₦airaland Forum

SlyDev:
I'm talking about 18 century, the real Yoruba were still around middle belt.

The story was told in the 15th century not 18th century. Typical Ife artworks didn't depict the messagers seen in Benin artworks with whiskers and wearing crosses around their neck.

Abohboy:
I also read that terracotta in Ife has cross symbols but there's no evidence for this please kindly provide images and it still doesn't make sense that it took over a year to go from Benin City To Ife a time of 5 months would make more sense even if they're moving slowly in any case I read a journal on Jstor and it says ambassadors normally wer egiven cat whisker markings after visiting the Oghane and terracotta like this has on;y been sighted once in Ife meanwhile in Nupe and igala land it is used and seen a lot more i'm not disputing that it's not the Ooni but I just want to look at every single possibility

It's Ogane not Oghane. This small details matters.

There are numerous Benin artworks depicting messagers with whiskers wearing crosses around their neck.

I haven't seen similar Ife artworks depicting messagers with whiskers wearing crosses.

The Benin artifacts depicting messagers with whiskers wearing crosses actually goes against the narrative in the story.

The Benin artworks are obviously not depicting Benin messagers because Benin people didn't have whiskers.

The Benin artworks depicting messagers with whiskers are depicting messagers who are not from Benin but from somewhere outside Benin, possibly Igala, Nupe or somewhere else.

The story says Benin messagers are sent to the east Ogane, the messager is gifted a cross, the Benin artworks says the opposite, it's the foreign messagers that came to Benin that have crosses around their necks.

I can't upload any images now. But simply Google Benin artworks with messagers wearing crosses and compare them to Ife.

PS: Benin depicted themselves and others they encountered including the Europeans in their artworks in remarkable details. Messagers with whiskers that are wearing crosses depicted in Benin artworks were not Benin messagers.

macof:
Anybody can suggest anything but nobody can prove it is of Nupe origin.
Should it be Igala.. It is the same thing I'm saying then as Igala language is a Yoruboid language
Linguistics analysis shows "Oghene" is derived from Yoruboid and in this language family it is the ruler of Ife... As used by the Edo people too. So what exactly is the problem?



PS. Nupe would be North, so that is out of it if you want to take the "east" seriously

The problem is we are talking about the location not the language. We are also talking about the brass cross not found in Ife and the journey time of 20 moons or 20 months or almost 2 years.

Ogane was said to be located east of Benin. Ife is west.

Ife is not in the same location as Igala.

You guys can now see how difficult it is to defend lies to those not interested in fairytales

Your usual audience are those who lacks real history like yourself and dwells on fairytales but when you come across those who have no sympathy for fairytales, your stories fall apart and crumble like a pack of cards.

PS: TAO11 is already sweating profusely , her usual Igbo supporters that she normally deceive with long gibberish can't be found to lend her moral support despite repeatedly calling on them. The guys don't want any embarrassments. They rather read quietly from the sidelines.

TAO11:
You try. Happy now or still sad?

How many times did I tell you, East was not West.

Look at the way you have embarrassed yourself before everyone.

Abohboy is fast losing confidence in you. You better hurry up and show us the evidence of the brass cross your Ogane sent to the Oba of Benin and the one he wore around his neck. Have you contacted Igun Street in Benin city yet.

According to you the European that navigated all his way to Benin city and back to Europe didn't understand the geopolitical location East.

KingOKON:
.

samuk read this very SWEET NEWS though it is something the world already knows

http://punchng.com/bini-not-yoruba-are-original-owners-of-lagos-ajayi-bembe/

I hope some of their Igbo supporters see this. One argument worn, next, they will deny saying Oba of Benin is Yoruba.

Some Yoruba here will want us believe that Benin to Ife, a distant of 174 miles took almost 2 years in 1485 for Benin messager to travel and by late 1500s Benin to Lagos, a distant of 196 miles was being travelled daily because the Lagos Benin expressway was already built/tarred and Benin messagers were travelling between Lagos and Benin in the newly invented motor cars.

Is there nothing Yoruba will not tell us? No matter how dumb and illogical.

Don't also forget that they want us to believe that the direction east is west.

And let's wait for the evidence of the brass cross. This one will even shock the Devil out of the Devil himself.

davidnazee:
Try reason properly before you post your rubbish..
A messenger sent on an errand to ife will not travel at slow pace and from your unreasonable calculations will not take 4 yrs (round trip to deliver and bring back an answer).
Its obvious you are talented at writing long essays (full of rubbish).

Almost 4 years round trip for the new Oba to get confirmation from this Ogane. There were Obas in Benin whose reigns didn't even last a year.

Don't be surprised if the Yoruba hurriedly go to Igun Street to buy and display a brass cross as evidence

Benin to Lagos is about 196 miles and Benin to Ife is about 174 miles.

Messagers from Lagos military garrison were sent daily to Benin as of 1602. By 1602, Benin already established a military garrison in Lagos. This garrison would have been built in the 1500s.

Someone wants us to believe that it would have taken nearly 2 years for Benin messager to get to Ife in 1485.

The way the Yoruba write A' Ba' Da' B D junks of fairytales would have been very hilarious and entertaining if not that there are people here who actually believes these cock and bull stories.

Macof is on the other thread mutilating the history of Ada and Eben

Abohboy:
What you see there is basically as much as I know there's a ruler 250 leagues east of Benin who is the most powerful in the Guinea whether it's a priest or an actual king is unknown or whether it is a misunderstanding and the Oba was saying their God lies in the east as in where the sun rises or whether the Oba meant West but instead said east because of some religious belief is all unknown till today nobody knows who or where the Oghane is and there is still little physical evidence of Brass Crosses anywhere in Nigeria but i'm sure someone somewhere will soon find a clue to this query

250 league is Dutch/German league which is about 900 miles.

The location is east

The travelling time is 20 moons or 20 months (almost 2 years journey)

If this location existed, it would have certainly been outside Nigeria.

rhektor:
Mention them and let the whole world know that they are not children of the person they claim that their father is

show us the Oba that said he was Yoruba and show us were he said it. This should be the simplest of assignment to you.

rhektor:
Wow! So can you please show us where anyone has claimed that Bini people are Yoruba? What we've always maintained here is that your Ọba is a full Yoruba man and y'all Edo are his slaves

Cc
TAO11

Well, atleast two Obas of Benin have categorically denied being Yoruba. Infact the last two were very explicit in denying being Yoruba. Should I believe you or them.

macof:
Lol.. No. Meaning You cannot say a thing like this



Clearly, a result of your inability to understand that yoruba is more than the standard Yoruba you might be familiar with.. Which was me even being lenient because many names of the past Omonoba are very easy to pronounce no matter the dialect or accent.
Infact some names have recognisable Yoruba meanings

Damn, when I thought we are beginning to reach a place were the Yoruba will see reasons with us

It seems this Benin/Ife arguments is going to carry on for a long time

macof:
Mumu is what makes you not realise yoruba language has many dialects and Yoruba people have different accents

So Benin is a dialect of Yoruba. I thought TAO11 was the only one desperate and deluded.

macof:
I like how after seeing that nobody pays attention to your Bini revisionist campaign of turning oduduwa into a Bini Prince
You guys on this forum have unanimously decided to do away with any Ife connection at all ... Well almost unanimously
Now oduduwa is no longer a Bini Prince, Bini had no relationship with Ife

I know it's heart breaking if you have been following my submissions, I have always been consistent since I discovered that Benin/Ife relationship started after Oba Ovonramwen.

How can Oba of Benin be Yoruba and all of them have such difficult Edo names that can break the strongest of Yoruba jaws, if they attempt to pronounce them . Can you pronounce Ovonramwen?

You guys told everyone that Yoruba was the official language of the Palace, my question is why just end with speaking Yoruba language, are the people forbidding Yoruba names, show me the Yoruba names in Benin history before Oba Eweka 2.

UGBE634:
There are more non negligible fact to prove that he is not from Ife than he is from. That of the Esans are the major Jaw breaker, to think most of their clans migrated during the reign of various Obas and don't and can't relate with is alarming. He was at best an Edo'n'ekhue

My brother, don't let them deceive you. The Oba is purely Benin. What do you understand by Edo orisiaghon (Edo is the center of the world) were everything began and Oba niaotor se evboebo (oba own all the land to Europe). In the olden days, Benin believes Oba own all land including Ife. Oba osa nogievanor means Oba is only second to God. After God, next is Oba of Benin. Everyone else including the Ooni is below the Oba.

These are some of the things you look at when the Yoruba come with their fairytales.

Benin lost all these when British destroyed and conquered Benin.

UGBE634:
This is a major Jaw breaker my brother, Not even one of their clans can relate with it, it is not in their Orals at all when many of their clan migrated during Ewuare's reign, not even Igueben that migrated during Esigie's reign. "Na ground na he dae see yansh wey dae shit", we will see where this forgery will lead us to. Onoyiso kor, oloyesoup ni

None of the Obas up till Oba Ovonramwen have any relationship with Ife. It all started after Ovonramwen. Esan are the closest to Benin and yet they don't subscribe to the Benin/Ife relationship. Urhobo and others tribes in Delta, Rivers and other parts of the southern and middle belt region that traces their origin to Benin are not aware.

Benin/Ife relationship is strictly Oba Eweka alliance with the Yorubas to safe his throne and dynasty that the British wanted to end.

There is absolutely no evidence of Benin/Ife relationship before Oba Ovonramwen was removed by the British.

tollyboy5:
Lol I'm coming back to this thread, this tao11, abi tao12 thinks she's smart.

I support no one besides truth.

How can TAO11 be smart when she has unwittingly exposed the meaning of Ooni in the Benin dictionary to mean a piece of kola use for prayers. She thought her Ooni met God in the Benin dictionary she presented.

In the Benin dictionary, Oghene when used to refer to the Ooni of Ife, is equivalent to I piece of kola that is broken into 5. Ooni is not even up to half a kola according to the Benin dictionary she presented.

She has been deceiving people here that Oba of Benin prays to the Ooni every morning, only for her own evidence to contradict her. The Oba of Benin uses a piece of kola Oghene or Ooni to pray to God. Oba of Benin doesn't pray to the piece of kola AKA Oghene AKA Ooni, he uses the kola to pray to God.

The dictionary is above, you can read it for the different meanings of Oghene, Oghene-osa.

Macof that was originally excited at what he thought was the holy grail to finally prove that Benin and Oba of Benin are Yoruba is now deflated ;

TAO12:
Here we go again guys:

Haha! Nairalanders come and see something.

Samuk said I edited his comment in the attachment below.

Let me wake you up Samuk: It is impossible for me to edit your post when your post is shown to be coming directly under your name — rather than under mine.

Did I just have to explain that? LMAO!

Samuk, you are clinically deluded. Take this serious. My two cents.

Cc: nisai, gomojam, Christistruth00, Ofunwa111, rhektor, RedboneSmith

Let's wait for those you call upon. Let see if they are brain dead like yourself.

Whilst we wait, let me add these few lines.

You wasted my time yesterday explaining your dictionary evidence to you. You are either too slow to understand, or you were under the influence of intoxicant. Which was it?

I even advised you on two occasions to get your head cleared and sober before going back to read the dictionary.

I have to literally explain the content of your 4 lines dictionary word for word, line by line, it took hours, till this morning before you got the gist and you have now completely abandoned the dictionary.

Your today's evidence is Samuk submission you are trying to take and spin out of context. So what is today's evidence met to prove? That Benin and Oba of Benin are Yoruba?

Back to your dictionary evidence to prove that Benin people and Oba of Benin are Yoruba:

The Benin people have no respect for the Ooni of Ife at all. The Ooni was equated to a piece of Kola after breaking the full kola into 5 pieces.

In TAO11 lack of understanding of dictionary wordings, she thought her Ooni met God in heaven, I have to break it down to her that her Ooni in the context he was used in the Benin dictionary wasn't more than a piece of kola used for prayers to the gods.

After I finally drilled this definition into her blocked brain, she got the gist and withdraw the dictionary evidence.

Today, she wants to start with new distraction.

Thanks to TAO11 delusion, Nairalanders now know the meaning of Ooni in the Benin dictionary. Oghene when used to refer to the Ooni of Ife means a piece of kola, after the kola is broken into five pieces. In the Benin dictionary, the Ooni is not up to a full kola, it's not even up to half a kola, Ooni is 1 fifth, 1 part of a kola after it's broken into 5 pieces.

Let her resubmit the dictionary evidence if shame will allow her to do so.

KingOKON:
.

Did BobRISKY tell you about the LATINIZED name of Ogane?

Her desperation knows no boundaries.

TAO12:
Haha! Nairalanders come and see something.

Samuk said I edited his comment in the attachment below.

Let me wake you up Samuk, it is impossible for me to edit your post when your post is shown to be coming directly under your name — rather than under mine.

Did I just have to explain that? LMAO! Samuk, you are clinically deluded. Take this serious.

My two cents.

Cc: nisai, gomojam, Christistruth00, Ofunwa111, RedboneSmith

Oops, I didn't see the dictionary evidence that says Benin are Yoruba. That one has faded after just one day of evidence. Every day you provide new evidence to support your lies.

TAO11 show us the dictionary evidence that proves Benin people are Yoruba. Don't be ashamed I am sure your fans will want to see it one more time.

TAO12:
You’re not even sure where to stay. You’ve been fleeing back and forth.

(1) You alleged that the dictionary must put osa next to oghene before oghene can refer to osa (God).

That was found to be a blatant falsehood considering that the phrase agwe_oghene is defined in reference to osa (God). Lmao!

(2) You fled in shame from the Bini dictionary now to WiKipedia — insisting in shame that oghene does not by itself refer to osa (God).

Again, you were caught pants down to be a liar as you already admit (as in the screenshot below) that oghene refers to osa (God).

You are clinically deluded, samuk.

Editing my posts and quoting me out of context wouldn't help you. Your dictionary evidence have thoroughly disgraced, embarrassed and exposed you as fraud. I know you rely on the low IQ of your followers not to verify your submissions.

The issue of Oghene which you relied upon to teach the Benin people and the Oba of Benin that their Yoruba have fallen flat on it's face, it has gone up in flames, you are now too ashamed to put it up again. Editing my posts and taking my comments out of context is now what you relied on.

You have referenced so called foreign experts, local experts, Nairalanders and yet your lies remains lies, the Benin people you have been trying to convinced for years that they and their Oba is Yoruba haven't yield an inch of ground.

Keep going, maybe one day you will be able to convince the Benin people how Yoruba they and their Oba are since this very important to you.

The project to convince Benin people that they and their Oba are Yoruba is a project TAO11 must complete.

TAO11 please show us one more time the Benin dictionary that says Benin people are Yoruba.

According to TAO11 the Ooni is Oghene (Urhobo) Oghene-osa(Benin) that created heaven and earth.

Just claiming Benin history, Benin Oba and Benin people is no longer enough.

TAO11 Ooni is now God almighty that people pray to.

Anybody that love that lady should keep eyes on her before she goes naked and enters the market.

TAO12:
Wikipidea? So, your straw-clutching with your Bini dictionary finally expired.

Now it’s Wikipedia’s turn. Anyways …

In the light of your failure with the Bini dictionary, do you still stand with your claim that Oghene does not mean God, unless it is suffixed with the word Osa?

Check the screenshot below before you answer.

Lies don’t last. Desist!

Peace!

Sorry, it's too late to spin your way out of this. Your dictionary definition have clearly discredited you, I will be surprised if you reference it next time.

According to Your evidence, Ooni is ogene or a piece of kola. Benin prays to Ogene-osa.

TAO12:
You must be really shivering right now to have typed the above highlighted incoherent words (also shown in the attached screenshot). LMAO!

Samuk, what do you have to say now that you've been exposed as a janus-faced, fatuous, delusional, little, pathological LIAR??

--------------------------------
The dictionary wrote: oghene-osa.

And you lied that oghene by itself has nothing to do with osa, unless osa appears next to it. A huge lie.

However, your lie was to be exposed by the example cited in the following line, viz. agwe_oghene.

First of all, there is no osa next the oghene here. Nor is there any osa next to agwe.

Yet, the definition of agwe_oghene as given in the dictionary is as follows: “an ugie consecrated to osa”

Remark:
agwe does not mean osa

ugie does not mean osa

How then does osa [God] appear in the meaning of the phrase: agwe_oghene?

The Answer:
The only word which describes osa is the very word oghene.

When will you cease being delusional? Seek help, samuk?

Peace.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Osalobua is the name for God in the Edo language. It is often abbreviated as Osa, which is commonly integrated into modern Edo names, such as Esosa, which means God's goodness or gift; Eghosa, God's time; and Efosa, God's blessings or wealth.

TAO12:
You must really think I’m from Benin to think you can lie freely.

The dictionary wrote: oghene-osa.

And you lied that oghene by itself has nothing to do with osa, unless osa appears next to it. A huge lie.

However, your lie was to be exposed by the example cited in the following line, viz. agwe_oghene.

First of all, there is no osa next the oghene here. Nor is there any osa next to agwe.

Yet, the definition of agwe_oghene as given in the dictionary is as follows: “an ugie consecrated to osa”

Remark:
agwe does not mean osa

ugie does not mean osa

How then does osa [God] appear in the meaning of the phrase: agwe_oghene?

The Answer:
The only word which describes osa is the very word oghene.

When will you cease being delusional? Seek help, samuk?

✌

Are you playing dumb or you are really dumb? Imagine someone that can't even comprehend 4 lines of the dictionary which she presented.

Were did I say ugie or agwe means osa.

Osa means God.

Agwe was never used on its own in the dictionary, it was written agwe_oghene to mean ugie.

TAO12:
Mr. Deluded, stop the nonsense you’re writing.

The same screenshot shows you another example under definition 1: “agwe_oghene” and still identifies the ague with Osa (i.e with God).

Where is the Osa beside the ague or beside the Oghene for the phrase agwe_oghene to be associated with God/Osa?

Be deluding yourself. Mumu.

The agwe_oghene is ugie that is consecrated to Osa.

Ogene, Oghene-osa and agwe_ogene all have different meanings according to the dictionary.

1. Ogene means Irreplaceable, unchangeable, Ooni and a piece of kola.

2. Oghene-osa means unchangeable God. The osa is God.

3. agwe_ogene means Ugie that is consecrated to osa or God.

The osa in the dictionary is the only reference to God, not Ogene. When Benin call Ooni Oghene, it doesn't mean God.

Lesson for you is that before you submit anything to support your arguments next time, ensure you read and understand them thoroughly in other not to embarrass yourself like this.

TAO12:
Stop feigning dumb. Even your people would be very disappointed in you to hear you blab.

Nowhere does your Benin dictionary say or imply that “oghene” must have Osa before it refers to God.

Instead Osa in Benin literally means God, while oghene is an attribute of that God.

The “unchangeable” or the “ irreplaceable” are both attributes of God. “Oghene” as such is in reference to God. This word also means the King of Ife. This word apart from referring to the king of Ife and God also sometimes refer to a piece of kola — all in Bini lingua.

However, the Benin dictionary added the last detail that: “ɔɣɛnɛ … cf. Yor. ɔɔni”.

In other words the Bini word, “oghene” [regardless of how ever it is used in Bini language] originally comes from the Yoruba language, viz. the word “Ooni”.

Get a grip samuk, befor you go full blown delude if you haven’t gone already.

Don't tell me you also have eyes problems.

The dictionary starts with two definitions which are irreplaceable and unchangeable. It then combined Ogene with Osa and came up with the meaning unchangeable God, the Osa being God and the Ogene being the unchangeable.

The dictionary then went on to say Ogene also means Ooni of Ife and a piece of kola, it further explains the piece of kola.

I am glad you are not actually clever enough to have let this slide, because that is what a clever person caught red handed would have done, you let it go quietly, but by engaging me back and forth, those that were not initially interested in the dictionary will now be forced to see for themselves what the arguments is all about, thereby exposing yourself further.

I initially didn't look at the dictionary but one thing say I should and lord and beyond TAO11 pants is on fire again.

TAO12:
Yes east if actual literal geographical description is the subject.

But, literal geographical description wasn’t the subject when your obas were directing prayers to Yorubaland (on the geographical west) and yet facing the rising-sun at dawn (on the geographical east).

In sum, Ile-Ife is reverentially known (from Atakpame to your kingdom; from Lagos to Oyo-Ile) as the place from where dawn [sun-rise] comes — regardless of the fact that Ile-Ife is somewhere in the center of these for corners. Sorry!

Non-deluded people, the majority here have read it; and have seen they it points out two things.

(1) It gave the three definitions of the Bini word “oghene” (in order of popularity of usage) and the 2nd of which is the King of Ife.

(B) It also gave the etymology of the word “oghene”, viz. “oghene” comes from the Yoruba word “Ooni”

You exhibit all attributes of delusions. You are healed today in the name of whatever you believe in,

Amen!

Stop embarrassing yourself and your fans. According to your dictionary evidence Ogene only means God when combined with osa. Ogene means unchangeable and Osa means God, hence Ogene-osa or unchangeable God.

On it's own, Ogene is a name of either the Ooni of Ife or a piece of kola.

TAO12:
Deluded people usually don’t agree with everyone else in the world. It must be that there is conspiracy against them or something. So get a grip. You are plain deluded.

Now to the word and the definitions as given by your own dictionary.

The Benin dictionary did two things:
(A) It gave the three (3) definitions of the Bini word “oghene” (in order of popularity of usage) and the 2nd of which is the King of Ife.

(B) It also gave the etymology of the word “oghene”, viz. oghene comes from the Yoruba word Ooni.

You exhibit all attributes of delusions. You are healed today in the name of whatever you believe in, Amen!

All that can read and comprehend should go and read the dictionary TAO11 presented.

TAO11, according to the dictionary, Ogene only become God when osa is added otherwise it's either Ooni of Ife or a piece of kola. The osa in Ogene-osa is the reference to God, not Ogene on it's own. The dictionary is clear enough.

Your Ooni or Ogene in Benin means a piece of kola, not even a full kola. I am sure this must be very reassuring to you

TAO12:
Oh okay, I get. You’re not sure if you will read a book. No problem. It’s a Bini thing. We continue here.

And who said he didn’t? Olodo.

To educate you (only that you won’t read) in the late-1400s alone, two different Portuguese got these information about the Ogané & Hooguanee.

Of these the two Portuguese, one reached both Benin city as well as the capital city of Ijebu in the late 1400s.

The reports were published in the early 1500s and mid-1500s (Hooguanee and Ogané respectively).

Moreover, others (such as the Spanish, et al. followed in subsequent centuries) to obtain some information about this powerful monarch who overlords Benin, et al. and their kings.



Cheers!

Not matter what you write East will always be East, it can never become West as you which. You dictionary definition of Ogene is on fire, go back and read it and this ensure you fully understand what you read before rushing out with a reply.

KingOKON:
.

It was Awolowo, nothing of whatsoever linked Benin with Ife rather Ondo and most coastal communities down to EKO all answered to the OBA

You are right. The so called Ife kingdom only exists on paper, outside few Bronzes that were discovered there, nothing else.

TAO12:
We’re talking here of your own Benin Dictionary.

Dictionary of Bini Language by H. Melzian, University of London.

Published by Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co Ltd.

You are clinically deluded. Delusions can not get huger than this, lad. Or can it?

This is capital letter CRAP!

Prove your self-consoling assumption with the specific facts that says so.

You can’t simply pull sh*t out of your anus and expect it to be accepted because you’re obese. Haha.

Peace!

No, you are the deluded one. That dictionary has 3 meanings for Ogene.

1. Supreme God when Ogene is joined with Osa as in Ogene-osa.

2. Name of Ooni of Ife

3. A piece of kola

The dictionary clearly make the distinctions as seen above. Ogene in that dictionary only means God when Osa is added as in Ogene-osa, not on it's own, on it's own it either means Ooni or a piece of kola, it doesn't mean God. On it's own Ogene or Ooni means a piece of kola not God

Anyone familiar with the dictionary knows that a word could have different meanings in the dictionary.

Go back and read the dictionary when you are sober, not everyone is as gullible as you and your followers.

You thought, you got away with this. You have been caught red handed again.

According to the Benin dictionary you presented your Ooni means a piece of kola, not even a full one.

TAO12:
Your dictionary of Bini language was not written by Yorubas.

So, your pleading falls flat on its nose. Next.

Everything Benin that was written between 1897 and 1960 had Yoruba input. This was the days of western region, Yoruba was heavily involved in trying to Yorubanised the entire western region.