₦airaland Forum

TAO12:
Egharevba wrote up to the early 1970s. Which eyes do he use to write those? LMAO!

Why didn’t the literate Omonoba Akenzua call him to order on the supposed false history connecting dad-Ife and son-Benin??

Erediauwa-the-fraud, you mean? Erediauwa the non-historian you mean? Erediauwa who didn’t name one single informant you mean? Erediauwa who didn’t cite a single source you mean? Erediauwa who is soaked in low-self eaten you mean? You must drink on Ewuare’s per. Furthermore see the following:


Erediauwa said there is a connection between Ife and Benin. LMAO! He just didn’t like that Ife is the father. He has been debunked by the world’s historical scholarship based on Benin accounts, material artifacts, early writings, amongst others.

Do you agree with debunked Erediauwa? Do you agree with historical scholarship throughout the world?

See one example from a Bini son published in the 21st century.

Oh wait! You mean that your “friends” from your schizophrenic world informed you that Eweka didn’t have a name prior to the name “Eweka” which he “gave himself”??

See a psychiatrist ASAP.

So Eweka evolved from owomica or Monica, which of these did daddy Oranmiyan sent down as the name of his baby prince. The Igbo Iweka is beginning to sound more plausible.

You said Erediawa was debunked based on early Benin accounts written in the years of the locust, years of occupation and intimidation, 1897 to 1963.

TAO12:
(1) Where did he say there was no relationship between father-Ife and son-Benin? Bloody liar? You want to escape from your slave-master. You lie.

I ask you again, how come Omonoba Akenzua did not “call Egharevba to order” so that he disconnect Ife and Benin and supposedly restore Benins history since the British who supposedly didn’t allow that had now gone? LMAO!

(2) That the names are ‘Benin names’ proves my point. That they were made up post 1897. /s

No name at all existed for any Benin king (whether a Yoruba name or a Bini name) throughout the period of Benin writings pre-1897.

And by the way, these Ife-princes who rule as king in Benin kingdom had pure Bini mother’s.

These Ife princes were mounded for centuries inside a Bini culture. Their ways and customs are abound to be heavily influenced by the dominant culture.

Why did many of the Bini patrilineal princes who rule in Itsekir take on Portuguese, Itsekiri, Yoruba names?

Are you aware Egharevba lost his sights and couldn't complete his last works. Anyway any lapse in Benin/Ife relationship as narrated by Egharevba was corrected by not less a person than Oba Erediawa himself. Oba Erediawa was already an educated adult when Egharevba wrote what he wrote.

Oba Erediawa who wasn't under British occupation and duress like his grandfather and father made corrections to the Benin/Ife relationship himself. Oba Erediawa is the product of the source, Egharevba claimed to have collected his stories from. Egharevba didn't write all he was told because of the aforementioned reasons. Erediawa ensured that corrections were made and the correct position of the Palace on Benin/Ife relationship was made known to the world. This position is further reinforced by oba Ewuare 2.

On the issue of Oba of Benin not having Yoruba names, you seriously expect the readers to believe that Oranmiyan remember to send magic pebbles to baby Eweka but forget to send a name.

TAO12:
“Under bRiTiSh ocCuPaTiOn,” hence he lost his reading ability. Buhaha.

Try harder, I am not from Benin kingdom.

Moreover, Egharevba was publishing continuously up until the early 1970s.

How come Omonoba Akenzua did not “call him to order” at the time since the British who was stopping them from saying their true history have now gone.

Oh, I know why tHe bRiTiSH wOuLd cOme BaCk aNd cOLoNizE NigErIa iF AkEnZuA dOeS tHaT. LMAO!

I know with time you will see reasons to stop being a public disgrace to yourself, family and friends.

Egharevba made revisions to his early written works.

The readers can see for themselves from the list of names of Benin Obas which you provided yourself that there is no Yoruba name there. These are deeply traditional Benin names. I ask again, how can the Oba of Benin be Yoruba with Yoruba being the official language of the Palace and none of the Oba had Yoruba names.

We were told Oranmiyan run away from Benin because the people were too quarrelsome. He left behind a pregnancy that became Oba Eweka 1. We were told Oranmiyan sent infant Eweka magical pebbles because Eweka had speech difficulties as a toddler. My question is what happened to the usual Yoruba naming ceremony that accompanies the birth of a child, mind you baby Eweka wasn't just another child, he was supposed to be a prince of the almighty Oranmiyan, why didn't Oranmiyan sent him a Yoruba name?

We were told that when Oranmiyan got to Oyo, he established the kingdom and had the Alaafin of Oyo, so the Alaafin of Oyo and oba of Benin are supposed to be siblings, all the Alaafin of Oyo had Yoruba names but all Obas of Benin have Benin and deep Edo sounding names.

The singular identifier of a Yoruba person anywhere in the world is their name and it is more so for a prince, princess and oba, how come this singular identifier is missing in the case of Benin, how can the Oba of Benin be Yoruba and him and his princes and princesses don't have Yoruba names.

Oya, TAO11 please explain.

TAO12:
Crap from the obese midget, aka samuk.

The Omonoba Akenzua wasn’t an illiterate. He could read and as such would find out whether or not what Chief Egharevba (the Obakhavbaye of Benin kingdom, born of an pure Benin father) published was what he collected from his court.

You tried, but try another pleading.

Any serious person who is interested in knowing who actually was a Benin king would have to check the contemporary writings before 1897. /s

After 1897, the kings name and list written is no more than the names of fairytales & fictional character who have absolutely nothing to do with Benin kingdom. /s

Samuk, show me any of the following names in Benin history prior to the 1900s:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

None actually exist.

Aren’t these mere fairytales and fictional super heroes (made up after 1900s) and actually having nothing whatsoever to do with Benin kingdoms?

Buhaha

Again samuk, show me any of the following names in Benin history prior to the 1900s:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

As per the pre-1800 connection between father-Ife & son-Benin, that has been resoundingly demonstrated at the links below:

https://www.nairaland.com/6697675/power-oba-benin-wield-past/1#105159559

Peace!

Oba Akenzua like his father before him was under occupation and duress. It only took 3 years, 1963 after the British left for Benin to break away from the western region. The Benin/Ife relationship developed K-leg after that. Benin was no longer in agreement with the 1897-1960 Benin/Ife relationship narrative.

If you are still arguing that Benin had any relationship with Ife pre 1800 please show the readers were Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were mentioned in Benin history pre 1800.

There is no need for all the name calling, no need to become emotional, I know all these arguments are overwhelming for you. You should have realised that you have entered one chance the moment you dedicated your life to the fallacy and fairytale called Benin/Ife relationship.

I am enjoying myself pointing out all the lies, illogicality and holes in your narratives.

TAO12:
Having said that, show me any of the following names (prior to the year 1900) in Benin history:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

If you fail to show me one of these names, then I will be forced to conclude (like your dumbass) that these names are no more than fairy tales which have absolutely nothing to do with Benin kingdom.

But if you show me one fo these names, then I will be willing to give you the reference to the words Ife and Oranmiyan in connection with the history of the ‘Edo’ kingdom of Benin prior to the year 1897.

Read the preceding comment.

Also read your own Bini dictionary as shown in the 1st attachment below.

Also read the summary of the conclusions reached by the world’s historical scholarship as attached in the 2nd attachment below.

None of these sources show the name “TAO”. It must be really hard for you not to be paranoid that the whole world is out against you. See a psychiatrist.

Yes, I have it ready since God knows when, but you will have it child when you show me the following names (prior to 1900) in Benin history:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

If you fail to show me one of these names, then I will be forced to conclude (like your dumbass) that these names are no more than fairy tales which have absolutely nothing to do with Benin kingdom.

I don’t really care so much what one ethnic group thinks about another ethnic group.

Instead, I consider what an ethnic group says about itself. And all the early evidence from Benin kingdom (be it archaeological, written, or oral) all point to Ife as the source of its monarchies and its ‘bronze’ casting tradition.

Peace!

Egharevba who compiled Benin early indigenous history did so under Yoruba supervision and his own Yoruba ancestry also played a significant part in what he wrote. I have already told you Oba Eweka 2 precarious position after his father Oba Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar. Benin history written between 1897 to 1960 were mostly hogwash because Benin was under British occupation.

Any serious minded person who is interested in untainted history of Benin have to study Benin history before 1897 and after 1960. Between 1897 and 1960 Benin couldn't have written freely, what they wrote was with the approval of their colonial master the British and their Yoruba local agents.

Before 1897, Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were not mentioned in Benin history. These names entered Benin history in colonial times of 1897 to 1960. After the British left in 1960, the narrative changed.

It is disingenuous to dwell and capitalise on what the Benins wrote under duress to gain political support in their most difficult period of 66 years, 1897 to 1963. Benin written historical records is about 600 years, 66 difficult years is just a fraction of Benin history.

TAO12:
Yes it was.

Moreover, the Ooni, whom the Portuguese documented as “Ogane” (on basis of the Binis “Oghene”) was mentioned in Benin from the 1400s.

See attached screenshot from Hanz Melzian’s “A Concise dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria”.


You mean am?

This has been debunked at the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/6697675/power-oba-benin-wield-past/1#105159559

Moreover, the following names, never appeared in Benin history until after 1900:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo

What now?

(1) They never exited? (2) They have nothing to do with Benin kingdom?

Use your brain despite your oba’s ban on the use of brain.

Peace.

Are you expecting me to respond to a cut and paste without date of publication? I repeat Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan never appeared in Benin history before 1897.

You are now at liberty to present Benin written historical documents before 1897 that mentioned Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan as being part of Benin history.

I am not interested in your modern day publications purporting to interpret old documents.

I am not interested in your interpretations of how Organe was Ooni or how oghoni was Ooni, or how Oghene became Ooni or how oghogho became Ooni. Show me the word Ooni, Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan in Benin historical records before 1897.

You have your work cut out for you. Do more research and come back with Benin history written before 1897 that mentioned Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Your story so far is not different from the Igbo version that says, Oba Eweka was actually Oba Iweka from Nri, Ozolua was an Igbo man with the Ozor title from Nri.

TAO12:
(1) The Oghoni [of Ife] was mentioned by the Benin palace to the Europeans in the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, etc.

(2) The name Eweka (of Ife) was mentioned by the Benin palace to the Europeans in the 1800s., Etc.

Facts dey pepper dem. Haha

There is nowhere the name Ife was mentioned in Benin history before 1897.

There is no way some Yoruba will not be embarrassed by your outing.

Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan didn't appear in Benin history before 1897.

1865 to 1897 names of Benin Obas and prince were documented by Europeans and they were not Yoruba names.

The first time Yoruba name appeared in Benin Palace was during the reign of Oba Eweka 2 in the 1900s.

Unti 1897 when Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar I have been looking for evidence of the existence of Ife in the Benin royal court, I have found none.

Yoruba told us that the Oba of Benin was a Yoruba man from Ife and Yoruba was the official language of the Palace.

Questions:
1. How many Obas of Benin had Yoruba names.

2. How many Benin princes had Yoruba names before 1897.

3. How many Benin princesses had Yoruba names before 1897.

4. How many Benin queens had Yoruba names before 1897.

5. How many Yoruba names of great personalities are found in Benin history since Benin written history records began in the 1400s till 1897.

6. How many Yoruba names of great personalities are found on Benin oral history before 1897.

The truth is Yoruba play very little or no role in Benin history before 1897.

Benin/Ife relationship story was supported by oba Eweka after his father Oba Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar. He supported the Benin/Ife relationship to get support from the Yorubas who the British had stopped their tribal wars, organised and favoured. Oba Eweka 2 faced serious rebellion from some Benin chiefs due to the 17 years, 1897-1914 that Benin was without a active Oba. Oba Akenzua followed on his father's steps, he had a brief romance with the Yorubas until Nigeria independence in 1960. By 1963, the Benin/Ife relationship romance was over. Since the time of Oba Erediawa, the Benin Obas have consistently maintained that they are not Yoruba.

Benin/Ife relationship fairytales only lasted from 1897-1963, a brief period of 66 years of over 600 years of Benin written history.

In the 66 years that the Benin/Ife relationship lasted Yoruba and their supporters looked through Benin arts and historical records for evidences to backdate Benin/Ife connection earlier than 1897 but found none, not deterred, they resulted to outright falsification, they move mentioned locations around, east became west, they reduced distances and 900 miles became 177 miles, they even manipulated travelling time to the extent that a day's journey now became 20 moons (20 months) journey. Even the name/title Organe that was mentioned was change to Ife/Ooni. All these just to backdate Benin/Ife relationship earlier than 1897.

The Yoruba are quick to call on the works of archeologists, anthropologists, linguist, cartographers, mathematicians just to prove that Benin had relationship with Ife earlier than 1897.

Rather than go to this elaborate routes just to deceive unsuspecting and less informed readers, all you guys needs to point to is simple evidences such as the Oba of Benin that had Yoruba names, Benin prince and princess that had Yoruba names. Even if you can't go back too far into history, just show us from 1865 to 1897, these 32 years period is well documented in Benin history with actual names of Obas and Benin princes written down by the Europeans.

KingOKON:
.

You lots are simply pathetic and a shame to ordinary common sense, I need not answer @Abohboy because they all were subjects and under the control of the Oba, even Onitsha bowed to the Oba
So for over 400years before the exile of the Benin king to Calabar, the Benin Kings never deemed it fit to report to their "supposedly" higher king the presence of Europeans to him, yet the Benin kings pay homages to him according to you and your " foreign writers".

If that be the case that your Ogane who you claim was suzerain over the Oba is the most foolish of all kings, so for every successive Oba interactions with Europeans they never bothered taking the Europeans to him your Ogane must be an insignificant nonentity to all the Obas until the fall of the Benin Empire.

If all the tribes and villages from the shore of EKO down to Warri/Forcados where the Nana controlled all submitted and reported to the Oba whose palace was several km from the Atlantic shore yet the Oba gives no regard to the Ogane, that suzerain leader over the Oba must really be an errand boy to the Oba

So you doubt if Europeans authors never wrote Adventures of imaginary
lands of gold, women in abundance and fighting of African savage tribes to gain popularity or to massage their egos, you are truly a dumb wannabe BobRISKY historian.

@Abohboy all of you, even the upper river Niger area all answered and bowed to the Oba, you can ask your village chief and also the Obi of Onitsha who never existed when the Europeans first set foot on this continent

BobRISKY you can continue smoking you weed from ile Ife maybe you can go add some from Ogbomosho village

I have made this argument repeatedly, it's good to know others are not fooled by revisionists and their garbage history.

The first time the Alaafin saw the white man was in 1824. Ife was even much later. This same people are now telling everyone that Benin who was already dealing with the Europeans for more than 400 years before the Alaafin and Ooni saw a white man was under Ife.

Benin already sent an ambassador to Europe 200 years before the Alaafin and Ooni set their eyes on the white man for the first time.

Rather than these guys to concentrate on their fairytales threads, they are always looking for Benin threads to troll. Benin rocks these people's world. I wonder what they would have done with their lives without Benin history.

You always find Yoruba trolls who are obsessed with Benin in any thread that has Benin on it. You will never see them in their fairytales and myths threads such as the one about Sango being a king. That thread is currently 4 pages, but you will never see Yoruba trolls actively participating on it. You guys avoid Yoruba threads like plaques but always trolling Benin threads to dump heap of copy and paste rubbish as historical evidence.

.

UGBE634:
It does not matter who said them, My father cannot tell me I am Yoruba because he is my father and I will take it, If it does not resonate with reality, then it is scam and his knowledge is limited, him been more ancient does not count as anything, Igbo Elites have made claims too which many Igbos have successfully debunked here and the Elites seem to be far too Educated.
The trader the Alaafin met wrote what he told him regardless of his personage. He is a human being and wrote what he told him but you have also in your own word successfully debunked it.
Samuel Johnson you have also in your own word successfully debunked. I should not have taken you serious in the first place. You are a joke

Egharevba she keep quoting is maternally Yoruba. He had Yoruba and Benin ancestry. Oba Erediawa and Benin chiefs were not in agreement with all Egharevba wrote as history of Benin. Egharevba's first edition was greatly influenced by his Yoruba handlers in Ibadan.

Yoruba had already started stealing Benin history for over fifty years before Egharevba wrote his book, same Yoruba people supervised and published the book.

Like you said, the Benin/Ife relationship doesn't resonate with reality. There is zero evidence to support it.

Let's look at the evidence to support Benin Onitsha and Benin Itsekiri relationship.

Benin/Onitsha relationship:

1. The traditional title of obi of Onitsha is Agboghidi. I am sure you have heard about the great Agboghidi from Ugo. Agboghidi is a Benin word.

2. The name of Onitsha shrine is called Udo. Onitsha people said they left Benin during the war between Aruan of Udo and Oba Esigie.

3. Benin and Onitsha share similar traditional institution

Benin/Itsekiri relationship:

1. The traditional title of the Olu of Itsekiri is Ogiamen (ruler of the water, river, sea, ocean etc) Ogiamen is purely Benin word.

2. The Itsekiri monarchy and chieftaincy title is style to mimic Benin traditional institution.

Benin have nothing in common with Ife. The traditions and monarchical structures are different.

I told TAO11 earlier that the more she pushes this Benin/Ife fallacy, the more damage she will continue to cause to it. She is out to deceive unsuspecting readers, she dishes out garbage, junks, fairytales as history.

I am happy most people have the common sense to see through her lies once they are pointed out and people like me will continue to point the lies out.

Her stories have no bearings on reality, people are here for authentic history not fairytales. Most people have gone Beyond fairytales.

How can you argue that oba of Benin is Yoruba from Ife, and yet there are no similarities in culture between the Benin monarchy and Ife, no oba of Benin had Yoruba names, Benin artworks is different from artworks found in Ife.

Yoruba are claiming that they civilised Benin yet they can't point to their own civilisation, how can you give what you don't have.

She can qoute rubbish, copy and paste garbage from now till eternity, a lie will always remain a lie. If Edo people were Yoruba, they will not need anyone to tell them that, they will already know that by themselves. Ijebus are yet to completely accept the Yoruba tag, they are extending it to Benin.

The people of Benin and their Oba have openly declared that they are not Yoruba.

The Yorubas whose kingdom of Oyo and Ife didn't have an eyewitness written historical accounts until 1824 is trying to prove to Benin whose eyewitness historical accounts started in the 1400s that Benin are Yoruba.

In terms of actual eyewitness written historical evidence, Benin is about 400 years older than both Oyo and Ife. These baby kingdoms want to lecture their 400 years seniors.

The Benin people and their Oba said they are not Yoruba, Yoruba people should let it rest. No amount of cut and paste gibberish will change the fact that Benin and Oba of Benin are not Yoruba. Write from here till thy kingdom come, it changes nothing. The people have the rights to determine who they are and on this, the Benin and Oba of Benin have spoken, Benin are not Yoruba people.

The simple and sensible question is, why will Benin deny being Yoruba if really they are. Why will you deny your blood relatives. Why are Benin not denying other Edoid people. Benin is Edo and Edo is Benin. Edo and Benin are not Yoruba.

UGBE634:
The Benin/Ife claim is actually a ruse.


(

My brother, I am glad you now see all the lies. The trouble with all these fairytales and fabrications that started after the fall of Benin in 1897 is that there are just too many holes in them that when you start interrogating them, the story start to fall apart.

The biggest problem for the Yoruba is that Benin actually have documented eyewitness historical accounts. I mean Europeans were in Benin for centuries documenting all aspects of Edo lives until 1897 and not a single mention of Benin/Ife relationship. How can the Europeans documents Benin history for over 400 years, every country and nothing is said about Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan. How can the Oba of Benin be from Ife and no Oba of Benin had Yoruba names. Not even their children have Yoruba names. Not a single prince or princess is recorded in Benin history to have a Yoruba name until 1897.

The truth is Benin was the capital city and headquarters of a great empire/kingdom that attracted talents from all part of the then southern and middle belt Nigeria. The Yorubas, Urhobo, Ijaws, Igbos, etc, all served in different capacities and under the Oba of Benin.

Iyase Okoro Otu which a very popular road in the old G.R.A was named after was from Akure, an Ijaw man was also an Iyase in Benin, the Obaseki are originally from Anioma in Delta state, the current Iyase of Benin, Chief Igbe is of Urhobo ancestry. The Esans were mostly the military generals, chief Ezomo is said to be of Esan ancestry.

Yoruba obsession with Benin have no boundaries, they are literally mesmerised by Benin culture, tradition and history.

Imagine these guys celebrating the new Olu of Warri as if he is Yoruba. The new Olu of Warri repeatedly remainder the audience during his speech that the first Olu of Warri was from Benin and the Olu of Warri is an offshoot of the Benin throne. An Itsekiri delegation was sent to the Oba of Benin on Friday to officially let him know of Saturday's coronation. Throughout the speech the new Olu reference to Yoruba was that his mother was from Yoruba. I didn't hear any references to the Ooni or Ife.

I sometimes feel sorry for these guys for the way they are always trying to attached themselves to everything Benin.

It's not a crime that Oyo and Ife history with the Europeans started proper in 1824, 400 years after Benin have been dealing with the Europeans. The Yoruba now prides themselves as the most sophisticated but they can't take their eyes off Benin history. I don't understand what sort of sophisticated people they are.

The Benin people and their Oba have said they are not Yoruba, but the Yorubas won't rest, is it by force.

UGBE634:
My brother that I can never accept. The Ogisos cannot be sent from Ife. I see a Plan to place all Bini achievement towards the yorubas and my brother, some of them are bare faced lies. The Ogiso in its entirety is internal and has nothing to do with Ife or Yoruba.
If Oranmiyan came to Benin, it is certainly not the present day Bini city, the Palace initially was at Udo before it was moved to Benin during Esigie's reign after Esigie won Araruan. And Usen is a stonethrow from Udo,

These are some of what the Yorubas have claimed so far:

1. The Ogisos were sent from Ife to Benin

2. Yoruba introduced Ada and Eben to Benin.

3. Ife taught Benin Bronze casting. They forgot that Benin also did wood carvings. There is no evidence that the few artworks found in Ife was done there.

5. Yoruba introduced Ada and Eben to the Ogisos.

6. Yoruba was the official language of Benin Palace. Yet no Oba of Benin, princes and princesses had Yoruba names until Eweka 2.

UGBE634:
how would he be king at Ife before Ekaladerhan's forefathers was born and immediately after the banishment of Ekalederhan, the Interregnum Followed and the Ogieamien/Evian, before Oranmiyan was sent for. All these happenings won't be more than fifty years.
sent?who sent him
how would you reconcile this fact because it was only after Ogiso Owodo son was banished, and the Interregnum followed, then the Ogieamien/Evian followed, before Oranmiyan was sent for, how could he have been alive during the Time of Igodo and his Son/grandson later came to be king after twenty Ogisos
I will be tilted to believe this narrative now, he couldn't have come to Benin City of today and yet nowhere in the whole of Benin City is Yoruba spoken not even by a minute clan, Even the palace that was said to be Yoruba speaking gave Ozolua the name Okpame as a prince -entirely intelligible to the Edo man, Ovonranwmen was Idugbowa-also entirely Intelligible to the Edo man, and so with most of the princes if not all. History seem more or less like a ruse to me. And also Igueghae who was said to have taught Bini bronze Casting that is sad to be from Ife is with a Bini name

Just claiming the Oba dynasty as coming from Ife is no longer enough, the Yorubas are also claiming the Ogisos as being sent from Ife, they also claimed that the Yorubas introduced the Ada and Eben to Benin. I did a comprehensive writeup on Benin/Ife relationship, Oduduwa and Ekaladerhan and how all these stories, not history started after 1897.

Ask yourself how many Obas of Benin have Yoruba names, they all have traditional Edo names. Research and hear the sort of deeply Edo traditional names the Benin princes and princesses bear before oba Eweka 2 who started all these Benin/Ife connection.

The Yoruba can only misinform you. Imagine you trying to learn your history of over 1000 years from some of those whose ancestors were recently dumped on the Nigeria soil after the abolition of slavery in the 1800s. Some of these guys ancestors were not even originally from Nigeria.

gregyboy:
I asked for evidence were the oba of benin was praised in yoruba names, prior to 1897

Or prior to oba ewuare 11, to make it easier

The Obas of Benin were busy cutting off heads of disrespectful traditional rulers before 1897. I will like to see the praise names of Oba of Benin by the victims of their axe. TAO11 over to you, let's know their praise names in Yoruba before 1897.

TAO12:
And samuk, the obese midget has known no peace since his own people began to embrace truth rather than his fictional missive.

See the attachments at my second comment below for some testimony from samuk’s Bini brothers.

Take heart samuk.

I understand your pain and emotional outburst. I wouldn't have expected less from you, not after I have exposed the politics behind the Benin/Ife connection fairytale . Take it easy, you didn't really believe that the truth will be hidden forever, do you.

The situation is so bad that you now rely on comments from Benin people on nairaland as evidence to support your fairytale. You are now like a broken record that repeats itself. Meanwhile I am chipping away what's left in your Benin/Ife fallacy.

I have already shown the relationship between Benin and Yoruba in the earlier part of this thread.

The relationship was filled with blood of many Yoruba traditional rulers that were beheaded by successive Obas of Benin before 1897. But after 1897, the story changed, it was as if Benin didn't have history pre 1897. It was as if Benin began a new dynasty after oba Ovonramwen.

Benin automatically became Yoruba relatives. Benin princes even started bearing Yoruba names, meanwhile, no Benin prince had Yoruba name in the previous 900 years, people started writing stories/lies to cement this new found relationship, forgetting that the Europeans have been painstakingly documenting Benin history for over 400 years.

Olu317:
Faace saving for you, right ? LMAO.
Truth catches up like fire, so continue to read about Yoruba ancestors , who are over lord in your kingdom.

As it stands:

1. Yoruba people that believes in fairytales read and defend Benin/Ife relationship version 1. Version 1 is the transformation of the Yoruba myth Oduduwa to a person who became the father of all Yoruba Obas. Before him, Yoruba land had no kings. He birthed the Oba of Benin and the Alaafin of Oyo, I wonder how the other over a thousand Yoruba Obas were given birth to by this same Oduduwa. Only a few like the Awujale of Ijebu traces their ancestral home to Sudan.

2. Benin people that believes in fairytales or just ignorant of their true history read Benin/Ife relationship version 2. Version 2 is the reversed version of version 1. Version 2 talked about how Oduduwa was a Benin prince Ekaladerhan Izoduwa. It went on to explained how the Benin elders sent for their son Ekaladerhan Izoduwa who had assumed the name Oduduwa in Ile-fe (I ran to safety) AKA Ife to return to Benin, Ekaladerhan refused because he was too old and promised to send his son Oranmiyan on one condition. He gave some lice to the chiefs to care for and return in 3 years, one of the chief put the lice in his hair and cared for them for three years . When the chiefs returned back to Ife in three years, the lice were so cared for that Oduduwa was convinced that Omonoya (pampered child) AKA Oranmiyan will be safe in Benin. Oranmiyan stay in Benin only lasted 3 months before he ran away calling the land Ile-Ibinu (the land of the vexed people) but not before impregnating a daughter of a chief to give birth to the next dynasty. Wow.

The lack of evidence to support Benin/Ife relationship before 1897 is why TAO11 have literally moved the location of a fictional Organe from east to west, Iron lady, power Mike . She used quadratic and other advanced mathematics to convert a journey of 20 moons to 17 months as if this will help . She dismissed the 900 mile distance between this Organe and Benin as a figment of the European guy imagination. All just to make Ife fit the description of Organe. Wonderful.

I challenge the Yoruba to start a thread/topic on any of the Yoruba sub tribes and let seen how many pages such a thread/topic will get to without the mention of Benin.

Benin is the foundation Yoruba stories stands on, remove Benin from Yoruba stories, there will be nothing to talk about. This is why Benin is very important to the Yoruba and they are ready to defend the fairytale, Benin/Ife relationship till eternity.

Olu317:
There is no iota of doubt that Igodomigodo share some certain characteristics with Ibos,Urhobo,Isoko, Ika Ibos, ijaws, etc which Yoruba Ileife has never denounce.

Instead, Yoruba Ooni assert, that Bini land is founded by Yoruba Prince-king Oranmiyan.

This is actually different from the Igodomigodo land, which Urhobo, Isoko etc moved away from when the land was in turmoil.

Don't waste your time, Benin didn't have any connection with Ife, Oduduwa or Oranmiyan.

Benin dynasty used the Yoruba to fend off powerfull chiefs such as Agho Obaseki from usurping the throne, then used powerful Yoruba politicians such as Awolowo to consolidate their position.

Oba Akenzua 2 even agreed to be a minister without portfolio in Awolowo western region government. As soon as the mission was completed and the Yoruba was overreaching her boundaries, the eastern Igbo through Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe was used to pull mid-west out of the west.

Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe traces his ancestral lineage to Benin, so using his political influence to help mid-west pull out of the Western region was easy.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897 and banished or depot Oba Ovonramwen to Calabar, Benin was left without an Oba for 17 years, 1897 - 1914. The future of the dynasty became precarious and uncertainty was in the air. The royal household/institution have to pull all strings for survival. This is how the Benin/Ife relationship was born. It was a child of necessity and the Yoruba who were then the poster children of the British were only too happy to be part of such relationship (Benin/Ife relationship).

The Benin royal household/institutions and the Fulani oligarchy are perhaps the greatest politicians and some of the smartest people/institutions in Nigeria. This is also the reason that the two most powerful kingdom in Nigeria was the Benin kingdom and the Fulani Sokoto caliphate.

If the Oba of Benin was really related to Yoruba obas, there wouldn't have been the need for mid-west region to fight their way out of the western region after just 3 years, 1960 - 1963 of being together. The former mid-west region remains the only constitutionally created region/state in Nigeria. Others were created by fiat.

What played out was politics that is far beyond your comprehension.

Concentrate your efforts in trying to prove to your fellow Yoruba people how you guys are related to the Egyptians, Saudi Arabians, Moroccans and other middle eastern people.

The Yoruba weren't the only ones that were fooled by Benin/Ife relationship fairytale, numerous Benin are also victims, but the Europeans who were very familiar with Benin history for over 400 years were not fooled and they let us know that the Benin/Ife connection was a recent story which their European ancestors who visited Benin were not familiar with. This is how people like myself started looking at Benin history pre 1897 to find any connection with Ife and found none.

Benin/Ife relationship was created after Britain destroyed Benin in 1897 and lasted till 1970, it was modified and Oduduwa became Izoduwa, Oduduwa became a Benin prince. Before 1897 Oduduwa was just a myth, not a person that existed.

.

gregyboy:
If anybody sees anything like ekiokpagha treaty in any old document let us know...

I feel personally ekiokpagha treaty is a peace treaty made by arohuan and esigie..


Samuk
Etinosa1234
Areafada2

The word treaty itself is a foreign word to us. I suppose they are referring to some sort of agreement between the Oba and some/a powerful chief or even a prince of the royal household.

It's quite possible that the Oba would have entered into many of such peaceful agreements when he was unable to use force to have his ways.

The history of Edayi n' Iken or Edaiken of Uselu is one of the numerous internal conflicts from internal rivals the past Oba had to find ways to overcome.

Iken was said to be a powerful figure in Uselu who the Oba of Benin wasn't comfortable with and he was sent on a war with eastern Yoruba. It was said that unknown to Iken, the Oba instructed some Benin soldiers who accompanied Iken on the war to ensure Iken doesn't return alive.

After successfully prosecuting the war and on their way back to Benin, Iken was murdered, the rumour of his murder got to his supporters in Uselu. His Uselu people threatened to attacked Benin, the Oba sent a message to them that Iken wasn't dead and he will returned back to them as soon as the war was over.

An agreement was reached in which the Oba sent his first son and heir to Uselu, only to be returned back to Benin whenever Iken returns. On the demise of the Oba and as Iken was yet to return back to Uselu, the Oba heir is escorted back to Benin and the next heir is sent back to Uselu to continue to hold Iken's place.

Back to the Ekiokpagha treaty, I very much doubt that this treaty/agreement have anything to do with Ife. The reason for my doubts is simply the fact that Ife didn't appear in Benin history until the end of the Benin empire in 1897. Ife wasn't either in Benin oral history none can it be found in the history of Benin that were documented by European eyewitnesses.

Everything to do with Ife was created and written after 1897. Ife was inserted into Benin history after 1897 for the mutual political benefits of the Oba of Benin and Yoruba who were looking for rich history such as that of Benin to give some prestige to the Yoruba tribe that largely lack history before 1824.

Benin/Ife relationship was a politically created history after 1897. This is why there are hardly any concrete and convincing evidence to support such relationship pre 1897.

If Benin had any relationship with Ife pre 1897, our oral history would have been littered with it. It would have also been documented by the Europeans.

The reference to Ekiokpagha treaty was just to add flavour to this fairytale.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897, they also wanted to end the present dynasty but failed in this aspect. Some Benin nobles and princes started this fairytale relationship with Ife for the survival of the dynasty. As soon as Nigeria got independence from Britain and midwestern region pulled out of western region, the Benin/Ife narrative changed. Oduduwa that was created from Yoruba myths in 1897 changed to Izoduwa.

Those that are seriously interested in true history of Benin should find European eyewitness accounts written in just 1800s, no need to go far back. Read Button accounts when he interviewed Oba of Benin in 1865, there was a clear distinction between Yoruba and Benin people. Read Hughes 1824 encounter with the Alaafin of Oyo, again, another clear distinction was made between Benin and Yoruba.

How many of the 39 obas of Benin before they were recently increased to 40 had Yoruba names. Why will Oba of Benin be Yoruba and not bear Yoruba names. The biggest identifier of Yoruba people anywhere in the world is their names which they are very proud of. Yoruba only started appearing in the royal household starting from oba Eweka 2. How many of Ovonramwen children had Yoruba names.

Benin share far more commonality in names with the Igbos than with the Yorubas.

1. Ugo (name of ugbe village)
2. Isi
3. Iken
4. Izu
5. Agboghidi (obi of Onitsha traditional title)
6. Udo (name of Onitsha revered shrine)
7. Okoro
8. Eze
Etc.

The relationship Benin had with Yoruba before 1897 is not different from the relationship Benin had with Igbos because Benin is situated between these tribes and Benin expanded in all directions.

If you are one of those that have not be able to read the history of Benin earlier than 1897, it's very easy for you to be fooled that Benin or atleast the Oba of Benin is Yoruba but as soon as you read earlier than 1897 you begin to see the lie.

Olu317:
Stop being ignorant. Anyway, information as this must be a puzzle for you,since your Oba in Biniland, is a descendant of Yoruba man inIleife.

On oduduwa ancestral land, remains specifically spelt as a man from YORUBA land of Ileife. While, there is an heavenly powerful being identified as the same name Oduduwa,whom was sanctioned by Eledumare to go complete the creation of earth.

You see, in Ileife, there is a saying, mèjè lòsi mẹfá lọ̀tún (seven on the right while six on the left),making it thirteen set up/hamlets(13) were clearly the historcal account that usher the dynasty of Odùà as the divine king authorised by Eledumare through oduduwa the heavenly messenger.

This is well known within Yoruba scholars circle. So, there is no iota of doubt that Odua was a Yoruba man, of which I am his descent and not forgetting the fact that millions of people both caucasians as well as Colour people are descended from him.

To buttress more, there is odu Ifa-odu that states, dúdù lẹgbọn pupa láburó(darkskin is the older one while the lightskin is the younger), which is even supported by another odù Ifá that says,afin ló'ríṣa (albino or lightskin is ancestor/god).

This statement is supported in Ileife ,that assert,that some families were the ancestors of lightskin,albino or whiteskins.

Principally, the Ileife of today is not the first or the second or third.....but about the 7th or 8th,which historical account states that after the flood destruction, while Ileife at its peak was established facing Atlantic.

In summary,wherever oduduwa ancestors came from, either as within or as established elsewhere in the ancient time, he remained a Yoruba man. So, Ogiso Iwodo didnt exist during odua time and never related to Ekarladan,who died in Gwatto or Ughotton. In a nutshell, Odua is simply a Yoruba man from Yoruba.

Meanwhile,if you want know the ifaodu corpus, you will have to confess it out here as one who want to learn Yoruba language, the finest and richest cultural language in the world.


Cheers

There is alot here in your write up. Lets break it down little by little.

Are you saying Oduduwa was originally from Ife and your Moroccan and other middle eastern relatives migrated from Ife to middle east or Oduduwa was a Yoruba man who migrated from the middle east. You already told us how DNA linked Yoruba and middle east people together. What I want to know is the direction of migration, did Oduduwa migrated from the middle east or middle east people migrated from Ife. What does Odu Ifa say about this?

A lot of ignorant people like TAO11 will want to learn from you. No insults, I am sure you can do away with the insults whilst you explain your position.

If we are to believe TAO11 that Oduduwa was originally from Ife, then the only way Yoruba people can be related to middle eastern people of Morocco, Egypt and Saudi Arabia will be these people migrating out of Ife. Do you agree or disagree with this simple observation.

TAO12:
You’re trying too desperately to take the heat from away from you.

(1) Historical consensus is that your oba is a Yoruba man.

(2) Historical consensus is that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man.

Focus on historians rather than on Olu or TAO.

Your grievances are well noted though.

Peace!

You have spoken and the readers have seen your position. You must allow Olu317 his opportunity to reply to the question.

The question was for both of you and not just you.

Stop trying to prove that you and only you knows it all.

Olu317, the readers are eagerly waiting for your reply to my question on the middle east origin of Oduduwa.

You guys can't be confused about the origin of your forefather and yet trying to impose him on others.

We are waiting......

TAO12:
FACTS:

(1) Olu disagrees with TAO on the roots of Oduduwa.

(2) Olu agrees with TAO that Benin obas are Yorubas.

(3) TAO always agrees with the historical consensus.

(4) Historical consensus says Oduduwa is a Yoruba.

(5) One of samuk’s brother have now seen the light.

(6) None of these above facts help samuk’s lies.

(6) Samuk is in deep shit.

Peace!

Cc: macof, nisai, gomojam, r4bbit, rhektor, scholes0,

We are getting somewhere.

Olu317, TAO11 has spoken and she believes her position that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife is more historically right than your middle east propaganda.

The floor is yours to tell us why you disagree with TAO11 on the origin of your forefather Oduduwa. Perhaps you care to show us your DNA scientific evidence that linked Yoruba people to the middle east against TAO11 fairytale history.

You guys must first resolve the origin of your grandfathers/forefathers before trying to impose them on others.

Whilst at it, perhaps you could share more light on the odus coptus of Ifa that talked about the origin of Oduduwa.

The readers will also be interested on the story of queen of sheba being buried in Ijebu Ode.

Let me quickly go and get my popcorn......

Olu317:
Congratulation. Mind you, Yoruba claims aborigine and also the flood destruction in world history. How can you explain this world flooding in Edo's Ibinu-Ibini ,Igodomigodo's account ?

Meanwhile I did not make, mende,Esan,Yoruba, Gambia group related to Yoruba to share DNA of Neanderthal without Igodomigodo being mentioned.

After all, geneticists assert this information , who are white(light skin caucasians) researchers with people amongs them having racist hatred tendencies toward brown or darkskin people. So having ancestry linked to Iberomaurasia Morroco, Near East, Europe,who live in present day Africa wasn't conjured by Yorubas .

Therefore your information,learn! While using Bob Marley sons, who are of two different maternal link but same paternal. Google Ziggy Marley's son(s) and Damien Marley son(s),who are Bob Marley's grandchildren.

Kindly get a good exposure to enhance your intellectual prowess and stop self centeredness .Instead embrace fact and the truth in it which makes it true fact

The reality is that Yoruba exposed your ancestors to her own civilzation ,in which it is historically accurate that Oba Bini's Court historians stated that Prince King [b]Oranmiyan was the first man that rode on [b]horse in Igodomigodo ,turned Ibinu land[/b], who later became Àaní(ọ̀/òoní) Iléifẹ.

Below screenhot still support the Yorubas as admixture ethnic group,which was the reason, Yoruba's minute bloodline lives in some of you like the Esan group.

1. Olu317 said Oduduwa, Ijebu and Yoruba people are related to middle east and Oduduwa is from the middle east Egypt/Saudi Arabia/Morocco.

2. TAO11 said Oduduwa was the native of Ife that didn't come from the middle east. She said Sultan Bello that linked Oduduwa and Yoruba people to the middle east lied.

Olu317 and TAO11 are both proud defenders of the Yoruba tribe, but do they really know the origin of their forefather Oduduwa?

Above contradicting statements and claims from these two fellows clearly shows that one or even both of them not to be telling the truth.

Olu317 and TAO11 should first resolve the origin of your supposed forefather Oduduwa before trying to shove it down the throat of the Benin.

Olu317 and TAO11 should leave the Benin out of your confusions, fairytales and myths.

Question for Olu317 and TAO11

Was Oduduwa from the middle east or a native of Ife.

Origin/Beginning of Benin/Ife relationship

1.

Benin/Ife revisited

1. Benin was first visited by the Portuguese in the 1400s.
2. Various Europeans repeatedly visited and documented Benin history from the 1400s to 1897.
3. Benin empire was destroyed by British in 1897 and the Oba deposed to Calabar.
4. Between 1400 to 1897, a period of almost 500 years, nothing, Absolutely nothing was said/mentioned about Ife in Benin history.
5. Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were never mentioned in Benin eyewitness historical accounts.
6. The foremost Yoruba linguist Ajayi Crowder was said to have been born in 1809. He was captured and enslaved.
7. He returned back and started a mission in Nigeria in 1842 and started documenting Yoruba history.
8. He died in 1891.
9. In Ajayi Crowder lifetime, 1809 to 1891, Benin had five Obas. Five Obas of Benin reigned in Ajayi Crowder lifetime.
10. Five Obas of Benin died and five coronations of Obas of Benin were held in Ajayi Crowder lifetime.
11. Ajayi Crowder never mentioned Benin in connection with Ife. There is no eyewitness or hearsay from Ajayi Crowder that Benin had any relationship with Ife during his lifetime.

Evidence put forward in support of Benin/Ife relationship by preachers of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

12. The only evidence shamelessly provided so far by the preachers of Benin/Ife relationship is Organe.
13 Organe was said to have been mentioned in the history of Benin in the 1500s.
14. This Organe direction was given as east of Benin. Ife is west of Benin.
15. This Organe was said to be 900 miles from Benin, Ife is about 177 miles from Benin.
15. The travelling distance from this Organe was said to be 20 months from Benin. Ife is less than a day's journey from Benin.

Questions:

1. Why will Benin have relationship with Ife for over 800 years and not a single mentioned in the eyewitness documented history of either Benin or Yoruba for almost 500 years. Why not a single mention.
2. Why did Ajayi Crowder whose lifetime saw the reigns of the last five Obas of Benin before the end of the empire in 1897 not recorded or mentioned Benin/Ife relationship in his written works. Why didn't him mention this supposed very important relationship in his brief history of Yoruba.
3. Why were there no recorded interactions between Benin and Ife for almost 500 years.

Review of Organe evidence to support Benin/Ife relationship.

1. Even if Organe was Ife, why just one mention of this supposed fictional Ife in Benin history for a period of almost 500 years of documented history.
2. Apart from this one mention, there is absolutely no any other evidence put forward that Benin had anything to do with Ife before 1897.

Conclusion

It is safe to say that there is absolutely zero evidence to support the claims of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

The readers can Judge for themselves.

Truthvalue:
I noticed that last year, the usual suspects attacked me in a rant of abuses after I had announced that I had found some new eye-witness records with bombshell information about Benin empire and it's Lagos province.
These guys want only one thing: bury the truth and keep it buried.

One of the reasons we are hated and feared by these guys is that we are not engaging at the same level as them, instead of joining the shouting match of fairytale dwellers, we are bringing out eye-witness records. We are proving our claims without emotions.

I don't understand why some people are so afraid to hear the truth. Aworis are whatever they think and feel they are today, why all the emotional outbursts. Like I have consistently said, the Edo people are very comfortable with whatever our history says, as far as there are evidences to support such historical narratives.

Just the mention of research is already sending panic down the spine of those that love hearing fairytales as history. I don't see why anyone should panic over what historical records contain.