₦airaland Forum

ThickSharon123:
That's a lie from hell .... No true patriotic Igbos would do that, maybe is the self ehtinic Igbotic tribes in the south South. But as for the south east Igbo zones, we all want Biafra, and do you know why, dear?

We have the same idealogy for prosperity and equality and where these are in place in a nation the nation thrives.

Look at the United States, they had the same idealogy which made them prosperous.

BRiton likewise.
France
Germany
And all other countries.
But the Roman empire got destroyed becuase of several ethnic tribes in one conglomeration, so if we are still together with other tribes as you, we would still be going on the same cycle, which makes Africa backward.

Perhaps, when we are emotionally intelligent to let go of our egos, then we would be talking about being together in Africa, but in this state it can not happen and no Igbo has and would never claim to be in Nigeria.

I love Igbos .... without my mom being Igbo, I would never have been bold, beautiful and intelligent, this is the reason I adore and would fight for them any day.

Are you aware that the British at Nigeria independence left something akin to three confederation within Nigeria, mid-west people had already negotiated their exit from the west, which they actualized in 1963.

So by 1960, the Igbos controlled crude oil rich eastern Nigeria with capital city in Enugu was several times bigger than the Biafra they are now agitating for, how did the Igbos lose their elephant share of the nation and are now fighting and begging for chicken.

Read Nigeria history of what happened between 15th January 1966 to June 1966 to find out how the Igbos shot themselves in the foot and lost their elephant share of the nation, autonomy and political influence and power.

How can people who controlled the presidency, army, Senate, most ministries, the economy lost so much within a six months period of misadventures and are now reduced to political neophyte that are now begging for a fraction of what they used to controlled.

Contrary to the misinformation that the British left Nigeria to Hausa/Fulani, it was the Igbos that were in control but they throw it away by turning Nigeria into a unitary system which they taught would be to their advantage, but it's the Hausa/Fulani that took advantage of Ironsi unitary system.

Igbo should start suggesting ways to make Nigeria work for everyone, leaving Nigeria is not going to happen because the forces against Biafra from within the Igbos and the rest of Nigeria is too great for it to be actualized.

Long before the Fulani jihad started in northern Nigeria, down south through the middle belt, Benin Obas have personally stopped leading armies into wars for reasons I am not going to mention here. After this, all wars that Benin was involved in were fought by chiefs and Enigie who had standing armies who served at his majesty pleasure.

A great number of Esan served in Benin military and the general, chief Ezomo of Benin is said to be of Esan descent.

Esan people repelling off the Fulani jihadist would have been a natural thing for them to do, not necessarily waiting for instructions from Benin to protect their end of the Benin empire, just as the commanders and Benin army stationed in Lagos garrison in 1602 wouldn't have waited for instructions from Benin before fending off external aggression in Lagos and it's environments.

When the Lagos garrison sort the help of the Dutch ship to help bombard another Benin fortified garrison with cannons in 1602 because they rebelled against Benin, the Lagos commanders didn't wait for instructions from Benin.

Benin had military garrisons with stationed and residence armies at different strategic locations throughout the empire. These armies do what is necessary and report back to Benin.

Esan are descendants of Benin, so it makes no difference.

There is a statue of great Esan military general Eboghimwin in King's Square Benin City. Most Benin queens were from the Esan part of the empire.

There is no difference between Benin and Esan. Only an ignorant or mischievous person would think there is.

As far as the Benin empire was concerned, everything or actions were done or taken in the names of the various Obas by their subjects.

Except for few, the names of most individuals that played several roles are forgotten but the names of the Obas they served are remembered. Anything any individual or Edo subgroup did is or are recorded under the era of an Oba, in Benin history you can't separate the Oba from the people.

KingOKON:
.

That self acclaim professor from Osun abi na Ekiti state, has he/she gone blind deaf and dumb

Her life depends on oba of Benin being yoruba. How can any sane person look at the names of past Obas of Benin and still claim they were Yoruba who spoke Yoruba language at the Benin Palace till 1937.

So they were speaking Yoruba at the Benin Palace but forbid � Yoruba names. Meanwhile oba of Benin supposed siblings, the Alaafin of Oyo, all had Yoruba names, other supposed relatives such as the Ooni also had Yoruba names.

Those that created the Benin/Ife fairytale never thought it would be scrutinised in the future, if they had knew, they would have probably changed the first few names of obas of Benin to Yoruba or Yoruba sounding names.

Take a look at the monarchs from Olu of warri(Ogiamen) to Obi of Onitsha(Agboghidi) that have Benin connections, you can see Benin influenced names in either their traditional titles or chieftaincy titles.

KingOKON:
.

What the sons of Dan Fodio did to them
is why they are beating their empty chest here

I am still waiting for them to tell us the yoruba meanings of the names of past obas of Benin below, since they are claiming that oba of Benin is yoruba.

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

Ife is only found in the revision garbage story that was written by returnee slaves between 1897 to 1970.

Yoruba eyewitness history began in 1824 and yet they are telling the world that they are experts in Benin history whose eyewitness historical accounts began in the 1400s.

Benin history documented by eyewitnesses between 1400s to 1897 made no mention of Ife.

Between 1400s to 1897, Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan are not mentioned in Benin history. Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan are only found in the revision version of Benin history that started in 1897.

Benin history is now broken into two parts.

1. Authentic verifiable eyewitness sources, 1400s to 1897.
Writers/authors: European eyewitnesses to the events they documented.

2. Revision unverifiable fairytales, 1897 (end of Benin empire/kingdom) to 1970.
Writers/authors: Yorubas, people under Yoruba influence and other collaborators who simply wrote fairytales that they never witnessed.

Abohboy:
So Ijebu land isn't internal?

Help yourself with a Google map to know the difference, besides Yoruba history revolves around Oyo and later Ife. The Awujale of Ijebu claims his Ijebu people migrated from Sudan.

Abohboy:
The Portugese and Dutch quite literally came into contact with the Ijebu and traded with them as far back the 1500s so your claim of no Yoruba having contact with Europeans till the 1800s is wrong you can try all you want but the history of Oduduwa comes from the Odu Ifa which cannot be corrupted the stories of the Odu Ifa have been the same since the dawn of time

Go back and read what I wrote again, I said the first time the Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba was 1824.

Edeyoung:
Yea this is a well researched carried out, not the baldman down here pointing fingers and calling people traitors because they decide to speak the undiluted truth that point fingers to the palace on their wrong doings

I don't usually like to get involved when compatriots start having a dig at each others in other not to be seen as taking sides.

However, let me point out few things.

1. Was there alliance between Oba Eweka 11, the Alaafin of Oyo and Ooni of Ife after the death of Oba Ovonramwen? I believe there was.

2. Was there any such connection before 1897? I can't find evidence to support any connection between Ooni and Benin but there was evidence of Oba of Benin and Alaafin of Oyo alliance.

3. Does your submission that claims that Oba Eweka 11 used to pray for himself, Ooni and Alaafin in the morning mean that he sees (Ooni and Alaafin) as superior? I don't think so, praying for people or other traditional rulers you are in alliance with doesn't mean they are superior to you.

4. The very fact that both the Benin Palace after 1897 and the Ooni subscribe to the Oduduwa story is enough evidence of an alliance between them in colonial times for mutual political gains, there is other evidence that I wouldn't like to disclose here.

5. There are no mentions of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history pre-1897.

Abohboy:
They were first written down in 1824 including the stories before Awolowo and his father was born so you're wrong continue trying to create false history

Just incase you got the 1824 date from my writeup, let me clarify some points.

1824 was when the first Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba (Oyo) and started gathering first hand historical accounts of the Yoruba people.

Around this same time the Europeans also visited the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello, Sultan Bello had documented that the Yorubas migrated from the middle east (Mecca).

The Europeans that were in Oyo (the lander Brothers and co) collected a different tradition from that of Sultan Bello.

In both accounts, Oduduwa wasn't mentioned.

Oduduwa was a myth in some Yoruba traditions until some returnee slaves such as Samuel Johnson started writing the history of the Yoruba.

Samuel Johnson in 1897 built his Yoruba middle east origin on Sultan Bello's 1822-1824 narrative but unlike Sultan Bello that claimed that the Yorubas migrated from Mecca, Samuel Johnson argued in the direction of Egypt because he said there were no records of Oduduwa in the history of Mecca.

This is how a mythical Oduduwa was transformed into the Moses that led his Yoruba people from the middle east to their current location in Nigeria. Some Igbos did the same by tracing themselves back to Israel.

The Oduduwa story was built on Sultan Bello's 1824 unsubstantiated narrative.

What some of you propagate as history are mostly layers of lies told over time by different people and Yoruba history is full of these kind of narratives, they try to get away with it by telling you they were scholarly works by experts.

The so called experts need materials to work with and in most cases these materials are lies told over time and at the end the experts and professionals just help to further the lies to advance their careers.

The only true history are the ones documented by eyewitnesses who happened to witness what they wrote down. This is why Benin has no rival and a reference point.

Benin is the only significant kingdom/empire in Nigeria with such eyewitness historical accounts dating back to the 1400s, Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts started in 1824, the story of Oduduwa was created much later.

toregunjoelz:
While all this endless debates of binis and yorubas is dragging,d north re busy ruling you guys like an inexperienced driver,you all better channel your energy towards electing good leaders come 2023

Nigeria has been on a reverse gear since the coup d'état on 15 January 1966. It will be very difficult to change the political system that was created after the coup, the problem is not who is ruling, there are more poverty and illiteracy in the North compared yo South.

The political system is the problem, it will be suicidal for anyone that attempts to change it, just as it cost the life of the person that gave us the current system.

OGUN622:
first there is nothing like "Ogiamen language" it is Edo language since Ogiamen speak the language the other seventy three families speak,

And also you never thanked me on the Iyase lecture I gave you, or maybe give a rebutall and provide the proof I asked

And also you never answered my question what you meant by central language and if Benin city's tongue is different from other Edo clans, I would like you to answer those ones before.

And what words you think were borrowed, let's begin to check and see which one was borrowed or which was not I would like you to answer those ones before we can continue

That one nigga (a Yoruba)has done justice to one topic, by whose judgement? You?

Ogiso of course is not a myth,(we have their descendants in Bini,they greet delaiso,the Ogisos were weak rulers which thier rulership evolved from within, all the over thirty Ogisos were Edos. What I meant is that the Oba's emergence from the Ogiso line and the counter story of Oranmiyan coming from Ife is the myth. Oba is a pure Edo man from Oza. Ovbi'umogun'Oza-that is what the Oba's descendants is called when he greet his morning greetings- child of the Owner of Ogun from Oza

Ogun my nigga is Edo, just as it is Yoruba, the worship pattern is not the same. The Binis have been Ironsmith from time immemorial, that is how the worship of Iron began. Iron is Ogun in Edo-Singular. While Igun means Irons(plural) Iron.(we don't erect an altar for Esu in Edo and we don't worship Esu which you guys call the trickster. Or do you have any proof it was borrowed

Olokun is also Edo-Olokun means the Owner of the sea, the Edos have access to the water through Ughoton and Urhonigbe-Ethiope river These are Gods worshipped by all Edo clans.

Orunmila, Aiyelala, and others I can confidently say was borrowed but they are worshipped by some few sects in Benin, unlike those ones which are general gods worshipped by all Edos

Ekiophagha treaty has nothing to do with aborigine whatsoever, there are more complex "fight" within outside the Ekiophagha treaty that the Oba embark upon before Ascending the throne. He goes to Udo, Urhonigbe, Use, Egor, Uselu and the river Okwahe. The Ekiophagha is just one of those rites.

Nice one, but would they learn. Benin is just too deep, well established and complex for any tribe to try still her history. Well done.

Abohboy:
Tao11 provided dozens of sources if you simply bothered to read you'd find what you're looking for this is purposeful ignorance and i'm not going to entertain anyone who doesn't bother to do their own research

Can you now see the problems with some of you guys, you come here to write fiction, when you are challenged to supply supporting evidence, you will claim it has been presented before, what is the problem of simply reposting the evidence.

You are happy to repeat your lies but not happy to repost your supposed evidence when challenged to do so.

You can't make a claim that is strange to me and when I request for evidence, you can't be bothered and ask me to go and do my own research if I am not ready to believe whatever it is you have claimed.

It's like me claiming to Ghanaians that Nigeria used to produce planes and when challenged to provide evidence, I will ask the them to go and research it for themselves.

If you go to court to make a claim, you are required to supply support evidences to back up your claims.

This is a court of public opinion. The only reason must of you run away from backing up your claims with evidence when requested to do so is because you know you are telling lies.

Abohboy:
Serious about what? That's what happened after Ilorin was conquered the Fulani began to move south and Oyo Ile was ransacked several times so to survive the residents left and founded new cities like Ago D'Oyo the current seat of the old Oyo empire or they moved to Ife which was the start of the Modakeke conflict if you bothered to search you'd find the ruins of the walls found in the old oyo national park or the grinding sites and indigo pits for dying cloth or even the watering holes for the populace it is all there you just have to use your energy to find it

In order to take what you have written seriously and not as some exaggeration from some story tellers, do you have any written eyewitness historical accounts to these events.

Secondly, I am not saying there wasn't an Oyo village whose Alaafin was regarded as the leader of the Yoruba people, this is not what I am saying.

What I am saying is there is no independent verifiable sources or eyewitness historical accounts to support the claim that Oyo was an empire or a kingdom. At best it was a Yoruba village that tried to control other Yoruba villages, sometimes calling on the Oba of Benin for help when he is unable to subdue his rebellious Yoruba neighbours.

Anybody can wake up and write anything as history, this is why I always request for eyewitness historical accounts to support such claims.

If Oyo was an empire in the 1600s and 1700s the way you guys are claiming, why are there no independent eyewitness accounts written by Europeans who documented all notable West Africa kingdoms and empires starting from the 1400s to the 1800s.

All that was written about Oyo until 1824 were all hearsay, not first hand accounts. Why are there no European eyewitness that visited this so called great Oyo empire or Kingdom until 1824, other great kingdoms and empires from Itsekiri, Benin to others were all visited and documented but not Oyo, why was the supposed great Alaafin of Oyo not visited until 1824?

When the Europeans finally visited Oyo in 1824 for the first time, all they saw was a small village struggling for survival from his Yoruba neighbours, they didn't see a kingdom or empire.

The ease at which the Fulani took over Ilorin and converted most Yoruba people and their Obas from Ilorin to Ibadan to Islam is enough evidence that Oyo wasn't an empire let alone a formidable one with great cavalry.

If you have an independent verifiable written eyewitness historical accounts about this supposed great Oyo empire, present them. Usually, when people make claims here and you request for evidence to support their claims, they resort to insults. Hope you are different.

OGUN622:
My brother that guy na clown o better one Edo conquered the world from Benin city, our city traditionally called Edo, go and check kingdoms, where she had impact, it was always Edo relics and these low self esteem ignorant fools want to tell us otherwise. The Benin kingdom cum empire project was always Edo's business koyor.

They claimed to have civilized us citywise yet they had none to their name in the fifteenth century other than to divert people's history,what audacity, we know who the bush people are

Next time if that nigga sees my post, he will dodge it, he should go and tell his low self esteem fairytales to his kids not an informed man like me

I am Osaze by native name, I am Ogun on nairaland, I am also Mike by name, but the same person(you can't say you know Ogun you don't know Mike that would amount to lunacy).I am a Bini man, I belong to the only group that identify as Edo in the world. it is only fools that will not accept truth and would rather dwell on ignorance. Whether you accept or not it has been sealed and the Evidences abound.

My brother, these guys running around here know that the only empire/kingdom known in the world from this Nigeria space is the Benin empire, this is why they have been trying to appropriate it as Yoruba empire.

Outside Nigeria and across the world, Benin empire is what the world know, not Oyo or Ife that fairytales tellers created in 1890s.

They have continuously tried to promote and project a fictitious and fictional Oyo empire that have no eyewitness historical written accounts until the 1824 when they got their first European visitors.

When the Europeans visited Oyo for the first time in 1824, all they saw and met on ground were some villagers fighting themselves with the Alaafin of Oyo begging the Oba of Benin to come save his neck. There wasn't evidence or semblance of a kingdom let alone an empire.

All that was claimed to have been written about this fictional Oyo empire prior to 1824 were all hearsay, not eyewitness accounts.

If Oyo was so great at any time in the past, it would have attracted European visitors earlier than the 1824 that they finally found their way there after more than 400 years of consistently visiting Benin. The Catholic church even established a mission in Benin city starting from the 1500s with residents priest yet they never heard of or visited this audio Oyo empire that was supposed to be next door to Benin.

There were always European merchants residents in Benin, some even staying up to two years before leaving for Europe, yet they never heard about Oyo/Ife but they heard about the Itsekiri kingdom and visited.

Benin already sent ambassador to Europe in the 1600s and it took another 200 years before the first European found their way to Oyo and they are saying they civilised who?

The good thing is all these feel good factor lies they tell here ends here in Nigeria, the Europeans and Americans whose ancestors documented Benin history can't be fooled.

TAO11:
This one that you’re fighting yourself. Lol.

Anyways, I’m kinda glad that bitterness/envy pushed you into making a mess & fool of yourself in full public glare.


———————
(1) Oyo-Ile was abandoned not NOT because residents were bored of savanna region and the not too far Niger River.

It was abandoned because the empire disintegrated and people migrated in all directions. The empire ended but the kingdom continued at Ago-Oja in the forest.

Your imagination that a new place for horses should be prioritized is a welcome imagination. But history is not to be imagined.

In any case, your laughable imagination does not fly because the migration was not due to boredom and similar reasons.

It wasn’t a migration rooted in exploration/pleasure. It was out of necessity, and survival was what was key at such a point when the empire was just lost.

(2) This question again:
Is there any reason why the eyewitness writings about the fierceness of Oyo’s cavalry and its top notch use of bowmen in Africa (writings from 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s) doesn’t suffice as evidence of its powerful cavalry? Lol.

You’ve been avoiding this question. I would love to read your gymnastics in this regard.

Cheers.

Are you really serious right now

christistruth01:
If you like say Benin never Paid Tribute to Alaafin Oranmiyan it is already beyond dispute

Your replies are always comical , I hope others find them as funny as I do.

What year or time period did Benin paid tributes to Oba Oranmiyan of Oyo.

TAO11:
I was going to express shock that an ?adult is asking this, but I would be kind to simply answer your question without judging your education background:

In the days of Oyo empire, Oyo-Ile wasn’t far from the Niger River in the savanna — NOT forest.

Since circa 1835, this capital was abandoned and the city moved down south into the forests of the central Yorùbáland in where Oyo is today.

Let me know if you’re able to see the answer in this reply. If not, I will dumb it down further.

It’s a pity.


—————
In addition to answering your question, is there any reason why the European accounts of the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s are not sufficient for you as regards how the Oyo calavlry was ferocious, top notch in Africa, and strikes terror into the hearts of neighboring negros?

Cc: theTranscriber

Na Wao

christistruth01:
Benin Once Paid Tribute to Oyo

Starting with Oranmiyan Alaafin at Oyo




From Sir Alfred Moloney
British Colonial Governor of Lagos
1890

There is nowhere in your screenshot that says Benin once paid tributes to Oyo.

Starting from about 1860, the British have started writing gibberish and rubbish about Benin history as an excuse or precursor to remove the Oba and dominate his empire, which they eventually did in 1897.

The screenshot you posted wasn't an eyewitness accounts but a hearsay, your Sir Alfred Moloney didn't report what he witnessed but what he claimed they heard happened around 1830.

Unfortunately for Sir Alfred Moloney 1890 hearsay account, there is actually an eyewitness accounts from another British who visited Oyo and the Alaafin of Oyo for first hand accounts in 1824. By the way this was the first time any European visited Oyo, all that was written about Oyo prior to 1824 were all hearsay and not eyewitness accounts.

The Alaafin told his British visitor that he was actually waiting and relying on the Oba of Benin for military assistance to help him fight a war he was currently fighting. He also told the British that Oyo once paid tributes to Benin.

Below is how the Alaafin of Oyo described the Oba of Benin in time past.

The statement from Clapperton on his visit to Oyo in 1824:

1. "In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


2. "The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

Now you have two accounts from two Europeans, one is hearsay written in 1890 talking about the 1830s and the second one was written in 1824 by an eyewitness who was in Oyo to see the Alaafin.

Which one do you think is the correct story/history.

RedboneSmith:
Lol. I have not threatened you and you're fuming in the mouth already.

Samuel Igbinosa Namamuikor, you can lie to others about your identity, not me. Shey you want to leave the topic at hand and dive into other things? Very well. Samuel, otolo ga-agba gi. I ga anyu mgbilima afo gi, you hear me? Bush boy from the backwaters of Urhue.

This Samuel Igbinosa Namamuikor must have been your nemesis that you still have nightmares about. I have already told you, I am not the person you think I am. If I am, i will gladly accept my identity, Benin people are renowned for bravery, we don't deny who will are. Unlike your other Hausa/Fulani boy denying his Hausa/Fulani ancestry and you being ashamed of your Igala ancestry.

RedboneSmith:
Samuel Nosa Nomamuikor, otolo na-enwero nwanne lachaa gị anya!

Stop being a coward that's full of empty threats and write in English language for all to read how weak you are. When you are beaten hands down in a debate, you start crying like a baby and issuing empty threats like a coward.

What happened to all the juju in your village you threatened with last time, efulefu Ewu Igala. What makes you think you are capable of threatening a Benin person, nonsense.

You are Igala efulefu Igbo wannabe.

If you know you are incapable of taking insults, don't be stupid and foolish enough to be the first to dish it out. If you cross that line in a civil debate, be ready to take the insults that come your way. Next time keep your insults to yourself, if you a tired of a debate, leave quietly.

I don't know who is Samuel Nosa Nomamuikor.

IDENNAA:
You are still daft and senseless in your argument because Igbo didn't germinate from the soil , we all came from somewhere that was not originally Igbo land. This also goes for the Yoruba , Fulani , Edoid , Igala etc. People migrate according to economic situations. A monkey even understands this phenomena.

Now , did you say "most notable personalities" ? What does that even mean ? Is Zik and Achebe equal to "most" and even if they are , are they no longer Igbo ? Why are you dragging my people with me ? You posted a video of Obi Achebe saying Onicha started its journey from Ado , in Ile-Ife then stopped at Bini before their final movement to Anambra after the war with your people who didn't welcome the Igbo strangers.

Am inclined to ask why you are so concerned with the identity of an Igbo group who speak Igbo , eat Igbo food , dance Igbo dance , suffered from the same hate meted on the Igbo ? What do you Bini coccckroaches want ?

You are empty upstairs, give it a rest.

IDENNAA:
LMAO...you posted an interview done in Igbo but I don't think you understand Igbo, to begin with. Reason why I called you daft. If you understood what Obi Achebe's narratives why then are you saying Onicha has Bini ancestry ? Are you not ffoolish??

You are the one that is foolish otherwise you would have understood my point that most notable personalities from Zik to Igwe Achebe in Igbo land traces their history/ancestry to somewhere outside of Igbo land.

People like yourself are killing yourself for nothing whenever you hear of such history.

Your initial outburst was due to extract from Zik's autobiography where he claimed Benin ancestry, now you have also heard from Igwe Achebe, hope you don't hug a transformer.

Two major historical routes lead to Igbo land, Benin and Igala. This is why some Igbo people traces their history to either Benin or Igala, but Benin features prominently in Igbo history, Benin is ubiquitous in Igbo history, there is nowhere in Igbo land including Nri that Benin is not referenced, learn to leave with it and stop being antagonistic and small minded.

IDENNAA:
Anybody who claim Bini ancestry is welcomed to leave because Bini land started and ended in Bini. This matter has been over flogged and they are still speaking Igbo , worshipping at Igbo shrines , singing and chanting in Igbo ....how else does one become Igbo...lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxQKyPh7I8

IDENNAA:
Bini boy , what the fucck is the point of this twisted and senseless story. So , you Bini people who are yet to win Gelegele back from Ijaw is busy peddling tiny bit and incomplete history of Illah as if Illah people needed your help...lol. Face your problems and leave Illah people alone. Guess what , Onicha , Aguleri , Obosi , Ogbaru etc had Igala migrants , too. Does that make them Igala ? Since Bini also has Igbo migrants that has acculturated into Bini culture does that make Bini an Igbo town ?

Are you Bini people this dense in the brain or what ?

If that's so, why are you so pained that some Igbo communities and Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe claim Benin ancestry.

I told you before that you have nothing of substance to offer, so find somewhere to hide yourself and allow the Igala efulefu boy speak for himself since for some stupid and foolish reasons he thinks he holds the monopoly and copyright of insults.

Stop wasting my time, go and watch children's cartoon or the videos of Igbo claims of Benin history below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4xXMdK8HYQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytmPqtA65YY

MEET YOUR ILLAH IGALA PEOPLE
Illah is a town in Delta state. It is made up of Igala and other tribes. The Igala part is called Azanoma.
Azanoma was founded by Prince Asaga and Prince Onaje, both are children of Attah Ayegba Oma Idoko.
Around 15th century, Prince Asaga was sent by his father, Attah Ayegba, to follow the newly crowned Obi Igbo from Idah to Illah to teach Obi's people some music, dances and how to beat ogidi gbo (wooden gong). Due to the hospitality nature of the Illah people he met, he settled down and refused to go back to Idah as his father instructed him to. Staying too long, Attah Ayegba became unsettled and then sent his younger brother, Onaje to go and look for him, and bring him back home. On reaching there, Onaje saw his brother doing very well and very happy with the friendly nature of the people. Onaje was well received by them, and seeing their hospitality too, he didn't go back to but stayed with his elder brother. They both married and formed the Azanoma (Illah Igala) although others said it was formed by/with by Otakpe, another son of Attah Ayegba (which is not my point here to say who is right or not but to identify and reconnect them to Igala in the ancestral home, Idah).
Today, the king of Azanoma is Eze Nmo (Chief Michael Eddoh) and assisted by Agaba Idu (second in command). The present Agaba Idu is of Asaga lineage. His name is Chief Chikweh Maduka. All the cultural activities of Igala are till today carried out by Illah Igala. Although, most of them can no longer speak Igala due to just two person in the midst of many strange people and long stay in foreign land, Igala language is used in most cultural festivals. Thanks to Sir Paul Onelum and sir Emmanuel Ofili, both of Illah Igala for their efforts. And do you know what, Pa Paul Onelum has Igala native uniform, and to let you know also, some Illah Igala adults are currently receiving Igala language lessons to allow them teach their family members. Let this Igala lesson be emulated by other indigenous Igala across the world. Igala blood remains the same, help me welcome Illah Igala home again. Me wola odudu chaka.
I'm Ayegba, and our reunion is my priority, pls join me. Share to inform other Igalas we are there too.

RedboneSmith:
Ị na-atụpụrụ the anụmanụ ọnụ. Screenshot that has been shared here multiple times, and which all of them pretended they did not see.

I should come and start rehashing old dead over-repeated conversations and run around fetching old screenshots because I signed up on Nairaland to teach kindergarten. Tah!

What is this efulefu Igala descendant Igbo wannabe from Illah Delta state saying.

IDENNAA:
Are you people cursed to lie till eternity or what. I was on the same thread where Redbonesmith posted the screen shot and you saw it and acted like you are dumb , now you are arguing like a deranged man. What is wrong with you Bini people...dem do una?

You are wasting your time barking at the wrong tree. Take your grievances to your Igbo people that claim Benin descent.

IDENNAA:
You always embrace these Bini-centric version because it makes you feel good and boosts your little ego but when you are presented with verifiable versions you act like you suddenly lost comprehension abilities.

How can Bini found Asaba yet you have absolutely nothing in common with Asaba. Are you Bini not ashamed you claimed to have operated an empire that encompasses all southern Nigeria yet not a single ffucking remnants to show for your claims.

You sit in your Bini village claiming Onicha yet you know nothing about Onicha from the beginning...it hurts to be this pathetic. Tomorrow it is Ikwerre but when you are pressed for evidence you start running around like a headless chicken. You guys are just realizing your so called "empire" was actually a Chiefdom that was scared to venture eastward....lol

I am sure Zik left behind descendants, channel your grievances to them.

We have nothing to discuss because apart from your usual outburst, you lack substance. If you were to be engaged further now, you will not bring anything meaningful to the discussion other than insults, so, I have no time to waste with you, even your leader Nnamdi Kanu acknowledges Benin greatness.

When you are done fighting Zik's descendants in Anambra state, you can head to Oguta in Imo state and challenge them on their Benin history as narrated below. Enjoy the video.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bbc.com/igbo/afirika-48565792&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiPgLLynb7tAhXI2qQKHaWeBrQQFjAOegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3am-fbxDHnMAVrzuqkDP9h

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha."
SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4
http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/75723-meaning-history-onitsha.html


"I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD.
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5

"One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins, "

"I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu, , " "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc,
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p 11 - 12

RedboneSmith:
[s][/s]
You think it's me you'll drag into another pointless round of back-and-forth. Akuko.

Everyone who has beem following our Benin-Anioma-East back-and-forth saw the Zik screenshots except you. I don't have time for this. The materials are out there, if you can't find them, that's not my problem. Done spoonfeeding Benin trolls.

Benin trolls?? You are actually the troll here on a thread posted by me.

Your modus operandi is to run away when challenged to substantiate your claims.

You claimed Zik wrote something in the 1930s that contradicted his 1970 autobiography where he claimed Benin ancestry, I simply requested that you provide the 1930 write up for the audience to read, you are throwing tantrums.

RedboneSmith:
A movie made by a Benin man, telling the Benin perspective. I hear you.

Obi Olise's head was displayed where? Any evidence? As long as you do not have evidence other than stories you tell in Benin, it is a 'he said, she said' situation.


Why would you hear, when all you've ever been interested in is the Benin angle? You think other communites don't tell their own stories? Or that their stories are not worth attention?

I am still waiting for Zik 1930s or 1940s papers, if you have shared it before, I don't see any reason why it should be difficult to share it again. I will like to read it.

What you shared in our Asaba debate was written much later than Ajayi Crowder 1875 eyewitness accounts. What you shared was written in the 1900s. I want something order than Ajayi Crowder 1875 eyewitness accounts to take you more seriously, not latter possible revisionist history.

I await Zik's 1930s writeup that contradicted his 1970s Benin ancestry claims, I am sure others will also want to read it.

Incase you don't know, there was a rebuttal/rejoinder to Isidore Okpewho by late Dr Peter Ekeh who wasn't a Benin man.

I take your claim that UBULU-UKU have a contrary view of Adesuwa and Obi Olise history with a pitch of salt. I doubt UBULU-UKU tradition is different from Benin tradition on this particular history.

The lack of adequate Benin historians makes other people usually with ulterior motives come to Benin to do their research and end up writing themselves in a favourable way into Benin history. They come in pretending to be genuine researchers, only to end up editing what they were told and replace the history with their lies.

One of your friends is planning such a trip to Benin this December. Unfortunately, there are so many unsuspecting Benin people willing to help such characters not knowing their true intentions and motives.

I also take some aspects of Benin history, especially written by none Benins who were not eyewitnesses to the events they write about with a pitch of salt.

Numerous garbage stories were written as Benin history starting from late 1890s. Fortunately, these garbage stories can be crosscheck/cross referenced with the already well established European eyewitness historical accounts of Benin history.

RedboneSmith:
It should be stated that Ubulu-Uku traditions do not agree with Benin traditions on how the war ended. Ubulu-Uku maintains that the war ended in a stalemate and Obi Olise survived it to reign in Ubulu-Uku till he died of old age.

There is a quarter in Ubulu-Uku today called Umuidu (Idu descendants) which was founded by some Benin soldiers that took part in the war. After the campaign failed (so says Ubulu-Uku traditions) some Benin soldiers, afraid to return to Benin and face the wrath of the Oba, decided to settle down at Ubulu-Uku and were graciously absorbed.

There is no objective reason why the Edo-centric version should be held to be the accurate version, and the Ubulu-Uku one as false.

Adesuwa and Obi of UBULU-UKU history is a very popular history, it was even made into a nollywood movie as you have confirmed yourself. Obi olise head was said to have been publicly displayed in Benin for seven days.

I have never heard that Obi Olise survived the war.

Secondly, this is not the first time you've heard a contrary view on Benin/Anioma/Igbo history, there has been atleast two previous occasions you have promised to provide evidence of your claims without fulfilling your promise.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no tradition in UBULU-UKU confirming what you have just claimed.

1. When I first posted an extract from Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe autobiography where he claimed that his ancestors were from the royal household of Benin, you claimed you have Zik's writings from the 1940s that contradicted his 1970 autobiography, based on your claim others have made the same claim, I have repeatedly requested from you and others that copied you for the said 1940s Zik writings but you are yet to provide it.

2. When I posted the 1875 Ajayi Crowder eyewitness accounts of the aboriginal Asaba people claiming to have migrated from Benin, Ajayi Crowder was on ground in Asaba and interviewed the indigines. He wrote that there were recent migrants from the east who had come to join the older Benin migrants. You wrote that you have a contrary writing that traces the Asaba aboriginal people to east of the Niger. I requested for your evidence, again, you have not yet provided it.

There is actually nothing wrong in holding a contrary opinion, the problem is when such contrary opinion is based on anti Benin sentiments and designed to deceive the less informed about the subject/history. I have cited two examples above were you have in the past made contrary opinions but failed to substantiate your claims despite promising to provide evidence.

There are other examples where you sneered at core easterners that narrate/inquire about Benin heard tradition, folklore and history in their Igbo towns and villages. You are always quick to tell them how such is not important. All these are apart from the tacit support you give to your fellow Yoruba revisionists friends whenever you think you can get away with it.

The reasons above is why I take this your so called UBULU-UKU tradition/version with a pitch of salt.

Cheers.