₦airaland Forum

UGBE634:
I consider Ika igbo, I am a realist.

UGBE634:
I don't think so, there might just have been a pa Idu. He is certainly one of the father's of Binis oldest families. There is a family in Benin that has Laidu as their mode of greeting. I don't know if this helps in anyway

It would be hard to say there was not a pa Idu when about two solid families that might be in their hundreds of thousands greet La-Idu.

This is Edo language greeting 4 on YouTube, on time stamp 9:35, you will see where the man there talked about the family of Ogiefa greeting La-Idu.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LCaxmPdxQU

This is Edo language greeting 5 on youtube, on time stamp 7:45, you will see where the man there talked about the family or descendants of Idu himself greeting La-Idu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOBY3QxokR0

Hence it would be hard to say there was not an actual Pa Idu when he has descendants everywhere using his name to show that he was once here and alive. These families are majorly from Udo. One of Binis most ancient community.

He must have been the earliest to settle here in Bini that is why they call him our father pa idu. but his descendants are strong uncontested evidence that he was once alive.

There are more to this things than meet the eye, I believe that's why the Igbos call us Ndi-Idu. The eldest family they met on ground as at the time they related strongly with Benin was this pa Idu. cc samuk

I believe most other Bini indigenous lineages were breakaway lineages from him

Kc3000:
Negative. The Sarduana of Sokoto was killed by Chukwuma Nzeogwu who is a Bini man from Asaba, according to you all.

Lol ndi ara.

gregyboy:
I was happy to see the screenshot when am financially bouyant enough i would sponser the publication of this old document to the public....

I don't know why the Palace refuse to do so

This is my dream retracing our history deviod fallacy and myth then we can find the missing link to untie the great edo people again

I had it posted on my status were both the igbos, and the edo and other tribe I have in my contact could see the truth

And igbo girl objected with a 1945 document I just laugh

Please share me the link to the book

Logicisfree2:
This should open everybody's eyes to the fact that what we are dealing with is south-easterners trying to grab lands outside their domain. This is all it is. These Igbo revisionists are making up all these stories as a prelude to land-grabbing. We know where they are: southeast.
Do you guys still remember when some of these guys said Irabor was an Igbo name ?
@samuk

Igboid:
Edos(Bini) should understand and accept that their small empire era is gone and never coming back forever.
Anioma is Igbo and has never been Edo. This should be common sense.
Anioma will only aggravate towards SE as time goes on.
Brothers will always settle differences and reunite.
Bini should make peace with their few LGAs in Edo stateand their people there and maybe try to reach out to their Edoid brothers like Esan, Etsako, Urhobo, Isoko, Epie-Etissa (Bayelsa), Engenni (Rivers State), Degema ( Rivers State), etc.

Maybe in time we could out of magnanimity give them back Ozanogogo (those are the only Edo people in Anioma) in exchange for Igbanke in Edo state.

Udo.

gregyboy:
Nice one I learnt something its been a while i read something like this pertaining to edo history

RedboneSmith:
His conclusions from Crowther's writings are over-reaching. Crowther writes about a migration from areas under Benin's sovereignty. There's nothing there about the ethnicity or linguistic pedigree of these migrants. Not every area under Benin's political sphere of influence was Edo, as every scholar of Benin history already knows.

Asaba traditions actually speak of one of the pre-Nnebisi ancestors as Eze Anyanwu, who was connected to the royal line of Eze Chima. This 'Eze Anyanwu' is doubtless the embodiment of this migration from 'under Benin sovereignty' mentioned in Crowther's writings.

It remains to be proven that this Eze Anyanwu, just like Ezechima, was ethnically Edo. The names would suggest not. And like Ezechima, it is much more likely that the migration was from more westerly parts of the [b]Igboid-speaking Anioma area.

bigfrancis21:
Thanks for sharing the article. I wanted to see the original article to understand your original statement about: ‘Asaba fast loosing their edo language’. Your earlier statement does not appear induced nor insinuated in Ajayi’s writing that you referenced. Understood, a few words and cultural practices may have been borrowed from the Edo, plus maybe some later Edo migrants may have settled in Asaba, however it remains unlikely that the entire Asaba people originated from Edo.

AreaFada2:
Let me tell you the truth about the bolded. I began such an effort 6 years ago. It didn't go anywhere. Please let me not talk about how much I wasted on it. I gave it up. Look, most people are interested in money share. One big mistake is to try to involve too many people. Of course the idea is to get as much input as possible. Which in normal countries, would be the right thing. But some generations of 9ja people have got too used to embezzling and sharing money. Only few know the value of history. When you bring that idea, their impression is that you have too much money.

If they can't get get their hands on they money, some will just constitute an obstacle for no reason. Elderly well educated people I am talking about.

The best way is to get young intellectuals with a passion for history. They see things with keen, innovative digital eyes, not corrupt analogue eyes. I had to find an alternative. Not writing anymore, as side-lining them going ahead would have caused offence to many.

The only people I see showing genuine great passion for Edo history on social media are young people. Such as GBD. That tells you that only the youth can rescue the situation.

AreaFada2:
Samuk, the way history has been rewritten by those tribes that the British favoured after 1897 and benefitted initially from 1914 amalgamation and post-independence, is beginning to miseducate some Edo people. Say around 1986, if I greeted elderly people "Lamogun or La'Umogun", they will recite the "oriki", uwaenmwen or praise of Umogun descendants. I would have to politely wait for them to finish before proceeding on my merry way. My experience as a young chap. Edohen, Ero, Elawure, Ezomo and other descendants also have their oriki. A chap who greets Lamogun today might even get a reply in Pidgin English from the elder.

Kids today may not even know that there is something like oriki.
Edo people brought up in Lagos are helping to spread the myth that Edo people come from Yoruba. That is how their "accommodating" hosts educated them.

For anyone to use languages or dialects spoken today in various districts of former Benin Empire to decide or conjure up what the origins or demographics of those areas were around 1440-1473 when Oba Ewuare I reigned, is an abysmal disservice to scholarship and common sense.

But at least the guy has enough fantasy and attempted to think, albeit being misguided.

bigfrancis21:
Interesting. Can you share the link to the book or article about Ajayi’s visit to Asaba in 1875 and his comment on their Edo history?

bigfrancis21:
Interesting. Can you share the link to the book or article about Ajayi’s visit to Asaba in 1875 and his comment on their Edo history?

odigbosky:
You have a point. It is very valid but i still believe Edo was not a major language in places like Asaba. There are other writings that classified these people as igboid.

RedboneSmith:
Nope. I didn't say it has roots in both Esan and Igbo. It's origin is unequivocally Igbo, and diffused to both Esan and Benin. You didn't understand what I said there.

And, no. The Southeasterners don't use idumu to mean quarters like is done in Anioma, but this doesn't mean that etymologically the roots of 'Idumu' cannot be understood by a Southeasterner. It was an Anioma innovation but linguistically is still Igboid. To give an example: in the southeast, soup is called 'ofe' in Standard Igbo, but the Ikwerre of Rivers State call it 'mini wiri'. But does it mean "mini wiri" is not Igboid? No. 'mini wiri' is cognate with 'miri nri' which means 'food' s water' or 'sauce for eating food' in Igbo. The Ikwerre word is therefore still etymologically Igbo, even if it isn't used in Central/Standard Igbo. It's the same basic concept with Idumu.



Then you should be able to break it done into its constituent units and explain it. But you apparently can't. And while we are on the topic of Igbo expressions loaned to Edo:

I hope you won't disagree that the "Uku" that appears in the praise name of your Oba "Uku Akpolokpolo" is from the Igbo word for "big or great".

Or that the Edo word for gun, osisi, is from the Igbo word for stick (applied to the early daneguns because they looked like long sticks), and is still used to describe guns throughout Anioma.

Or that the Edo word for skirt buluku, is from the Igbo word 'mbuluku' or 'mbunuku' or 'mbenuku/mbenukwu', which in Igbo means 'that which is girded around the waist'.



Which language isn't continually evolving and borrowing? What exactly is the point of this paragraph?


Deliberately evasive. I will be waiting for an Edo etymology of Idu and Idumwun. Cheers.

RedboneSmith:
I do not doubt that Benin took "Idumwun" to Lagos. What is in question is the etymological roots of the word itself. Europeans brought potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava and maize to us, but all of these words "potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cassava, maize" are not European words. They are Native American words.

Your ancestors may have taken idumwun to wherever, but the word itself is Igboid. If you have a satisfactory Edo etymology for it, then provide it and let us examine it.

RedboneSmith:
One of the problems I have with the neighbours of Igbo-speaking peoples, especially the Edo and the Igala, is that they have this hardened belief that their cultural relationship with the Igbo was one-way, and that the Igbo were always on the receiving end of cultural influence from them, while they never picked up anything from the Igbo. Anytime the Edo man or the Igala man comes across something he shares with his Igbo neighbor, the tendency is to jump to the conclusion (without consideration to linguistic and etymological logic) that the Igbo must have learnt it from them.

The first question to ask about "Idu" is: if Idu was an Edo endonym for themselves, how do you explain the fact that none of their neighbours historically used this word for them, except for the Igbo? Edo (Benin) people had ancient interactions with Yoruba, Urhobo, Iteskiri, Esan, but they did not take "Idu" to them, except to the Igbo and Igboid people to the east. How? Why?

There's only one logical explanation: the word was an Igbo word to begin with, an Igbo exonym for Benin.

And Idu actually does have Igbo meanings:

One, it means 'bush'.
Two (and this is the meaning that is more relevant to this discussion), it means 'a crowd', 'an agglomeration of people' or 'a community'.

The Igbo called Benin "Idu n'Oba" which means "the Community of the Oba" or "The Oba's Community" in Igbo. Often rendered simply for the sake of brevity as "Idu."

Idu or Iduu is still used even in parts the southeast to mean 'people' or 'community', especially in the Omambala area.

Could you kindly give me an Edo etymology of "Idu"? Having ancient Idu-named shrines doesn't confer an Edo provenance on the name; it only indicates an ancient relationship between the Igbo and the Edo.

Even your word "Idumwun" (called Idumu by Esan and us in Anioma) is an Igboid term in its etymological roots.

I can break down "Idumu" to meaningful units in Igbo:

Idu = community
Ụmụ = children/descendants

Idumuobi (common name of lineages in Anioma) = community of the descendants of the Obi.

Idumuje (in Esan) = community of the descendants of the Oje, i.e., the royal quarters.

Idumwun Ewaise (in Benin) = community of the descendants of the royal physicians and diviners.

Again, could you offer an etymology for your "Idumwun"?

RedboneSmith:
The fact that the word 'Idu' was incorporated into Benin's cultural space in the forms you've mentioned is testament to early intimate relationship between the Benin people and their neighbours to the east.

Idu etymologically is an Igbo word. What does it mean in Edo? I know of at least two meanings of Idu in Igbo.

RedboneSmith:
The fact that the word 'Idu' was incorporated into Benin's cultural space in the forms you've mentioned is testament to early intimate relationship between the Benin people and their neighbours to the east.

Idu etymologically is an Igbo word. What does it mean in Edo? I know of at least two meanings of Idu in Igbo.

RedboneSmith:
Idu as a historical person is very unlikely. Idu is an exonym, a name given to Benin by Igbo people. It is an Igbo term (with Igbo meanings), and not an Edo term. It's re-invention as a person is likely the result of latter-day mythopoesis.

ChangedMan1999:
Look, it may be true that some Ika don't identify under the name Igbo or Igbon, but it is false when you try to suggest that they are not biologically and linguistically one with people of South East.


Pa Iduwe that was mentioned in this thread is an Ika man who was born in the beginning of last century, and his conscience and positive reasoning made him know that although they Ika people are close to Bini, they are more related to people of South East.

Please try to read Pa Iduwes manuscript on Ika history.

You can't tell me that Ika man killed a Bini woman because she called him "Igbo" and there Ika is not Igbo. It is error in reasoning.

My good friend, I am not trying to tell you Ika people identity under Igbo; what I am trying to say is that Ika people are biologically, linguistically and culturally more related to the people of south east

TAO11:
Regular Bini People: Our king doesn’t step out of his palace.

Samuk: No, he sometimes leaves his palace for some visitations.

Me: Stop pretending like I am one of your Bini people who say he doesn’t step out of his palace.

Go iron out your contradictions with your Bini people.

+ I also sometimes leave my house for visitations, duh

---

And yes, I am aware that a colony of Bini traders in the 1500s came to trade & settle on Èkó island.

I am aware that a piece of the Eko island was allotted to them by the landowners; after their permission to trade & settle was granted — just as it was granted to other immigrant groups who came for same reason.

I’m aware that this resident population of Bini traders lived in peace & harmony until around the turn of the 1500s when this Bini group began to take up arms to fight against another Bini group in the region.

For the first time since their settling there, their trade post now doubled as a “garrison” — a garrison set up to attack another Bini trading group around the coast.

In any case, your kings like other kings anywhere step out of their palaces/towns — of course except the Ifẹ kings of old who never did until in the year 1903.

Cheers.

TAO11:
1st screenshot: Ọmọ-n-ọba Ovoranmwen at Calabar; when he was banished there.

2nd screenshot: Ọmọ-n-ọba Akenzua-II at Ifẹ; when he just became Benin king.

3rd screenshot: Ọmọ-n-ọba Akenzua-II at the Airport; when he and others welcomed the white lady.

---

In sum, it didn’t begin with Ọmọ-n-ọba Erediauwa nor with his son the present Ọmọ-n-ọba Ewuare-II.

Your Ọmọ-n-ọbas have always been going outside of Benin since time immemorial.

Do you know that Ọmọ-n-ọba Ehengbuda drowned in the Lagos area in the Atlantic Ocean?

Cheers.
Cc: Raymond0008