrs ago..now we are looking at hooking everyone to electricity...even those living in mud huts.
https://qz.com/882938/kenya-is-rolling-out-its-national-electricity-program-in-half-the-time-it-took-america/

samsobo24:
Generator or whatever, we are still better off because,we have the money

Don't worry Mr rvp, I am expecting the Lagos state IPP to start distributing power and other projects by the FG and states for other states.

You keep deceiving your self,as if light is Even adequate in Nairobi

And do you even think some households don't use light for at least 16 hrs per day or more.What of numerous estate generating their own power eg Amen.Estate Ajah,Lagos

How can you talk of modern GDP when electricity is on for 5 or 6 minutes every day!

NairobiWalker:
Btw why don't you bring a reliable source that places Lagos GDP at over $88 billion? Sometimes people tell themselves a lie so frequently they start believing it themselves.

It's very unlikely you can keep the generator running for that long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBUWB8atYoY

samsobo24:
Then I am where,or your Nairobi village

[b][/b]

rvp2018:
Lazy and criminal minded - because there a lot of disenchantment & entitlement from OIRO. kenyans are corrupt. But they don't wake up expecting anything free! or illegally tapping power or cutting pipelines - not at least the majority of people.

Lazy and criminal minded - because there a lot of disenchantment & entitlement from OIRO. kenyans are corrupt. But they don't wake up expect anything free! or illegally tapping power or cutting pipelines - not at least the majority of people.

Jay254:
No wonder Buhari called them Lazy.. They expect oil to do everything...

Let them continue eating their GDP

I tell you oil can be a curse. Nigerians think oil+bad governance entitles them to free services like the Saudis. Politician just grab themselves some oil field or oil revenue..and the are set. It's worse than the dutch disease. Imagine while every africa country now has all sort of smart or pre-paid metering - nigeria are estimating bills - which nobody pays - so distributor goes bankrupt - so he can't pay producer - who can't ran the turbines to produce power - and w[b]hen you ask nigerians why they don't have power..something even Mogadishu has...they resort to saying it's coz there are 200M - so load shedding is required.[/b]

The power needed to power 200M for basic stuff - lighting, watching TV and fridge is not alot. That is why kenya has connected 6M household at 2,500MWs! If nigeria were to manage their 12,000 mw installed capacity - they can light up 33m household - the entire nigeria - assuming each household has 6 people.

You only need crazy south african kinda of power if you're doing minning - south africa power is off charts compared to even developed world coz of their huge minning industry. Nigeria has no minning - they don't need any extra MW - 12,000MW is enough to provide regular stable 24-7 power to nearly every nigerian.

The only people who get something work in nigeria - are the likes of dangote - who ran their huge generators in their factories.

Jay254:
No wonder Buhari called them Lazy.. They expect oil to do everything...

Let them continue eating their GDP

And Nigerian think Dangote adding another 12,000MW will miraclously deal with such serious structural issues...from 12,000mw plus - only 1800mw get to Nigeria. That is why Nigeria GDP doesn't make sense. Yemi Kale is tracking the installed capacity. Not what is consumed..1,800MW -which is lower than kenya. Kenya I think has now reach consumption of around 2,000MW with 500mw as idle capacity for peak hours.

Nigeria has capacity for generation over 12,000mega watts, only 4,000mw have been achieved at any time, out of which 1,800mw are paid for by consumers, making the providers to be in perpetual indebtedness.

‘’ I will give you a small example: Nigeria has an installed capacity of 12,522 Megawatts of power. We have non-available capacity of 5,300; we have non-operational capacity of 3,180; meaning that the amount that is actually available is just over 4,000 Megawatts out of 12,500. “We have transmission loss of 228, we have distribution loss of 447 Megawatts. At the end of the day, only 3,800 Megawatts reach the consumer. And we have commercial loss of more than 36 percent. “So, what is actually being paid for out of the over 3,000 Megawatts is only 1,800 Megawatts. So unless and until we decide to look at these inefficiency within the value chain, there is no way we can have better electricity generation, distribution and also billing system in the country.

Read more at: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/05/power-sector-no-hope-nigeria-senate/

Read more at: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/05/power-sector-no-hope-nigeria-senate/

I just got the lastest Kenya gdp figures - and guess what we are using 10,000 plus gwh - which is the same as nigeria. You guys really need to wake up. You can double or triple the investment in power production - like you've done - but that won't mean nothing if people don't pay - power distributor go bankrupt - power producer can't crank up generation.

And the problem is nigeria don't pay for anything. they don't pay for utilities. they don't pay taxes. they tap or illegally connect power or pipelines.

You guys are seriously messed up. You can try introduce pre-paid meters but that won't stop illegal tapping...which will lead to bankrupt power producers and distributors.

Maybe the armed forces can take over and enforce order for 10-20yrs - and really beat common sense to people - so they can start acting civilized.

Most nigerians think because there is oil - then they deserve everything free - no tax - no bill - oil takes cares of everything.

Danielnino00:
This our epileptic power supply matter is one of the main reason why we are f**ed....... A lot of people are willing to invest here due to our huge human resource and productivity levels,but electricity supply and security are the major challenge...if the government can fix those two issues,I see no reason why our economy won't b 20 times that of Kenya.

Yeah the more I dig the more I really pity Nigeria.
Kenya unemployment rate is 7.5% - the 40% is more a myth - although personally I had rather we were rigorous and didn't count the informally employed. Otherwise the figures you see is more of "economic activity" than employment.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001274158/the-shame-of-jobless-kenyans


The report suggests that the unemployment rate for the entire population has come down to 7.4 per cent from 9.7 per cent in 2009 and 12.7 per cent in 2005.

kikuyu1:
Keep that consumption data coming though its like Croatian language to Naijjans! Some of us see the relevance-btw if you can can you get our REAL UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURES not that 40% bs the WB IMF keep throwing out. If anyone can its you-I'm told its high since they don't count our self employed farm workers as working unlike everywhere else. If you've spent anytime in Tz or Ug you know those guys are wayyyyy less productive than us.
I know its a big ask but nobody else here has the forensic research skills,ndugu.

Maybe if you focused your baseless insults on helping Nigeria out of it's morass - nigeria would be using half of it's installed capacity - in productive things. But I guess when you have generators noise all over you - you tend to become grumpy bitter man.

The giant consume 1.5M of sugar against kenyans nearly 1M. You consume 10,000 gwh of electricity against 8,000 in Kenya.

Where exactly is this cooked GDP?

justtoodark:
sooo what....??

@kikuyu - you'd be shocked how much electricity Nigeria consumes. They are peak oscilate from 2,000m to 4,000 mw - with around 2,500mw.

About 2,400 gwh per Q - give and take 10,000 gigawatt hour per annum - and Kenya consume around 7-8,000 gw per hours.

https://guardian.ng/energy/nigerias-average-electricity-generation-hits-2548gwh-in-q4/

Really - you need to stop buying Dangote big plans - and deal with reality

As of now - Nigeria total SUGAR consumption is 1.5M metric tonnes (giant! - kenya I think consume 0.8-0.9M metric tonnes of sugar - so the dwarf consume about half the 200M people of nigeria import - poverty).

And Nigeria total local production is 0.18M metric tonnes - I think Kenya produce anything 0.5-0.6M metric tonnes - so our deficit is little over 0.2-0.3M metric tonnes - Nigeria basically import all the sugar they need (1.5M metric tonnes)

https://guardian.ng/features/still-a-long-way-to-attaining-self-sufficiency-in-sugar-production/

Nigeria as of 2016 was largest importer of sugar in Sub-Sahara Africa - importing 1.5M metric tonnes.

https://www.proshareng.com/news/Commodities/Nigeria-is-the-Largest-Importer-of-Sugar-in-Sub-Saharan-Africa--With-an-Import-Level-of-1.56mmt/38507

nwoke37:
What about cosharis rice farm?
Olam?
Or why are we almost sufficient in rice production?
Or how Nigeria successful phased out sugar imports because we produced enough?
How Nigeria has the largest sugar processing complex in the world?
Didn’t u see our agricultural produce in shoprite?
Guy u are such a depressed fellow. Yes Nigeria has problems but there are still positives. Nigeria has larger agricultural sector than those countries u mentioned.

Have u not been seeing the constant recent investments,both foreign and local(including Dangote), being made in agriculture in
Nigeria.

They've done okayish - although it seem the oil bad manners have got into them ..now they are also yoyoing with global oil price. I have found them more progressive than Nigeria. Obviously our aim now is South Africa...but we need 10-15yrs.

jason14:
loooll u want to compare Kenya to our 37th state (Ghana)? wow OK ooo its ur party

......JASON THE NAIJA DUDE

Stop looking at wikipedia..look at this African Investment destination for 2018 - and Kenya is in top 10 - Nigeria nowhere to be seen.
Below are the top 10 African countries to invest in 2018:
Egypt
South Africa
Morocco
Ethiopia
Ghana
Kenya
Tanzania
Rwanda
Tunisia
Cote d’Ivoire
http://venturesafrica.com/here-are-the-top-ten-2018-investment-destinations-in-africa/

Daejoyoung:
Why do you think he hasn't travelled? and you how far have you travelled to shape your view that Kenya like Naija is not doing well at all. For a small country like Kenya, the FDI is way way down, 146 in the world, that's not nice in my opinion.

Sorry but again this kinda lame. We want to hear the difference and similarities btw Nigeria and Kenya. This is why this thread exists. I think you're just too ashamed that Nigerian your country is so backward as compared to kenya! I think purchasing power parity only makes sense if Kenya was developed nation and Nigeria not...I don't see any serious price differential for goods of the same quality. Obviously kenya has lot more quality - therefore you can expect slightly higher prices...for example kenya's accomodation is mainly world-class compared to Nigeria.

PhilipGallagher:
I'm not joining you guys to argue which country is more developed, cause i don't see any point in it. IMHO both countries are developing and each has her own strengths and weakness. I've been to both countries and have seen both the good and bad sides. None of them is so wonderful and incredible. To your statement...


Dude you are just looking for arguement. For the same goods of the same quality made by the same manufacturer (e.g coca-cola), the cost is cheaper in nigeria than in kenya. So it's not an arguement of quality . Same with cost of accomodation amongst other things. The cost of goods are affected by alot of factors. Lastly i find your use of the word "lame" quite insulting, you don't have to insult (a country or it's people ) to pass your message across. Sawa

Chance are high the nigerians defending nigeria here are not in Lagos or Abuja.

sufferNsmiling:
The thing here is not nigeria and ghana or nigeria and kenya . It is more off nigeria and the rest of the world .we nigerians are so illiterate that we do not no wear last in every thing in the world. The only thing nigeria has today is people running away from the country like soldier ants and termites That is where we are number one in the world. It is only an illiterate who has nothing but makes noise up and down the place that he is the best. Illiteracy is a big problem came across 12 nigerians in one room in south africa all illegal they ware making noise nigeria this nigeria that nigeria is the giant I said to them why are you in one room in south africa making noise about nigeria they replied that they need to make noise to show their still alive and to show nigeria is alive. I was laughing to myself and I say these are a bunch of illiterate.

I did check what was shared here - and all I saw were 4 formerly zim farmers supposedly producing all eggs nigerian need.So what can Nigerian do to get out of the current morass. Politically it appears the country is held hostage by religious difference.

sufferNsmiling:
rvp2018 .I get your point on agriculture. But whoever is saying we should diversify in agriculture is a lie and is lying to you.in cameroon today there are more than 280 nigeria commercial farmers and in ghana 153 nigeria commercial farmers in nigeria four states no commercial farm active or running. Most of the commercial farms have packed up and left the country. Whoever is telling you in nigeria to do agriculture is a lie all we have are peasant farmers.

Nigeria you better diversify you economy - and please not through agriculture . I mean every country including Kenya is looking to lower their agricluture GDP contribution. Agriculture is good..but is has little multiplier effect. Try manufacturing.

China is already retiring Nigeria size local demand for oil -

About 279,000 barrels a day of fuel won’t be needed this year thanks to electric buses in China alone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-23/electric-buses-are-hurting-the-oil-industry