₦airaland Forum

Kay 17:
^^If that was a plan by your god, it failed badly!
Communication is made by similarity.

benodic:
@poster,
there is no what if in the matter.

you have already hit the nail on the head.

the world is the way it is because that is the way that God wills it.

the purpose is for us to learn how to love. it will be too easy for us to love those that are like us. those who share the  same views as us. so God mixed it up a bit and created different races, different religions and different cultures.

you as an individual soul have to strive to rise above these differences and love without bias or prejudices  then and only then can you get close to God.

The responsibility is on us to rise above hate even in our differences and embrace love. God has not failed in his plan, everything is in accordance to his master plan.


we must dig it out - why he made us, why we are here and for what purpose.

Kay 17:
^^If that was a plan by your god, it failed badly!
Communication is made by similarity.

How?

Jenwitemi:
Actually, we are all a part of the whole TRUTH. In that sense, we are all right. But the EGO that dwell in man will never accept that, at least not until the Ego's hold on our minds and soul has been thoroughly diminished.

And talking about winning souls for God, each person can start with themselves by working on their respective souls to connect to God. And no, God is not religion.

You are right, the issue of soul winning should not really be about converting others to ones religion but by helping others to re-connect back to God. What religion is doing to most people is like washing the outside of a vessel.

Purist:
Abi o.  I was expecting to read something new.  Real truth, lol. . . "realer" than kunleoshob's.

It's good though, let the message keep going round. Enough of deceit.

Jesus came that we may have life, not for us to be entangled again with yoke of bondage in the name of tithe.

Whoever the son hath set free, shall be free in deed.

Yes, CAPITAL yes.

This life is but a dream.  We slept in heaven and found ourselves here on earth, given birth to, growing up, doing so many things, when we finally died we would wake up from the dream, and there we would behold it was all a dream.

Reason why no one can say exactly why we are here and our supposed maker has not shown up to say hello guys I'm your maker here am I in the sky.

I know there is God, but he is not in this physical form, our existence here is temporal, we came from somewhere, we would return there.

This world is only from imagination/dreams of sons of God in spiritual eden. I can explain this more in details later.

He said when they overthrew the government of General Muhammadu Buhari in 1985, it was on the understanding that he, General Babangida and the late General Sani Abacha would govern the country in turn. Babangida and Abacha had their turns, leaving him as the only one left to have his turn as president of Nigeria. He was said to have expressed dismay that each time he sought to actualise his dream of becoming president, General Babangida, who had ruled the country for eight years, would also throw his hat into the ring.

This is very serious!!!

Sharing formula, please God have mercy on this our 9geria for the sake of unborn children

Dolemite:
If you're looking for miracles and cheap tricks just watch a Chris Angel video on youtube, this guy has walked on water, floated on air and put his arm through a solid object, check him out. If he comes up with a religion members won't be hard to find.

I'm sure you know they are just tricks, so if Jesus were to be around right now with all the miracles, it will be easy to know with time if they are real or tricks

donyfrank:
Earth would have been in extinction b4 now. Earlier d better! Jesus carry go.

How

babaearly:
somehow i thought you smoked wee.d. but it kinda make sense though

Holy Mary!!! wee.d ke

I know why I'm asking that question really, thanks though

naijacutee:
I think what is amazing is that fact that God chose 2,000 years ago to send Jesus into the world, and the message of Christianity was able to spread into areas of the world where internet and technology have not even been able to advance into!!

That's very wonderful, but it surprises one when you see two powerful men of God accusing each other of preaching heresy and both of them have great followers, if Jesus had come during digital age, some of his teachings would have been readily available on audio and video CDs and Internet for free and for all.

[quote author=bashy_demy link=topic=512665.msg6745274#msg6745274 date=1284381527]awww you want Jesus to turn to an internet fraudster?[/quote]far from it

The book of John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life”

I believe God’s love for the entire world is for ALL to be saved, recently I was wondering why God chose to send his only begotten son to the entire world at a time when there was no Information technology like in this century.

My question is why did God choose 2,000 years ago and not NOW when there is CNN, Internet and other means by which the message can reach out (with proofs like Jesus photograph, miracles, videos etc for unbelievers to see)



_{I love Christ, not sure about religion}

justcool:
Everything in creation radiates, the spirit germs radiates too, and at a certain stage in the state of the spirit germs their radiation changes. This change in radiation can be likened to a petition to the creator to be allowed to develop. The spirit germs carry the ability to develop within them, just as a mango seed carries the ability to grow into a mango tree. And I have already explained in my previous post that in creation every ability is constantly caressed into activity and cannot remain inactive.

The activity of the created primordial beings in Primordial spiritual planes radiate downwards towards the spiritual planes, influencing and supporting the spiritual into activity. It is these radiations that influences the unconscious spirit germs, caressing them to reach to the stage where they are ripe to be planted. At this stage, their colour of their radiation changes and the Love of God notices this change.


I will summerize:
The spirit germs came into existence in Paradise as unconscious spirit germs. The powerful activity of the primordial beings above has an effect on all that is spiritual, [/b]even the unconscious spirit germs. [b]This effect causes the germs to reach a point in their maturity where they develop an urge towards self consciousness. The love of God notices this change in the spirit germs and affords them the opportunity to do so by allowing them to be ejected from paradise.

Thanks so much for your time in explaining this further. However, kindly clarify the following issues:-

1. If everything in creation radiates including the spirit germs, could it have been possible for any of the creations to decide not to radiate

2. If change in radiation is likened to petition to develop further, can we likened no change in radiation to no-petition

3. If it was the powerful activities and radiations of the primordial beings above that caused the spirit germs to change to a point of maturity where they can make petition for self consciousness, its contradictory to say that they were already making any form of petition before reaching their point of maturity.

The creator therefore can be said to be responsible, since all the radiations emanated from him, without those radiations the unconcious spirit germs would not develop to a stage where they can make any form of petition.

Thanks

mantraa:
From Jenwitemi
This is very good. I would expand that and say that maybe the universe is god. It is infinite, created itself, all around us and created us. We are in it and of it and just now beginning to start to understand it, just as we are starting to understand ourselves.

I was asking m_nwankwo if (from his perception) God is:-

1. A person with legs, hands, eyes, head, etc and siting on the throne somewhere

2. An energy source with no specific shape/size, or can take any shape he likes

3. Spiritual force, light or life living inside of us and has no specific shape size or place of abode

4. May be he's actually the universe like you said.

5. Where is his abode, is he ouside of this physical universe, or in a parallel invisible universe.

These questions and many more are begging for answers though we may not know which is the correct answer for now, but at least we can keep asking ourselves, in as much as he has never appeared to anyone, some claimed to have died and came back to life saying they saw Jesus, heaven, hell etc but no one has ever said they saw God. When Thomas asked Jesus to show them the father, he only said if they have seen him they have seen the father which mean God is in us. God in us, hope of glory

justcool:
The above is really very deep and I completely agree with it. When it comes to earthly manifestations one has to be careful before labeling what the individual making the manifestation is. What is important and what is decisive in setting into motion the laws of creation is the radiations of the spirit and not necessarily the physical manifestation of the ability which resides in the spirit.

I will give an example:
A man who has nourished(in his spirit) the desire to write stories; this desire radiates out of his spirit and attracts stories, but his physical body cannot bring these stories into the physical realm in the form of a book, because perhaps this man does not know how to read and write. Before the laws of creation such a man is a writer, even though he has never, physically written a book.

This man may have contributed, thorough his volition, to the writing of Chinua Achebe’s book without knowing it.

Another example:
An man is filled with the desire to murder, but out of fear of going to jail, he never committed murder physically. Before the laws of creation this man is a murderer, even though the earthly legal systems would not call him a murderer.

Likewise a man may be filled with the volition to make money, this volition radiates from his spirit. He decides that the best way to make money is by becoming a pastor. Filled with this volition he goes to school and learns how to preach and becomes a pastor. Men on earth would call him a pastor, but before the laws of creation, such a man is not a pastor. Before the laws of creation he remains a man lusting after money. As long as his desire to preach did not emanate from his spirit, as long as this desire is merely propelled by the spiritual volition to make money, this man remain a man lusting for money and not a pastor as far as the laws of creation are concerned.

Thus it is not the outward manifestation that determines what a man is, but rather that which radiates from his spirit.

One thing about creation is that that abilities, desires, and volitions never remain inactive. Every desire, ability or volition that emanates from the spirit takes on form and presses upon condensation. Even if the person who produced it did not condense it personally, it can press upon another person of the same nature and gets condescend through that parson.

Every ability that resides in your spirit is constantly being coarse into activity. If it ever becomes inactive in you, you will lose this ability; it will be pulled away from you by one who makes use of it. To him who has little, even the little he has will be taken away from him and be given to him who has more.

No volition can remain inactive, it is constantly evolving, growing, attracting others and being attracted to others; it is constantly affecting others and the person who produced it. It may cause another person to anchor it in the physical, and not necessarily the person who produced it.

The same is applicable to God, only in a higher form. God’s volition can never become inactive. It takes on form and is constantly working. The creative ability of God took on form and is constantly working -- eternally creating and renewing creation. As long as this ability resides in God, God is a creator. Thus what makes God a creator is not what He created but the ability to create which lies eternally in God.

God can exist without creation(From primordial spiritual realm to the coarsest gross material realm or heaven and earth) But God cannot exist without His creative ability; as much as He cannot exist without His love; because these are intricate parts of His being. Even the radiations of God carry these qualities(abilities); and these qualities(abilities) in the radiation of God takes on form and formed the realm of Divine substantiality. I.e. the Primordial Queen is the conformation of the Love of God in the radiations of God; while Jesus is the conformation of the love of God that is in God Himself(within God).

Thus God did not need to create creation(Heaven and earth) to become a creator; He was, He is and He will eternally be the Creator, because the ability to create is eternally living within Him as an intricate part of Him.

Likewise God did not need to create creation(heaven and earth) to become love; He was, He is and He will eternally remain the LOVE, because the Living LOVE(Jesus) is eternally living within Him as an intricate part of Him.


This is my perception though.

Thanks for that exposition but can you explain more on the need aspect of creation, are you 100% in support of m_nwankwo that even though "the drive or urge for existencce is hardwired in the spirit seed" by the creator, it was still the created longing for existence from their state of inexistence. if you agree with him, can you add more inputs.

Please don't hesistate to go into details on the primordial spiritual realm to the coarsest gross material realm or heaven and earth if you can, seems you and m_nwakwo are of thesame school of thought. Thanks

@m_nwankwo, thanks for the additional information. I will like to clarify the following.

1. From your believe, is God a spirit person and having eyes, legs, hands, etc or an enegy source like sun or what? (I personally obseved that most people that claimed to have died and came back to life or NDE's no one has ever seen God, some may claim to have see heaven or met Jesus but not God, so is God a person or energy source)

2. Like you rightly said that the drive or urge for existencce is hardwired in the spirit seed, it means that God did the wiring, if he had not done that we would not have had any urge to exist and if we did not exist we would not have known or missed anything at all

The step by step process of how the spirt germ sinks into the world of matter, how it is cloaked in the various planes and how finally it recieves a physical cloak or body in the womb of a woman can be explained to the minutest detail but that may not be necessary now and probably will cause confusion.

I'm interested in that process if you can share more.

3. By the way, are you a xtain, muslim, or what?

Thanks

Jenwitemi:
Unformed radiations of God? I have a serious problem with this theory, sir. Can you shed more light to these unformed radiations. Were they part of God, or were they separate entities? Were they in existence or were they not?

Personally, i do not buy this "unformed radiations" concept because it would mean that before creation of individual humans, they were already in existence as individual "radiations" of God (whatever that means) that can individually and independently desire for existence. I do not buy that at all.

In my view, the only life form that can desire for existence is the only thing in existence and that is the creative life force itself, the creator. It's desire for bring one form of existence or the other to manifest is the only driving factor that brings everything into existence.
If God does not need it's creations, why create them in the first place? And i won't accept the "unformed radiations" hypothesis as an argument? I am sorry, but that sounds rather dubious to me.

I agree with you, how can the uncreated be [b]longing [/b]to exist from an unconcious state.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=463682.msg6285788#msg6285788 date=1277550249]Thanks Sarmy. If an actor has the ability to act, then he is an actor whether or not he produces a work of art.  The main point is that such a one is capable of acting and he will produce a work of art if he wants and willnot if he does not want. Thus whether or not he produces a work of art depends on if he wills so. Now coming to God, it lies in his omnipotence to decide to create or not to create. In the radiations of God lies all that is necessary for creations to spring forth. But these radiations of God cannot take on form and become creations except God wills so. Husband and wife is a relationship and not an ability. Creation is a very big word. Awareness that God created us is not the same as God created us. Thus, until we came into existence, we are just an unformed radiation of God but it takes an act of will of God to give conformation to these unformed radiations, hence our coming into being. Besides there are several other creations of God that came into existence before us. Thus even at the time we did not exist, other higher beings existed and these higher beings were created by God. God does not need his creations but his creations is absolutely dependent on God. It is the uncounscious longing for existence in these radiations of God that GOD answered to by bringing all creations into existence. It is the incomprehensible living love that is in God that permitted the miracle of creation. Stay blessed.[/quote]Please explain, how can the uncouncious be longing for existence, where was a man before creation, are you saying we were all longing to exist here on earth, before birth as well. How?

Deep Sight:
Please do not attempt tpo hide behind the perceptiveness of Sarmy. Fact is that NOWHERE has Sarmy stated that God would not exist without created beings. NOWHERE. Similarly NOWHERE has Sarmy stated that the created create the creator. NOWHERE. Sarmy makes a careful and apt distinction - he understands that the title "creator" and the title "husband' - are titles that issue from an act of creating or an act of marriage. Such acts would not be possible if the Deity did not already exist to do the act, or the man already exist to enter into the marraige.

Hi Deep Sight, please take it easy on Jenwitemi, these things are difficult to explain, personally I'm trying my best not to offend one's faith.

Yes, the one who created existed before the creating just like a man first make a move in marrying a woman but the act of the marriage makes him the husband if not he will remain a bachelor. I think this is what Jenwitemi meant (that we made each other, this does not mean we created God per se but the singular act of making us made God as well)

Fhemmmy:
He could have created anything else to serve the purpose of us being in existence, So yes, we need Him

Remember He created us for His pleasure, so who needed the pleasure or enjoyment or delight.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=463682.msg6280976#msg6280976 date=1277472038]Hi Deepsight and Sarmy. My view is that the above statements are not entirely correct. God is the creator, not because he created creations but because the living ability to create is in God. Whether or not, this ability to create is expressed (creations) or unexpressed (no creations) have no bearing to the ability to create. The ability to create is not the same thing with the expression of the creative ability that is in God. Thus God is the creator whether or not he expresses his creative ability. Since the creative ability is in God, it is also irrelevant whether his creatures percieves his existence or not. A crude analogy may suffice. Daylight did not exist because the eyes and the visual cortex can percieve it rather it exists because of the sun and its effect on the blue planet. Thus if one suddenly regains his sight and sees daylight for the first time, it does not mean that there was no daylight all the time that he is blind. Similarly if one is to go blind and cannot percieve daylight, then daylight did not cease on the day he has gone blind. This claim that all are God and God is  all is wrong in my view. People are confusing the sun and its rays. I challenge anybody who says he is a God to give me a step by step insight/DESCRIPTION on the origin and evolution of our physical universe, not to mention, the spirtitual and the divine worlds. Stay blessed.[/quote][quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=463682.msg6281145#msg6281145 date=1277473274]Hi Deepsight. Yes, what does the painting is the ability and not the expression of the ability. Thus one who has the abilty to paint or the ability to produce engineering works is an artist or an engineer. But even this remains a very crude analogy for in these earthly examples, the abilty was acquired or developed, presuppossing that at some time the one who is an artist today is not one several years ago. With respect to God, the ability has no beginning and no end for it is living in God. Stay blessed.[/quote]Hi m_nwankwo, thanks for the submission. However, God's ability to create will not have allowed him to be without creating so He had to create and the reason he created us.

Would you call a man an Actor if he cannot act when he has every opportunity to act?

A man who is not married will not be recognised as a husband but a bachelor no matter the ability in him, he needs to marry first

In this case, we are like the wife and He's like the busband, He married us by creating us and the name "God that created us" came into being

Deep Sight:
Dear Sarmy, I do not know whether you and Mr. Jenwitemi are on the same page.

If i do not marry a woman, i am not a husband.

That does not mean that if i do not marry a woman then i do not exist.

Two different things. I sense you recognise this simple distinction, but Mr. Jenwitemi simply doesn't get it.

I had tried to explain it earlier -

I do get your point, I think what he's trying to explain is that for example, if a man is yet to marry a woman, though he's a man but he's yet to assume the title of a husband, so the man marries the woman and the marriage makes him a husband.

Likewise, a creator without a creation can exist as a different [b]personality [/b]but not as a creator, just like a man who is yet to get a woman can not be reffered to as a husband, that's why Jenwitemi said both the creator and the creation created each other like man and woman both made themselves husband and wife.

This is what I think he meant.

Not that God does not exist without His creation but that He can not be referred to as such without His concious creation

Jenwitemi:
Exactly! Since we live on this plane of existence, here is where it counts, to us. .

Seems like a relationaship thing, creator and his creations just thesame way a husband can not be a husband until there is a wife to call him one even though he has the ability.

Like you said this is where it counts, over there is could be a different game entirely

Jenwitemi:
What is so brilliant about that? I ask whether God can be proven to exist without us sentient beings there to help substantiate God's own existence. Without us sentients, God can neither be known, nor proven to exist, simply because there will be nobody to either know, or prove it's existence. Full stop.

It seems people will find it difficult to comprehend this idea of a creator who even though has created other creations but will not be a creator until aknowledge, that may be difficult to understand

I think if you are talking from the perspective of us in the physical plane, if we all believe there is no God then there will be no God to us even though He exist in another dimention
I think thats the gist.

Deep Sight:
Jenwitemi's illogical fantasies again?

Maybe we can resolve it this way for you: if God did not create anything: then God would not be a creator. In order words he would not be referred to as a creator. Indeed there would be nothing and nobody to refer to him as such. Thus the act of creating is what makes him a creator.

This is ALTOGETHER different from HIS EXISTENCE - THAT IS NOT contingent on whether he creates anything or not.

Hi Deep Sight, do you think He created us because He needed us and we needed not to have been created but he chose to and should solely responsible for all things or we both exists together as one and therefore co-responsible

Jenwitemi:
My own answers to the questions;
1)If God had not made us, we would not have existed to be driving ourselves nuts with all these unproven mythological crap that go with religions, and not be beaten ourselves in the head with books arguing back and forth on whose idea of God is right or wrong.

2)No, man can't miss anything when man does not exist.

3)If we had not been created, there would have been no "someone" talking about what was missed. There would have been nobody to have died in wars, no famine to experience, nor would there have been enemies to have been killed by. There would have been nothing.

4)I am quite with you on that one.

5)You just spoke my language, right there.


My input is very clear on this one. We were created by the creator because the creator God needed to create us. Without God, there is no us, and without us there is no God to talk about.  The creator and the created are one inseparable unit in an eternal dance of creation. T[b]hey both create each other[/b], thus they need each other for existence.

If the creator actually needed to create us and He made us, therefore we could not have created him as he would have been existing before creating us, so it's either He created us or we both exist together as one from the start.

But to say that both the creator and the created are inseparable, can you expand this a little more, that seems to be the main problem regarding our existence here on earth, could this mean that "I and my father are one" is applicable to all men as in our relationship with God.

Lack of understanding of our real identify seems to be the root cause of all problems,

How true this is that God does not need us but we need, I have the following questions if anyone can help out:-

1. If God has not made us, what would have happened to us?

2. A man not created; can he be missing something he’s not aware of?

3. If we were not created, someone would say we would have missed all the beautiful things of this world, but what about those that died in war, famine, or killed by enemies etc. What kind of enjoyment or pleasure did they derived by coming into this world

4. If we were created out of love, then it should not matter what we do, because we did not asked to be created in the first place

5. Every product is as a result of a need or a purpose and to benefit the maker, if God made us, we are his product and should accept full responsibility for our existence unless we both exist together as one and only God in different manifestations so we both share the responsibility

Please I need your inputs

What Would You Say To Jesus? What Would I Say To Jesus?

"Recently, a friend of mine overheard a Christian trying to win a convert by asking a
man, "What would you say to Jesus to get you into Heaven?"

Often, this question is posed to people who are non-Christians in an effort to frighten
them into believing in Jesus. Christians who use fear think they are doing people a
service (after all, they are saving souls, aren't they?), but fail to realize the damage
they bring to others through use of fear, condemnation and guilt.

Sometimes, the question might be phrased like this: "What will you do if you have not
accepted Jesus as your savior and die in your sins, burning in Hell?" Such a question is
often coupled along with this quote from the Bible (some Christians believe Jesus will
say this to those who do not trust in him for salvation), "I never knew you. Depart
from me, you that work iniquity!"

As I mentioned, these questions are charged with fear for one purpose: to frighten
people into believing things that are false. However, since such questions are raised, I
will attempt to provide some of what I might offer to a vengeful deity in response:

1) If you are god, all-knowing and all-powerful, then why wouldn't you have made your
plan of salvation crystal clear to everyone, both past and present? Your message has
been mis-interpreted so many ways, how can we know what your plan is? If I follow
the history of Christianity closely, your plan of salvation seems to have changed over
two-thousand years, being different dependent upon the generation and the
denomination which one is privy to. What about those who never had a chance to
hear about "your plan?"

2) If you are perfect, why couldn't you personally craft a perfect, unchanging letter or
book to humanity that could not be corrupted or changed by the hands of mankind?
Better yet, how come an all-powerful god is unable to speak to each individual
personally, one-on-one? God is said to be "omnipresent," so such a task would
certainly not be insurmountable.

3) If you are perfect, how could you create imperfect people?

4) If you are truly a loving and forgiving god, how could you punish people (whom you
created) for infinity for making only finite errors in judgment - temporary mistakes?

5) If you are the Almighty, how come you are incapable of saving everyone? Jesus is
said to have stated, "The things that are impossible with men are possible with God."

6) If you are all-knowing and loving, why would you create "bad" people who you
foreknew would ultimately suffer for all of eternity? That doesn't sound very loving.
And if people are bad, how did "bad" originate from a god who is only "good?"

7) Do two wrongs make a right? In other words, if people do bad things, why would
you do bad things to them in return, such as punish them in Hell?

How could any of us find peace in Heaven, if there were others, whom we love,
suffering eternal punishment in Hell? Nope, Heaven must surely be full of tears if a
place called "Hell" exists.

These are just some of the things I would say to a god who is vengeful (if there were
such a god). I am not disputing the existence of a higher power. But to me, a divine
being that falls short of love could not be very divine at all. Love is patient, kind, does
not envy, - Louis Charles (Jesus Religion)