₦airaland Forum

Stoplying:
Don't mind the troll, lying and trolling are his/her profession.
Just keep posting claims backed by eyewitness accounts alongside the eyewitness accounts.
Providing proof is the maximum which a human being can do. Ignore the rest.

All other sensible Yoruba people have since thrown in the towel but not her and her simpletons, she actually likes disgracing Yoruba people and her history. I will continue to drop the eyewitness accounts and she can continue to offer her opinions and assumptions as history.

UGBE634:
They invited her to come and 'mediate' king lose head, Benin matter na gbe gbe o, what if she was invited to actually come and fight. Oronmiyan must have encountered Benin True True as a returning prince. IBINU was right on point

My brother, the thing tire me. I was actually concerned that she may start a protest infront of the UN (United Nations) building in Abuja screaming blue murder and asking that Benin make reparations and restitution for the several beheaded Yoruba traditional rulers, instead she said her beheaded traditional rulers were simply embattled

TAO11:
One would have expected the supposed vAsSaL states to have be summoned by Benin in order for Benin to arbitrate between them.

It is somehow shocking that a whole suzerain state was caused by its vAsSaL state(s) (either via invitation or via summon) to leave Benin city. Interesting! Tell me more about these omnipotent vAsSaLs.

What gArRison? LMAO!

I could swear you’ve never set your eyes on what the complete account of Ulsheimer looks like. Stop relying on partial internet quotations which always lands you in humiliation, as will be done below again.

I will focus only on the actual quotation and not ‘your’ side commentary which is full assumptions and more assumptions.

(1) This account was collected by Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer who was the surgeon of a trade voyage which visited the coast of West Africa sometimes between late 1603 & early 1604.

(2) His report actually doesn’t say a word about present-day Lagos as a whole. Instead, his report alludes only to one of the islands on present-day Lagos. Nothing is said about the mainland and the other islands.

This fact is clear from the words: “It lies on an island”

(3) Furthermore, his account continues to show that on this said island, there are some towns, one of which is a town whose name he recorded as “Lago”.

This fact is clear from the words: “a … town called Lago … lies on an island and is a frontier town”

In other words, the town “Lago” is a frontier town, i.e. a town which lies in-between two other towns — that is, it lies exactly on the border of two other towns.

This same conclusion (that there is more than one town on this particular island) can also be reached from the words: “Many people come to … town Lago, by water and by land”

Given the fact that some people come to this town Lago by land [and this town is on an island], the logical implication then become obvious.

That is, those who come to the town Lago by land are people who reside on that same island, but in a different town of that island.

In conclusion, according to Ulsheimer’s account, Lago is NOT the only town on that island. There were other towns on that very island.

(4) Ulsheimer’s account notes that this specific town Lago (NOT any other town on that very island, nor any other town on any of the other islands, nor any town on the mainland) belongs to Benin.

Did Benin come to acquire their portion of that island by virtue of aboriginal right, or by forceful take over, or by conferment from the native aboriginal owners?

Considering each of these above means of ownership carefully and in turns:

(A) Whether or not Benins’ ownership of their portion of that island resulted from some aboriginal right is silent from Ulsheimer’s account. However, both Lagos and Benin traditions admit that this island (and beyond) is the aboriginal property of the Aworis.

(B) Did Benin’s ownership of its portion of that island result from a forceful take-over?

Firstly, it must stressed that as at the time of his visit to the coast of West Africa sometimes between late 1603 & early 1604; Ulsheimer already found that the Benins were already settled on the island, specifically in their portion of the island — that is, in town Lago.

In other words, he could not have possibly witnessed how their predecessors originally came from Benin to settle on that island in the mid/late-1500s. In fact, as at the time of his visit, the Benins had long built their portion of that island into a walled town which has a tested, year in, year out internal political/religious system.

Ulsheimer’s account is therefore silent on how the predecessors of the 1603-4 Benins of Lago came to originally settle on that island in the first place in the mid/late-1500s — a forceful takeover or a peaceful infiltration?

Furthermore, in the year 1603-4, Ulsheimer met the then Benins of Lago living as a military unit within their portion of that island — i.e. within the confines of the walls of town Lagos.

Does this not establish that their predecessors (who came originally from Benin to settle on this island in the mid/late-1500s) actually settled-in via a forceful takeover in the 1500s??

The 1500s events can not be established for certain on the basis of the events of 1603-4. In fact, what seems plausible is that their condition (as a military unit) as observed by Ulsheimer in the year 1603-4 was in response to a relatively new situation which demanded nothing but a military intervention.

In other words, the plausible scenario is that their predecessors (who came originally from Benin in the 1500s) actually settled-in peacefully into the island; but that they (their successors) only began to later live as a military unit because they were attempting to respond militarily to a relatively fresh situation that called for nothing but a military response.

Is there any corroboration for this foregoing scenario in Ulsheimer’s account?? And the answer is a big, fat YES!

On page 24 of the same material, Ulsheimer alludes to another Benin-settled town (apart from Lago). The location of this second town is unspecified except to the extent that it appears to also lie somewhere near the Atlantic coast, but apparently closer to the Lagos region than to the Benin region.

This account continues to show that the subjects there (unlike those at town Lago) happened to have “rebelled” against their oba. As a result, the subjects at town Lago were tasked with the duty of returning them back to status quo.

This account continues to show that those subjects at the town Lago (acting on behalf of their oba) asked Ulsheimer’s team for help (when his trading team got to the Lagos area) since they by themselves could not easily conquer” the said Benin-settled rebel town — because like “Lago” this town too is “walled”; and the town Lago residents have no canon.

In conclusion:
While it is impracticable to definitively establish the condition under which their predecessors originally came to settle in the island in the 1500s on the basis of the successors’ living formation in the year 1603-4; the account Ulsheimer does point to the fact that the military formation in which these successor lived in the year 1603-4 was in response to a relatively fresh situation which called for nothing but such response.

(C) In the light of the foregoing analysis what becomes clear is the fact that Ulsheimer’s account is silent about the condition under which the predecessors of the 1603-4 Lago Binis came originally to settle in into that island. He also couldn’t have been a witness to such event from the 1500s.

It is also clear from his account that the 1603-4 Lago Binis were living in a military formation because they
have been attempting to respond militarily to a fresh situation that called for nothing but such.

This foregoing information from Ulsheimer’s account does corroborate the Lagos traditions (rather than the Benin traditions which came later) quoted below::

“Some little time after the Olofin's death there began the peaceful penetration into Lagos of settlers from Benin. The Binis probably realised that they would not be able to occupy Lagos by force, as they had already been so decisively beaten in their attacks on Iddo, and it is thought that they were also prevented from further aggression by superstitious fear, the dying wife of the Olofin having pronounced a terrible curse on any further invaders from Benin. Whatever may have been the reason, the Binis arrived with no great show of force, and permission was asked of the Lagos people for them to land. This permission was granted, probably with no very good grace, although at that time Lagos island was very sparsely inhabited and there must have been room for many more settlers.” ~ Sir A. C. Burns, “History of Nigeria,” 1929, p.43.

In summary, the Benin ownership relates only to one portion of the island — that is, a town called Lago to the exclusion of other towns on the island & beyond.

The Benin ownership of town Lago is the results of a granted permission to land which was sought by the Binis from the Yoruba owners of the island.

Their living condition (within the walls of their portion of the island) — in the year 1603-4 — as a military unit did not begin with their predecessors, but was in response to a relatively new situation that called for military intervention.

Peace!
Cc: rhektor, lifeisgood12, nisiw365, LegendHero, macof.

After accusing me of inserting my opinions and assumptions. You now left the historical narrative that was mostly qouted verbatim and went on a long epistle of your own opinions and assumptions, something you criticised me of doing.

The historical narratives I am presenting are for those that can make use of their thinking capabilities, not for you. I would have been very surprised if you have jumped this one without commenting.

According to you:

1. Benin was peacefully invited to Lagos, infact Benin begged for a small piece of land, waving white flags whilst begging. But you forget that they went there with a barracks load of soldiers.

2. The Alaafin also peacefully invited Benin to come and put down the rebels that was threatening his domain.

3. The Ikere people peacefully summoned Benin to mediate in a dispute. You also forget Benin went there with such military force that the demography of the areas changed forever. Traditional rulers lost their heads.

You would have liked everyone to believe that Benin never crossed Ore town if not for the overwhelming evidences.

UGBE634:
Not only is she dead brain, She is also so myopic and shallow in thought and is certainly deprived of understanding. That's why I brought out Those letters bit by bit for her to see what is written clearly there
First she wrote no part of eastern yorubaland was under the Bini Empire. then you brought out that piece I know she must have been shocked and was trying to downplay Bini's influence there.
She was also forgot that those areas were wrestled from the Ewi and was given to the Ogoga who his masters won the battle. At best her delusion would only sting her and those around her not learned

Her inferiority complex and low self esteem is her undoing, this is why she continue to lie even in the face of overwhelming eyewitness evidence.

There is nothing to be ashamed about if her people were ones colonised/influenced by Benin. Benin was the America of it's time in Nigeria. Even great Britain and America themselves were ones colonised but you will not see their people denying it.

She also have comprehension problems and I like the way you serialised the historical narrative to her because the long write up may have overwhelmed her.

Ikere wasn't just a vassal to Benin, Benin actually had a military garrison there just the way Benin had military presence in all her areas of interest including Lagos.

Benin military garrison in Lagos, 1603 Dutchman eyewitness accounts.


The relevant passage in Andreas Ulsheimer's account from 1603, is the following:

"Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago [Lagos], which also belongs to the King of Benin. It lies on an island and is a frontier town, surrounded by a strong fence. In it live none but soldiers and four military commanders, who behave in a very stately manner. Every day they come together in the king's house and make a sacrifice every morning. After the sacrifice, they hold court in the open air, in front of the king's house. Whoever has anything to complain about makes his complaint. They all fall on their knees when they present their case, and when one man is given a verdict in his favour, he thanks the authorities and the king. Also, two envoys always stand with the judge and listen to what is done. Every day these two send news off to the king, informing him of what the judges have done that day. They do this throughout the whole year. This is practiced not only in Lago, but also in other towns of the king, as well as in Benin itself. Many people come to the aforesaid town Lago, by water and by land, with their wares, which consist of beautiful cotton cloths woven in all kinds of colours and patterns." - Andreas Ulsheimer's voyage of 1603-4, translation by Adam Jones in German Sources for West African History, 1599-1669 (1983), pp. 40-41

The "forty miles" would be either German miles or perhaps Dutch miles (Ulsheimer was a German, but he was working for the Dutch), not English miles.

At that time, the king of Benin, presumably one of the "warrior-kings" of Benin tradition - most likely either Orhogbua or Ehengbuda - was campaigning directly in the Lagos area (something which Egharevba, who had no idea about Ulsheimer's account, also claimed independently on the basis of tradition in his works on Benin history centuries later) and the "king's house" in "Lago" that Ulsheimer refers to is a reference to his residence there while on campaign. Ulsheimer gives a very brief description of the Benin palace, in Benin City, separately from this, in another part of his account (given on p. 37 of the book by Adam Jones cited above), and so the "king's house" that he mentions in that passage is not a reference to the royal palace, but to a certain royal building in "Lago".

UGBE634:
"The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado. Ado would then be afraid of Ikere. The Benin soldiers came and sent words to the Ewi Aroloye… He refused to surrender." This can only be the action of a big bro, Benin sent word to you, you did not heed, you are heading for destruction. Real men send words and engage in pure face-off not like Ogendegbe the bandits whose claim to greatness is shrouded in mystery and cowardice. An inferior stool, a vassal (Ikere)sent words to Benin to help settle and mediate over the issues between her and her neighbor. Ikere was a vassal to Benin, She sought the protection of Benin when she was in turmoil as a Vassal would, your attempt to dissuade Benin influence here would only show your level of stark ignorance in the workings of an Empire, You are Ignorant and you should go and read, you are the Ignorant one here Obviously!.
OLOKUN175, EKABA691,OGUN622-Who the Bleep are those

The Edos were invited by Ogoga, the third time the Edos were so invited to settle the quarrel between Ado and Ikere.

The rampaging Benin armies sacked Ogotun, Aramoko, some subordinate communities of Ijero, Ado communities such as Are, Afao, Ugbo (now Ilu) Omoba and Agbado and settled a large percentage of the haul of captives therefrom in Ikere, their garrison post.

TAO11:
(1) Did some Eastern-Yoruba towns embattle Benin kingdom at some point in the course of history?? YES!

Hence, this means that Benin kingdom once ”ruled” some Eastern Yoruba towns?? Absolute crap!


(2) Did Ogedengbe (from Ilesha) or Aje (from Ibadan) ravage & sack different regions of Benin kingdom at some point in the course of history?? YES!

Hence, this means that Ogedengbe (of Ilesha) or Aje (of Ibadan) once “ruled” Benin kingdom [or parts of it] as its emperor??

I would let my Benin rags answer this one.
.
.
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You Binis are a laughing stock.

Cc: lifeisgood12, rhektor

Embattled? Are you serious? You call such carnage, destruction and total subjugation of your people embattled?

So what would you say about Benin/Ijebu relationship as recorded in Yoruba history book by Samuel Johnson.

The historian Samuel Johnson made the following claim in his book:

"The origin of the Ijebus has been variously given ; one account makes them spring from the victims offered in sacrifice by the King of Benin to the god of the ocean, hence the term Ijebu from Ije-ibu, i.e., the food of the deep.

The Fulani are apprentices and learners compared to the total Benin domination and subjugation of the pre colonial Nigeria space for more than 500 years. The Fulani are yet to scratch the surface of Benin achievements in her over 500 years lordship of pre colonial Nigeria.

I have consistently say it that Benin have no mate in Nigeria when it comes to history. Ancient Benin history is on the same level as ancient Greek, Rome and Egypt.

Instead of TAO11 to hide her people and their history, she continue to drag them out for humiliation by the Benin who are armed to the teeth with pre colonial historical records. Imagine bragging about Ogedegbe who was on the same level of criminality as Lawrence Anini.

More on Benin/Igala relationship told by the Igalas themselves. There is also a nollywood movie by Mercy Johnson.

You can find the history and her statue on the internet.

The Legend of Igala Kingdom- Princess In
Princess Inikpi of Kogi

According to historical records, It all started with a war between Benin & the Igala people which caused the land to be unsafe, farmlands were taken over by the enemies and stream been poisoned so that anyone that drank from them would die. Nowhere was safe at all.

The Igalas feared imminent death from starvation and lack of water. When the Atta (King) consulted the oracle, it proclaimed that a reversal of their misfortune and victory in the war could only come when the princess, the only daughter of the king is buried alive. — Princess Inikpi.

Surely, the king was distraught heartbroken and shaded tears. For days, he didn’t eat or drink and he wished for an alternative solution. Of cos, no father would just agree for any of his children to be buried alive not to talk about the only child of the Atta (King).

The princess noticed the worries of her father and asked to know the reason for his sadness. Instead of opening up, he held off telling her the reason for seven days, but on the eighth, he relented and told her the words of the Oracle.

The Princess loved his father and her people as much as they loved her, could not bear the thought of holding off on the solution that would save Igala land. Princess Inikpi did not object, she did not fight. Therefore, she agreed to be sacrificed and set off voluntarily to the bank of River Niger at Idah (some say market square), where she was buried along with 9 slaves who would help her in the journey to the afterlife.

It was a sad resolution but the Igala people hailed her for her heroism. after the sacrifice, the story went on that as the Bini armies advanced to swoop, they saw the whole town in FLAMES and retreated feeling that there was no need taking the war to a place already on fire; but it was the blood of Inikpi that deceived them. However, it was the influence of the sacrifice.

Observance of the role the Princess played in averting disaster in Igala land still represents an important historical event in the life of the igala people. Today, so many people in Idah bear the name Inikpi in honour of the princess.

The sacrifice was a costly one, very expensive indeed, it, however, made peace reign again in Igala land.

Till today, the late Princess Inikpi who was sacrificed so that the Igalas might live remains the unifying factor in Igala land.

For this, the Igala people are forever deeply grateful to Princess Inikpi for her sacrifice and act of heroism. A statue of the princess stands at “Ega” in Idah, which is considered the Igala traditional headquarters. Several plays have also been produced to celebrate her story

"Overview of 19th Century Wars and Turbulence on Ado-Ekiti:

No part of Ekiti was spared the agony of imperialist invasions…The rampaging Benin armies sacked Ogotun, Aramoko, some subordinate communities of Ijero, Ado communities such as Are, Afao, Ugbo (now Ilu) Omoba and Agbado and settled a large percentage of the haul of captives therefrom in Ikere, their garrison post.


Benin armies constantly waged wars of external aggressions on Ekitiland and other communities in different parts of old Ondo State in their quest for territorial expansion and control, among others. A good reference point is the Ado-Ikere relations that resulted to Benin pillage and attacks on Ado-Ekiti on several occasion. Olomola (1984:2-3) noted that Benin armies invaded parts of Ado kingdom a few times between 1500 and 1815.. Olomola further asserted that the Ewi actually devise a strategy of evacuating his capital city so that the Benin armies would not disturb the Ewi and the rest of his people in their new site.
Odo which was, before the Benin invasion a town of considerable size, broke up as the people sought the safety of rocky and forest recesses and Uyin and Igede lost part of their population in their fight against Benin in 1815.

The development of the Ado Kingdom was seriously affected by external invasion. These resulted in series of demographic upheavals with settlements constantly moved from one site to another. The most serious of these external invasions were by the "Edo" of Benin. They attacked and destroyed many settlements…in the Ado Kingdom… The Edos were invited by Ogoga, the third time the Edos were so invited to settle the quarrel between Ado and Ikere. The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado. Ado would then be afraid of Ikere. The Benin soldiers came and sent words to the Ewi Aroloye… He refused to surrender. He did not in any way show that he was not ready for fight. Every town or village under him except Ijan were prepared to fight…


Every town or village under him (Ewi) except Ijan were prepared to fight… The Benin soldiers stormed Igbara-Odo and Ilawe and took them. At this time, Ado town had been vacated. Aroloye took the people to a place called Oke Oko Axis between Ifaki and Iworoko. Most of the gods Ado worshipped on that side: Olua at Eyio, Obanifon at Esure and Are, Ogbese and Orisala at Iworoko. The soldiers pitched their camps near Uyin (Iyin)…Ogbesi Okun, the then Oluyin …was conquered and killed. They proceeded to Igede, Awo and Esure and took them. The inhabitants of Igede then uder Okiribiti were driven in a north-easternly direction to a place called Oke Asha…Edo troops then marched to Iworoko…The soldiers entered Are…The same fate befell Afao. They were all taken to Ikere. The soldiers moved to Igbemo …entered Igbo-Omoba (now Ilu-Omoba)…The soldiers left Aisegba for Agbado and without delay took it and evacuated the people. Agbado was the last place under the Ewi. With the conquest, of Agbado, the soldiers seemed to have finished their job…’

Ewi Idagunmodo (1696-1710), Ewi Okinbaloye Aritawekun (1710-1722), Ewi Amono Ola (1722-1762), Ewi Afunbiowo (1762-1781), Ewi Akulojuorun (1781-1808), Ewi Aroloye (1808-1836) who reigned at Ado but were attacked successively by Benin hordes…‘During the reign of Ewi Aroloye, Ado-Ewi’s kingdom witnessed massive dislocation across the terrain as town dwellers and villagers ran for safety in different directions. Many of the captives from Iworoko, Are, Afao, Ugboomoba (now Ilumoba) and Agbado were taken to Ukere by Benin invaders’.

gregyboy:
Nice then,


I beginning to signout from culture thread, particularly defending bini i think we have giving an endless blow to haters..

I will be whirling on romance section now leme b advising some confused fellas ....

Dont let her make you talk she enjoys it bro, just drop screenshot and links and walk out


But thanks you doing a great job.... But dont always give her d attention she seeks

I know her by now. I only occasionally reply her because of those that are not very well informed that believe her storytelling.

She put a spin on every historical narrative to favour her ethnic bias. I sometimes feel sorry for some of her audiences that genuinely seek the correct historical accounts devoid of lies and spins. She continue to misinform these people. At the end of the day, her misrepresentations will only end here on nairaland because most of what we debate here are already well established in history books, she can continue to offer her bias opinions as history to her Yoruba people.

Imagine a simple historical narrative that quoted the Alaafin as saying he was facing insurrection from those he called rebels and needed nothing other than what will put an end to the rebels and that he has sent to his friend the Oba of Benin for troops to assist him. Below is the exact quote with references.

She still managed to spin this simple qoute by saying the Alaafin was preparing for war. The Alaafin wasn't preparing for war, the rebellion was already going on and the Alaafin didn't have the army to put an end to it, that is why he sent to the Oba of Benin to send him troops to help him.

Because the Alaafin was already paying tributes to Benin as already shown, the Alaafin sent an SOS to Benin for help. The Alaafin was not the only one Benin help in Yoruba land during wars, Lagos and other Benin subjects in Eastern Yoruba have in different times call on Benin for military assistance and all these are well established in history.

"The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

"In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo


She goes on to say the historical narrative that the Alaafin paid tributes to Benin is not in Benin oral history. She wants to teach a Benin person Benin oral history.

Let me simplify Benin pre colonial oral history to her. In Benin oral history, the Oba was only second to God almighty in heaven. The Oba of Benin was believed to be God's representative on earth, everyone and everything including all gods, religions in the land, human, animals both on land and sea, the extent of the sea and land that are accessible to the Benin belongs to the Oba of Benin irrespective of location and distance from Benin. So the Alaafin would have been seen as just one of the numerous rulers under Benin.

If Benin wanted to conquer the Alaafin and his people at anytime, it would have been a cakewalk for Benin army, same army that the Alaafin rely on to keep his kingdom from being destroyed by his rebellious neighbours.

Her arguments of weather the Alaafin paid tributes to Benin is neither here or there, the undisputed king in pre colonial Nigeria was the Oba of Benin.


Cheers.

gregyboy:
Lol.... Dont drag words with her drop screenshot evidence with referencing so people can help themselves confirm the authencity of your words, when you do that there willl be no need to battle words with her rather with the open silent audience who would be reading quietly


Please always refrence and drop links and screenshot to every of your point you make because you're actually convincing the audience not Tao, convincing tao is futile
you giving mere statement with no referencing makes the audience think you made up your writeup from thin air

You made very good point on the name of kiriji you should follow it up with a screenshot or a refrence or a link for the audience to make easy research ...

Good luck bro remember we aren't going to be doing this forever so whatever we do, whatever comment we leave should be backed up with authencity to make things easier for future researchers and readers and don't be afraid to ask her for evidence bro....


Just giving an advice bro....


I guess we have achieved the greatest research on Nairaland bursting the ife and benin myth...

All the references are in my first write up before the one you commented on.

I only intervened because of how you tried to downplay the significance of Benin supplied guns and ammunitions in the Kiriji war. If Ijebu supplied guys at all, they were insignificant as I have already shown in my earlier intervention.

The name Kiriji itself was named after the reverberating sounds, Ki-ri-ji-i of Benin supplied guns. Or should I say the war itself got it's name Kiriji from the sound of Benin guns.

The report by the British governor, R. E. Dennett that the Alaafin he visited told him of his predecessors paying tributes to Benin is firmly established in the pre colonial history of Nigeria and your fable attempts to deny it will only end here on nairaland. The history has already been written in history books.

Again the Alaafin that told Hugh Clapperton in 1824 that he has sent for his friend the Oba of Benin for troops to assist him didn't say the Alaafin paid for such services/help from the Oba of Benin. The issue of payment was purely your own makeup.

All you have written, are attempts to downplay, misrepresent what actually happened and what was actually recorded to have been said.

You were not there when the British governor visited the Alaafin to know what was discussed. Why would the British governor lied about what the Alaafin told him? The British were not Benin best friends Judging from what they wrote about Benin and the subsequent destruction of the city and stealing of her artefacts.

I quoted verbatim, I didn't add my opinions and meanings into the historical narratives I presented, whilst your reply is laced with conjectures, ifs, maybe this, maybe that, you even implied that the British governor R. E. Dennett lied in his report.

Must everyone that doesn't agree with your ethnic biases be liars.

The Benins are liars, British governor R. E. Dennett was a liar. Take it easy.

Kiriji war.....

The name Kiriji itself was gotten from the frightening sounds of Benin supplied ammunitions.

"Next the Ogbagis obtained help from Rabbah and Ilorin. Sinabu King Masaba's son and Hinakonu the Fulani Balogun of Ilorin came against him ; thrice was Ayorinde routed, and many of his fighting men speared, but he rallied again and maintained his ground. Ogbagi was at length taken. Ayorinde became lord of the Akokos and Ido Ani. He opened a caravan way to Owo through which he obtained ammunition from Benin." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas

"The confederates now aimed at wresting from the Ibadans all their subject towns including Oyo towns under their protection from Ikirun to Iwo, and limit the Ibadan territories to the river Oba, that is the natural limits of their farms in that direction. It soon became evident that the Ifes had joined them, because their only safe route to Benin for ammunition via Oke Igbo became unsafe from kidnappers ; but the people of Modakeke being Oyos and not Ifes refused to join the coalition knowing that the destruction of Ibadan would be their own ruin, as the Ifes were ever hostile to them, but remained quiet for fear of the Ibadans." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas

"The allies had also the great advantage over the Ibadans, in that they had free access to Benin for ammunition whilst nearly all the roads were closed to the Ibadans. Long flintlock guns with large muzzles were imported from Benin ; these, when fully loaded and fired, gave a report which reverberating from hill to hill all around sounded like Ki-ri-ji-i, from which this war was named the Kiriji Campaign." - Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas

Benin was so powerful that it didn't just supply guns and ammunitions to various Yoruba tribes, it also supplied mercenaries to fight in their wars, as you can see below.

"The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

"In the evening we had a visit from the king (Alaafin of Oyo), to thank me for the presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcolme; said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the war."

- Hugh Clapperton, Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa, from the Bight of Benin to Soccatoo

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAA

VEHINTOLAR:
Perhaps, if you read slowly without rushing to respond,you'll discover that there is nowhere in my writeup where I stated that Oranmiyan came from the middle east. Oranmiyan was a Prince of Ile Ife; he was born there ! So,I couldn't have told you that he came from far east ! Stop confusing yourself,Oduduwa is not the same as Oranmiyan. The former is the father of the later,okay ?

What I told you was that Oduduwa actually told the people he met at Ile Ife that he came from a very far place -the middle east. And would he have been a "Yoruba" when even the people met at Ile Ife did not call themselves "Yoruba". Yoruba is not the original name of the people of present day Yoruba land ! Task your brain a little and research that. You need to understand that Oduduwa arrived at Ile Ife with large entourage of people who latter started intermarrying with the aborigines.

Oranmiyan,just like Oduduwa his father met people at Ile Ife when he arrived there,also met the Bini when he arrived at the place he later named "Ile Ibinu" that you call Benin today. What you had as ruler before his arrival was "Ogiso" dynasty. It was Oranmiyan that introduced Obaship system to your people as being practised in Ile Ife where he came from. Or why was Oranmiyan Omoluabi Odede,a Yoruba prince from Ife the first Oba of Benin ? Of course,Oba of Benin is a Yoruba descendant because Oranmiyan,who founded the Oba stool, was a prince from Ile Ife and the first Oba of Benin kingdom !

Oduduwa,many centuries ago,claimed that he came from the far east and today the DNA of his descendants ( Yoruba people) is found to be very similar to those of the ancient Pharaohs of Egypt whose corpses were exhumed from the mummies for scientific evaluation to determine the original inhabitants of the ancient Egypt. What dies that tell you about the progenitor of the Yoruba race ? Yoruba are the beautiful Nubians of the great black civilisation; the ancient Egyptians of old ! It is an established fact that the ancient inhabitants of that area were black people and that's why those Pharaohs were black people but not white or Arab. The present inhabitants of the middle east are Arabs,Persians and Europeans. They migrated there and dispersed the original owners through wars.

If you want,I will forward some brain bursting amazing facts about the history of Yoruba people to you. It is bigger and mightier than what you Bini can attempt to rubbish with your senseless fabrications and lies !

We,Yoruba are the Omo Alade ! You may go figure out what that means ! Are you aware that the tomb of one of the wives of king Solomon - Queen Sheba is in Yoruba land ? Trust me,we are not who you think we are !

Okay, I get it now, Oduduwa who is the grandfather of the Oba of Benin was from the middle east and the Oba of Benin is related to the Egyptian pharaohs, king Solomon and Queen of Sheba. Cheers.

VEHINTOLAR:
Try harder, fact remains what it is and that' it is a fact ! Shocking but undeniable facts await you at Ile Ife. I can only encourage you to visit,learn and be set free from all these obvious lies and self deceits that won't profit you guys in any way. After all, your present Oba visited just like his predecessors. Have heard of a place,a shrine actually,that's called "Ori Oba Ado" before ? It's in Ile Ife. Please,look for somebody that understands Yoruba to tell you what it means.

I do not have any issue with you if as a Bini man,you refuse to recognise the ruler of Gelegelegbene Ijaw community as a king. That is left for the Ijaws here to deal with. However, this is what the Ijaws of that community said as culled from the Vanguard Newspaper of 30th October, 2018 captioned - EDO : IJAW WON'T CEDE LAND,IDENTITY TO BINI. You may google it.

“They (Bini people) met Ijaw people at Gelegelegbene and begged for help to be ferried to the other side and out of magnanimity, we ferried them to where they are now. This is recorded in all the history books and it was affirmed by renowned Benin writers.

“However, there is a tendency that Benin migrants who escaped from Ile-Ife may have married Ijaw women from Gelegelegbene community and other Ijaw communities to have raised Benin kingdom as there is no historical record showing that the Yoruba fleeing migrants arrived in Gelegelegbene with a wife.

“What is expected, therefore, is that the Obaseki-led Edo State government should have direct dealings with Gelegelegbene, other Ijaw host communities and the various Ijaw monarchs where this seaport project is located.”

The Ijaw said that you Bini were fleeing migrants from Ile Ife ! This specifically substantiate the fact that some groups of Yoruba,at a time in history, arrived at a location known today as Benin city. These people came with Oranmiyan Omoluabi Odede,a prince from Ile Ife in present day Osun state. The Ijaws have this record well documented in their archives. There were turbulence,chaos and famine at the time Oranmiyan arrived benin,hence the name Ile Ibinu which is now corrupted as Ibini or Benin. It may interest you know that we have - Ile Ife,Ile Ijesha,Ile Oyo,etc in Yoruba land.

Oduduwa could not have been a Bini man if the the recent archeological discovery and DNA result show that the DNA of Yoruba people of Nigeria and that of Benin republic matches with that of ancient Pharaohs of Egypt ! The only people with such DNA in west Africa. In fact,majority of present days Egyptians do not have the ancient Pharaohs DNA !

I knew you you would be quick to talk about the nonsensical stuff that Oduduwa was a prince or whatever from Benin and that was why I informed you about semitic alphabets and written words on Oranmiyan staff ( it is in Ile Ife,you can visit to see it) and those found in Osun Osogbo groove. They are semitic alphabets of ancients people of the middle East - the present geographical areas that cover Egypt, Palestine, Israel,etc.

Tell me,in your history, who is the father of Oduduwa ? Before you come up with another fabrication,remember that Oduduwa knew his father's name as he informed the people of Ile Ife. The name of his father Lamurudu (Nimroid),a middle eastern magician who hailed from around present day Iraq.

Also remember that Oduduwa told the people of Ife that he came from a very far place. What is the distance of Benin from Ile Ife ? Are you aware of the fact that the mosque in Yoruba land was built 1655 in a town called Iwo ,Osun state ? This is to tell you that people from the far lands - north Africa and middle east had been visiting Yoruba land since time immemorial. This is why it is also an anomaly for anybody to think that the descendants of Usman Dan fodio introduced Islam to Yoruba people. It is wrong just as it is wrong to think that Oduduwa was a Bini man !

It is not a coincidence that Researchers are discovering in recent times lots of similarities between Yoruba language and semitic language of the ancient middle east. You guys can continue to swim in self deceit,the fact remains that Oduduwa was NEVER a Bini prince or whatever and he told the people he met at Ile Ife that he came from a the far east and today,archaeological evidences,found only in Yoruba land,are supporting thus claim,I think you Bini should look elsewhere for your lost king or whatever you call him.

The only reason why Benin kingdom was not attacked by the Indefatigable Yoruba army of that era was because of Oranmiyan connection as the founder of that kingdom. Otherwise,you guys would have paid isakoke to the Alaafin ! It is fact and you may check the spread of the old Oyo empire for you to clear any doubt about this.

Go back and think through all that you have written? You said Oranmiyan told the people he met at Ife that he came from far east. Which means he wasn't a Yoruba man but according to you from middle east. So if we follow your logic and assuming you are right, how did the Oba of Benin become a Yoruba descendant if Oranmiyan his supposed father is from Egypt/Saudi Arabia.

You guys just write without thinking through your write ups.

Explain to us how the son of Oranmiyan who you told us is an Egyptian/Saudi Arabian became a Yoruba descendant.

VEHINTOLAR:
Oba is Edo word ? You guys won't stop fooling yourselves,walahi ! Was there anything like the word "Oba" in your tongues before Oranmiyan 's dynasty was established by OranmiyanOmoluabi Odede,a Yoruba prince from Ile Ife ? You guys will just be saying nonsense ! Do you even know the meaning of Oba - Oba to ba l'ori ohun gbogbo,Alase ikeji Orisa ! Oba to ba n'ile,Oba to ba l'oko ! Do you ?

Akoko is not Yoruba word,right ? It must be a fufude word then ! "Ile Akoko ni won ti n'gbedo " - I have known this even right from the infancy just like any Yoruba child ,yet one nincompoop from 'Ile Ibinu"(Benin) here is telling me that Akoko is not my word ! Who even cares if some Akoko people see themselves as Europeans ? The fact is that Yoruba don't care about such mundane stuffs.

As a people,Yoruba know who they are,their history and nobody is going to rewrite it for them ! In any as much as we know the history of Benin from the perspective of Oranmiyan,the founder of modern Benin kingdom and who brought Yoruba's Obaship system to that part of the world, we don't see it as any worthy subject of debate with anybody because it is what it is - fact ! This is why most Yoruba here don't respond to some of the lies you Bini people fraudulently termed history. We just laugh over them as childish tantrums that they are actually.The king of an Ijaw community (Gedegede or something; can't remember the spelling) in Edo state categorically stated recently that Oba of Benin is not superior to him and that's because they (Ijaw) are the original owners of even Benin and its environs. His claim was that the binis met them on the land and that you guys came from Yoruba land ! What that Ijaw king narrated couldn't be said to be wrong entirely. How comes it is only in Benin that the tittle of a king is Oba and same is not found among your immediate neighbours - other ethnic groups ? How come you Bini could not influence these other ethnic groups in edo state,for instance,to adopt Oba as the tittle of their kings or rulers ? This is because that word "Oba" is not originally yours ! Remember,Oranmiyan Omoluabi Odede,a Yoruba prince from Ile Ife,was the first king in Benin to use the tittle "Oba". What you had before Oranmiyan got to Benin was " Ogiso" as the tittle of your rulers. It is a fact.

Now tell me,all the Orisa in your palace - IFA,Ogun,Sango,Obatala,Yemoja,Osun,Osanyinetc,are they indigenous to Bini people ? They all belong to Yoruba and are indigenous Yoruba idols. Do you think it is by accident that today,Yoruba people are the most researched ethnic group in Africa ? Are you aware that the ancient Pharaohs of Egypt DNAs did not even match with the DNA of the present days Egyptians ? They found their match ONLY in the Yoruba people of Nigeria and Benin republic ! That is because the Pharaohs of old were not Arabs; they were black people ! This is an archeological fact and a recent discovery. You can google it.

The inscriptions and wordings on the Opa Oranmiyan (Oramiyan's staff) and those found on some ancient objects inside Osun Osogbo Groove and on its bare floors are the only semitic alphabets and words found in the whole of west Africa ! What does that mean ? It means we are originally from the middle East; descendants of Lamurudu (Nimroid) and this is why IFA says that we are from the East- middle East precisely ! Renown Linguists are quite shocked to discover recently that there exists lots of similarities between Yoruba language and the semitic language - the language of the ancients Jews.These are not fabrications but results of painstaking research works by known and reputable researchers and Archeologists. You can do your own findings too. We know that all these facts do not make us the ancient Hebrews because we know that we are a distinct people and we are very proud of that. We are the Yoruba - the ancient black people of great civilization !

If as a people (Yoruba) we know all these facts and we are not even bragging about it,do you think we care about what any Bini people think or may chose to believe ? We are not competing with you; in fact,you ain't a competition for us,I'm sorry ! We know who we are. We are Yoruba; African finest. It is not an accident that in all the countries where Yoruba people are found and indigenous to,they are always highly civilised, well educated ,influential and peace loving. Just check it out : Yoruba of Nigeria,Yoruba of Ghana (Ga and Ewe people),Yoruba of Sierra Leone (Krios or Creoles),Yoruba of Gambia ( Aku and Creole), Yoruba of Benin republic ,The Lukumis of Cuba,the Bahians of Brazil, the Egbas of Jamaica,the Yoruba Islanders of Senegal etc. Go and check our communities in all of these countries; they are top notched ! Have you ever asked yourself why South western part of Nigeria is the most urbanised and developed ? Civilization has always been parts of our lives right from our ancient Egyptian era.

Trust me,Yoruba people don't even care about whatever story you may be telling the world just to suit your narratives. We know who we are and nothing is going to change it.

Iree o !

There are few stuffs you wrote that are not actually correct.

The Ijaw doesn't have a king in gelegele. Gelegele is part of Edo south and Edo south has only one king, the Oba of Benin. All other traditional rulers are Dukes of different dukedoms.

The current Oba of Benin and his late father acknowledge Oranmiyan as a descendant of a Benin prince Oduduwa.

Even you admitted in your writeup that Oduduwa was a foreigner from the middle east to Ife. The Benin also agree that Oduduwa was also a foreigner that migrated to Ife from a city which is geographically east of Ife and the name of the city is Benin city. The difference between Yoruba and Benin accounts is that Yoruba believe Oduduwa migrated from Egypt/Saudi Arabia whilst Benin believe Oduduwa was a Benin prince.

Even if you are right that Oduduwa originally migrated into Nigeria from the middle east, that will make his descendants of middle east or Egyptian origin of which Yoruba will just be one of the tribes that have Oduduwa descendants. Besides Oduduwa met people already living in Ife.

Yet, some argue that Oduduwa and Oranmiyan are mythical figures that never existed.

Are you also aware of Igbo historical accounts that claims the Oba of Benin has Igbo.

The uniqueness of Benin is that most tribes in southern and middle belt Nigeria have different claims to the kingdom and Yoruba's claim is not unique, other tribes also have theirs. What Benin history and the traditional authority acknowledge is that Oduduwa was a Benin prince that founded Ife.

ijawcitizen:
The Ogiso dynasty wasn't heriditary. It was more like a traditional/customary democracy setting where the kingship rotated from town to town amongst the natives of the Benin Region who are the Ijaws, Binis & Urhobo.

Here is one more identifiable Ijaw Ogiso after the first two
" Ogiso Erebo (618– 632 CE), was a fisherman and canoe
carver, chosen from Okhorho quarters. (IKORO is an Ijaw community in Olodiama clan) He had a
repertoire of stories about sea animals such as
mermaids, sharks, crocodiles etc.

SOURCE: http://www.edofolks.com/html/osahon_ogiso_dynasty.htm

But today, the Oba of Benin (who is in fact a migrant) is describing the Ijaws in Edo state as riverine settlers from Bayelsa!

Benin early history is far more complex than it's just being presented. Ijaw and Urhobo are not just the only tribes that share similar words with Benin.

The question is, were these various tribes indigenous to Benin and migrated out during the various times of upheavals or they were people that migrated to Benin for greener pastures and later went back home during the times of internal conflicts.

What various tribes have done in the past was find ways to distort the history of Benin to their advantage including those that argue that Oranmiyan and Ife conquered Benin. In reality Oranmiyan and Ife was never documented in history as having any army, infact Oranmiyan and Ife didn't even enter Yoruba historical records until after 1826, anyone that disagree can provide evidence.

The Yoruba kingdom that was recorded in history to have had an army was the Oyo kingdom and Alaafin of Oyo was recorded in history as the leader of all Yorubas. In 1826 when the British first entered the hinterland of Yoruba, the same Alaafin told the British governor that the Oba of Benin was his friend to whom he relied on for military assistance.

Let's examine the Igbo angle of Benin history. The similarities between some Igbo names and historical figures, town in Benin history can't just be wished away, are these similarities in names coincidence? Did the Igbos migrated from Benin as told by the likes of Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe or did they came to Benin for greener pastures only to later return back home as others argued.

The similarities between the names in Onitsha and Benin.

Starting with the traditional title of the Obi of Onitsha, Agboghidi. Agboghidi was a well known personage in Benin history, he was the founder of Ugo town in Orhionwon local government area.

The Onitsha people must revered shrine is called Udo. Udo was a rival town to Benin in Edo south. Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe told us the Onitsha people left Benin during the reign of Oba Esigie. Now, it's recorded in Benin history that there was a war between Oba Esigie and Aruan n' Okemenzi of Udo which Esigie warned with the help of his mother queen Idia of the famous FESTAC mask. Oba Esigie and Aruan were both princes that were born on the same day, but Oba Esigie birth was reported to the Palace first, when Aruan grew up the mother told him how he was short changed by the mother of his junior brother queen Idia, when their father the Oba, died, the two princes fought themselves for the throne.

There is another well celebrated aspect of Benin history involving the wrestling match between Azagidi of Urhonigbe and Izu.

How many Benin people know that Iken from which the Benin crown prince Okoro takes his title Edaiken of Uselu was another strong historical figure and leader of Uselu town which is now a district of Benin city.

Across Anioma to Onitsha, the traditional courts are style like that of Benin and many traditional titles are similar to Benin traditional titles.

What about the Eze family of chief Ezomo of Benin.

What about the four market days Benin shares with Igbo. Also don't forget the new yam festival.

The question is, did these people took along with them these names as they left Benin, they must have taken some and what did migrants into Benin bring into Benin.

Anyone attempting to study the oral history of Benin must also take into account and study the oral history of the various tribes that claim one form of Benin connection or another.

There are various angles to Benin history, the eastern Akoko Yoruba angle, Lagos/Eko angle, the south south Ikwerre, Ogba angle, Igala Benue angle, etc. I have even heard of the Ghana angle.

Benin written history from 1400s is very well established but the period earlier than the 1400s that wasn't written should be examined with open minds. Benin kingdom wasn't just a Benin city affairs, so we must expand our research beyond Benin city.

Benin history shouldn't be reduced to Benin/Yoruba squabbles, or Benin/Ijaw/Itsekiri etc banter. Benin history is way bigger than that.

Ofunwa111:
Reno lied and you supported him, all because you are jealous of the Igbo race.

You can twist, lie, accuse , write long unmeaninful epistles, to decieve and convince your village people in Irrua, but not me. When you are done, make sure you answer the question; which people have Portuguese, Igbo and Bini embedded in their language ?

You know you lied by saying I supported Reno. Slave history is not what a reasonable person should gloat about. You and your fellow Igbos have been the ones naming Anioma and Ikwerre tribes you have issues with because of their stance of not being Igbo. Secondly why should I be jealous of Igbo or any other tribe, there are no reasons why the average Edo person should be jealous of any tribe, apart from having glorious historical past, we also have the entire world to go seek better opportunities that Nigeria have denied us due to bad governance. By our share numbers in the diaspora, there are no opportunities that are open to any other tribes that are not open to us.

Ofunwa111:
When you finish writing your gibberish and jargons, make sure you answer the question; which people have Portuguese, Igbo and Bini embedded in their language ?

The elders of Nri from Agueleri, the heartland of Igbo land, that claim the Oba of Benin is an Igbo man are in better position to answer your question Reno told us Benin had Igbo slaves and Igbo elders from Nri have now told us that the Oba of Benin that must have enslaved Igbos was Igbo himself, so your question must be directed to your Igbo elders.

As an Igbo penson yourself, I think you should be ashamed to want to continue to dwell on the allegations that there are Igbo descendants of slaves in Delta state. If you finally know the identity of these alleged slaves descendants, what will you do with the information. You are even happy that some Igbos were allegedly enslaved in past and you are desperate to know their identity, what a pity.

IDENNAA:
Igbos aren't really interested in Bini history because it doesn't interest us. We debate some western Igbo on their Bini ancestry claims and that's how you people get into our discussion, otherwise , we careless about what happens in your land. You are really a sub-tribe of Yoruba. That's who you share blood with. Can't you see Bini never crossed Anioma...you only fought communities in the periphery of Anioma. Igbo get strong head ooo

Are you sure Igbo aren't really interested in Benin history after presenting you with documentary videos of Igbo from Nri or Agueleri, the heartland of Igbo claiming the entire Benin history including the Oba himself. The real Igbos from Nri are falling over themselves to claim Benin history and someone from a little known village in the fringes of Igbo land is here telling the audience how Igbo is not interested in Benin history, what a pretentious fallacious statement

I would have expected you by now to travel to Nri and tell the elders there how wrong you think they are but instead you are here pretending to be speaking for the Igbos in a faceless forum.

All major tribes in southern Nigeria are fixated with Benin history, the envy oozes to high heavens. We have seen Yoruba done it and now witnessing Igbo doing it. You can't tell me you are speaking for Igbos after I have seen videos of Igbo elders from the heartland of Igbo excitingly showcasing their own versions of Benin/Igbo connection to the entire world to see.

You can't call Yoruba to this because we are very aware of Yoruba claims, it's time to explore the Igbo angle. We are now even ready to receive petitions from Hausas/Fulani for their own claim to the Oba of Benin all petitions will be fairly looked at and considered for their merits and demerits.

Igbo elders evidence submitted so far are as follows.

1. Oba Eweka was actually Oba Iweka (an Igbo name).
2. Edo and Benin are Igbo words that have meanings in Igbo language.
3. Oba Ozolua is a corruption of Ozor tittle holder.
4. Igodo from which Benin ancient name Igodomigodo was derived is an Igbo name with Igbo meaning.

Yoruba claims don't even have such evidence as above. None of the names of Oba of Benin bears similarities to Yoruba names and have no meanings in Yoruba language as the Igbos have just presented. Edo, Benin and Igodo have no meaning in Yoruba language the way the Igbos have just revealed to us it does in Igbo.

The Igbo version is even more compelling compared to the Yoruba claim with all the evidences submitted so far , the Benin are beginning to enjoy this.

Ofunwa111:
Shock me unto wetin na ? You should have asked if I even watched the video. All I am interested in, is for you to tell me the people who have Portuguese, Benin and Igbo in their language.

Nna biko leave that thing. You expect me to believe you didn't watch the video. Even if you didn't watch it, others did and it's now official that it's not just the Yoruba that are laying claim to the Oba of Benin, the Igbos also have their claim.

You are busy looking for the alleged slaves descendants in Delta state whilst your Igbo brothers have moved many steps ahead to the stage of even appropriating the entire Benin kingdom and the Oba to themselves. Guy, your people have left you behind, you need to catch up. leave the slave history for Reno and concentrate on the modern day historical narratives by your people. Nothing to be embarrassed about. The Yoruba have been doing exactly the same thing since 1930 and you guys have been clapping for them, hope they also support and clap for you for trying to steal their fairytale.

Etinosa1234:
Like ur itsekiri is any better...

Every tribe engaged in slavery .. pretend u don't know that

ThickSharon123 Shey u see this thing... Now imagine how a Benin man will see this and be happy with the poster...

A United South is going to be very hard

If the Benin play their cards very well, they can unite the south.

Etinosa1234:
I smell serious violence in this thread

Most of the Southern tribes come from the YEAI tree.. some believe as migration happened, the language changes .. but there are at least some words that mean the same across tribes such as
Oma which means in Igbo, Benin, Urhobo as good
Ibata which means shoe in Benin and Yoruba..

But some illiterates and idiots will tell u that because One tribe is bigger than the other, then it must have Fed the smaller tribe some of its own words

But on a more serious note, the South can never be United...

There must be one form of division somewhere.. either someone brings up what ur forefathers did in the past or what u are doing in the present or whether u will be more successful than them in the future

Even this culture section is another clear example.. every body wants to claim superiority over the other...

Small argument dem don insult ur tribe

Anybody insult my own, I insult am back...

Las Las everybody na hypocrite

Why will there be violence? Do you expect the Benin to start another endless debate with Igbos? Can you prevent other tribes from coming up with their own versions and claims? Does Benin have the numbers to keep refuting these claims?

E shock you Abi. It's not only Yoruba that are laying claim to the Oba of Benin. Igbo also have their own version of the claim. Igala have their own and be expecting Hausas/Fulani and others to come up with theirs in due course, even expect claim from across west Africa, why not, Benin shouldn't just be for the south to own and celebrate, it's now the pride of Africa for all to own and celebrate. It's a global brand.

To know the significance of Benin in Africa history, watch the numerous videos and documentary on European reaction when the Benin artifacts was exhibited in September of 1897 in London. Benin is the pride of the black man, through their artworks, they change the Europeans perception of black being savages that lack history and ability of logical reasoning. I must admit must modern day Benin people don't even know the significance of Benin in world history. Check out various online videos of the debate on the return of Benin artifacts.

It now makes the arguments more easier, next time Yoruba comes up with their Oduduwa version, simply show them the Igbo version rather than going on this endless argument with them.

In terms of numbers, Benin don't have enough people to keep refuting these claims against either the Yorubas or the Igbos, so strategy must change. I even think the Oba of Benin and his chiefs should find ways to begin to unite his people in the east, west and middle belt.

Since both the Yoruba, Igbo and Igala acknowledge him as theirs, he should start inviting them to the annual igue festival. Benin kingdom was never a Benin city affairs and it shouldn't be now that her people all over Nigeria and up to Ghana are acknowledging her as their own. I am sure you have heard about GBD (Great Benin descendants) and the work they are doing to identify and reconnect with those that claim Benin descent across Nigeria and west Africa. They were recently in Ghana, check out their videos online.

The Palace must find ways to accommodate these people. Benin should take cue from Rome, although Rome fell centuries ago, her influence is still very much felt till today. The Pope is not just the holiest man on earth but also the most respected. The religion that made the Pope the holiest man wasn't a Roman religion but a Jewish one.

Ofunwa111:
See this village Irrua boy. . They have told you and Reno to call the name and you are still looking for how to twist stuff ? Kponmo man !

E shock you Abi. I am sure you are now happy to find out that it's not only Yoruba that are laying claim to the only authentic Oba in Nigeria, the Oba of Benin. Igbo also have their own version of the claim. Igala have their own and we are expecting Hausas/Fulani and others to come up with theirs, why not, Benin shouldn't just be for the south to own and celebrate, it's now the pride of Africa for all to own and celebrate.

Don't pretend as if you are not happy to discover that Igbo have their own claim, you will no longer be fixated with the Yoruba claim.

ThickSharon123:
Now when you talk of the Roman empire, their remnants can still be found in most parts of Africa and in Europe, one example in Africa is "The Great Alexandria" seaport of North Africa and more.

In Britain we have many that can be mentioned, and the Britons are proud that Rome is part of their history, followed with France, and the rest.

Now, the Bini people claim they ruled and ruled large expanse of land. They have no common cultural attire with the Igbo, language none, festival none, and all...that's one.

Secondly, the Oba seemed like he was thirsty to have more subjects under him, and as a king his worthy for that. The east was rich with not only resources that could be used for the Obas expansive agenda for that time, but people that can be applied to the military, why did he forsake them? The east, very well seems untouched to your Oba, in which you claim Igbos was under his rule.

The Obas main interest was the west, but I guess he tried but was resisted by them westerners.

And for the Onitsha and Bini relationship that you said doctor Nnamdi talked about, if they were so close, is it that they didn't know that there were more people like the Anambra people, and the Oba could conquer...my dear, this is all logic.

Using placards and bronze all isn't proof of rulership my dear, it was written by men (and please I'm not refuting that,)

But what bewilders me is the level of pristinity of the east when it comes to Benin. And if they influenced Onitshas why don't they speak a corrupted form of Benin at least, if they were in a so-called peaceful and harmonious relationship. It all doesn't make sense.

There are various sub Igbo clans across the east that either claim Benin ancestry or claim the Oba of Benin himself as Igbo.

Benin is all over Igbo history. Like I said earlier, places in the east that didn't come under direct control of Benin was indirectly influenced by Benin migrants that migrated there.

Hundreds of years ago, places were not exactly the same as they are today, Benin interests would have also varied.

Unlike the Europeans that acknowledge their past history, most Nigeria would rather deny Benin rule and influence over their lands, they even go as far as to twist the historical narrative in their favour. Even Benin names in such places are deliberately misinterpreted in attempts to deny Benin influence in such places.

Below are few stories of Benin told by Igbos. Benin was all over southern and part of middle belt Nigeria.

Maybe you should take your reservations up with your fellow Igbos making these various claims about Benin below.

The Oguta kingdom was established in like manners to the Benin Kingdom of Nigeria. Many people in Oguta believe that the Oguta people migrated from the ancient Benin Kingdom. They argue that the administrative set up, titles and common names have similarities to those of Bini people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Eze-Igwe - Wikipedia

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bbc.com/igbo/afirika-48565792&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiPgLLynb7tAhXI2qQKHaWeBrQQFjAOegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3am-fbxDHnMAVrzuqkDP9h


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4xXMdK8HYQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytmPqtA65YY

Ofunwa111:
Just like the Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man ...

Are you not aware of the Igbo claim that the Oba of Benin is Igbo. It's not only Yoruba that lay claim to the Oba, Igala have made their claims and we are waiting for Hausas/Fulani and others claim. Below is a video of Igbo claim, enjoy it. next time reference the Igbo claim instead of the Yoruba claim because you Igbo are also claiming the Oba of Benin. If you were ignorant of this before now, you now know. You can now see how special Benin is in Nigeria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4xXMdK8HYQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytmPqtA65YY

ThickSharon123:
I've read about him. My question, goes to this. One man's details of origin shouldn't be for all. And as I've read and how enlightened I am, I observed that the Oba was in good heads with most strangers in the land in those period, the Portuguese and English alike. That gave him the advantage to sell his people, when the strangers had supplied them guns.

So, for Equinos case, it's his pedigree and he can stick with it.

My question is, if the Edo ruled all, at lease there needs to be some things in the lands indicating his past rulership. Like, roads named for him, a honourable festival, names that directly like to the Oba, and all that stuff.

Oba had also sold other tribes, Eluado's side shouldn't be the only deduction to the story, dear. Thank you.


And to add, Oba rarely expanded his kingdom in the east. I know the Oba desired to expand, was he afraid of the East that he rarely expanded, or the West. It's numbing as I even think of it.

Benin hardly wrote her history, infact it wasn't till the middle of the 20th century that a Benin person made the first attempt to write down Benin history. The best the Benin did in documenting her pre colonial history was in her artefacts.

The greatness, the influence of the Oba and the extent of the Benin empire were independently documented by Europeans who were actually eyewitnesses to what they wrote down since the 1400s.

For example Ida is in the middle belt of Nigeria, which is much further away from the east to Benin. In the 1500s the Europeans wrote about the Benin Ida war which the Benin worn against the Attah of Igala.

In 1602 a Dutchman wrote about how Lagos was already a military garrison with Benin soldiers that daily reports back to the Oba in Benin city.

It was documented that the Oba of Benin control a distance of 200 miles along the coast up to Dahomey. I am sure you have heard of the bight of Benin.

It was documented that the Oba of Benin had a standing army and could mobilise a military force of 100,000 soldiers in 24 hours.

It was documented that Europeans and Dutch mercenaries served in the Benin army. Benin was the first significant kingdom to acquire guys and canons, these with European mercenaries serving in Benin army greatly helped the Oba expand the Benin kingdom.

There was no force that was able to invade and defeat Benin since her written history began in the 1400s until 1897 when British destroyed the city.

Irrespective of what anyone may feel today, it doesn't change the fact that Benin history was independently written by Europeans eyewitnesses throughout the centuries beginning from the 1400s to 1800s.

Are you aware that Rome which is just a small part of Italy today once rule most part of Europe and part of North Africa? Infact Rome colonised Britain for 400 years. What national festival does Britain, Egypt and other part of Europe Rome once colonised have today to commemorate or celebrate Roman emperors or Rome. The difference between Africans and Europeans is Europeans acknowledges their historical past whilst Africa tries to downplay the achievements of their fellow Africans who is not of the same tribes as them.

Benin history is world history that wasn't written by Africans, so it's authenticity will always be acknowledged by serious historians because it was documented by eyewitnesses.

Have you read Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe autobiography about Benin/Onitsha relationship?

Some part of southern Nigeria that didn't directly feel the impact of the Oba of Benin rule were still greatly influenced by Benin people who migrated to those places. These Benin immigrants always become the ruling elites of those tribes, the reason you keep hearing various tribes across southern and middle belt Nigeria tracing their ancestral roots back to Benin.

Ofunwa111:
Just like the Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man ...

This is old story. Come up with something else.

RedboneSmith:
This Benin guy: "You should have first insisted that Reno mentioned the tribe..."

This same Benin guy a few comments: "It's a good thing Reno didn't mention the tribe..."



There's nothing I won't hear from you people.

PS: I think I have figured out the person behind this moniker. Shey you attended CIC and ESUT for Enugu? Igboland formed you, yet you're here talking smack about them every other day.

Do I need to spoon feed you guys, dot all the I and cross all the t for you guys to know that what I met was, it was a good thing Reno didn't mention the sub-Igbo tribe in Delta state? Have you not been following the thread and read how your Igbo brothers from the east is trying to twist Reno story to mean Ika and Ndokwas who deny being Igbo whilst leaving people like you who actually claim Igbo descendants leaving in Delta state.

If the eastern Igbos want to know the Igbo sub-tribe leaving in Delta state Reno was referring to, they should beam their searchlights towards people like you who claim Igbo descendants in Delta state, not Ikas and Ndokwas.

You are one of those that claim Igbo descendent leaving in Delta state, so it's up to you to either agree with Reno or disprove his historical narrative with a superior historical account of your people, others such as the Ikas and Ndokwas should be left out of this.

The Igbo left those that told them they are Delta Igbos and are pointing accusing fingers at those that deny being Igbos. How disingenuous.

Ofunwa111:
Bros, this thing nor hard, tell Reno or make you tell us who dem be. Cunning man die, cunning man bury am !

It's a good thing Reno didn't mention the tribe. Imagine what you guys would have done to such a tribe not minding the authenticity of the story. Leaving it simply as Igbo will make everyone keep guessing. To have narrowed it down to a particular tribe would have been disappointing and Reno knows it.

Even if I know such a tribe, I wouldn't say because Edo see everyone in Delta and by extension south south as brothers and sisters. Whatever happened in the past is now history and should be left at that. This sort of history will not help to unite the people. Also don't forget that there are Benin descendants in the east, Onitsha, Oguta, etc.

Ofunwa111:
I believe by now you should already know this twister and fake Bini boy, who expects everyone in Nigeria to come from Bini. He and Reno should mention the people who speak the language, scholars will go check them out and study them, if it is true, we can then know he is speaking facts.

You should have first insisted that Reno mentioned the tribe before you and your co travellers start claiming that Reno was referring to the Ikas and Ndokwas.