₦airaland Forum

cheikh: Sagamite


@^^ Yes if well trained but old habits and attitudes are difficult to shift especially in a "psychotic"/"damaged" society like SA.

8-year olds will not be legally in employment let a lone be unionised to go on strike/rampage. In any case I doubt it if the SA police will be so foolish to hack 8-year olds - it is not unheard off in SA history - killing school kids and women would not be difficult for a "sick" society. They are already inured to such violence and psychically prepared for such outrages. it is in the nature of the society anyway.

I am not talking about SA police, I am talking about the savage mob.

This savage mob have killed 10 people and were in the process of attacking police men when they were shot down. Some people somehow feel sorry for them and think you should respect them in death.

I am asking if the 10 people killed were 8 year old kids, forget the possibility of the scenario, just imagine these savages hacked kids to death, would you condemn the police one jot for their actions?

If these savages have maraudingly hacked 10 kids to death and when the police arrive to control them, they charge at the police to attack the police and then the police start cutting them down with bullets, would you be talking about tactics and the value of their life?

snydergp: The wurst strike in SA was three years ago or so when 4 people died in a security sector union strike when none striking guards where killed.

Wow!

So it is almost normal in SA for dumb illiterate savages to kill other people because they do not want to join their strike?

And people are complaining when this worthless savages are killed?

snydergp: When tragidy like this happens most foreign and white owned media would generalise and report as if south africans always act in an uncivilized manner.

It was not a tragedy, it was a delight.

cheikh: Sagamite
@^^ The Almajiri are not murderous per se but perhaps some ex- Almajiri grads as you put it are murderers/criminals and have become easy recruits to the BH(quasi-islamic liberation) cause. Sincerely , I worry more about our inept and lazy government(states and central) who have inadvertently managed to encourage their development/murderous growth in our midst in the North especially. I put it down to the fact that "we rip what we sow". "The chicken has come home to roust". Various regimes in Nigeria have been wicked and deliberately neglectful of their responsibilities towards the people under their "rule"/administration. It is only a matter of time the oppressed will return to haunt everyone innocent or not. Nature does not allow vacuum .

You are right.

Secondly, despite the several murderfest in Nigeria (especially and predominantly in the North), I am yet to see or hear of one single person being punished for any.

You wanna bet we will have another killing feast within the next 6 months?

Come o. snydergp and andrewza can you lend Nigeria these SAP officers to help us deal with our own arsewipes called NURTW?

cheikh: Sagamite

@^^There is such thing as "intelligent/Smart" policing tactics. Somehow, the SA police culture like their American counterparts believe in "Rambo" "muscular" style policing inherited from their very recent ugly/sad past. What stops the police from defusing an already tense situation by making a tactical retreat a few metres back instead of the usual show of "who has the biggest gun/"ammo" in the field. Retreat/temporary/tactical withdrawal is no weakness but strength of character/intelligence on the part of a good commander/officer in a no win situation. The goal is to minimise the dangers and loss of innocent lives. It is not about a boyish 'Ramboesque' solutions where everything "scatter" .

The so called useless ones in "societies" actually serve their purpose in keeping loads of so called "useful" ones in work/jobs too .

They could have done all that if they were well trained and equipped.

But I am happy there were not.

Kill the murderous savages while you have the chance and the legal grounds.

I can bet you would not be speaking all these tactics if it was 10 8-year olds they hacked to death, would you?

cheikh: Sagamite


@^^ Every loss of life is a stain on our collective being/psyche.
I have always worried about us(Africans), especially about "what we do and how we treat each other as fellow human beings. Believe me, my fears about us is borne out of my Naija domain and observation of other places in the continent too. Sometimes, I wonder when we are going to be "sensitive", humane and mindful of how we behave towards each other as Africans, as individuals/government officials(private/public) everywhere especially in our immediate domains .

I agree with you. We need to be sensitive, humane and mindful in how we behave with each other. That is the message we need to pass especially to savages, but not the privileges we give to them when they behave like savages. We deal with them then.

If we had been doing that to our murderous almajiri grads up North, maybe we would not have the seasonal murderfest they enjoy so much.

andrewza: Trust me yes you will shoot (or maybe freeze up I don't know you) but you will not pleasure. If you do you are not normal. I have trained to kill and I pray I never have to use that skill. Don't get me wrong I support what the cops did but they should never been in the position to be forced to kill. So before bragging about kill people remember it is not like the tv or games it will stay with you. I know growen men who have nightmares because of what they did. At the time they felt joy but it stays with you and changes a man.

Trust me, I will get pleasure.

God's own truth!

Scouts honour!

Give me Josef Fritzl today and let me show you the pleasure I will get from killing some wicked arseholes.

cheikh: Sagamite



@^^ Sagamite Do you remember our conversation about our trigger happy murderous Naija policemen? You know my stance on that . No surprises .

As for your second point about "People should get the right punishment and response for their actions" -- Since when did the police become prosecutors,magistrates, judges and jailers or in this case "licensed" "murderers"? I quite understand their "espirit de corps", seething anger for their dead comrades in arms but that does not excuse "murder"and even worse "Vengeance" by any arm of the government. South Africa is reputed to have one of the most comprehensive liberal laws in the world so why did both sides not excise patience for further dialogue. Anyway, that's SA where old habits of "brutish" quick fix methods of yesteryears have "worked" for them. Life has always been very cheap in SA so perhaps loosing a number of semi-illiterate miners is no biggie. Shocking!! . Sadly, Nigeria is fast descending to that level too.

My father I think should be "bright" enough to remember our recent[b] history[/b] of "institutionlised" violence and wickedness so perhaps he'll "chicken" out and not be present at such very tense gathering .
I sincerely find it surprising that there are some South Africans who have forgotten their "history" so soon, that they are even forgetful of the inherent pervasive cruelty, wickedness and violence in their society. The people are mindless in their gratuitous violent tendencies just like some ghetto Americans. It is sad really.

If I have a sub-machine gun and some murderous people are rushing at me to kill me, I am definitely NOT going to be or play prosecutors,magistrates, judges and jailers. Definitely none of those. I would be God! I will be Alpha and Omega! I will help them end it. I will help them end their miserable lives. Make no mistake.

If they did not give the police the excuse or reason to be prosecutors,magistrates, judges and jailers I would not support the police if they shot them. But they did and I am happy they did.

In life, societies will do better if they get rid of their useless ones.

cheikh: Sagamite

@^^ Hi Sagamite, how Na? Do you sincerely believe that the "miners are exactly that bright let alone articulate enough to fathom the enormity/consequences of their would be action by wielding "low tech" weapons. Somehow they forgot the memory of their "recent" history as South Africans. History/memory always rewards those with a good grasp of it. The SA police have always acted like their Nigerian counterparts as "renegades" whether they are right or wrong does not matter. Believe me, the truth of the events are already lost on the people. What is left now is basically recriminations, silly committees, lies, and half truths etc. We'll never know. The truth always is in-between .

I dey, bruv.

The fact that they are not bright or articulate and are murderous towards people that disagree with them is the more reason I think they are worthless and deserve to die.

They murdered 10 people like savages because they wanted higher pay.

Tell me, do you think if it was 10 children they killed, hacking them to death, all these fucktards would have come here to be saying rubbish? They will not say the arsewipes deserve the killing by the police? They will have respect or remorse for the dead?

You think people would not be falling over each other to show they were the most outraged? You think people like vivacious vivi will not be gong-ho to show their outrage at the barbarity? Ask her.

Lets be objective, bruv!

snydergp: As a soldier or should I say former soldier yes I would have shot them and with the tipe of weoponry we use more would have died.

What I must say is that there were police that were useing accesive force though.

As a South African and firstly a human I'm mourning the loss of life.

@Sagamite the day u hold a gun in your hand and u stand next to a lifeless body then u'll understand my point. Life of a black poor man in this world is wurthless today.

A properly trained and equiped police force would have stood there ground and not allow rioters to brake through there lines. My problem is not with the police who defended themself but its with the cops who cowardly turned around and ran away, they were the main problem including there comanders who didn't have a proper strategy to deal with the miners.

The cops who opened fire looked like task force members and they aren't fit for riot control the only thing they know like soldiers is to shoot first and ask questions later.

The culture of violence and impunity by striking workers should stop in SA and trigger happy emotionally charged policeman is also a contributing facter.

Nomather how bad a person might behave emotions should never overrun logic especially when it comes to police and a life of a person that goes for both sides.

Thank you. You would have done the same thing. So no condemning these policemen.

snydergp: @Sagamite the day u hold a gun in your hand and u stand next to a lifeless body then u'll understand my point. Life of a black poor man in this world is wurthless today.

Trust me.

Take this as God's own truth.

Trust my words when I say: I will not feel a gaddamn thing except pleasure if the person deserves it.

You try and kill me for no reason, I will smoke you with the biggest pleasure no orgazm can give you even if you were given Kim Kardashian, Amber Rose, Keri Hilson and Meagan Good in one night to bone at the same time.

cheikh: RSA
@^^ Thank RSA. I've said it severally on NL and in private conversations that SA is a "damaged" society and there is so much unfinished business everywhere in Africa. It'll take many decades if not hundreds of years to wean them(SA) of the above violent "psychic" disorder. Old habits die hard. It does not matter who's right or wrong in this case. From the responses so far, I can deduce that we have all been inured to violence and ugliness that nothing shocks us anymore especially Nigerians. It is a shame that the many decades of military rule and the accompanying brutish behaviour, generally have sensitised and cowered everyone so much so that even under so called "democratic" dispensation, we still exhibit and clamour for more "authoritarian" military era methods of policing our numerous crises(police check points) et al, numerous uniformed(police) body guards for all manner of persons- from politicians to business men/women etc. Presently, our so called soldiers(JTF) are treacherously committing genocide in Bornu state(NE Nigeria) in the guise of chasing after Boko Haram(BH). A part of me somehow, may think that they deserved the "death wish" but what does that make us as so called " intelligent" "humane" humans beings? We should all be careful for what we wish for others because of their "temporary" madness if we may describe the "strikers" and "police" vengefulness as so called "right" or appropriate response because two or three of their men have been killed. I thought that Law enforcement must not be motivated by vengeance [/b]and excessive show of brute "[b]power". I know this because Nigeria has become a highly militarised/violent/aggressive environment albeit low intensity of course in some areas not quite like SA where violence is literally/psychically institutionalised. We are all diminished as human beings by the ugly scenes of the massacre and it damages our collective psyche as a people. I sincerely send my condolences to those on either side of the "craziness" and wish you well too. I am ashamed as an African.

I believe in vengeance and I am a strong advocate of vengeance.

I bet if it was your father that was killed by savages while going to work, you will not say "oh, it is temporary madness".

People should get the right punishment and response for their actions.

Maybe then we would start having people that think before they act, and less animals pretending to be humans.

panafrican:

All africans south join south africain protestser all arroun the world to call for tough actions against against this rogue regime. Why? because if it call kill its own people like that, it can also connive with international mafia to undermind the national security of any other african country.

If Zuma has a slight wisdom, his minister in charge of South Africa police should resign right now before things get out of control. These types of killings that remind us South africa's apartheid regime will not be tolerate.

Fck you. Fck your South African protesters.

cap28: hmm - you're right about the bruising - i keep telling your mom to suck her teeth in when she's giving me a bl.ow j.ob - but she just wont listen - oh well......

Is that what you do to your mum?

andrewza: Good thing the 3rd line of cops held. If they hit the army line with it's 12.7mm guns there would have been a reel mascara. The cops with non lethal did retreat but there attacks seemed to have achieved nothing and the mob was getting close. Either way the miners where at the wrong and the police did attempt less lethal means first. Better training would have avoided loss of life but that is not the fault of the officer on the ground but the system. I doubt many would have done better. Over all I still blame the miners and there unions.

Thank you!

We should never allow savages think they can take other people's lives for no reason and there will be no consequences.

Nigeria does that. SA should never fall to that pathetic level.

In Nigeria, people do this kind of barbarity with pure aplomb because we have leaders that will not act.

I pray SA progresses from its more advance level and never becomes a shythole like Nigeria. Nigeria better pick up!

snydergp: I'm a former SANDF member but I'm still involve in the reserve forces from time to time. Sometimes we are called up to assist police in anti crime operations and I must say that most of S.A has a lot of disrepect for the law and especially for the police I guess this is stemming from the way people we were treated by police in apartheid.

The military was also on standby but they were stationed a 500m-1km away from the frontline and I'm glad they did not get involve accept for the military medical staff who lend a hand in the aftermath of what transprired.

The members from the police who had barrets on there heads are not really trained for riot situations they have a bad reputation for there heavy handedness especially in townships people dispize them.

The problem that I as a trained soldier saw was that the police who were armed with rubber bullets and those in the water tankers retreated and they were surpose to stand there ground and hold there line but they turned around and ran when the rioters charged. The second line of police where caugh unawhere by what transpired and had no choice but to use lethal force to protect there lives.

So my brother @Sagamite, in my opinion the police did make a mess of what happend but the rioters had no right to attact the police they had the right to defend themselfs.

Any well trained policeman and soldier will tell u if the first line of defence fails the second line should have also stood there ground and formed a straight line and dispell the oncoming rioters. But no they were also in disaray. We all saw how they shot at those rioters without any care even for there own fellow policeman standing directly infront of them that was utter fullishness.

All human life is importend regardless of how armed or dangerious the situation is for the police did fire without thinking of the consiquences of there actions.

Any persons carrying a gun especially the police should know the conciquences of discharging a firearm.

The police were unprepared and that's that.

These mine bosses are also the problem they earn close to R1,2 to R1,5million rand monthly without carring for the workers. Lonmin promissed the miners houses 2years ago and this did not happen. The workers demands were also unreasonable for the mine especially in a climate where the platinum prices were falling and most mines are considering retrenchments.

Coming to my last point this should be a warning to other mining companies, labour unions and the goverment that people especially the poor are fed up with empty promises of employment and fair decent wages.

Companies like BHP Biliton, Lonmin, Anlglo Plats and Impala plaltinum have explioted workers for many years while the poor live in slums full of mine dust and no proper housing, the bosses are live in Sandton and London.

This goverment has seen this coming a longtime ago and they were warned but did nothing cause they didn't want to scare of foreign investors explioting poor people plus some of these mines are owned and managed by ANC members aswell. Even Zumas own family members who owns another mine didn't pay mine workers for a year and was forced by civilsociety groups and unions to pay its poor workers while he was spending $350,000 on a wedding and claiming that he had no money, but this is never shown on mainstream BBC and CNN cause they only want to show how European companies helping Africans with food aid.

S.A must nationalize all its mines like Botswana and start paying its workers a decent living wage but first we as the electorate must get rid of Zuma and these Trade Unions that prey on poor workers to fight there political battles while they live in posh suburbs and the poor still waits for decent housing.

A really sad day for mankind not just the families of those who died yesterday I hope there deaths would help us Sourh Africans to kickout all these Multinationals permanently.

What I asked you was what would you have done. You are yet to answer that question.

If you are one of the policemen, first line or second line, what would you have done when these savages are charging at you?

I also noted on the video that none of the police men had any riot shield.

So would you have stayed behind to reason with savages that have already killed people like you? Would you have tried to stop the savages with your bare hands? Would you have tried to outrun these savages? Or would you have gunned out the worthless shyt?

cap28: yeah sure, keep sh./ag...ging your unprotected way into HIV heaven.

Yeah, keep wa[i]n[/i]king your frustrated way to a bruised dyck.

cap28: do you see that guy that was on the news the other day who had a stroke and is now paralysed from the neck down? that will be you if you dont change these your toxic ways, may god have mercy on your poisonous soul.

Calm down. All I am saying is you should not be telling us your mother swallows.

coogar: if that is how you understand it, then i cannot help you.
there's a link between desire and action(behviour). fact!

But desire is not behaviour, as I said?

And wish is a desire, contrary to what you claimed?

coogar: desire fuels behaviour....repeat till my pulse stops(so don't bother asking again).
if you ask 1 gazillion times, my stance won't shift.

james holmes desired to have people killed, he is now in jail and he's been charged as a mass murderer.
what was his desire? to kill. what was his behaviour? killing!
is his desire is behaviour? if you answer this question, i owe you a treat!

So desire and behavior are not the same thing? I was right?

A wish is a desire? You are still dodging this right? You actually claimed a wish is not a desire?

cap28: your mother should have swallowed.

Is that what your mother does?

Why do you have to tell us what she does?

coogar: forcing your kids? kids do not count here.
firstly, they don't have a mind of their own and secondly they are trusting you as a father to make a good decision for them. stop using kids to advance your points. they cannot refuse even if they want to. you can still decide to kiss your wife in public in saudi arabia despite their strict laws. so your analogy has more holes than a samaritan's basket.



you never know......what you think is red might actually be black.



let others judge. i am not into your phallus-waving contest!



your desire fuels your behaviour. fact!



heheheh....
lecture the god of science and math? sagamite, nor be your type abeg!
restrict your lectures to advising baby mothers and women in failed marriages.

Admit it.

Desire is not the same thing as behaviour?

A wish is a desire?

coogar: i have explained this thoroughly. there's a thought behind every action!
you cannot behave in a certain way without a desire to do so - how is this ambiguous?

Let me tease you and quote were I will use to kill your arguments after you admit the above.

I will bring out academics like murrafucker.

You claim you can't behave in a certain way without the desire to do so?

ROFLMAO!!!

ronkebp: ^^^^^^ Hope you are warming up??

Prayer and fasting everyday now.

Scared shyt at the sight of slippers.

coogar: don't laugh too hard....



i have explained this thoroughly. there's a thought behind every action!
you cannot behave in a certain way without a desire to do so - how is this ambiguous?



you do not act on that desire because "another" thought supercedes your desire.
good conscience and evil conscience - duh! i desire to slap sagamite across the face but wait....if i slap him across the face, i would get locked up.....so let me just do something else. the something else i plan to do has now become the new desire. slapping you across the face ceases to be my number one desire or has been demoted to plan b(should plan a fail). the human mind is complex!



bisexuality - duh!



why isn't it their desire? of course they might grumble and then i put a tasty offer into it. "we all go to the macdonalds after church" - then going to church becomes their desire.



yes - you don't
the desire is now centred on respecting the law in saudi. kissing your wife in public has now ceased to be your number one desire. you either desire to kiss her in private or you forget about kissing her at all till you move back to your base in sagamu! it's simple logic.



and that "wish" could be termed as a fantasy!
what you decide to do before any given action is your desire.....you could do otherwise but you still decided to do what you thought to do. sagamite, stop arguing....




this is not "i no go gree"......you have not advanced your point one jot!
bringing up kids who don't want to go to church as example - you make me laugh. that's the wrongest instance to cite.
kids are called kids for a reason and that is because they cannot be held responsible for the actions they take. desire/wish cannot apply here......sagamite, try another gimmick, you are boring me!

So if I force my kids to go to church, then it is their desire to go.

As I said, you will have no hesitation claiming red is black in an argument:

https://www.nairaland.com/1012348/parents-how-teach-daughters-self-esteem/17#11845510

I will let others jugde the silliness of the answers.

Your own responses is proving my assertion you are a champion of "I no go gree, you must kill me today arguments".


Desire is not the same thing as behaviour? Fact?

A wish is a desire? Fact?

Admit it!

When you admit it, I will then lecture you on how laws and power and authority are linked.

foyeks2001: Some dudes here are just too razz-already fornicating wit anoda man's wife while even on clothes...Na wetin, y don't u get urs and stop this abominable thinking

I will sh[i]a[/i]g her and still have enough feul to SH[i]A[/i]G you after.

lagerwhenindoubt: Marriage life is starting to tell on her behind that gangster niggu prince is akpakoooin like a mofo.. damn!!

You dey blame am?

I will hit that murrafcking arse like if it was my last chance before I die.

coogar: i disagree with you.....
sagamite did a cop-out on the night cos he knew what i am about....one-third of my intelligence quotient is beyond 99% of the inhabitants onf this planet!



until i am convinced my argument has been murdered, i don't just cop-out
i don't leave a fight without a blackeye




there's no point to admit here, sagamite.
are you seeing differently?



coogar does too....
i am capable of beating niggas to death and also capable of beating dead niggas back to life.



your desire becomes your behaviour. if you desire to drink and you carry out your thoughts, you would drink.
there's a thought behind every action.



duh! i left you in a mourning period much earlier when i told you to learn the difference between controlling and dictating.



thank you....let's get down to biznizz!



i am struggling to cope as to why you are defining the things i already know here.
wish, desire, behaviour, etc. did i actually say the technical meaning of desire and behaviour is the same? what i was trying to say is....if you desire something and you carry it out, that desire has become your behaviour!

james holmes desired to kill innocent people in aurora, he went to the cinema with a loaded weapon and carried out his desire. what was his desire? to kill. what was his behaviour? he killed. is there any disparity between what he desired and what he ended up doing? this is not rocket science. there's a thought(desire) behind every action.


you were the culprit caught scraping the barrel earlier.

i would show you after you must have shown me why you concluded "dictating" and "controlling" are different things.

floor accepted with all pleasure....i did justice to the floor and the floor is now being passed back to you.

I am laughing hard, men.

So now it is no more desire is the same thing as behaviour, so it is now desire becomes behaviour.

So why did you say here desire is behaviour?

https://www.nairaland.com/1012348/parents-how-teach-daughters-self-esteem/17#11842165

What if you have a desire but due to laws you do not satisfy or act on that desire? You behaviour is now your desire?

So gay Saudi Arabians that marry and have sex with women, according to you, their desire is now for women, not men?

So if tell my kids to come to church, and they go, according to your logic, it is their desire?

So if I decide to respect the law in Saudi and do not kiss my wife, according to your logic, I don't desire to kiss her then?

Here are dictionary definition of desire for you to help you:

Desire

1. to wish or long for; crave; want.
2. to express a wish to obtain; ask for; request: The mayor desires your presence at the next meeting.
3. a longing or craving, as for something that brings satisfaction or enjoyment: a desire for fame.
4. an expressed wish; request.
5. something desired.
6. sexual appetite or a sexual urge.

A desire is your choice, not what you have to do because others restrict you. Basically a WISH!

"I no go gree, you must kill me today arguments".

And you forgot your argument that wish is not desire, oya lets hear that one. I see you dodge am.

otumfour: the background pretty much sums up nigeria .....why is there always tht green stuff on ur walls......bn seeing this in almost all ur movies.....is it a representing ur flag

And believe me, you will be charged an arm and a leg to buy such.

Don't be surprised if they say a 3 bedroom flat in that building is £100K.

Naija value for money.

Fck me not!

I don't like the hair but what a great body.

I will tear that body up to the point I will be arrested for GBH!

andrewza: Current casualty report. Over 30 dead over 70 wounded. Dose not mention how many of the wounded where from life rounds and how many from less lethal.

It would be nice if the 70 wounded don't survive or, at least, are face permanent disability so they can live a life of misery.

snydergp: and what happend yesterday was a massacre. The SAPS was wronge in there actions including the mine workers.

If you were a policeman there, standing on the frontline and you have uneducated, useless, armed savages (that have killed a few people before) charging at you with their weapons, what will you do?

Tell me.

I wait.

SAGirl: I liked a comment by someone in the media about how these miners put their lives on the line every single day by going underground, and they earn next to nothing for it while the mine-owning fatcats are billionares (and they are no longer just whites falling in this group). So death does not scare these miners, they face it everyday.

If you don't like your pay, quit your job or go and have your own mine. Don't go and kill innocent people.

SAGirl: I personally blame the Trade Unions, they use these desperate people as porns in their greed for power.

If they are so dumb to be used like that to kill innocent people and distabilise society then they deserve to be taken out.

Claus: ^^^DAYUUMMM!!!

Claus, you did not know I was intellectually bad arsè before?

Maa wo e. (Dey look you).