₦airaland Forum

londoner: You still didn't answer my question.

How come you didn't assume the owner of the Bugatti was a property mogul or inherited clean money, Since you say that would be an acceptable scenario? That bis the assumption that you made. Not of a fictional civil servant, but an actual individual.

All you saw was the car and you started accusing a person you don't even know of being a thief.

You are the one not answering my question, my friend.

Why would I assume the owner inherited it? Am I the one insisting on looking at judging based on individuals? You have got your arguments muddled up?

Let me clarify for you:

- I have applied a consistent approach. Judging based on odds.

- You have applied an inconsistent approach. Sometimes you judge on odds, others on individual.

You should be answering my questions to clarify your inconsistent approach.

Donxavier: . Most people who make clean money do not spend it like that. You are not likely to see a man who worked very hard for his money spend it on a $2.2M bugatti veyron. You are likely however to see a man who got rich by embezzling or other shady deals spend it on that. The car is more like a celebrity toy meant to show off. It's highly unlikely to see a sucessful clean Nigerian entrepreneur spend money like that.

Well said!

A Nigerian entrepreneur that worked hard and faced the rough terrains and uncertainty of the Nigerian tough business environment is unlikely to throw the money away because he knows tomorrow might not be that good. The Nigerian honest business industry is far less certain than the corruption industry. If you make it honestly in Nigeria, you would be more cautious with your money.

londoner: Because he would not have earned it through his wages, would he?

Sagamite....no amount of to-ing or throwing will change my stance. No manner of fictional scenarios you come up with will make me accuse the owner of the car of being a thief or someone who stole from the government.
Simply because he owns a Bugatti.

And who told you majority of professional civil servants in Nigeria don't have side investments?

What proportion of the super-rich (that can afford a Bugatti) in Nigeria do you think got their money legally?

londoner: Because it is a civil servant and my assumption is that a civil servant can not be paid that amount for his job. Or can they be? Even so, it is very possible for a person to have inherited etc....so I would be wrong in my assumption would I not?

Okay, so lets use you example........do you know whether the owner of the Bugatti inherited money or is a property guru?

So you judged the civil servants on the odds of a civil servant having such an amount, not as an individual?

But you refuse to judge the anonymous person on the odds of being one of the majority corrupt super-rich in Nigeria, you insist that that case must be based on the individual?

londoner: I am not of the same opinion with you that the owner must have stolen their money from the state or through corruption.....I just don't believe that automatically, especially with no info on the individual whatsoever.

So why did you believe automatically the civil servant might have stolen the money?

londoner: Well....I did say "until proven otherwise".....so I always leave room for the fact that I may be wrong and may not have all the relevant information.

My assumption would be that a civil servant would not have 400 million dollars from his salary, that is.
There is always the possibility that it could be inherited etc.

Why was your assumption not "innocent until proven otherwise"?

Donxavier: . I agree with you completely Sagamite. It seems Londoner is trying to be overly optimistic about what obtains in Nigeria to such an extent it has blinded her from the reality of what is on ground in Nigeria. I was born,bred and currently live in Nigeria and I can tell you categorically people that can afford that car from clean money are very few. Whoever owns it is likely to be a crook and one of those theives that have looted the treasuary. He/she most likey won't be able to survive any genuine scrutiny into source of funds. Londoner, things are really warped in Nigeria and the whole country is corrupt laden.

She made an error purely based on her eagerness to show some ethical superiority. And instead of admitting this and taking corrections, she has decided to dig her heels in.

That is the problem right here.

londoner: Yet still, you don't know who owns that car.

If a civil servant has $400 million it would be more reasonable to assume it is ill gotten wealth until proven other wise. They key here is that you know the person is a civil servant and how much they own.

Sagamite.........what does the owner of the Bugatti do for a living? When you know, then you can say whether they should be able to afford such a car or not......simple.

Oh, so you would assume under that?

Based on what? Odds?

How do you know if that person is not a property guru that has made a killing from investments? How do you know if his/her spouse is not doing business on the side? How come you did not think maybe the person inherited it?

You did not treat the person as an individual, you looked at the odds?

londoner: @Sagamite.......

If you can not direct your post to me in a respectful way then please don't address me anymore. You should know by now I don't respond to insults.

Where did I insult you?

londoner: I will not automatically deem the unknown owner a crook. We are not discussing the class of the rich here (which by definition is more than 1 person), although you are trying to direct the discussion that way it seems.

When we are talking about a singular owner of a car......then it has nothing to do with the majority....it is actually to do with that individual.

It makes sense to because the odds are it is a crook.

When you know the name and occupation of the owner, then you can start saying you will take them as an individual.

Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you will not assume a civil servant from a notoriously corrupt country is a crook when you hear they have £400m in a bank account until you know what other business activities they engage in.

londoner: @sagamite, you are in the UK are you not?

So, you know how the education and healthcare system works here obviously and how it is PAID FOR. You also how pensions work here (or have done).

We ALL know that it is ALL related to working age people paying taxes. That is why I did not suffer. There is a system that was working and that myself, yourself and others have been paying money into in the form of taxes.

Many of my relatives in Nigeria, make an honest living and are not suffering. I agree more needs to be done, but Nigerian society is one that believes in capitalism and if you work hard and buy a BMW and someone else works and builds up an industry or successful business that enables him/her to afford a Bugatti or a private jet.......so be it.

Why get upset over it? Or should he who can not afford a bicycle also be annoyed at you in your car? Afterall, you are able to buy what he can not.

It is all relative in my opinion.

For the first time, I am reading your post and I have an opinion you are a child in your teens. I used to think you were a lady in her 20s or early 30s.

You need to pack your bags and visit Nigeria more or even work and live their for a while.

First of all, when I mentioned pension, it is not a request for you to lecture me on how pensions are paid. It was to make you aware that such a simple and moral ENTITLEMENT is one thing people struggle to get in Nigeria and those looting it (FROM OLD DEFENSELESS PEOPLE) have a tendency to use the loot to live extravagant lives. They loot from the weak of society, to live a life they don't need or deserve just to feel like "big boys". So I mentioned it to show you that you that does not need to worry about such basic entitlements can have the luxury to be lackadaisical about someone driving a car in Nigeria that cost over $1m and $300K to service every year while 1 in 5 children die before the age of 5 due to corruption.

Secondly, if you follow my advice to visit Nigeria more, you will never say Nigeria society is one that believes in capitalism. Nigeria believes in corruptism and nepotism. Capitalism denotes the concept of free markets. Nigeria hardly has free markets in the main sectors.

londoner: The odds of the owner getting the money through honest means, TOTALLY depends on who the owner is actually.

Without that information, your annoyance at the individual who owns that car is misplaced and premature.

Also, I think you need to be practical. No amount of you being annoyed on NL is going to change people looting. Channeling that energy into an avenue which actually puts pressure on the government to prevent people from looting is much better. Putting pressure on the ministry of health (and taxation) etc, would give results in terms of a better healthcare system.

No!

The ODDS is Nigeria is not dependent on one person. Nigeria is not one person.

The odds in Nigeria is that the person is a crook since MAJORITY, by far MAJORITY, of people with such money in Nigeria are crooks.

Crooks that steal directly from the public purse.

Crooks that award themselves and friends national oil blocks or contracts without a competitive process.

Crooks that get business deals by virtue of connection rather than competence.

So UNTIL I know otherwise, it is sensible to assume this is a CROOK.

Nigeria elite and rich are FULL of crooks!

I will channel my energy into getting the population to change their mindset and thinking. To think more carefully before coming up with opinions. To be fed opinions or come up with opinions that will spur them to challenge their government.

That is the greatest stem of the change tree. A guiding philosophy!

Your lackadaisical thoughts are not helpful to Nigerians.

londoner: Btw I am a woman.

At the end of the day, things may not be rosey for all outside of Nigeria. For some it is good though. I was born and raised in London, so I am not "suffering".

I do value what I have in the UK and the west generally, when it comes to education and healthcare etc.

Having said that though, there are many who are actually making a good living in Nigeria. Many are working honest jobs or businesses too, its not all based on thievery. To be honest some people who have left Nigeria for the UK/US have actually seen their class mates who have never left, go further than them in terms of career and money.

We know many have a problem sometimes of cutting corners and criminality in order to get rich quick. It is not all though.
They would like a Bugatti.......but want it within a few months or with one "operation"

Yeah! That is why you can afford the luxury of being idealistically pompous.

That is why you can afford to tell other who's aging parents unpaid pension (that has left them dependent on family) was possibly used live a similar life of luxury by heartless crooks, who would shamelessly flaunt it.

londoner: Well, there is no way of knowing who owns that car. Do we know if it is a man who owns a bank, or a chain of hotels or a footballer?

Do we know? I understand your point though. You are coming from the presumption that it is embezzled money, I am not.

Until we know for sure it is government money, I will not get annoyed over it.

What I asked you was what are the odds?

And YOU KNOW the odds of the person getting the money in a clean way in Nigeria is extremely low. Even if the person is an entreprenuer in Nigeria, the odds of making it that rich in such an environment without crooked practices IS very low. So the reasonable assumption to make is that this is a crook, until proven otherwise. So please cut that pompous "I am better because unlike you I am not 'jealous' or 'annoyed' at people that have wealth".

Most of us are not jealous of people that work for money, we admire them. But watching mudafckers destroy your country and the lives of the citizens to live some moronically ostentatious life IS GROUNDS for fcking annoyance. And it is taking a piss for people like you to ridicule such.

Someone is likely crooked and wants to drive a silly car whith the money he or his father looted, while the average age of dying in the GIANT of AFRICA is 48 years. But you think your priority should be pompous and funky devil's advocacy.

londoner: Gosh......we can see some people here are actually jealous....

Just because someone has much more money than you, there is no need to respond in annoyance.

It is all relative.

Those who can afford a Peugot, buy it.

Those who can afford a Mercedes, buy it.

Those who can afford Bugatti, buy it.

Those who can afford a private plane, buy it.

They are simply cutting their coats according to their size.

The Abuja roads will not cause any problem to this car. Drivers....maybe, but the standard of roads in Abuja in general are of a good standard.

Are you serious?

You honestly think the odds of someone with such money to buy this kind of car in Nigeria getting his money in a legal way, without having looted it from Nigerians, is high and we should not be annoyed?

You serious?

salaksmana: Trust Nigerians now, they sabi impress and oppress, some will even buy it and just pack it there because you can't even drive it on most of our roads.

Utter ediots!

I can never respect people like that.

Dumb is dumb!

[quote author=bomb-war]MUMU See your English
Edjucate and cerebral wastege,,,,,,,,,,,,,Grammarian ,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOL

I rarely fight online. I educate online.

I give them the education they missed out on because of the collapse of Nigerian education system that has made their ability to reason go into cerebral wastege.

I teach them that facts, reasoning and logic is very critical when making a public comment or assertion. And if they are not capable of those skills, they should simply shut up.[/quote]A person that uses textspeak is the person that wants to question my use of English grammar?

Cretin!

Seun: Apart from the price, the running cost of the car per year is $300,000, and that's for normal operation. Every-time it breaks down or needs maintenance, you'll have to ship it back to the manufacturers in Italy. Even if you have the money, you won't enjoy it. So I doubt that such a car could be in Nigeria.

Then only a complete moooron would buy such.

Some people need mental evaluation even though they look normal.

femiolusha: FAMILY PLANNING ALWAYS OPTION!!

I shouldn't be shocked.

Our normal general hospitals are known to be poorly equipped because of corruption even for the privileged Nigerians.

So I expect our mental hospitals to be a complete waste and hence why we allow mental patients roam the streets.

There seems to be no public social care and policy that facilitates getting people to Aro Mental Hospital ASAP.

We really let our Nigerian mental patients down.

.

elmaco: well,Bolt might be waiting for the olympics to explode.
Pls i learnt the Dssc shotlist is out,i hv looked for punchnewspaper , to no avail.Anthony Onaefe DSSC/2012/0576 DELTA STATE Pls pardon me if am not on the right channel
My
mail:onanthonyy@yahoo.com and tel is 08035657219

Anthony, why do you think this forum, talkless of this thread, is the best place you can get assistance on such?

dandoki: Talk about age there's no precedence in this country that indicates that the younger generation would make this country better It seems the younger they come the more they lack in real positive ideas except those that advance the course of mindless greed and unbridled corruption.

You are right on that!

But in reality, in this fast paced, innovative and increasing complex world, I would rather take my chances with a juvenescent person with experience of using modern consulting tools and frameworks to address problems and issues in high level roles, instead of a man close to his grave from an era of dictative mentality.

If I was to choose between Buhari and a more youthful GEJ, I would choose Buhari though.

I would rather have a limited man than a clueless gorilla ruling my country.

But there are tons better than Buhari, so we don't need to restrict our choice to those 2.

werepeLeri: See person wey wan educate person o. See spelling.

Another cretin that wants to question my English.

Go and look at the history of foools like you from my past posts that have tried and have been slaughtered and humiliated.

mukina2: noo never . .i cant fit fight my durrling na

You no see my Boko Haram email?

Check your emails.

mukina2: please where is chicken and shrimp o

We dey fight?

I was JUST about to come on the Thread to say the person that has impressed me most in this championship is Jordi Alba, and then he goes and scores, potentially making my point seem like if I am a party-wargon jumper.

I swear I was JUST about to come on NL to say it.

He is like the classic Brazilian attacking fullbacks like Cafu, R. Carlos and Cicinho.

[quote author=كلورين]Don't mind him, that's all he does on this forum.
I appreciate the fact that you are not insulting him in return.
He likes to fell he's this Mr intelligent
How could someone claiming to be so intelligent be so immature.
This is a free world and everybody has a freedom to what they think, if it kills you then go hug transformer.

Obviously, its people like you that are cowards, issure empty treats and insult people online but in real life nothing![/quote]You are a person!

It is because everyone has a right to think that we have so much strife and atrocities in the world.

If there is a way to get fucktards like you to stop thinking and only follow the instructions and guidance from us in the clerisy then the world would be a far better place.

yam: .

u are mad and crazy.wat is ur priority now?is it the age of the person or development

hope u are enjoying the fresh air?

You are a person!

You are a person for thinking Buhari can, and only Buhari can, resolve our problems today.

You are a person for assuming I support or ever supported Fresh Odour.

Typical reasoning and assumptions of a moronic Nigerian student.

You are a cretinous product of a failed education system.

lacasa: After all the foolish Insults

if not Buhari, name who else has the ability τ̅o do wat is needed

You are a mooron!

Out of all Nigerians, it is only Buhari you think is capable?

Let me be clear on that before I address your stupidity!

queensmith: Are these men trying to defend their gynecomastia?

soon they will be rocking d cups about the gaffe and start telling us it's normal. what a shame.

I am hot, and you are not

And I am buff, and you are walrus

Don't know about you but am handsome

Most girls wanna hold me for ransom

See all the kokolettes in mansion

African Albert Einstein

...............

So don't hate me now because

Mo gbono feli feli be amala to jina gan gan

Don't hate me cause your blubber is huge

Your blubber is huge

Tgirl4real: Did u post dis to show me u hav a history with TV? Or that married men are unhappy? Cos I can't see anywhere u and CC bumped into eachother

Babes, you no read the post of CC that I quoted where she said this about the story of the cheating guy on my flight:

"The only thing I can read from your story is that you travel “chicken or beef meal” cattle class. There is no way you would be in Business or first and still be able to lean over far enough to read what your neighbour is writing on his landing card."

I have never bumped into her, she was just observant from my story that I am too poor to afford first class, hence why I was scared she would come see my claim here that I only fly first,