₦airaland Forum

It has already been established by European eyewitness that visited Lagos in 1603 that the Oba of Benin own Lagos.

Everyone that matters in Lagos from the Oba to his Chiefs acknowledged the Oba of Benin as their father.

At the installation if every Lagos Chief, they perform a traditional salute to the Oba Benin.

There are countless historical documents dating to the 1800s were the British were repeatedly reminded by various waring Lagos princes that the Oba of Benin had the final say on who becomes the Oba of Lagos.

Benin didn't just packed up and leave Lagos, like every other Benin garrison towns, the Benin ruling elites acquired the culture of the locals and blend in as centuries went by.

Benin arrived Lagos in the 1500s and was still very active in Lagos royal affairs till the 1800s, some faceless Nairalanders wants all to believe that all Benin people in Lagos died out and went extinct.

How do you uproot a people that have owned and lived in a place for over 300 years.

The views of these faceless Nairalanders doesn't count. Some of these guys from unknown part of yoruba villages likes to pretend they know the history of Lagos more than real Lagosians and the oba of Benin who European eyewitness told us owned the land in 1603.

Another example of tenants pretending to be landlords.

The Ijebus are from Waddai in Sudan, Awujale.

In an interview with P.M.NEWS in his palace at Ijebu Ode, the monarch, when reminded of his claim in 1983 that the Ijebus are from Waddai in Sudan, said every tribe in the country migrated from somewhere.

Says Oba Adetona: “Let me tell you, there are ways of settlements, even before Oduduwa came to Ile-Ife, Ife was already in existence. All you just have to do is go to history books, you’ll see all these things there.”

Reminded that the statement is often used against the Ijebus with people regarding them as aliens, Awujale described such act as rubbish, saying “how can they use it against the Ijebus? Who is using it against them? What about others? Are they not from other areas before they settled here?”

Oba Adetona who marked his 76 birthday on 10 May, 2010 said no Nigerian has any right to use the source of migration against another as it is evident all over the world that everybody has his or her roots.

In his royal message, the Awujale advised traditional rulers to steer clear of partisan politics as it is obvious that their subjects can never belong to the same political party and a royal father must not seen to be taking sides.

He told P.M.NEWS that his memorable encounter with the first civilian governor of Ogun State, the late Chief Olabisi Onabanjo, in 1983 occupies a chapter in his book that will be launched tomorrow at the grand finale of his coronation anniversary at the Gateway International stadium, Ijebu-Ode.

On the clash between him and the Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunabde Sijuade, Oba Adetona said: “Don’t forget, people try to say we have differences, no, not at all. I am the Awujale of Ijebuland, my instrument of office says so. Ooni is Ooni of Ile-Ife, the instrument of office given to him states so.

“All the claims he is making now are not correct, they are not tenable. The first time the Obas ever met in Yorubaland was in 1937. Before then, they never met, so I think the man is playing politics, trying to over price himself,” Awujale explained.

Asked if they’ve both met of recent, the paramount ruler exclaimed: “Where and for what!?”

He stressed that they were not competing for anything and he has no cause to go to Ile-Ife just as Ooni has no mission in Ijebuland.

christistruth01:
Actually it is the Ooni of Ife that Crowns the Ogunsua of Modakeke


If Ife and Modakeke go back to beating themselves up after the Coronation Ceremony that it is a different matter entirely

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2009/09/ooni-crowns-ogunsua-of-modakeke/amp/

It was a dream come true for the people of Modakeke-Ife, Osun State,        yesterday, when, for the first time, their traditional ruler, the Ogunsua of Modakeke, Oba Francis Adedoyin, was officially crowned by the Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade.

Your post said for the first time. What happened in the previous decades/centuries.

Another reason why Ife and it's cradle of yoruba people story was created in the 1800s, the Awujale of Ijebu is yet to accept that his Ijebu people are from Ife. The Awujale of Ijebu traces the origin of his Ijebu people to Sudan.

Ogane was said to be geographically located East of Benin.

Present day Ife in Osun state is geographically located West of Benin.

Ogane(East)------ Benin --‐--Ife(West)

Europeans visited different part of what is today western Nigeria from Ijebu, Lagos and Oyo, met with Yoruba people between the 1500s to 1826, the Europeans even visited Sultan Bello of Sokoto who had already written a book about the yoruba people in 1824. In all these encounters, never was a great Ife Kingdom that matches Ogane mentioned to the Europeans.

Yoruba people can't just wake one day and try to move East to West and West to East in a desperate attempt to ascribed to Ife, the status it never attained in history, Ife whose influence does not extend to Modakeke.

An interesting perspective on Uhe and Oghene which have been long argued to have existed around the Niger-Benue confluence.

[/i]https://fb.watch/9wltvNkHDF/[i]

TAO11:
The Europeans documented in the early-1800s that the Ọyọ king and the Benin king are descended from the same progenitors; and that these progenitors are of Ife roots & origin.

Keep the lies coming, even you must have realised by now that very few people now take you seriously.

Ryder actually said that earlier Europeans documented Benin history does not support Benin/Ife connection. He said the previous 400 years of documented Benin history by Europeans doesn't support Benin/Ife connection. He further stipulated that if Benin ever had any relationship with Ife, it would have been that they were likely related in antiquity to a source in the Niger Benue confluence, which Ida and the Igala Kingdom was domiciled.

Connection between Benin and Yoruba if any was said to have happened some time before eyewitness historical documentation of Benin history began in the 1400s and the most plausible location for this relationship was said to be the Niger-Benue confluence, not present day Ife in Osun state.

You have got your work cut out, if you think I am one of those you could hoodwinked with your lies and outright misrepresentation of historical accounts.

I repeat, Ryder said, Benin/Ife connection is at variance with the traditions early Europeans collected and documented about Benin in the last 400 years that preceded 1897 and any or if there was any connection between Benin and Ife, it most likely happened before 1400s in the Niger-Benue confluence which experts believe was the cultural melting pot of most southern Nigeria Kingdoms.

Ogane said to be East of Benin matches this location. Ife is in the opposite western direction. Ife is definitely not Ogane, they are in different geographical locations, Ogane is East of Benin while Ife is west of Benin. East of Benin is a geographical locations from Benin, not the direction of prayers as you would like your fellow gullible supporters to believe. The text is below for all to read.

Stop being desperate to claim the Oba of Benin. You should be contended with the Ooni, Alaafin plus 1000 other yoruba Obas.

I earlier promised your yoruba compatriots that I will be soft on you, but you are now seriously pushing your luck.


The documented history of Ogané


1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that to the east of Beny at twenty moons' journey which according to their account, and the short journeys they make, would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king a staff and a headpiece of shining brass, fashioned like a Spanish helmet, in place of a crown and sceptre. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king. All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogané, he never sees the prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as though it were a sacred relic.[/b] As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.

TAO11:
As each day passes, I get convinced that these people of Benin (who are all over social media) actually have mental illness.

E shock you. What's the population of Benin compared to Yoruba. What you call low self esteem is actually self confidence that doesn't require hiding under a large ethnic group to express. Benin people can confidently hold their own without hiding and relying on support from large ethnic group.

TAO11:
You should think before you type actually.

IF indeed there was a Benin dynasty in Idah, then that proves 100% that the homeland of the “Ogane” is certainly NOT at Idah – and the Uhe of Benin traditions is NOT there.

A Benin dynasty in Idah means that a Benin descendant kingdom is in Idah. In other words, the monarch at Idah is surbodinate to the Benin monarch.

But the facts say that the “Ogane” was a superior and suzerain overlord to whom the king of Benin is surbordiate.

So, the Idah monarch is not the Ogane. And Idah is not Uhe.

Cheers.

It is now beyond doubt that the Benin/Ife connection is nothing but political. This connection came into existence after the end of Benin empire/kingdom in late 1890s.

There is absolutely nothing in Benin previous history that connects Benin to Ife by way of customs, tradition or history.

Europeans started visiting and writing about Benin since the 1400s and not once did they experience Benin having any connection with Ife. On the other hand, by the 1500s and on one of the Europeans numerous visits to Benin, they witnessed the Benin Ida war, said in Benin history to have started by Benin chief/s who created misunderstanding between the Attah of Igala (who was must likely a Benin descendant) and the Oba of Benin. Traditions had it that Benin dynasty was in Ida for almost 200 years, early 1500s to late 1600s.

If there was a Benin dynasty in Ida at this period, it makes sense and will not be out of place that there was also Benin shrine/s in Ida in the same period. So sending messages to the chief priest of a Benin shrine in Ida to inform him of the installation of a new Oba in Benin will not be out of place as documented by Europeans in the Ogane part of Benin history.

The old Benin empire/kingdom had several of such shrines. There are still several shrine in present Edo south senatorial district.

Example:

It's generally accepted that the annual Igue festival starts with Oba, then the princes and Princesses and the general population. In reality this is not the case. The Olokun shrine at Urhonigbe celebrates the Igue festival before the Oba of Benin.

The fact that Olokun N' Urhonigbe takes preeminence in Igue festival celebrations does not elevate it above the Oba of Benin, people like yourself who doesn't understand Benin traditions and customs will mistake this simple example as the Olokun N' Urhonigbe is superior. Benin sending a message to a Benin shrine, East of Benin in ancient times to inform the chief priest of the installation of a new Oba in Benin does not makes the chief priest superior to the Oba of Benin.

Throughout Benin history, all Benin shrines, gods and all known Kings have always be inferior to the Oba of Benin who was seen as God in human body or God's human representative on earth before 1897, some still believe this to be true.

The Europeans themselves witnessed in 1826, how the Alaafin, king of the entire yoruba people (kingdom/empire) relied on the Oba of Benin military superiority to keep his yoruba people in line.

Ogane written about in Benin history

The Ogane mentioned in Benin history was said to be located in a direction East of Benin, the closest location that matches the description of Ogane which Benin had a relationship with at this period of Benin history, late 1400s or early 1500s is Ida.

There is nothing in Benin history linking Benin history to present day Ife, Osun state which is geographically located West of Benin, a complete opposite direction from what was written down by the European who visited Benin. The direction and description doesn't fit the location of Ife in Osun state and there is nothing in both yoruba and Benin history to suggest that Benin had anything to do with Ife during this period of 1400s, 1500s, 1600s and 1700s, in fact Ife, Osun state was not mentioned in connection to Benin history until 1897. Some still believe this to be true.

The description of the messager with whiskers that was sent to Ogane as depicted in Benin artefacts matches similar Igala artefacts.

Further evidences dismissing Ife Osun state as Benin ancient Uhe.

Benin traditions agrees that a Benin prince Ekaladerhan who they believe became Oduduwa went to Ife after being banished from Benin.

The Benin Origin of this Benin prince has never been in doubt in Benin traditions, for the avoidance of doubts two successive Oba of Benin have repeatedly made this point clear.

There were no mention of Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan in Benin history between 1400s to 1897, when independent Europeans eyewitnesses documented Benin history.

Even early Yoruba writers such as Ajayi Crowder who returned to Nigeria around 1840 and wrote for several decades until his death in 1890 never wrote seeing Benin having any relationship with Ife.

If Benin had any connection with Ife as late as 1840 to 1890, Ajayi Crowder would have undoubtedly witnessed it and written about it.

Between 1840 to 1888, several burial and coronation of Benin Oba took place in Benin, if Ife had participated in any shape or form, Ajayi Crowder would have documented it.

Benin/Ife connection was the brain child of Samuel Johnson in 1897. No yoruba writers before him connected Benin with Ife.

Benin/Ife connection is a political fabricated story that started in 1897. The very fact that very senior Benin Palace chiefs laughed at the previous Ooni when he quoted Egharevba to support the yoruba position, should have been a clear indication to the yoruba that the Benin traditional council have more facts than they are willing to reveal.

Due to the obvious political and cultural benefits that accrues from it to the Benin traditional institution, there is no need to cause more damage to it than have already done, especially with the fact that millions of yoruba like yourself desperately want it to be true.

Christistruth00:
Are you saying Benin ruled Oke Ado at Ibadan ?


Ado Ekiti was never ruled by Benin
Ado Ekiti People were from Ile Ife

Go and recheck all your History again you are very badly mistaken

Overview of 19th Century Wars and Turbulence on Ado-Ekiti:

No part of Ekiti was spared the agony of imperialist invasions…The rampaging Benin armies sacked Ogotun, Aramoko, some subordinate communities of Ijero, Ado communities such as Are, Afao, Ugbo (now Ilu) Omoba and Agbado and settled a large percentage of the haul of captives therefrom in Ikere, their garrison post.


Benin armies constantly waged wars of external aggressions on Ekitiland and other communities in different parts of old Ondo State in their quest for territorial expansion and control, among others. A good reference point is the Ado-Ikere relations that resulted to Benin pillage and attacks on Ado-Ekiti on several occasion. Olomola (1984:2-3) noted that Benin armies invaded parts of Ado kingdom a few times between 1500 and 1815.. Olomola further asserted that the Ewi actually devise a strategy of evacuating his capital city so that the Benin armies would not disturb the Ewi and the rest of his people in their new site.
Odo which was, before the Benin invasion a town of considerable size, broke up as the people sought the safety of rocky and forest recesses and Uyin and Igede lost part of their population in their fight against Benin in 1815.

The development of the Ado Kingdom was seriously affected by external invasion. These resulted in series of demographic upheavals with settlements constantly moved from one site to another. The most serious of these external invasions were by the "Edo" of Benin. They attacked and destroyed many settlements…in the Ado Kingdom… The Edos were invited by Ogoga, the third time the Edos were so invited to settle the quarrel between Ado and Ikere. The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado. Ado would then be afraid of Ikere. The Benin soldiers came and sent words to the Ewi Aroloye… He refused to surrender. He did not in any way show that he was not ready for fight. Every town or village under him except Ijan were prepared to fight…


Every town or village under him (Ewi) except Ijan were prepared to fight… The Benin soldiers stormed Igbara-Odo and Ilawe and took them. At this time, Ado town had been vacated. Aroloye took the people to a place called Oke Oko Axis between Ifaki and Iworoko. Most of the gods Ado worshipped on that side: Olua at Eyio, Obanifon at Esure and Are, Ogbese and Orisala at Iworoko. The soldiers pitched their camps near Uyin (Iyin)…Ogbesi Okun, the then Oluyin …was conquered and killed. They proceeded to Igede, Awo and Esure and took them. The inhabitants of Igede then uder Okiribiti were driven in a north-easternly direction to a place called Oke Asha…Edo troops then marched to Iworoko…The soldiers entered Are…The same fate befell Afao. They were all taken to Ikere. The soldiers moved to Igbemo …entered Igbo-Omoba (now Ilu-Omoba)…The soldiers left Aisegba for Agbado and without delay took it and evacuated the people. Agbado was the last place under the Ewi. With the conquest, of Agbado, the soldiers seemed to have finished their job…’

Ewi Idagunmodo (1696-1710), Ewi Okinbaloye Aritawekun (1710-1722), Ewi Amono Ola (1722-1762), Ewi Afunbiowo (1762-1781), Ewi Akulojuorun (1781-1808), Ewi Aroloye (1808-1836) who reigned at Ado but were attacked successively by Benin hordes…‘During the reign of Ewi Aroloye, Ado-Ewi’s kingdom witnessed massive dislocation across the terrain as town dwellers and villagers ran for safety in different directions. Many of the captives from Iworoko, Are, Afao, Ugboomoba (now Ilumoba) and Agbado were taken to Ukere by Benin invaders’.

TAO11:
•
See samuk trying to escape. Looking for “easy” targets.

I’m still waiting on you for the first-hand reports from an eyewitness who regards Benin as an “empire”.

This shouldn’t be too difficult naw. Moreover, we have seen such eyewitness reports for Oyo.

Hurry up and bring one of such for Benin.
•

---

As per the alleged agreements you’re claiming I have with you, the link below shows where I shredded you. And you didn’t dare reply the comment.

https://www.nairaland.com/6697675/power-oba-benin-wield-past/15#109495165


The Ọɣọni of Ifẹ no longer have his empire as at the 1820s when the Europeans visited Oyo-Ile.

The Alaafin is the Yoruba monarch who had an empire from the late-1500s to the 1830s.

In other words, he is the Yoruba monarch who had an empire as at when Clapperton, et al. visited Oyo-Ile.

For this reason (being the one whom they observed as the head of an empire), they named him as the king of the Yorubas.

The Ọɣọni’s supremacy over all other Yorùbá kings is primordial, ancient, long-standing, and permanent.

See the three attachments below in turns for a trend of the Ọɣọni’s supremacy over the course of history.

(A) An older Alaafin bowing very intently to a younger Ọɣọni. ~ 2018.

(B) The Ọɣọni rightfully recognized as the head of all Yoruba monarchs, including the Alaafin. ~ 1903.

(C) The “Realm of the Ọɣọni” (viz. Regnum Orguene) as written across the Nigeria region. ~ 1513.

Cheers.

Cc: Christistruth00

Everyone can now appreciate the reason I have always insisted on verifiable eyewitness historical accounts, because a lot of fairytales are made up in the absence of eyewitness historical accounts.

What you just wrote up there can't be verified because yoruba eyewitness historical accounts only began in 1826.

You claimed that the Ooni had an empire pre 1500s and the Alaafin took over and dominated the yoruba people between 1500s to 1800.

If indeed the Ooni had an empire pre 1500s, it would have come into contact with Benin whose eyewitness historical accounts had already began, mind you I am applying the same standard of verifiable historical accounts to Benin history, not just limiting it to Yoruba only.

Benin Europeans eyewitness historical accounts

The various Europeans, Portuguese, Dutch, British etc, that had contact with Benin for almost 400 years before 1826 never recorded Benin having any relationship or traditions with Ife, Ooni, Oranmiyan or Oduduwa, infact none of these names appeared in Benin history of over 400 years, 1400s to mid-1800s

I challenged you to show the readers where Ooni, Oranmiyan and Oduduwa appeared in Benin history as late as 1888, before the reign of Oba Ovonramwen, the last independent Oba of Benin.

In a situation when traditions don't agree, the best way of resolving issues is to call for eyewitnesses to the events.

Both Benin and Ife traditions don't agree on the personage of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

All Obas of Benin after Ovonramwen who have spoken on the Origin of Oduduwa have consistently maintained that he was the banished Benin prince Ekaladerhan.

Yoruba traditions in the other hand disagrees that Oduduwa was a Benin prince, preferring to rather trace his origin to the middle eastern countries of Saudi Arabia or Egypt. The recent 2010 and slightly earlier attempts to say Oduduwa was a native of Ife is not yet mainstream, so wouldn't dwell on it.

Eyewitness historical accounts of Oduduwa.


There are no eyewitness historical accounts of Oduduwa. Infact, Oduduwa was variously represented in yoruba traditions as being a deity, female, myth etc, it was not until 1897, 71 years after the first Europeans eyewitnesses visited Oyo that Samuel Johnson presented Oduduwa as the father of the then yoruba nation. Mind you the concept of yoruba nation keeps evolving with more people being added to the conglomerate daily.

The first Europeans that visited Oyo where never told anything about yoruba people coming from one source or Oduduwa, the first hand account the Europeans collected from Sultan Bello who was one of earliest writer of yoruba history in 1824 thus traces yoruba people back to Saudi Arabia but it never mentioned Oduduwa.

Personification of Oduduwa

It's save to say that a human face was put on Oduduwa by Samuel Johnson around 1897, before then, Oduduwa was anything but human.

1897 is also when the fairytale of Oduduwa began to enter Benin history, it was absent and missing in the previous over 400 years of historically documented Europeans eyewitnesses accounts.

Yoruba people are quick to point to the Benin historian Egharevba to help their case, but even Egharevba was silent on Oduduwa origin, he was consistent with the Benin Palace traditions that he was at Uhe/Ife when Benin chief came calling. The silence of Egharevba on Oduduwa was what made late Oba Erediawa intervened and set the Benin Palace traditional records straight by letting the world know that Oduduwa according to Benin traditions was the banished prince Ekaladerhan. Oba Ewuare have since reiterated his father and ancestors position.

Possibility of having multiple Oduduwa in history .

Oduduwa according to Benin traditions was a Benin prince and according to yoruba traditions and depending on who you speak to traces Oduduwa to Egypt, Saudi Arabia or recently Ife.

So, Oduduwa started his career as a god, goddess, myth, a native of Benin, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and most recent Ife.

There is another historical narrative in Benin that traces Benin ancient Uhe to around the Igala Kingdom of Ida not present day Ife in Osun state.

The late 1400s or 1500s Ogane in Benin history that mentioned Benin connections to a priestly Kingdom in the east and also the Igala traditions that acknowledged that there was a Benin dynasty in Ida for nearly 200 years starting in the 1500s supports this second school of taught that Benin ancient Uhe connections was with the middle belt not Western Ife which is the opposite direction to what was documented by the European eyewitness.

Summary:

1. There are no historical eyewitness accounts to support Benin/Ife connection.

2. Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ooni are not mentioned in Benin history between 1400s to 1890.

3. Benin traditions and yoruba traditions disagree on Oduduwa origin.

4. Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts began in 1826. Nothing about Oduduwa as being human and father of yoruba people was documented until 1890s.

5. Both Benin and Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts didn't mention Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

6. The Alaafin is the king of yoruba people that can be verified by Europeans eyewitnesses accounts.

7. In the absence of any eyewitness historical accounts to support the Ooni's position as king of the yoruba people, his position remains a politically created and appointed position.

8. Although, this is a yoruba problem but the Alaafin is the one that eyewitness historical accounts will always remember as the true king of the yoruba people before he was politically shortchanged.

Christistruth00:
Read Slowly

sir alfred moloney
British Colonial Governor of Lagos
1890

I deal with eyewitness historical accounts when they are available. Your Sir Alfred Moloney 1890 hearsay accounts fall short of my requirements.

Sir Moloney 1890 accounts is over 60 years after the first Europeans who visited Oyo wrote what they saw, Sir Moloney wasn't on ground in Oyo in 1826.

If you have been following the debate between myself and Tao11 so far, you will realised that we both agreed that the first Europeans who visited yoruba land met the Alaafin of Oyo as the king of the yoruba people and entered a treaty with him.

You can now see that your current Ooni who is pretending all over the place as the most senior king of the yoruba people was a political creation not backed by the eyewitness historical accounts that have been presented so far.

It was the Alaafin according to TAO11, the British heard about in England as the king of the yoruba people and kingdom, not the Ooni.

When the British arrived Oyo for the first time in 1826, they met the Alaafin as the king of yoruba people but the Alaafin relied on the Oba of Benin for military assistance to rule his kingdom.

You can now see that the Ooni is a politically created spiritual/yoruba leader.

TAO11:
We have seen eyewitness report which mentions in clear unequivocal terms that not only was Oyo great, that it was indeed an empire. And the words was spelt out.

Can you now show the whole world where Benin was named as an “empire” by a first hand report of some eyewitness observer?

Yes let’s also see the word “e-m-p-i-re” spelt out. This shouldn’t be difficult naw. Or is it?

Cheers.

Benin greatness is self evidence and world acclaimed. The very fact that the Alaafin of Oyo relied on Benin troops is enough evidence of Benin superiority.

America will not sent to Nigeria for troops to help with their internal crisis, it's Nigeria that will always seek military assistance from America. This is how empire works.

Christistruth00:
Tao11 don’t mind Samuk

The Alaafin Clapperton met had 400 wives alone
not including his Chiefs , Slaves, Children , Servants , Palace Officials and the Slaves,wives , Soldiers , Officials and Children of his High Chiefs and other Royal Princes with their individual Compounds families and Slaves

Does that alone sound like a village?

We have not yet included the People of Oyo and all of the Country of Dahomey ( Benin Repubic today ) that he ruled over
We have not included Atakpame and Aledjo areas of Togo o !

The Alaafin Of Oyo ruled over more Territory and People than the Oba of Benin
The Alaafins Territory reached the Ewe and Ga of Ghana


Every time the Army Of Oyo marched out to War the Equvalent of a Town followed them to the War Camp

I know TAO11 sometimes needs this kind of moral support, but right now your intervention is a distraction.

You are distracting her from the onerous mission of trying to save and savage what's left of the paperweight, 1826 history and fairytales of the Yoruba nation from the fineness, wit, the lion claws and the eagle eyes of the ever sagacious Samuk.

The so called Oyo empire which the history of the yoruba nation rest upon is on the line and this poor girl, TAO11 put herself forward to try and contain the damage with very little material to work with considering that Oyo European eyewitness accounts began in 1826.

The worst part is that this European 1826 eyewitness account began with the so called Oyo empire and it's king the Alaafin begging the Oba of Benin to send him troops to help put an end to his rebellious yoruba subjects. Not a very good way for European eyewitness account to begin after waiting for nearly 400 years to catch up with Benin.

Same European eyewitness accounts began in Benin nearly 400 years earlier and to add insult to injury, Benin had already sent an ambassador to Europe 200 years before Oyo and the Alaafin saw the white man for the first time in 1826 and over 200 years after the Oba of Benin annexed and owned a large frontier town called Lagos.

I know some of you her supporters and kinsmen are feeling the pains of her beating, but be assured, I won't beat her too much this time, because I wouldn't want her to go into metal and psychological meltdown, because we very much need her around here to continue to entertain us with her lies and offer herself as a punchbag for those willing to treat her lies.

No matter what TAO11 submit, the fact that Oyo European eyewitness historical accounts began in 1826 will continue to stick out like a sore thumb and an albatross that can't be surmounted.

Summary for the benefit of those that didn't have the patience to read TAO11 and TAO12 long epistles.

1. We both agreed that 1826 was the first time the Europeans visited Oyo and the first time the Alaafin of Oyo and his people saw the white man.

2. We both agreed that when the Europeans visited Oyo in 1826, they met an Alaafin who was facing rebellion that his weak army couldn't defeat.

3. We both agreed that the Alaafin that the Europeans met in 1826 requested for troops from the Oba of Benin to assist him and his weak army.

4. We both agreed that as of 1603, the Oba of Benin was the owner of a large frontier town called Lago (Lagos) which was populated by soldiers and their commanders who send reports back to Benin daily.

Point of Disagreement:

I argued that what the Europeans met on ground in 1826 in Oyo wasn't an empire and at best a very weak kingdom.

TAO11 argued it was an empire because the Europeans recorded being told so by someone else, not that they witnessed it themselves. What the Europeans witnessed was a weak kingdom whose Alaafin had sent for troops from Benin.

In conclusion and without conceding, if TAO11 insist that Oyo had an empire in 1826 that was witnessed by the Europeans, this Oyo empire was very weak that it relied on Benin military strength.

I believe all will agree that this is a very fair assessment of the debate so far.

TAO11:
There is no single European who ventured deep into the forested interior of west or central African during the periods you mentioned. They always do not go too far from the Atlantic coast.

The first time they dared to penetrate deep into the forest was in the 1800s.

And guess what happened when they did. Oyo is one of the first great kingdoms they hastened to visit.

They had only been hearing tells in England about the great Oyo king whose city is the capital of an empire.

There is a difference between hearing about a supposed empire and actually witnessing one. You deceptively left out the part that Hugh Clapperton said that what he saw on ground in Oyo was not as great as they were told in England. Hugh Clapperton simply met savages who in his own words were capable of killing themselves out of existence if drastic measures were not taken.

Hugh Clapperton and the Lander brothers never reported seeing Oyo empire under the Alaafin first hand, only that they heard about a supposed great kingdom which didn't matched what they witnessed on ground.

The Alaafin and Oyo the Europeans met in 1826 was a village that relied on Oba of Benin military powers. If you insist that it was an empire, then it was an empire that relied on Benin military strength.

Hugh Clapperton 1826 accounts.....

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute


This is the Lagos under Benin the Europeans visited in 1603.

In 1603, Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer, a German surgeon, aboard a Dutch merchant ship, visited Lagos. According to his accounts, Lagos was a large frontier town surrounded by a strong fence and inhabited by "none but soldiers and four military commanders, who behave in a very stately manner."

The Lagos visited by Ulsheimer and his trading colleagues nearly four centuries ago was in many ways highly developed. Each day its four commanders came together as a court and each day two envoys were dispatched to take decisions back to their ruler in Benin. To do so, Ulsheimer wrote, was a common practice in all towns under the suzerainty of Benin…

--- "Josua Ulsheimer" cited in R. Smith, Kingdoms of the Yoruba (1969), p.74.

TAO11:
Now you’ve been disgraced over your claim that Oyo can’t be far from coast and also near the Niger River.

I have demonstrated that Oyo was indeed far from the coast and also near the Niger River. See the map again for refresher.
———-

You’ve also been disgraced over your claim that some Europeans were traveling up and down the River for 400 years, i.e. from the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, to 1700s and 1800s.

The first time ever when an European sailed the River, from source to termination, was the year 1830.

Seeing that you have been disgraced, you now want to stylishly backtrack. Lol.

You now want to change mouth to another issue, i.e., that Europeans who have been sailing the River didn’t find any Oyo around near the River. Lol.

Even with this new one, let’s see below if you won’t be disgraced again as in your above earlier comment.


You must really think you’re talking to some random Bini dullards at Ogbe street in Benin city.

Now to disgrace you again:
Mungo Park’s first travel to the Niger River was over land; from Gambia to Ségou in Mali (marked “x” on the map). See attached map. See also attached note.

Furthermore, his actual sailing on the River was not in 1795-6. Lol. It was in the year 1805. See note attached

Moreover, he couldn’t sail the River’s complete length because as he sailed on and approached from Mali to Niger, he and his team drowned at Bussa (point “b” on the map) as they entered the Nigeria region.

Death didn’t allow Mungo Park get to or sight the Oyo area o. Chai! . Lol

Get a book and read, you won’t listen. Now see how you’re being humiliated back and forth on top simple ‘current affairs’.

And how did you get 400 years between 1795 & 1806 samuk? Help yourself and read a book today.

Of course the Lander brothers are the first Europeans to sail the River from source to termination in 1830.

And of course Richard Lander, et al. certainly stayed at Oyo. In fact, they were at Oyo prior to the exploration of the River.

Their great description of this empire may leave you in tears of jealousy. For example, Clapperton (who was in Oyo with his servant Richard Lander) writes:

“We first began inquiring after his health. I then told him that I was the king of England's servant, sent by his majesty to beg his acceptance of a present, which then lay before me; that we had heard his (the king of Youriba's) name mentioned in England as a great king; that we now experienced the truth of the report; that three white men, two of them my companions, and one a servant, had died on the road; that another of my companions was at Dahomey, to ask the king of that country to allow him a passage through his dominions.”
~ Journal of a Second Expedition, (1829), p. 38.

Now you know that the Alaafin was known in Europe as a great king (by the greatest EUrOpEaN king of the time) even before the EUrOpEaNs visited there.

Oh wait, you need the word E-M-P-I-R-E spelt out and not just the wowing greatness? Not to worry. Lol.

“From that period a mallam has never ventured to enter the gates of Katunga¹, and the Mohammedan religion was soon forgotten by the people. They have, however, penetrated beyond the empire of Yariba², two Houssa holy men, having found their way to Jannah, the town in which Dr. Morrison, it is said, died and was buried, and three others to Badagry; …”
~ Richard Lander, “Records of Captain Clapperton’s Last Expedition to Africa,” Vol. 1., (1830), pp. 279-280.

^1,2 “The city of Eyeo (in Houssa language, Katunga), the capital of Yourriba …”
~ Journal of a Second Expedition, (1829), pp. 58.


Read a book, read a book you won’t listen. Now see how you’ve been embarrassing yourself back to back.


Cheers.

The Europeans were active in west Africa from 1400s to 1800s hundreds. They travelled the Niger River and the Atlantic coast at various times but there are no first hand account from them of seeing Oyo empire.

Clapperton didn't say he saw an empire, what he said he saw in 1826 was an Alaafin who said he was facing rebellion and requested military assistance from Benin.

The empire you deceptively squeeze into your reply was not seen by Hugh Clapperton you referenced/cited.

Show us one European from the numerous Europeans that were active in west Africa from the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s that had a first hand account of seeing Oyo empire.

I simply need a European eyewitness account of Oyo empire. You don't built and hide an empire in a box. Early Europeans heard about all important west Africa kingdoms and visited them starting from late 1400s. Oyo wasn't visited until 1826, this shows how important it was. Itsekiri, Lagos under Benin and Benin itself were visited repeatedly centuries before 1826, same century the European powers dethroned strong and uncooperative Africa kings that pave way for them to divide the kingdoms amongst themselves.

Oyo and Alaafin were only too willing to submit themselves to the white man who the Alaafin confirmed they saw for the first time in 1826. According to the Alaafin, they have been hearing about the white man who have been visiting Benin for almost 400 years but have never seen one. So the Alaafin was only too happy to receive them in 1826.

If you must reply, simply present European eyewitness account of visiting Oyo empire, otherwise, you can throw in the towel, take a bow and go.

AreaFada2:
The guy is a clown. He thinks he can order anyone around to do his bidding.
The Igbo/Yoruba collabo over Benin Empire denial is very sweet, isn't it? Such collabo never leads to no good. Even way back Zik and Awo could not callobo to take 9ja forward.

They will soon be at each other's throat over Tinubu's presidency, IPOB/ESN and their other divisive antics. Their tribal divisiveness is what they want to spread to Edoid people. Failed mission.

I just come to laugh at them now and then these days.

These guys are jokers. He wants reference from you when I have been waiting almost 2 years for him to show me the reference to his claim that Zik's account of 1930s were different from his 1970 autobiography.

TAO11:
Your comments always make me wonder how messed up your mental health must be. Lol.

You lie to yourself and still fight your mind to believe your own lies. Isn’t that insanity?

Or could it be that you’re simply targeting your fellow Binis (the very dull ones who of course are a majority) who do not know their left from their right?

——————
Back To The Matter:
The detailed and clear map of W-Africa below clears up what you’re pretending to be unaware of.

(1) On one hand I had said, the old-Oyo (i.e. the great Oyo empire) was deep in the interior and is no where near the coast of the Atlantic ocean.

(2) On the other hand, I also mentioned that the old-Oyo (the great Oyo empire) was deep in the interior so much that it was not far from the Niger River.

You appear to give the impression that these two are contradictory. I think it’s now safe to conclude that you love to be publicly humiliated.

And I say this because even a person with a braincell should know that the River Niger is not confined only to southern Nigeria.

As you can see from the map attached below, it runs from SierraLeone to Guinea, and through Bamako and Tombouctou in Mali, through Niamey in Niger all the way to Lokoja and Asaba in Nigeria, and ending in the Atlantic Ocean.

Having spoon fed you on that, it should be obvious to you now how old-Oyo (the great Oyo empire) was far from the Atlantic coast (see my label coast) and at the same time close to the Niger River (see my red-dot label of old-Oyo in the same map).

LMAO! Which Europeans traveled the Niger River up and down for 400 years?? No European did lad.

You have to start reading books on history so you can avoid public humiliations like this one. Okay?

Good boy. Cheers.

Mungo Park was a Scottish explorer of West Africa. After an exploration of the upper Niger River around 1796, he wrote a popular and influential travel book titled Travels in the Interior Districts of Africa in which he theorized the Niger and Congo merged to become the same river.



Mungo Park explored the interior of Africa along the Niger River around 1796 and didn't see Oyo empire that was supposed to be not too far from the Niger River according to your claim.

in 1830. Richard Lander and his brother became the first Europeans to follow the course of the Niger from source to ocean.

The lander brothers also didn't see any Oyo empire you claimed to be close to the Niger River.

....Hugh Clapperton continued his journey, and, passing through the Yoruba country, in January 1826 he crossed the Niger at Bussa, the spot where Mungo Park had died twenty years before

Hugh Clapperton did reach Oyo and visited the Alaafin of Oyo in 1826, what Clapperton saw was a small village and not an empire. The Alaafin even told Clapperton that he had sent to Oba of Benin for military assistance to help end the rebellion he was facing from his neighbours....other smaller villages around him.

The entire length of the Niger River from source to ocean including the interior was travelled by Europeans explorers in the 1700s and 1800s and didn't witness an Oyo empire.

TAO11:
In sum, your Ọba didn’t rule Eko. Nor did any Bini. You actually wish they did.

Your Ọbas ruled their Benin city and its surrounding Edoid villages and towns. If that’s what an empire is to you, then good for you all.

So the Benin military garrison and military barracks filled with soldiers that was stationed in Lagos in the 1500s and witnessed by the Europeans in 1602 was for what purpose.....oh maybe to admire the Atlantic ocean

In the 1500s, tradition had it that Benin dynasty was ruling in Ida, middle belt Nigeria, this is the reason that the Ogane mentioned in Benin history in the 1400s and Uhe points to this location not your Ife, Osun state 1800s political fabrication. Same 1500s Benin already expanded her territories to Lagos and all important villages in between were controlled by Benin in one shape or form.

We are still waiting for eyewitness historical accounts of any Europeans that witness your fictitious Oyo empire.

TAO11:
(2) The location of old-Oyo (i.e. farther north and not far from the Niger River) had become uninhabited and abandoned since the early/mid-1800s.

(3) Your photo is thus not of the imperial palace of the Oyo Empire (i.e. old-Oyo) as the empire ended and its location was abandoned since the 1800s.

TAO11:
The other great and in fact greater kingdoms (i.e. Ifẹ, Ọyọ, Borno, et al.) are deep in the interior & no where near the Atlantic coast where the Portuguese carried on their trading activities with natives.

The lies are layed out for discerning minds.

This liar once told everyone that the reason the Europeans didn't visit her fictitious Oyo empire was because is was deep in the forest.

Forgetting this lie, she can back to tell us that old Oyo was not far from Niger River.

Again, why didn't the Europeans who travelled the Niger River up and down for over 400 years not seen this Old Oyo empire.

RedboneSmith:
The current British dynasty came from Germany. Doesn't mean Britain is under a German 'empire'.

Spain is ruled by the Bourbon dynasty which originally came from France. Doesn't mean Spain is/was under a French empire. A ruling line can come from elsewhere without necessarily being a tributary of the place they came from. Hope you can understand this.

The current British dynasty that came from Germany didn't forced themselves on the British people, they came through marriage of European princes and Princesses. This was the practice in Europe to preserve the royal bloodline, hence most European monarchs are related.

The same cannot be said about Benin who took most places by force, similar to Roman empire and the British empire who also took Nigeria and other countries by force and installed British Governor Generals.

.....the Aji Ata (or Bini) Dynasty, under which a total of six Bini-speaking Atas ruled, had forced itself on the Igala Kingdom in 1507 AD

according to R. A. Sargent, commenced in 1687 AD, the same year the reign of the Bini Dynasty came to an end. The influx of the Jukuns, who had broken away from the Kwararafa Confederacy, occurred between 1597 AD and 1627 AD. At this time, the Aji Ata (or Bini) Dynasty, under which a total of six Bini-speaking Atas ruled, had forced itself on the Igala Kingdom in 1507 AD, forcing Ata Ọgáláà Eri to proceed on a sudden self-exile. It should also be noted that the Bini Dynasty was itself preceded by an earlier dynasty, the Ata Eri (or Igala) Dynasty. The findings of a 21-year research undertaken by the Catherine Acholonu International Research Centre, Abuja revealed that “Ata Eri was the ancestor and father of the Igalas and the founder of the still-surviving, ancient lineage of Atta Kings of the Igala nation.” Ata Ọgáláà Eri had succeeded Àtá Àtá-Ógwū, after whom the Àtá-Ógwū Hill (Ójúwó Átōgwu) on the outskirts of Ida town was named.

(ii) THE AJI-ATTAH (ATA) (OR BINI) DYNASTY

In the year, 1507, Ọba Ọ̀kpámẹ̀ Ọ̀zọ́luà of Benin ordered his son, Aji-Attah (Ata), to lead a segment of the Bini army against Ata Ọgáláà Erí at Ida, which prompted a sudden journey of the incumbent into self-exile, first, to the southern part of the Benue Basin, then later, to Nri in the present-day Anambra State. The Aji-Attah (or Benin) Dynasty, after one hundred and eighty years at Ida, was finally brought to an end by the influence of the Kwararafa traders-cum-warriors who were pouring into what, today, is referred to as the Igala Kingdom, which, according to Sargent and Miles Clifford, had been occupied by the “Okpoto tribesmen.”

Those fooling themselves, would like to believe that Benin empire didn't go beyond former mid Western region.

If an empire occupied Lagos in present west to Ida in the middle belt, what was left in Southern Nigeria.

RedboneSmith:
PS: I actually thought you were smarter and better-educated than the likes of Gregyboy and Samuk, but this response illustrates very clearly that all of you are connected to the same mother brain, because what is this off-point nonsense?

Provide the quote from Landolphe, and you went off and started ranting about Asari Dokubo and Ijaw having Igbo slaves, and Olaudah Equiano. What is the connection with the request made? Is Asari Landolphe? Are Ijaws the people of Benin and Ughoton?

Like I already said, it would have been better for you if you had just ignored and saved some face.

You shouldn't have mentioned me. You are the one that have been claiming that Zik wrote something in the 1930s which was different from his 1970 autobiography, despite my repeated request, have you provided the evidence. Your anti-Benin antics is very well known here.

SirNewtonNG:
Infact scrap that! I'll spoon feed you.

This one doesn't know what he is talking about. I really hope it's not jealousy driving you into absurdities. I really hope so.

(1) First of all, the Archibald Dalzel you mentioned actually documented that the powerful kingdom of Dahomey was under Oyo's imperial control and domination (paying annual tributes all along) until when Oyo began having internal issues. This lasted up to about 100 years.

(2) The statement from Archibald that Oyo paid tribute to Nupe around 1791 (during Oyo's imperial height) is a statement he obtained from the Dahomeans (who were under Oyo).

The statement is not found in Nupe traditions, neither is it found in Oyo's traditions. It is a swipe by Dahomey against its Oyo overlord. it has no corroboration in the traditions of the actual parties involved (i.e. 1700s Nupe and 1700s Oyo).



(3) Apart from the well-known Archibald Dalzel who wrote about Oyo's imperial domination of the Dahomey region in the 1700s, another European who wrote about Oyo's activities in the region in the 1600s is the Dutch Merchant, William Bosman. He has the following to say about one of Oyo's attack in the region.

"These being all Horsed, and a warlike Nation, in a short time mastered half of the King of Ardra's territories, and made such a slaughter among his subjects, that the Number of the Dead being innumerable, was commonly express'd by saying, "They were like the Grains of Corn in the Field ..." This Nation strikes such a terror into all the circumjacent Negroes, that they can scarce hear them mention'd without trembling: And they tell a thousand strange Things of them."

You can't nitpick what you like, you are right by saying that what the Europeans wrote about Oyo before their actual visit to Oyo in 1824 were hearsay, not eyewitness historical accounts.

The first time the Europeans visited Oyo and the Alaafin of Oyo was 1824, the Europeans met an Alaafin who was facing rebellion from his yoruba neighbours. The Alaafin told the Europeans that he has requested military assistance from the Oba of Benin.

There is no historical records of any eyewitness that actually witnessed Oyo being an empire.

There are simply no evidence that Oyo was an empire, if it was, the Europeans who were very active in west Africa between 1400-1800 would have visited for first hand account. The Europeans visited Lagos which was under Benin in 1602, they visited Itsekiri, Benin and other notable kingdoms and empire but never visited Oyo.

Oyo and Ife are just yoruba creations which can't be found in world history until 1824.

1824 is when yoruba eyewitness historical records began proper, know this and know peace.

christistruth01:
Happy New year !!

This is your fried rice


CC Udele1, Blessedom,Tao11, render1,Olu317,,Samuk,gregboy,Areafada,Macof,

The rice is very colourful. Hopefully it will be as delicious as it looks. Happy New year.

These people think empire is what you build and hide from others.

TAO11:
(2) The location of old-Oyo (i.e. farther north and not far from the Niger River) had become uninhabited and abandoned since the early/mid-1800s.

(3) Your photo is thus not of the imperial palace of the Oyo Empire (i.e. old-Oyo) as the empire ended and its location was abandoned since the 1800s.

If it was true that Oyo had an empire whose location was not far from the Niger River before 1800s;

1. Why was it not visible to European explorers and visited by the various Europeans that continuously used this route to visit Benin empire for 400 years (1400s - 1800s).

2. Why are there no independent European eyewitnesses to this Oyo empire that ended in 1800s.

3. Not far from this location is the body of water called the bight of Benin. This water was named the bight of Benin by Europeans because Benin was the most significant empire that existed in this area.

4. The so called Oyo empire was created in 1800s.

5. You forgot that you once argued that the reason that the Europeans didn't visit Oyo empire was because it was in the hinterland and the Europeans were afraid of mosquitoes, you said the Europeans only visited kingdoms and empire not far from the coast.

6. If you are now claiming that old Oyo empire was not far from Niger River, why was it not visited or visible to European explorers.

7. The first time the Europeans visited Oyo was 1824 and they saw no empire but a small village whose ruler, the Alaafin was being harassed by his neighbours with the Alaafin calling on the Oba of Benin for military help.

One thing is to lie, another thing is to be able to defend these lies.

The truth is Oyo was a village that dominated other smaller villages and people around her. Some of these people have been annexed and are today comfortable with their Oyo yoruba identity.

The myth of yoruba coming from Ife was created in the 1800s to accommodate anyone that want to be part of the larger Oyo family.

Oyo is yoruba and those that want to became yoruba goes through the Ife, Oduduwa myths, this is why the Ijebu claim of coming from Sudan causes disaffection amongst yoruba.

macof:
Lmao 2x larger than Rome metropolitan and where is the evidence? Where's the measurement?

BTW there is no Benin kingdom... It does not exist anymore.
So you can't talk about the size and administration of the old kingdom itself and tag it remnants.. If you want to talk about spread of language and Ethnic homeland today then that is a different case you are bringing in.

And if we want to go by this new logic of language and Ethnic Identity you are trying to bring, do you realise we would have to include all the elements of roman ethnic identity that has evolved over the last 14/15 centuries?
The languages of French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian etc are all derived from Latin the language of the ancient Romans. The very idea of Western civilization in form of writing, architecture, political system etc even the Catholic Church and even the Eastern Orthodox Church

Because how is it even fair to compare in this logic, "remnants" of a Rome that fell in the 5th century with Benin that fell in the 19th century. 1,400 years later

You have no case.

Remnant of old Rome is mostly confined to Vertical City. Benin speaking areas hasn't changed since time immemorial. Old Benin empire is much larger than the core Benin speaking area of Edo south which your comrade tagged the remnant of old Benin empire.

I repeat, what remains of old Benin empire as described by your yoruba brother is bigger than what remains of the Roman empire.

Ologbo147:
They are part of Benin metropolitan, Benin is larger than Rome cry me a river,the definition of a metropolitan is not up to you, it is what it is

Alba3:
Benin remains the smallest kingdom down South with about 5 LGAs

Most of these guys are not smart. Above was the statement made by one of them, equating what remained of old Benin empire to Edo south senatorial district, even though he made a mistake with the numbers of local government areas but it was clear he was referring to Edo south senatorial Zone.

I responded by saying that this Benin he described is still bigger than what remains of Rome. Edo south is factually bigger than what remains of Rome but the not so clever Macof wants to reduce Benin to Oredo and if possible to King's Square in his bigoted imagination.

The Benin people don't need faceless bigoted Nairalanders to validate what is world acknowledged achievements of the old Benin empire.

Benin made history and it was recognised and recorded by the world. Benin history is still being taught across the globe by reputable institutions, Benin history transcends Nigeria tribal politics.

If Macof was not too intellectually lazy, the edition of the Guinness book of records that acknowledged the Benin wall/moat as the world greatest monument pre mechanical era is all over the internet, various scientific institutions across world have this information on their website site but he still wants to be spoon-fed. Imagine him calling the presenter of a UK television quiz programmes clown because he thinks the UK is like Nigeria were mediocrity reigns and most people blinded by tribal and religious sentiments.

They started with the Oba of Benin is a yoruba lie, when that did not succeed they try to sell Oyo as an empire and when this too did not hold water they are trying to rubbish the world acclaimed historical achievements of the Benin empire.

Their pains and jealousy oozes to high heavens.

UltraSphinx:
Oh!
But capitulating to some rag-tag bands of Portuguese f*ggots - with minimal resistance, is one of the qualities of an empire right?

Empires rise and fall but Benin didn't fall to the Portuguese, go and learn your history.

All great world recognised empires from Greece, Rome, Egypt, Mongol, ottoman, Benin, etc, came to an end but Oyo is not on the list of world recognised empire/kingdom.

Oyo is a yoruba lie told within Nigeria.

Alba3:
Before I would have taken my time to read and give counter replies to every line of byour lies but I don't do such to unrepentant revisionists again.

Why no go to Ife or Sokoto to tell them the Ọọni or Sultan not the children of their forefathers?

Yet another reply from someone that claims that he doesn't read my posts .

To show the political nature of your photograph, the Alaafin which the British met on ground in 1824 as the king of the yoruba people was not even invited to the gathering, meanwhile the North got multiple seats.

Yoruba originally referred to Oyo people, today, Yoruba is political entity with diverse previously unrelated groups. Anyone that so which can change their history and join. There are several groups from, Brazil, Republic of Benin that are members but count Benin out. You can't shave someone's head in his absence. We have not applied to be part of that political group called Yoruba. Benin is too significant for that.

Enjoy your day until you see my name pop up again.

Alba3:
See Samuk, myself and many others have provided you genuine facts as replies to this your repeated gibberish... As for me I don't have time to read same lies you copy and paste for years, every time you invade others' threads. It proofs nothing but sane people only laugh at you.

You've seen the reason I didn't read your fictitious lies again, ba?

You don't read my post but continue to reply to them. Can you swear that you don't get excited whenever my name pops up on a thread, because you know, you are likely to learn a thing or two.

On the photograph you shared, the Oba of Benin was the only born king on it, hence he was also the only one that was allowed with his traditional emblem with the bearer in attendance, the Ada and Omuada. Others on that photograph from the Sultan, Emir, Obi, Ooni, etc are all appointed by politicians. Why was the Ooni not allowed to display his traditional staff. Nigeria government and politicians know who is a king and those that are not in the real sense.

Like I said earlier, if not the British that lumped everyone together, the Oba of Benin have no reason to be in that gathering. You will hardly see the Oba of Benin in such gathering, how many of such, have you seen him since then.

How many of such gathering did you see past Oba of Benin attended.