₦airaland Forum

UGBE634:
how will you explain the Oba title and the Ososomaye juju, Sango, Orunmila into Benin city.

What makes you think or believe the Oba title is yoruba in origin?

Are you aware that it was the Alaafin that was met on ground as the leader of the yoruba people in 1826 and his title was recorded as Alaafin not Oba. I have also pointed out to you that Ibadan didn't adopt the Oba title until 1955. I am sure you are also aware that the Oba of Lagos was formerly known as Eleko.

When you have questions, you seek answers but in your case you pick few information and make up stories fill up any missing gab.

You start with your migration stories but you are not convinced by Benin sending for a complete foreigner, so you decided that Benin must have been conquered.

Tomorrow someone with your mindset will pick up from where your theory stop and build on it by filling any inconsistencies with their own theories. In hundred years from now a fairytales developed into what people wants to believe as history. This is what has been happening to our history since 1897. Luckily for the Benin people whose history was documented for centuries, it easy for us to go back and separate the fairytales from our real history.

You are entitled to believe what you like, I only engaged you and point out your inconsistencies for the benefit of future Edo people that may genuinely be interested in their authentic history, not made up stories and theories that is not earlier than 1897.

UGBE634:
Or are the Okun yoruba people of the Niger Benue confluence area the answer?


stop repeating this stance, just because the
Ogie of Urhonigbe uses Okaevbo does not mean his Original tribal title for king is not Ogie. it's not what should come out of your mouth as a rebuttal.

Or because the Ogie of Udo has the Iyase as his title does not mean that the title Ogie is not his tribal title for king

You are fixated with Yoruba. When you genuinely seek the truth, you must allow the evidence to lead you. You don't have a fixed position in your head and then look for evidence to support your position. You must be flexible in your thought process, not stagnant.

Several Benin people have looked at the Benin/Ife connection story and couldn't reconcile the story with Benin history as documented. The Europeans whose ancestors documented Benin history couldn't also make sense of it.

The yoruba people themselves can't come up with any plausible link between Benin and Ife older than the reign of Oba Eweka the second.

Whilst dismissing the Benin Ife connection, Ryder postulated that if there were any connection between Benin and Yoruba it would have happened way back in history around the Nupe-Igala, Niger Benue confluence.

Have you seen my thread on Pa Idu, I suggest you go back and read it again. The story of Pa idu seems to flow in the same direction with what Ryder postulated.

There is a Pa Idu shrine in Benin which the oba worship, there is no Oduduwa or Ife shrine in Benin.

There is absolutely nothing concrete on ground apart from word of mouth to link Benin to Ife. Nothing in history linked Benin to Ife but the Europeans did recorded in the 1400s that they were told of Benin pilgrimage site around the Nupe-Igala Niger Benue confluence. There are ancient Benin artefacts that seems to depict Nupe-Igala people.

You are not the only one seeking the truth about Benin/Ife connection. If anyone can provide concrete evidence to back up the connection earlier the reign of Oba Eweka 2, I will begin to take it seriously.

You agree that there are gaps in the Benin/Ife migration story, but you are willing to fill the gabs with your own theories.

AutomaticMotors:
Wetin this one dey type

She wanted me to notice her. She can go back and continue to read quietly.

AutomaticMotors:
That guy is a disgrace to himself and wherever he hails from like I can't even fathom how the guy brain dey tick ....

It's even more pathetic considering the fact that a lot of work have been done by Benin people on this forum over the years. He is very adamant and ready to invent stories and assumptions to support his position. I don't understand why anyone would want to undermine over 600 years of his people's history.

..

UGBE634 read through the list and see when the Oba title was adopted in Ibadan. Oba Isaac Babalola Akinyele 1955-1964

Ba’ale Maye Okunade (1820-1830)
Ba’ale Oluyedun
Ba’ale Lakanle
Bashorun Oluyole 1850
Ba’ale Oderinlo 1850
Ba’ale Oyeshile Olugbode 1851-1864
Ba’ale Ibikunle 1864
Bashorun Ogunmola 1865-1867
Ba’ale Akere I 1867-1870
Ba’ale Orowusi 1870-1871
Are Ona Kakanfo Obadoke Latosa 1871-1885
Ba’ale Ajayi Osungbekun 1885-1893
Ba’ale Fijabi I 1893-1895
Ba’ale Oshuntoki 1895-1897
Ba’ale Fajinmi 1897-1902
Ba’ale Mosaderin 1902-1904
Ba’ale Dada Opadare 1904-1907
Ba’ale Sunmonu Apampa 1907-1910
Ba’ale Akintayo Awanibaku Elenpe 1910-1912
Ba’ale Irefin 1912-1914
Ba’ale Shittu Latosa (son of Are Latosa) 1914-1925
Ba’ale Oyewole Foko 1925-1929
Olubadan Okunola Abass 1930-1946
Olubadan Akere I 1946
Olubadan Oyetunde I 1946
Olubadan Akintunde Bioku 1947-1948
Olubadan Fijabi II 1948-1952
Olubadan Alli Iwo 1952
Olubadan Apete 1952-1955
Oba Isaac Babalola Akinyele 1955-1964
Oba Yesufu Kobiowu July 1964 – December 1964
Oba Salawu Akanni Aminu 1965-1971
Oba Shittu Akintola Oyetunde II 1971-1976
Oba Gbadamosi Akanbi Adebimpe 1976-1977
Oba Daniel ‘Tayo Akinbiyi 1977-1982
Oba Yesufu Oloyede Asanike I 1982-1994
Oba Emmanuel Adegboyega Operinde I (1994-1999)
Oba Yunusa Ogundipe Arapasowu I (1999-2007)
Oba Samuel Odulana Odugade I (2007-2016)

UGBE634:
how do we now explain the Oba title and the strange gods? Can we settle for the fact that the Oba must have been an "Ekue"

Benin goes back into antiquity. I am sure you read the burial of an Oba of Benin that was written about in the 1500s. The writer said the tradition went back to ancient times, meaning Benin already had an ancient civilisation as far back as the 1500s. Did you read the summary of Ryder I just posted, read it. If Benin had any connection with the people that later became yoruba (oyo) it would have been in the Nupe-Igala Niger Benue confluence like Ryder postulated.

Also stop assuming that Oba is yoruba in origin. Every yoruba rulers had their individual titles such as Ewi, Eleko, Ooni, Alaafin, Olu, Baale etc, until very recently.

UGBE634:
Nazee this seem to be the closest way to the truth, maybe we have to really be serious with this search and get our brothers in those countries of portugal, dutch and others to interprete those early Bini works for us.

The Europeans have already done the interpretations of early Benin history for us and below is the summary.

davidnazee:
The dutch historian A.F.C Ryder points out in his work that… "next to nothing is known about the Yoruba people themselves at this early
date, and the assertion that Benin sent for an alien (yoruba) ruler instead of accepting one of their numbers was inherently implausible”

I believe we should be patient with UGBE634, he needs help. Hopefully he will see the truth.

UGBE634:
what do you want me to think, since it is proven Ekaladerhan died at Ughoton, an outright invite of a stranger would not make sense. The situation of a foreign culture (the Oba title already insinuate it is foreign)in another land most times involves blood and war- there is a missing link in history samuel

The very fact that a story doesn't make sense to you doesn't give you right to invent your own story to fill in the suppose missing gap.

Below is the summary of an extensive work done on Benin history by Ryder. What Ryder is saying is that the current Benin/Ife connection doesn't agree with what the Europeans recorded about Benin history from the 1400s or 15th century.

UGBE634:
I am up for truth and not partisan argument,why is the epicenter of the Edo Civilization using Oba instead of Ogie

If there is anything we can seem to take home is the fact that the Oba seem to be more western than anything else

The Oba title more than not seem intuitively not an Indigenous title, it is not what I can stomach, it is not what I have been able to digest.

To me there seem to have been a launch in attack and maybe the aborigines in Benin city were conquered and the Oba stool and title situated. That invitation does not really make sense to me, there is a missing link in history that is yet not properly explained

It would seem that the people migrated to the Usen area and an attack was launched at the centre to defeat those in charge and certainly take over power. That seem to account for the warlike nature of the ruling dynasty

Can you see how you are making assumptions to support your narrative. You are no longer convinced that there was an invitation but an attack that defeated the original Benin people, are you really serious right now? Not even the Alaafin and the Ooni went this far. Yet you claimed to be searching for the truth and defending Benin history.

UGBE634:
I never said Usen is a Yoruba town, I said technically[/b]meaning it is a yoruba town by [b]ancestry even though they have integrated into Edo.

But how do you explain the fact that Oba Eweka and Akenzua's history of migration was in tandem with what the Usen people have but only changed with Eredieuwa

The question you should ask is why did the history of migration started with Oba Eweka 2. Even in Oba Eweka era, Dr Egharevba was silent on Oduduwa's origin. Oba Erediawa only completed the narrative, he went back and gave reason as to why Oranmiyan was sent for... because they believe he was a Benin prince by blood. Even if the story was true, Erediawa completion of the narrative would make more sense because Benin was too established to invite a complete foreigner to rule over her.

There are several Benin oral traditions that revolved around several past Obas, the history of Oba Ewuare 1, Ewuakpe/Iden, Emotan, Imaguero, Esigie/Ida, even till Oba Adolor, the father of Oba Ovonramwen, etc. How come none of these oral traditions mention any migration from Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Benin history didn't start with Oba Eweka 2 in 1914.

By the time you push the Benin/Ife connection backwards before the reign of Oba Eweka 2, the narrative unravel and fall apart.

What is the meaning of Ovonramwen in yoruba? Ovonramwen is just one reign before Eweka 2.

How come Oba Ovonramwen didn't talked about migration from Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Why didn't Oba Adolor, the father of Oba Ovonramwen talked about Benin/Ife connection when he was extensively interviewed by Button in 1865.

Why didn't the Alaafin talked about Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan when he was extensively interview by Hugh Clapperton in 1824. The Alaafin talked about the oba of Benin in that 1824 interview but as a friend not a brother or children of Oranmiyan as was later claimed in the 1900s.

If you are really interested in the true history of Benin, you should expand your data collection beyond and earlier than 1897.

..

TAO11:
You are testing the waters to see if I’m still active here, right? 😂

Clearly I damaged your mental health while I was here. You couldn’t stop thinking about TAO11.

A simple challenge in response to your self-consoling claims above:
Paste one link (just one) where you challenged me as you claimed, and I left without debunking you till you fled. Just one link from anywhere on Nairaland will do.

Lastly, why do you insist on Nairaland that Benin has no connection to its father, Ifẹ. Yet on Facebook you hold the view that they had ancient connections??

Why? 🤣

You must have been reading someone else on Facebook.

The truth is you did more to push people like me to discover that the Benin/Ife connection was fabricated after 1896, I have to give you some credit for that. Anyway how have you been.

macof:
I'm sure the man is intelligent enough to understand the concept of data collection from vast sources.
Ogiamien, Oba Palace, Usen, Ife, older Benin accounts as recorded by Europeans etc

That is after all how history is done properly

His data collection is limited. Written aspect of Benin history is more than 600 years... 1440s to date. His so called data collection is limited to the 1900s to date, what happened to previous 500 years of Benin history. Even his limited data collection is selective, he refused to fully disclosed the traditions he collected from the Oba palace. The Oba palace narrative says that Oduduwa was a Benin prince, I don't think this is what he is saying here.

Benin history didn't start in 1939, Benin history is not 100 years old, anybody trying to limit Benin history to the 1930s is doing a great disservice to the Benin people, we will not allow people with ulterior motives to undermine our illustrious history.

We don't want some mischievous people 50 years from now quoting 2023 as the beginning of Benin history.

Any of the descendants of the various tribes currently living in Benin can write whatever they like today and someone will be quoting it in 50 years time as if Benin history started in 2023 and future macof will be clapping for them as being intelligent.

The simple reason TAO11 left Benin history alone is because I challenged her to provide evidence of Benin/Ife connection earlier than 1824 and she couldn't. TAO11 was at her best when we allowed her to quote from the historical fairytales years of 1897 to date, but she fizzled out when the debate was expanded beyond the fairytales years and pushed back to just before the last independent Oba of Benin was deposed in 1897.

Today, TAO11 read debates about Benin history quietly.

AreaFada2 and UGBE634

My position is very simple and I believe others would agree.

People shouldn't be discussing myth and pretend it's history. I am only interested in authentic Benin history. A myth will be called out for what it is unless it can be backed up with concrete evidence.

1. Whoever Oduduwa was/is to various yoruba communities is not my concern and he/she/it seems to have been many things (female deity, male god, leader of yoruba people from the middle east and according to late Ooni someone that climbed down a chain from heaven) depending on which yoruba you speak to.

2. My concern is as it relates to Benin history and when it became part of our history. As far as I can seen it's not earlier than 1896.

3. Like AreaFada2 said, Benin have been home to various groups in Nigeria and what seems to have happened is that the descendants of these various groups and their sympathisers have been trying to rewrite Benin history since 1897 to favour their various groups. The yoruba descendants and sympathisers seems to have done the most damage to Benin history.

4. I once read a rejoinder to a writeup done by one Anioma man called Okpewho on Benin history, it was shocking. It was equally shocking that the rejoinder was written by an Urhobo man who tried to savage Benin history from the said Okpewho and guess what, that same work of Okpewho has been referenced on this forum by one of our Anioma neighbours to support his position.

5. Like I said before and it's worth repeating here. Oduduwa didn't appear in Benin history until after 1896. I am not interested in other people's myth that keep changing.

6. Myths that keep changing is not history.

7. UGBE634 seems to be here to advance the yoruba narrative in expense of the palace narrative of the same story.

8. UGBE634 shouldn't be upset to be called out when himself is saying he doesn't believe the palace position on Oduduwa but he believes the Usen position. What he is doing is select aspect of same palace narrative which he say is not true and mix them up with Usen narrative to draw his own picture, when it suites him, he quotes the Uzama and when it doesn't he says he doesn't believe them. When yoruba people on this forum did same, they were challenged and UGBE634 cannot be allowed to take their place.

9. The desperation to write yoruba into Benin history started after oba Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar in 1897.

10. UGBE634, Benin history didn't start in 1939. I only engaged you because of those that may read you and think your position, which you are entitled to, is the majority positions of Benin on this forum. Your position as far as I can see is a minority position that doesn't represent the majority of Benin on this forum.

11. Late Oba Erediawa and late Ooni had a public disagreement on the personage of Oduduwa. The Usen version which UGBE634 is promoting is the Yoruba version, UGBE634 admitted that Usen is a yoruba town, so UGBE634 cannot be promoting a yoruba version of the same story and claim to be defending Benin interest.

UGBE634:
This was collected in 1939 from local people in Usen, it appears that the several communities in yorubaland had their own account of Oduduwa. The Binis did not start going to school on time, the Usens might not have had access to johnson's work at the time, so they were telling the story as they know it.

Of course we know the Uzama story is not true, but that should give us an inkling on the fact that the Usens and maybe other yoruba communities seem to have had the Oduduwa and Oranmiyan story as an actual person.

1. Who collected the story in Usen In 1939? And who gave the account?

2. Did you seen the thread on Asaba. Incase you didn’t, it started by someone claiming that a tradition was collected in Asaba dating back to early 1911 stating that early Asaba people were Igbo/Ibo, I presented an older account that dates back to 1865 written by Ajayi Crowder who stated that as of 1865 the original Asabans migrated from Benin.

You keep making the same mistake that make people suspect you as not being Edo. You pick and choose which myth or lie you believe, what make an Usen account of the same fallacy more authentic than that of the palace?

You completely ignored the fact that no one mentioned this so called aspect of Benin history for over 400 years of documentations. You and few others operate as if Benin history began in 1939.

The earliest account of Oduduwa is almost 100 years older than 1939 and it started as a myth.

If the Oduduwa story is correct, it would have been almost 800 years old by 1939. So you are saying Usen people remember 800 years unwritten history of Oduduwa that the yoruba themselves couldn't remember.

Did you seen how the tradition that traces Asabans to Benin change between 1865 and early 1900s. A period of less than 50 years. You somehow think human memory can go back as far as 800 years to recount unwritten events. People think you have issues with or against the palace or you are anti Benin or have an agenda but I will like to believe that you are not very well informed.

Edo in this forum have done so much is the past few years to separate fairytales and fabrications from our authentic history.

Sultan Bello was probably one of the first to write about yoruba history around 1820s and by 1826 the first Europeans visited the Alaafin and collected the traditions of the yoruba people. Oduduwa is not mentioned in both early accounts

If you want to be taken seriously, you will have to produce evidence dating back to 1896 that linked Benin with Oduduwa. Benin kingdom was destroyed in 1897. So I am not asking too much.

Life is a continuous learning process. We should be able to change our positions in the face of new facts otherwise we are not better than religious bigot and fanatics. Most of us believe most of the fairytales in Benin history started after the fall of Benin in 1897. If you have a contrary evidence produce it or continue to enjoy your fairytales.

You seem to have a fixed unmovable position otherwise it should have bothered you that no Oba of Benin, no Benin Prince and Princesses had a yoruba name throughout Benin history till 1897.

Anybody can write any nonsense today and future UGBE634 will be quoting and referencing it as the truth.

Orhogbua:
1. Yes that is true out of all the nigerian kingdoms Benin has been extensively recorded compared to the rest except Kanem and the hausa states to an extent

2. Also true

3.Thats true to an extent Benin tradition says that ife sent a prince to benin to claim the position of oba on the behest of the edo elders or "uzama"

4 Not neccesarily an ife sculpture was taken from the palace of the oba showing some links

Phase two

1 I do because of said sculpture found in the palace also during the reign of the warrior kings the obas had not invaded ife but towns that used to be under its control were taken,and its never explained why?

2 Personally oduduwa being Yoruba or edo means nothing both kingdoms (Benin and yoruba kingdoms) have cultures which claim him but are both different peoples cultures and languages,but personally i see him as being neither as nothing but a migrant leader into ife during the war with the drunken king obatala

No i do not beleive oduduwa fell from heaven or is from saudi arabia unless others have proof

Are you aware that early Yoruba writers believed or claimed Oduduwa was a female deity, not even a male human everyone is now claiming? Like I alluded to earlier, the stories have been changing since 1897.

It was Hausa/Fulani Sultan that told the Europeans that the yoruba people were led to Nigeria from the middle east/Saudi Arabia. Oduduwa wasn't mentioned by Sultan Bello as that leader. Like I said before, early Yoruba historians believed Oduduwa was a female deity. Oduduwa story started as a myth.

Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife were not mentioned in the first 400 years of documented Benin history. The Oduduwa story began after 1888. Most Benin people don't take the Oduduwa story seriously, apart from reading it in a book, most ordinary people are not even aware of it outside of the palace. It's not a popular story/history amongst the Benin people.

These are few things you most Know.

1. Benin history was extensively documented by the Europeans from late 1400s to late 1800s, a period of about 400 years.

2. The last independent Oba of Benin before the British put an end to the Benin Kingdom/empire in 1897 was Oba Ovonramwen Nogbaisi (ruled 1888–1897), by this time Benin already have about 400 years of documented history by Europeans and locals such as Ajayi Crowder.

3. Nobody has so far be able to provide any documented sources that is dated before the reign of Oba Ovonramwen to support Benin/Ife connection. In other words no one can provide documented prove that Benin had any relationship with Ife before 1888.

4. There are no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history before 1888. There are no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin first 400 years of documented history.

5. Benin kingdom was destroyed by the British in 1897.

1897 to date: (A new Benin history was created on paper with no evidence from the past)

Phase 2 of Benin history.

1. Documents were written after 1888 that claimed that Benin had relationship with Ife, there are two sources

A. Yoruba sources claimed that Oba of Benin was a son of Oranmiyan who was a son of Oduduwa who once ruled Ife. Most yoruba sources believed that Oduduwa was from the middle east/Saudi Arabia.

B. Benin sources agreed with the yoruba sources expect on the origin of Oduduwa. Benin sources believed that Oduduwa was a banished Benin prince who found his way to Ife In the 11th century.

1. So do you believe that Benin had any relationship with Ife before 1888 in the absent of documented evidence?

2. Do you believe Benin oral sources that didn't only claimed Oduduwa as Benin prince but also provided a time period of the 11th century.

Or

3. Do you believe the yoruba sources that claimed that Oduduwa was from the middle east or Saudi Arabia.

AutomaticMotors:
How many times does the Oba have to sink it into your skull that the oduduwa the Yorubas are obsessed with was from Benin?

UGBE634:
It is proven that he died at Ughoton

Ugbe634:

You can't have it both ways, you are supporting your Benin/Yoruba connection by relying on Benin palace sources. Same palace sources in the person of the Oba (Erediawa) himself claimed that Ekaladerhan is Oduduwa and you are saying you disagree because it's proven that he died in Ughoton.

You cannot eat your cake and have, you cannot select what suits you. If your most trusted sources of Benin/Yoruba connection is the palace, then you have to believe everything they say because you are not in a position to prove or contradict the palace on the personage of Ekaladerhan.

You approach history from a dogmatic perspective, you should be able to support your position with prove, you dont come across like someone that's interested in prove but what sounds okay by you.

I asked in my previous posts

1. Why no Oba of Benin had a yoruba name?

2. Why didn't Benin princes and Princesses bear yoruba names before 1897

3. Why didn't Ajayi Crowder write about Benin/yoruba connection Ajayi Crowder life saw the reigns of atleast three Obas of Benin.

4. Why didn't the Europeans write about Benin/Yoruba connection for 400 years before 1897.

5. Why can't anyone supply evidence to support Benin/yoruba connection before 1897.

Guy, you must expand your thought process, you seem like a nice guy. You shouldn't come along as someone that's here to undermine the efforts of Benin people who are genuinely researching their history.

I have said it repeatedly that I will change my position if anyone is able to convince me that Benin had anything to do with Ife before the 1800s, I don't think it should be too difficult.

When we ask questions, we expect answers but our yoruba neighbours just go quietly, only to resurrect their dogmatic position next time, you seems to be doing the same, probably this is why almost all Benin in the forum doubt you are a Benin person.

Benin people ask questions and not scared of convincing answers.

You cannot keep on saying the oba of Benin is yoruba without showing any oba, prince or princess in Benin history pre-1897 with a yoruba name.

Those that believe you have an anti Benin and anti Oba of Benin agenda are upset because you are holding on to a position you cannot provide prove. You cannot disagree with the Oba on Ekaladerhan and then go on to claim he is yoruba because of Benin/Ife connection which was feed to you by the same palace sources which the Oba heads.

Ghostwon821:
I want people in Africa to understand the meaning of the word "history" and stop making up their "history" which is making us a laughing stock in the world, indeed educated people in Europe and Asia and America can see through your bs and they just conclude that we don't have any history. You guys are only fooling other uneducated and gullible Africans, nobody else is fooled.

Again you make a very valid point. This is why
Benin history has been introduced into the British secondary school curriculum, in doing so, the British started their research in aspect of Benin history that they can backup with early independent European eyewitness accounts. Benin history was chosen to make children of black heritage lean about black African past glorious history pre slaving.

They are also considering verifiable materials on Ashanti empire. More materials and research is being done on Benin history to expand the scope. The Benin Kingdom/empire is the only one worthy of research in this regard so far in Nigeria, the Europeans know that most Africa history/stories that were written starting in the late 1800s by some so called Africa historians are not necessarily true.

Ghostwon821:
I think the reason the Obi of Agbor changed his title is that he wasn't raised by his father (his father died when he was 2 years old), he didn't learn his traditions from his father, he allowed a story teller to dupe him and that is why he changed his title.

You are very correct, but the Obi still acknowledges his Benin roots just like the Olu of Warri, Obi of Issele-Uku.

AreaFada2:
Folks, another history about a hunter from Benin and Ife as founders of Mushin in Lagos State. Make we dey mark them o.

We nor dey follow anybody drag anything o. But if lies and envy began their journey 50 years before truth, truth will one day overtake them kia kia.

When we say Edo full everywhere, envious neighbours will say 7LGAs.

Gregyboy
UGBE634
Samuk
Etinosa
AutomaticMotors

The future versions of these stories will not even reference Benin, we can already see it with Owo history. People just wake up and manufacture stories as histories.

gregyboy:
That's is true, but people should stop using the false history to judge the oba illegitmacy

And the oba on his part should make polices to unite edo people instead of upsetting the edo people with his actions

I really don't know the issue the oba have with the usen people but that man was extremely bitter towards it

Elawure of Usen wants to be independent of Oba of Benin, unfortunately, he is in Edo south, same with Ijaw people in gelegele that want an independent ijaw king in Edo south.

gregyboy:
Its only ugbe that refuse to accept the truth I guess he has something to benefit from it which he has refused to say I am thinking he is usen, to show how we have done justice to the fables of the ife and benin tales people in nairaland don't create topic about it anymore

I saw your post on the edo remittance to Nigeria it pained me I missed it, I was quite busy yesterday our edo brothers are not playing oversea

I hope one day Nigeria become a better place and so they can all come home with their knowledge to build the once mighty empire to his glory

Edo to the world, the only minority in Nigeria that looks like a mjour tribe

Yes Edo is going to be great again. Final plans on the cultural district was submitted to governor Obaseki today, the German government is sending a 40 man delegation to Benin city next week. The diaspora in already playing a great role and more to come.

Ugbe is from Ugo not Usen. Ugo, Isi, Urhonigbe etc in Orhionwon all have more prominent contributions to Benin history and traditions compared to Usen. Ugbe is a nice guy, do not forget some of us once believed the Benin/Ife connection.

I have said it before that if anyone produces a concrete evidence to back up Benin/Ife relationship, I will reconsider my position, but as it stands, there is no good historical evidence in Benin history and traditions to support it.

gregyboy:
Even the popular tao11 has seen the light on the false history

Not just TAO11, I think many people have seen that the Benin/Ife story doesn't hold water.

Oduduwa himself didn't exist in early Yoruba history as a person. How can someone that didn't exist as a human being in early Yoruba history be their father and ancestor of oba of benin.

OKAIDUN:
You cannot be a Uniben student and a graduate at the same time, you already expose your folly, you are gregyboy the Auchi student or graduate,you write like him, and worse still you directed me to your deadpost. Of all Binis here, gregyboy.


Delauhe means everything idiot, timestamp 09:57 -10-30, the Esogban made it clear where he came from


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZQZl-yyNqE


Some communities are homogeneous, and tend to greet alike. Usen is a family on its own, it is a small community, home and abroad should be about 60- 70 thousand, lesser than some families in Benin. The fact that they migrated together did not tell your 0 byte brain that they are a family

The people of Ehor aside their king also greet Alike. They greet Delaeho to show their homogeinity as a family. The people of Ehor also greet to show their village
time stamp 9:45 to 9:55


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOBY3QxokR0

I graduated before you were born, we are not mate, I meant it literally and otherwise.

I can see you are really having a tough time with the Thebadpolitician

The truth is you are one of the very few Benin people on this forum that still believe that the Oba migrated from somewhere. Most of us on this forum have gone beyond this, we are now trying to sort out the confusion that came into Benin history after 1897. There is nothing presented so far to support the oba coming from Ife. Ife doesn't necessarily mean Uhe.

I recently saw the video where Imaseun Izoduwa disagreed with the Esogban on the Ife story, mind you Izoduwa is also very close to foremost Benin historians and palace chiefs.

Anyone that will be taken seriously on Benin history will have to produce documents on Benin history dating from 1896 and backward to the 1400s to back up what they are saying.

It should worry you that Benin history from 1400s to late 1800s, a period of over 400 hundred years doesn't mention Ife. The Catholic Church actually had a mission and resident missionaries in Benin city that documented various aspects of Benin history. These missionaries were in Benin city for years. The Catholic Church have huge archive spanning centuries on Benin history.

The Italian ambassador informed governor Obaseki on 5th December 2022 that they will be celebrating the 200 years anniversary, next year of an Italian archaeologists that worked and died in Benin city on December 5th 1823, he was buried in Ughoton. None of these guys wrote about Benin/Ife relationship.

AreaFada2

Ologbo147

After over 100 years of the distortion of Benin history, some Benin people are now beginning to ask questions.

Edo people resident in the various European countries that archive Benin early history will play a vital part in the future research of early Benin history.

The Benin/Ife connection story started after Oba Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar, Oba Eweka 2 as a young Prince faced an uncertain future, powerful chiefs such as Agho Obaseki took advantage of the situation and young Prince Eweka 2 most have seen the importance of forming alliance with those that the British have favoured such as the Ooni of Ife.

The reigns of the two previous Oba, Ovonramwen and Adolor were well documented but nothing was said about Ife.

Benin history forming the foundation of yoruba history is very important to the yoruba people because it allow them dates the era of Oduduwa/Oranmiyan back to the 11th century.

Traditions were invented in Benin and written into the coronation of the oba to support the Benin/Ife connection, Oba Erediawa 2 must have seen the problems some of these will cause to his future descendants and he put in place some corrections, this is why Oba Ewuare 2 didn't observe the Ekiokpagha treaty during his coronation.

Under this arrangements, yoruba history gets backdated from 1824 to the 11th century using Benin history. The Oba of Benin become the authentic heir to Oranmiyan who is the authentic heir to Oduduwa because only male direct descendants of the oba of Benin become an oba. The yoruba monarchical structures are not the same because they have different ruling houses and female oba has also ruled in Ife according to Ife history.

Currently and as long as the history stands, the oba of Benin by blood is the most authentic direct male descendant of Oranmiyan/Oduduwa, the Benin palace simply played a fast one on those early Yoruba people/historians that wanted to steal Benin history. Oba Ewuare 2 is now celebrating Oodua (Ekaladerhan) festival annually.

The first writers of yoruba history wrote that Oduduwa was a female deity, this was before they decided to link Benin to Ife.

As the Benin/Ife connection become mainstream, It is important that Edo people know the authentic history.

UGBE634:
Banyxchi, the Iyase of Benin said his Igbe family in London and not the entire Uk cannot be less than 20. The Iyase of Benin is a very educated and sober man and there was emphasis on London, so he clearly knew what he was saying. Time stamp 20:50 to 21:02. When I tell you we have a mighty diaspora, I am not kidding.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCIBTmlI7hA

The Italian ambassador is currently in Benin City, he told audiences at the states dinner organised by Obaseki on 5th December 2022 that the population of Nigerians in Italy is 150,000. Obaseki disclosed that the ambassador informed him of Italian provinces with high population of Edo indigines, they are to collaborate on a road show next year to showcase business opportunities in Edo to Italian business people to come and invest.

The winner of 2022 Italian masterchef is an Edo lady.

It's estimated that between 2 to 6 billion dollars of the about 20 billion diaspora annual remittances to Nigeria goes to Edo state.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XX7DnXfOiM

UMUAZEE:
A lot of things don't add up about the Benin-Ife connection, especially the Oranmiyan story.
Oranmiyan supposedly came to Igodomigodo trying to be king but the people resisted and he was driven out but yet his son (Eweka) became king.
I don't believe Oranmiyan was the father of Oba Eweka..
Oba Eweka 1 is deeply rooted in our folklore even the name Ogiso which predates Oranmiyan is in our folklore but Oranniyan is not there.. it's like Edo folklore doesn't remember Oranmiyan.

The Oranmiyan story was written into Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897, this is why no one has been able to backup the story earlier than 1897.

In my opinion, any person, mostly Edo person that believes and link the Benin throne to Ife has been miseducated on Benin history. If Benin had anything to do with Ife, it would have been way back in antiquity, I don't believe the relationship is the way we were told. It's difficult for some people to unlearn what they have been told for too long irrespective of were the evidence lead.

Between 1400s to 1897, there was no Benin prince or princess that had a yoruba name, why?

No Benin monarch in history had a yoruba name or adopted a yoruba title, why?

All yoruba monarchs in history had yoruba names and titles, why was Benin different?

AreaFada2:
As for the bolded, elderly folks back then had no access of means to research but today we do. It would be our fault if we didn't do so.

I was quite surprised when current Oba included Oranmiyan among list of Obas. I prefer the stance of Oba Erediauwa. Oranmiyan stuff is too controversial in our history and has not been resolved yet. I don't know when he was crowned, by whom, when or where he was presented to people of Benin as the new Oba. Eweka I on the other hand was clearly crowned and his life and times well-known in Benin. Eweka I as first Oba of current dynasty removed any uncertainties, not Oranmiyan. A lot of things need to be looked at afresh with all honesty and boldness.
Ajayi Crowther travelled across Benin to Igboland and even narrated how the Benininess of Asaba was being diluted by influx from across the Niger, yet he didn't mention Benin-Ife link. That alone shows how recent and political the whole thing is.

Many Benins have lived a fairly comfortable life. No need to head for all corners of Nigeria to hustle for food. We have very fertile land, families support each other and we are not people who want to make money by any means traditionally.
Only very few of our ladies marry to follow their husbands to another state. Instead they normally meet their hubby in Benin or Lagos and reside there. Or even move abroad.

When leaving Benin or Lagos, it's mostly to go abroad. Not to Damaturu, Offa or Kafanchan. Of late some have moved to Abuja, another melting pot.
Therefore, we are quite oblivious of how deep tribalism runs across 9ja. We also typically don't queue up for FG job, police or military recruitment and we care less pr not even of the discrimination in recruitment these days.

It seems we are one of the most prepared people to stay on our own if 9ja crumbles.

I believe we have to look critically at the transition from the Ogiso dynasty to the Oba dynasty. I know this is a very controversial area that many people don't want to get involved in. Our French brother actually argued that it has always been one dynasty and the two dynasty was a recent thing, I am inclined to believe. I don't believe the Ogiso dynasty was fabricated as he suggested because there are too many oral traditions across various Edoid tribes to support the Ogisos.

The difficulty for me is that most early European written accounts of Benin history are not in English and many haven't been translated. I would like to know if the title of any Benin monarch is buried in these early writings, I want to know when it changed from Ogiso to Oba, the earliest I can find the use of oba is Button written accounts in 1865.

In 1824, the British was in yoruba land and between 1824 and 1891 the British was very active in Nigeria, both the British and their local agents such as Ajayi Crowder had numerous written accounts of that period and different tribes but nothing was written to support Benin/Ife connection.

Ryder in 1965 came to the same conclusion that Benin/Ife connection wasn't recorded in early Europeans writings of Benin and that it was a recent (after the fall of Benin) tradition.

Since I can't find any evidence to link Benin to Ife, the two dynastic history of Benin become an issue for me.

I also noticed that since I divided Benin history into pre-1897 and post 1897, the insults from some of our yoruba neighbours greatly reduced, some even become less interested in the Benin/Ife connection. I even put up $1000, one thousand US dollars for anyone that can provide any written evidence before 1895 that support Benin/Ife connection, till now no one on this forum have been able to provide any evidence.

I will not want to go on here why I think the Benin palace is promoting the Benin/Ife connection, I have already made my thought known in the past.

After the fall of Benin in 1897, Benin history was changed to align with the political situation of the time, Benin history still carries that distortion.

The proclaiming of Oranmiyan as an Oba by the current Oba is a continuation of the post 1897 political history of Benin.

Yoruba history since 1824 have followed the same pattern of continously moving the goalposts, every yoruba towns and villages now traces their origin to Ife, including those that once claimed Sudan and many other places outside Nigeria.

UGBE634:
what I meant is that Benin city Is an economic powerhouse herself. It is only Lagos that can be said to be noticeably better than Benin city in terms of economic strength.

You are correct.